hunched over and people shaking like there were their hands were shaking and it was it was bizarre. it was i have to say it was and seeing those people flying around, it was like to see the exorcist i always like, what is this it was it was hard to believe that to see that happen firsthand. >> what brian thank you very much for sharing it with us. of course. sorry. so sorry for you and everyone on board that plane it is terrifying. what happened? terrifying with the pilot told him you and we all want some answers and obviously, you and your fellow passengers deserve them as quickly as possible. thank you >> thank you for thank you for having me thanks so much to all of you for being with us. ac360 starts now tonight on 361 of jack smith is central >> witnesses in trump's

classified documents case going public for the first time, talking exclusively with cnn's kaitlan collins about what he says was his role in moving documents, the federal government was trying to find. also tonight, meet that who uncovered how senator katie britt and misleadingly turned one woman's 20 one year-old sex trafficking horror story into the centerpiece of her indictment of president biden's border policies today. and later, what is wrong with this picture, princess kate and her for kids. she now says she edited herself. but that story is only raising more questions. the royal palace had hoped to quell that evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight. breaking news that is a cnn exclusive. what the man known as trump employee five in the federal classified documents indictment, thinks of the case against his former boss. his name is brian butler, and he's been talking to investigators and now he's talking to the sources kaitlan collins, who joins us from miami. so why is he speaking out now kaitlan? >> well, anderson, in part because he's worried that americans and voters will never get to hear this story before the election in november.

obviously, trump's legal team has sought this strategy of delay, delay, delay, especially when it comes to the classified documents case. and so this witness, someone who was a longtime employee at mar-a-lago for 20 years, is now speaking out publicly because of a concern that it may not come to light. i mean, donald trump has repeatedly called this investigation a witch hunt. brian butler, who until now was known only as trump employee number five, is now saying that he disagrees with that. he doesn't believe it's a witch-hunt, and he was able to provide key testimony to the special counsel counsel jack smith here, including about key moments, including one where walt nauta, who is trump's body man, turned co-defendant, asked him to help load boxes onto a plane that was bound for trump's club in new jersey from palm beach as the fbi in trump's attorneys were meeting at that time at his mar-a-lago club? >> and then what happened is walt left before me and he never goes directly to the

plane. he's either in the motorcade when he goes there with the boss, which the former president and i remember telling him he left the club with i didn't know what he had in his vehicle, but he waited for me at a nearby business and i told him i would tell him when i was leaving mar-a-lago so i left mar-a-lago. i texted him, hey, i'm on my way >> he followed me. he pulled out and got behind me. we got to the airport. i ended up loading all the luggage i had he had a bunch of boxes. >> you noticed that he had >> they were the boxes that were in the indictment, the white bankers boxes. that's what i remember loading. >> and did you have any time any idea at the time that there was potentially us national security secrets in his box and no clue no. i had no clue. i mean, we were just taking them out of the escalate piling them up. i remember they were all stacked on top of each other and then we're lifting them up to the pilots and anderson, one key point on this, kaitlan,

poland's and i have been reporting on this story for months, if not over a year now. and when it comes to those documents that were taken to new jersey, that is something that was we were pursuing investigators were pursuing it. it's still not clear to this day where those boxes that went to new jersey ended up? of course course we know a lot of them were taken from mar-a-lago during that search that happened in august of 2022. but the ones that went to new jersey, it's still unclear where exactly they went. >> and why did butler decide to get his own attorney rather than using one of the trump's attorneys that's a key difference because you can see basically the divergent paths that a lot of these witnesses are taking when it comes to who is paying for their attorneys, for brian >> butler, it was important for him to pay for his own attorney here, even though he was offered a trump world attorney, he had that offer made to him and after he got a subpoena to appear before the grand jury, which as he noted, he has done for a significant amount of time, provided a lot of testimony to them. he got this

voicemail that is from an attorney who was in trump world who was representing several of the witnesses here and trump himself, john rally, who loved this voicemail on brian's phone? >> hey, brian, good morning. my name is john rally. i'm one of the lawyers representing president trump. it's my understanding that you've got a grand jury subpoena. would you please give me a call? at the first opportunities? >> i should note he did not answer that call. he did not return them voicemail. he instead pass it onto his attorney, but he said he did feel pressure from one of the other co-defendants here, carlos de oliviera, to get an attorney from trumpworld. >> kaitlan, stay with someone we're gonna senior legal analyst, elie honig, and also carry a cardillo. carrie cordero. elie, how significant? is a witness like this for the prosecution, you think, you know, in any case as a prosecutor, anderson, you always want to tour guide. you want someone who can take you inside a closed world like this one. this is the inner workings of mar-a-lago. and even from the snippets that kaitlan just played as you get a lot of insight into how things work, who reported to who, and also one of the big mysteries in this case as kaitlan said how

did these documents make their way from florida up to new jersey? so the other thing that i noticed about this witness and it's in the write-up that kaitlan collins and katelyn polantz did. is this witness is not eager to get trump. there's a moment when he tells them something like, i realized as the fbi was questioning me, that my information was going to be used against trump and i was i didn't like that, but i felt important to tell the truth. and so as a prosecutor, i think that's really important indicator of credibility. >> and kerry, would prosecutors likely have some sort of a deal in place with butler. this point? >> well, if he hasn't been charged, so i think his fact there's a couple of things. so first, the facts are that are relayed in the interview that kaitlan has done, doesn't sound like he knowingly was a participant in the unauthorized mishandling of classified information so it doesn't necessarily sound like he knew exactly what was going on, but he knew something's sort of squirrely was going on. so i'm not sure that there is evidence

that the justice department has again, just based on this interview so far, that would indicate he could be charged it also sounds as if he has been as forthcoming as possible. and so based on what he has seen and his observations about the actions of others, he does seem like he would be a compelling witness, but i'm not sure based on what i've heard so far, that he necessarily would have had his own criminal culpability kaitlan >> he's not saying that he saw what was in the boxes. he is saying just those were the boxes that were later seen that had been seen in photographs that kind of boxes that we've all seen in those photographs. can you just explain again the timeline of all of this? so as he is going to the airport with the box, they're taking the boxes to new jersey. >> is that really the >> moment that the fbi is at mar-a-lago or is that the day that the fbi is going to mar-a-lago to try to track these things down? >> brian butler described it as kind of a puzzle where he was

just able to put the pieces together later on. and also the indictment really helped to be able to see what was really happening. and these two days in june of 2022 were so critical because on june 2 was when trump's attorney went into the storage room in the basement of mar-a-lago, went through for the documents, looked for what was classified documents he believed, then took them upstairs, put them in a redweld folder to give them to the fbi. the fbi agents show up at mar-a-lago on june 3, the next day. and as brian butler noted trump was still there, which was a bit unusual. he typically would leave to go to new jersey to his club earlier than that, but he was still there that day. and what brian remember seeing is trump's attorney evan corcoran. he's very tall, he's got the silver hair. he remember seeing that he didn't know who the other people were in or sin, but he now realizes they were fbi agents and they were there on june 3. we do know that because that was when they handed over those 30 or so classified documents handed over a form that said i attest that this was a diligent search and the

best of our ability, everything that was here, of course, that was not true. anderson and the attorney they say didn't know that at the time, but that was months before the fbi showed up and found hundreds of classified documents still there, but it's a key part of this because it was that day before when trump's attorney attorney went into that storage room to look that walt nauta, who is now a co-defendant here and carlos de oliveira had moved documents into trump's office. 30 boxes or 60 boxes, and then moved 30 bucks back. and so there were these key moments happening that this trump employee five didn't realize at the time and can only fully appreciate now that they look back. >> oh, how do you think the defense will try to cross-examine a witness like and because again, he took his own testimony, did not look inside the boxes. >> yeah. >> i think there'll be aggressive for sure and cross-examination. i think this is going to be a pivotal witness. you're right. i think they're going to do a couple of things. first of all, they're going to point out gaps in his knowledge. i'll say to him you didn't open those boxes, right? boxes look alike. how did you know this box was the exact box in the indictment?

donald trump's team. i assure you we'll say most or all of your information. it sounds like that he got didn't come from donald trump. it came from walt nauta. it came from mr. de olivera. and so they'll say it's secondhand, it's not as compelling against donald trump, but as carrie said, it appears this person, mr. butler but it does not have any of criminal liability. doj did not make him plead guilty to a charge. what he probably has as either a non-prosecution agreement, which sort of is what it sounds like, or immunity which is a formal agreement where they say, you're going to testify in your words, won't be used to prosecute you. and so i think there's another line of cross-examination that you're just telling prosecutor here's what they want to hear to save your own hide >> all right. elie, carrie, katelyn, thanks very much in kept kaitlan's catch kaitlan full interview with former trump employee, brian butler, the top of the next hour on her program. the source right here on cnn 09:00 p.m. now, the criminal trial that's scheduled to begin just two weeks from today. that's when jury selection is set to stardom and district attorney alvin bragg's case against the former president alleging he falsified business records,

tied to the 2016 hush money payment to adult film star stormy daniels. in emotion made public today. his attorneys asked the judge to delay the trial until the supreme court rules and whether he is covered by presidential immunity in the january 6 case, cnn's jessica schneider joins us now with more on that. so is this just a delay tactic? >> yet, delay anderson is probably likely part of the strategy trump's lawyers have been very good about dredging up every possible civil legal issue, filing motions to delay any number of cases. now in this particular instance, what they're doing is they're pointing to the fact that the manhattan da's office actually wants to bring into evidence at the trial some of the public statements and twitter post that trump made in 2018 while he was president about stormy daniels and trump's payments michael cohen and trump's lawyers are saying that some of those statements should be excluded from evidence because trump, they argue was acting in his official capacity as president and that's the part that goes to the supreme court. what they'll be weighing on april 20 fifth, whether a former president can be immune

from criminal prosecution for things that might constitute official acts. now, whether tweeting about stormy daniels michael cohen can actually be deemed an official act. it's questionable but basically what trump's lawyers are saying is all of these questions about official acts and presidential immunity, they argue they need to be determined from it by the supreme court first before they move forward in this hush money case, that's their argument. >> and what's the reaction from the judge >> yes. so the judge has a few things to say. first off, he's questioning why the trump legal team waited so long to file this motion to delay the trial jury selection is slated to start in two weeks. and actually the deadline for any motions was february 22 despite all that, the judge here, he's asking for the da's office respond to this request to delay by wednesday, and he's doing another thing, anderson, the judges also sending really a somewhat of a stern warning for moving forward. he's saying that trump's team and the da's prosecutors must now seek permission if they're going to file any new motions ahead of

jury selection. and i read that is really indicating but the new york judge wants to keep this case moving and he might not grant those efforts to delay in this trial might go forward on march 25th, anderson, jessica schneider, thanks very much coming up next border line honesty. how senator katie britt misrepresented a woman's story of being sex trafficked to score political points in her state of the union response. and why her explanation now what she did doesn't make sense. we're keeping them honest also, with all the concerns about princess kate medical condition after surgery fund abdominal issues you can now add a new complication that doctors, family photo, and the royal fiasco surrounding it anderson cooper 360 is brought to you by teba visit sounds like tea ed.com >> kate made progress with her mental health, but her medication caused unintentional movements in her face, hands, and feet called part of dyskinesia or td. so her dr.

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've got a special photo on your phone, installed a free keepsake app. we would love a chance to frame it for you give your monos tonight, the migrant >> crisis, border security, sex trafficking, and bad faith. the first three are real problems which republicans say president biden is not taken seriously enough. the bad faith has do with how they're making that argument and continued to even after being called on it, specifically, alabama senator katie britt, who is, you know, said this last week while giving the republican state of union response we know that president biden didn't just

create this border crisis. he invited it with 90 executive actions in his first 100 days. >> when i took >> office, i took a different approach. i traveled to the del rio sector of texas that's where i spoke to a woman who shared her story with me she had been sex trafficked by the cartels, starting at the age of 12. she told me not just that she was raped every day but how many times a day she was raped we wouldn't be okay with this happening in a third world country this is the united states of america and it is past time, in my opinion, that we start acting like it president biden's border policies are a disgrace

>> prison. biden's border crisis, she calls it a disgrace. she said, not just created by the president, but invited by him according to the senator, which might be political hyperbole while addressing that problem is any president's responsibility. one could find facts and figures and personal stories to make a case that this president is failing on that score, she could have done that. the senator, but keeping them honest, that's not what katie britt did. instead, she made that woman's all too real horror story a centerpiece of her argument when it just doesn't belong there. something a journalist named jonathan katz first picked up on, posted to social media friday night. he'll join me in a moment. first though. here's part of what he posted after watching senator britt's state of the union response specifically about the part when she mentioned the woman who survived bray so i immediately had questions >> who was this woman? how did she meet her? how did she get her to tell her this story? what country did it happen in didn't happen before joe biden

was president so as mr. katz quickly discovered the woman's name is karla jacinto she's an advocate for tracking victims and a longtime acquaintance of cnn's rafael romo, who spoke exclusively with her over the weekend at one point when i met you years and years ago, you told me that you felt like at the beginning >> mexican politicians had taken advantage of you by using your story for political purposes do you feel like that happened once again? here in the united states >> joy. >> yes >> in fact, i hardly ever cooperate with politicians because it seems to me that they only want an image. they only want a photo. and that to me is not fair. to also told me that senator britt got manual but the facts of her story wrong. number one, she was not trafficked by mexican drug cartels, but by a pimp that operated as part of a family that entrapped vulnerable girls

in order to force them into prostitution to she also said she was never trafficked in the united states. senator britt appeared to suggest three, she was kept in captivity from 2004 to 2008 when president george w bush, a republican, was in office as opposed to the current administration. as a senator implied. and finally, for she met the senator at an event that the border with other government officials and anti-human-trafficking activists, instead of one on one >> so just to recap, yes, karla jacinto was a tragic victim and incredibly brave survivor and advocate. but if she says it wasn't mexican cartels trafficking her across the border in the united states. and the del rio sector is it's a senator intimated and the nightmare which she courageously survived did not happen during the biden administration, having 20 years ago during george w bush's presidency in mexico, not the united states, but again, you would not know any of that from senator britt's account, the

digging that mr. katz touched off only picked up steam throughout the weekend. so by the time senator britt was on fox on sunday there was a big deal which senator britt tried to downplay. here's what she said about it >> did you mean to give the impression that this horrible story happened on president biden's watch you can look. >> i very specifically said this is what president biden did during his first 100 days. >> but to be clear, the story that you relate is not something that's happened under the biden and administration. that particular person >> i very, very clearly said i spoke to a woman who told me about when she was trafficked, when she was 12. so i didn't say a teenager. i didn't say a young woman, a grown woman, a woman when she was trafficked, when she was 12 shame on everyone else. she seems to be saying for not doing the math in your head and figuring out that she was being misleading. now we might have helped if she'd said in her speech when she was 12 back during the george w bush administration in 2004, when it actually

happened, or if she'd had the grace and courtesy to actually mention the name of this courageous survivor, even the first name but she didn't do that. she just wanted to use her story. she implied this was a story that only she was told and it wasn't. she also implied that it took place the united states and it didn't. and she made this woman the emotional linchpin of her case against the current president. and in case you think that that wasn't deliberate, listen to what senator britt and tennessee republican marsha blackburn said back in january of last year, after meeting in public with karla jacinto >> we've also heard from victims of human trafficking let me tell you those stories are guy chang as she talks about being abused from the time she was five years old to actually being traffic between the ages of 12 to 16 you know, you can't help as a mama, think about your and if we as leaders of the greatest nation in the world, are not fighting to protect the most vulnerable well, we are not doing her job

>> and this is partisan and vice president >> short time ago, cnn tried to ask senator britt about all this. she was leaving party leadership meeting. she declined to comment however, her colleague, roger marshall of kansas, when asked about this woman story not being connected the drug cartel said quote, he said, yeah, i think we could have done a better job with that. i tend to use stories that i know firsthand perspective now from jonathan katz, who's tiktok post got this entire conversation started so jonathan, what first made you suspicious of the senators story? and can you just kind of walk us through how you went about tracking it down? >> well, the whole thing was weird, as you know, the entire speech. the thing that really stuck out to me about that one part was there was this weird combination of extremely lurid detail, but also no detail at all like she she she talked about very specifically the things that happen to this

person that she talked to. but she didn't say anything about where she talked to her, what she knew about her where the events happened when the events happened, and the other thing that confused me at that moment was i was like, well, this sounds like somebody who'd be a perfect candidate for asylum, like did this person get asylum? is this person still in the united states >> and i just was sitting there and during >> the extremely weird kitchen speech, i just started googling and it didn't really take much time at all. i think it's the fastest investigative work are done and didn't you i mean, did you immediately find the press conference that the senator held with this woman and others? >> there are a couple of steps in between. i mean, first i found out that senator britt had been telling the story over and over again because there were a whole bunch of hits for it, even though it made it sound like this was the first time she she had told it. >> yeah. no, that was the first thing. i was like, well, this is not this is not a new story.

this is something that's almost become maybe a stump speech for her in a way and then i realized that she had gone on this trip with marsha blackburn and cindy hyde-smith in january of 2023. and then i looked at senator blackburn's webpage, found that press release and that's when i saw the press conference. they call it a roundtable, but the press conference that they have with this woman, karla jacinto romero. >> i'm wondering what she made of senator britt, defend yourself on fox yesterday because she essentially said, well it was implied. i wasn't i wasn't connecting this the biden administration, even though she was connecting this, the biden administration. and she said, well, i did say this was a child and i was that i'd spoken to a woman assuming i guess that viewers were supposed to have done the math and figured out that this was an old story that was one of the pieces of math that i did. there were a lot of things that were weird about it. that was one of them that she's describing something that happened to somebody when they were 12 years old and she calls them a woman. i was like, well, this couldn't have happened in last couple of years then, so i picked up on that. i think it

was pretty subtle. but i thought her response wasn't really a response at all. i mean, the host on fox asked her very specifically, like, were you were you trying to imply that this happened during the biden administration and then she says, no, and then she goes on talking about essentially how joe biden is responsible for this thing that happened 20 years ago. >> it's also mentioning me that she never used the victim of this name generally, if you're telling the story of some buddy who it's something traumatic has happened to me just as a sense of decency and making them into a actual person you would at the very least use their first name with their permission in your tiktok, you mentioned that reaching out to senator britt's office. i'm wondering if if you ever heard back from them because they've they've put out stuff now, but i'm wondering if they ever actually responded to you because you are the one who really uncovered this. >> they have never responded to me. i was not easy to find her spokesperson, the parent. this is a hard thing to do these

days to find legislators, spokespeople that used to be the easiest thing. >> but i sent him an email immediately. i sent an email that night at 11:20 p.m. or something like that on these coasts. he's never responded to me. all i've seen are the responses that he's given to other people. he said, it seems like everybody else. >> this >> this kind of stock response in which he said that the story was 100% correct. and then i've seen the senator's response on fox news, and i've also seen carlos santos response on cnn, where she said that the story was told without her permission, which was again, i i didn't know that for a fact, but it was just something that i kind of sense there was something that there was something about the way that she told that story that reminded me of the way that unscrupulous people tell stories of people from the global south in ways that center them instead of the people who've gone to the trauma? >> yeah. jonathan katz. thank you so much for talking to us. and i always want to encourage people to check out your new

book. i've just ordered it. gangsters of capitalism and look forward to reading it thank you >> just ahead. how one mother's day photo and the uk turned into a major scandal for princess kate. her apology and the apparent edits that caused the controversy next at morgan stanley, old hardware >> meets bold new thank you >> partnering to >> unlock new ideas to create new legacies, to transform a company? extreme economy generation. because grit envision working in lockstep puts you on the path to your full potential old-school grid, new world ideas. morgan stanle y

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to the rest of the plans of winning is the common. it's >> everybody's called playing the game that we love brings us all together creates only so long. >> so you might as well give it everything. yacht, king's blues capitals board wednesday at seven, tnt >> the first official picture of catherine, princess of wales, since she underwent abdominal surgery in january was released sunday to mark mother's day in the uk, and to put an end to conspiracies about her health and whereabouts. instead, she ended up apologizing for fiasco that ends up doing the exact opposite. max foster tonight has to has the story >> it was meant to quell the rumors. a smiling princess of wales with a three children looking the picture of health, but instead, it fueled them. the photo released on sunday by the royal family dramatically pulled from circulation by several major news agencies later that day, citing concerns that it had been manipulated. the princess of wales apologized on monday, taking personal responsibility for

editing the image like many amateur photographers, she said, i do occasionally experiment with editing. i wanted to express my apologies for any confusion. the family photograph we shared yesterday caused a cnn analysis of the photo found at least two areas which appear to show evidence the photo has been potentially altered including princess charlotte's sleeve, which seems to melt into nothing. and then kate's zipper, which appears to be cut short. cnn is continuing to use the original photo in the context of the debate around its alleged manipulation. a royal source told cnn on monday, the princess made minor adjustments to the image as she shared in her statement on social media, but didn't explain why they weren't transparent about the edits when they shared the image with news media, a pitcher agencies afp, one of the international agencies to pull the photo, stood by its

decision on monday. >> we have a duty of trust towards our subscribers, towards their viewers, and we have to kill the picture. it's absolutely red line that was crossed there in terms of journalism, the image was released by the royals for mother's day in the uk, along with a message from kate thanking people for their support in the past two months the print sas has been out of the public eye since she underwent abdominal surgery in january. this rare glimpse of her on monday spotted alongside her husband william in a car leaving windsor for a private appointment in the vacuum of information and without the regular on-camera appearances conspiracy theories have been swirling thing about the status of kate's health first additions or british newspapers published before the image was pulled by agencies present the picture as happy proof of her recovery. but the subsequent unprecedented withdrawal by some agencies has sent speculation about her wellbeing

into overdrive i'm joined now by max foster and cnn royal commentator and author sally bedell smith. so max, i mean, is this a case of good intentions gone awry? and also, i mean, the idea that she was actually photo editing herself, like she says, many amateur photographers, some amateur photographers do. is that believable? >> well, there's big team around them certainly the narrative is that this was a social post that she put up to reflect a happy day and she went a bit far with the editing and clearly she wasn't very good at it, will have to wait to see what actually happened behind the scenes. but the other side of this is that this picture was also sent out as a press release effectively to the media to use for editorial purposes. they weren't transparent about the fact that had been edited. so there's a big trust issue there now, and they've also got this issue that for weeks now, there's been huge amounts of speculation about a cover-up at

the palace. we haven't given it much credence because it's not based on anything. but now we have to look at those conspiracy theories and consider them because this we're not being given the original photo. we don't know what was in the original photo but it does smack of cover up for a lot of people >> sally, what do you make it this botched attempt to quelling fears over the princesses held >> it was indeed a botched attempt to end if you believe what what is being put out, she didn't have any milan and intent in this. it doesn't appear and i think they even released a statement that there was no use of ai. there was no effort to put an image of her in the photo, but there is other evidence that there have possibly been combined images in photo i think if for motive was to present a happy family and we all know those of us who

have had children, how hard it is to put a family photo together where everybody is smiling. and if she can bind a bunch of images of her children that's not great, but i think more worrying would be if she had manipulated her own image with with an intention of showing her to be healthy. it doesn't seem as if she did that and they went out of the way to say that they that she hadn't used any artificial intelligence. but it's, it's, it's, it's a worrying moment. and i think it's something that the palace has to think really hard about because they above all, need to present authentic images and if they don't, it really damages their credibility. >> i'm actually i mean, wouldn't this have gone through several layers or at least one layer of somebody else's eyes

on this saying, oh yeah, that's, that's fine. that this can be released, right? i don't think or i don't know. you said they have a staff i mean, are they up late at night? just sort of sending out photos to the public? >> they suddenly do send out a minus log of the social media. i mean, i can't say that cake doesn't post your own images. i would find it extraordinary if she actually did. theirs layers of people who are very experienced, who would have thought this was a bad idea. i'm sure i just don't know the background. they're saying so little about it. the big issue they've got here that the monarchy represents continuity stability. there. so careful not to create any sense of panic around anything. but on this occasion, they created panic with this vacuum of information which is filled with a lot of nonsense. but now we're having to look at because they created a lot of people are calling a fake photo, put it out. because they could very easily sally, i

mean, again i mean, you can make an argument. they deserve their privacy and they you know, i mean, i don't really want the best for them. i don't have any stake in this, but if they'd wanted to quell, they say it could just say, look, this was a bad look. i tried to make this look. here's a picture that i tried to put together to try to get all the kids smiling. the picture that would be understandable, but but it doesn't seem like they're inclined to put out any more information about this >> no. and i don't think that's helping them. i think they need to be more clear about a lot of things because if you have a vacuum, people will fill it and they'll fill it with all sorts of outlandish rumors and conspiracy herzi is and theories. so i think i hate the word teachable moment, but maybe this is a teachable moment for them to figure out. i mean, this is a whole new world. ai is zooming along deep fakes are permeating our

culture. instagram is filled with images of people who really don't look the way they do in real life. and i think palace has to figure out how they're going to operate in that kind of environment. >> max foster, sally bedell smith. thank you so much. >> you're welcome. thank you >> just add exclusive reporting and how the biden administration handled the potential threat of a russian nuclear attack in ukraine comes from a fascinating new book by my colleague jim sciutto, the return of great powers, russia, china, and the next world war. he joins us now welcome to the waiver hood, wayfair vibe at airplane western my thing, darling >> gardening >> some of us go for the dramatic >> how did i know we've had vanity's and tile >> this >> ottomans got legs you'll flip for the group size in the

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testified today that ukraine is likely to lose more territory this year without any additional military assistance. the nuclear threat worries. threat worries is one of the insightful stories in jim's new book, the return of great powers, russia, china, and the next world war, which is available tomorrow and jim sciutto joins us now. so can you facts on the book talk about how close the united states thought russia was to actually using a nuclear weapon in ukraine. >> this was a truly scary period. this was the late summer, early fall of 2022, the first months of the russian invasion of ukraine. and it was a number of indicators that may the us make this assessment for one, russia was losing ground in southern ukraine. there was the potential of thousands of russian forces being surrounded as they were treated from her son in the south. and it was the us rate of russian military doctrine that if they felt they were about to lose many thousands of troops, they might calculate that they could use a nuclear weapon to head that off

from happening at the same time, russian officials started to speak publicly about what the us knew to be a made-up threat. and that was that, ukraine was going to carry out a dirty bomb radioactive bomb attack in southern ukraine. and the read of that was that russia was creating a pretext to carry out a nuclear attack to say, well that the craniums are planning this. we're just responding to them. but i think probably the biggest piece of this anderson was that the us also had hard intelligence, intercepted communications of russian commanders talking about the possibility of a tactical nuclear strike. at that point, they said, we have to take this seriously. we have to prepare for all options, including potential military responses to a nuclear strike. >> and what do officials think of the risk of nuclear weapons? i mean, is there a risk now? >> there is a risk because russia has nuclear weapons, particularly tactical nukes, these or battlefield nuclear,

nuclear weapons smaller than the kind of weapon that would wipe out of a city. but in russian military doctrine, they see that as a reasonable response even to a conventional threat. if for instance, they felt that they were going to lose a lot large amount of territory. that's why when you hear and putin just did this a couple of weeks ago again, when you hear senior russian leaders say, hey, by the way, we have nuclear weapons and we might find ourselves in a nuclear conflict. the ears of us officials and european officials perk up because they know that from a machine, russian military person respective, that's at least an option for them and it got so close in 202021 worry that the us had anderson is the tactical nukes are small enough that the us wouldn't necessarily know if russia had moved them into place because they could be fired from conventional systems as well. >> in the book, you also write about national security wildcard potential election of trump again. and i know you spoke with former members of his national security team in foreign leaders. what did they

tell you? >> what tell you the most alarming is that trump and i know he said publicly he admires the putins of the world. does she use of the world? viktor orban, he just said that this week. but general john kelly, who of course was his chief of staff, says that trump repeatedly expressed admiration for adolf hitler to john kelly. and here you have this marine general john kelly saying, excuse me, sir. and trump's saying, well, he did a lot of good things. that's a direct quote from john kelly. what could things mr. president kelly said. he said, well, he rebuilt the german economy in, kelly would say to him, yeah, buddy then use the car, the economy to wage war against europe. and by the way, mr. president, 400,000 american gis died in that war. but it would go on and he would say that, well, hitler's generals were loyal to him. and general kelly would remind trump that wealth, actually hitler's generals tried to assassinate him, but the facts didn't matter. this was a broad admiration that his advisers say trump had four despots, for people with

unlimited power, in part because in their reading of it trump imagines himself as strong as they are and deserving of that same power listen, it's americans are going to have a choice in november about the kind of leader they want. and trump's own senior advisors say this is the kind of leader he is, and he will act on these things as president in a second. >> so inching because there was that sorry, or early on, i think it had been reported initially in vanity fair about him keeping a copy of mine comp by his bedside that people counted tear this from john kelly is incredible. >> it is. and it's consistent, right? because it's the same way he talks about vladimir putin today. or xi jinping orban, who's just been fretting over in mar-a-lago exactly. >> and here's another thing i by the way, this is something i heard not just from americans but from europeans. and i went to eastern europe. i went to ukraine, of course, i went to taiwan and reporting this story is that at the core of this as a fundal fundamental misunderstanding by trump of these people, there's vladimir

putin putin has every interest in undermining the us, in weakening the us in taking things away and breaking down the system that we depend on. same with china. china wants a weaker american, not a stronger one. so trump misreads them when he imagines that just by the force of his charming personality, he's going to change their interests but he won't. these are strategic interests of russia and china in terms of undermining the us and its allies. >> jim congratulations in the book, the return of great powers, russia, china, and the next world war available starting tomorrow and get it right now up next, the new effort by convicted murderers got peterson to clear his name. the killing of his wife if an unborn son more than 20 years later >> the source with kaitlan collins next from friends coming over mom's coming over so many ways to save life,

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disappeared. now the time they were expecting their first child, he was convicted or their murders two years later well, now the los angeles innocence project is representing peterson and focus on what it says is newly discovered evidence and their words in hopes of getting a new trial will look at how we got here. here's randi kaye dance laci peterson, long before the world knew her name, she was just 27 years old when she >> disappeared, and nearly eight months pregnant. >> we all love lacey, we all care for each other and then we're all working towards bringing her home laci, husband, scott peterson told investigators he was fishing in the san francisco bay near the berkeley marina when his wife disappeared. but investigators said his story didn't exactly add up. >> we're just here to confirm or to see if there's any information that lacey was epis area or if the if the husband was here >> while detectives tried to figure out what happened to

lacey, her family and friends organized searches as time went on, lacey story captivated the country. >> we know there is someone who knows something in if that person would just come forward and let us know where she is so that we can bring her home. >> laces february 2003 due date came and went from the fires off of that website and get them to any law enforcement and people's area any hospitals, any birthing centers just keep the word out there because she will be giving birth real soon >> investigators searched the couple's home and questions scott peterson, he kept a pretty low profile until this woman, amber fry expose their six-week long affair during a bombshell news conference, i met scot peterson november 20, 2000 to scott told me he was not married >> we >> did have a romantic relationship >> that relationship investigators believed could have been a motive for scott peterson to kill his wife, had

nothing to do with her disappearance, but people still accuse me of it. >> he also spoke with abc's diane sawyer, you know, the people sitting at home have imagined that either you were in love with someone else therefore, you decided to get rid of this entanglement, namely your wife and your child or there was just an angry confrontation? >> neither of those was the case. is it's that simple. >> despite his claims of innocence, more questions about scot peterson's behavior surfaced investigators wondered why on christmas eve with a very pregnant wife did scot peterson drive a couple hours away to go fishing in april 2003? nearly four months after laci disappeared, her body and the body of their unborn son washed up on the shores of san francisco bay scott peterson

was arrested for days later and charged with two felony counts of murder. he continued to maintain his innocence by june 2000 for scott peterson was on trial five months and close to 200 witnesses, then finally a verdict. >> we, the jury in the above-entitled cause, find a dependent scott peterson, guilty of the crime of murder. >> scot peterson was found guilty of first-degree murder for his wife, laci, and second-degree murder for his unborn child the judge sentenced him to death but in 2021, nearly 20 years after the murders, peterson was re-sentenced to life without parole. after the california supreme court found the jury in his case was not screened properly for bias regarding the death penalty. and now, if he does get a new trial based on what the innocence project calls, quote, newly discovered evidence. he'll have another chance. at freedom >> and randi joins us now. so what more about this hearing

for scott peterson tomorrow? it's going to happen there >> well, we know anderson that scot peterson will join the hearing via zoom from prison, and the hearing really centers around this motion that his lawyers with the innocence project filed with the court. in that motion, they say that scot peterson has maintained his innocence for 20 years. and during that time, he's been working with investigators for years and has discovered what they call this substantial new evidence which you had actually referenced earlier. we don't know what that evidence is, but they say that it does support his claims of innocence. so there looking at the dna, they want some items tested again, retested, and then they also want some new items, new new items tested for dna, and they think that there's something there anderson that could prove his innocence. so we really don't know what to expect tomorrow. we know for sure that no doubt will see more motions filed, more hearings in this case before we know exactly if scott peterson will get a new trial. >> all right. randi kaye, thanks so much. that's it for us. the news continues to source with kaitlan. collins starts now see them wrong