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of the inclusive fashion brand good american which she launched in 2016 with khloe kardashian. she's also the founding partner of shape where label skins alongside chloe's sister kim. >> as a young, black female entrepreneur the only thing i could do with what i know from my experience the honest truth is i didn't set out to the company that was deeply rooted in the principles of inclusivity and diversity. i set out to make a company that was right for me. i speak to her about her rise to the top, how she measures success and why diversity remains elusive in the world fasten -- fashion. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> you represent so much for so many people. all the businesses he touched turned to gold. did you ever think that you would be such a success? >> now and that's mostly because

most of the businesses that i touched early in the days didn't turn to gold. i love this idea of like overnight success and i feel like have got to continue to perpetuate that myth but i've just done a lot and it has been a lot of trial and error along the way and i feel like i only done every job imaginable from having a paper route when i was 12 to working in a deli to working in shops to starting things that were less successful to starting things that had medium success. it has been a long journey and i'm really thankful that now i'm 41 years old and i'm starting to see this type of success which is really great. francine: but you were always starting the journey and you always wanted to succeed. is that what actually makes you a success? emma: i think so. i also think there is an element of luck in any of the things that when you take apart what that means i really believe that when opportunity meets preparation, i was always prepared. and when my opportunity came

along, i was ready to really work for it. and then there is that old adage of a lot of hard work, and i've really put the time in, i think. francine: did you always want to be an entrepreneur? emma: no, i never knew what an untrue manure was. i came from east london and i didn't know anyone who had their own business. everyone that i knew went to work to pay their bills with very little joy in it. even the idea of doing something that felt purposeful or meaningful, something you enjoyed wasn't really part of my understanding. i tried really hard to get close to what it is that i love, which is the fashion business. i didn't ever think about starting my own thing. i think it came out of necessity. i was like, who is going to employ me and pay me what i think i deserve? and i left the company because i'm like, they are just not paying you properly. francine: h 24 and there was a determination of actually making something. emma: do you know what it was? i felt like i was adding a lot

of value and i think so many people through their careers have this feeling. i'm adding a lot of value and i'm not being renewed for what i bring to the table. and that feeling became so strong in me. but what did you do? you don't really have that many options. i went to a company and tried to do my best at the position that i was even, and thankfully somebody saw that and decided ok, maybe we will set this girl up on her own. but i talked to so many young people that i employ or people who are trying to get noticed and i think that is such amazingly good advice because no one is ever going to look at you to do the next thing unless you are excelling where you are today. sometimes just buckling down it doing the absolute fast -- best wherever you are is the way to get ahead. >> you have to be brave and it is not always easy. emma: it wasn't always easy. i remember the first time that i got a little bit of packing and they said to me you are going to be in charge of your own p&l and

they said fantastic, i went home and i googled it. sometimes naivety is the best thing for any entrepreneur. i didn't know what i know and that i had to just kind of go for it and learn fast throughout my career, i haven't made the best choices every time, but i think part of being a good entrepreneur is knowing when things are not going right and knowing what you don't know. and i surrounded myself with the right people continuously. francine: what is the biggest mistake you've learned from? emma: the biggest mistake was probably when i had my first agency and i was killing it in london so there is this idea that the company was completely exportable and i went to the u.s., open an office in new york and it went really well and that i opened in l.a. and i failed miserably. under invested, it didn't bring the right people in. just thought that whatever i was doing would translate and it didn't and i learned that i started -- starting something, dragging people there and having

to close it. there is nothing like it of embarrassment to humble the soul. literally had to pack my own office backup so that was fantastic learning but i never let it break my spirit. i truly took the learnings and when i started my second company in l.a. i was like ok, this is where i need to do something different, so i literally packed up my family and went and moved to l.a. and that if i was going to do something that was going to be successful i need to do it myself, i need to give my absolute all. francine: is that giving it time to understand the market? emma: being in country, being part of the fabric of that culture has been really important. it really is that what is happening at the moment. where are we with society as women, where is fashion? francine: that is a really

pulled move, selling denim to americans. emma: it really was, nobody needs more bluejeans. i doubted myself when we started that come into a business with mission and purpose at the heart of what we do is what sets us apart. there are so many brands that how do consumers make choices these days? right now we make our choices based on what we believe in, what we want our children to see. i'm a mother of four so i know only too well that i don't want my daughters wasting time thinking about how much they weigh, what they look like. i think fashion has done a terrible job reinforcing a really unrealistic beauty idea. so the whole premise of the brand was to say we are going to make clothes for all women, we are going to let women make their choices and hopefully we are going to take some of the pain out of what it means to be left out of the conversation or not represented in fashion. and we've done that pretty well i think. francine: you have this idea of

inclusivity, of making women feel good. who do you talk about with it first? emma: funny enough, my husband because we are both entrepreneurs. it is natural for me to back any idea backward and forward with him. i've been part of the problem. it's like i've seen firsthand how some fashion businesses make women feel and i think there is one thing and being really vocal and being an instagram activist, there is a difference between putting your money where your mouth is and really trying to do something about the problem. it was about how do i take everything that i know and that i've learned and actually do the opposite after mark as a young, black female entrepreneur the only thing i could do was what i know from my experience. the honest truth is i didn't set out to create a company that was deeply rooted in the principles of inclusivity and diversity. i set out to make a company that was right for me and my friends and i knew that if i had a problem, chances are somebody

else does. i think that is where so many businesses are created. when you're solving a problem that is real for you and therefore real for the consumer. francine:francine: is there a danger that some entrepreneurs look at numbers too much, look for a gap in the market? emma: it is very true and i think that is one way to approach things. for me, i go with my gut and my gut instinct tells me a lot and i tend not to go against it. i would be lying if i said i didn't run some numbers of the there was commercial opportunity here. nobody makes 19 sizes of anything without feeling i reckon i can sell them somewhere along the line but i definitely think so much more of what i've done throughout my career has been in response to a feeling that had and then acting on that feeling. francine: were you surprised how many other people felt like you? emma: yeah, honestly. it is one of the things that on paper good american has been such a massive success.

nine i was the hero, but 11:00 i had no stock left in everyone's life, you have no idea what you are doing. in a way that was my first experience of what it means to be excellent because i just started emailing people and i was like, how long do i think people will wait? turns out, not that long. i was like, can you help me get some more fabric? will you wait eight weeks for a pair of jeans? i think what people respond to is brand that have authenticity and there is a level of honesty that is needed. i went and said you know what, we have no idea how popular and how much this was going to charm with customers and if you could just be patient we are going to get you something turns out we know we messed up and we don't want to disappoint you. there is a part of that honesty that actually really turns with people. it was clearly not written by pr because i couldn't afford pr at that point. francine: and reassigning,?

-- were you signing emma? emma: i was. francine: coming up, her attempts to break taboos in fashion and how success is making her reassess what it means to be an entrepreneur. meet ron. ron eats, sleeps and breathes hoops. and there's not a no look pass, double double, or buzzer beater he won't wax poetic on. ad nauseam. but oh how he can nail a software solution like the best high screen pick and roll you've ever seen. you need ron. ron needs a retirement plan. work with principal so we can help you help ron with a retirement and benefits plan that's right for him. let our expertise round out yours.

francine: emma grede has made a fortune by finding clothing companies. it made $1 million in sales on its first day. she told me about her success and the challenges that remain across the industry. as fashion done -- i mean, it hasn't been enough when it comes to inclusive the diversity, but hasn't done something in the last five to 10 years? emma: it's interesting because fashion, as quick as it is to change in the kind of aesthetic, it is very difficult to change a system. and i think that that comes down

to who makes decisions. and the people that make decisions in fashion don't typically look like me. they aren't typically women all the time. when you look at who is at the helm of the biggest high street players, it tends to be the same type of people. so i honestly think there's a lot of work to be done. progress has definitely happened but you only have to look at the last new york fashion week which is the biggest and the most commercial to see that there is so much tokenism around what inclusivity really means. when it comes to science we are back where we were 20 or 30 years ago when you would have one single black model that would walk down the catwalk. now we are in that same situation where i can't remember the stat but i think it is less than 3% of model that came down the catwalk were above a size 12. size 12 is less than average so there is just so much work to be done and it almost is the last allowed taboos. we are allowed to disclose people because of their size and it is really crazy.

francine:francine: i was reading something that said people feel a bit rubbish when they look at all this thought because they don't feel represented and they feel there is something wrong with the. and that is emma: the whole reason i started the brand. seven years ago i was pregnant with my second child, a girl, and everyday felt that deeply, like how much time and effort you can spend and waste time. to me, if you take out some of that worrying and the strife around how much we think about our looks and instead put our energy into i need a pay raise, i think i should be doing something else of my life, part of it is what happens if you shift and change the paradigm of how people see themselves? it is a bit trite sentence but representation will be matters. when you see a version of yourself in something, there is a level of acceptance and that is what i wanted to do, just level the playing field and say we all are different, and that is ok. that is not what we should be thinking about.

we should be thinking about equal pay. there are the things that we should use our time for us women. let's just get you quality going with men and that throughout the work is, throughout all of the industries, honestly i feel like the media is such a huge impact on us. and i don't mean just fashion media, i mean the media at large we need to see better representation everywhere. francine: is that why you're doing dragon stand? -- dragon's den? emma: you asked me earlier thought about being an entrepreneur and i honestly never thought about being an entrepreneur but they talk about it being really small at the top and it is not small at the top. it is minuscule. the same people doing the same deals, giving each other money who went to one of five or six schools. so for me, because i'm on shark tank in the u.s. and the idea that you could be in under the door with seemingly very little

background and absolutely no access to on the and walk on and get a check to start to do something that means something to enter mean something for your family, i'm like, why wouldn't you? it wasn't so long ago that i was out fundraising. if i could be a small part of somebody's journey that would usually get the opportunity, it is not just about women of color. if you didn't have the means or the education to know anything differently than getting up and going to work everyday, that doesn't need to say you can't have a successful business. to me, it is like leveling the playing field and i love the idea about the scene on the people heading that idea that they can be successful if they just get an opportunity. francine: is entrepreneurship in the u.k. different from the u.s.? in the u.s. there is almost a badge upon her. is there a statement in the u.k.? emma: i don't think they are

less bold, i think that we are different here, we don't celebrate it in the same way, and i find that bully difficult to say because i like i'm so celebrating. people in london are so nice to be. i turned up in this office and two girls are like, i love you, soy think things are shifting. i am all about celebrating people. it doesn't all worked out, for that is also part of life. we just have to be a little more honest with ourselves about what it takes and how hard it is. francine: it is hard because you need to build a team around you, you need funding. there is a little bit of luck. what have you found hardest? emma: if i'm really honest probably the funding piece because without the right background and circles around you, access is really difficult. i raised my first check from my clients because i built a business in fashion media. so i had lots of clients. so the only rich people i knew

were clients of mine who had been paying the retainers so that was for me the easiest way. i was like remember me, would you like to get me $3 million? most of them said no but i couple said yes. so i think just knowing where to go in the beginning, they are the barriers that most people face. once you are in it, i think it is also much about the journey. none of the stuff happens like a dozen social media, and i think just knowing that you are on a journey, and actually, i honestly think the best way to start a business is with no money. you don't need to go out and raise tons of finances. you need to find out what i my uniquely good at? when you figure out what you are good at, you know who else you need around you to make something of the work. emma: kris jenner was part of your journey. emma: very much so. francine: how did that shape the entrepreneur you are? emma: i've been really lucky to be surrounded by so many incredible entrepreneurs,

starting with my clients, also my husband, kris, and also just having access and listening and watching some brilliant people as i grew up, even on the tv, really soaking it up. and i am one of the people they can learn from anything. i've read books about being an entrepreneur before i even really knew what one was. i will take from any situation that you let me. francine: coming, why diversity is a superpower and what she is doing to try to improve access and opportunity. and opportunity. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs the chase ink card made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids see that. and they believe they can do the same. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the chase ink business unlimited card.

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francine: emma grede is perhaps asked known for the founding partner of skins. i continue the conversation by asking her about the business and her commitment to supporting diversity and black-owned companies. francine: skims is also huge. did you ever think -- what do you call it, and underwear-shipping company? emma: we make underwear, solutionwear. it has grown so unbelievably and that is can kardashian's company, it was her idea from the outset. i honestly believe that we never thought that it would just be one thing. we always thought about it as being this huge company that we do lots of things well, again, that company was based on just doing one product really, really

well and i think that is testament to any great company. we had so much focus in the beginning. here is what we are going to do, we are going to make superior shapewear and everything the size and color. emma: when is the right time to either grow or go into a slightly different branch? emma: it is so interesting because in good american, the first time we ever thought of going into another category was because customers access to it. -- asked us to. you really have to listen, and you can't take that commentary of just the good things because your customers will tell you what you need to your and they will also tell you what you don't want to hear. it is like a big fat mirror. that is one of the things with social media, it is just a reflection of everything you are doing, a reflection of your consumer base and if you are listening carefully enough, the data will tell you things and all you need to do is tune into that.

when i think about category expansion it really is in regards to or in relation to really what customers are asking me for, and we make those decisions based on that. emma: how do you build a team that can also say no, this isnot a great idea? emma: that is a great question. i think i spend about 25% of my time hiring and i will take speculative even if i don't have a position that is available because you are only as good as your team, and to do what i do you have to surround yourself with experts, people that are really, really good at what they do. and part of that is being able to stand up to you and you being able to listen. when i think about myself as a leader, i really lead with empathy because i need people to be able to say to me that is a bad idea or based on my experience because my experience is limited. francine: do you think it is different being a leader in 2024 that it was in 2004? emma: 100% because the workforce

has changed immeasurably. if we think post-pandemic, also the generation we are dealing with right now, it is entirely different and you have to really company that can exceed with the workforce that it has edits to those. francine: younger? emma: younger people have a different expectation of their life and their work and how those things fit together, and like it or not, covid changed the working environment forever. you either adapt or you die. i might have a certain opinion about how i want people to come into a space, into a business, but at the end of the day you got to work with for the culture is at and i am not here to fight the culture. it is what it is, how do we work to maximize this? at the end of the day we all want the same thing. francine: how do you spot a good entrepreneur? how do you decide whether you are all in? emma: i am so personality-driven. a good idea is a good idea but if i meet someone that just does

something to me, i feel it immediately. francine: fire in the valley, how would you describe it? francine: sometimes that mad passion. i can get excited about an origami company. i'm that person and i respond to that because that's who i am but i also believe respond to the fact that sometimes seeing a bit of yourself, knowing that someone hasn't got another opportunity or a chance, i'm like, i will have a go at you. francine: what is emma grede going to do in five years? emma: i don't know, lie down? take a break? it's true, i will find something else. i really focus on a lot of my nonprofit status. on the chairwoman of incredible organization called the 50% pledge which is really focused on creating some semblance of balance in the world of black-owned businesses, figuring out how they can show up in retail with more balance and i

honestly believe that any way that i can use my voice, use my influence and use the knowledge that i've built over all this time for good is a good use of my energy. francine: why is it so underfunded still? emma: it is about access. talent is fairly evenly distributed. opportunity isn't. what we need is to give more people opportunity regardless of education, background, age, all the things. it is about leveling the playing field. we come back to that same idea, who gets to make decisions? so i really believe that the more we can open that up, the better it is for everybody. and i've proven that diversity is actually a superpower. the more people you have at the table, the more customers you can serve, it is just good business. it is not about giving somebody an opportunity that doesn't deserve it, it is about being able to service as you can and the more minds that you have

around the table that reflect your customer base, the better. francine: thank you so much for being here.

>> this is the next big risk. it is the job of a financial executive to tackle at the unknowns geopolitical tensions are rising across the globe as conflict engulfs countries in the middle east and europe and in certain builds around taiwan and china. investors are also uncertain about the state of the economy

and a