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wait 180688 1,300 call now blasting the air conditioning because the temperature breeze pulls his cooler all night long i'm omar jimenez, at, columbia university, and this is cnn breaking news it is the top of the hour, 2:00 p.m. here on the east coast, which means it is deadline time at columbia university in manhattan. >> the school has given pro-palestinian protesters until right now to either leave campus or faced suspension. this deadline coming this morning after school officials announced negotiations, crow protesters had failed. >> it appears though many demonstrators inside the encampment are refusing to leave voting to stay beyond this 2:00 p.m. deadline. that has just passed there for expected to hold a news

conference just 30 minutes from now, we have reporters being allowed onto the campus right now for the first time today, are omar jimenez is among those making his way in and we will go to him shortly live first, let's go to miguel marquez was just outside of campus where protesters have gathered. miguel what? are you seeing there yeah. >> this has been weeks of action in reaction and i want to show you some of the reactions that call went out this morning that if the protesters did not leave the encampment by 2:00 p.m. today, they could face suspension or other disciplinary actions for the walk around here down the sidewalk that police have moved in pretty quickly instead of barricades, we just want to walk along the protests here to get a sense of how big it is several dozen, others, a lot of median here as well these individuals can get onto campus all of the the waves onto campus right now are being controlled by security of

security for columbia university. and nypd is now on the scene as well. nypd moved in pretty quickly once they called for for protest. so they put out a call for protests around noon that the protesters who are indian cabinet in the main lawn in columbia diversity what you're looking at down the street here, that's the bookstore and you can see all those people in those barricades that police have set up down there as well. they're trying to create a situation where they can put protesters and media and students and keep them separated. very long lines for students right now to get onto columbia university, this is crunch time as well. this is the end of the semester and a lot of them have tests and exams that they have to get done. and then commencement in a couple of weeks. so there's a lot happening here at columbia university if we just keep walking down the street here i'm going to show you sort of these gates are the closest to where the protesters are inside columbia, which is only about two or 300 feet inside there. but you can see students so

trying to get in there police now, at this as nypd now at this gate that was earlier, it was just security, but protesters still inside the main line at columbia back to you guys. >> all right. miguel marquez, just outside columbia university, you can see those barricades there. and as miguel was just saying, a greater presence by the nypd are omar jimenez has made his way inside onto the campus of columbia, university of columbia university at the encampment omar, the administrators had to ask those protesting to leave a by 2:00 p.m. is there any sign that anyone's leaving and his disbursement well the sign that we have right now is these are all protesters that have now encircled the encampment here. >> they're just marching in a circle around the encampment over over for and over again, doing so essentially multiple times since we've seen here, there are plenty of people still inside the encampment right now. we don't see at

this point any efforts from the university to go in and forcibly removed people. but of course we are now past that to pm deadline where these students were given a choice to either clear here are the encampment voluntarily or face suspension. now, look, you can see just the mass scale of the amount of folks that are circling here. this is outside the baker library here at columbia, which has sort of been right out in front of what has been the focal point of the encampment here now, as you just heard from ego but there are also protests happening outside of the gates of this university tied likely to this deadline. but we have seen this from the beginning, that this encampment has said from the beginning that they wanted the university to divest from israel. we heard this morning, that the university had reached an impasse on those negotiations. essentially truly ending those negotiations and flat out saying definitively that the university will not divest in israel. and then of course, we have hours later they set this deadline for them

to leave. and if anything, we have seen it only being more emboldened over the course of campus here. now, there is at least one student grip now suspended soon group at an encouraged that had encouraged people to show up here around noon, like two hours before this actual deadline to protect the encampment whether that had to do with what we're seeing right now. it does seem that that may be part of why they are encircling this particular camp in the numbers that they are also i should mention, right bo for this to pm deadline, the students inside this encampment voted to stay. there was a vote that was held and there was a large number of them, a majority, as we understand that voted to stay in this encampment of course, face the consequences that you knew that the university has promised that they will face up to this point even at one point in trying to tell people who are here on visas that you should think long and hard about staying in this in kammen. now, i'm talking to you within the first literal

minutes of us stepping into campus, so we haven't gotten a chance to sneak in hear from students just yet, but you know what, let's let me try and ask one of these students here. >> excuse me. guys, didn't the encampment earlier and you guys came out to protest. what is the purpose of the circling and protest? >> so i think around it's like more people like call me over just a support and i think because for foot from the camp that i can see that there are less people compare with this good morning. so i think part of it and like including the outside to protect the camp. >> so were you in the camp before the 2:00 p.m. deadline and then you left when it came yeah. >> why did you choose to leave so yeah. >> just came out yeah. >> i didn't leave or sign like a message like i didn't cite the slip or if that's what you're referring to, came out to listen to the speech and then i go in circles. so yeah.

gotcha. >> and the circling right now is to protect the encampment and why why are you all protecting the occasion? why do you feel the need to biggest school like, of course, they send us an email saying like, okay, the police are like calling the police again, is not effective and you're probably backlash even look like a larger extent, but like but are like our demands are not met just because you're not getting the police to arrest us, doesn't mean that you know, like our demands are met. >> so that's why we feel the need to continue to protests. and this camp is a symbolizes like the ever start of the students incumbents, like around their eyes states, and also like in the wider part of the world. so will feel the need to protect this intact and also yeah. >> what's your name sorry.

>> i can say. >> okay. i can touch it. no all right. >> all right. so she's not going to give her de but obviously you hear that they are circling this encampment to protect being kammen as part of their protests here. and she was one of those students. are they were one of those students that was inside the he came at prior to the 2:00 p.m. deadline. and while they didn't fully leave, they decided to the next phase of letting their voice heard would be to circle and trying to protect here. now, they mentioned the police department being called that happened in the very early days of the encampment. and yesterday, the university president said that they did not. they thought it would be counterpart reductive to call them this time and that's part of why likely part of why we're seeing this internal step being taken now, though, what happens from here on out, because clearly there are folks that are defined as deadline. we still do not know she's not telling you her name. >> certainly these students feel that they under are under threat of suspension pension, or maybe even worse for as you mentioned, those who have

visas, omar jimenez, thank you for that live report from columbia. we will continue to keep an eye on what is happening. there's this deadline has just passed by nine minutes and students are in circling the encampment. there are we're joined now by hagar chemali, who has an adjunct professor at the university thank, you so much for being with us regard this deadline has passed just several minutes ago. the university has said students are subject to suspension if they do not leave this encampment one student groups said, we have informed the university that we're prepared to escalate are direct actions that they do not adopt basic standards of conduct for negotiations. that's sort of an umbrella group of a number of student organizations what steps do you think administrators should take to de-escalate the situation? >> oh, just tough question. less i can tell you, having seen from the from the inside that the dialogue that the administration is pursuing, the students particularly since the last arrests that took place

about ten days ago that they've been in very good faith and we i know we as faculty, we've been we've been kept informed multiple times a day, sometimes at 2am and before am and i mean, these are they are working around the clock to do these, to pursue these dialogues. and they were really hopeful. i mean, all the messaging up until this point was that the dialogue with the student protesters was in progress, that they were facing progress that they were improving because the students were changing certain things and agreeing to certain things like less inflammatory rhetoric, no anti-semitism or hateful language, which i myself saw on campus, by the way and so things, it looked like they were improving and the campus, the administration really did not want to get to this point and they made that very clear. they said over and over again, they don't want to invite the police to campus. but at the very end of the day, there are rules. this is exam week kids need to be studying. >> they need to be focused. and the fact is that you've got a minority of students who are creating an environment that is very difficult to work to pursue studies at many who feel

on khan top of it unsafe. and that rules if they're not going to be enforced are useless. and so i don't know how it's going to happen. i will tell you that if they're suspended, then given the rules right now, they will be trespassing on campus. and so hopefully that it will end peacefully with security and not the police itself. but it is a possibility always at the police are invited back. >> hagar, we've seen and heard all kinds of things from these protesters, calls to end the war calls for divestment from israel. some truly horrific examples of anti-semitism. you are a national security professional. i know you've been following this war in gaza very carefully. how much of what we're seeing now, particularly some of that ugliness that i just mentioned. do you think would disappear if that war ended in gaza today or do you think? get something has been unleashed that will be difficult to erase well, i think you have two issues at hand. >> so if you have if you had a ceasefire this week, which by the way it is possible, israelis have proposed a

ceasefire that he's right now in hamas is lab, as we speak, secretary blinken came out and said it was, quote, extraordinarily generous and he hopes hamas takes it. >> and if you have a ceasefire i definitely think it would calm tensions down for sure so that the protests aren't as heated, but you're still going to have protesters want divestment. maybe they're going to want aid to israel to be conditioned, for example those desires i think are unleashed and will still be there. but the, but my concern as a professor and it also i would say as a different generation, there is a generational divide here in what seems acceptable in terms of language and views among these protesters who call for intifada, who call for resistance by any means necessary things of this kind and that's what i am concerned because that when you're going down that path of questioning the right of israel to exist. it means that this type of issue is going to linger on for awhile. and there's some real education there that needs to happen. kids don't seem to even understand what is anti-semitic

language and that's my concern is that you were going to see some things linger. but the immediate protests, right now. yeah. you'll see a little calm down. if the war ends or if there's a temporary ceasefire. >> as you say, there's a potential for a ceasefire that's being discussed in cairo as we speak among all the parties hagar chemali, you thank you so much for joining us today. really appreciate it. >> we also have some breaking news right now protests are growing on the university of texas that's the austin campus. cnn's ed lavendera. is there? ed, what are you seeing on that campus this is a situation that is quickly developing here on this campus. >> alex, would you see behind me is a number of protestors because you had been gathering out here throughout the morning, having poetry readings, some art sessions that what was supposed to have been billed as a educational setting of a protest that some professors were also holding a silent vigil. but then in just a matter of moments, these protesters gathered up all the tables. are there, have now

encircled this and set up some tents and they're now calling this the liberated zone on the south mall of the campus. and let's be clear, it is a very small gathering at this point, but this is exactly the kind of seen that university officials have been very clear that they were not going to allow in any kind of way. in fact, some speaking with university officials over the of course of the last week, there was definitely a sense that what they had seen play out at other campuses across the country. they did not want to see play out here. in fact, just a moment ago, if from the university police department, they sent out a campus wide dispersal order telling these protesters that they are in violation of university rules and gathering rules, and that they will face arrest here for disorderly conduct that they do not disburse right now, the police presence we can show you off to the side is just a handful of austin police officers. they're under the trees and in some areas he clearly get the sense that right now what law enforcement is doing is trying to assess

the situation, figure out what they're going to do next. i must point out again that this all kind of develop very quickly. not as a university professors were finishing up in wrapping up a silent vigil on the steps of the ut tower. and this is a significant location, alex, here on this campus, we should point out because here in the coming weeks this is the area that is used for the university-wide commencement ceremony. so this is an area that obviously university officials very concerned about. and this is the kind of thing that they were trying to prevent. but this is also a situation that we could see potentially escalating here in the hours ahead, alex and ed, i do want to ask you part of the reason we're keeping such an eye on ut austin is because of what we saw there last week, you had a number of colleges across texas in the ut system where students gathered and they protested. >> but the reaction by law enforcement was different at ut austin, you add almost six

steep people, a number of them students arrested, eventually they were barred from campus and then the university kind of walk that back. now they're totally allowed back on campus it is interesting is you see law enforcement kind of off their to the side assessing the situation. what's the thinking there of campus officials? it is they try to maybe avoid some of what happened last week while i think what we've heard over the last week in this is going back to last wednesday when you saw this massive presence of state troopers show up here on the campus, as you mentioned, nearly 60 people arrested for trespassing it also point out that the county attorney those were misdemeanor misdemeanor charges. all of those charges were dropped against the protesters. >> but there was always a great concern that they did not want to allow any kind of encampment, any kind of tense that would prolong and create a situation where the protests are two would be on campus for

an extended period of time as we've seen, play out at other campuses like columbia and yale across the country. i think the university administration here had seen that they were thinking they would much rather ended as early as possible and not allowed that to happen. that is their thinking these protesters obviously feel very differently that they have the right to free speech and to be able to voice their opinions about what is happening in gaza and in israel. so that is the dynamic that is playing out here. here in this very kind of significant part of the university of texas right hand lavendera live for us from austin will keep an eye on the situation their stay with cnn news central. we're following all of the breaking news on college campuses. >> these are live pictures that you're watching of columbia university. we're also keeping our eye on developments in israel and the gaza war. >> we'll be right back every

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in tel aviv. now columbia has warned the protesters that if they don't leave that space, if they don't decant from the center of campus that you're looking at right now, the students would be suspended, so get straight back to cnn's omar jimenez at columbia. omar, you made your way in there just a short time ago. we had heard that protestors are going to be holding a news conference any minute. what can we expect from them? >> yeah. right now, we're waiting to see if that actually materializes because what we're seeing right now is a group of protesters that is now in circling the encampment. so you see them, they're essentially walking back around me and around the encampment here, little by little, they've done it repeatedly and then you see over to my right here this is the encampment itself, so it's right in the middle of essentially the main quad here at columbia university. this is where the universities said students should be vacating at 2:00 p.m. local time. otherwise, they faced suspension. clearly, we so see folks inside and before this

2:00 p.m. deadline, there was a vote. were students, the majority, as we understand, voted to defy that to p.m. deadline. and now, when it happened, obviously, the university had threatened essentially for these students who signed on to the university policies or face suspension. and that is when these students, some of whom were inside the encampment prior to the 2d pm deadline, came outside. and then now are in circling it to try and protect it, to catch people up on this saga. this goes back almost two weeks ago to this point, the first day of the encampment essentially started with the president minouche shafik testifies buying on capitol hill about rising antisemitism on college campuses, then not long after that, a university at the direction of the university president called him the new york police department to clear out this encampment. it drew a lot of criticism from not doing but faculty as well who believe that's what raise the temperature, not just at this campus four other places as well. so then the camp came

back day after day. we sought their with tension's going back and forth. we had a student organizer for it, kicked off of campus for comments and cosmetic comments. he had made in the past. and then there were negotiations between the university and the student protesters were trying to voluntarily get this encampment off the off of the campus or at the very least, come to some sort of resolution. this seems to be the first step by the university to test whether they will do so voluntarily. what remains to be seen as what happens after this? because clearly there are those that have defied that first deadline yeah, it doesn't look like that's gonna happen anytime soon. >> omar jimenez on columbia university, humble university's campus, we back with you as the day unfolds, i want to bring in a cnn senior political analyst, mark preston. mark, as we watch these protests spread, we have new cnn polling showing just how much americans disapprove of biden's hand handling of this war between israel and hamas. it obviously extends well beyond just those college

campuses. and in those college students. so what are you seeing in these? nothing? >> well, you know, alex, we do have this new poll out right now that in these images are certainly not helping joe biden when he's trying to deal with this israel, situation, look at these numbers right here. how is joe biden handling? this situation right now, only 28% of americans right now approve of how key is handling this situation between israel and hamas. but what is even more difficult and you can put a number to a face right now is look at how he is doing with young kids right now look at these numbers right here. his approval rating with people under the age of 35 on this hamas issue is 19%. now when you're going into an election year right now, and you are looking at a key constituency of your voting block, young people for democrats, that is incredibly troubling right now for the biden administration, he's having a tough time as well when it comes to his own party and he's got to work to regain some trust there if he wants to repeat obviously, a win here in november, only 40 per six, 46% of democrats

approved of his handling of the gaza situation. >> we are seeing this play out right now, not only here on college campuses in the halls of congress, you were seeing you know, the likes of omar jimenez going excuse me. omar, our guy out there. but you're talking about members of congress right now who are, who are at odds with the administration coming out publicly criticizing the biden administration joining these protests in some cases, and in fact, we're even seeing is split amongst democrats were now writing letters saying that they want these college campuses protests to end because because they know that it's a political loser for them. >> i think it was 21 democrats who wrote that letter. that's a fair bit of overlap with republicans, which, you know, better than we do. you rarely see these days in congress. yeah, you certainly don't provide certainly on this issue marc preston. thank you very much. don't go anywhere. we are following all of this breaking news is protests all across the country roe, stay with us we have a concept here,

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visit coventry direct.com erin burnett, outfront tonight at seven odd cnn also breaking right now, protests are growing on the university of texas at austin campus. >> cnn's ed lavendera, is there ed, tell us what is happening there behind you? >> well, here in just the last few minutes, briana, things have completely escalated. you see the protesters here behind me, but now we have nearly 50 state troopers that have shown up. they have given a dispersal order and we understand that these troopers are about to

move through the south mall area to move the protesters that have set up an encampment, at least a small encampment, we should say on the what is the south mall of the ut campus. so we understand that here perhaps in just a matter of moments, if these students are these protesters do not it's burst that they are going to be coming through here to clear this area out. this took place here within the last hour or so there had been what had been described as an educational event that was taking place here from the grounds are just suddenly the protesters gathered up the tables and certainly now they're describing this as a liberated zone of lot locking i'm just keeping anybody from going inside where they have set up a number of tents. university officials have been clear that we're not going to let allow any kind of encampment take place here on the campus. so they had been telling the groups in the protesters at this kind of these kind of protests would not be allowed

and here within the hour of this happening, we saw a number of police officers showing up. they had been keeping their distance for a while. briana, but here in the last few minutes, this group of state troopers in riot gear facing masks, head coverings that sort of thing i have now shown up here on campus or has been another official who has been giving them a dispersal orders and time to disperse, but clearly, this is a group of protesters, albeit small, but are not going anywhere at this point. and inside that circle where protesters are locking arms, there are a number of tents that had been set up. there has also been a university-wide cell phone alert that has gone gone out to the entire campus, the entire student body saying that these protesters are in violation of university rules. and that they do not disperse, that they will be arrested and taken in for orderly conduct. so this is the scene that we're watching unfold here as essentially it is a standoff at this part with

crowds gathering. you can see just beyond the state first university officials have set up barricades not allowing other people in the public to get down into this area. and there's just a number of onlookers waiting to see how this is going to unfold then what's going to happen here in the coming minutes? riana all right. >> and will be certainly watching, especially after what happened last week as it was quite an escalated situation with dozens of arrests, ed standby for us, if you would. thank you. >> i'll bring in cnn presidential historian attempt naftali, who in addition to being a historian, is also an adjunct professor at columbia university, where of course we've seen all of these protests unfolding. tim, in terms of the impact that protests can have which of course we've seen for years in the united states, it's almost a tradition on college campuses. >> what kind of impact can they have in terms of bringing about policy changes? >> both of the campus and university level, as well as at the national level well we're. >> living in an era of

demonstrations. it's not, they're not simply just student demonstrations. we we have witnessed in the pandemic. pandemic era, if you will, we've seen demonstrations we to demonstrations we've seen demonstrations regarding black lives. matter in support of black lives matter after george floyd's murder for another generation, there's a memory of the occupy wall street demonstrations so it's not simply a matter of high tensions and political controversy on our campuses there have been a lot of demonstrations and so what we have to come to terms with now is that part of our political culture at the moment? is expressing oneself in dramatic terms and students are reflecting, they are maybe at the front line of this, but

they're not the only ones we're expressing themselves strongly so we're seeing it now on campus. and what is what is healthy about this, of course, is the ability in our country as opposed to iran and other countries to express oneself and express one's disappointment and moral average the challenge however, is that the expression, the expression of these ideas can create unsafe spaces and on college campuses, administrators are having a difficult time balancing free speech and security and the right to go to class and the right to take exams and today is a tough de, because the administration of columbia drill red line and the students, as i noticed when i was walking around the campus, they voted to cross that red line and i think the university faces now a very difficult decision perhaps the university

even regrets the fact that it drew a red line when it should have anticipated that the students are the processors would cross it yeah, that is a lot. >> if they are going to suspend all of those students, you can just see from these pictures that we're looking at here from columbia university, how many students potentially we're talking about that could be suspended because of this. i also tim, there's this balancing that these campus communities are doing between free speech and between campus safety specifically, we've heard from so many jewish students who do not feel feel safe. then on the flip side we have to look back in history. so let's do that as well, because as we've heard, and specifically it's really some republicans calling potentially or actually for the national guard to get involved for this to even be more than outside law enforcement, but to really really escalate this, there are some comparisons or concerns that require us to look back at the kent state university massacre in 1970, which was a

huge moment when it came to the vietnam war and opinion about it for students killed after the ohio national guard came in there, how are you reflecting on that amid this debate? >> why i feel an emotional connection to that, kent to kent state, not not because i really remember it happening, but a colleague of mine sorry, i'm going to have to interrupt you, tim, i'm so sorry to interrupt. >> you. were going back to to add lavendera, who's at the university of texas at austin. and i hope you can hear me we see that there is law enforcement that appears to move closer there to protesters on the south mall at the campus. this follows quite an escalatory interaction between law enforcement of protesters last week, ed, what are you seeing? >> well, we all know state troopers have now encircled with encampment inside inside

the south of, texas campus? this is being inside here set up a little more the state tuples? have come in an encircled beam circle so what happens next is not clear. i'll be jackson's or chen the officers to get who say troopers to get off the campus. but he was clear here in the last 30 minutes or so that law enforcement has been tried to figure out the plan to disperse for this crowds from the obviously, there's hearkens back to what took place here on the university of texas campus. last one or more than 60 people were arrested. for intense and very violent situation. so this is the situation golden, you have state troopers and local police circling the state troopers with their bicycles here at the scene, looking, trying to move are way around as much as we can so here you

see from anywhere around on either side of the circle or any of the tuple officers are making their way to make it less at this point right now is just another standoff for the troopers have moved from about 2030 yards away and encircled this enhancement. >> you see the protesters inside there actually using the tables that were set up here on the south wall ontario for much of the morning as they were making posters in an x sort of thing. >> they're having poetry readings. and then all of a sudden he's tables were picked up and used as a barricade to keep people from entering. this small little area where a number of tents have been set up, obviously, with the footprint of this is not incredibly significant, but obviously a symbolic situation here, as these protesters and this group has been told for

days now that this kind of protest would not be allowed on the university of texas all campus. and that is why university officials say they called him the state troopers and department of public safety last week to prevent any kind of long-term and cabinet but grounds of the university. and obviously this area of this campus, extremely significant because this is the area we're in the coming the university-wide a commencement will be held this is one of the most prominent spots on this university campus but right now as we continue to see the standoff, you see a police officers and circling the state troopers with the bicycles to keep the crowd that is not inside this encampment. away from these protesters protesters chanting at troopers to get off our campus obviously, they're not going anywhere in this situation that we will have to see how it unfolds. who became very tense, often violent last week with the number of a lot of shoving,

pushing more than 60 people arrested last for disorderly conduct those misdemeanor criminal charges have been dropped by the county attorney. but the group that had originally organized all of this, granite has been temporarily suspended on aaron basis. so obviously, that is a situation that either also many of the people who were in these organization as well, but obviously that is going to i would imagine that but that the interim status could could could be changed here in the coming weeks and de so almost beside the point at this moment as we can see you here we honored. watch this standoff kinda unfold here. as we wait to see exactly how state troopers are going to handle and clear out this group from the south mahiu in the university of texas hey, ed, it's alex. >> i want to do you have a sense of whether the state

troopers so are the police have given some kind of warning, any indication of what they're preparing to do clearly, as you say, they're looking to isolate those protesters. there and essentially surround them and those state trooper that the state trooper certainly look like they are at the ready and we have seen some violence from them in the past. they have those riot helmets on there khan's at the ready. but what kind of warning, if any, have they given to those protesters about 30 minutes ago, i think there was an texting oh, no notification urging people that they needed to disperse from this area. >> the anyone who did not disperse would be arrested. that was done over for the text communication, the university-wide notification, and then just moments ago, there was someone who came on with a loudspeaker by telling this group they needed to disperse and so there had been warning sent out here periodically within the last

hour or so those warnings, adenosine suitably, all all the protesters that were inside this encampment area have also receive that notification so now we will see just how much more time these these officers give the protesters from an ad just to point out, you are very close. to the capitol and as we learned last week, when the texas department of public safety officers responded, it was at the request of the university. they said, but at the direction of republican governor greg abbott and i wonder what especially in light of the fact that a number of other campuses across texas did not see a similar response. >> but ut austin did. what are the political overtones? that are playing out? what is the political debate like? they're in the capital about what's

going on while the governor of texas, greg abbott, has been very to clear and obviously hold on one second. racine officers starting to try to break their way. here we go officers there thank you in a way, the tables and starting to make their way inside the we've seen one one person taken into custody just here off my shoulder i'm as being zip-tied right now as we speak and we see let's state troopers are trying to keep the onlookers away hey, to allow other officers to get inside the encampment. many of the

protesters continuing to lock arms and we've seen here over the last hours that many of the organized there's in this group were urging people to stand on the edge of the encampment and to lock arms should be able to keep officers and anyone else from getting inside inside the circle. >> but now it appears that it's the state troopers that are setting up a barrier around that is allowing police officers to get inside there and they're starting to break away the tables that were set up here for interpersonal we have i'm trying to make their way through here give me one moment. briana, is we tried to kind of assess the situation. this is in circled in are probably about 20 yards across from one side to the other. so it's not a enlarge seen that were soon her but slow local police department university

police, as well as austin police, breaking away the these tables protesters had been using to essentially serve as a wall around the sun in camera. >> so we've seen that kind of initial penetration by law enforcement here on the graph. >> some on-lookers are continue to gal at the state troopers that are allowing that, but it doesn't appear from this area that we're at that any people had been taken into custody he soon we hear a group of people cheer asking for a medical so i don't know exactly what has happened, but i don't see any other police officers at this point trying to break their way into the encircled area let's see if they continue you and

ryan all right. >> stay where that's going to come back to in just a moment as this unfolds at the austin campus of the university of texas, i want to bring in ed davis, who's the former boston police commissioner. and ed, i want to get your sense of what we're looking at here. you have multiple police agencies including the department of public safety, so that the state troopers, as well as some local police, i noticed that when you look at those state troopers, they were not wearing gas masks and that may be an indication that perhaps they're not ready to use some of the more aggressive tactics, like pepper spray like tear gas, some of those protesters, i should note, we're holding umbrellas, which i've seen protesters used to shield their identities, but also to shield things like pepper spray. what

do you make of the posture that we're seeing from law enforcement there on the austin campus well, it would appear as though there is some type of action of being prepared for the officers will put on equipment that is consistent with what the threat is that they're facing so sometimes you can go to these things with no equipment are all on and have a very soft approach in moving on on a crowd. >> when you get a crowd as raka says we're seeing here then you have to step up the protection for the officers because real this is about everybody going home safely at the end of the day and and when you have a group of offices that you sending into dismantled an organizational event like this the possibility of things being thrown from the crowd is very high. we had that happened in boston sometimes they throw water bottles

sometimes it's rocking some bottles and the potential for injury two people on both sides is significant. so the offices will put on gear that they are commanders have deemed to be appropriate for the threat to they're facing. >> it seems on based on what the charges were, for the arrest last week almost 60 people arrested a number of them students, but certainly not all of the med, it was trespassing, right? there were not any arrests. as we understand it. and we are watching some pictures here. is they're clearing some protesters out or maybe is this for moments ago or is this live? marty, is this from moments ago or is this live that we're seeing on the right side of our screen at ut austin i'm trying to get an answer there as we look at these pictures, these are live pictures that you're seeing as you see law enforcement engage with protesters but just to ask you and you see arrest there with zip ties of law

enforcement. there are protesters to ask you, it seems the main concern is trespassing. not that these protesters were doing anything violent. that's not what the charges a reflected. eventually, the county attorney dismissed all of the charges. so it'll be curious to see what happens today here. how does law enforcement factor in their response when you have that? consideration they may be gathering in a place where the university does not want them there clearly setting up an encampment which the university does not want this is an area where commencement is going to be happening here. just didn't of a couple of weeks how does law enforcement balance that will also trying to make sure they don't escalate the situation this is a very difficult issue i've spoken to mares and college officials. >> so over the course of this past week and it's really a balancing act. and you know

people have a right to free expression into the first amendment right to make their positions known. there is no right to campos it a particular place there is no right to take over a building and you know, as the old saying goes, your right to swing arounds is stops the at the tip of my nose. so you've got the right to free speech. and that has to be protected. and i know that the college officials and the mayors that are dealing with this problem right now are talking to constitutional attorneys free speech experts i'm trying to work around the issue of allowing people to express themselves. but at the same time keep the space open for the college students and so the idea of camping honore particular area is not protected speech. >> and so when they start to

disrupt, when the protesters start to disrupt the normal course of events, the officials be in a mayor or a university president, are a combination of those people? >> in the courts because we petitioned the courts to get permission to remove an encampment when we were dealing with that and advise them. >> those three things come together. >> and a decision is made, then the police get their orders and they don't look at the insulin based upon the prosecution afterwards. they look at whether or not direction is legal, lawful, and appropriate to protect the rights of everyone. at some point in time the university president, the mayor will call the police and say we want to clear this encampment. and the police going to try to do it as safely and without believing nobody wants to see fighting on tv, the kalisa painfully aware that whatever they do is going to be examined very closely. but if

if the if the protesters want to fight, that, they have to respond with appropriate force and i've looked at documents today, the protesters sending around, talking about how to resist and how to push back whenever that happens, you get a scrum like this, which is really not good for anybody headway, only about 30 seconds left so if you're what you're saying is that unless they you invest the protesters used for us, which so far it appears they have not it does. if you don't think that the state troopers will use force either will the state troopers may have to use force to unlock their arms or to take sometimes they they wrap blocks and chains around each other. there is a level of forced, it's necessary to remove the student sometimes passive resistance requires forced to overcome, but the police have to be measured in their response and it has to be consistent with

the resistance that they're getting from the people they're trying to move all right. >> and davis, thank you so much. standby for us if you would for those who are joining us, we are watching these live pictures out of austin, texas at the university of texas at austin, where state police and local police are there trying to break up an encampment that has formed on campus where in just a matter of a couple of weeks, commencement is supposed to be held. this is a developing situation that we're keeping our eye on. there have been some encounters, but between law enforcement and students, we're going to keep watching. this will get an a quick break and be right back we're here to get your side of the store. a bribery prostitution. why do we keep ending up? >> you can't write this stuff. >> united states of scandal with jake tapper. now streaming on macs what's a push of a

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