the gaza strip for 50 day residents of the coming to the deaf and devastation seems with the eyes of palestinian camera mind colleen, hama, who films and strikes the 2 thousands of life. including his own garza, the last picture on, on to 0. a waste land of rumble. the un says clearing the debris from these rounds were on guys, will be a huge challenge that to take 14 years unexploded. i'm a nation would also make this a dangerous task. so what will this mean for the millions of policy and so hope to return to that health. this is inside the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm for the bad people on precedent did levels of destruction. that's how the un describes the state of gaza. since these rouse will began in october. no buildings have been spread from these really strikes home schools, mosques, hospitals damaged or destroyed, the wens. my action agency says that after more than 6 months of devastating war, $37000000.00 tons of debris knowledge of a strip clearing a to will take more than a decade and will likely be slowed down by the unexpected, bombs and munitions. coward, swamp garza for palestinians living among the rubble in the densely populated territory that makes her an even more dangerous environment. and once the war is over, will it be safe for people to return and rebuild that homes. were put back to our guest shortly. but for us, this report from image and came back in 6 months, israel's war and goes a has killed more than 30 full size and people enclosed unprecedented destruction.

nearly 300000 homes have been flattened. heritage sites are in ruins, or universities have been destroyed or damaged. and hospitals and government buildings have been which is the rubble along with the devastation to people's lives. there's enormous amounts of deputy, which includes unexploded munitions and will require a huge amount of clean up. we estimate for to $37000000.00 tons of of debris which is approximately $300.00 t less of the re, per square meter. the u. n says it needs 10 percent of munition that is foot fails to function. considering the sheer level of bombardment is red his rain dine on garza, they may be thousands of on exploded booms in the rubble making what long, dangerous. we're talking about 14 years of work with 100 trucks, so that's based on that figure. 14 years to remove with approximately 750000 work days of person work days to remove the debris. the cost of removal light can be in

the 10s of millions of dollars. according to the mines advisory group clearing urban areas is hold at the rubric areas. and some of the weapons used like aircraft drop booms and precision guided missiles can be difficult to remove. during the clean up goals that remain a danger zone, nearly 2000000 people are internally displaced in goal so desperate to return to their homes. but the sooner we struggle is the lot going from one place to another . this is the 3rd time we are relocating for them enough to hon. eunice and no to date anybody to have them. there is no safety anywhere. we are civilians and have not done anything wrong. we are tired. find a solution. but rebuilding homes i'm receiving daily life would likely be delayed by the many risks facing palestinians goals that has been here before, but not on the scale. and oft, everywhere,

sweeping for munitions has been necessary. but this time, it may lead great swayed cit, the smooth, densely populated strip, uninhabitable long off to the will result of the image and came back out to 0 for inside story less now bringing our guests for today's show in geneva, we have jonathan guthrie, director of operations at the know we to and people said in amman, federico dessie millie's director at the n g o, humanity and inclusion, and in ramallah in the occupied westbank, russia, holly, the director general of the palestine economic policy research institute. gentleman, a warm welcome to your thank you for joining us on inside story for the rico and i'm on let me start with you because you were in guys i just last month in march, prior to october 7th. how many unexpected munitions would you expect to find in gaza? and how much has

a danger posed by these weapons increased since the start of the war? october 7th? it seems well before due to some of the number of so many issues that can be no seen then of course, there be federal laws and all taxes in got before before these one. but it was one of the 700, as well as the 2014 and that caused the effects of destruction still use to manage the number one is placed on us. so we present the end of this phone call . we probably between 5 and the higher than what you can see in 2014 and they asked him off. yeah. would it be possible he think, to know the full extent of the con termination caused by the current conflict? it's the people to estimates. i mean, we're working on a where did you get sanctioned that there, there's these signs between 50200000. a bomb dropped on on

gas on shelves, on gas owed about $600.00. and also the number is really by today, unfortunately, until as this fire will be placed and between 9 percent and 14 percent of the people, i assume names all of these small so didn't go off. so that you were talking about several times, but actually up to $10000.00 or can be more um, honest blow to balls and shows some more around. so got it. okay. briefly for that for the recall before i bring in jonathan, you were in guys. uh, last month of that, as i mentioned, what, what did you witness? why don't you with a, what was the situation because of course we describe it. we see the pictures on television, on a daily basis. but how did you, did you imagine that it would be as bad as we see it on our screens? a, a star situation. i've seen an engineer saw a few many times a year. and there are 2 kinds of interesting you guys are the slats and we're like,

most of these have been damaged or just trying to use performance on the drop. oh, i know so lying speeds and empty to rains. and then you have those areas of being targeted, is it less than passing where. busy most of the issues now regrouping or rough. uh, and then the coolest off or off. i mean, you send me to the area where there are a 100000 people crowned into the types of sacramento camps on the beach and benches. course the intended to show it to us as soon as he may be able to talk to damage buying this product because those prices are happening everywhere, even those areas where the pollution us. but indeed, the strikes are happening even in areas which these really said, said we're, we're safe for the people. jonathan, let me bring you into the conversation. you've worked extensively in syria and iraq and know you know that these weapons, these, unexploded munitions are

a huge concern of course for civilian population. but for a place like guys out with one of the highest concentration of civilians living in an area at a densely populated area. just how dangerous is it? what, what's the impact of these, unexploded munitions on people who live in? gosh, yeah, thank you very much for having me today. um. yeah, yeah, i think you, you hit the head when you were talking about the dogs and because of the shit density of the bombing and in such a small area. and that we're having goals. i'm was saying, you know, up to 50000 explosive ordinance, especially large and problems being dropped. and 90 percent of the mediations to be used in gaza has a logic problems 1000 pound or 2000 pound across the phones. and, and this can cause a, but a significant, straight to the, to the local community. um, you know,

taking some of the lessons learned about the same from the, from, from, from iraq and syria. conflicts is that, you know, we, we really need to have a kind of a 2 pronged approach to, to the response. there's a response that is required to support the rubble removal, debris, removal and reconstruction. but there's also the response to supporting a lot of civilians and, and we really need to be able to educate the local sick again, civilians and communities, especially eyes out of caps and provide them with the education and on the risks that they use munitions pods. because the, as i read your kate, how you educate jonathan, those civilians when they are experiencing war, when they're in the middle of a war. i mean, we've seen people even during this caustic trying to return to their homes. because you know, they want to find food and so on, people being warned correctly as the boys on going on about the dangerous they face . yes, i how actually an mpi is, uh, is quite heavily involved in this providing

a education by through the camps, but also the, the how to camp population and, and teaching them what explosive ordinance look like. and how to respond when, when we find them, i think the situation that we have in the month it is the reason i kind of coordinated response mechanism to that, to, to respond when the local population does find these munitions. and that probably won't come into effect until uh until the end of the conflict. okay, and i'll come back to in a minute, federico, to ask you about what you think the response should be. roger highlight in ramallah, let me bring you into the conversation. now we see buildings and civilian infrastructure completely destroyed in guys, a systems of water and sanitation, housing, schools, hospitals, and so on. do you think guys that will still be habitable when this, when? well, from the 1st days of the war, our own research was more or less all grouped under the understanding that this was

a was to make goes up on an happened and as an economic kind of monitoring the economic and social impacts. ringback everything has just confirm that in different a different stages from the the, on the side that we've seen a to what is it now 2 thirds of the residential stock of the north, i believe, to the, you know, what, the nice thing of, of food and starvation and if you did decide scholastic aside, we cannot, you know, keep up really. and so that's the 1st point. certainly we now have a much and i think that i want to just, you know, picking up from your previous speakers. you know, i, we started looking at 2014 as a comparative and assessing economic impact and assessing destruction. but we since concluded and started thinking in terms of 1945 is that the bark, this is

a total destruction. this is total devastation the world bank report on the different sectors, housing, health, education, cultural heritage, the billions of they have suffered and the billions in some cases or have you know, half a 1000000 half a 1000000 dollars, the health official, the facilities alone. and that's like 70 percent of health facility, so that sort of scale is on, on heard of. and i just want to also say that this question of rubble, the mining extremely important in and i'm thinking about these details is something that we need to start doing more of because, you know, in fact, the unexploded ordnance from the last 4 is what was a major part of how much is arson? so i'm sure that these really going to need to, you know, and this is the problem. you know, we don't wanna get into a situation where we create mechanisms which prolongs early occupation. so the fact that there's an international concern about the mining and quickly getting this ordinance out of the way so that the rubble clearance can begin. that's in itself.

questions of month. so time and scale of rubble removal is a huge, huge subject. yeah. and so then, um federico, how, how does a clear and even begin when the war is still going on? when you look at the destruction of the heavy infrastructure, there's been, is it possible to know 1st of all, the types of munitions that have been used and what is going, what is going to take to clear them what the response should look like? the usual, whatever cheese or see on the problem is uh on the air all was very large and then get you into 4. so 9 kito bombs. and then there are some weeks off the top shows more drones and then some surfers be size. most of the house i'm going to can reduction the army. um, what, what do you,

what would you take to clear it won't even make the soup see if i got the most of these as always fire. because they all the way in to operate safely and reach all of the streams, especially those that would be more highly vault where people are flat and we'd like to go back as soon as possible. a 2nd we need to access. we need to optimizations from the easily i'll talk to you some from any other concerns that you can bring it inside equipment and to door. not all the off. i didn't find the kind of what was used and marketing to us, which is something that what to use. those are going to take, which i really do need, but also to get you to also be able to diffuse these items. so they told me that and i'm working on getting her all over the choir. a specialized med are the kind of yours or this can be yours as

a very special ed. it'd be fine. it would be excellent. it cannot be hard. also, you're not to, we're, we just are indeed, and that sci fi is needed and even when there is a ceasefire, when the war stop, the issue of access is key, isn't it? jonathan? as for the recall, mentioned there accessing these areas and also getting the equipment in jonathan, what do you think the process should be when it comes to you know, uh, clearing uh these uh, i'm an ocean and these weapons from the gaza strip and who should be involved uh yeah, i think it should be, uh, a coordinated and uh, collaborative top f a where, uh it's, it's a u and led mission. it should be un lend coordinated mission. but using the resources that, that civil society can, can, can bring into positive saying, uh, with the same responses where i was saying construction, racing ahead of mine action we, we really need to bring the mon action community and experts into the planning the

assessment sizes. so the needs to be experts that are attached to assessment missions when going in and looking towards how we're going to plan. the reconstruction and the debris removal and bringing in nice expertise of the earliest possible states will prevent uh, you know, delays in, in the future. so, i mean, i think we, we really need to have that in place. we really need to have a strong information management system in place. again, most likely to be un let, so that we can really map out the contamination map out exactly what top for them. that's what funding and what responses is appropriate. um, but i would like to just echo what the previous, what spaces spike about an access is really an issue at the moment. and getting to access equipment is, is essential because there's not much that the monitoring community can do. if they don't have the appropriate equipment to be able to rend decides to these munitions . yeah. access it is an issue in ended because, i mean we've,

we've seen that even aid hasn't been able to get to, to, to get through to the gaza strip. and especially in the northern areas of the gaza strip, just on, on the humanitarian impacts. jonathan, let me ask you a little bit more because we haven't touched on that. the types of injuries that people are also standing as a result of these weapons that are being use, what types solve it and how it is difficult. is it going to treat them not just now, but in the long term? what impact is it going to have on, on the civilian population of cost? and now it's going to have a massive impact on the civilian civilian community within within garza, i mean, we can talk about the, you know, the physical impact but, but molten sony is probably the mental health and sort of logical support. the impact is going to have on and has already high on the paperless, gaza. i mean, really, really, really needs to be, to be addressing this. and we really need to be thinking about how to support now. because and, you know, people that are suffering from this kind of mental health and trauma,

a more likely to take risk. we'll see, right, that levels of risk, main type when people do return. and uh, and then that's going to actually cause more and more physical. you know, injuries in the future as pick a different time. so i think that really needs to be address now. and uh and, and then, you know, we kind of can see very, very typical uh, thoughts as explosive injuries, which can be at, you know, obviously side, so that lots of gleams in general, burns, etc. right? a rush out, let me come back to you and hopefully get your economic expertise on all this, even with the guy with the war sale going on. and guys, some people are already talking and imagining reconstruction. rebuilding guys are, there's already talk about all of that. how much is it going to take? how complicated, and how expensive will it be to clear guys and how much global funding is there at the moment? for, for the mining efforts that we've been talking about as well. the mining efforts

are a critical and early action that needs to be dealt with. and some of the points that we mentioned are certainly important. however, regarding leaves probably just going to cost it's the least costly $1.00. and perhaps, you know, in the right circumstances, something that can be dealt with relatively easily compared to the reconstruction. now, i mean, when we talk about reconstruction, we started talking about reconstruction. all we've been able to do it has been in so far is really char, the extensive damage to the most recent world bank report was only the 1st 4 months of the risk of the, of the war. since then, we've had terrible, terrible disruption in the center. so that was an 18 point. $5000000000.00 estimate, which so now we're talking closer to 2025. now that's the sort of a numbers that only reparations and martial bond type regional international funding can, can handle. yeah, so that's certainly one issue. but the other issue i think is also the staging and

the organizing role is and the fact that we need to be careful that not only that you and agencies are not replaced by a non you. and let's say players and the relief effort and the maritime core, for example. another thing, but also the above the stands are the leading, the reconstruction vision. and so, you know, where do you go with the level? do we use that to expand, to make a new bother the it's extremely critical and problem, you know, sensitive subject to be honest, a very strange i'm subjecting, oh, will have your 40 and own and what have you 40 and resources to rebuild the cost, the right absolutely, well, the authority for the principal to be the be a so we'll have that authority once it's it continues to reform it states and prepare for this. it has the reconstruction agency. that's where it should be. how's, but the world bank will be involved the regional donors, lot of what about in the process where israel co but you know, is it well if we,

you know, the principle of reparations, you know, something we have to talk about going back to 1948 if we can start with the 2023 war and pin them down on that, then the other ones might be, you know, but that's something we shouldn't forget. this is not the 1st time is real. this goes on, you know, on told, on and on, built incalculable damage, which it never has been held responsible for compensating, right, federico and i'm on your thoughts, looking ahead to reconstruction. how big of a gap do you think they'll be between? what's needed right now given, know what causes experience and the funding the funds that will be available the sort of see i was saying that bill keeps the increasing malls after malta destruction by this. all 4 of the my team will read the priority is to address the media to monitor the deeds. now, if you were to injures before we have seen, thousands of people are suffering from one conditions. and there are thousands of

people as stopped from injuries and required and not just immediate surgery, but also nursing care. and she's in charge of be really patient, you know, sometimes weeks or months off to off to the other blush are there. and there years and and done with new construction. i think it's, it's important to start funding now. but we're still far from, from, from the moment we, we need to, i seen international needs to address that would cause you solve this conflict. we need to make sure this conflict is the last one. if there is no real solution, that creates stability. and the for the us deals are security for the holidays, including israel. then the cannot be true reconstruction because the amount of money and apply to be verified. the number of the use of the, you know, 510 years of these. and i know how to regency with invest in that. i'm

just, there shouldn't be something stable. we've best not put an experience, but there's a future of peace and prosperity for our guys and forgot to sign in the region. awesome that jonathan, your thoughts, the, the venture reconstruction of guys, i will no doubt be a monumental task. you know, how important will it be to have a really solid process in place and what should be the priorities? because every building in the infrastructure is important. but as we heard treating the people, so of guys a who of experience who will be no, been victims of this conflict and who experience really severe injuries. what would also be a key? yeah, and it's, it's going to be very difficult to prioritize. i mean, generally speaking, the international community will have a captive funding that will guides voice areas. so they'll be they'll be that that supports clearance and, and in ineffective support the reconstruction. but also there'll be other sources of funding that will be directed towards supporting the civilians and victims. so i

think between between those 2 and between the different funding sources we can, we can separate um quite easily and, and yeah, i mean, i think as i mentioned before, assessment sort of central and so we can to, we get access and understand the extent of the contamination then it's very, very difficult to to understand exactly how the best, what is the best approach in traditional mind clearance. you know, we can go into surveys, we can map out areas and then we can have a proactive approach to, to clearance. and that might be the case in, in some thoughts of gaza. but in other parts it might be more responsive approach as people return it as a response mechanism in place for what they find. it could be having to educate, but we will need to educate all workers. everybody that comes back into dollars will need to be educated on the risks that these buys. and then we can have also a much and ex that's that a city on standby. it was supporting reconstruction teams,

are rubble removal teams. right. so it's going to be a combination of, of, of different approaches i think, depending on which part of the, the guy. so what we're going to be operating. yeah, jonathan, i wanted to ask you about, you know, some of the types of weapons that, that have been use. and apparently they include the controversial incendiary wide phosphorus which can sepi into water supplies. i understand. so the consequences of all this will be long lasting. i mean, how do you address that? yeah, i mean the, the use of in century weapons is, isn't, isn't near to, to, to conflict. but using it on this level in, in populated areas is, is going on presented and, and the environmental impact that it will have as it leaks as you mentioned, leaks into water systems, etc. so we'll need a completely different response and it's something that at the moment i can check that hasn't really worked on in, in great detail previously with other our initiatives in place at the moment. they're already looking at it and tests, and charles have been conducted on how we could potentially claim water supplies

from explosive procedures and things. so again, this is just such a complex department that we're the, that we're walking into and it's unprecedented. it's, it's something that we've never really seen before. i style an unprecedented situation. no doubt, roger lady in ramallah, i'll give you the last word. what should be the best approach? what should be the strategy for, for reconstruction? and what should decision makers do you think? consider when, when they move forward. well, 1st things 1st i think, and we've already heard about some of those 1st things. so i mean, there's a logical sequence of what you need to be, what needs to be done this year and what can be done? what needs to be done next year, and what might be possible given resources. and this year it's about, it's about emergency relief, which is costing around $3.00 to $3.00 and a half $1000000000.00 a year. it's about temporary shelter, which nobody has yet even started putting in place for up to. ready a 1000000 display people it's, you know,

next year is about the end. it's about revel removal. hopefully starting and these other immediate then you have a whole new stage next year, which is when you've been versus perhaps the people can start building again. but even then you need something to boost the private economy. people cannot after the sort of trauma mass trauma and the lack of service is a slow return of services cannot be expected to go back to work, you know, and do that. so we need a, a scheme, something like a universal emergency universal basically income scheme. so at least you know, before we start to rebuild or we need 10000000000 in the next year or so. and that's, you know, even that's daunting in the lock as everybody said, the lock was the fire and the lack of a political process. and then lots of other students taking charge of this process and not, not be mortgage to regional powers or even, you know, with all due respect the international agencies, which has been doing a brilliant job in our apps. thank you for the gentleman for a very interesting discussion, jonathan guthrie, federico dessie and roger holly d,

thank you very much for joining us on inside story and thank you to for watching. you can always watch this program again any time by visiting our website that entre 0 dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash 8 inside story force. you can join the conversation on x. i'll handle is i a j inside story from me for the back table and the whole team here in jo. hi . thank you for watching. the one of the biggest selections of 2024 indian general elections will administer now render moody's b t t increase its root across the country. how will economic uncertainty and use some employment swing voters in key states and will the media be able to cover the reading unfairly? ongoing coverage in the as an action on out is there a humanity is open the gates of hell. within those seats,

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1st lab funky to be given any useful at lot then. yet the holding off of 2 accounts was we examined the us each role in the work on alger 0. the hello, i'm 40 bad boy in doha. with the headlines on alger 0, i renew diplomatic pushes on the way to reach a ceasefire in gaza. us secretary of state to me blinking his insides. you're right . yes. where he's been meeting with regional counterparts. he says there's been measurable progress in the humanitarian situation in gaza, but more needs to be done is visit comes as leaders in the goals call for israel spine, military operation in rafa to be stopped. concrete .