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tv   The Zaks Affair  BBC News  April 13, 2024 10:30pm-11:01pm BST

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that was the statement from the uk prime minister. will vernon is monitoring developments for us in washington, dc. and what have been the key developments from your side? well, president biden has returned
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urgently to the white house. he is having a meeting there. we think round about now with his national security team. and we know they are in close coordination and contact with the israelis. mr biden cut short his weekend away, he was meant to spend a weekend at his beach residence in delaware. but he came back to washington for these urgent meetings. now, us forces in the region are also on alert. the military presence there has been bolstered significantly since october 7th last year and we know that there are fighter planes there, us fighter planes and naval assets in the region and our partner here in the region and our partner here in the region and our partner here in the us, cbs news, are reporting saying those forces are ready to assist the israelis if they need it to shoot down any missiles for example that might threaten their territory. but i think this is a sensitive time, especially bearing in mind the recent disagreements
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between the us and israel over the war in gaza. mr biden has said several times that he is not happy with the way the israelis have been conducting that war. but us officials have been very clear to draw a line and a distinction between those two things, between the conduct of the war in gaza and israel's security more generally. in the last few days, and we saw it today as well, us officials and today as well, us officials and today was the us secretary of defence lloyd austin calling his israeli counterpart yoav gallant, us official saying repeatedly us support for israeli security is unwavering. president biden called it ironclad, didn't he? so i think the us wants to draw a distinction saying that on the one hand, we have israeli security more generally protecting israel from threats from iran and proxies like hezbollah and thatis iran and proxies like hezbollah and that is not going to change. and then there is the conduct of the war
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in gaza which is a separate thing, which were not too happy about. so this comes at a difficult time in us israeli relations. but on this, protecting israel from iran, american support is absolutely clear and is not going to change. fix, american support is absolutely clear and is not going to change. a, bit and is not going to change. a bit more coming — and is not going to change. a bit more coming from _ and is not going to change. a bit more coming from the _ and is not going to change. a bit more coming from the iranian side. by more coming from the iranian side. by the reuters news agency, reports that the iranian defence minister has said that any country that opens its air space or territory for attacks on iran by israel will receive tehran�*s firm response. so any israeli ally is how i am reading it. you describe various us forces in the region, where are these key locations and the key allies for the us where they have established within the region?— us where they have established within the region? well, the us has
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a number of— within the region? well, the us has a number of bases _ within the region? well, the us has a number of bases in _ within the region? well, the us has a number of bases in the _ within the region? well, the us has a number of bases in the middle - a number of bases in the middle east. of course, the mediterranean sea is where those naval assets are, including fighterjets on those vessels. but i think it's interesting what you are saying about the iranian, the statement from the iranian authorities because after that attack on the iranian embassy building in damascus at the beginning of april, the iranians clearly, israel was blamed for that and it is widely believed israel carried out the air strike, but the iranians also said america bears responsibility for that attack. and that led to fears here in washington that led to fears here in washington that us forces might be targeted in the iranian response. and that really is the nightmare scenario for people here in washington, that the us will somehow get dragged into some sort of direct military confrontation with iran. that is what nobody wants here and most likely, the iranians don't want that
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either. so the us military have said that their forces are on alert to ensure that they are protected from any potential iranian attack, but us intelligence official speaking to us media have said that they expect these iranian strikes will target israel directly and not us forces in the region. israel directly and not us forces in the region-— the region. how closely is this bein: the region. how closely is this being followed _ the region. how closely is this being followed and _ the region. how closely is this being followed and how - the region. how closely is this being followed and how much | the region. how closely is this - being followed and how much does it matter to americans?— matter to americans? well, i mean, it is an election _ matter to americans? well, i mean, it is an election year— matter to americans? well, i mean, it is an election year here, _ matter to americans? well, i mean, it is an election year here, isn't - it is an election year here, isn't it? and that plays into absolutely everything. and relations with israel, especially of course with the war in gaza, that has become an election issue here. and there are large groups of voters, many traditionally democratic voters, who are extremely unhappy with president biden�*s support for israel. there are large groups of them, these voters, who are minority groups,
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young voters, exactly the kind of people thatjoe biden needs if he has any hope whatsoever of remaining in the white house by november in that crucial election. that crucial presidential election. so absolutely, it is being followed closely here by all the us networks and ordinary americans, in the context of that wider, in the context of that wider, in the context of that wider, in the context of that wider issue of the war in gaza. but also, of course, in terms of the security of america's most important ally in the middle east. ~ ., most important ally in the middle east. ~ . ., east. we will leave it there for now, east. we will leave it there for new. thank — east. we will leave it there for now, thank you _ east. we will leave it there for now, thank you very _ east. we will leave it there for now, thank you very much - east. we will leave it there for - now, thank you very much indeed. tel aviv is looking calm on your screen at the moment. but all of israel, thatis at the moment. but all of israel, that is northern israel you can see, all of israel currently on a state of alert, as iran does indeed launch its promised attack on israel. operation true promise is how it is
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been described by iran's revolutionary guard. daniel levy is a former negotiator and president of the us middle east project. welcome to the programme. what is your assessment of where we are right now? , ., ., , ., assessment of where we are right now? , . ., , ., ., now? there is an awful lot of speculation. _ now? there is an awful lot of speculation. there _ now? there is an awful lot of speculation. there is - now? there is an awful lot of speculation. there is also - now? there is an awful lot of speculation. there is also an | now? there is an awful lot of- speculation. there is also an awful lot of, i imagine, disinformation. part of this is psychological warfare as well as to what is exactly going on, that will become clearer in the coming hours. i think what we can say right now is, let's stick to what we know, which is that for the six months, it has been quite clear that the signal sent by iran where that its intention was not to be brought directly into this. that has been an outcome the
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us was looking to achieve. clearly, the us has given israel tremendous rope to operate with impunity in gaza and we have seen the devastation there and the killing and suffering on a mass scale. but america was being i think quite clear with israel not to turn this into a regional conflagration. they were indirect channels between the us and iran and perhaps meetings in oman between those countries. iran had stayed out of this, hezbollah, the largest active within the actors of resistance led by iran had tied down israeli forces in the north —— axis of resistance. there was an exchange continuously between the israel and lebanon border, but that had been kept within certain parameters. then there was this strike on april the 1st in the iranian diplomatic compound in damascus and the killing of the senior generals. that was clearly an
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escalatory step and now we are in a place which i think most people were seeking to avoid since the beginning of a possible serious escalation. and what is going on right now, it's unclear, it is what one might call a fishing expedition on the part of iran, testing the israeli air defences, seeing what gets through, what doesn't. what are the options that it will have going forward, what kind of response will there be from the israeli side? i think prime minister netanyahu is a set of calculations which do not necessarily align totally with what might be in israel's best interest. many people since israel the first in israel were asking the question, was that assassination a smart move? —— since april the 1st. that is where we are at the moment, i think. daniel, as i said to our viewers you are a former israeli negotiator, so
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you understand the context in the mindset so well. two points on this i would like to explore with you. first, is benjamin netanyahu likely to hear and to heed warnings and some would say the demands that he rethinks his strategy in gaza? let me 'ust rethinks his strategy in gaza? let me just start by saying that i don't want to paint a picture of a golden era in israel, but i was not involved at a time where you had, there is no other word for it, aggressor, it paint —— it pains me to say it, such a genocidal tilt inside the israeli leadership. so i just need to acknowledge that first. i don't think those demands exist, i think that is one of the real problems. in the lead—up to october 7th, we tend to think that before
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october 7th, things were normal. things were not normal. you had palestinians living in a situation of permanent denial of their most basic freedoms and rights, a system of structural violence which people have started, states, notjust human rights groups calling it an illegal regime of apartheid. such was the extremes of the israeli government, nothing was normal. certainly not what happened on october 7th and that military attack violating international norms and not what has happened since. i say that because i think in this context, we have not seen an effective demand from the us to de—escalate and when one looks at the regional conflagration, we have been told for six months that the way to dial down regional tension is to end the war in gaza. but the us has continued to provide weapons, the uk as well of course, we have seen the refusal of the uk government. these are significant symbolically, it is a symbolic
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message also on international law that that has continued. so what i fear is that netanyahu is aware that he has the united states in a place where it can be dragged into a border conflict. i don't think the us president will have an option but to respond if this does escalate much further. that is not where the us apparently wants to be, but its mishandling of the situation has manoeuvred it into that space precisely because it has not said to the israelis, this. and we are not going to continue to provide you the weapons to devastate gaza —— this will end. and without that, we were always on a knife edge and the reason, this could always have tipped over, itjust so happens and israeli provocation and i am not saying we have tipped it into all—out war, i don't think we are there, but we're much closer to the precipice than we have been previously. precipice than we have been previously-— precipice than we have been reviousl . ., ., ., previously. you also mentioned, daniel, previously. you also mentioned, daniel. that _ previously. you also mentioned, daniel, that iran _ previously. you also mentioned,
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daniel, that iran does _ previously. you also mentioned, daniel, that iran does not - previously. you also mentioned, daniel, that iran does not have l previously. you also mentioned, i daniel, that iran does not have the intention, or rather has the intention, or rather has the intention not to be brought directly this conflict. but it would appear that they are: —— directly into this conflict. it would appear i have lost my guest. let's just reconnect with daniel for a moment. i will hand that over to my communications team. in the meantime, dan arbell is with us. dan works with the center for israeli studies. also a former deputy chief of mission at the embassy of israel in washington, dc. i know you are listening to what daniel levy had to say and effectively saying that the us has not used its leveraged in placing those demands on mr netanyahu to de—escalate. i wonder if you could
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add to that. l de-escalate. i wonder if you could add to that-— add to that. i think the us has used, is using _ add to that. i think the us has used, is using its _ add to that. i think the us has used, is using its leveraged, l add to that. i think the us has i used, is using its leveraged, has used, is using its leveraged, has used its leveraged. for instance, just last week, the fact that israel increased the flow of humanitarian assistance into the gaza strip, the fact that it has allowed the us to raid a maritime humanitarian zone, to bring assistance into gaza. the fact israel has been redeploying its forces, taking its forces out of the city of khan younis and bringing more back to northern gaza and withdrawing from parts of northern gaza into israel. so we are seeing israel responding to us pressure. so israel responding to us pressure. so i wouldn't say that, i would counter argue that the us does have
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leveraged and that has been effective. the us perhaps is not using entirely all of its leverage and is not conditioned so far its arms transfers, providing arms and ammunition is to the idf yet. but again, it has made clear that if understanding is not reached between the us and israel over an operation in southern gaza in and around the city of rafah, the us may consider what weapons it will be providing to the israelis. and making it clear that the us is very unhappy with israel's intention to conduct an operation in rafah. so perhaps daniel levy would like to see more pressure or the us —— the us using more of its leverage. i certainly feel they have used its leverage and they do have, they do stand a chance to use more, stronger leveraged in the coming days and weeks. but i think that right now as we see the
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conflict widening and this iranian challenge and confrontation developing with iran, i think the us is focusing on that and their focus may shift on what is happening in gaza to what is happening with iran. dan, unconfirmed reports from the afp and the israeli army saying that sirens have been sounded in an israeli kibbutz near the lebanon border. we will wait for an update on that. we have been told locally speaking to a localjournalist in israel that the estimation was about two hours, if any of those iranian munitions did make their way as far as the israeli border. let mejust ask you very quickly. in terms of
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support for israel in the united states, you mentioned the arms transfers. is that a very tricky position for president biden? yes. position for president biden? yes, as our position for president biden? yes, as your correspondent _ position for president biden? ye: as your correspondent mentioned, this is an election year and of course, biden is under tremendous pressure from inside his party, from many democrats and supporters in the democratic party to exercise, project more toughness, have a more tough love approach towards israel. support israel, yes, but try and use more leveraged and perhaps also conditioning us support or us arms transfers to israel. so far, he has withstood that pressure and has not gone to conditioning us assistance. but that may change. but certainly, biden faces in an election year, a
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tough challenge from within his own party. and we have seen in the primaries that were held in michigan and minnesota in which disenchanted or disgruntled democrat voters of the democratic party have been staying away, sitting at home or abstaining in an election and saying that their position and they will sit out the national elections if biden continues in such an approach of embracing israel or supporting israel so strongly. so definitely, this biden administration has these political calculations which they need to consider when they devise their policy on israel.— need to consider when they devise their policy on israel. thank you so much for the _ their policy on israel. thank you so much for the time _ their policy on israel. thank you so much for the time you _ their policy on israel. thank you so much for the time you have - their policy on israel. thank you so much for the time you have given i their policy on israel. thank you so i much for the time you have given us, dan arbell, from the center for israeli studies and the former deputy chief of mission at the embassy of israel in washington, dc. very good evening to you, thank you. let's turn to our next guest.
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joining me now isjonathan conricus, a former international spokesperson of the israel defense forces. welcome to the programme, jonathan. thank you for having me. fik. welcome to the programme, jonathan. thank you for having me.— thank you for having me. 0k. as you understand — thank you for having me. 0k. as you understand it — thank you for having me. 0k. as you understand it and _ thank you for having me. 0k. as you understand it and your— thank you for having me. 0k. as you understand it and your experience i understand it and your experience and background, where our things from israel's point of view? melt. from israel's point of view? well, many things _ from israel's point of view? well, many things are _ from israel's point of view? well, many things are flying _ from israel's point of view? well, many things are flying in - from israel's point of view? well, many things are flying in the - from israel's point of view? well, many things are flying in the air l many things are flying in the air towards israel as we speak. the reports are more than 110 macro drones and cruise missiles that have been fired from western iran and with various different expected times of arrival into israel. and of course, israelair times of arrival into israel. and of course, israel air defences are busy taking out these incoming threats towards israeli territory. but what this really is i think is day one of a new middle east. iran really is
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masks off and for the first time after decades of attacking israel indirectly, iran is attacking israel directly for the first time in its history and of course, iran will face the consequences for this attack. it is still on clark —— unclear what the attack will result in, what type of casualties there will be in israel, what kind of damage there will be, if the iranians will damage —— attack us troops and if there will be international involvement, there are many variables here. but bottom line is i think what we can say to late is i think what we can say to late is this is day one of a new middle east, iran has for the first time attacked israel from sovereign iranian soil.— attacked israel from sovereign iranian soil. , iranian soil. interesting, the new middle east- _ iranian soil. interesting, the new middle east. has— iranian soil. interesting, the new middle east. has israel- iranian soil. interesting, the new middle east. has israel plannedl iranian soil. interesting, the new. middle east. has israel planned for what that would look like? imelt. middle east. has israel planned for what that would look like? well, to be frank, ithink— what that would look like? well, to be frank, i think israel— what that would look like? well, to be frank, i think israel is _ what that would look like? well, to be frank, i think israel is usually i be frank, i think israel is usually good at planning military contingencies. we don't always excel
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at the strategic and the longer strategic part. usually, the iranians are good planners and that's why i didn't believe that the iranians would do what they have just done to attack israel from sovereign iranian soil. because it will invite an israeli counter response and it may also drag other countries, specifically the us, into the conflict. and this can turn into a very wide thing. there are military contingencies for defending israeli sovereignty, israeli skies, israeli sovereignty, israeli skies, israeli targets. then of course, offensive contingencies for striking iran back. i also think that there are in this case a few plans in the draw that has been taken out, looking at the various targets in iran, specifically targets that are related to funding terror and arming the different terror organisations that iran is running across the
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middle east which are causing a lot of instability and violence, hamas and islamichhad in gaza, hezbollah in lebanon, various proxies in syria and of course, the houthis. many things are in play, it depends on the coming hours and how much damage will be done in israel and that will be a measuring stalk so to speak about how israel will retaliate. and of course, whether or not the iranians will also attack us troops in the middle east. l iranians will also attack us troops in the middle east.— in the middle east. i don't know if ou can in the middle east. i don't know if you can add _ in the middle east. i don't know if you can add to — in the middle east. i don't know if you can add to reports _ in the middle east. i don't know if you can add to reports that - in the middle east. i don't know if you can add to reports that there | you can add to reports that there have been sirens sounded near the border, the israeli lebanon border in an israeli kibbutz. can you tell us more or confirm it or deny it, what do you know? l us more or confirm it or deny it, what do you know?— us more or confirm it or deny it, what do you know? i can confirm that sirens have — what do you know? i can confirm that sirens have indeed _ what do you know? i can confirm that sirens have indeed been _ what do you know? i can confirm that sirens have indeed been sounded. . what do you know? i can confirm that| sirens have indeed been sounded. but for those who have missed bbc coverage of the last six months,
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that unfortunately is not a new thing in israel. israeli civilians are under constant rocket fire for the last six months from lebanon and from gaza and from syria and from yemen. so alarm sounding in israel sadly is not an unusual event and the rockets that we intercepted and the rockets that we intercepted and the projectiles we intercepted were from lebanon and we could perhaps write it off as routine warfare against hezbollah. these are not, as far as i understand, any of the incoming iranian drones that still have a few hours until they will impact or get close to israel if they are not intercepted. end they are not intercepted. and finall , they are not intercepted. and finally, jonathan, _ they are not intercepted. and finally, jonathan, obviously you worked at a very senior level, spokesperson for the idf. when are we likely to hear from spokesperson for the idf. when are we likely to hearfrom prime minister netanyahu? we likely to hear from prime minister netanyahu?- we likely to hear from prime minister netanyahu? well, he addressed _ minister netanyahu? well, he addressed the _ minister netanyahu? well, he addressed the israeli - minister netanyahu? well, he addressed the israeli public, l
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minister netanyahu? well, he - addressed the israeli public, which i think is the most important thing, in hebrew. and hopefully, we will see leadership, clarity of vision, calm, decisive decisions being made. and of course, together with very able senior israelis who are part of the cabinets, the defence minister yoav gallant and benny gantz are part of the cabinet and these are steady hands which i'm sure will assist the prime minister in making good decisions for israel's future. and i'm sure once there is a bit more clarity, there will also be public statements.— more clarity, there will also be public statements. thank you so much, jonathan _ public statements. thank you so much, jonathan conricus, - public statements. thank you so | much, jonathan conricus, former spokesperson for the israeli defense forces. thank you. let's cross now and speak to the former egyptian ambassador to germany, india and
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jordan. ambassador, thank you for joining us on bbc news. we are getting reports via reuters that the egyptian foreign ministry is calling for the most restraint to spare the region and its people from further factors of instability and tension, how serious is this for the region? well, since the beginning, we all warned of the escalation and enlargement of the confrontation to include iran, but the israelis do not hide even from the foreign secretary when he was visiting, the us foreign secretary, in the beginning of the conflict, after october 7th. beginning of the conflict, after october7th. dragging iran in beginning of the conflict, after october 7th. dragging iran in and even targeting hezbollah in particular, even before hamas. it was an israeli game since the beginning. and now when the situation was so clear that no end
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of this war in gaza by ending hamas or destroying hamas was awaiting for the current round of negotiations today in cairo. so the israelis have taken a very calculated step by attacking the iranian embassy in damascus so that they enlarge and pulling the iranian factor and dragging the americans to confront iran. i named the israelis didn't hide and i think the us foreign secretary has denied that —— and aim the israelis didn't hide. and they demanded to confront hezbollah. the israelis are very well aware that netanyahu's interest is not, like all the israelis, i think, netanyahu's interest is not, like all the israelis, ithink, his political interest and ambition is
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contradictory now with the israeli national interest. what is the reason to attack the iranian embassy, knowing that iran has the intention definitely to retaliate and to confront its public opinion with a response? so this is the response, which was earlier understood by the israelis before attacking the iranian embassy in damascus. i think the most important thing now is the egyptian decoration has said, the self constraint to allow the negotiation between the israelis and hamas and not to allow netanyahu to run into enlargement of the conflict, so they can drag the americans into a wave of violence or drag the region into a wave of violence that led to my understanding to a new violence that might allow netanyahu to stay in
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power for longer.— might allow netanyahu to stay in ower for loner. �* , ., power for longer. ambassador, i need to net a power for longer. ambassador, i need to get a second _ power for longer. ambassador, i need to get a second question _ power for longer. ambassador, i need to get a second question in. _ power for longer. ambassador, i need to get a second question in. we - power for longer. ambassador, i need to get a second question in. we havel to get a second question in. we have seen various countries closing their airspace or making various announcements. we are also now hearing from the egyptian government, the egyptian air defence has said that they are on alert from military and security sources. so egyptian air defence is on alert. we are also hearing from the egyptian general command that they are monitoring the situation to make the decision on their airspace. how important is this for egypt? what is their role in what is unfolding at their role in what is unfolding at the moment, very briefly? this their role in what is unfolding at the moment, very briefly? as all governments _ the moment, very briefly? as all governments of _ the moment, very briefly? as all governments of the _ the moment, very briefly? as all governments of the region - the moment, very briefly? as all governments of the region has i the moment, very briefly? as all| governments of the region has to protect, has to be vigilant, and to stand firm against any attempts to drag the region into more conflict. i think we have to pay attention to what i have said between the national israeli interest, which is
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in breach by netanyahu's ambition is to stay in power. in breach by netanyahu's ambition is to stay in power-— in breach by netanyahu's ambition is to stay in power. ambassador mohamed hiia , to stay in power. ambassador mohamed higazy. thank— to stay in power. ambassador mohamed higazy. thank you _ to stay in power. ambassador mohamed higazy. thank you very _ to stay in power. ambassador mohamed higazy, thank you very much _ to stay in power. ambassador mohamed higazy, thank you very much indeed - higazy, thank you very much indeed for that insight. you're watching bbc news. that is the skyline across tel aviv, as the country, israel was put on an alert this evening. very soon afterwards, we learnt that iran had lunched operation true promise in retaliation for the october 7th attack by israel —— had lunched. the attack by israel —— had lunched. the attack on a diplomatic compound in damascus. some drones we here have been shot down. stay with us here on bbc news. we have got more coming up on this developing story. i'm helena humphrey.
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glad you could join me. we start with breaking news. iran has launched an attack against israel. iran's revolutionary guard says it is targetting specific locations within israel with drones and missles. local israeli media are reporting the attack is expected to reach israel by 2am local time. the white house has said the strike could "unfold over a number of hours." this is a live look now at tel aviv. israeli forces have been put on high alert, with dozens of combat planes in the air. all israeli schools have been ordered to close. there are reports of sirens sounding in areas of the country.in an an address to the nation, the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, said defence systems were deployed and the armed forces were ready to respond in kind. he's advised israelis to listen to the directions of the military. neighbouring jordan has declared a state of emergency. lebanon and iraq have also
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closed their airspace. an official in the region also tells our partners at cbs news that

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