words words to describe what setting the agenda for tomorrow's discussions right now. if you're on campus talking about the site, you are being called anti semitic and a supporter of care. international filmmakers and will cross journalist bring programs to enforce and inspire to options await us in the immediate future climate crisis or climate revolution on our own lives or on the international criminal court. it's investigating israel's actions in dallas in the west bank, and it's really officials fair. it's preparing to issue a restaurant states, a prime minister and all this seeing if it goes. so what would legal action means? the country honestly that this is inside store the,

at a very welcome to the program on the clock. so israel's prime minister says nobody will stop it's mandatory actions, not even the international criminal court. the icpc is investigating the countries operations and goals are in the occupied westbank and could issue warrants for the rest of benjamin netanyahu and other is ready lead as pieces such a move would be outrages and set a dangerous precedent in the foreign minister. and since the country will not be the tub and will continue to fight the quotes, the prosecutor says, anybody who breaks the law will be held accountable. this rally is not part of the i c c. and does not recognize as jurisdiction. yes, any warranty issues could put into officials at risk of being arrested in other countries. so what does this mean for netanyahu in this country? we'll put that to our guest shortly before us this report from the image in can. that is really officials say the international criminal court may issue arrest warrants for senior members of government. employment as to benjamin netanyahu may

be on the list. charges could be imagined through crimes committed during israel's own going on garza emergency meetings for poor keeping, held by the prime minister's office under my leadership, israel will never accept any attempts by the icpc to undermine its inherent rights of self defense. well, the i c. c will not fix israel's actions, it would say the dangerous precedent that threatens the soldiers and officials of old democracies fighting savage terrorism and one tone aggression. the only c. c is the only permanent international court that can prosecute individuals, the crimes against humanity, including genocide, palestine is admitted in 2015, but israel is known as a member and does not recognize its jurisdiction. however, many is writings all looked into the quote in the hague, for justice over these rays taken captive on october, the 7th. why hannah she beheld queen ali accountable for that trust that

we trust this. it has the capacity to read about justice for the hostages and their families. the, the trusting trust the cuter to israel is reinforced, or believe in the integrity and professionalism of the 4th international criminal court. prosecutor kareem called says to be a tax on october, the 7th come under the quotes jurisdiction and all part of his investigation into crimes and magically committed in garza. most of all must be respected. they can't be rented, although they can't be interpreted. so as to avoid them of meaning or to dilute a well vis, right? any protective purpose that the geneva conventions and the law provides the most valuable children, women, people that are sick or civilians. they must be interpreted with full protection.

the prosecutor has expressed deep concern over his writing cautions and its pulling of rough uh, wearer, and 1500000 people. sheltering possible charges could include acts regarded as collective punishments, including the deliberate salvation, palestinians, and garza, and the withholding of a israel. his face numerous accusations of crimes against humanity, by international lawyers and un representative. the state is also facing a case of genocide in the international court of justice. foot by south africa, presents for nathaniel hayes and arrest warrant may not be of immediate concern fault. it could impact his position internationally. it's only one thing, better. imaging, kimber out is 0. the inside story, a certain painting to take home that's bringing a panel of guess from tel aviv get in. libby is columbus with her. it's use paper and country in the united kingdom, jeffrey nice is a barrister and a human rights lawyer and in the gulf and bug stephen is eunice is

a professor of politics at the university of san francisco giants. a very well welcome to all of you at the i c. c, by its own definition, investigates where warranted and tries and individuals charged with a grave as crimes of concern to the international community. you know, the working. so be nice to see very well jeffrey. nice, we might well expect that the i c c would be looking into potential cries for both israel and how mass given everything that is going on since october, the 7th. it absolutely it should look at it. i'm glad even though it's happening to no problem, what mr. collins said, that all the primes of october the 7th, but commissioned on the is the side of the state of israel. he's satisfied, he's got jurisdiction there, and it's well known that he has jurisdiction for any crimes committed on garza, or indeed, on the west bank because of the acceptance of journalistic. and by the code

following a statement by the pattern sending over which in 1995. so from the very beginning, both sides of this country could have be. now i'm glad to say uh, being investigated by a 0 piece as being the established international court. you mentioned that jeffrey kreme calling the chief prosecutor of the stuff for criminal court at one more thing jeffrey the, the fact that israel is no signet treat to the i c. c. what difference does that make? how does that affect things? well, it doesn't mean the circumstances because if this account is satisfied already that he has jurisdiction, i have a cons committed on garza cherokee and he satisfied the cons committed on territory of israel, possibly because they were initiated on costly in the territory of gaza than they makes a difference that his brother is not a member of the international criminal called it comp, avoid the exercise of jurisdiction, but i missed the call on his team of prosecutors and we'd have to wait and see what

the outcome of this investigation is. all right, so what's the picture in tel aviv lets me to give you an levy. he's at the now and knows the defense the pulse of what's happening. the fact that benjamin netanyahu has, has come out and spoken about this get in uh, what does that say? and what does it demonstrate is the word known as warranty, but i must be frankly 0. there are moments of reach. i'm hope for, it's a very, i was very worried then the not only that it's in the old, but this was the moment that they owe. and these really lead, which is involved in your probation in the oil and gas i was afraid of was finding the ever one care. so everything says before he gets a full try to do so. and the, to my base, their lives wife complicates the bundle, will be able to trevor. indeed with the fact that you all wanted makes the horse the or game and you get a, it's got any more the condemnation. so the, your,

the resolution. so they have a u. n a germany assembly, how it's about the, the tried to larry israel, as i said, as a place where international crime, so being coordinated and good night as being want to be she's going to change the organ when you say, uh, there are members of administration, not any benjamin netanyahu who you're talking about, the intellus, let's explore more why they would be so afraid as you put it. ok to copy. nessa spoke many years ago. the way even moments in re shay and meeting. a few cases in which administer didn't get all the planning long gone. and the other general ken, since he's busy the, someone you wrote because there was some kind of pumas because it might the evidence in a surprise way. your not necessarily expecting in your land. benito pm junction and

all of a sudden you find yourself in german. i don't see deputies so, so quick a but even though they said most fear of feeling, the ones that this is very productive, i want to say that one more sentence. mm hm. it's very clear to me and he's letting the world does the same, the private circle me just it's very clear to me entries that would be good. it's going to investigate those crimes. and for to bring the job these though for responsible and accountable on those scribes, they leave the situation and any possible way in which no, but you wouldn't be thinking accountable unless some part of the initial institutions we get into the picture. and therefore, i say before, twice a day in there in various ways there's,

i'm also wondering because i think that those, so i comfortable for those tries to be brought to justice. okay, i steven soon as let's get the perspective from united states and some would say across the world that the i c c environments would give if they come with give another blow to israel's already by tomorrow standing. but of course, it depends on perception, and it's a completely different view point. for example, within the u. s. administration, isn't it very much so, and the united states has been pretty fossil towards the international criminal court, or from the very beginning. not only is the united states, one of the few western countries are not members of the court, but us of law as of forbid, as the united states from cooperating with the courts in any way. in fact, it goes as far as saying that the, the president is authorized to use whatever means necessary, which implies military force if any, if the united states or anybody,

any american or any member of allied country is held by or on behalf of the i c c, does those nickname, the invasion that got another a negative response from the doctors you might imagine. but uh, what, what we're going to say from united states. if indeed there is an indictment against nothing. yahoo is that you'll immediately be attacked as by us, as hypocritical as a double standard, which is, are wrong because the and there have been a number of foreign ads of states that have been indicted amendment and almost all black africans and the exception and actually is bottom air pollutant and nothing arrows and died, it would be the 1st pro western leader to ever get an indictment. and yet you can even better to leave the united states will consist of the big board to somehow by us. just as i said, when the international court of justice or other international bodies have,

i've called out israel for violations of international law. jeffrey gideon mentioned at the fact that he didn't think it would happen any time soon. how long could this process take away? how soon could it happens? what i mean? it's hard to know. i imagine the ccs prosecutor's being investigating this with some energy from the soon as it became possible that israel's response to the terrible attack re okay was the 7th was excessive. and so that is involve 4 or 5 months, i suppose could have been doing the work that he clearly has been doing. and there's no reason to believe that his arrest blog, if long his issue the sound, the room at the moment, will be out of the event on satisfactory grounds. fraud, he's got to stop at some stage. and at that stage,

providing there is no pressure applied to the i c, c to withdrawal the arrest. want then i have a or can your government in israel, my surrender people such as nothing yahoo to try on the international criminal court, which is what happened in the case of slowing down the rush, which was a non african head of state who was tried. oh, maybe in the later time, he'll find himself in a foreign country where he thinks he's safe and he is, and he is found it over saying reprise to at to hold on any of the senior members of his political cabinet or military trying to come on the mailman to may be the subject of arrest barnes, so it could happen comparatively quickly. or it could be in limbo for a very long time. indeed. really, that's just starting to clarify that jeffrey sort of jump in there. but just to clarify that say so it could happen relatively quickly, but within the confines of the war itself,

while the war is still going on when i was so that was impossible, was it because mister netanyahu is known as he's prime minister, is not going to make himself available to be arrested by any one in with me at a didn't levy. the perception within israel will differ widely given the painter idea of, of the prime minister. the just give us some idea of, of how it would be resolved rule. this would put benjamin netanyahu in the same category as for our leaders like and we're all about. she had the deposed president of sue don, and indeed, the russian president vladimir putin. the 1st of all, i would like to hear that focusing only on its own. y'all was ordered by lack of respect for the video for the older folk listen, it's audio is really unfair because what we see now is an outcome of view. so it's very clear for the superclass i dental to patients if any i didn't start the visit

then, you know, being seen, fancied including the incursions info goes up as opposed to every single nathan yeah, he's very comfortable. and then so claim that i still where you get treat today to people from the neo is what a returning to the earth, those the, the oldest germs that the 3 be easily be a little bit over sick the car beat. so they're both as a new oh and no they don't before because visual, he's accepted by the showings, or is there any public opinion before was approved by the federal government in boss of the med, most of the 500 us supporting this war. and so for people to use the score, it's not like one big stated to a year to piece or stage into a war is now he's responsible. there are many more this will they share interest plus the responsibility in a cult. they've been in the amount of them august, the biggest this is also the edge of the country. it seems that they are looking

for those cry. now is why we, as usual it's, it's, it's that perpetual war and playing the i sees i have to submit things like that. i was going to be some, i think is what we play the dose of that was done. this is when we claim that the or her, the 8 sauce it, no one or most of the one is really off. just a moment i will be, do we get to it? is it's really only the word sport is the know stored, done by use read all we really so you know, sense the really cool. got this war. even guys. uh, according to the position at all those questions with not to be asked. yeah. this is, let's take it onto the but what leads back to, as i've been preaching, and russia, if we could, students soonest, because you do wonder what difference this would make given what happened to him,

the ice, these, these pre trial chambers shooting a warrant for the rest of fundament puts in a mazda 17th 2023. it is made up. so you know, differences retired on his board and ukraine with impunity. so what the difference is, i like to make, in this case israel is much more dependent on outside of the trade and military have. and the, like russia is russia obviously is a huge country of open size and population. israel, despite its uh military mites and technological sophistication is still quite small . and indeed quite quite dependent. and it would make it very difficult. now for a nothing yahoo and other is rarely easy or indicted from travelling abroad, of united states might be just about the only country where they could travel to, to safely say it safely. and, and also i think it could uh, increase the uh,

possibility that there can be some sanctions or some limitations other pressure from western countries. again, in the united states unfortunately, would probably resist this kind of thing. but it would empower, i think, human rights activist and, and their supporters including trade unions and popular movements as far as the international community a to put greater pressure on this room. and so i don't think uh, nothing of who's any more likely to actually say just to this actually go to go to prison. and then susan, i think the political impact could indeed be quite more significant. but it is israel. these ready government has shown itself to be a monster of ignoring international sanctions. a thank you very much, sir. the trouble is a sanctions have not been that strong. the united states obviously has block united nations from taking any action. and while some european countries, i've been reluctant to the, to provide certain kinds of military technology use,

the trade is going to is continue and, and, you know, that israel is seen very much as a part of europe in certain ways. and with the diamond like this, i think it would be in a far more controversial, at least. and i think certainly there are some, some sanctions good. the would be there that needs release could actually feel for the 1st time that again, rather this, it will actually alter policy as long as we have this lifelines in the united states. that is another question, but certainly they, they don't there, they will feel that there will be sent them back to the end. get in benjamin does know who's that came out and said that this would not affect you as well as actions moving forward. but then you think it might have implications on the way that israel behaves, that immediately the world grows. no, the show trust. because the owls main purpose is allowed to achieve this audit. you've ever gone? no faith summation, come boss. and he's,

are the goal is to remain in power. no meant, uh what's the icpc is that beside the n for the cs to continue. and i'm afraid to really continue, you know, sort of sort of, even if she stops now the role. busy or the i c c a is a me, i being the crime. so we're committed and someone will have to be banking accounts for those problems. i mean we, we face enough to best. ok. so you guys i, there are 7 minds. don't think them now is to lead to lead to late, but i don't think that this is still isn't in the neo gets indoor alpha unfortunately. so do you think that will still proceed now? i'm afraid so unless the americans wouldn't be very clear about which they don't seem to be. jeffrey, there is a suggestion that this at icbc investigation will be attached to. it has been

attached to the current itc investigations underway in into potential crimes, which date back to 2014, to the 13th of june, 2014. so this about the if you would, and just how that would work. just attaching the 2 together, attaching them as possible. i suppose it for continuing intention on the part of israel that could be said to be criminal is established, but it is a burden. another really important part about operation protective edge of 2014. and what happened subsequent to it in 2014 as well. and they're certainly get accepted. that would be a good thing if the icpc went in in the following year. the cc got jurisdiction as 2015. so we have to look at the 8 years over which it might be argued to the i. c. c. have dragged its freak

concerning the unhappy and tragic events of 2014, much smaller than they might have been the present crisis consequences. and you have to ask, well, supposing in fact t i c c had shown itself to be busy in those 8 years, 9 years and showed itself to be willing to take home these really leadership and not to be intimidated by the united states, which may well over those years have been turning it from taking action. you my boss gets the present thing could have happened. a tool to present conflict would have happened a tool because leaders on bad side, how about assigned israel would have know that there was a legal system in white and ready to deal with them even if it had the battery. finally got round to assure me

a risk lawrence about project about the event since october, so protective edge. and everything that happened since then in the legal setting may indeed be something that provides a continual retreat of intention on the part of his dread. remember that protective injures described by some is positive, is right state retro as a policy of mine, the grass, which was the way perhaps keeping goes on to control. this is a continuing intention shared in between the 2. then it's entirely possible for the prosecutor. we'll be looking at the crimes as connected much gray, whether the present one's needs versus how that happened in 2014. extremely serious . indeed. there's a well $500.00 children cope. i think. all right, thanks for that jeffrey this, steven a. so we have these itc investigations guy on then of course there is south africa's genocide case at the international court of justice. how do these 2

separate investigations square up? and then i guess they kind of run concurrently, right? very much. so any one looks out of the specifics of the ongoing or whether that does constitute a violation of the international genocide of treating the or not and, and whether it is real indeed is guilty of such a violations. there is a simultaneous sort of a case actually about rock around the legality of the, of a fifty's kind of a sudden you're, it's really our occupation of the west bank and other territories exceeds the end of june. 1967 more. they are now supported justice, which has been around for, for many, many decades, is visit about countries about individual countries and their relation to international law. and they are brought forward, you know, by of each other. other member nations, honestly, you know, world court, your national criminal court, which is found only recently in 1999,

looks at crimes of individuals. so it's more on the, on the level, the dashboard adjust. this looks like these are on a state level and they're violations, whereas the i, c, c, a looks at it on the individual level of the individual leaders who are responsible for specific work aren't good. and how do you think this latest reprobation is likely to affect the world views of you? we touched on the united states anyway, the student process as elsewhere in the world and data widespread, is growing condemnation or light over the labor of the way. israel is that doing this? this just adds to that, does it, it makes the whole concept. what is rails doing in garza to many toxic no doubt that the last 7 minds swear, crucial, or in the way that they change the jo though the style of these red and this time. oh, so that was, that was in the style mode. so the united states, and this time even some of the jewish communities in the world,

is using big travelers. we have to face a, we have to have to meet it. is like this out see, did advise you, but that's another question. but they said it's all, it's all connected to this, the call you see that these walking guys, uh, which was bunch was the or the was that is a head launched before. always spelt many, mo, cbd is being cute. should we man, so patient destruction, you name me the, you know, or you'll know exactly what they mean. this whole is a game changer. and often these warranty is running cannot be perceived anymore. as you pause for the sink, is that these right is i don't expose, but they just gas out because nobody's showing there are, there was, sees guns. and anyone who sees guys totaled remaining deeper, right?

cannot say, oh but syria they created the more anyone who sees guys up is very, very hard question. twice a big big suspicions of. busy the one those why count the vote for this and therefore it's the coins events. each of those i was trying now to bring people who are responsible for their reality in guys to be taken. they come to the and their executive demo or for the international community. a gentleman all the time is done. we appreciate your contributions. thank you very much. thanks. so what i guess that could be, let me, jeffrey dyson, stevens. you know, thanks very much and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again at any time just by visiting a website out. is there a common for further discussion? just go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. because you can also join the conversation on x i'll handle is at a j inside story for me,

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bold and i'm told stories from asia and the pacific on out just sierra, the the hello i, mario, minimize the welcome to the news, our life from doha. coming up in the next 60 minutes for us here, just from the international criminal court, or a forcibly gathering testimony. officer. the discovery of mass graves, it's to cause a hospital's us find 5 is riley minutes for you and it's responsible for human rights violations before the war in gaza but says they won't be sanctioned.