we want you to check out our political podcast to get the best political team to go. subscribe at cnn.com/situationroom. i'm in the situation room. up next, lou dobbs tonight. we're following breaking news tonight on the death of michael jackson. the associated press is reporting tonight that michael's delt was ruled a homicide. we'll have all the latest dramatic details. also tonight, the justice department declassifies an internal cia report on interrogation tactics used on terrorists in the bush administration. tonight they're appointing a prosecutor who was assigned if any legal action is taken. president obama gives the go-ahead for a special interrogation unit that will operate out of the fbi and will report directly to the white

house. and few less than president obama's cabinet. so who is helping the president tonight? the associated press is reporting that the l.a. county coroner has ruled michael jackson's death a homicide. the news could mean criminal charges for jackson's personal doctor, dr. conrad murray. murray was in the house with jackson when he died. there are also more details contained in a search warrant, and court documents unsealed today. we have complete coverage tonight with randy in los angeles, and senior legal analyst jeffrey tubin in new york. first randy with the very latest. randy, what can you tell us? >> i know you mentioned the report by the associated press saying the death has been ruled a homicide. i do want to point out when it comes to the coroner's ruling of a homicide, it could have a very different meaning. it has a much larger meaning.

it could be reckless manslaughter, negligent homicide, there are all kinds of things there. the associated press is quoting a single source there. we have called the l.a.p.d. they said that that information was not coming from them. we also called the coroner's office here in l.a. county and they gave us a "no comment." we did check with the district attorney's office as well, and they said they hadn't received a note yet to press charges. we can tell you that according to the affidavit and the search warrant that was filed today that we have, it does say police have found evidence of manslaughter at dr. conrad murray's clinic in the houston area. dr. conrad murray, as you know, has been a target of this investigation. he is michael jackson's personal physician. they say, according to this affidavit, that police have determined and the county coroner has determined, that toxicology analyses show that michael jackson had lethal levels of propofil, a very

powerful sedative, in his blood at the time of his death. this is really key, because we know from a source close to this investigation and dr. conrad murray had given michael jackson propofil within 24 hours of his death. now we see it in writing here from authorities, and according to some of the quotes from dr. murray to police in this document, apparently dr. murray feared that michael jackson had been -- had become addicted to propofil, he was trying to wean him off it, and in place of that, he tried giving him valium the day that he died to help him sleep because he was having trouble sleeping for about six weeks. helorazepam, and at 2:00 in the morning, just before michael jackson suffered cardiac arrest, he did go ahead and give him 200 milligrams of propofil, and as you know, that is really reserved for a hospital setting.

not the first time that michael jackson has used propofil, according to dr. murray telling authorities that he was very familiar with this drug. this drug looks like a milky substance, there is a milky appearance. he told authorities that michael jackson referred to propofil as his milk. so there you have it, a history of michael jackson with propofil, and now the first time, according to this preliminary report from the coroner's office, that he had lethal levels of this very powerful sedative in his blood. >> randi, i want to go back to something you said, that it wasn't just propofil, that in the days or hours before he died, there was several other drugs. there is a timetable, isn't there? really within hours, it sounds like a cocktail full of drugs. >> exactly. the morning that michael jackson died, june 25th, apparently dr. murray told authorities he had tried to induce sleep because he had been giving michael jackson 50 milligrams of propofil, and he wanted to reduce it, he

wanted to get him off of it, actually. he tried giving him valium at 1:30 in the morning. when that didn't work, he injected lorazepam at 2:00 a.m. at 3:00 a.m., he was still awake, so he adminstered moradalam. and then he was repeatedly demanding the propofil, and at 10:40 in the morning, just a few hours before he collapsed, that's when michael jackson was given 25 milligrams of the propofil. actually, we know that dr. murray called 911 around noon or so. so not long before that was he given this drug. >> okay, randi, thank you for that great report. thanks from l.a. the legal ramifications of the report is jeffrey tubin.

we want to go back to something randi said, which it's a homicide charge. we could be talking first-degree murder, homicide, what's the possibility here? >> there is a wide variety of charges included in the category of homicide. first-degree murder. you can get the death penalty for that. you can be charged with manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, which is a much lesser crime. certainly there does not appear to be any evidence in this case that suggests any sort of intentional murder. so any sort of charges look like they will be at the manslaughter end of the spectrum, but you can still go to jail for a considerable amount of time if you're convicted of that. >> i guess what's the threshold of evidence? is it enough to say he gave him the medication, or is there a level of -- i mean, he's a medical doctor, so should he have known that this might have -- and realizing that this is very early on. his lawyer has denied any wrongdoings, says he has not

admitted any wrongdoing of any sort and we should first mention that. but what is the threshold of evidence they would have to prove? >> for manslaughter, you would have to prove some sort of recklessness. doctors try to cure patients all the time, and they sometimes die. that obviously is not any sort of crime. here the investigation has obviously been pointed at proving that murray behaved in such a way that he caused jackson's death in a reckless and irresponsible way. that's really what manslaughter is. it's not intentionally killing someone, but it's behaving in such a way that you cause their death and you behave recklessly in doing it. >> here there were other doctors. dr. conrad murray is not the only doctor, apparently, here, from everything that we know. so do you think that others will be brought into this investigation, or do you think it will just focus on dr. murray because he was the last doctor with michael jackson when he died?

>> i don't know at this point. the investigation of dr. murray has been very public. there's been a search warrant of his house, of his office, a pharmacy he used. but investigators have also said they're investigating other people, and it is in the prosecutors' and policemen's interest in investigating everybody who had contact with michael jackson, because you know murray will say, why are you blaming me? look at everybody else involved. look at all the drugs he had. look at what he did to hasten his death. so a further investigation is necessary even if they only end up charging dr. murray with a crime. >> he went on line, on youtube, and he said i've only told the truth, and i have to hope that the truth will prevail. these public statements on line, does it help him, does it hurt him? >> i don't think there's much

difference. if there's a charge, he won't go to trial probably for a year. no one is going to remember what he said in a one-line statement and it's not evidence in the case. i don't think it will matter. what's really going to matter is the evidence. you talk about his statements. what statements he made to the police immediately after, whether those statements prove to be false in any respect, that could be evidence of consciousness of guilt if he's found not to have told the truth. but we don't know if he did or not. >> jeffrey tubin, always a pleasure. thanks for joining us. we'll have more on the michael jackson investigation coming up later in the broadcast. you don't want to miss it, so stay with us. attorney general eric holder is appointing a federal prosecutor to find out if actions by the cia were legal. an internal cia memo was released detailing a torture of

terrorist suspects. they threatened to kill the children of mohammed. >> he threatened to kill the children of mastermind mohammed. though still partially redacted, according to this interrogator, the blank interrogator said to mohammad that if anything else happened in the united states, we're going to kill your children. the report also reveals the technique not previously disclosed, that an interrogator, quote, reportedly used a pressure point technique. with both his hands on the detainee's neck, blank manipulated his figures to restrict the detainee's carotid artery. he reportedly watched his eyes to the point that the detainee would nod and start to pass out. the blank shook the detainee to wake him.

this process was repeated for a total of three applications on the detainee. and new information about a gun and a power drill used to scare mashire suspended of planting the u.s. bombing. he sat shackled and racked a handgun once or twice close to nashiri's head. and later he entered the detainee's cell and revved the drill while the detainee stood naked and hooded. the debriefer did not touch the hood. in a letter to cia employees obtained by cnn, cia director leon panetta noted the agency referred allegations of abuse to the justice department for potential prosecution.

now, late today the government released these newly declassified governments reported by dick cheney. while the documents do contain successes in obtaining detainees, you can see here by this heavily redacted page, what's not clear is whether the information was obtained through controversial techniques like waterboarding. lisa? >> elaine quijano, thanks very much for reporting from washington. on the same day the cia was made public, they announced a dramatic shift in national security policy. they are handling the interrogation of terrorist suchs. the new unit will operate out of washington, d.c. at the fbi, not the cia, and it will answer directly to the white house. the move is one of the obama administration's breaks from normal tactics. he is traveling with the president and reports from

martha's vineyard. >> reporter: the white house is getting more involved with how valuable information is squeezed from suspended terrorists. the new detainee group will be based at washington headquarters and overseen by the national security council. confirming what was first reported by the washington post. >> we went together with all the different intelligence committees to get the best intelligence possible and consistent with the army field manual. >> this is consistent, you'll get better information? >> the president's view is we can always work harder to protect the american people. >> the president authorized the new group after a recommendation from his top-level task force, which was looking into new ways of gathering information without resorting to torture. the unit is a departure from the bush years when the cia, not the fbi, almost exclusively handled interrogations of al qaeda suspects and used the controversial and now banned

waterboarding. but there are suggestions that the cia is being sidelined. >> absolutely not. the cia obviously has a very important role to play as it relates to interrogations. >> reporter: even so, harsh criticisms coming from the role of the senate committee. they call it an odd lack of faith in their intelligence committee and a bizarre lack of vote of confidence in the director of the cia. but national security leader fr fred -- it looks to me like it's being more inclusive. you're bringing for people into this discussion, and i don't think that's a bad thing. >> reporter: now senator bond says he's concerned that any involvement by the white house will only positive lit size the process, and he believes in the long run that could hurt. national security of the white house saying, that's not the

case, in fact, saying the white house will not engage in any operational activities involve thg unit. lisa? >> dan, all of this comes amid this ongoing health care debate. the obama administration certainly has a lot on its plate, now you've got this cia board. is this a distraction for the white house? >> they wouldn't say it's a big distraction. when the president is asked whether he's handling too much or if one is a distraction from another, he'll always say, these are issues i didn't ask for. they're important issues that need to be addressed now and that's why he's addressing it. that's what the white house believes in this case as well. this is an issue. in terms of the timing, we don't know why it happened while they were on vacation, it is just reinforcing that notion that the white house wants to be sort of hands off and let the attorney general do his work. >> curious it does happen when he's on vacation, doesn't it? thank you very much for that report from martha's vineyard. as part of the obama

administration's new rules for detainees at guantanamo bay, a man there is free tonight. he was accused of throwing a hand grenade at u.s. troops in kabul. that attack wounded two soldiers, but the justice department says his confession was co ersed, and because of that, he had to be released. just ahead, our continued investigation into public health care in other countries as the debate rages in this country. also ahead, dobbs and jobs now. unemployment is rising. private sector jobs are hard to find in the nation's popular states. if you want a government job, that's a whole different story. we'll have the latest details on the michael jackson death case, details that could mean criminal charges. ( revving, siren blares )

there's no way to hide it. sir, have you been drinking tonight? if you ride drunk, you will get caught... and you will get arrested. what heals me? girls' night out. and for damage from acid reflux disease, my nexium. announcer: for many, one prescription nexium pill a day can heal damage to the esophagus that acid reflux disease may cause over time. and nexium can provide 24-hour heartburn relief. headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain are possible side effects of nexium and other serious stomach conditions may still exist. announcer: ask your doctor about the healing purple pill. learn how you can save online. if you can't afford your medication, the cash for clunkers

program is about to become history. the program ends in this hour. about 800,000 cars were sold under the plan. the program gives rebates of up to $4500 for owners to trade in gas guzzlers for new fuel-efficient models. but many dealers remain concerned about being reimbursed by the federal government. >> this is wildly successful for selling cars, but the success is going to hurt dealers tremendously. our whole industry is now on its knees with sales down about 35 to 40%. dealers are struggling financially, and to put out hundreds of thousands of dollars, in our case millions of dollars on this program with the hope of being paid promptly, we were promised to be paid within ten days under this program, and so far most of our claims have not even been looked at. >> dealers have until noon tomorrow to file their paperwork, but no new deals can be written after 8:00 p.m. tonight. with the program, then, many dealers fear consumer interest in buying cars will end, too. the car site edmonds.com says

dealers could see a 40% drop in sales. if you didn't get rid of your old car, don't worry, your old refrigerator could bring you some cash. a $3 million program to boost new appliances begins new falls. the rebate gives up to $200 for new appliances, but unlike the cash for clunkers, you won't have to haul in your old appliances to take advantage of the rebate. hundreds of thousands of jobs in california have been lost in the past year unless, that is, you work for the government. california, which just last month was paying its bills with ious have actually hired more state workers. casey ryan reports. >> reporter: california has one of the highest unemployment rates, 11.9% last month. since july 2008, california has lost more than three-quarters of a million jobs.

hardest hit, construction, manufacturing and trade. yet as those private sector jobs disappear, the number of people working for the california state government has actually risen by 1600 in the past year. >> the private sector is always worried about the threat of failure. in the private sector, if you don't pay your bills, you go bankrupt, you lose your job, your company gets closed down and ends up in the hands of the creditors. governments don't have those kind of pressures. >> governor arnold schwarzenegger has ordered many state workers to take unpaid furloughs to help close california's massive budget deficit. they are expected to reduce some government jobs. still, the perception persists that california's state government is a bloated, inefficient impediment to job growth. this month, neighboring nevada, despite higher unemployment rates than california, had an ad

campaign trying to lure government workers away. >> if anything, let's face it, what happens in vegas, stays in vegas. but what happens in california makes it the world around. >> we asked what besides the ad campaign are lawmakers doing to spur private sec ter job growth in california. >> we actually enacted $8.7 billion in tax cuts for targeted small business, whether they're in the movie, tv production area, whether they're trying to get more small businesses to hire more workers to a very successful new home buyer tax credit that helps the home buyer but also helps create new jobs in the construction industry. >> even so, california lost nearly 36,000 more jobs last month alone.

>> reporter: there are a few bright spots. agriculture jobs have all grown in the past year. and despite the growth in taxpayer funded jobs, california has the lowest per cap ta rate of jobs statewide. >> coming up, our coverage of health care around the world tonight. what makes it so special? also the justice department will investigate weather the cia broke the law when enter enter gating terrorist suspects. and the coroner ruled michael jackson's death a homicide. we'll have that and the response from michael jackson's fans coming up next. anyone can prove they're strong once. the real question is can they prove it again and again. ♪

at northwestern mutual, we've answered that question compellingly... for over 150 years. northwestern mutual. consistency counts. put our strength to work for you. learn how at northwesternmutual.com. with cialis for daily use... a clinically proven, low-dose tablet for erectile dysfunction you take every day so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. don't drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision stop taking cialis and call your doctor right away.

(announcer) 36-hour cialis. or cialis for daily use. ask your doctor about cialis today, so when the moment is right, you can be ready. we've been reporting here on

the health care systems of other countries and how they compare to health care here. the quality of care in italy ranks 17th in a survey of european countries. life expectancy in italy is high, just over 81 years. it's a universal care system

based on britain's national health system, but the wait to see doctors have led many to seek private care. >> reporter: in italy, the citizens receive health care through the government-run national health plan. citizens do not pay for inpatient services, and they do not pay to see a primary care doctor. but while the visit to the doctor is free, the choice of doctor is limited. >> in terms of the primary care physician, you must select from a list that's provided to you within your geographic area. you're not allowed to go outside that area to see a primary care physician, and you can only see a specialist with permission of your primary care physicians. >> reporter: in order to access the doctor or specialist of their choice, 35% of italians purchase supplemental private insurance. this insurance provides access to private clinics, and patients can avoid the delays commonly associated with government-run facilities. >> in the government-run system, there are significant delays.

it takes more than two months, for example, to get in to have a mammogram. >> the italian health care system produces impressive results. life expectancy is 82 years over the 78 years in the u.s. health care costs consume 8.7% of gdp versus 16% in the u.s. the italians spend $2,682 per person versus $7,290 in the u.s. the system is paid for through a payroll tax which is paid through your income leflsz very differently. >> you pay less if you have high income, and it pay virtually nothing if you make more.

>> the system is funded by co-payments. patients can pay as much as 30% for diagnostic tests and prescription drugs. >> i think the health care system in italy is struggling with the problem that besets all health care systems in other countries, and that is in the attempt to hold down costs, they have, in effect, created shortages. they have led to waiting lists and the rationing of care. >> as michael tanner from the kato institute says, you cannot cut costs and not expect to get more access to care. tomorrow, health care in norway. later in the week, portugal, new zealand and turkey. coming up, dramatic developments in the michael jackson death investigation. also, the president's own party more divided than ever over health care. our political panel joins us. and a federal prosecutor will investigate whether some cia interrogations of terror

suspects were illegal. that's the topic of debate up next. i'm peter jacobsen, and i've lost 31 pounds on nutrisystem. dan marino influenced me and he really pushed me to get on nutrisystem. yeah, i'll take credit for peter jacobsen. introducing the all-new nutrisystem for men, flexible new programs personalized to meet your goals. get on the program, eat properly, you're going to lose weight. it's actually easier than you think it might be. that was really good. thanks. i had awesome results and i've kept it off for three years.

for a limited time, get an extra three weeks of meals free. that's right, you can get an extra 21 breakfasts, lunches, dinners, desserts, and snacks. that's 105 meals free. that's what guys like. "tell me, 'do this,' i do it, i lose weight." with prices as low as $12 a day, you'll save hundreds over other weight-loss programs. order now and get an extra three weeks of fantastic meals. that's right, 105 meals absolutely free. call or click now.

fewer than half of president obama's top appointees are in

place. one of the reason for the empty seats, tough background checks. but he has figured out a way to hire people and at the same time bypass the tough vetting process. >> help wanted. the director for agency development, customs and border protection, drug enforcement administration, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives. the latest head count from a team of academics show that less than 50% requiring senate accommodation have been filled. >> it means a lot of government that are driving public policies that have consequences for the lives of millions of americans don't have leadership at this point. >> reporter: the white house transition project calculates that 210 days into the obama administration with 385

confirmation-required policy-making executive branch jobs on the line, president obama has nominated 243 candidates and the senate has confirmed 193, about half of the total. the white house concedes -- >> do we have some more hiring to do? sure. but are we able to make a lot of progress with the team that's in place right now? absolutely. so i think that moving forward, the president feels good about his team and he's going to continue to put together a strong team. >> reporter: in the senate, jim manley says, quote, there is every reason to be concerned the president deserves to have his full complement of staff in the different agencies, end quote. former senator tom dashle, his cabinet was barred. >> they have car czar and numerous other czars who are

making critical decisions in the government but they don't have to go through senate confirmations. >> and the policies overriding them may well discourage good candidates for these executive cabinet positions. still, the record shows the obama white house is no farther behind on appointments in recent administrations, and historians say it reflects the massive scope of the federal government. lisa? >> at one point they were talking about a czar of czars. i don't know what ever happened to that. thank you for that report. a newly released report suggests interrogation used by the cia on terror suspects. the fbi is considering launching a full investigation into cia interrogation tactics that could lead to prosecutions for cia agents. joining me now for more in our face-off debate tonight, former cia operative robert baer.

he says there definitely should be an investigation into cia tactics, and gary bernstein says he is very concerned about the tactics and the impact it will have on the cia. thank you very much, with all your years in the cia. robert, you say there should definitely be an investigation. tell me why. >> we're getting this drip-drip of accusations of the cia in the last three or four years, and it's better to get to the bottom of this and have a lawyer look at this, explain why he's going to prosecutor isn't. in any case, the cia has always operated under american law and it always should. and if somebody has gone farther than they should have, they should be prosecuted. the cia is not above the law and america doesn't want them above the law. if nobody committed a crime, nobody gets prosecuted. >> gary?

>> the cia operated under directives given by the federal government, then others provided them advice. there was significant leadership oversight during the bush administration on this, and it sounds more like a battle between the justice department of the bush administration and the obama administration than it does the cia. it's unfortunate it's being so positi politicized. they're going to now need their own attorneys. they're not going to want to step out and take any risks at all. i can tell you from my experience in 2001, it was hard to find people to fill out the teams in 2001 because a lot of people didn't believe they would be protected. >> robert, do you hear what gary is saying that, this is essentially going to create somewhat of a chilling effect. how do you respond to that?

>> we're talking about people who went behind the guidance. the cia can't hide behind a veil of secrecy, nor can it sub-contract these agencies. if the cia is operating within the guidelines, they're not going to be looked at, they're not going to be prosecuted. the fact that eric holder is appointed a special prosecutor and not an independent prosecutor tells me and telszls lot of people that this administration doesn't intend to go after the cia that thinks it was authorized. that obviously could change, but right now there has been a very limited reaction. you look at the report that comes out today and there is nothing particularly damning in it. once you release that report, you're obligated to look again at what went on in the past, and there's been no prosecution so far except for one or two. >> the white house did release a statement, ask we want to share that with our viewers.

gary, does that give you some sense of comfort there? >> well, i want to just go back to what bob said. if someone is acting outside the law and outside the guidance and acted in a way that was not consistent with those guidance, i wouldn't have a problem with that. if there is no indication that that's happened, why would you want to open up this can of wor worms and go through all of this? i can tell you for a fact when something like this is done, there would have been people on hand, many, many layers of people and levels of people witnessing and watching this. they were being very, very careful to stay within the letter of what they were told to do. >> elaine quijaho had a report earlier, and some of the details, threatening to kill family members and such, rape someone's mother to having a gun

go out in the cell to make it seem like they were executing a prisoner -- >> that was from the gitmo detainees. we've released a number of people that are terrorists. the man who assassinated buto. these people deserved to be captured. the fact that both the bush administration released and the obama administration their view of this, i don't think it's consistent with sound security measures. there are a lot of people that are terrorists that constitute a real danger to our country, and we're going to release people from that institution that will lead major terrorist organizations against the country someday. i'm convinced of it. >> robert, there is an argument that essentially says when it's

necessary to get information, this notion of the ticking time bomb, that when time is of the essence you have to get that information right away and that american lives can be at stake that perhaps maybe these are justified. what's your opinion on that on whether we should go ahead and prosecute federal agents? >> the president today has assigned interrogations to the fbi, high-value detainees, which is a good idea. the fbi for a living interrogates people, suspects that are hostile, that have committed violent crimes. they're very good at it. they're very good at making sure they don't cross the boundary lines. the cia traditionally has gone out and recruited sources, not through co ergs. and you know, it does very well when it does that. i think this was all giving in ter gag -- interrogations is hugely

distracting. so we're seeing a package the president has offered today and not just going after the cia. we'll have to wait and see whether this will become a witch hunt or not, and it's too early to tell. >> i agree with bob on that, this was a distraction. originally when we captured prisoners in the beginning, i was there when we captured prisoners in afghanistan, i turned them over to the military immediately. i didn't think we should be in the business of doing that. later the fbi did end up in that business, unfortunately. this has been a problem. >> gary is right. >> i want you both to answer the question. we're running out of time here. where do you think this is going to go? do you think there will be prosecutions here? >> hopefully not. hopefully people did adhere to the law. but if they did violate the law, there will be significant problems. >> and robert baer, you got the final word. >> i think one thing that bothers me is the destruction of the cia tapes. what was on those tapes, why they were destroyed i think is really going to be a telling

point whether the witness is prosecuted or not. it stushz me because i would like to see what that evidence is and so would a court one day. >> thank you very much, gentlemen, for your time. bert baldwin has an update on other stories we're following. out of los angeles, the soeshd press quoting a single law enforcement saying the l.a. coroner has ruled michael jackson's death a homicide. the associated press has not confirmed that report, but we do know he had lethal levels of the drug propofil, and his doctor has admitted to giving him a number of drugs, including' fill, on the day he died. his family says they have full confidence in the legal process. they look forward to the day justice can be served. the white house warning that the swine flu could kill as many

as 90,000 people right here in the united states. the council on technology says half the population could be affected this flu season. they suggest speeding up the vaccine and putting the home security advisor in charge of swine flu-related decisions. the space shuttle discovery scheduled to launch early tomorrow morning. crews fielded the shuttle this afternoon and they say it will be ready for its 1:00 a.m. shuttle launch time. the astronauts will be bringing more than seven tons of supplies to the space station. one of the items they'll be bringing, lisa, a treadmill named after comedian stephen cobair. i have trouble getting on my treadmill on earth, so kudos to the astronauts. >> i think he went on a campaign, didn't he, to get that. >> he did, and he won. >> thank you for that update.

coming up, the president goes on vacation while the nation is engaged in the health care debate. is this a good time to leave washington? stomp and the health care rhetoric heats up among democrats. the president's party remains deeply divided. our panel is next.

joining me now, the president of christy strategies and former special assistants to george w. bush, ron christy, republican strategist, political

director and senior contributor ed rawlins, and ron hangcough. first we'll get started to the decision to appoint a prosecutor to see if the cia did anything illegally. good idea, bad idea? >> mixed idea. if the probe goes on a long time, it will not be good for the cia, it won't be good for this country. if he reaches quick conclusions to say, look, maybe some things happened, maybe not, indicts some people, maybe the better off we'll be. but a long-term probe of the cia would not be good for this president, this administration or this nation. >> ron, do you think our country needs a full-scale investigation into what happened during president bush's years? >> i don't. i think if you look at the cia in ter gators, they were under

an operative. the american men and women are the ones that will be brought to justice, not the higher-ups. i think this is a witch hunt about embarrassing the bush administration rather than asking the country to keep us safer. >> the white house appears to be doing a very delicate dance here, on the one hand saying, okay, eric holder, do what you need to do, and on the other hand saying, we're not involved. this is eric holder's thing. >> i'm not surprised. the number one decision i found strange today is not taking interrogation decisions from the cia and giving did to the fbi, they're now taking it to the national securities council. that's not the job of the national securities council and for them to be in charge of the interrogations brings it right to the doorstep. lord hope we never have another 9/11, but most of this occurred right after 9/11, and who knows what we might have done to these people who killed thousands of

americans. i think to the most extent, we need to move on, and i think tht from the cia, putting the authority of interrogations of these sorts with the fbi, is the white house essentially saying the buck stops here? >> the white house is demoralizing the cia, taking back some of its power. reem powers the fbi and taking back control, itself. it's a long route. >> in terms of these revelations, what do you think this is going to do, ron, in terms of the united states' image abroad? america's image abroad? too many details coming out that might come back to hurt us? >> i think it will. if you looked at director panetta, he was at a conference. they said, why is the united states continually looking back? president obama when he came into office said we need to move forward, leave some of these issues in the past behind us. think it's going to hurt the morale of the cia, as hank said

a few minutes ago. do these steps take the united states a course safer for protecting us as opposed to making people say, you know what, maybe i better take a step because back because i don't want a justice department lawyer breathing down my back. >> the u.s. has so much on its plate right now. this is supposed to the month for health care. is this going two a political distraction? >> it has to be a distraction. any time you appoint an independent prosecutor, he can go lots of different places and continue this thing for a long period of time. several administrations including reagan's administration and clinton's administration suffered. no matter what they call it, this guy is going to go where he wants to go. we can't forget we're in the middle of the same two wars. the same two guys who did 9/11. we need the cia fully engaged and not worried about them cover their tail. i think it's a very, very bad time do this. >> hank, you have the final word on this subject. i mean, you are the democrat

represented here at the table. >> the republicans would love to run away from this. there were probably abuses created. go get them done. get the investigation completed and moved on. don't drig this out. the men and women fighting for our country don't need the heat. >> we'll have much more with our panel. stay with us. there's no way to hide it. sir, have you been drinking tonight? if you ride drunk, you will get caught... and you will get arrested.

others by the car of their dreams. during the lexus golden opportunity sales event, you can do both. special lease offers now available on the 2009 es 350.

we are back now with our panel. ron christie, ed rowlands and hank shine cough. thank you for joining us. hank, we'll start with you. so, president obama he's on vacation, martha's vineyard. this is a make or break month for health care. is it a good month for him to be on vacation?

>> what says he's not working the phones when he's on vacation? it's a good time to slow the action down. the action has not been great. it has to come back more coordinated. have a plan where he can get behind it and ignite as many facts as possible. >> they're using this vacation to slam president obama on health care. we have a piece of sound we want to play for our viewers. >> the beach is nice this time of year. while president obama vacations, concerns about his health care plan. why? because his public option health plan could lead to government-run health care, higher taxes on everything from paychecks to soda and add $1 trillion to the deficit. >> okay, ron, is that going to gain traction there? >> i think they will. the think a lot of americans right now are looking at the obamas on vacation, saying, he's spending $50,000 a week to rent a home when a lot of american families don't make that kind of money. people are concerned.

the size and the scope of government gotten too big? with we have the stimulus bill, talking about taking over the health care industry. is the government trying to do too much, too fast without serious time for cause for deliberation? >> the point ron's making, that martha's vineyard property, 28 acres, $50,000 a week. that's not going to really sit well with middle class voters out there. >> if you're a populous president, which he wants to be. the critical thing, the president has to come back and be fully engaged in not in public selling this program. the public sale is over. he has to get on the hill with his team, get behind closed doors with democrats. there's no republican who is going to vote with this plan. they have to come out with something they can sell. the big battle is the conservative blue dogs versus the progressives. they're about as far apart as anybody can be. if they're going to do that, this president is going to get a big, black mark. >> that this is basically a war

with the democrats right now. thank you, gentlemen. coming up at the top of the hour, campbell brown. hey, there, lisa. a whole lot more on the breaking news in the michael jackson investigation including an hour by hour look at what drugs jackson was giving on the last night of his life. long list, pretty shocks. also swine flu that could cause up to 90,000 deaths this year at home. we have the government warning just in tonight. we're going to tell you more about that. those stories plus our "mashup" at the top of the show of the day's news at the top of the hour. >> campbell, looking forward to it. we will be right back. hey buddy, i appreciate the ride, you know. no problem. ♪ mind if i take a shortcut? yeah, sure. ♪ i knew the subaru legacy was the smart choice... what i didn't expect... was the fun.

the all-new subaru legacy. feel the love.

a reminder to join lou on the raid you monday through friday for "the lou dobbs show." subscribe to lou's free daily pod cast as well at loudobbs.com for interviews, lou's commentary and a whole lot more.