no, no, no, i never can say good-bye ♪ tonight, michael jackson's friends speak out on the private side of a public figure. >> when he was with me, the mask came off, the glove came off. >> >> larry: on the sorrow they feel. >> there's no reason for this person to be dead. >> larry: how michael was doing the day before he died. >> he never complained, never said you know what, can we take a five-minute break and let's chill? >> larry: michael jackson's last days are next on "larry king live." lou ferrigno, he's got millions

of fans all over the world, known as tv's incredible lull can, close friend of michael jackson for many years. he was working with michael as a personal trainer. did you see anything wrong with him? >> he was great. you know, larry, i don't know where to begin because i was devastated. when i was with michael, i train him on and off for 15 years. when i saw him he looked fantastic. the way he moved it, i worked with him different exercises, and i've never seen him look better. >> larry: so are you shocked then? >> devastated. i you am devastated. i just wish it was like a dream because we were close friends. we were together. it was lou and michael, it wasn't michael jackson, lou ferrig ferrigno. we were friends. we had the camaraderie because both of us came from difficult childhoods. we had the same kind of fathers so we were very connected. >> larry: was he a good subject? >> yes, he did a lot of core training, strength training.

nothing with heavy resistance. walking on the treadmill, i would use exercise ball. when you're a dancer, it has a lot do with flexibility. especially being 51 now. >> larry: did you ever show any chest pains? >> no, no. >> larry: ever complain about any health problems. >> never. as a matter of fact, sometimes he would be dancing showing the moves between exercising, and he convinced me. i said this guy can pull it off. >> larry: how about frail? he was frail, wasn't he? >> when i saw him, he was not frail. >> larry: the last time you saw him was when. >> was may. i planned to train with him a few more sessions before he left for england but i don't know what happened the last month. >> larry: did you do strenuous exercise? >> no, it was all about dancing and flexibility. you know, michael was so close, that it makes me choke up because we have so much fun together. it wasn't about just training. it was motivation. when i trained him 15 years too long compared to now, he felt safe with me, he trusted me.

it's important because he could not afford to have any kind of injuries. >> larry: did you see any sign of drug use? >> no. >> larry: but it's pretty clear now that there were drug problem. >> i don't know what happened. i don't know anything about his personal life. the last month i don't know what happened. the time i was with him, he seemed fine, alert. no pain at all. he's done a lot of stretching exercises because when you have a lot of pain you can't stretch that much. >> larry: so this is a total mystery to you? >> yes. >> larry: did you ever talk to you about medications he took? >> never, never. and he was more concerned about his diet about, his health because he knew that business is important, especially is important. after the age of 35, the muscles begin to astro if i and that's why he went on the bandwagon to start exercising. >> larry: have you 0 worked with others 50 years old. >> everyone. i worked with mickey rourke, chuck norris, people 70, 0 years old. it doesn't matter as long as you train properly. >> larry: all right. did he belie his years?

was he like younger than 51. >> yes, he was the same as 20 years ago. we were together, he heard on jay leno that i had a good chance to be on dancing with the stars." so he said to me, i want to teach you how to do the moon walk. he wanted me to get him in the best physical shape and wanted to teach me about dancing. the beauty about it, when he moved, the guy i would say it convinced me that he would make the biggest comeback in history. >> larry: how about his behavior? he was obviously, eccentric, a little bizarre. looked a little funny. how did you react to that? >> he wasn't like that with me because when he was with me, the mask came off, the glochb came off. it was just me and michael. we were alone together. he was just a real genuine guy. it was no bs. he was brilliant. but we just had fun. he was just like a regular guy like you and i talking. >> larry: did you work out with

him at his house. >> yes, the last time. could not come to my facility because people followed him so i would go to his house. >> larry: did you work with weights. >> no, mostly the ball, rubber bands, a lot of core training and walking on the treadmill. he had a treadmill in his house. >> larry: was he discipline sfld. >> yeah, the time he came down, i the time i remembered him, extremely disciplined. >> larry: did the kids watch him train? >> yes, as a matter of fact, he brought the kids downstairs, look who's here. the incredible hulk. he had me flexing my arm. the kids were so excited. he plained to the kids, this is the original huck. >> larry: you had a tough father so you shared a lot of that. >> my escape was bodiable. we shared that together. it's funny how we both became extremists. >> larry: how? how were you an extremist. >> became a body building champion, obsessed with fitness. upset with building his body and being successful in his life.

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>> mico brando returns. he'll be with us frequently throughout this tragic after period who appears in the album "thriller." and speaking of "thriller," john landis is preparing for another film in london he will direct. he directed michael's ground

breaking 1983 musical video, maybe the most purchased, most watched video in history. here's an excerpt from "thriller." ♪ because this is thrilling in the night, girl i can scare you more than any gooul could dare try ♪ ♪ ♪ don't let me hold you tight and get up, get up ♪ . >> larry: john, how did you come to direct that? >> i was living in london actually at the time when i got a call from michael. he had just seen an american werewolf in london" and he basically called me and said he wanted to turn into a monster. so that eventually became "thriller." by the way, hi, miko, how are you. >> hi, john. nice to see you. >> larry: what was your role in

"thriller"? what was your role in thriller, mico? >> i was soot scene where michael is in the theater and i'm sitting right in front of him eating popcorn and watching the movie. >> larry: john, did you have any idea, i know how unpredictable. >> mico made the piece, just so you know. >> larry: john, did you have any idea, i know how unpredictable means are. did you have any idea this would be the hit it became? >>, of course, not. something to remember about "thriller" that people forget is the album "thriller," michael's album had already been the most successful selling album of all time. it had been out a little over a year and was now like number six or something but was huge and they had done "billie jean" and "beat it" two very successful videos. so when michael came to me, i thought, well, i didn't want to make a rock video. they're basically commercials for records. i said can we do a theatrical

short and i propose this had thing. abi'll never forget michael calling walter who basically told us in different language to go away. so "thriller" was just what you call a vanity video. we raised the money independently. and no one, we did not expect that. once it came out, the album, which was already the most successful album of all time quad an rupaled in sales. we were totally. >> video likewise. john, what was the -- what was he like to work with? we keep hearing from everyone what a perfectionist he was. true? >> oh, yes. well, michael was very hard-working and very disciplined guy. on "thriller" especially, he was in his prime, very cooperative, very fun. spooem extremely professional. i have to tell that you being with michael at that time mico can tell you was so surreal

because he was such a monster star, and he used to get telephone calls and set visits when i worked with him, he was visited by lillian disney, by people like fred astaire and mikko's dad and jackie kennedy. and it was so holy cow. it was remarkable. >> larry: mico, ap reports michael had completed an elaborate video production just two weeks before his death. the sets included a cemetery recalling the "thriller" video. true? >> true. >> larry: when will we see that? >> that's a good question. i'm sure everybody would love to see that. i would think soon, hopefully. >> larry: you reteamed on a video after that, right, mico? black or white"? >> yes, i'm john. >> larry: sorry, john. >> yes, i did. >> larry: this is all getting to all of us. john, did you notice any difference in the michael again?

>> truthfully, yes. it was quite a few years later. how many years later, me co? five, six years later. >> five, six, seven eight at least. >> michael had had quite a bit more surgery so he looked very different. and he was -- it was different. i mean "thriller," michael came to me and let me write it and produce it and direct it, and he was totally cooperative. you know, it was great. but black and white" was more me working for michael. he hired me to fulfill his vision, which could get pretty wacky at times. it was different, but it was very fun. >> larry: you said that despite his gifts, michael jackson was a tragic figure. explain. >> well, i always found michael, he was -- he was first of all, let me say one thing way up front, which is that i have nothing but love and admiration for mike in terms of as a person and as a truly international and

great star. i was aware of that from the beginning. but he often was sad and he was eccentric. you know. once we were at universal at my office and i said, let's go up to the back to the future ride. it's very cool. he said okay, but i have to put on a disguise. and i said mike, no one will bother you. he said no, i have to put on a disguise. so he went to the car and came back with way red satin surgical mask and a hat and cape. and i said okay, mike, no one will notice you now. he was really outrageous and very sweet. he was a very sweet guy. >> larry: but why traj snick. >> seriously? look what's going on right now. it's tragic. there's no reason for this person to be dead. and there's no reason for him to to be broke and there's no reason for this bizarre thing that's going to go on now. he's a tragic guy, and i just --

i mean, you can tell that, i mean, everyone who worked with michael is very fond of him. he was a lovely person. but i think he was -- i find him very sad figure. >> larry: sad. the great american holiday is here. and here's something to celebrate - the pontiac 72-hour sale. you only have 72 hours to declare your independence from interest payments for 6 full years, with 0% apr financing for 72 months on all 2009 pontiac models... 0% apr for 72 months going on now... during the pontiac 72-hour sale. visit pontiacdealer.com!

>> fans of michael jackson have had an opportunity to pay tribute to him today at harlem's famed apollo theater. in 1967, jackson and his brother won an amateur night showcase there. michael was just 9. emotions ran high inside the apollo today. watch. >> young man that broke down race barriers. national barriers, made a way for tiger woods, for oprah winfrey, made a way for barack obama. you can lie on it, but we believe in him. stand up.

stand up for michael over here. back there. blame it on what? ♪ blame it on the boogie ♪ >> will mike miss us? it means so much. and let's not wallow in the negativity that they're trying to drag us down into. >> long live michael long live michael. long live michael. long live michael. all right. announcer: what's your cialis moment? when she gives me that look. when at last we're alone. when we both decide. announcer: today, guys with erectile dysfunction can be

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miko. joining us now, roger friedman, senior correspondent for the hollywood reporter and roger also writes the blog showbiz 411 column and mark geragos, former defense attorney for michael jackson who represented michael during the early stages of the controversial child molestation case. just for both of you, news just in, the drug enforcement, the dea, has joined the investigation into whether prescription drugs were involved in the death of singer jackson. a source who did not want to be identified because he cannot comment publicly on this matter said dea agents will be looking at various doctors involved with

jackson. that surprise either of you? >> totally makes sense. >> larry: r oo g, you've read the will. mark, anything grab at you. >> the first thing that grabbed at me, i wrote the story this morning that diana ross was named as the successor guardian if katherine jackson can't fulfill her duties. that came as a surprise i think to diana ross. >> larry: did that surprise you? >> not really actually. diana ross has raised five great kids. i think michael saw that. he was very close to her when growing up and saw that she was a good mother. >> larry: mark, i know it's not your specialty. >> you're not kidding it's not my speciality. >> larry: from lawyer, how well was this document prepared. >> looks like a standard last will and testament. and i know that john branca who is named in here was off and on affiliated with michael throughout the years and i think was instrumental in consummating the deal that obtained the beatles catalog. so he was somebody who he

trusted for a long time. >> larry: anything surprise you? >> not really. i think the fact that the kids are with katherine who i have -- my experience with katherine is she was wonderful and his biggest supporter and the kids adored her and if grace is back in the picture, the long-time caregiver, i think that's great. it couldn't be a better place for the wizard. >> larry: is katherine with joe? >> no. >> larry: they're separated or? >> they have a dysfunctional marriage as many people in america do. >> larry: they live separately. >> most of the time. >> an oxymoron. >> they live -- sometimes they live in the same house. but they're not really a couple. >> larry: okay. >> in the sense. he lives in vegas most of the time. >> larry: the day before the will surfaced, attorneyskatheriy believed michael died without a will. does that suggest they may challenge this. >> not necessarily. i think generally when people go to make a will, they don't advertise it and they don't tell

people about if. i know, i've had plenty of client who have gone to dos will and their wives didn't know about the wills. it certainly doesn't surprise me a mother, father, brother doesn't know about a will. it's not something you advertise because you can change it freely. >> larry: you can change a will every day. >> i'm not saying in this case, i don't have any inside informs, but it would not surprise me because it often happens that this may not be the last iteration of the will. >> larry: he could have added to it. >> this is 2002. you could have a 2003, 2004. there could be a will two months ago. >> larry: three days ago. i will could surface at any time. >> at any time. >> larry: do you expect, roger with your experience in all this and this kind of money, there's going to be a fight? >> i don't know. first of all, it's very interesting because for many years, michael as mark well knows, michael had a series of managers and lawyers representing his music side after john branca who it was a mess. it was a big mess that went on.

it was a constant changing of the guard. it was very willful and then just recently, john branca came back into the picture. frank deleo, his great manager during the "thriller" era came back. joel katz was brought in and suddenly michael has this terrific team that was going to put together these london concerts and go forward with them. i think it's a very solid group and john branca having done this means that it's very solid. i don't think there's much to challenge in it. i do know that the one problem with it, but it's michael's choice in the trusts he only mentioned three of his nephews, and three children who are cousins of children who are cousins. but there are 20 other nieces and nephews who are pretty put out at the moment. >> larry: eliminating the ex-wife, common, mark. >> yes, in facts, i think that, as i said before, this is probably no area i know less about, but generally speaking, you have to name and if you don't name, there's a problem.

so. >> she was well compensated earlier on. >> larry: katherine the mother is 79, legal grardian. does this mean pretty good bet she will get custody, permanent custody or not because of a. >> i don't know that debbie rowe, the mother of the two oldest children won't do something. i do know she wanted to wait till the funeral was over and wanted to speak to katherine jackson exactly about what her role would be. i think she's interested in her children. >> i can't emphasize enough. i haven't been around the kids in four years or so. but when i was there, i saw the interaction between them and katherine and with grace who was there who's been around for forever. if grace is in the picture and if katherine is there and with all of the family, we have to remember you've got all the brothers and sisters, there's various kids there and the cousins there, i can't think of a better more nurturing environment than to be with katherine. >> larry: god forbid something

happen to the mother. can diana ross refuse this. >> you can't foist kids on anybody. that don't want them. but the -- the -- what i think would normally happen is they would look to see if they can keep the kids with the biological family if at all possible. >> but that would -- i think debbie -- the think the mother is, she got her parental rights restored about four years ago and i think that there's going to be interest her. >> larry: what's going to happen with all these sales do you think, mark? records are going through the roof. >> a lot of people. >> it goes to the estate. >> a lot of people said the same thing that happened after elvis died. so you know, the great thing about it is that he's getting the recognition that was long overdue. i think that all of this is a great testament to what a great talent he was. >> larry: how much money does he owe? >> well, i think he owes about $400 million. this is how it breaks down.

he has about 325, $350 million loan secured by his interest in the company called sony atv music which owns the beatles catalog. that's the big one. you know, everybody wanted him to sell it for his whole -- the whole time he's had it so he would have money and he refused to do it because he knew that was his leverage. >> larry: will it work now? could he sell it now. >> i'm not a lawyer, are you, i think the situation to settle the estate, they have to sell it to sony. by the way, that's the deal. >> larry: so that would get him out? >> that would get him out and a nice piece of change besides. then there's about $50 million against neverland held by a company called colony capital and a very smart guy named thomas barrack junior. >> larry: what's neverland worth? >> hard to say in this economy. they had this idea of turning it into graceland putting all his tchotchkes into it and bringing people up there.

but it's not possible because neverland is on a long country road. it's two lanes. there's no way to do it. the people of the neighboring towns don't want it. and i think it will be sold eventually and turned into a corporate compound or a private home or a vineyard. >> larry: but they control it. >> colony capital controls it with michael's estate. it's a 50/50 deal. >> larry: how long is this going to go on, mark. >> media sensation is going to go on at least until after the memorial service and funeral, and then i think that every time have you any kind of a court proceeding, you're going to see a flurry of activity until there's some other story that comes along. it would have to be a whale of a story to eslips this. >> larry: as always thank you. i guarantee you one thing, you'll be back. the nurse who told us yesterday that jackson begged her for drugs. stick around. - cherry.erry? oil or cream? oil or cream? cream. some use hydrogenated oil. reddi-wip uses real dairy cream.

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>> larry: cheryl lynn lee is a registered nurse family pragsner and claims michael was so distressed by insomenyia, that he begged her for the powerful sedative diprivan and joins us here. since you went public, have the police contacted you at all? >> no. >> larry: nobody wants to know more about it? >> into. >> caller: >> larry: diprivan, i recently had it when i had a cataract fixed.

done in the hospital, you wake up right away, right? >> as far as i know, right. >> larry: it's given intravenously. when he asked you for it, what did you say. >> when he asked me for it, i was not aware of it. >> larry: you did not know what he was talking about. >> did i not know. >> larry: what did you say to him. >> let me find out what this is. if it's something iv, i don't think it's something you want to do at home. >> larry: how did you come to start with michael. >> the latter part of january, i got a call he wanted someone to see his children. they had a slight little cold and i was asked to come in and see them. >> larry: how did you know about you? >> through a friend. >> larry: so you went and saw the kids. >> i went to go see the kids. >> larry: and then? >> from there we had like a little tea party of some vitamin c and things for their little cold. then michaeled is me, well what, do you do? i said well, what's going on with you? and so he started telling me i'm just tired.

i've been a little fatigued and i said okay. well, why don't we just set up and do -- anyone fatigued we do a complete lab work. so we find out what may be might be draining their body or what's going on in a pathological sense to see what's happening with them. on a newtritional basis. >> larry: what did he say? >> he said fine. that's great. i'd like to know. he asked me could we do it that day. i told him no, i can schedule you to come back later. he said can you come back tomorrow. i said sure. you need to fast tonight and don't eat anything so i can draw your blood tomorrow. so he said okay. >> larry: what did you learn from all that? >> from all that, did i learn. >> larry: did you check his blood out? >> yeah. >> larry: and? >> and medically or nutritionally, i didn't find anything other than just a little low blood sugar. >> larry: did you then look up dipriv diprivan. >> i didn't know about it then. >> larry: the next day did you

look it up. >> this conversation came much after. much after. >> larry: because it would never be given in a home, right? it's a hospital drug when you're going in for surgery. >> yeah, and i just recently found out about it myself. this is months later when he said i'm just having a lot of trouble sleeping. i would love for you to come up and to assist me. >> larry: i got you. did you ask for any other drugs? >> no. >> larry: sleep drugs. >> he never asked for any sleep drugs. he said he only wanted one, that he knew of as time went on op like months later that was going to help him to sleep because he said i know it would help me sleep. >> larry: have you worked with addicts? >> yes, i have. >> larry: did he signal you in any way that he was won. >> no, he did not, no, he did not. i just saw him as a loving caring father, nurturing father and passionate about his work, very creative and love -- i mean, he just loved mankind.

he never said a negative thing about anybody or anything. >> larry: what did you think when he died? other than being shocked, was there a part of it not surprising to you since you'd gone through some medical things with him? >> the only part i was shocked, i was very shocked because of the fact that i didn't understand it. i didn't understand what happened. you know, and i do know that. >> larry: but, on the other hand you knew he had sleep problems. >> he had sleep problems but i do know one day, it was father's day. he called me and i hadn't seen him in three months. and he called me, he said, and he was a little frantic. he said i'm not feeling well. didn't say it as calmly as i'm saying it right now. but he said, i have these symptoms. and i don't feel well. one side of my body is very, very hot and one side is very, very cold. and three months prior when i learned of the medication, i

told him i did know what it was. i'll investigate it. and i called a physician friend and i asked him about it, and he told me what it was, and i said, i went back and told michael, michael, this is something serious. you don't want to take this. you just don't want to take this. >> larry: what do you make of the hot and cold thing? >> when he was giving me his symptoms, i was in florida. i happened to have been in the er myself when he was telling me his symptoms. and i told him, i said, this sounds serious. you know? i don't know what's going on with you. for you to say one side of your body is hot, one side is cold and the reason i feel his body reached out to call me on father's day is because three months prior, i had a chance to take my pdr back to his house and show him the side effects of this medication. and i think, you know. >> larry: do you think maybe he got it? he got the medication from somewhere else? >> i was concerned.

>> larry: we're going to do more on this. thank you for coming for this.

our registered nurse friend chairl linen lee remains. we're joined by dr. sanjay gupta practicing neurosurgeon and associate professor of nurgry

surgery, as well. if you're going to get diprivan, sanjay, it has to be intravenous in a hospital, right? you're not going to get it in your house. >> i've never heard of it outside the medical setting. not only is it intravenous but it's a continuous thing. if you stop giving it, within a few minutes, the person wakes up. you have to give it continuously. >> larry: given for colonoscopy, cat racket surgery. >> the person goes down quickly and wakes up quickly. it has a very short half life. >> larry: what would the appeal be as you would guess to a layman. >> it's interesting because i've talked to lots of different anesthesiologists who use this regularly. it's not really creating sleep, it's creating anesthesia, like a medically induced coma. the idea is when you do start taking it you get a high feeling and then you're out. not only are you out, you don't remember anything about that time period. so if you're trying to get

sleep. >> larry: i was out, i asked when the procedure was going to be done, it was already done. >> you were already in the recovery room probably. >> larry: when you look it had up and talked to your doctor friend, were you surprised michael was asking for this. >> i was very surprised. >> larry: did you then tell him what it was. >> i told him what it was. i showed him the pdr physicians' desk reference and told him this is something you don't want. >> larry: what did he say? >> he said as long as i'm being monitored, i'm okay. he said as long as someone's monitor me, i'm okay. can you find someone to monitor me? >> i said no, absolutely not. >> larry: where would they do this? >> i guess he could come to your house. >> you need monitoring involves checking the oxygenation. >> larry: you couldn't do it at home. >> it would be very hard to do it at home. i don't know. he may have had this before because he had lots of operations. i've had it in the past, as well. did he ever indicate to you he had had it somewhere outside of the hospital before? >> he said he had it before and that.

>> outside the hospital? >> outside the hospital. he didn't say. he just said i had this before. as soon as it dripped into my vein, afs sleep. >> larry: if he had had it then, there wasn't surgery. some doctor was helping him out in a hospital? nurses would be around, right? >> yeah it, sounds -- >> larry: giving anesthesia to someone who's not going to have a surgery. >> let's almost criminal because there are side effects. >> larry: would it be given for plastic surgery. so he could have it then. >> for some of the procedures had he in the past. >> larry: would it show up in autopsy. >> it's a great question. there's not a clear answer. here's the issue. it has a very short half life so it disappears from the body very quickly. technically, if you took some of the blood specimen urine specimens right away, you might find it. some of the doctors i talked to today say it's not something routinely tested for because it is disappears so fast. >> larry: did you give him vitamins. >> yes, i did. vitamins, shakes. >> larry: nutritional

supplements. >> and he was feeling great. i mean, they even showed him on television. said had he never looked as well as he did. >> larry: he apparently was rehearsing well. he was rehearsing well, feeling good. >> larry: this could have been a sudden heart attack, couldn't it. >> he was not breathing but he had a faint pulse. >> larry: which tells you what? >> most likely, this was a respiratory problem, a breathing problem first and a cardiac problem second. he had trouble beneathing either because of drugs or something else and as a result he wasn't getting enough oxygen and that cause your heart to foirl. >> larry: will be the autopsy be definitive? sometimes they're not. >> the coroners say they're going to have an answer. even as we're having this discussion now, these things are coming up that say i don't know if we can figure that one out. >> larry: thanks again, cheryl lynn. as always, sanjay. >> thanks, larry. now every drop of shell gasolines... contain a nitrogen-enriched cleaning system... that seeks and destroys engine gunk...

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>> larry: it's time for impact your world. if anyone did that, it's michael jackson. in 1985, he co-wrote "we are the world" to raise awareness and money for famine-ravaged africa. the song raised more than $60 million, saved countless lives. let's listen. ♪ we are the world, we are the children, we are the ones that make a brighter day so lets start giving ♪ ♪ there's a choice we're making ♪ >>. >> larry: joining us now on the phone is dionne warwick who sang we are the world with michael and dozens of others. what was that like? >> it was an amazing event. absolutely amazing. it was one of those times where you know, where you say you had to be there. i mean, that's basically what it all boils down to. it was a bunch of wonderful

people on one accord. >> larry: now, we know that he co-wrote the song. what was his role at the recording? >> well, he sang, of course. and certainly he was in a booth with quincy and the rest of the engineers listening to playbacks and he was very, very much involved. >> larry: did you have any idea or realize the impact that that would have? >> well, sort of, yeah. i mean, when you bring a group of entertainers together who have one specific intention, you have to have success. music rules the world, you know? >> larry: yeah, you're not kidding. what's the loss meant to you? >> in awful lot. michael was very, very special to me. and he was probably one of the sweetest, kindest, gentlest men that i've had the pleasure of knowing. and working with.

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we're joined now by two of the most prominent forensic pathologists in america, in pittsburgh cyril wecht in, manchester, new hampshire, dr. henry lee, chief emeritus, division of scientific services of connecticut, department of public safety and the author of the book "blood crimes." dr. wecht, from what sketchily you know how now, off the top

what would you guess to be the cause of death or do you need more information? >> i believe this is going to be a case of acute of drug toxicit. i believe there will be three or more drugs involved. demerol being the principle drug that led to the central nervous system depression and then respiratory depression and arrest. that will be the cause of death, i predict. >> dr. lee, what are your thoughts? >> well, i have to wait for the toxicology report. then we'll look at the crime scene, see what kind of prescription medicine, what is the cause of the event. and we know his physician was in the room. was he in the bed, on the floor, in the bathroom? any prescription? what he ate for lunch? that is evidence we'll have to look at. >> larry: dr. wecht, why a second autopsy?

>> a second autopsy is done for several reasons, larry. one, family wants to have somebody they can talk to immediately, spend time with them, explain things, and tell them what's going on, what to expect and so on. because the medical examiner is constrained at this point. he is part of an ongoing criminal investigation and he's just not free to talk about these things. also, you want to make sure everything that has been done, it covers the -- the full spectrum, that nothing has been missed. and then you want to have somebody, possibly for an ongoing consultant, to play a role as you proceed in other matters, whether they be civil or criminal. all of those things come together and provide the basis for a second autopsy. >> larry: dr. lee, if it is a group of drugs, if it is, the crime would be what against the doctor prescribing it? >> well, of course, who prescribed it, what is the dosage and what is the effect on the human body? those are very important factors

to determine. >> larry: why does it take so long, dr. wecht, to get final results? >> the toxicology results, larry, will be known to them tomorrow or wednesday. they'll know which drugs. but they have to look at all the medical records. they have to look at all the interviews being conducted by the homicide and drug abuse detectives. they have to get the pharmacist records. they have the coreilarelate. they also have to do other tests. they've got to examine the brain. that has to be fixed for 10 to 14 days and then go back and do studies on the brain. i'd be surprised if they're not doing that. they may have special studies of the heart and all of those things are actually going to take longer. so the correlation of all that information gleaned from their office and from other investigators with the autopsy findings, the microscopic studies and the analysis will lead them ultimately to not only determining the cause of death but then very importantly the

manner of death. suicide, accident, or homicide. >> larry: dr. lee -- or maybe undetermined, right. dr. lee, from what you know now and based on your vast experience, do you think there was some hanky-panky anywhere along the line here? >> well, any type of death you treat as suspicious. you have to investigate it. of course, michael jackson is an icon in the country and the world. everybody was looking at it. that's why the coroner's office is very cautious. they're saying it's still under investigation. the homicide and robbery squad, today the coroner's office went back to the scene. that's very important, to look at the scene, look at the medicine cabinet, look at the prescriptions and any information at the scene can give them some clue. >> larry: we're going to call on both you of again. thank you for your expertise.

>> larry: we wind up things tonight with thelma gutierrez at the los angeles grammy museum. reaction to michael jackson's death, the museum has extended an exhibition about his style. tell us all about it, thelma. what's happening? >> larry, i can tell you, if you're a fan, this is the place to be. look at the three jackets in front of me. michael jackson had these made for his own personal wear, that way you'd have a sports coat made to wear out to dinner. this jacket was actually

inspired when he was walking down the street. he saw a gum wrapper, took the gum wrapper to his designer and said, make me a jacket. all of these items here, larry, were about to go down just last week when they learned that michael jackson had died. the exhibit had run its course. they were taking it down, they found out, and then instantly they had to scramble to get this exhibit back up. bob is the executive director here of the grammy museum. bob, tell me. how did you go about selecting some of these things? i understand michael jackson actually reached out to you. he said, i want to be included. >> really it was a curator's dream. we got a call from one of michael jackson's representatives who says michael knows about the grammy museum. he's won 13 grammy awards. he'd like to be part of it. inside of a week or so, we were at one of michael jackson's warehouses and had the opportunity to go through and select artifacts for the

exhibit. >> you selected these items b s because you wanted to tell a story about michael jackson. what does this tell? >> you always want a point of view. lots of things have been said about michael jackson in the past, many, many things. what could be bring to the michael jackson story that hadn't been told? he was the king of pop. he certainly dressed like royalty. so the idea was to select artifacts, select objects that reflected his royalty status. that's what we did. >> one of the most iconic suits that you have in here is the white suit, the suit that millions of people around the world have seen. he wore this on the "thriller" cover. >> that's right. notice the way it's situated in the exhibit because everything around it is very elegant, very flashy, very royal-like. this suit is a hugo boss suit, very plain. this is one of his most iconic artifacts, one of the most iconic outfits. >> then you the jacket up in the

corner that he wore when he got the star on the walk of fame. >> that was in 1984. that's what he wore there, exactly. the thing about that, the exquisite quality of this, these are not jackets that you buy off the rack, so to speak. these are all hand-made. they're done by very famous and celebrated designers. and michael always played a prominent part in helping the design. >> the two jackets at the end, very flashy. they were actually on tour, were they? >> this one here is a beautiful one because it's from the victory tour. it's really what he starts out wearing. from this particular point, if we move over to here, you'll see he goes to this kind of look in the tour. and the difference is rather significant. but he begins to see the military look and then you can see the military look here. >> the jacket. >> very nicely. but the interesting thing about this, i want you to pick this up. feel how heavy it is. this is 15 pounds. >> it's very heavy. hard to imagine, larry, that michael