and you're holding your ground. and i'm listening to dennis' command. [ crowd chanting ] >> yikes. you might have seen david there fall in the crowd by the bull. his effort did not go as planned. you see what happened when you watch. it's quite something. "seeing red: running with the bulls" only here on cnn. we cannot end this long and chaotic week without checking in with the soon to be hibernating bears. fat bear week runs through

october 10th. you can still vote for your favorite. the web address is fatbearweek.org. with that, the news continues. "the source" with kaitlan "the source" with kaitlan collins starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight, straight from "the source," new reporting on the behind the scenes shuffle that led to donald trump's late night endorsement in the house speaker race. he's not only deeply invested in who the next speaker will be, but who that person will be to him. plus president biden facing backlash from his own party after reversing his immigration policy and building more of trump's border wall. a senator who once called that wall medieval is here to respond. nobel peace prize winner sitting in jail tonight, continuing to risk her life behind bars fighting iran's oppressive regime. what she wants the world to know. i'm kaitlan collins, and this is "the source."

tonight i have new reporting on how donald trump is viewing the race for house speaker in terms of loyalty to him alone. as he travelled from a new york courtroom back to his mar-a-lago club this week, i'm told that trump was playing close attention to the dramatic ouster of who he refers to has, my kevin. i'm told that he focused on making sure that the role is going to someone who is loyal enough to him. he scoffed at the idea of some of these more moderate names that have been floated like tom imer and others. trump was looking to capitalize on the entire chaotic spectacle by going to washington next week to endorse his pick, potentially, during that gop meeting that is set to happen on tuesday. that plan hit a brick wall when troy nells tweeted this, catching not only trump but his

inne inner circle off guard. just had a great conversation with president trump about the speaker's race. he is endorsing jim jordan. though trump had been reluctant to do so publicly, that did force him to the post his own shortly after midnight affirming that, yes, jim jordan does have his endorsement in this race. for now that trip to d.c. is scrapped and so is the fox debate. that fell apart after fellow house republicans were infuriated they would be debating publicly. one republican lawmaker telling cnn, quote, people are pissed. it's just another sign of the tension that is happening inside the gop right now, as republicans are still scrambling to find their new leader. and speaking of the former leader, kevin mccarthy spoke today, denying reports that he is planning on resigning from congress. >> i'm not resigning. i have work to do. >> you're not resigning? >> no, i'm not resigning.

>> so, you'll stay the entire term. >> i'm staying. don't worry. i've got a lot to do. >> are you thinking about running for re-election? >> yes. >> he's going for a much more casual look these days. i am joined now by former republican congressman adam kinzinger and senior adviser to president obama, dafd axelrod. like it or not, donald trump is the leader of the republican party. he clearly wants someone who is loyal to him as the next house speaker. what implements do you think he has in actually deciding who they vote for as soon as next week potentially? >> well, he'll have significant influence because what this does is this sets off the right wing ecochamber where people will start tweeting and people will start asking members of congress who they're going to vote for. and you can't play coy. you have to now say it publicly because that's the pressure. if you do anything but jim jordan, you're a rino. that's unacceptable to a rino or a squish. all the people that would be

opposed to jim jordan start publicly coming on board. that doesn't mean jim jordan has this thing of walking away. but certainly donald trump's endorsement, while maybe not a morally good thing, if you're just running for the office, it's probably very helpful. >> yeah. it was notable that his post endorsing him had more to do with his wrestling track record than anything really related to congress. but david, i mean, there's no blueprint for what someone like kevin mccarthy is doing right now in the sense of being ousted by his own party, staying in congress for now, he says, saying he even might run again. how do you expect he handles this race? does he get involved? does he endorse somebody? >> i mean, he said he wouldn't. i'm not sure that he will. it's an awkward position for him right now because he was, of course, my kevin. he was trump's guy. now trump has interposed himself in this race. i really don't know. i can't crawl inside kevin mccarthy's head and see what -- and think about what he would

do. but i will say this. i think trump's rolled the dice here. you can't be the self-proclaimed and apparent leader of the party, the front runner for the nomination, interpose yourself and not win it. so, he has a lot at stake here. the last thing that trump wants to look like is a loser, as we know. so, now he -- it's really on him to try and deliver his guy. if he does, one thing i think will be for sure is that we will see a formal impeachment of president biden during the next few months because i think trump will insist on it. >> yeah. i mean, he was already insisting on just getting to the inquiry, which he wasn't -- he didn't see as sufficient. speaking of trump, obviously he endorsed jordan, congressman, not long after he was on fox news. and i noticed in jim jordan's hit last night, he was talking

about jim jordan being the next president, talking about what a great president he was. this comes as trump toying with the idea of taking the speakership on a short-term role. do you think that is something that jordan was trying to make sure he did not take seriously? >> i don't know. i don't think anybody -- i think even jim jordan -- maybe because i think jim jordan desperately wanted to be speaker for a long time. he acts like he's being kind of shepherded into this position by his bonds to america and his duty to the country, which she absolutely failed, by the way, on january 6th, and everything leading up to it, and post-that when we wanted to talk to him. but i think this is just a matter of, you know, jim jordan probably knows donald trump isn't running and probably wants to just keep kissing donald trump's backside because he knows he can turn a lot of votes. again, even if, you know, in a secret ballot, which in the conference itself, in the meeting of just republicans, it's a secret ballot. you only have to get half of the conference to then be the quote,

unquote republican name before. i think jim jordan gets that very easily. the question in this is, are there five to ten republicans, so-called moderates, that play the same game that the eight that deposed kevin mccarthy played. and they simply refused under any condition to vote for jim jordan, particularly because this will doom ukraine and particularly because jim jordan frankly doesn't deserve it. that would be the question and i don't know the answer to that yet. >> let me just -- >> go ahead, david. >> if i can, kaitlan, it doesn't -- yes, it will do ukraine, which would be a tragedy. it also, i think, would imperil the dozen or more republicans in swing districts. i think jim jordan is the face of the republican caucus who will become a huge rallying point for democrats in these swing districts because he reflects a hard-edged extremism that was the reason republicans

underperformed in 2022. so, it would not be good for the country. and it won't be good for the democratic caucus if he ends up winning. >> well, speaking of all this and trump's influence on this, as we're looking at, you know, trump is in between the courtroom and the campaign trail, where he's expected to be back tomorrow. i want to get both of your thoughts on this. congressman, i'll start with you. these are awful comments that trump made when he was in an interview talking about immigration and migrants specifically. this is what he said. >> nobody has any idea where these people are coming from. we know they come from prisons. we know they come from mental institutions, insane asylums. we know they're terrorists. nobody has ever seen anything like we're witnessing right now. it is a very sad thing for our country. it's poisoning the blood of our country. it's so bad. and people are coming in with disease. people are coming in with every possible thing that you can

have. >> poisoning the blood of our country. what went through your mind when you heard that comment, congressman? >> i mean, like, who says that? who says poisoning the blood of our co country. you know who did say poisoning the blood of our country? adolf hitler in "mein kampf." this is language right out of "mein kampf." this is not -- every republican -- and particularly every republican that wants to be speaker every time they're interviewed should be forced to answer for this question. do you agree with what trump said or not? and if you don't, do you still consider him the best possibility for the next president of the united states. the president of the united states talking about poisoning the blood of the country. i mean, even if a president had said this about al quaeda after 9/11, it would have been over the top. instead, he's talking about people desperate for a better life. there is no excuse for this.

this disgusts me as an american to hear him say that. >> i should note that his spokesperson tried to deny that it was any kind of xenophobic remark. but obviously, david, this fits into a long history of comments like this that trump has made. i mean, this may be the furthest. but what did you make of it? >> well, look, i mean, we all remember how he entered american politics in the first place, coming down the escalator at trump tower and talking about mexico sending rapists and murderers over the border. so, yes, this is completely consistent with who he is. and adam is -- i agree with every word he said. he said, this is over the top, though. and we should note that donald trump's built his whole career on saying things that no one else would say. he's built his whole career on saying things that are over the top. and he's found an audience for the things that he's said. and right now, there is concern,

and i think justifiable concern, about what's going on on the border and the influx of migrants. and he is trying to take advantage of that situation by doing what he always does, by touching these very, very sick chords but that generate a response. this is vintage donald trump. so, we should both condemn him and recognize the power of his willingness to say what no one else will say. >> yeah. the power of those words. david axelrod, adam kinzinger, thank you both for joining me. just a note, we've fact checked trump's claim that mental institutions in soegt america are sending patients to the border. there is zero evidence. just a fact check there from those comments. we'll take a deeper dive on the speaker candidate who got trump's endorsement. trump awarded him the medal of freedom just days after january

6th in a private ceremony at the white house. also tonight the biden administration is still struggling to defend the president's border wall reversal. while blue state mayors and governors are also demanding more help with the wave of migrants that they are facing. we'll speak with a democratic senator right after the break.

of the two candidates who are locked in the battle for the gavel on capitol hill, only one, as we just noted, has gotten the

endorsement of the man who still maintains an iron grip on the republican party. the twice impeached, four times indictment donald trump said jim jordan had his complete and total endorsement for house speaker. he awarded jordan the medal of freedom when donald trump was in office. he gave that jordan less than a week after the january 6th attack on the capitol, during a private ceremony that happened at the white house. in between phone calls to fellow republicans today, congressman jordan told manu raju, he appreciates trump's endorsement but is also focus on getting support across the board. >> i like the job i've got now. i never wanted to do this job, but someone has to. who can bring the team together and go communicate to the country. and that's why i'm running. >> someone who united states the

party is not always the way jim jordan has been described, certainly not on capitol hill. he is the chairman of the freedom caucus, and he was once called a, quote, legislative terrorist by the former republican house speaker john boehner. >> i just never saw a guy who spent more time tearing things apart, never building anything. >> despite jordan's reputation as a, quote, bomb thrower, he has risen from the fringes of the gop to the forefront of his party. he's now the chairman of the powerful house judiciary committee. he's playing a key role in the impeachment inquiry into president biden as well. >> this is a tale as old as time. politician takes action that makes money for his family, and then he tries to conceal it. >> one former republican lawmaker offered a blunt warning if jordan does end up with the

top job. that's liz cheney, who of course chaired the january 6th select committee. she accused jordan of being, quote, at the top of the list of republican who is enabled that attack. >> jim jordan knew more about what donald trump had planned for january 6th than any other member of the house of representatives. >> she also predicted, i should note in those remarks, that jordan would lose this race for the house speakership. her sentiment was echoed by the former white house staffer and the star of the january 6th hearings that you saw here on "the source" last week, cassidy hutchinson. >> the jim jordan i'm privy to, nearly everything, if not everything, knew everything pertaining to january 6th. jim jordan can't be trusted with the constitution. >> jordan defied a subpoena from

the january 6th committee. he is answering questions about conversations that he had with trump on that dark day. >> did you speak with them before, during, or after the capitol was attacked? >> i'd have to go -- i spoke with him that day after, i think after. i don't know if i spoke with him in the morning or not. i just don't know. >> before, during, or after the attack on -- >> i talk to the president after the attack. >> not before or during? >> right. >> i should note the phone records that were subpoenaed by the committee show that jordan did speak with trump for ten minutes on the morning of january 6. for more on where he is now, where he is in this race, joining me is former illinois congressman rodney davis, who worked alongside jim jordan in the congress. you were at the capitol with mccarthy on tuesday when she was he was voted out of his speaker position. when you look at what jim jordan used to be known as, what he is seen as now, charlie dent who

also is a former republican congressman said earlier to jake tapper that he was always good at blowing up deals but not necessarily putting them together. do you think he's the right person to lead house republicans now? >> well, because of donald trump, i don't get to make that choice anymore, kaitlan. but i can tell you, charlie and adam and others you've spoken with, they were right about jim jordan. when i got to congress in 2013, he would blow things up. he wouldn't legislate. he was not a lawmaker. he was somebody who completely disregarded any legislative process. but what i can tell you is jim jordan has changed. when we spent time in the last two terms in the minority, i watched jim jordan grow into somebody who actually legislated and legislated well. he's somebody who clearly has a shot at being speaker. i don't know if she's the front runner right now, but he has a shot. >> i think there are some skeptics probably watching, maybe who just raised their eyebrows when you gave that comment. and i think the question would

be, has jim jordan changed, or is it the party that has changed to be more like jim jordan? >> well, some in the party have changed to be more like jim jordan. i think we're seeing more gerrymandered districts, which bring more polarized, political individuals into congress. but i also saw jim change. because jim was somebody who worked with leadership over the last two terms. look, i was excited to be nominated to serve on the january 6 select committee with jim, with others. but unfortunately, speaker pelosi did what she did best as speaker, she set precedents that tore the fabric of the institution apart. >> well, she rejected some of those picks and then kevin mccarthy pulled all of them. i mean, part of that is also personal to you. you voted to certify president biden's win. jim jordan notably did not. that's part of why liz cheney was saying, you know, he can't be trusted with the speakership.

do you not think it's disqualifying if it's someone who voted against certifying the legitimate election results? >> you know, voting against certifying election results just didn't begin on that tranlic day of january 6. it began -- it happened in many presidential elections before. in 2017, i watched jamie raskin and jim mcgovern stand on the floor to object to states that president trump won. let's look back to 2004, when you had recent committee chairs that were democrats that voted to decertify ohio's election results for george w. bush. no. i don't think one vote should determine the future of anybody's ability to serve in the position. whether i agreed with that vote or not. >> i don't think people would see those as the same thing. i think that wasn't right when those lawmakers did it, but doing it after a dramatic attack on the capitol, where the president is contesting the results and not just in court but on his twitter feed.

i am curious of what you think of whether or not trump's endorsement here of jordan is helpful or hurtful, because he kind of down played it earlier speaking with manu raju. obviously there's a lot of moderate republicans he's trying to bring into his fold. >> with the slim majority republicans have, i don't see how this is a net gain for jim at this point. there are many i serve with in congress that will never support jim jordan because donald trump has stepped forward. it's going to be an interesting -- it's going to be an interesting race over the next few days and into next week. and i certainly hope that the republicans can come together, get a consensus candidate, and begin moving the country forward again. >> it is going to be an interesting race, is maybe the understatement of the night, former congressman rodney davis. thank you for joining us with your perspective tonight. >> thanks kaitlan. up next, a jailed iranian activist has just won the nobel

peace prize for her fight against oppression and for women's rights in her country. even from her jail cell, she was a key part of the massive protests that have happened. d tonight her fight is not over. from chrome to duckduckgo.

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the winner of this year's nobel peace prize won't receive it in person because she's currently locked away in an iranian prison. narges mohammadi was awarded the prize for her 30-year battle for human rights. she's serving ten years in a notorious prison for abusing political prisoners, and she's been banned from seeing her family. when protests rocked iran last year when massa amani died in -- female inmates about their rights. now tension is once again brewing on the streets of iran. activists have accused the morality police of assaulting a 16-year-old who was not wearing a head scarf. she was seen collapsing at a metro station. she has been in a coma since

sunday. iranian officials claim that she fainted because of low blood pressure. but mohammadi said the regime is preventing the truth from coming to light. exclusive audio from within the prison. mohammadi is heard leading prisoners in a chant of "women, life, freedom." [ crowd chanting ] what's unclear tonight is if she even knows she has won the nobel peace prize. prisoners cannot receive calls on fridays. joining me now is the iranian american journalist and activist, who was nominated for the prize as well and also knows mohammadi. i'm so glad that you are here. you have known her for some 20 years i believe. >> yeah. >> what did you think when you heard this amazing news? >> i screamed. i screamed out of joy. it's like i myself won the

prize. as far as any woman wins nobel peace prize, it means that all iranian women got it, you know what i mean? it's a slap in the face of the gender apartheid regime. that is why i got very, very happy. >> just looking at her body of work, what narges mohammadi has done, she's reported extensively about government abuse. she has paid for that. she's been arrested 13 times, kwukted five of those times, and sentenced to 31 years total in prison, 154 lashes. i mean, that's the price that she is willing to pay. >> exactly. but let me be very honest with you. she is wounded. she paid huge price. but she's unbreakable. she's unbowed to the islamic republic. first when i met her, it was 20 years ago. before even seeing her face, i heard her voice loudly and bravely challenging the members of parliament for the situation

of political prisoners. since that, she herself became a political prisoner. but as far as i know, even inside prison, she became the voice of voiceless people. that is why i believe that this war had a significant message, showing the rest of the world the real picture of iranian women. >> do you think she even knows she's won this award? >> i believe she knows it. the iranian regime attacked her already. so -- >> for getting this award? >> for getting this award. and they see iranian national television in prison. between the lines she can read that this is -- i mean, for me and million of iranian women, when the islamic republic attacks someone, she's a hero. >> it's a badge of honor. and they've been down playing the nobel peace prize as well. >> of course, of course. >> do you think that's because they don't want society to get this sense -- we've seen all these multial protests stacking

up. do you think they're worried they'll see she's getting this bloebl recognition for her work. >> that's a very good point. i believe they try to down play this prize to let the people know this is nothing. but at the same time they know that, you know, this is going to encourage narges to be more determined to mobilize women within the prison and to encourage other women in society to -- because this is a recognition to women, life, freedom. it means a lot to us. i even tattooed it here. it means a lot to millions of iranian women. i have to say this is a bittersweet moment for iranians right now. at the same time, we are happy to be recognized. but on the other hand, only 16-year-old teenager is now fighting for her life in a coma right after being beaten up by morality police. >> iranian officials denying that her mother has been arrested as well.

the details around this, from what we know, are horrific. >> denying is in the dna of the islamic republic. they actually killed 1,500 innocent people in bloody november. they shot down the internet and then -- united nations on saying that, you know, death to america. we didn't kill anyone. we know iranian regime the best that now if they didn't kill -- if they didn't beaten up ar mee at that, then what was the reason they forced her parents to do false confession? what was the reason they even detained two of her classmates two, teenagers, and forced them to deny the brutality of morality police? why they arrested the journalist, female journalist, who was trying to clearly do her job, making a report, taking a photo. did she really fainted out just because of a drop in her blood pressure, then let all the

international correspondent, all the journalists go there and show it to the rest of the world. >> you don't just pass out and go into a coma from low blood pressure. you always come with a message any time that you and i have spoken, an important message to world leaders. if you were speaking to them tonight, what would your message be? >> i want to be actually the voice of iranian people because they say that, we're happy when we're being recognized by nobel peace prize committee. but at the same time, what is the point that the west actually giving prize to well-known activists facing guns and bullets. but at the same time, they are legitimizing our killers. you know, i don't really get it. iranian people are furious for that. so, my message is very clear. be as brave as narges mohammadi. my clear message to the female politicians in the west, be as brave as iranian women and say no to gender apartheidship.

women are getting killed for showing their hair. men getting executed for supporting women life freedom movement. my message is very, very clear. this regime is either gender apartheid or not. it is gender apartheid regime, then isolate. and president biden actually congratulate narges mohammadi, and he shared his sympathy with army talk. but america can take the leap and ask europeans to expand the definition of apartheid in all international laws to include gender. that's how we isolate and end the islamic republic. >> women, life, freedom. we love having you on. >> thank you so much. one day i'll get invited to iran. >> i would love that. thank you so much. >> thank you. also coming up, the fate of the war in ukraine could depend on who the next house speaker is on capitol hill. my next guest argues that maga republicans outplayed kevin mccarthy and democrats on funding, and abandoning ukraine could lead to wider conflicts.

that perspectiveve next.

a surge in migration is leading to some policy reversals by prominent democrats. the biden administration will resume deporting venezuelans directly back to venezuela, as border crossings have jumped in recent weeks. department of homeland security announced that protected status from migrant from venezuela means they could stay and work in the united states for 18 months. all of this as president biden today is defending a major campaign promise he made by resuming construction on the southern border wall, with president biden saying it was because money was already approved by congress in 2018 that he has to take this step. meanwhile we're hearing from democratic mayors in major cities asking the federal government for help as they are facing a wave of migrants. senator, i'm so glad you're hre to talk about this. it's an issue that so many politicians, so many people are dealing with across this

country. tonight i was thinking of a speech you gave in 2019, a very fiery speech on the senate floor. i want to remind our viewers what you said in 2019. >> i can assure you that in colorado, if a president said he was going to use imminent domain to erect a barrier across the say it of colorado, across the rocky mountains of colorado, he was going to steal the property of our farmers and ranchers to build his medieval wall, there wouldn't be an elected leader from our state that would support that idea. >> senator, has your position changed, that you see a border wall as medieval? >> well, kaitlan, thanks for having me. what i was saying in that speech, which i 100% agree with today, was that we should not take farmers or ranchers' land by imminent domain.

the government just taking, seizing their land, which is what donald trump was proposing. yeah, no one in colorado would ever support that. you know, i didn't support putting spikes on a wall. i didn't support putting alligators in a mote. i didn't support shooting people that were coming across the border, all of which donald trump did. what i did support was the last comprehensive bill, immigration bill, that we passed in the senate. there was the so-called gang of eight. i was one of the four democrats who negotiated that bill. that bill had a pathway to citizenship for 11 million people. it had the most progressive -- ever written. something forgotten is that it had $40 billion of border security. 40 billion. that's far more than donald trump ever spent on his wall. but it was modern border security. it was stuff that we developed in afghanistan and iraq that could have allow us to see every single inch of the border and

allow us to manage the border in a proper, rational, and humane way. and that's what we need in our immigration system. we need an immigration system unlike the one we have today that's not broken. and we need one that's consistent with our best traditions as a nation of immigrants. i think we could create one. >> i think people from both sides of the aisle would agree that the immigration system is broken. i should note that last suggestion from trump, that was a suggestion that wasn't actually a policy process. but when it comes to the fact that -- on the ground, the white house is ak nonling they are expanding the border wall, what's your response to that? >> my response to that is no one thing is going to, sort of, this problem. we have to figure out how to build more capacity on the border so we can actually have a rational approach to people coming hee. we've got to build a system so that we're able to give people an answer within three to six months of what their status is

going to be in the united states. we need a system that allows people that are here to be able to work and contribute to our economy. we have none of those things today. we don't have a system that works at the border. we don't have a system that works for our economy. and it's a national disgrace and a national tragedy because we're literally losing farms and ranches because we don't have the people to work our farms and ranches. so i think this is one of those things, kaitlan, just like our health care system and our education and system and whether we're going to fund ukraine and all the other stuff we should be working on that donald trump did not fix, not even remotely when he was president of the united states. he's trying to get another shot at that. i think we'd be a lot better off with republicans and democrats working together in washington to actually achieve -- >> senator, respectfully, president biden said when he was a candidate there would not be another foot of wall built. do you see this as a broken

promise to voters since they are, indeed, not only building more feet of that wall. they're building 21 miles. >> i don't think probably that was a promise that should ever have been made. i think what we should not be doing is having a fight over this inch of border wall or that mile of border wall or this person that donald trump is attacking. what we should be doing is figuring out how to have a rational system that can drive economic growth in this country, that can support our agricultural sector, that can support our high-tech sector, and, when needed, can support our history as a nation that refugees have found a home and that immigrants like my mom, you know, who was born in 1938 in warsaw, poland, the worse place on planet earth you could have been born, a nation where she and her parents could come and rebuild their shattered lives

after hitler had destroyed their entire family. these are the things that we should be doing as a country. >> i know that the environment has been a project for you, a passion for you, something that you have cared a lot about. are you okay with president biden bypassing a lot of these environmental laws in order to expand the border wall the way that he's doing? >> i haven't studied the 25 miles of the border in detail, although i am going to mexico city on monday, and i am going to the border this week. so, i'll ask those questions while i'm there. >> well, it's the clean air act, the safe drinking water act, the endangered species act. it was among a dozen others they are bypassing. are you okay with that? >> i would need to know the details of it, kaitlan. let me just say, i want to say in fairness and respectfully to you that i believe my entire career and my entire adult life that the clean water act, the clean air act, and the endangered species act not only

have been important for our climate but important for our economy. i continue to believe that. on the other hand, i also believe, as a general matter, that we have made it too hard to build things in this country. i'm not talking about the wall now. i'm just talking generally. we made things too hard to build. and if we are going to create the energy transition we need in this country, we're going to have to figure out how to build things again. that, again, i'm not talking about the wall in that context. >> okay. >> but i do think -- look, i can appreciate the fact that the president said one thing when he was running and he's apparently said something else yesterday. i think it's appropriate to call that out. the point that i'm making is that if we are ever going to solve this immigration issue, just like the most complex issues that are facing this country, we're going to have to stop -- and i'm not talking to you about this, i'm talking about politicians -- trying to score cheap political points that don't actually put points on the board for the american people.

when we wrote that gang of eight bill, we got 68 votes in the senate. you can't get 68 votes for almost anything. that's hard in the senate. and unfortunately got torpedoed by the tea party in the house of representatives. and we got to get back to the drawing board and see if we can't make that agreement again or something like it. >> senator, after you go to your trip to mexico city, we look forward to having you back to get your perspective on it. thank you senator michael bennet for joining us on a friday night. >> thanks for having me, kaitlan. coming up, it has been a deadly week in ukraine. dozens of civilians have been killed, including children, as russian strikes and the debate in the united states is continuing over the funding for the war torn country and whether there will be any more of it.

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another deadly week in vladimir putin's war on ukraine. you're looking at destruction from kharkiv today where a 10-year-old boy was killed while he was sleeping. yesterday, another child was killed in an attack on a small village. 52 people in total killed. back in the united states, as you see images like that, the fight playing out on capitol

hill for more funding and whether or not there will be any more for ukraine is now tightly wrapped in the battle for the speaker's gavel that we started this hour with. i'm joined by "washington post" columnist josh brogan who wrote about the politicization of ukrainian aid. i was fascinated by this reporting. essentially what you saw is that mccarthy's ouster that happened on tuesday actually made passing any new aid to ukraine, you say, quote, extremely difficult, perhaps impossible. what did you hear from these lawmakers? >> right, for weeks, months, democrats and some republicans and the biden administration were depending on mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy to get the aid through. they were telling everybody, including reporters, that it was only a small number of republicans that were opposed and those republicans could be managed. well, no one can say that anymore. mccarthy's gone, mcconnell has lost control of this caucus. they were successful in stripping the aid out. and mccarthy thought he was doing that as a concession to

the right-wingers and the right-wingers removed him anyway. now the ukrainians are in the worst possible position ever. it's not in the bill. it's going to take an active act of congress to put it back into the next funding bill. there's no clear path on the house floor. there's no promise by jim jordan or steve scalise to bring it to the house floor. if the funding doesn't come through, within a couple of weeks or months, depending who you ask, the ukrainians are going to run out of money, and all of a sudden they're going to be short on weapons and more people will die and vladimir putin will benefit. >> yeah, i mean, jim jordan has said he doesn't favor more ukraine funding right now. what i'm struck by is that kevin mccarthy took it out of that short-term bill that they passed. i mean, obviously in hopes of appeasing, getting it passed, appeasing the lawmakers who said no to it. both results would have ended in him being ousted. >> right. >> the question is, should he have left it in there anyway? >> you're right, he got played.

he gave a concession for no reason. and then even after they took it out of the bill, still democrats in the administration were, don't worry, kevin mccarthy will get it done in the long run. now he can't get it done and there's no plan "b." and i think this shows that the opposition was much more entrenched than we thought. that we underestimated the maga lawmakers' capacity for maneuver and their ability to think two or three steps ahead. what that means is that the biden administration, democrats and republicans who support ukraine and who don't want to see the counteroffensive undermined at the most important point, america's credibility undermined around the world, we'll have to come up with a better explanation for the american people why this is in america's best interest and fast. >> seems like a tougher argument every day. josh rogen, great reporting, thewashingtonpost.com. thank you for your time tonight. and thank you for joining us on this friday night and every night this week.

"cnn primetime with abby phillip" starts after a quick break. from chrome to duckduckgo.

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