he's a hawk, and that is safe in south carolina. >> yeah, yeah. gloria, thank you very much. gloria borger in washington. >> sure. special coverage continues with "the lead" right now. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news -- welcome to a special edition of "the lead." the white house in crisis. i'm jake tapper in washington. we begin with breaking news in the politics lead. moments ago house democratic leaders fired back at secretary of state mike pompeo accused him of potential obstruction after pompeo claimed democrats were intimidating and bullying state department officials who the democrats plan to depose. pompeo tweeted "let me be clear. i will not tolerate such tactics and i will use all means at me deposal to intimidate dedicated professionals i am proud to lead and serve alongside the department of state." pompeo as of now, no comment

about the revelation that he was in fact listening in on that july 25th phone call in which president trump asked the president of ukraine to investigate his political rival, joe biden, and biden's son hunter. this is a fast-moving story covered from the white house and all the way to ukraine. start with manu raju. what did the house democratic chairman have to say to the secretary of state? >> reporter: they pushed back rather aggressively saying any efforts to deny these witnesses from coming forward, these are current, former state department officials, the democrats wanted to depose beginning tomorrow. any efforts to block that from happening would constituteir imt investigation. and said moments ago, any effort to intimidate witnesses or prevent them from talking to congress including state department employees is illegal and constitutes evidence of

obstruction of the impeachment inquiry. in response congress may infer from this obstruction any withheld documents and testimony would reveal information that corroborates the whistle-blower complaint. now, reading between the lines, what they're saying here, jake, they're not, they don't have the patience tore a is a stafor a s with the trump administration. subpoenas issued, trump add min station not complying say and democrats don't want to go that route and suggest any efforts by pompeo and others in the trump administration to not give what they want, not turn over documents or provide testimony required by the subpoenas essentially could 0 amount to an impeachable offense, obstruction of congress being that impeachable fence is what democrats are saying. we'll see what ultimately ends up happening. witnesses scheduled to come tomorrow, unclear if that person will be deposed.

democrats at the moment saying it could lead to a rather quick impeachment this fall. >> and a house democrat reminded me last week obstruction of congress one of the articles of impeachment against president nixon. manu where do things stand on the possible interview with the whistle-blower by the house intelligence committee? >> reporter: talks are still ongoing about bringing this individual forward. the house intelligence foreman adam schiff is confident that the whistle-blower will come forward but just arrived here on capitol hill. i tried to talk to him about this and other matters. he declined to comments. also, the senate intelligence committee wants to bring that whistle-blower forward but there are concerns the president's attacks against this whistle-blower could essentially prevent him or her from coming forward and in fact today, jake, a top republican, chuck grassley, sitgrassley sits on the senate judiciary committee says those should be left off the table and are not

helpful for this country. >> grassley, ardened supporter of whistle-blowers. thank you, manu raju on capitol hill. down the street to the white house where we find cnn's abby phillip. we've not seen president trump in public. he's made his presence enfelt on twitter. >> reporter: loud and clear and attacking this whistle-blower. this morning sending a tweet that is misleading at best. it said, so if the so-called whistle-blower has all secondhand information and almost everything he's said about my perfect call with the ukrainian president is wrong, why aren't we entitled to interview and learn everything about the whistle-blower and also the person who gave him false information? but the problem is that yesterday there was an extraordinary letter coming from the inspector general of the intelligence community, michael atkinson, who the president appointed that pushed back on that very narrative. here's what the inspector general wrote. the whistle-blower stated on the form that he or she possessed

both firsthand and other information. the icig reviewed the information provided as well as other information gathered and determined that the complaint was both urgent and that it appeared credible. so a strong pushback there on this idea that the whistle-blower is simply trafficking in hearsay, not only is the inspector general saying that firsthand information isn't necessary, but also saying that the whistle-blower did provide some firsthand information and the secondhand information was corroborated by an investigation. >> yes. in fact, corroborated by release of the transcript and by the white house admitting he took the transcript and put it in the super secure server as well. abbey abo abby, what about the president's plans to mount a defense during this impeachment inquiry? >> reporter: so far not much in the way of an organized coordinated defense. the president has been taking matter into his own hands on social media.

last week we started a process of talking, his aides, aides in the white house and his lawyers both inside and outside of the white house got together to try to come up with some kind of strategy and they're expected to present him with a plan this week, but there is a sense of anxiety among the president's aides that they are not fully prepared for this. the idea this week is come up with some plan both communications plan and a legal plan to help them cope with this fast-moving impeachment inquiry. meanwhile, president trump's aides and advisers and allies have been fanning out on television trying to defend him, attacking the whistle-blower, all of them trying to mount a defense as this investigation seems to be moving very, very quickly underneath their feet, jake. >> abby phillip at the white house, thank you, and now to kiev, ukraine, we find clarissa ward. the president of ukraine addressed this controversy today. in fact, you asked him about the

military aid and any pressure he may have felt from president trump. >> reporter: that's right, jake. he didn't want to answer these questions. he started out the press conference saying he would only talk about the situation here in eastern ukraine, but we pressed him on the issue. believe me, his answer was evasive relying on semantics to try to avoid being pinned down. take a listen. >> did you feel pressure from president trump to investigate the bidens in order to unfreeze military aid? >> [ speaking in foreign language ]. >> translator: i understand institut. i never feel pressure pe. i'm the president of an independent ukraine and would like to think and my actions suggest no one can put pressure on me. >> reporter: you hear there, he

says no one can pressure me, jake. different from saying, no one did pressure me. but the message we got from the president was, listen, i can thought seem to be taking sides in america's domestic political turmoil. ukraine relies heavily on u.s. aid and no mat here is the president, democrat or republican, it's crucial for ukraine to have a good relationship. this president is really hoping that all of this is going to blow over, jake. >> and clarissa, president zelensky spoke about rudy giuliani. >> reporter: that's right, jake. asked whether he had ever met with rudy giuliani, although we should say there's nothing to indicate and no suggestion he has and he was unequivocal in his answer. take a listen. >> ooici've never met rudy giul, never. and never had any phone calls with him. >> reporter: important for viewers to remember, though, jake in that transcript or

summary of the conversation, infamous conversation between zelensky and trump, zelensky himself brings up giuliani. he says one of my assistants has spoke ton giuliani. we look forward to inviting him to ukraine. certainly a fair question to ask. >> rudy giuliani reached out to one of sln szelensky's aids. and names appearing in the whistle-blower complaint, we'll take a deeper look at roles played by all of the president's men coming up. you're watching a special edition of "the lead." "the white house in crisis." stay with us. so i can buy from

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guide. discover how an all-in-one humana medicare advantage plan could save you money. there is no obligation, so call or go online right now. back with breaking news. democrats pushing back against secretary of state mike pompeo suggesting pompeo is intimidating witnesses to protect himself and president trump. chew over all of this with our experts. neil, start with you. pompeo accusing democrats of intimidating and bullying his own employees and democrats saying pompeo is doing this? you know, the nefg going out of this white house is this was a perfect call. that everyone was above board

here and then you have pompeo, that he was on the call. the idea he is now saying it's really the democrats who are bullying these folks who may very well want to add information to the public's knowledge of this call of what was going on with ukraine. it does seem like he is signaling to the folks who might want to come forward it's an uncomfortable thing for them to come forward. this idea they're being bullied by pompeo seems to be that that's what he's trying to do essentially chill their testimony before coming forward. >> and the irony here, when the president wants to meet the whistle-blower face-to-face so he can bully him and says that adam schiff is treasonous which by the way is potentially something you can be executed for, and then the secretary of state says, it's like he joined a frat and said, wow, there's hazing here. they both need to settle down. >> both right out of the president's playbook. which we've seen. undermine the institution investigating you, claim you're the victim and then question the

legitimacy. pompeo's going it. not using the language the president uses. not using terms like treason and so on but it's the same thing. you just say they're not legitimate and not able to investigate you. >> it's so striking the difference between what we heard from mike pompeo and heard from mark esper end of last week. of course, give you whatever you want. whatever congress wants to investigate happy to turn it over and then someone like pompeo very close to the president on this call and sounds exactly like the president and i do think, and i know the tone the president has taken, but if you're one of these career officials and you have been working on this issue, i think it matters if you hear mike pompeo saying what he says versus if you hear mark esper say what he said. definitely sends a different signal. >> absolutely. i feel like i'm at a heavy metal concert and near earplugs. mike pompeo can write back, witness needs time, goes out on twitter trump-style, playing to the boss.

>> your response to president trump's para trade adviser earl on "fox business" how he described this. >> this is nothing less than an attempted coup d'etat and reminds me, the first guy who was head of the soviet union secret cia equivalent, bearia, he said, you know, show me the man i'll find you the crime. every day the president's got to get up and deal with china, deal with russia, got to deal with iran. >> i understand. >> and now the house of representative and i don't know which one's more dangerous. >> i don't know which one's more dangerous. house democrats, china, iran -- i mean, that's honestly -- your tax dollars at work. >> and this is i think a reflection of what they've been hearing in the conservative chattering class. some of the talk show hosts, folks like rush limbaugh and also their attempt to basically make this one, long narrative.

right? from the campaign to the mueller probe tos post-mueller probe to kind of not make the ukrainian issue a separate issue. that's what democrats want to do. they want to focus on that phone call what the president was doing and so you have all the president's men out there essentially saying this is a democratic plot. what they've always wanted to do. they think this president is illegitimate and this is part of that long plan that democrats have had. >> you've covered this white house. is there a strategy other than whoever, gathering together all of the loyalists and having them go out there and just throw whatever mud they can against the wall? >> i think the strategy is fight and deflect. if you were, i think, an organized, smart, intentional white house you might have people going through the transcripts of our calls saying what else do we have that is potentially problematic? what do we need to get organized and in front of? instead a lot of officials going at it saying this is an extension of the witch-hunt

pointing their finger at joe biden and hunter biden saying the scandal is over here and more of the same. rudy giuliani's fate to be determined. see more of them, too, maybe. >> and you heard phil talk about some of the things the president has done condemning the whistle-blower suggesting he'll find out who he is. makes comments about excuse cushions when it comes to people who provide information. that is the law of this country, has the president crossed that line? ngts exa >> exactly why we have specific whistle-blower laws. you don't want to get into hurting people's free speech rights, silly as that sounds. crossing into i'm going to kill this person or muttput a hit ons person it violates the law. the better question, the president is exercising profoundly unsound judgment as president of the united states. that's what we worry about. >> has not yet violated the law.

good point. and bill barr, mike pence, donald trump, try to connect all the president's meant caught um in these impeachment hearings. stay with us. do you have concerns about mild memory loss related to aging? prevagen is the number one pharmacist-recommended memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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all the president's men now caught up in the ukraine scantaled and impeachment investigation including the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani, the nation's top law enforcement agent william barr and the vice president mike pence and secretary of state pompeo. why is pompeo attacking democrats today? >> clearly upset he's caught up in the web of scandal around that phone call with president trump and the president of ukraine asking a foreign ally t son hunter. and he yo he didn't want the

transcript released and white house attorneys had this locked up in a classified computer file normally resumed, reserved for state secrets. as you noted he's not the only one. look at william barr at the justice department. he's roped in because president trump told the ukrainians they should work with him on this investigation of the bidens even though there was zero evidence the bidens did anything wrong. also we know the president asked other countries including australia to work with barr on his investigation into the origins of the russia investigation, which so bedevilled the white house. giuliani, private attorney for the president. he's caught up in it, same reason. because the president told the ukrainians work with him and we now know there were ukrainian whose told cnn, yeah. he specifically was looking for dirt on joe biden. he's been subpoenaed alonged with some of his records and mike pence saying get after corruption. the president equates that with

going after joe biden. pence insists the president did nothing wrong here even though all of this was happening while millions of dollars in u.s. military aid to ukraine was suspended by the white house. jake, all you have to do look at all of these men connected to the president who are now also firmly attached to this questionable phone call to a foreign power to get involved in u.s. politics. of course, the republican echo chamber says none of these people did anything wrong. if that's the case, then why did all of them seem to want to keep this secret? jake? >> tom foreman, thanks. joining me someone who knows a lot about all the president's men. investigative journalist carl bernstein and also joining us douglas brinkley, historian. thank you both for being here. take a listen to pompeo two sundays ago with martha radditz before we knew he was on that call between president trump and the ukrainian president.

>> the "wall street journal" reports that president trump pressed the president of ukraine eight times to work with rudy giuliani to investigate joe biden's son. what do you know about those conversations? >> so you just gave me a report about a -- whistle-blower complaint none of which i've seen. >> carl if there was nothing wrong with the call as president trump claims, that's not exactly the most honest answer to that question. >> i don't think mr. pompeo has been very honest throughout this episode. one of the real similarities to watergate, there are real differences, and i think trump's conduct as president is far worse than nixon's was in terms of his corruption. in terms of his contempt for the established practices of the presidency and the rule of law in this country. but what we see in both instances are the roles of attorneys general to facilitate

the corruption and facilitate the cover-up. in the case of watergate, mr. nixon had two attorney generals who facilitated this. one of whom went to jail and here we have mr. barr, the attorney general, at the center of all of this and what mr. barr has been doing, and the first day after the whistle-blower's complaint was revealed i said, on this hour, just about this hour, this is about william barr's attempt to produce evidence that a deep state conspiracy began, that's where we're going here. rather than focusing on what indeed the president of the united states has done, we are trying to invent a conspiracy they somehow was about joe biden and his actions. >> and, doug, rudy giuliani acting as the president's personal lawyer. there are people in the white

house, in the administration, who think he's doing more harm than good. what do you think? >> no question he is. he seems to be just unspooled, rambling around, traveling around the ukraine, fumbling and bumbling through everything he does and says. you know, people are wondering about whether giuliani is cope is menas, does he have his wits about him? his ego tim so overwhelming he just wants tv time and doing anything donald trump says for him to do. i'll be interested to see in the american law association investigates into bidens, and using ukraine in this way. never seen a lawyer act this way at the behest of a u.s. president. >> and the talk about power allegations against president

trump and president nixon. abuse of power on this issue having to do with ukraine, how did the two, how does president trump stand up when it comes to president nixon? >> both presidents wanted to undermine the very basis of american democracy. free elections. in nixon's kate,case, ex-pee ex and nix didn't not involve a foreign power in an attempt to undermine american democracy and free elections whereas trump involved several foreign powers to try and come up with dirt on the strongest or the person he perceives, trump, as strongest as an opponent to him. biden. and through this patently

unlawful, unconstitutional, corrupt behavior. and if republicans, and here's the big difference between watergate and what we're seeing now. if republicans are willing to go along with this, it is going to change our history. because republicans became the heroes in watergate who finally said, we cannot tolerate a corrupt president who undermines our electoral system and this is far worse than just undermining the electoral system given the rhetoric and what we've seen of the president's unraveling in the last week or two. >> doug what do you think about that in terms of how much republicans on capitol hill are willing to tolerate? we've seen some of the president's most loyal defenders, the lindsey grahams and jim jordans out there supporting him. really a lot of them are holding their tongues. i don't know where we are, vis-a-vis this scandal versus watergate, but do you see any difference between how republicans are acting? >> i do.

during watergate eventually republicans whether barry goldwater or howard baker and others standing up to the power of nixon saying he lied and also in nixon years had a state department with william p. rogers and henry kissinger. they wouldn't have damaged the state department as an institution and become a henchman for the president. and pompeo did this by lying saying he wasn't on the phone call with the ukrainian president, he is no longer credible in the public arena as secretary of state. >> a phrase from that era, credible gap, coming into play as well. douglas brinkley and carl bernstein thank you for your time and expertise. for attorney general barr, t the development that he might need to recuse himself. stay with us. so i can buy from

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guide. licensed humana sales agents are standing by, so call now. today all the president's men finding themselves entackl d entangled in the democrats impeachment probe. secretary of state pompeo on the phone call. and the president's person lawyer rudy giuliani also mentioned and subpoenaed for documents related to ukraine and vice president pence in ukraine recently before the scandal broke and while they are brought up both the desires and president trump's "great concerns about issues of

corruption." according to this. and saying he didn't mention biden's name in that meeting with the president of ukraine but brought up the president's concern about corruption, translate that for us? >> what that means is, look, this is going to be a long investigation. it's per sfect effefectly to ob. it's about a long relationship with ukrainians. anybody in america would say it's appropriate to press the ukrainians on corruption. all we did was do anything any other president would do. let me cut to the bottom line. this is about saying it's not about one phone call and about holding up money. it's about making this 17 angry democrats, investigating for months and months and months a, along allegation that won't prove out to be true. make it obscure as possible is what he's doing. >> when vice president pence brings up issues of corruption

to zelensky, might zelensky not think he's talking about biden? >> i don't think that the ukrainians, i think they were panicked for a portion of this but not confused what the administration was asking for. go through and see the transcripts of president trump's call all of a sudden talking about javelin missiles and, oh, hey, can i ask you to do me this favor and run a few investigations of what we want you to look into? it is not a quid pro quo written out word for word in a way democrats would appreciate, but i don't think ukrainians were confused what exactly was going on here and what the trump administration was suggesting. >> and ask you about attorney general barr. mentioned, the president cites him as a go-to guy on issues having to do with investigatinged bidens. barr's office told there was a whistle-blower complaint and barr mentioned a week before the complaint was given to the justice department.

is there not some ground for recusal? he's all over this. >> some grounds. he's like the forrest gump of the president's wrongdoing. every place you have a question of the president meddling in the justice department or questions about impartiality, attorney general seems to be there. absolutely a question of recusal. here's why. the rules say if there's an appearance of a conflict not even a real conflict and it's clear there's at least an appearance when the guy is the gooey named on the call by the president of the united states as being a foreign leader, absolutely ought to recuse and acting within justice department guidelines if he did. >> and told the president presi poern attorney, rudy giuliani do you think he might cooperate? the way pompeo is saying he won't cooperate? >> listen to rudy giuliani different days he give as different answer.

saying last night if he can bring his charts, graphs, audio recordings and do his whole rudy giuliani show in front of congress, then maybe, but we'll have to see. obviously, they're asking for documents. he might claim privilege even though sometimes he said he wasn't doing this as president's lawyer. doing it as the president's friend. we don't know. he's obviously a key person in this. look, he's obviously willing to go on camera and talk about it. whether or not he's actually going to sit down and cooperate in terms of documents or testimony we have to wait. >> speaking of giuliani, confirmed to cnn he hired former watergate prosecutor jon sale as his attorney to represent him throughout this impeachment. sale was assistant special prosecutor in the watergate investigation and now a white collar lawyer. obviously, giuliani getting ready for a long time. >> i don't think anyone who was an attorney would advise another poern to represent themselves in something like this. a bigger disaster than making what we have already seen in terms of the rolling rudy

giuliani disasters. i think this does send a signal he knows this is a serious issue. if he decides he wants to snub this committee, he at least wants to consult with another attorney about the best way to do it. maybe there is some way to hand over documents and refuse to testify. we will see. i am thinking we'll get 15 different versions before we know what giuliani does. still e! stick around. republican reaction so far, silence, deflection, distraction. how far can they do that? we talk to a former republican congressman next on this special edition of "the lead," the white house in crisis. stay with us. so i can buy from

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in our politics lead today the president's allies defending him as most republican lawmakers seem to be staying quiet about the growing white house crisis. joining me to talk about it, former congressman from the great commonwealth of pennsylvania, noonks joining us. do you think it do you think it is abuse of power to ask a foreign ally to

investigate a challenger? >> absolutely. had i ever received a transcript like the one i saw, president of ukraine zelensky, that would have trigrd an ethics investigation and referral to the doj. you cannot use your official offices for a naked political purpose. that's what that transcript struck me as. an attempt to use your office to get opposition research or dig dirt on your primary, or principal political rival. >> i appreciate the clarity. your former colleagues up on capitol hill, republican colleagues, are being very, very quiet about this. something that i would think would be a fairly easy thing to say, this is not okay. have you talked to any of them? >> yeah, i have. most of them do know that they cannot defend, this is indefensible. look at both the phone transcript and the whistle-blower report or complaint, and it's in plain english. you cannot defend the substance

of what's in those two documents. so i think those who are trying to defend the president, you hear them, they're i think getting themselves in all sorts of trouble. talking process, oh, a even though the secondary source is quite credible and is verified with the primary sources say. but that is what they're doing. so there is no way to defend this. some of the members, when this first broke, those members in my view were concerned but not yet alarmed. i did speak to a republican senator who fully understands the impossible situation that they are put in. that if they get too close to the president, that they will alen ate swing and moderate voters and if they get too far away from the president they'll have base erosion and for some of the members they need to hold together their base and bring in swing voters so the president places them in an impossible position. >> impossible position for them to get re-elected but it is not that impossible if you are

thinking about what is the right thing to do. this is a no-brainer as you say. the president is in the transcript asking a foreign leader to investigate a political rival. end of story. >> full stop. and that is not getting into the quid pro quo. the other aspect of this, with holding foreign assistance until ukrainians investigate the bidens, that is another issue separate from the use of resources. when i was in, jake, i didn't worry about -- i said sometimes you have to do the right thing. do the right thing and the politics will sort itself out and i think sometimes as elected officials we tend to overthink the politics and sometimes it is just easier to state what you believe in and then try to defend it. people respect that. >> you note there are all sorts of ways people are trying to -- republicans are trying to spin this, defend this. last friday on the show a former rnc chief of staff and cnn

political commentator mike shields was talking about rudy giuliani and his role with the ukrainians and then tried to pivot to hillary clinton aide sydney blumenthal and shields falsely claimed that blumenthal was involved in the steele dossier and an outside spy for clinton and false and irrelevant to the ukraine call. is this what it is now. throw out names and mud and see what sticks on the wall. >> they are simply trying to distract. to my republican friends, i say this. over the last several months we heard the president ad nauseam talk about no collusion with respect to russia and the mueller investigation and now we have this document in front of us where the president of the united states is trying to collaborate with the president of the ukraine to basically do research on his opponent. that is collusion. i just -- it is just stunning to me and striking that the president would be so reckless and self-destructive and so

there is no way to sugar coat this thing, the optics are terrible and try not to explain the inexplicable. >> charlie dent, thank you so much. good to see you again. >> jake, great to be with you. and president trump faces allegations of using his influence to dig up dirt on his opponent, his first official endorser in congress just pleaded guilty to his own set of corruption charges. who is it? stay with us. ♪

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breaking news, as president trump continues to rail against as far as the evidence shows baseless claims of corruption, the first member of congress to back his white house run has just pleaded guilty to crimes connected to actual proven corruption. republican chris collins of new york, the congressman who resigned from the house of representatives today, pleaded guilty for charges related to insider trading. brynn gingras joins me. tell us what happened inside of the courtroom? >> reporter: jake, well chris collins just left the courthouse and jumped into a van. didn't say a word. this is a man who adamantly denied any wrongdoing for the last year. this morning he became a former congressman, by this afternoon he became a convicted felon pleading guilty to two charges, conspiracy to commit securities fraud and making false statements each carrying a five-year penalty. remember he admitted now to

making a call on the white house lawn at the congressional picnic to his son telling him about a failed drug trial which he served on the board of the drug company allowing his son and associate to dump stock, saving money. he's now going to face sentencing for that in january. >> brynn gingras, thank you so much. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. welcome to a special edition of "the lead." the white house in crisis. i'm jake tapper. and we begin this hour with breaking news. three top house democrats are accusing secretary of state mike pompeo of intimidating witnesses in an effort to protect himself and president trump. secretary of state pompeo said he is refusing to honor democrats' requests for depositions of five state department officials and he accused democrats of bullying secretary pompeo, we should know, was on the call in question with president trump and ukraine's president and as abby phillip reports, president

trump is also keeping up his attacks. he's also going after democrats as well as the media and the whistle-blower. >> reporter: while president trump continues to attack the whistle-blower behind his impeachment inquiry, both on twitter and on camera -- >> we have a whistle-blower that reports things that were incorrect. >> reporter: his secretary of state today is pushing back on house democrats looking to question some of his employees. in a letter mike pompeo saying democrats are trying to intimidate, bullying and treat improperly the distinguished professionals at the department of state. >> we're not going to talk now. >> reporter: house intelligence committee chairman adam schiff refusing to answer questions about pompeo's letter. instead, issuing this statement late this afternoon along with two other committee chair men saying pompeo should immediately cease intimidating department witnesses in order to protect himself and the president. >> thank you very much -- >> reporter: meanwhile