david: this is my kitchen table and also my filing system. over much of the past three decades i have been an investor.

the highest calling of mankind i've often thought is private equity. and then i started interviewing. i watched your interviews so i know how to do some interviewing. i learned in doing my interviews how leaders make it to the top. >> i asked him how much he wanted. i said fine. i did no due diligence. david: i have something i would like to sell. and how they stay there. you don't feel inadequate being only the second wealthiest man in the world. is that right? i am here with sheikh hamad bin jassim bin jaber al thani, who is the former prime minister of qatar. and we are in his home in doha. thank you for having us here. hamad: pleasure, david. david: for 20 years you were the foreign minister of qatar and for another six plus years you were simultaneously the prime minister. is it a pleasant situation or -- where you don't have to worry about all those problems anymore or did you love those jobs so much you wish you had them again? hamad: wish them again? no. history does not go back. the second thing is i think

every part of your life has if you know how to use it you will be excited in it. i used my life from the beginning when i was junior in the governments until i become minister and minister of foreign affairs, prime minister, deputy prime minister. it took me a journey of 30 years of working in the government. 32 years actually. and for me, i think and i believe that is more than enough. i believe now i have a new chapter. i don't believe in retirement. but i believe that every age, every time of your life there is something you can do and you can do it and add value in your life and around you. david: now you are spending a lot of time with your investment activities which are extensive around the world. hamad: i am doing that and i

have -- my father and i my own charity. which i'm involved in it and i am pleased with it. i built it since my father died. i think that is also for me is a very important part of my function or my life daily. especially with all the situation around us now in syria and turkey and you see this tragedy in other places. it gives me pleasure to work on that and to do with my team. yes, i am doing business all over the world. this is not only to do business but as i told you to be a fellow which can add value for yourself and your family. david: let's talk about when you were prime minister and foreign minister. you were also the chairman of the qatar investment authority. that can keep you pretty busy with all those jobs.

as the head of qatar investment authority you made some large investments for qatar. one of them is harrods, the department store in london. the famous shard building in london. investments in volkswagen and other things. those investments seem to have worked out ok. how do you manage being the foreign minister, the prime minister and the head of qia at the same time? doesn't that take a lot of time? hamad: i think it was tough for me because i was working with no weekend. i was working sincerely more than what i should do. if it is a candle, it would've been burned now completely. even on my vacation i was working and meeting people. you know me. we meet on my holiday and we see each other and we discuss business. it was tough but it was a

challenge because at that time we started qia with no money literally. we started with nothing, aiming that the gas will give us flow of money so we started with loans actually. most of these transaction has been done by loans from the banks. and thanks god the plan work. we get good revenue from the oil and gas. from the gas actually. oil, we have very little oil. that revenue all went to the investment authority. david: as we talk today, it has been rumored in the press that qia is looking to buy a very famous english soccer team called manchester united, so i don't know whether it will happen. are you surprised the interest in the middle east about the english premier soccer league? many countries seem to have investors that own teams. are you a big football fan yourself?

hamad: david, you know i am not football fan. we talked about this a few times. for me, i don't believe or i don't like this investment. maybe it will work well. some of my sons like this. they always discuss with me why we don't invest in these things. they are about pushing hard. for me, i thought this is not my specialty. let me put it like this. i am an investor. if one day, it's a good investment, i will think about it. but if not, i will not look at it as something just for an advertisement. i am not of that category. david: the world cup was an investment by your country and attracting people here. millions of people came. was that in the end do you think a good investment or not clear yet?

hamad: let me put it this way, you know me, i am always frank. if it was my choice, it would not be done at that time. when i was in the government, prime minister, and this idea come by his highness and his crown prince at that time, they know that i am against that idea because i think there is a lot of money and effort that can be spent on something else and it will be good for the people and the country. but if you ask me now, i will tell you there was a lot of outcome. positive outcome out of this. look at the people which visit qatar. i know most of them are from the business communities. people that are active all over the world. they came some of them first time and they are coming again. they are bringing their families. start working that people are saying there is a place, we did not see it. it is a good place. the outcome of that tournament

was positive from different way. good organized. well organized. despite all the noise, negative noise last 10 years which we hear about it. the outcome when we said no alcohol or the government decide no alcohol, people are thinking that is good. i can take my child. my girl can go along. nobody can talk to her. nobody can -- there is no one incident happened. organization was excellent. i think this is the first and the last one where you can see the matches in the same day and you don't miss any matches because of how close it is. it is unique for that. the outcome was good. for the country. ♪

david: let's talk about your country for a moment. the country is a very wealthy country. maybe the wealthiest country in the world per capita. where does the wealth of the country come from? hamad: the wealth of the country as you know came from oil and gas and mainly gas now. i think this is, you know -- we cannot say we contribute a lot. we contribute to take it out. doing the right decision with the right partner. but that's -- i don't think that is innovation. when you say how you get your wealth, if you are a country without any resources and you do well like switzerland, like japan, these countries have no resources, and right now, their

gdp is high and they are doing very well. but for us, the challenge will be with all this wealth what you are going to do with this wealth. how we can preserve it for the future. that is the challenge. david: when you were growing up this was not an extremely wealthy city, country. hamad: no, it was not wealthy city definitely. it was moderate. that time if you compare the 10 countries, rich countries, it is very strange. in the 1950's or 1960's, one is lebanon and egypt. not you, the american. not us on that list. and you see how things change. david: when i first came here 30 years ago there was only one building that was more than four or five stories. the hotel. hamad: that is true. david: now doha looks like manhattan except it is more modern than manhattan in many ways. it's stunning the example of what you can do with the wealth if you deploy it appropriately. all of these buildings, who is occupying these buildings? are these local people? are they oil companies?

who is occupying all the buildings and residences i see now? hamad: i think it is the same when you go to new york and you find oversupply in office and in commercial. i think we have oversupply now in the market. this was a good business for everybody. everybody was building either office or residential or retail, aiming that it would be rented by one of the companies because there was and still there is lots of work. right now i think the people have to study what is surplus and i think we have surplus in the offices and the retail. not maybe the residents. the residential part. but it need carefully for any investors to make his own calculation. i think now we are in oversupply and we have surplus which the effects start to be felt in the financial market.

david: when you were foreign minister, you were jetting around the world a fair bit trying to solve a lot of problems and you did solve a number of them. one that has not yet been resolved is the one you have worked on a lot. the palestinian issue. you have a very close relationship with many of the palestinian leaders. do you see any way in your lifetime or my lifetime there will be a resolution of that issue? hamad: my dream is to see this solved and see the the palestinians live with the israelis in peaceful country because both of them, they are talented people. the palestinian and the jew, they are talented people. one day i told them a joke. if they become united or work together, we should be scared of the both of them. in my opinion. but when? that needs leadership in both sides would like to take step. it is not leadership in america

to push them. we need a leader or facilitator -- the united states has to be the facilitator for that. and arabs to be part of this. but it need two leaders and they are not there at the moment from the palestinian side and from the israeli side. we need another rabin from the israeli inside. from the palestinian side maybe he did what he did. i don't want to evaluate the guy. he is a friend and i know him. but i think we need to see new leadership which have commitment from the palestinian side. i don't believe to solve the problem to do abraham things. this is a kind of -- i'm sorry to say this word. i think this is childish. because we are talking about normalization. we have no problems with the

israelis to normalize the situation. we talk with the israelis daily when i was in my office. they was having office here. even when we shut the office, we were talking to them from the intelligence to the foreign ministers to prime minister. and we can talk to them. but to do kind of -- build a new idea with no vision or no target, peace target, not just to talk. it is too early to do all this unless you have a plan what to do. because what i am worried is in within -- within 10 years if there is nothing happened or maybe before that we find ourselves in another intifadah, on the palestinian side, we will find the arabs here, saying what you are doing as a government. david: the abraham accords have

not been signed by qatar yet, or maybe they won't. you say that is not likely because you say that is not going to solve the problems that are important. hamad: maybe our government will sign it one day. i don't know. i am not part of the government. in my opinion, tell me what we will gain from this. the relationship? we have a relationship. everybody has a relationship with the israelis. all these countries they have a relation with israel. we don't need that. we need all of us to talk to the israelis and tell them we will do normalized business. we will do embassies like in the arab plan which king abdullah said. even better than that. but let us sit and try to find a solution on the ground. david: many people in the west were surprised when there was a dispute between saudi arabia and uae and qatar a few years ago. it is now resolved.

the essence of that dispute was never that clear to people but do you think that is now way behind the countries and that is not going to come back again? hamad: it is way behind. come back or not come back, i don't know, but i wish not. i think everybody learned his part of that conflict and learned where is the red line for each country. they know our red line. we know their red line. i think that is important to know. what is good now is there is a good momentum. i want this momentum to be reflective in the gcc. the gcc is dead. since 2012, 2013, even when i was a foreign minister, the gcc was dead last 12, 13 years. we only use the gcc when there is a military crisis or we need to take a decision. you ask us to take a decision in

the region and need to be under the name of the gcc. i want the gcc to be more affected in the life of the people so they feel they have benefit from this unity between the gcc. the gcc is not there. david: are you worried about iran? many countries in the arab world are worried about iran. but iran was somewhat faithful to you when you had your dispute with saudi arabia. is iran not as big a concern for you as saudi arabia? hamad: the first fear for me is not iran. the first fear is us in the region. how we behave. i mean the leader. i'm not one of them. i think if we can control our happiness and our frustration and when we are angry to put it as a statement in box and say ok, we work. we have some difference with x country or that.

but this difference has to be discussed in a civilized way. and also to look, ok, if we have challenges and if we agree iran is our first enemy, how we can deal with this matter. are we going to deal with it through direct negotiation? through war? which nobody want war because that is not in our benefit. the problem that this decision is not with us because we are not in the position at the moment because of what i said about the gcc. to take that leadership for our region and say we have a problem with iran, we sit with it and discuss it frankly and reach a solution because i believe we should leave the gulf area in harmony between iran, iraq and the gcc countries.

if we can do that, i think this is a big achievement not only for the peace, for trade, the business, the economy. they have over 100 million people. iraq have like 40 million people. we have like 50 million people. we are talking about 200 million, 250 million people. rich country with oil. imagine what we can do. david: you and the amir retired at the same time. was it hard to give up that much power? hamad: if someone goes and takes me back, i don't want to do what i was doing. it's done, it's enough. ♪ david: when you were foreign minister for 20 years or so, you dealt with a lot of great leaders i assume around the world. where there one or two memorable to you who you said this person is an extra ordinary leader and

i really learned a lot from that person? hamad: there are many leaders i met in my life from japan, china, the united states. i see all of them. i saw all the head of state of all of them. but to have a person -- there is a few guys which i met and either you are impressed by how they are clever or how they can manage. i want to put it in a manage position. i think one of them is the king of saudi arabia. he can manage the situation internally and externally in a way, good. do i agree with all his policies? no. he does not also agree with all of our policies but i think he is one of the leaders. the leader which i respect for his country or what he is doing in term of arafat and how he

handled the situation with israeli, that is almost like a movie. it need a big -- a series of movies how he dealt with every problem with the israelis because i was part of that with him and how he maneuvered through the things. i don't agree with all he do but he was doing it. the king of morocco, also a guy which i respect a lot as a leader in the arab world. ♪ david: in the united states you met with a number of president. i guess president clinton. hamad: george bush the father until i know biden and i know even trump, so i know all of

them. david: did you ever have a hard time getting to see a u.s. president? you said you were coming to washington. hamad: it depends. it depends. sometimes if they are upset with us it is hard. sometimes if they are not upset, i see them in the white house. that happens when al jazeera is part of the problem. i have to say the best relationship we had at that time was president clinton and he is a great guy. he is a great guy. how he can manage situation. david: when you were foreign minister and prime minister, i sometimes would come to talk to you about investment matters. i would see other well-known investment people. hamad: before i am prime minister and before i was foreign investment, we was doing private as a private client with you. david: that is right. how do you juggle -- you have a prime minister coming to see you, a foreign minister, an investment person.

you have to change your brain for all these people coming in. you must be working seven days a week to do all that. hamad: for me, it was tough. but i was used to work for long hours. it was not -- in the end, last two years, i felt inside that i hate the job. i just want to leave. this is maybe i say it late in some programs i was adjusting to the amir two years before we left together that i want to leave. david: you and the amir retired at more or less the same time. hamad: exactly. david: very often it is hard to give up power voluntarily. people lose elections but here they don't have elections. you voluntarily decided to step back from that position. was it hard to give up that much power and you are happier now than you were then?

hamad: i am happier, definitely. this is sincere of somebody who go and take me back, i don't want to do what i was doing. it is done. it is enough. i did what i did. right, wrong, i did it. i think i did more right things than wrong things. but also, i did things in the space of time, very short time. i did a lot of things. achievement. i think which i am happy. for me, the world now so slow, i will not be part. i cannot see myself to go and do that. david: if somebody is watching and they say i don't know much about qatar, what would you say you would want people to know about your country? hamad: i think our culture is something that needs to be seen. people, what they know about us, they know about oil and gas. or, they know about our camels. we are proud about camels.

we are also happy about the gas. but they have to see this guy which owns the camel and the oil and gas. is he capable? is he do well with what he has? that is the proof you can see in front of you. david: you can see your incredible career in business, investments, diplomacy. what would you like your legacy to be or is your legacy going to be your children? hamad: first, i want to be seen as a human being. a qatar human being. i'm proud of this country. my country. more than what anybody think. i am so attached. i'm traveling a lot now but i am attached to this thing so i am proud i am qatari. one of my legacy is my charity which i am building it very rapidly. that is something i need to leave for my children. the third thing is i need my children to work together and that it's very difficult. i need to set an example for the

families in qatar and other regions how the children, despite their different education, different ideas, how they can work together as one unity. that is a big challenge for me. ♪

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