775, 383882, or visit home serve.com i'm sunlen serfaty in washington and this is cnn this is gps, the global public square. >> welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you from new york today on the program america's college campuses in turmoil over the war in gaza is it free speech or threats of violence we have to strong voices with very different view then in israel, plans continue for the invasion of rafah at the white house continues to urge against it. michael oren, israel's former messenger to america, helps examine how this will play out secretary blinken traveled to china this week and gave warnings over beijing's

moscow are us, relations two tenths are not dense enough i'm dr. donald trump's former top china aid math father but first, here's my take it's difficult to know what to make of the turmoil on college campuses these days. >> the protests, polarization, intimidation, and general bitterness in a revealing article in the wall street journal, douglas belkin sets these events against a broader backdrop the disappearance of a sense of community he points to research demonstrating that quote, college students today are lonelier, less resilient, and more disengaged their predecessors. the university communities they populate are socially fragmented, diminished, and less vibrant. one wonders whether this loss of community has led to more distrust, sharper

disagreements, and more anger people are encountering one another at these protests, often for the first time, often as strangers the college campus, i went two decades ago was full of political disagreements. it was the time of ronald reagan, the cold war, the nuclear freeze movement, and divestment from south africa tents and shanty towns were built on the plaza outside the president's office but we also had long and soul-searching debates about the issues and every group i was in at class or an extra curricular organizations, people disagreed about the issues, but they did so seriously, listening to others and engaging in what was mostly civil discourse. though it's easy to romanticize the past when reagan's defense secretary, caspar weinberger came to speak, student protesters repeatedly tried to disrupt his speech but the vast majority in the room most of them almost certainly disagreed with weinberger booed the protesters when i were the elad

was a paste with overflowing classrooms and meeting halls, cake party's debates, plays, and sport events always well attended, which are made for rich community. many of my best friends today are people i met in those packed rooms for decades ago i've returned to my campus several times since then and for many years it felt very much the same place i had been to all those years ago. but over the last decade, campus life has seen thinner and came covid, which like a neutron bomb, decimated community life on campus while leaving all the beautiful buildings intact in his essay, belkin quotes, or residential assistant at another college whose job it was to help socialize the freshmen many wouldn't leave their rooms even for don meetings, asking over text if they could video chat instead? >> the bewildered rass, i was literally across the hall a

college official at another place suggested. >> this may be the new normal. there may be no real return to the past while the pandemic might have been the great accelerator, the decline of social capital, the bonds that sustained communities has been a theme of scholarly work for decades now the seminal work on the topic was in 1995, essay by harvard's robert putnam. later expanded into a book bowling alone the title draws on data that showed that more americans were bowling, but fewer and fewer were bowling in leagues putnam follows the decline of social groups and tries to pinpoint causes the single most consistent predictor he presciently observed was television technology. and the internet have allowed people to make leisure a private rather than a communal activity. it goes beyond college campuses. in my book, age of revolutions,

i point out that what has really caused alienation in america, even when incomes have stayed steady or even risen, has been the collapse of community and small america the mom-and-pop store gone unable to compete with amazon. the corner arcade displaced by online gaming. the local movie theater run out of town by netflix churches were so many americans gathered every sunday are increasingly empty the big metro centers to which everyone has flocked to have communities. but they are communities largely shaped by our jobs the journalist nicholas lemon once noted that he had lived in five american cities, washington, new orleans, austin, cambridge, and pelham according to him, the two quote, most deficient in the putnam virtues, unquote essentially lacking in social capital work, cambridge and washington as he put it, the reason is that these places are

the big time work absorbs all the energy. community is defined functionally, not spatially. it is a professional peer group rather than a neighborhood and it's natural to wonder whether this sense of community is tenuous that is, if you lose your job, your membership in the community is revoked along with it. >> college campuses today are still exciting. >> places are full of smart well-meaning students extraordinary professors, and all kinds of educational and extra curricular opportunities. >> but they have weakened as actual communities where people mingo interact and get to know and trust each other and in this sense, campuses today are not that different from the broader american society of which they are a reflection go to cnn.com slash opinions to read my car on this week and cnn.com slash fareed for link to buy my new book and let's

get started in 1968 at the height of the vietnam war, columbia university was wracked by campus protests in the end, officials, they're called in the police to arrest the demonstrators. history seems to be repeating itself as the campus has, again become the epicenter of protests. classes have gone hybrid and columbia's president, minouche shafik called in the nypd to clear the encampment. they arrested more than 100 students one day earlier, shafik gave testimony before congress in that hearing, republican lawmakers grilled her on what they described as anti-semitism among the protesters. the progress and the responses raised big questions, joining me now to discuss all this, are bruce robins and bret stephens bruce is a professor at

columbia as department of english and comparative literature. bread is a columnist at the new york times bruce, let me start with usc new what do you think has, has gone wrong at columbia over the last few weeks? well most of the faculty and i think the student body think that what's gone wrong is calling the police that the protest was calm well-organized, not violent. there is little if any, intimidation of anyone and there are people who don't agree with the protesters who absolutely don't agree with bringing in the police. i think that's the single biggest thing. the other thing that faculty object to more strongly, again, whatever their positions on the middle east is that in president shah fk506 testimony before congress, she didn't stand up for the principles of the university, which is academic freedom and shared governance due process

transparency read what is in your view what went wrong at columbia over the last few weeks? i don't know if it's over the last few weeks. it's maybe over the last few years you have hundreds of students who are protesting. objective we speaking for a terrorist organization, they're not holding up signs, calling for peace, for the release of hostages. the end of hostilities, they're basically holding up the banners and mouthing the slogans of hamas. some of them which have a clearly violent pedigree when they talk about the intifada. >> but let me ask you about that because you've you're a classical liberal. you've written eloquently about how free, involve speech that offense people is it not okay for people to it's certainly not something i think any honore the stable agrees with, but if somebody were to say i agree with the goals of a mass that is free speech with of course it is. and i supported be protected, i support free speech. okay. there's, no there's no question that should be the standard 30, including saying thing that any

of us might find objectionable or vile. i think part of the problem isn't so much the question of free speech. it's a question of double standards. and what i mean by that is if let's imagine that there were a protest by very aggressive white students marching four white supremacy in a christian university somewhere in the middle of america, making a large percentage of black students on that campus feel profoundly unsafe and worried for their security. i don't think we would be looking at those white students and saying they also have a free, free speech rights. so if the university's one will adopt a free-speech standard, it needs to be consistent and i think that's part of the objection here at harvard. harvard saying they should adopt a consistent free speech. i think they absolutely should, they should lean in the direction of free-speech, provided their common sense rules about time, place, and manner banner of protests disruption, and

conduct that is effectively intimidating. so it crosses the line from speech to conduct. i don't think for instance, there should be a hecklers veto what do you think aroma? >> well it won't surprise you to know that i imagined that i think rather differently about this. first of all, there's an adder, matter of fact, which i have to correct people in the encampment, what we call the encampment. that's the protesters at columbia. they have not shouted out slogans, chanted slogans in support of hamas mass or the wanton destruction of civilian lives on october 7. that is simply not the fact. it's a little upsetting, i think to everybody at columbia that the mainstream media, as well as the politicians have confused things that are chanted outside columbia's gates with things that the columbia protesters are saying. because i mean, i've spent time in the encampment. i haven't heard anything even remotely like

that. there are things i'm sure that ball three of us would have some trouble with that are being chanted outside the gates. columbia is not letting those people in when we come back, we'll dig deeper into the question of free speech versus hate speech versus interior on campus today you think you know the story, but there's more beneath the surface how it really happened with jesse l. martin tonight at nine on cnn. >> if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment immunotherapies with your immune system to attack cancer, but up devo plus your voice is the first combination of two amino therapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread tests positive for pd-l1 and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene up devo plus your voice is not chemotherapy. it works differently it helps your immune system fight cancer in two different ways. up devo in your voice can cause your immune system to harm healthy

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closed captioning brought to you by gilt visit gilt.com today for up to 70% off designer brands has the designers that get your heart racing had inside a prices new every day, hurry. >> they'll be gone in a flash designer sales at up to 70% or so of gilt.com today more now of a conversation about the crisis on american college campuses with bruce robbins, a professor at columbia and brett stephens, columnist for the new york times. >> what is the difference between free speech and speech

that intimidates making somebody uncomfortable? again, like you, i feel awkward i mean, speech, you disagree with this meant to make you uncomfortable, but but it can clearly cross the line into physical intimidation, harassment making people feel they can go to their classrooms or dorm. so how do you, how do you draw that line? >> it's difficult to do it. i don't think there's any easy easy line to draw, but there was a photograph and again, i don't know exactly who the protester is maybe it's an outsider, maybe it's a columbia student appears to be in the quad columbia saying, are carson's next target's al-qassam as the military wing of hamas. and it's pointing at a bunch of students were merely holding it's and american flags. that's a call to kill them. okay. now, maybe in the widest sense of the term that may even be permissive, constitutionally permissible speech. but i would say that's the kind of speech that a university should look very carefully. at at allowing or

rather, i think it should be disallowed when it goes into a sense of true threat, right? then then you're talking about impermissible speech. so two things. first, about that photograph, do you agree that that went too far? >> i haven't seen or heard anything like that around the encampment so 0.1. >> so the the other point bread is making, which i think is fair, which is that universities have seemed to lean against so-called hate speech even if it didn't physically threatened somebody when it was about blacks or panics, the native americans but now when it's a red juice, they suddenly say no, it's all free speech i think we probably have more unpleasant agreement here on this. >> i'm not in favor of canceling people for the kinds of things that they say. i think that people have been wrongly disciplined in one way or another. merely four statements they've made so

about that, my own position is something like this universities don't have to kick can make up their own codes of what is acceptable on on-campus genocidal speech should not be acceptable. it might be acceptable in the united states constitutionally, i don't think there's any place for it on a university campus i also think there hasn't been any on the columbia campus and the things that are brought forward as evidence for genocidal speech, like from the river to the sea, or intifada. they are not genocidal from the river to the sea is genocidal speech and if we were talking about another minority group that told you, when you say this phrase, it has this set of implications. you would take them seriously and i'm just amazed by the dismissively with which so many people view this phrase, which is essentially a coffin elimination of an entire state, okay as it has been constituted, as it has it's

been a member of the united nations for 75 years. so cavalierly to call for the destruction of a state, particularly in light of the way hamas acted on october 7, is genocidal speech and should be recognized that way. okay. when i say something, i'm sorry, i don't want to interrupt you. so as i understand from the river to the sea, it means equal rights for all the people living between the river in the sea now, that's an american value. we believe in democracy. we believe in equal rights for everybody since you were talking about double standards for me, the double-standard is israel is going to be a jewish state it can't be a jewish state and a democratic state. democratic state means equal rights for everybody and the people who heard chanting from the river to the sea are saying for everybody between the river in the sea, equal rights, which is, you could say, the one state question. i realized that not everybody likes the one state solution. i think it's an american value we believe one

man, one vote in your london review of books, i say you talked about how one of the things going on at college campuses, uh, you believe is that people are coming to realize that there are, there are large reservoirs of strong opposition to what israel has been doing for the last few decades. explain that is being misread. your new view as anti-semites that is exactly what i think. >> i think that this is a conjuncture or moment, pardon, with their academic professorial doc it's black lives matter. the covid, pandemic and the fact that the young people these days have access and no offense to cnn to uncensored know gatekeeping, visuals of the destruction in gaza via social media. so they have access to information in a way that they have never had access before. you put all those things together. and i think what israel is doing in

gaza is the symbol of evil for this generation. and the not the poll numbers suggest that there is a wave of feeling, a crystallization just to be clear as a jewish-american, i'm saying there is not an intuition. >> no, no, not at all the simplest thing that we have tried. we jewish faculty there, many, many jewish students who were involved in this um, and we of course feel as jews that were not being recognized because my president is telling me and jewish voice for peace and organization that i admire very much that we're being anti-semitic. i'm sorry. this is a way of being jewish on a secular jew i believe in universal principles, no double standards, no jewish state without equal rights for everybody. so i'm really anti double standards i'm for a two-state solution, which one state solution would be a devastation for the jewish people on a scale that hasn't been seen since the last

devastation a century ago. and right now, this has an interesting discussion because we're talking about academia, but this has effects in the real-world. if the world gets behind the idea that israel's this uniquely malevolent state, saying nothing about serious sudan, china, other abuses, but insurance uniquely, the state that must disappear and becomes the moral cause of this generation of students. we will be rapidly creating the tragedies that occurred on german universities in the 1920s and 1930s where the takeover by the left, that to a takeover by the right. and one of the things that's so disturbing about these protests is there's no allowance for the idea that israelis have suffered. there's no allowance for the idea that this, that this clash in between the israeli palestine's is at a minimum morally complicated password oh gosh, what a responsibility i don't think that people think that israel is unique.

>> example of evil in the world. i think what special about it is it, it couldn't do what it's doing without the support of the united states so students in the united states think we have a responsibility. it's not just somebody else. i mean, we're the united states is not supporting north korea, is not supporting syria. there are a lot of bad places that are doing bad things that equal or worse, who knows, but they're not being supported by us. so we have a responsibility as americans to do something about it. what's being done is being done in my name as an american and being done in my name as a jew. and those things are unbearable to me. >> and i feel the opposite way. i would feel love to see the university protests that ever occurred on behalf of the kurds in their persecution by our allies, the turks or for that matter, any protest about all of the massive human rights abuses. there's one state that's in the crosshairs. it's not an accident, it's the jewish one. >> we have to leave it at that. i hope we can actually have you guys back because this is a fascinating conversation about

an issue that isn't going to go away next on gps is benjamin netanyahu's government listening to joe biden as israel prepares an invasion of rafah i will talk to the former israeli ambassador to washington, michael how far would you go to set the ambiance of your space? >> try the air wigwe with airway ke, central myth infused with natural listen to oils to fill your low bit with immersive fragrance for up to 45 hi days. now that's a breath of fresh air wick. >> this home-style chicken salad rep. from subway. this is how you do it. savory chicken, chris veggies all wrapped up these maps are main thing. people can hear my thoughts. >> that's a problem. >> stay fresh out there. all

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18008 1177. call now how solomon in new york cnn israel has said it cannot eliminate hamas without going into rafah, the southern gaza city but the biden administration has expressed deep concerns about the humanitarian impact of such an assault will israel go ahead with its plans and what would it mean for us-israeli relations? joining me from tel aviv is michael oren, who

served as ambassador to the us under prime minister netanyahu from 2009 two 2013 michael welcome. do you think that israel will go ahead with the rafah play operation as it had planned. >> good to be with you for aid? yes, i do. i think israel is going to go ahead with the raffa operation. it's achieved overwhelming support, both by these israeli public within the government but i think it's just going to have to be very, very cautious to reduce as much as possible the civilian casualties on the palestinian sayyed and try to meet the biden minister thracian to the greatest degree possible halfway. >> i was told that the plans that the israeli government presented to the biden administration the biden administration, todd, we're almost laughable. they were going to put people mill millions of people's intense that it just didn't seem like they had a real plan to

alleviate the humanitarian crisis that would result well, i know that israel has gone and there's really representatives have talked several times with the vital ministration with these plans at these really planners are convinced that these plans are workable and will greatly reduce palestinian civilian casualties. >> the great challenges you're dealing with, the anatomy hamas, which is using these palestinians as human shields. as actually using the, the landscape of gaza's as a shield because underneath the rafah area are dozens and dozens of miles of tunnels. and underneath those tunnels within those tunnels are also israeli hostages, as many as 100 and 30, which we hope remain alive in the hands of hamas so the challenges here are immense and israel is going to have two on one hand, achieve its strategic goal of eliminating hamas and ensuring hamas can not read turn rearm, reorganize, and use gaza once again as a staging ground for barbara's attacks against israel. on the other

hand let me ask for service relationship with the biden administration let me ask you about that. that strategic goal because what we're seeing in northern gaza now is after israel did a massive operation in which has claimed to have eliminated hamas is the return of hamas insurgency, the israeli troops are battling again, this is a familiar, certainly to americans. it's exactly what happened in iraq and afghanistan. >> so this is one of the reasons it seems to me the biden administration was pressing that getting these eliminating these last few battalions in gaza aid enormous cost it's not worth it because there will always be insurgents out there well, i would agree to your qc eliminate hamas as a military threat. you can't get rid of the idea of hamas anywhere, anywhere. you can get rid of the idea of isis or al-qaeda, or even the muslim brotherhood. yes, it's going to be a long-term insert, a

counterinsurgency fight, such as the american waged in iraq and eventually one through its surge in iraq yes, israel will have to continue to fight various cells of hamas that will spring up and not just in gaza, but in the west bank as well. it's an ongoing fight, but eliminating these battalions will remove hamas's ability to reorganize and restage these types of attacks. absolutely crucial. if the biden administration says as a consequence of israel doing this, suddenly they've been saying in the past, it was really policy on raffa doesn't change. then american policy toward israel will have to change presumably that means some kind of conditionality on on the military aid, the united states is giving. if that happens would that have the effect of changing is israeli policy? >> i don't think so. i think israel is committed to concluding that the battle against hamas, again, it has overwhelming support in the american in the israeli public

even at the expense of strange relationship with the biden administration. now, let's be clear. i don't represent the israeli government anymore. i'm not ambassador anymore. and i have my own opinions. i think think that israel can meet the president a halfway on other issues. for example, the biden ministration wants to talk about day after scenario for gaza. might administration wants to talk about the possibility of involving the palestinian authority, which will be revamped a revitalized, with a role in governance postwar gaza, that biden pathway to a palestinian state. i think it's worthwhile for israel to engage in all of these about this. the day after post-world planning it seemed to me we're just saying that israel will have to be essentially in a permanent occupation of golf as i because there will be an insurgency and it will have to fight it. how could, how is that compatible with handing over power? the be is not going to take over. >> and and enforce israel's security concerns by shooting

palestinians. >> is it i don't think it necessarily involves a long-term occupation, but does does involve a long-term israeli evolvement insecurity and israel's involved in security dirty control, even in areas under the palestinian authority in the west bank. >> so there are models for this. >> michael are always good to have you on great to, be with you too. thank you for you. >> next on gps is the biden administration's basic strategy towards china missing guided. that is what former top trump aid and china x. but matthew pottinger says, next tonight, the run hi is of misinformation. >> donie o'sullivan reports from the front lines. >> fair knows, taylor swift as a government cya you don't believe taylor swift is? i don't know what the whole story with anderson cooper tonight at eight on cnn. >> i want a lot of businesses, so my tech and my network need

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serious allergic reactions can occur tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant uc and crohn's and check and keep them there with rinpoche. ask your gastroenterologist about rin voc and learn how avy can help you save. >> i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon and this is cnn this week, secretary of state blinken, traveled to china where he met chinese president xi jinping at a press conference before he left, blinken accused beijing of powering russia's brutal war of aggression against ukraine by supplying products to make things like munitions and missiles. >> it's one of the many stock disagreements between the us and china. joining me is matthew pottinger, who served as donald trump's point man on china. he is the author of an upcoming book called the boiling moat urgent steps to defend taiwan, which comes out in july matt, welcome you also have this extraordinary essay in foreign affairs that i wanted to start with because in

a jew basically say that you think the biden administration has taken some very good and tough steps on china, but it's basic goal is wrong. you say the biden administration is trying to manage competition with china. whereas the goal of the united states government should be regime change. it should be just as it wasn't the soviet union. a policy of containment designed to essentially overthrow the chinese communist party do you think that that is a workable plan for the, for the united states yeah. >> i look i don't explicitly call for regime change in the piece, but what i do say is that we need to recognize that in effective us strategy might naturally lead to some form of regime collapse driven by the chinese people, including members of the chinese communist party, who are already extremely concerned

about the direction that china's supreme leader is steering their country he's taken such a confrontational approach towards the united states. he's fueling wars in europe, the biggest war in europe since world war ii so what we're calling for is a policy that actually aims for victory on the same terms that george kennan described in the at the beginning of the cold war, where basically we would contain the soviets and naturally the soviet system would eventually begin to collapse under its own rotten weight, not because we're pursuing an irac style regime change policy, but in fact that's exactly george kennan was proven, right? four decades later at the end of the reagan administration, when the soviet union just, just kinda went out with a whimper. are you advocating a complete decoupling and disengagement because to get to that policy that you're describing with the soviet union, where you had these two hermetically sealed a

sphere. >> is that the us capitalist sphere and the soviet communist sphere, you would drawing about going in, moving into a completely different world than the one we're in. no global economy and none, nothing like that. >> yeah, it's not a full decoupling, but what really is is about restricting china's clearly stated ambitions to dominate high technology in the 21st century and seeking things has been very clear. he has said that he wants all of the western industrialized nations to be dependent on china. and for china to be completely independent of imports from those countries, except for things like soybeans and corn. so i don't relish the idea of waging cold war. what i'm saying is we need to recognize that seeking ping is already waging a cold war against us seeking ping has said in more than one speech that the primary descriptor of the world today is chaos. he says dot

line chaos and he goes on to say that this is actually beneficial for the chinese communist party's aims in the world he's even gone farther last year when he met with vladimir putin he identified him and putin as the architects of chaos. he said, he said volodymyr, you in the changes that are occurring right now, we haven't seen since really, since world war ii. and he said you and i are the ones driving this change in the world. >> so i got to ask you this map do you think this is a strategy that donald trump would embrace where he to win the white house. and i ask that letting viewers a node then important caveat, which is you did serve as this stop china aid. but on january 6, because of what happened that day you resigned from the white house. you would the senior most white house official to resign but all that said, you know, the man you advise them, do you think this is the kind of strategy? we would be looking at in a second trump term, the advantage of

president trump's approach was that he was willing to be confrontational he was willing to actually impose significant costs on beijing for the types of things that they were doing to undermine our interests he was he put massive tariffs on on beijing. >> now where i actually think president biden has contributed to the overall direction of us strategy is that he recognized prices that we are in a competition explicitly between democracies and friends of democracies. on the one hand, countries that at least respect sovereignty, whether they're democracies are not on one side, on our side. and then countries that fundamentally have contempt for the national sovereignty of their neighbors and are totalitarian governments. let's face it, they're not just beijing is not just authoritarian under seeding, ping is a totalitarian dictatorship. so i think that if president trump were to adopt, if he gets reelected some, some of that cold war framework. i actually think it

would accelerate a successful us policy in a second term matt bought and job fascinating foreign affairs essay. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks for having me fareed how it really happens tonight at nih what cnn there are giant so mug they are the men and women building babies next generation submarines. >> they are giant and what they do because they work in a place where they can grow, where they can learn the skills to build karina's powerful listed beast. we build giant, because it takes one to build one we

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states but my next guest takes a new approach by studying the root of american guns that cross south into mexico often with devastating effects he ever you so neat is an anthropology professor at brown university. >> she also spent years working on the us, border as a paramedic her new book is called exit wounds. how america's guns fuel violence across the border welcome, pleasure to have you on having the name. it it's a wonderful title. exit wounds. explain what you mean so as emergency responders, paramedics and emts, we are looking for exit wounds in order to understand what did the bullet do to the body? >> how can we stop the bleeding as soon as we can? it's not always easy to find exit wounds and sometimes we can't find them. so in a similar way, if we went to understand what two guns due to a society, we're looking for injuries that are

not only physical, but also social, political, economic, because gun violence, not only affects individuals, but extends to families, communities, entire neighborhoods. so the title is showing, that urgency for us to figure out what role do us gun laws, us gun industry. he was guns play in the lives of people. on the other side of the border and how they are paying, then comes back to us. >> so explain, if you will what the role american guns plays in this sort of cycle of violence? >> without the guns, we wouldn't be getting so many drugs and we wouldn't be seeing so many migrants and asylum seekers fleeing the violence because violence in mexico is primarily caused by guns that come from the united states, mexico has very strict gun laws only two gun, shops and the entire country. but the entire

border on the other side of the border in arizona and texas, you have thousands of gan dealerships and it is very easy to buy, very powerful guns that organized crime groups in mexico want. >> what do you think that most americans don't understand about this whole situation? now that you've studied, it gives you talk about how this militarization actually enriches the cartels that struck me is a fascinating point. >> that's a very important issue. we think that if we build a bigger wall or longer wall, or send the troops to the water we will prevent people from coming and we will keep violence on the other side of the border. but that violence is created by our own tools, by the guns we produce and making this country. so the more we militarize the border, the more difficult it is for both migrants to reach safety, but also it increases the profits of organized crime groups who compete for these diminishing routes to take because you

require more and more professional, militarized cartels to break through exactly and more powerful weapons so it feels like there are all kinds of reasons to have stronger gun laws in the united states. >> but do you think it's fair to say that if you had stronger background checks and all that kind of stuff, it would also make a big difference in terms of the violence and the entire way in which the border has become so militarized. >> so pervaded by gangs and cartels. >> stronger gun laws would help anything that increases gun safety in the would help however, i do not think that we can only use laws to solve this problem because as long as there is demand for guns isn't the united states, there will be supplied. this is how illicit economies work that said, if we made it more difficult for organized crime groups together, hand of truckloads of ammunition in

texas or arizona and ammunition sales or even less regulated or not regulated entirely compared to guns then there will be fewer police officers killed in mexico. there would be less than security in mexico. so there is a direct connection such a pleasure if hear from you. >> this is a site of this that i think none of us have paid enough attention to thank you very much thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. >> i will see you next week adrenaline. just like every turn my. >> shot of adrenaline right to the heart f.

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