repeatedly imperialism run the nowhere more so than in the democratic republic of congo. wherever restrict history still shapes the presence of the serial. yet instant insights to the eyes of a whistle blower and the patriarch ministry come on. witness presents. this is come on a jersey the allies are on the international criminal. it's investigating israel's actions in dallas in the west bank and its really officials ferrets for periods, which arrests one states, a prime minister and all this seeing if it goes. so what would legal action means? the country, honestly that this is inside store the,

at a very welcome to the program on the clock. so israel's prime minister says nobody will stop it's mandatory actions, not even the international criminal court. the icpc is investigating the countries operations in gall, certainly bulky, polite, westbank, and could issue warrants for the rest of benjamin netanyahu, and other is ready, lead as pieces such a move would be outrages and set a dangerous precedent in the foreign minister. and since the country will not be the tubs, and will continue to fight the quotes, the prosecutor says, anybody who breaks the law will be held accountable. this rel, is not part of the i c c, and does not recognize as jurisdiction. yes, any warranty issues could put into officials at risk of being arrested in other countries. so what does this mean for netanyahu in this country will put that to our guest shortly before us. this report from the image in can, that is really officials say the international criminal court may issue arrest warrants for senior members of government employment as to benjamin netanyahu. may

be on the list. charges could be imagined group crimes committed during israel's own. going on garza emergency meetings have a pool to deepen, held by the prime minister's office. under my leadership, israel will never accept any attempts by the icpc to undermine its inherent rights of self defense. well, the i, c. c will not fix israel's actions. it would say the dangerous precedent that threatens the soldiers and officials of old democracies fighting savage terrorism and one's own aggression. the only c c is the only permanent international court that can prosecute individuals. the crimes against humanity, including genocide, palestine is admitted in 2015, but israel is not a member and does not recognize its jurisdiction. however, many is writings all looked into the quote in the hague for justice over these rays taken captive on october, the 7th for him, a service agent,

she beheld cleanly accountable for that trust that we trust this. it has the capacity to read about justice for the hostages and their families. the, the trusting trust the cuter to israel is reinforced. i believe, in the integrity and professionalism of the 4th international criminal court. prosecutor kareem called says to be a tax on october. the 7th come on to the quotes jurisdiction and all part of his investigation into crimes and magically committed in garza. most of all must be respected. they can't be rented, although they can't be interpreted so as to avoid them of meaning or to dilute a well vis, right? any protective purpose that the geneva conventions and the law provides the most valuable children, women, people that are sick or civilians. they must be interpreted with full protection.

the prosecutor has expressed deep concern over his writing cautions and its pulling of rough uh, wearer, and 1500000 people. sheltering possible charges could include acts regarded as collective punishments, including the deliberate salvation, palestinians, and garza. and the withholding of a israel, his face numerous accusations of crimes against humanity by international lawyers and un representative. the state is also facing a case of genocide in the international court of justice. foot by south africa presents for nathaniel hayes and arrest warrant may not be of immediate concern fault. it could impact his position internationally. it's only one thing, better. imaging, kimber out is 0. the inside story a certain painting to take home that's bringing a panel of guess from tel aviv give you and leave is columbus with her? it's use paper and country in the united kingdom. jeffrey. nice is a barrister and a human rights lawyer. and in the delton bug stevens, eunice is

a professor of politics at the university of san francisco giants. a very well welcome to all of you at the i. c. c. by its own definition, investigates where warranted and tries and individuals charged with a grave as crimes of concern to the international community. you know, the working somebody like to see very well jeffrey. nice. we might well expect that the i c. c would be looking into potential cries for both israel and how mass given everything that is going on since october, the 7th. it absolutely it should look at it. i'm glad, even though it's happening to no problem, what mr. collins said that all the primes of october, the 7th or commissioner on the is the side of the state of israel. he's satisfied, he's got jurisdiction there. and it's well known that he has jurisdiction for any crimes committed on costs, or indeed on the west bank. because of the acceptance of journalistic,

and by the cold following a statement by the pattern sending over which in 1995. so from the very beginning, both sides of this country could have be. now i'm glad to say uh, being investigated by as little piece as being the established international court . you mentioned that jeffrey kreme calling the chief prosecutor of the stuff for criminal court at one more thing jeffrey the. the fact that israel is no signet treat to the i c. c. what difference does that make? how does that affect things? well, it doesn't mean the circumstances, because if this account is satisfied already, that he has jurisdiction of crimes committed on garza cherokee. and he's satisfied the crimes committed on territory of israel. possibly because they were initiated on gossley in the territory of gaza than they makes a difference that his brother is not a member of the international criminal court. it comes avoid the exercise of jurisdiction, but i missed the call on his team of prosecutors. and we'd have to wait and see

what the outcome of those investigations. all right, so what's the picture in tel aviv lets me to give you an leaving. he's at the now and knows the defense the pulse of what's happening. the fact that benjamin netanyahu has, has come out and spoken about this get in uh, what does that say? and what does it demonstrate is the word known as worthy. but i must be frankly 0. there are moments of reach. i'm hope for, it's a very i was very worried then the not only that it's in the old, but this was the moment that they owe. and these really lead, which is involved in your bank showing the oil and gas i was afraid of was finding the everyone care. so everything says before he gets a full try to do so. and the, to my base, their lives wife complicates the bundle, will be able to trevor. indeed with the fact that you all wanted makes the horse the or game and you get a, it's got any more the condemnation. so the, your,

the resolution. so they have a u. n a germany assembly, how it's about the, the tried to larry israel, as i said, as a place where international crime, so being coordinated and good night as being want to be she's going to change the organ when you say, uh, there are members of administration, not any benjamin netanyahu who you are talking about, the intellus, let's explore more why they would be so afraid as you put it. ok to copy. nessa spoke many years ago. the way even moments in re shay and getting a few cases in which administer didn't get all the planning long gone. and the other general ken, since he's busy the, someone you wrote because there was some kind of pumas because it might the evidence in a surprise way. your not necessarily expecting in your land,

benito pm junction. and all of a sudden you find yourself in german. i don't see deputies so, so quick a but even though they said most fear of feeling the ones that this is very productive, i want to say that one more sentence. mm hm. it's very clear to me and he's that thing the world does the same. a private circle. me just it's very clear to me entries that would be good. it's going to investigate those crimes. and for to bring to adjust these though for responsible and accountable on those scribes. they leave the situation and any possible way in which no, but you wouldn't be thinking accountable unless some part of the international institutions we get into the picture. and therefore, i say before, twice a day in there in various ways there's,

i'm also wondering because i think that those, so i comfortable for those tries to be brought to justice. okay, i steven soon as let's get the perspective from united states and some would say across the world that the i c c environments would give if they come with give another blow to israel's already by tomorrow standing. but of course, it depends on perception, and it's a completely different view point. for example, within the u. s. administration, isn't it very much so, and the united states has been pretty fossil towards the international criminal court, or from the very beginning. not only is the united states, one of the few western countries are not members of the court, but us of law as of forbid, as the united states from cooperating with the courts in any way. in fact, it goes as far as saying that the, the president is authorized to use whatever means necessary, which implies military force if any, if the united states or anybody,

any american or any member of allied country is held by or on behalf of the i c c, does those nickname the invasion act? got another, a negative response from the doctors you might imagine. but what we're going to say from united states, if indeed, there is an indictment against nothing. yahoo is that you'll immediately be attacked as by us, as hypocritical as a double standard, which is, are wrong because the and there have been a number of foreign ads of states that have been indicted amendment and almost all black africans and the exception and actually is bottom air pollutant and nothing arrows and died, it would be the 1st pro western leader to ever get in and documented. and yet you can even better to leave the united states will consist of the big board to somehow by us. just as i said, when the international court of justice or other international bodies have,

i've called out israel for violations of international law. jeffrey gideon mentioned at the fact that he didn't think it would happen any time soon. how long could this process take away? how soon could it happens? what i mean? it's hard to know. i imagine the ccs prosecutor's being investigating this with some energy from the soon as it became possible that israel's response to the terrible attack re okay was the 7th was excessive. and so that is involve 4 or 5 months, i suppose could have been doing the work that he clearly has been doing. and there's no reason to believe that his arrest blog, if long his issue the sound, the room at the moment, will be out of the event on satisfactory grounds. fraud, he's got to stop at some stage. and at that stage,

providing there is no pressure applied to the i c. c to withdrawal the arrest. want, can i have a or can your government in israel may surrender people such as nathan yahoo to try on the international criminal court, which is what happened in the case of slowing down the rush, which was a non african head of state who was tried. oh, maybe in the later time, he'll find himself in a foreign country where he thinks he's safe and he is, and he is found it over saying, reprise to at to hold on. any of the senior members of his political cabinet will military try to come on the mailman to may be the subject of arrest barnes, so it could happen comparatively quickly or it could be in limbo for very long time . indeed, the 2nd to clarify that jeffrey sort of jump in there, but just to clarify that so, so it could happen relatively quickly, but within the confines of the war itself,

while the war is still going on. when i was so that was impossible, was it because mister netanyahu is known as he's prime minister is not going to make himself available to be arrested by any one in with me at a didn't levy. the perception within israel will differ widely given the painter idea of, of the prime minister. the just give us some idea of, of how it would be resolved rule. this would put benjamin netanyahu in the same category as for our leaders, like and we're all about. she had the deposed president of sue don, and indeed the russian president vladimir putin. the 1st of all, i would like to hear that focusing only on its own. y'all was ordered by lack of respect for the video for the older folk listen, it's audio is really unfair. because what we see now is an outcome of view. so it's very clear for the c o 5 site dental to patients that didn't start the visit and

you know, being seen, fancied including the incursions info goes up and proposed to every single nathan. yeah, he's very comfortable. and then so claim that i still, we will get you to the table from the neo, is returning to the earth. those the, the oldest germs that the 3 be easily be a little bit. all of us think the car beats or all to about this. and you always know they go before because the floor, he's accepted by the showings, or is there any public opinion before was approved by the federal government in boss of the med, most of the 500 us supporting this war. and so for people to use the score, it's not like one big stated to you to piece or stage into a war is now he's responsible. there are many more this will they share interest plus the responsibility in a cult. they've been in the amount of them august, the biggest this is also the edge of the country. it seems that they are looking

for those cry. now is when we as usual it's, it's, it's that perpetual war and playing the ice. he sees, i have to submit to think that i was going to be some, i think is why we play the dose of douglas done. this is when we claim that the or her, the 8 so it, no one or most of the one is really off. just a moment i will be, do we get to it? is it is really only the word sport is the know stored, done by use, read all we really so, you know, send the really cool. got this war. even guys, uh, according to the technician at all those questions with not to be honest. yeah. this is, let's take it onto the but what leads back to, as i've been preaching and russia, if we could students doing this because you do wonder what difference this would make given what happened to him, the ice, these, these pre trial chambers shooting

a warrant for the rest of fundament puts in a mazda 17th 2023. it is made up shooting no differences, retired on his war and ukraine with impunity. so what difference is it likely to make, in this case, israel is much more dependent on outside of the trade and military hated. and the, like russia is russia, obviously is that is a huge country of open size in population. israel, despite its military mites and technological sophistication, is still quite small. and indeed quite quite dependent. and it would make it very difficult. now for a nothing yahoo and other is rarely easy or indicted from traveling abroad of united states might be even just about the only country where they could travel to, to safely say it safely. and, and also i think it could uh, increase the uh,

possibility that there can be some sanctions or some limitations other pressure from western countries. again, in the united states unfortunately, would probably resist this kind of thing. but it would empower, i think, human rights activist and, and their supporters including trade unions in popular movements as far as the international community, a to put greater pressure on this room. and so i don't think uh, nothing of who is any more likely to actually say just to this actually go to go to prison. and then susan, i think the political impact would indeed be quite more significant. but it is israel. these ready government has shown itself to be a monster of ignoring international sanctions. they thank you very much, sir. the trouble is a sanctions have not been that strong. the united states obviously has block united nations from taking any action. and while some european countries, i've been reluctant to of the, to provide certain kinds of military technology use,

the trade is going to is continue and, and, you know, that israel is seen very much as a part of europe in certain ways. and without a diamond like this, i think it would be a far more controversial, at least. and i think certainly there are some, some sections good to be there that needs released could actually feel for the 1st time that again, rather this, it will actually alter policy as long as we have this lifelines in the united states. that is another question, but certainly they, they don't there, they will feel that there will be sent them back to the end. get in benjamin does know who's that came out and said that this would not affect you as well as actions moving forward. but then you think it might have implications on the way that israel behaves, that immediately the world goes no, the show trust. because the owls main purpose is allowed to achieve this audit. you've ever gone? no faith summation, come boss. and he's,

are the goal is to remain in power. no meant, uh, what's the icpc is that beside the n for the cs to continue. and i'm afraid to really continue, you know, sort of sort of even issues stokes. now the war, the i c, c a is a mean i being the crime, so we're committed and someone will have to be banking accounts for those problems . i mean we, we face enough to best. okay. so you guys ended up 7 months dumping them now is to lead to that too late. but i don't think that this is still isn't in the neo gets indoor alpha unfortunately. so do you think that will still proceed now? i'm afraid so unless the americans wouldn't be very clear about what do to which they don't seem to be jeffrey, there is a suggestion. this is the investigation will be attached to it has been attached to

the current itc investigations underway and into potential crimes which date back to 2014, to the 13th of june. 2014. tell us about that if you would, and just how that would work. just attaching the 2 together, attaching them as possible, i suppose, if for continuing intention on the part of israel that could be said to be criminal is established. but it is a burden. another really important part about operation protective page of 2014 and what happened subsequent to it in 2014 as well. and they're certainly get accepted. that would be a good thing if the icpc went in in the following year. the cc got jurisdiction, that's 2015. so we have to look at the a. t is over which it might be argued to the i. c.

c. have dragged its freak concerning the uh, unhappy and tragic events of 2014, much smaller than they might have been the present crisis consequences. and you have to ask. well, supposing in fact t i c c had shown itself to be busy in those 8 years, 9 years and showed itself to be willing to take home these really leadership and not to be intimidated by the united states, which may well over those years have been turning it from taking action you my boss gets the present thing could have happened. a tool to present conflict would have happened a tool because leaders on bad side, how about assigned israel would have know that there was a legal system in white and ready to deal with them even if it had the battery. finally got round to assure me

a risk lawrence about project about the event since october, so protective edge. and everything that happened since then in the legal setting may indeed be something that provides a continual retreat of intention on the part of his dread. remember that protective injures described by some is positive, is right state retro as a policy of mine, the grass, which was the way perhaps keeping goes on to control. this is a continuing intention shared in between the 2. then it's entirely possible for the prosecutor. we'll be looking at the crimes as connected much gray with the present ones. amazing those. how that happened in 2014, extremely serious. indeed. there's a well $500.00 children cope. i think. all right, thanks for that jeffrey steven. i said we have these by cc investigations guy on then of course there is south africa's genocide case at the international court of justice. how do these 2 separate investigations square up?

and then i guess they kind of run concurrently, right? very much. so any one looks out of the specifics of the ongoing or whether that does constitute a violation of the international genocide of treating the or not and, and whether it is real indeed is guilty of such a violations. there is a simultaneous sort of a case actually about rock around the legality of the, of a fifty's kind of a sudden you're, it's really our occupation of the west bank and other territories exceeds the end of june. 1967 more. they are now supported justice, which has been around for, for many, many decades, is busy about countries about individual countries and their relation to international law. and they are brought forward young by of each other. other member nations, obviously, you know, world court, the national criminal court which has found only recently in 1999,

looks at crimes of individuals. so it's more on the, on the level, the dashboard adjust. this looks like these are on a state level and they're violations, whereas the i, c, c, a looks at it on the individual level of the individual leaders who are responsible for specific work aren't good. and how do you think this latest reprobation is likely to affect the world views of you? we touched on the united states any with student practice as elsewhere in the world . and data wide spread is growing condemnation or light over the labor of the way. israel is that doing this? this just adds to that, does it? it makes the whole concept. what is rails doing in garza to many toxic no doubt that the last 7 minds swear, crucial, or in the way that they change that secure the, the hardest, all of these red. and this time also that was, that was in the style mode. so the united states, and this time even some of the jewish communities in the world,

is using big travelers. we have to face a, we have to have to meet it. is like this helps you divide 0, but that's another question. but they said it's all, it's all connected to this, the call you see that these walking guys, uh, which was bunch was the or the was that is a head launched before. always spelt many, mo, cbd is being cute. should the women so patient destruction, you name means and then you know, or you'll know exactly what they mean. this whole is a game changer. and often these warranty is running cannot be perceived anymore as you pause for the sink is that these right is i don't expose, but they just gas out because nobody's showing there are, there was, sees goes up. and anyone who sees guys totaled remaining deeper read,

cannot say, oh, but the syria they created, the more anyone who sees guys up is very, very hard question. gloss in big big suspicions of. busy the one those why count the vote for this and therefore it's the coins events. each of those i was trying now to bring people who are responsible for their reality in gaza to be taken. they come to that and that's exactly the oil for the international community. a gentleman all the time is done, we appreciate your contributions. thank you very much. thanks. so what i guess that could be, let me, jeffrey dyson, stevens. you know, thanks very much and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again at any time just by visiting a website out. is there a common for further discussion? just go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. because you can also join the conversation on x i'll handle is at a j inside story for me,

the clock and the whole team here is good bye. for now. the one of the biggest selections of 2024. india is general election. will administer now render movies be taking increase its route across the country? how will economic uncertainty and you've sent employment suede boots as in key states and will the media be able to cover the vote freebie and fairly ongoing coverage. but in the, as an action on, out as the era, indonesia is building a new capital city. deep in the jungles of borneo, this is part of the original from our boss to an issue. but not everyone supports the idea of india and get that someone would definitely have. we see this as an authoritarian decision who's on the 101 east where deals indonesia using a megacity on out to 0 in the brazilian amazon,

a star trail of the ongoing tragedy faced by the enemy, people. for years they have borne the brunt of the legal minding activities in rivers points and with mercury, rendering water and drinkable and fish inedible. in 2023 pressed. and we've seen this one of us to send a national task force to expel the invaders from the reserve. more than the year has gone by and nothing has changed or illegal minors return every day. we see there pines coming and going present lula has promised to help deforestation to increase the number of indigenous reserves for suffering indigenous people here say they've come to realize that having government support is not enough. they're still facing strong resistance from the powerful lobby in congress. to the state village, spend the fight from their villages to the countries court rooms and electing their own politicians to save their lives.

the bold and i'm told stories from age and the pacific on out just sierra the to hello. i'm fully back to boy and doha, with a look at the headlines on al jazeera, israel's foreign minister benjamin netanyahu has vowed to attack rafa and southern guys that with or without a ceasefire deal with him us. that's despite international calls for restraint. 1.5000000 forcibly display spot us 2 names are sheltering in the city. that's now is common just come just hours before the us secretary of state, down to me blinking is due to live in israel is currently in jordan as part of the latest diplomatic push for a ceasefire on monday, blinking met.