card number in the moment because the systems were down and they were trying to head off this real threat. >> amazing. good to be with you. >> thank you. nice to be here. >> good to have you with us. >> the dow down 226 points right now. thanks for watching "power lunch." >> "closing bell" begins right now. welcome to "closing bell." i'm scott wapner live from post nine at the new york stock exchange. the make or break hour begins with the tension between rates and stocks and what happens to the rally if yields keep rising even for the alleged right reasons the strong economy. we'll ask our experts over this final stretch including pimco's erin brown who reveals her playbook in a few moments. take a look at the scorecard with 60 minutes to go in regulation. a battle much of this day as elevated yields capped the market once again a stronger than expected retail sales report. the dollar catching a bid on the

heightened tensions in the middle east. gold and oil are both lower. and two stocks standouts from the dow to highlight. goldman, a nice winner after its earnings and salesforce selling off sharply on a report of another possible acquisition. it does take us to our talk of the tape. how much are stocks currently at risk and will earnings save the day for the rally? let's ask our panel. dan greenhouse at solis alternative asset management and both with me at post nine. good to see you. lauren, i begin with you, feels like all of a sudden everybody is cautious. midday headline sent stocks to the lows of the day. israel's military chief of staff says they will be a response to the iran attack. btig talking about downside potential, i have rbc on the rising risks. even bull ed yardeni talks about a stall. and renaissance macro says we're not oversold enough and more downside ahead. what do i make? >> i think the reality for the markets is we're not going to

see a sustained down turn in the u.s. equity market until we have an earnings problem, which we do not have, and the labor market cracks which is not happening right now. i anticipate the jitters we're seeing are a result of valuations are high and a lot of unde uncertainty. that's been true for months. >> so? that's a reality check that yes, risk has been introduced and any time there's geopolitical risk especially in that region you get a little bit nervous. the market, the rally went up a lot, you know, tax day is today, the selling last week due to that, jpmorgan says they're still bullish and here's why and plays into what lauren is talking about and why we need to debate it. we don't think the rapid reprising in the fed's rate cut expectations changes our bullish view. as above trend gdp growth still supports corporate earnings. >> yeah. listen, i think that's exactly right and just to tie this together, the right reasons is

the important adjective. >> that's why i put that there. why are they rising? >> you have the strong retail sales. you need to look no further than the kuv itself. at the short end of the curve rates are up 2, 34 basis points, maybe at the longer end of the curve up 10 basis points. some of is that positioning, some of that is going to be worries about oil and some of that is going to be the strong retail sales report and the idea that economy continues to do well in the quarter which corresponds to higher or better earnings prospects, certainly better than what the consensus is right now, looking for right now, and when you put that together, assuming the economy to lauren's point doesn't roll over or something tragic happens that we don't know about, the bias remains to the upside in the medium term, even if we need to consolidate into doesn't matter that earnings growth expectations have come down so substantially, where it was, you know, close to 10% and then it was down to 7% at the beginning of the year and now we're under 3% for earnings growth expectations. does that matter at all?

>> it appears not to matter a whole lot in terms of the pricing of the market today. it's something we've been pointing out for months that earnings expectations over the course of this year are high. what we've been seeing in the u.s. economy, there's so much resilience and when looking at q1, what we're in the process of unveiling, there's still a lot of optimism we expect 2% earnings growth, 3% revenue growth this quarter. that's a pretty meaningful tailwind for the market. to dan's point doesn't mean weigh can't see moments of consolidation. one of our high conviction calls there hasn't been quite enough term premium on long-term bonds. it's an area where with considering the inflation and growth volatility in the market not to mention supply and demand, that we expect to see a little bit more volatility, not surprising that we would see a couple days of volatility as a result. >> part of the issue, too, isn't it that you have come here and a large part because of multiple expansion, now it's time to put

up or shut up. earnings have to justify where put. s have gone to. you can't rely on valuations and multiples to take stocks higher. maybe you can. >> you can when you're at 12 or 13 times earnings, but not at 20 times. it gets tougher. but this has been the conversation we've been laying for the better part of a year or two and the better part of 20 years. the number of times people have said it's earnings growth from here on out, i would have a million dollars for every time someone said something like that. look in the q4 of last year, i'm sorry through the first quarter of this year, 9 to 7 to 6 to 3 to wherever we currently are call it 3% eps growth and the stock market up 20, 25%. it's made no difference that earnings expect taations have c down. it's been a strong rally and expect us to consolidate like around 5,000, but in a positive take on things the fact that

earnings expectations have come down sets the stage for a lower hurdle for which stocks to be and they probably will. >> the only variable now that you have to add in rates are backing up, which is why it matters even more that earnings justify the move. you could say well, you could have multiple expansion if earnings are just eh, but rates are coming down so that plays into the story. i would make a case for that and it's harder. >> there's a couple important things we can take away from this balance. first of all what this says to me is that the market probably isn't going to tolerate much conversation around rate hikes without a broader market event including a tightening of credit conditions and broader financial conditions which includes the equity market and so when we talk about this activity seems to be reaffirming in the u.s. should there be a rate hike on the table the bar for a rate hike is really, really high. >> when the talk continues to be

about cuts just pushed further back than we once thought they would be. you have to figure the bar is really, really high for another cut. >> i think those of us that follow -- >> a hike excuse me. >> that's right. those of us that fol the fed are in agreement they sound like a group that doesn't want to hike rates anymore and would rather leave rates up at an elevated level. >> they want to cut rates badly because they don't want to ruin the story that they're able to tell, right. they got us further than most people thought they would in terms of, you know, landing this thing okay. they don't want to wreck it now. >> it's true but also the fact that i think this is why my over-under for the year they really i think in the back rooms, the smoke filled -- does anyone smoke anymore -- where the decisions are made do they feel likegetting one cut in, assuming the economy is gliding to where they think it is, getting one cut in far away from the election insulates them somewhat? they would agree is a group --

>> if not june maybe july. >> i still think they want something in the summer. >> still have two? >> i think the fed wants to cut so badly, and therefore, you know, lots of reasons, but i think the most important of them are as follows, first, floating rate credit starting to have trouble and the signal that just moving from a plateau to a cutting cycle even if that cutting cycle takes years is so important in terms of the extent that floating rate credit has to do. also importantly the curve is still inverted an that's a dynamic where it's so difficult for banks to be reliably profitable when it comes to interest income. it's a very challenging lending environment and that constrains the real economy. the fed would like to back off of that area of restrictiveness and i think they're going to try to cut. >> do you want to be negative in the face of that backdrop? >> we know the backdrop is what it is. >> yeah. >> going to cut just a matter of

when barring a major -- >> things would have to -- >> surprise from here from inflation re-acceleration. >> things would have to -- that's right. that's why this immigration story, which i don't think has gotten too much attention on the network, it's a bit esoteric, the economics profession, the fed and sell side economists have latched so hard on to the immigration story as being a silver bullet, per se, bought powerful variable. it gives them scope for reducing the level of restrictiveness understanding that labor market doesn't have to weaken as much as they thought. >> the only thing that would upset the bullish narrative from here, as lauren said and adam parker writes, the most significant challenge to that outlook, at least in the near term is tightening financial conditions that would cause a market selloff. we can agree that if you had a sudden tightening of financial conditions through the credit market, not necessarily the equity market, spreads are tight, not seeing that now, but that would be a potential game changer. >> i think so. one thing i want to point out

market financial conditions are credit and equity prices. it comes down to why would financial conditions meaningfully tighten. that's all about growth, earnings coming in, meaningfully under expectations, turning negative, or the labor market starting to crack. until we see meaningful signs of those things, any sort of consolidation i think is a buy from an equity market perspective. >> the blood flow of the economy can do just fine if the stock market has a correction, for example. >> of course. >> it gets a little bit harder for it to flow if you have much tighter credit. >> that's right. listen right now credit is largely wide open. investment grade spreads are sub-100 which for viewers are super tight, depending on your index down around 300 for viewers who aren't familiar that's super tight. there's really -- i mean refinancing is wide open, maturity walls pushed out. very little evidence, if any

evidence, in the credit markets that something is awry and, in fact, when you look at the lending standards data the nucleus of all of this, that's starting to ease. banks are starting to ease up on the brake a little bit which is going to help reaccelerate things. to answer your question yes, that's a powerful tailwind. >> let's bring in erin browne on what that firm is thinking about. welcome back. >> thank you. >> last time you were on you were bullish. do you remain so? >> i do. i think the -- like the panelists before me stated i think that we're still in a cyclical recovery in the u.s. economy in particular to some extent the global economy as well, all of which is under pinning a robust earnings environment for stocks and i do think that ultimately that's going to be what drives stocks higher from here. i do think, though, that the last two trading days did underscore two points which are important. first, rates are moving higher. we've seen a 45 basis points

back up in the 10-year yield over the last month or so, and so what that does is, you know, those who were, you know, calling for getting back into lalgds laggards, buying the small caps over large caps in a rotation in the market, i think are likely going to be disappointed. they have been disappointed over the last couple weeks. and i think that is likely here to stay. the fed is likely not going to cut rates until the back half of this year and i would take the under in terms of what the market is pricing in currently and what that means is that small caps and those companies that are really leveraged to ease credit are likely to be disappointed. the second point is you are starting to see a broadening out of participation in the will be for equity market and more industrial cyclical economies that have leverage to inflation, i think that's, you know, a really interesting spot for the

market. >> what i hear you saying is you can still be bullish, but you can't express it perhaps as broadly as you once thought you might be able to do? >> well, i think that you can start to express it more broadly across cyclical parts of the economy, but you want to stay large and liquidi and up in quality and avoid the smaller cap laggards that have underperformed over the last year or so. >> you mean the broadening story can continue, not with the russell participating? >> exactly. not with the russell and certain segments of the market, but i think you want to start expanding your exposure to industrials, to metal, to some extent energy if you haven't already, that are going to be advantaged by the manufacturing cyclical uptick we're starting to see not just here in the u.s. but on a global basis. over the last year -- >> i'm sorry. finish your thought. i apologize. >> i was going to say over the last year you wanted to be in tech and tech only.

now you can start to expand that lens outward but focusing on the large caps. >> i was going to say, even with energy and materials already up, you know, quite a lot, that trade has worked in large part on just the whole story coming in to focus. now if we're rethinking things, those kind of stocks moved too fast? >> i think there's two things. first you're seeing inflation tick up on the u.s. second you're seeing manufacturing surveys tick up in the u.s. but also globally, and then you really haven't seen any participation from the global stage in terms of commodity demand, particularly out of china, over the last year or so, and you're now starting to see slowly that begin to turn as well. i think that that trade does have legs over the medium term. >> yeah. and so i would add to your point something i've been discussing with scott. i would largely just want to echo what you were saying, which is this narrative that in order

for the rally to broaden, it's got to be exposed or expressed in the russell 2000 is an idea with which i totally disagree and you see it within the s&p 500 and certainly in the mid cap space as well and no better example than scott alluded to, energy, a name that lagged, big tech, cap tech is running into trouble but look at the refiners and integrated, even the other riskier sectors, energy has done well. if you're looking for evidence of broadening, i'm not saying you said this, but why isn't energy sufficient evidence for that broadening? >> yes. i would absolutely agree with that. i'm still keeping long my large cap tech names. i like the ai trade. i still like things that are levered to large cap tech. but where i'm buying right now is more on the sort of industrial cyclical sectors.

>> is that where you think, aaron, that earnings are really the rubber is going to meet the road once the large cap tech companies start to report and give the market all of the signals as to why they've worked from a year ago until now? they've been able to be offensive and defensive and if people get more defensive, in the here and now, it's yet another reason why those stocks may continue to work? >> i think that's right. first of all, they are defensive. they have large cash piles they're sitting on and invest and deploy that capital, which they're not required on the market broadly for financing. that insulates you a little bit from the rate move versus the small cap tech names which are leveraged to rates. second they're able to grow in absence of strong gdp growth and they are -- the growth somewhat in the overall economy but there's a strong secular growth trend underpinning what i see

is, you know, increasing quarter over quarter earnings growth, and so i think you have strong growth, a defensive sector, that's going to do well because of the secular drivers underpinning this. i think that when you look at valuation, the valuations of these stocks haven't moved over the last two or three years because they're growing into their earnings. >> lauren, erin makes the case like goldman is now, keep your eye on the ball. stay large, go big or go home and stay with those types of stocks, mega caps, for all of the reasons that erin articulated. >> i think that it's very clear that, though, the market performance has been broadening lately, quality is still the trend among the leaders. so that yes points to large cap and points to free cash flow and points to, you know, good fundamentals and if we were expecting to see a really broader equity market

performance, you would expect to see the junkier more cyclical things really expand which is not what we expect. i want to just re-emphasize something that erin is pointing to around structural trends, bringing it back to what you were asking around geopolitics, because the u.s. has become the biggest energy producer in the world and because structural trends around ai and digitalization and the energy transition, supply chains all point to an inflationary impulse, the cyclical element of what erin is describing if you add a macro volatility component to that, so your oil, your gold, your dollar, your 10-year, you need materials and industrials to support that macro volatility trend. for different reasons i completely agree with those investment themes, especially as the u.s. economy continues to reaffirm. >> why don't you give me a thought before i wrap this up on bonds? where do i want bonds to be? i mean, if you're nervous you're

buying bonds, yields go down. yields are up, even though we're nervous. 10-year at 4.63 we'll call it. >> i love a duration barbel in this environment. you and i have talked time and time again about if the market believes, as i do, the fed's next move is a cut, inching into short duration helps to manage that risk. because of the volatility in bonds we don't like duration as a major bed in our portfolio and balance in the municipal curve which is not inverted. >> erin, pimco has a view on how to play credit right now. >> yeah. i think that next move i think we all agree here is a cut. the question is when. historically, you want to start terming out your duration at the point that the fed starts cutting. so right now, i think it's comfortable to start setting your target level to start buying duration, longer

duration, for every 10 basis points higher in the 10-year yield. medium or longer term investor, buying duration is going to pay to own now, so you can start sort of inching into that trade as we move higher in yields. i do think that, you know, from a risk adjusted basis, duration, the -- will pay, you know, pay out dividends for investors. the question is when you start to get that. at these levels it's a pretty good time to start to buy. >> do you have a view here? >> yeah. listen, if the fed is going to start cutting later this year then shorter -- like you could make money everywhere, duration adjusted is going to be better at the longer end, but at the end of the day for me, risk assets are where you get this tailwind if they're threading this needle and inflation continues to come towdown and t

tolerate it north of 2%. >> it's good to see you as always. thank you. we are at the lows of the day as we send it over to steve for the biggest names moving in this declining market towards the close. >> hey there. let's start with logitech. down as much as 7% after morgan stanley downgraded it to underweight. the analyst said to expect just 3% annual revenue growth through 2027 which is below consenses estimates. >> the health care real estate company shares surging about 17% today after the company announced it would sell the majority interest in five hospitals located in utah to a new joint venture company for $886 million. scott? >> steve. we'll see you in a little bit. up next your big bank setup. morgan stanley and bank of america are out tomorrow morning with earnings, and we hear from top bank analyst mike mayo now with what he's expecting from

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the financial sector in the red today. goldman isn't, holding on to gains thanks to strong results this morning. morgan stanley and bank of america among the last of the big banks reporting and that's tomorrow. for more on what to expect now, wells fargo mike mayo, here at post nine. good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> talk about goldman, that was this morning, bucking the trend in the market today and you upped your estimates too. you like what you saw? >> i like what i saw a lot. we've been waiting for david solo mon can you get the job done when the investment banking momentum comes down and today the answer is a definite yes. they beat expectations and grew investment banking.

this would be best in breed in first quarter when it comes to capital markets. >> is goldman back? i mean is that a fair question to ask? did it go anywhere? the stock was under performer for a while. are they back? >> one quarter does not make them back. the returns last year were 10%, which for goldman is not where they want to be or where they should be. this quarter about 15%. if they can put a few of these quarters together, we can say goldman is back. >> are you overweight on the stock? >> em overweight on the stock. they have two strong businesses and that's global banking and markets and wealth and asset management that is lagging it's one third, but the hobbies we talked about, three four years, it's really not much of the equation anymore and they reiterated today they should break even in the third business line platform solutions next year. goldman sachs is going back to

its roots and by the way, next month is its 25-year anniversary being a public company. it's their silver anniversary. they at least delivered like silver for the investors. >> well said. but you still like citigroup the best? >> citigroup is still my number one pick. >> why? >> they went through a watershed organizational restructuring. it took seven months, 200,000 employees. they delayered from 13 to 8 layers and eliminated committees. everybody said they're going to blow up and lose their good employees and revenue and friday they beat expectations on both the top and the bottom line. revenues came in better than expected. there's more of a clear path. they reiterated their target and the stock has sold off since friday. that's a great opportunity for investors and i think citigroup is a double over the next two years and three quarters. >> why is morgan stanley an outlier from a stock stand point

year to date relative to the other banks we talked about and throw jpmorgan in the mix and still is that? >> you know, citigroup is my number one, number two, and top three picks. they're worst in class becoming less bad. morgan stanley has been best in class becoming less good. they have very difficult comps and eight consecutive quarters of outflows in investment management. we need to watch that. inflows to the wealth management business have been decelerating for some time and that wealth business gets hurt from the same higher interest rates that hurt a lot of regional banks. >> do you expect anything to come of the stories we've been hearing about, about the wealth management business? >> well, there's been a few articles in the "wall street journal," unconfirmed by morgan stanley about regulatory investigations and whether they're choosing their clients appropriately that could lead to extra costs maybe turning away from some clients, but they are not allowed to comment on the regulatory investigation. >> my next question is more

relevant, how much of an overhang potentially is that with the fact that they're not going to speak to it? >> well, i think we're going to have to look at the results. you've seen decelerating inflows to wealth management if those continue to decelerate -- they were up to 10%, went down to 3%, are they still growing wealth management assets or not? this could be -- this has potential to be an additional headwind that's not the make or break issue. the make or break issue are they running their business to gather those assets. >> isn't wealth management the crown jewel of the business? >> it is. my point between wealth management and investment management that's half the company. that's becoming less premium like. >> so ted pick tomorrow, presumably going to be on the call, it's his first earning report. >> it's his second earnings report. >> second. >> time flies here. >> it does. >> but he has to really win over, i think, win over the

wealth management side of the house. he's an investment banker through and through, strong record over a decade leading that business. his whole career has been at morgan stanley. he was born to become ceo of morgan stanley. but the side that needs his attention is the wealth management side because that's going to drive the stock price more than anything else. also, goldman sachs has set up tough comps for morgan stanley, so will morgan stanley keep up with goldman sachs? >> okay. what about bank of america? >> bank of america is a lower risk, long-term play. i would say the three cs apply to bank of america, first capital markets are picking up for the industry and you should see that at bank of america, second credit quality is so much stronger than i or anybody thought at this stage, and bank of america had the lowest losses in the fed stress test and that should look good. the third c, the consumer. bank of america is a play on the u.s. consumer which is remarkably resilient. >> another look at retail, it

tells that story. what about higher rates? if we're rethinking the trajectory for interest rates, higher for longer is not good for the banks, is it? >> well, i put out a note after the cpi came out last wednesday and said this might be a sell on the earnings situation between the higher for longer rates and the stocks having performed better here. opening day in baseball is a couple weeks away. the opening day for bank stocks, sustainable out performance might be pushed out due to higher for longer rates. citigroup benefits from higher rates and bank of america higher rates might not be so bad for parts of its business. >> good to see you. thanks for coming by. >> thanks for having me. nasdaq falling as we head towards the close today. up next, flexo capital joins us to tell us how investors should be navigating the space. the backup in rates and more. that's next.

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>> we haven't seen chinese evs in the u.s. should they be allowed to sell their evs in the united states? >> we don't have rules against it. >> consumers are spending real impact on discretionary items. we're growing our market segment share at a faster rate but at a lower rate in the healthy economy. losses steepening in the last hour of trading, nasdaq leading the way lower. my next guest bullish on that sector with earnings set to kick off, let's bring in plexo capital's lo toney. welcome back. >> thanks for having me. always a pleasure. >> it's tough right now in tech, certainly today, with nasdaq, but you think earnings are going

to start to deliver when we get going in this space is? >> yeah. i think there's two letters everyone is looking for twice, both ai, for artificial intelligence and hopefully lead to additional income. >> i thought the letters you were going to talk about was nvidia hoping to save the day, nvda. do our hopes hinge on that? >> i'm spending a little bit more time thinking about some of the other big tech players like microsoft, to see how integrating ai is going to deliver for products like 365. i'm interested in alphabet. i think alphabet needs to show what's going to happen with gemini, how that's going to lead to integration across some of the other product lines and the potential drivers for revenue on the advertising business. i think for amazon, we're very interested in diving deeper into the partnership with anthropic, which is a plexo capital

portfolio company seeing if those synergies can work to add additional revenue to the bottom line and bottom line for amazon, and then finally, meta. you know meta is making a big investment into ai. when you look at that unit, that houses both the meta verse and ai, who knows, they don't break out the numbers, but we suspect over $3 billion will be invested this year across both. meta changed their name to meta to represent the metaverse with this big investment in ai and maybe they'll change their name to arty. >> what a sign of the times. lo toney goes through the list of the mega caps that matters most and ticks everything off and no apple. that says everything. >> yeah. i think for apple, what we really need to see is, okay, go back to what we talked about with big tech. big tech has been talking about integration of new technologies specific to ai for the past year

or so. now we're starting to actually see those results in the earnings statements, in the income and on a big topic of focus and emphasis on the earnings calls because people want to see is big tech delivering what they promised months ago? you know, apple has been a little less at the forefront, which is typical for apple. apple typically takes a little more measured approach, and so i think what we'll look for from apple are signals around how they're going to integrate ai. who knows. some of the analysts are saying the potential integration of ai into some of the next generations of iphones could that lead to another reset like a 5g reset. we're not sure. but i think that's what we'll look for from apple is giving us that indication of things that we should look for to be on their development pa of the. >> are you comfortable with where multiples are even if

rates are going to back up a little bit? >> we got a little bit ahead of ourselves in anticipation where rates were going to fall to this year. obviously, with some of the numbers that we've seen around inflation, and the signaling, we probably won't see those. it was more of a matter of, you know, kind of when rates were going to drop. now is a question of if rates are going to drop, and given the geopolitical tension as well, yeah, i think the earnings really are going to have to come through for big tech to prove that they can remain resilient with all of the headwinds we might face at the back end of this year. >> what should our viewers think ability reddit today? following a successful ipo, there's not a tremendous amount of love on the street for it, it's mixed fair to say, as you tart get initiations. you have a fair amount, neutrals under perform. i get 58% have overweight ratings. that's healthy, obviously, and i

should also mention, of course, that plexo was early in reddit too. how should we be thinking about it today? >> yeah. i think when we looked at the latest batch of analysts that are covering the stock initiating coverage, it's mixed. we see some folks building a bullish case for the stock and i think, you know, that bullish case would be based on, you know, a few things. you know, looking at the engagement of the users, looking at the potential for new revenue streams to potentially serve ai and talk about ai again. reddit is a repository of data that, obviously, the ai models would salivate to train across and we've even seen the beginnings of what could be a new revenue stream with the deal with google, but, you know, i think the main thing is that if people are thinking about reddit two ways, number one, how should i think about reddit as a potential holding and how should

i think about reddit as a potential barometer for ipos, you have to dive in deep and think about where reddit is and how much anticipation, excitement there was, just for an ipo couple days with that announcement around ai, possible that it could be running a little bit ahead of itself, but if you do the comparison you could make the case that it's kind of right where it should be at the moment and then i think thinking about it as a barometer for ipos. we've got a long way go before we can get back to some type of normalcy with the ipos. reddit in and of itself is not going to get us there to open the ipo window. there are other names. names like databricks, turo on the consumer side and everyone's waiting for stripe, but i think we've got a few years to go before we're going to see some type of normalcy back within that ipo window. >> that's longer than i expected you to say. a few years to get back to some

level. you used the word normalcy. goldman sachs delivers today, they're hopeful of a return to capital markets, economy still robust and still a few years away from normalcy in the ipo market? >> i think so. we have to think about where we are today. you need about six months when you're ipo ready to get all the filings in place, so i think pretty much we're probably set for the ipo calendar for this year and you have to think back. where was the peak? thepeak was 1200, 1300 companies a couple years ago. we're so far from that, that i think, you know, we'll see hopefully some improved performance in some of these private companies that give them the confidence to be able to go out, but also remember, a lot of these companies and the best performing companies have raised so much capital, that it really is a necessity for them to go out into the public markets, number one, number two, the

secondary market in the private side has gotten much more efficient so for those companies that are private that did have pressure from some of their investors, there's alternative paths to be able to provide liquidity other than just the ipo. i think a third point is that when we look at what happened a few years ago with that rush of ipos to be able to get us to that record, there were a lot of companies that went public that probably should not have gone public. i think we're going to see a new barometer kind of moving from hey, if a company has, you know, $100 million or couple hundred million in revenues to get to a couple billion in market cap we're going to see that bar go up and look for companies to get closer to really a billion dollars in revenues and then potentially have a multibillion dollar market cap to be ipo ready where they can maintain some nice level of performance and resilience in the markets to drive that demand not only from consumer investor but from the

institutional investors that matter. >> appreciate it as always. lo. up next tracking the biggest movers into the close. >> the dramatic decline? one social media stock continued and guggenheim downgrades a cloud name sinit or ayg 'sve valued, after this.

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heading towards the "closing bell." back to steve covac. >> hey there. shares of trump media down 18% today after the company said it plans to issue 21.5 million new shares. the stock has been on a steady slide for weeks after the companywhich operates former

president trump's truth social app disclosed it lost $58 million on just over $4 million in revenue last year. and shares of cloud services company servicenow down more than 3%, about 4% actually, heading into the close after gugen hymn analysts downgraded the stock based on its valuation taking that stock to neutral from buy. >> thank you. tesla tumbling on the back of layoff news how this could impact the stock in the months ahead, coming up. tamra, izzy, and emma... no one puts more love into logistics than these three. you need them. they need a retirement plan. work with principal so we can help you

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>> they did worsen as treasury yields lifted. basically you have the bond market searching for the pain point of not just stock investors, but the economy to a degree. yes, i agree with the conversation tlaerl we're seeing yields go up for positive reasons on balance, which is the economy is holding up better and seeing hot retail sales number and the manufacturing stuff inflect higher. all that is good, but it can be self-undermining and the consumer stocks are not celebrating a strong retail sales number. i think that's the main dynamic, especially over the last ten days. you know, the tlt long-term treasury yield marching the stock market down in the context of a market primed for some excuse for a 3 to 5% drop. 3.5% off the highs, persistently over bought in an up trend to cracked the momentum, broke the short-term uptrend and after today probably oversold. the vix went up to 20. all those dynamics seem to be falling into place even if we

still need more clarity on whether bonds will find buyers here and, you know, obviously, all the other headlines that have been distracting us. >> julia boorstin, what's happening with salesforce today? we have talk of another potential deal and this stock is selling off hard on that? >> yeah. shares of salesforce plummeting about 7.5% right now, falling on reports that company is in talks to buy data management firm informatica. they do have a market cap of more than $10 billion. shares of informatica falling on the reports, down over 7%, but its shares have gained more than 43% in the past year. salesforce has made more than 70 acquisitions since 2006 and has drawn activist investors. responding to those activists disbanding its committee focus on m&a. if this deal close through and

informatica is trading at, since it purchased slack for $28 billion in 2021. before that it bought tableau and mulesoft in 2018. salesforce declined to comment and informatica did not respond. >> to phil lebeau. this tesla slide on reports of job cuts? >> you have a couple key executives leaving. let's talk about the job cuts announced this morning in a company e-mail from elon musk. more than 10,000employees. they have about 140,000. approximately 14,000 will be let go. he says we need cost cuts and we also need to increase productivity in his memo, elon musk says there is nothing i hate more but it must be done. this will enable us to be lean, innovative and hungry for the next growth phase cycle.

shares of tesla as i mentioned were also a couple executives announced they were leaving including rohan patell. those are two that have been there a long time, raises the question, what is the future of tesla. find out april 23rd when the earnings call happens. >> thanks for that update there. we have about a minute left. we have the fed chair speaking in d.c. tomorrow. pay close attention to that. not necessarily on the tredirecn of interest rates but given where rates have backed up it's pertinent. >> the market is definitely kind of raced to a point of saying we're not expecting any real help from the fed even though the fed is inclined in that direction and the end of next week we will get that pce inflation number that will probably settle things for a while right now. yep, you have to listen to what they have to say. the s&p interestingly, has gone right back into the range that i was talking about earlier of the nvidia earnings pop day and so in a way we're kind of testing

the whole scenario of is that just an overshoot to the upside and we have to chop around. [ applause ] >> the s&p off. [ applause ] i'll send it into overtime now. 600 point swing for the dow as rising geopolitical risks sends the blue chip index lower for a sixth straight day. winners state late. welcome to "closing bell: overtime." >> treasury yields spiking again as the 10-year hits the highest level since november amid escalating tensions between israel and iran, also some stronger economic data with retail sales today. coming up, council on foreign relations emeritus richard haas onhe