president bill clinton from russia and iran to battling the nra, candid comments on hillary and chelsea and which one he believes might make a better president has everyone yapg. all that of course and his attempted impression of bon know. that's all for us tonight. that's all for us tonight. "ac 360 later" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com welcome to "ac 360 later." thanks for joining us tonight. a new trial for a florida woman whose stand your ground defense was rejected. all white or rsororities accuse racism. kenyan police say they have a suspect in custody caught trying to escape the kenya mall as shoppers were trying to evacuate the mall. several young women were among the attackers one of them was a white woman. authorities are much more cautious on that point.

at the table tonight cnn legal analyst and republican strategist and former press secretary for dan quayle and newt gingrich. we start with cnn's namid bagir. explain this now that we have eyewitnesses who are saying a number of women were involved in the attack? how reliable is this? >> reporter: well, understandably in the terror and the chaos of people fleeing and being shot at, you do question how reliable that can be. but given that this is kenya, given that most of the attackers from the pictures that we've seen from inside the scene were dark-skinned, a woman would stand out. a white woman especially would stand out. a white woman carrying a gun, i think that's probably quite difficult to get wrong. but as you said, the kenyan authorities are being more cautious. they're saying that they have

credible evidence that would lead them to believe that this could be the case, but they don't know for sure, anderson. >> explain this woman that they call the white widow. who is she? what her name is? what is her alleged involvement? >> reporter: this is samantis a lewthwaite. she is the daughter of a british soldier. a very genteel part of britain. she converted to islam, was married to jermaine lindsay, one of the july 7th, 2007 bombers in the london attacks. after he killed himself, she appeared in a lot of news media, denouncing this attack. her community in buckingham shooir rallied around her and then she just disappeared. we didn't hear about her again until 2011 when just completely by accident a kenyan police team stumbled over her while they were looking for someone else. they went away, got intelligence that the brits were interested in her, came back and she disappeared. but what they did find was an awful lot of weaponry, money and

explosives. and she has been on the run ever since until now when the kenyans have asked interpol to set up an international red alert to try and find her. >> how concerned is anyone at this table about this style of attack in the united states? >> well, i think it's a real possibility. and i think that -- i mean, this is always the fear, right? that there are all these soft targets, whether it be malls or stadiums or parks. >> subways. >> subways, mass transportation. but in a way, vulnerability is kind of baked in the cake of freedom. that there are some targets that will always be soft. and you actually wouldn't want to live in a society that eliminated all the threats. because it wouldn't be a livable society. so you do operate in the post-9/11 world in particular in an environment with a heightened sense that something could happen, but i am willing to accept that level of of risk. >> does this make us feel differently about all the nsa

talk? i mean, the reason that it's difficult to happen here, not impossible, obviously, is because the new york sa dosa do and put together. >> with the nsa stuff, at least if you've got somebody who was living with a guy who committed suicide and he admittedly committed the act, i think that's probable cause. i think sweeping up everybody, you tend to get into that kind of singapore-like society which i don't think most people want here. >> we'll get spanked. >> i want to bring in our international security analyst peter bergen. officials are taking this kind of attack seriously although they don't think al shabaab has this kind of capability in the united states. do you back that up? do you think that a, that sha baub would have an attack in the united states or that some other group, even homegrown or self-radicalizeded would be able to attack a soft target like this in the united states? >> i think it's unlikely on the

al shabaab front. most of the americans who get recruited to go to somalia, one-way ticket. often they die there. a subject of law enforcement attention. there are a lot of soft targets. we do see attacks on self-targets. if you do the thought experiment where a lot of them conducting by people shouting ala akbar or hard to judge motivation we'd be having a different kind of conversation in fact, attacks by people motivated by al qaeda's ideology in the united states on soft targets are pretty infreque infrequent. we saw in the boston marathon bombing two people who did this. they weren't located by nsa surveillance. nsa surveillance i think the role it plays in averting terrorist attacks has been much exaggerated by the government if you really look at the record. which isn't to say that it isn't sometimes useful. but americans need to have a conversation about the bounds between security and liberty.

if we were facing an existential threat from these folks, maybe we would sacrifice a lot of our liberties. but in this case, the threat is really pretty minor. >> really does show us, though, that the veneer of civil lags is really very thin. anything like this can just make -- throw everything upside down. >> it also gets to this idea that we're kind of arbitrarilily drawing the line of terrorism, right? if we take terrorism as the grand -- more grand concept of instilling terror in the population and you look at just recent mass shootings, we want to just connect terrorists to people who have been radicalized or who have some sort of -- >> bombing is terrorist. school shooting is not. >> someone goes into the navy yard, navy complex and kills 12 people and terrorizes everyone there and all of d.c. but i'm just saying, that the idea that we just kind of arbitrarily say because of the

motivation -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> bombs aren't being sold by large gun manufacturers. [ overlapping speakers ] >> but terrorism by definition has a political agenda or is designed for make an impact. peter, isn't that where you make the distinction between something that causes fear, that causes a sense of terror and something that is actually terrorism? >> yes. that's the distinction. it's obviously done with a political purpose. but we're kind of agreeing in a sense here that there's a lot of violence in the united states, which for one reason or another we kind of process in a different way merely because the people involved don't have some obvious political motivation. i think that's unfortunate. the fact that aaron alexis killed 12 people in the navy yard for reasons that are pretty obscure is just as tragic as if somebody kills four people in boston who's motivated by al qaeda's ideology. doing the math it's three times more tragic. >> i wanted to ask you a

question. i want to ask about the white widow. we've always been discussing it sounds like an ian fleming character. but i wanted to know if you think that someone like that would be such a valuable asset. i know you've said because of her gender it's unlikely someone like that would be involved with al shabaab. but wouldn't she be an incredible asset, an english-speaking white woman? >> sure she would be. when we look at the cases in the united states by people motivated by this ideology, it's 98% guys. but there are some women, jihad jane who was kind of a high school dropout from grew up in pennsylvania, had a couple of failed marriages under her belt. she was recruited. she had some kind of plan to kill a cartoonist who put down a portrait of the profit mohammad that some people deemed objectionable. traveled to europe. she pled guilty. she was the perfect recruit because people wouldn't expect her. so you're absolutely right, alison. still it's rather the exception not the rule. >> wouldn't she be a bigger asset if she were in a society where she blended in?

being in kenya is not actually blending in. >> if you're an somali you're not a kenyan. in terms of wanting to invest in western assets, western assets there. she can move very easily. she could raise money. >> to the ex pat communities. it's very catered to the ex pat community, diplomats and others who live there, people who work for ngos. peter up don't believe necessarily that a group like al shabaab given their ideology and traditional makeup would employ a woman like that as we talked about before, though, on the 8:00 show there are groups that have used women. the tigers in sri lanka used a lot of suicide bombers and chechnyan terrorists. >> the hard core terrorists like al shabaab is exceptional, not at all common. they might recruit somebody to be a suicide attacker who's a female. we saw that in iraq pretty

often. but to have somebody play a very active operational role, we haven't seen that except in the case as you pointed out in chechnya. >> has it been clear how the few somali americans who have gone over to work for al shabaab and eventually blown themselves up, four suicide attacks. i know the first suicide attack in america was with al shabaab in somalia. is it know how they were recruited? >> it's a pretty clear pitch. cedar rapids, iowa. dead end jobs, somebody comes along and says an ethiopian army has invaded our army, go over there. going to be shooting weapons. it appeals to the romantic side of people. religious struggle and pitch that is basically full of lies. because when they get over there, it's a lot less exciting than it appeared. but that's the pitch.

>> we're going to leave it there. peter bergen, thank you. nima in nairobi as well. follow me on twitt twitter @andersoncooper. a new trial for a florida woman whose stand your gound defense was rejected. she fired a warning shot to scare off her abusive husband. didn't hit anyone. she got 20 years behind bars. i'll talk about her case with the panel next. ♪

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and definitely not with our health. innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. later tonight there's new hope for a woman named marissa alexander from florida sentenced to 20 years for firing a warning shot to scare her husband. the case got attention during the trayvon martin case, people asking why george zimmerman went free when marissa alexander got 20 years. she claimed stand your ground. the center of both cases, florida prosecutor angly corey who had this to say a few days after zimmerman's acquittal. >> i heard the other day that someone i think from the naacp was trashing us for prosecuting marissa alexander. she fired a shot through a wall on the other side of the wall were two young black boys,

younger than i hav von martin. they're not victims? >> marissa alexander is getting a new trial, not on the basis of her stand your ground defense but because of what an appeals court deemed improper jury instructions. our panel is back in the fifth chair journalist alison stewart. mark geragos does this make any sense to you? >> no sense. angela corey i said it before when we were doing that zimmerman block is a menace? it shows you today she released a statement that said she was -- the case was reversed on a technicality. >> technicality. a constitutional violation she considers a technicality. this woman if she was pretty and white and had fired that gun would have gotten probation. >> really you believe that? >> i defended a woman who will remain nameless within the last 12 months, same set of facts, who was pretty and white, and i got her probation. she didn't do any time. >> because the constitution violation here was that the

judge instructed the jury that they had to prove -- the defendant had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, not prosecution, the defendant had to prove that it was self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. >> how would a judge give that instruction? >> somebody was brain-dead. because that shifts the burden to the defendant. they consider a constitutional violation of the fifth amendment basically to be a technicality. that's why i say she's -- >> nobody is disputing that her husband had been abusive. >> right. >> and i mean, it was a warning shot. i wonder if she had actually shot him -- >> one thing stand your ground does is it says don't leave them standing. kill the person that you're shooting so they will never against you. that is the case with trayvon martin. you will never hear that side of the story. but because the husband who said that he was a victim is able to switch his story, which is what he did, switch his story between the first interview and his testimony from saying that i had

put my hands use of the language all of my baby mamas, five except one and he would have probably put his hands on her if she did not have the gun. it really says that. that's a really strange part of this law. the other part of this is the incredible irony of how the law was passed in first place. you have to go back to 2005. this law was passed a big part of the argument was for abused women. that women who were not -- >> exactly. >> they did not want you -- the nra was pressing this very hard to say what do you want the woman to do? she's in her home. she should not have to run out of her home. >> do you know the prosecutor's argument here is if she had gone into the garage and then back into the house. because she kept, mind you, the gun in the garage so the kids couldn't get at it. and entering back into the house was the reason that she's doing 20 years. >> i want to bring in marissa alexander's attorney joining us via remote.

you've heard the discussion here. what happens now? what is the legal situation now? >> what happens is that within about 20 to 30 days, the appellate court will issue what's known as a mandate which basically says the opinion is final and will bring the case back to jacksonville. we'll get in front of the circuit court judge. we'll set a trial date. we'll have a bond hearing. be ready to give her a fair trial. >> but is she able to make the case that this was stand your ground? >> she will be able to at trial to use the stand your ground defense. and we think it's a classic stand your ground case. just as you alluded to earlier. >> right. and it's being reported that she won't be able to, but i think that's people misreading the opinion. it's people saying okay she's not going to get another immunity hearing but she clearly can assert self-defense at a new trial. >> mark, can i ask you a very basic legal question? when does the attorney know how the judge is going to charge the

jury? because i was actually on a jury -- not a similar case but where the way the judge charged it, we couldn't get past the first charge to get to what the guy had actually done. >> right. >> when does the attorney find out? >> normally, most judges will ask for -- in the federal system they ask for your packet of instructions before you ever start the case. state is much looser. the state you're in the middle of trial, maybe the day before you do closing sometimes i've had it where all of a sudden they give you the instructions and you're fumbling around. here in this case, and bruce i think will support me, the instructions completely shifted the burden of proof. and somebody's left there the night before the closing argument saying wait a second here, now i got to prove beyond a reasonable doubt? all of a sudden i've got to do what traditionally for 200 years what the prosecutor had to do. >> so the attorney couldn't tailor his case in any way. >> absolutely not. >> because the instructions came so late. >> plus the thing that just irks me about this and why i get so kind of apopleptic about it. this is where a prosecutor's supposed to use their discretion.

this is where a proper holds all the cards. the defense does not have -- contrary to what they think, the defense is not unlimited. the prosecution's got the unlimited budget. the prosecute can charge you to death in any case. they need to ex ersize their discretion and say those little boys are not the victim here of marissa alexander. the little boys are the victims of angela corey for this grocery overcharging, asking for -- she says, well, i offered three years state prison in this case. really? that's a good offer? >> bruce, there was a plea bargain offer to your client and she declineded that, correct? what was the thinking then? >> well, that's correct. and just getting back to the brain-dead comment from earlier, i was not the trial attorney. and i was also not the plea attorney before the trial. my understanding is there was a plea offer. she rejected the plea offer and exercised her right to trial. >> but the plea offer was three years prison, right?

>> yeah. well, yeah. and again, is that really an offer? >> no, it's a nonoffer. >> and she has a new borne. >> three years? give me a break. >> that's i think the bigger thing. you shouldn't. if there's any case for stand your ground, it is the abused wife. it is someone in your home. you cannot run away from this person because they live in your home. and you are trying to defend yourself from someone who is in your home. but when you look at all the stand your ground cases, which one of the florida papers did like 235 of them -- >> do you see a pattern? >> there are only 33 where domestic violence was involved. >> i thought stand your ground is an affirmative defense. you did have to -- >> it's a form of self-defense. and by the way, bruce, i wasn't saying you were brain-dead. it was the trial judge. so please, accept my apologies if you took it that way. >> still get a parking tick

zbl ticket. >> i'm not going to florida trust me anytime soon. this case is a microcosm of what happens in america when the prosecutor, we have shift so much power to prosecutors. we have let prosecutors in the federal and state system control the deck. >> they have immunity. >> you can't sue them except in slivers of 1983 civil rights actions. but other than that, being a prosecutor means never having to say you're sorry. you just get to do whatever it is you want to do. >> in your gut if trayvon martin's case hadn't happened would we know at all about this woman? >> i think thus is an extraordinary case aside from the trayvon martin case. >> i don't think it's that extraordinary. i think it happens more often than not. the prosecutors charge people who don't have the ability to defend themselves, and they charge them so overgrossly charged that you have to make a decision. am guying to go to state prison for three years or am i going to roll the dice and face 20? >> bruce, part of this long sentence is because the mandatory minimum, just showing a gun let alone firing one in

florida, it automatically inadvocates a certain number of years. >> it does. and the aspect that mark is talking about, having formerly been a federal prosecutor, you can't imagine the amount of power that you have and the exercise of that discretion is so important in how you proceed with these cases. at the end of the day, i spoke with her about 2:00 this afternoon. she's ecstatic. she can't wait to get back with her family. and to be vindicated. >> bruce, i appreciate your time tonight. thank you very much. we'll continue to follow this case. up next, racial segregation in sororities at the university of alabama. i can't even believe we're talking about this but it's true. the student-run newspaper quoted a member of an all-white sorority who said they would not let black women join. we'll be right back.

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sororities. welcome back to "ac 360 later." in a moment we'll talk about racial segregation in the university of alabama in sororities a stunning story that's been making headlines. before we go any further i want to walk us down memory lane with alison stewart. alison and i began many years ago worked together at world news now at abc. let's take a look at a clip, shall we? >> oh, my. >> i boxed with the navy back in '57. >> that's right. [ laughter ] >> the in euro boxing. >> that's right. that was after prison golden gloves [ laughter ] >> you're prefeatherweight.

what's less than featherweight? you're teeny. >> i'm teeny? how long have you been here? can i just show you something? can we get a tight shot of this? what does this say? anderson cooper, senior anchor. >> that was world news now. >> that's before you went to the gun show, my friend. started working out. >> that was willis in the background our cameraman laughing. >> the best cameraman ever. >> he laughs like a 12-year-old girl like i do. >> he's awesome. about 320. he's a big man. >> a big guy. >> large black man. >> but this was a show. still on at abc. but basically our viewers were night shift workers, drunks and nursing mothers. that was basically -- >> i could get served in any bar in manhattan. >> in addition to being coanchors on that alison has written a book called "first class the legacy of dunbar america's first black public high school." congratulations on this. >> thank you so much. >> tell us about the story.

>> well, my parents went to dunbar high school. they used to tell me that all the time about all these great teachers they had like ph.ds and masters. and all the great graduates that came out of dunbar. >> where was dunbar high? >> in washington, d.c. >> still is. >> still is. it was a segregated school. my parents were there in the 40s. they would tell me about did you know out of dunbar came the first black general in the army, first black presidential cabinet member, first black federal judge. i was working for a news organization. i said i've got to go see this place. i went in and it looked like a sad set from urban abandoned high school. the legacy had just been lost. so i decided it was important to go around and interview all these people in their 80s and 90s who could tell me what dunbar was like when dunbar was dunbar in segregated washington, d.c. these people could speak french and latin but couldn't go into restaurants, couldn't live in certain parts of d.c. i thought it was an interesting story. >> what's the name of the book again? >> first class. >> just trying to help. >> thank you very much. the university of alabama says

four african-american women have accepted bids to historically white sororities, something the university's president is calling a first step toward removing barriers in the greek system on campus. the school has been facing criticism ever since the student newspaper ran an article that said that several sororities denied membership to black students solely based on race. it's obviously an extraordinary story. i want to bring in nathan james. he's a junior at the university of alabama who's been writing columns about this subject for the student-run newspaper, "the crimson white." james, thanks very much for being with us. >> so how long has this been going on? i mean, okay. >> segregation? >> yeah. is this the first year african-americans have actually been invited to join some sororities? >> there has actually been one in previous years at least that i'm aware of. carla ferguson in 2003 was admitted to a traditionally white sorority. at that point in time we all thought that was the end of segregation here on campus.

obviously it wasn't. the last that i'm aware of and to the best of my knowledge actually the only african-american who's been accepted into a traditionally white fraternity or sorority. how have these sororities defended this practice? how have they justified this? >> really the defense that's been used in every case pretty much has been that it's a private organization. and that therefore it has the right to make its own -- the right to make its own admissions decisions. >> do you have a greek row on campus? >> we do. >> and so they're housed on campus? >> they're house on campus. >> at a state school. >> at a state school. i know. that's my argument. >> don't they have any lawyers down there? [ laughter ] >> also greek life is an important part of campus life, correct? >> tremendously so. >> right. so not being a part of it is a significant thing. it's not like a school where it's not a big deal. i mean, it blows my mind that this is going on. >> it blows my mind nobody has

done anything. >> are there all black sororities? >> traditionally black fraternities and vor tis as well. i read somewhere they were integrated in the 80s on that campus. is that right? >> well, there are traditionally black fraternities and sororities. there are also multicultural fraternities and sororities that tend to be pretty well-integrated. i shouldn't say that because i'm not specifically aware of any demographics statistics. but those tend to be more inclusive. those do have members from multiple race or racial and ethnic backgrounds. and it really has been the case that it's a sort of dichotomy where you have the white fraternities and sororities and everything else. >> how did this become a story this year? i mean, if this has been going on so long and nobody's really seemed to be concerned about it, how did it blow up this year? >> pretty much every year "the crimson white" our student newspaper will break a story. >> your newspaper is called "the

crimson white." i'd like to acknowledge that for a moment. i know it's got a long tradition and a rich history. just yeah. >> obviously tradition carries a lot of weight. [ laughter ] >> it does. so people have talked about it but not until this year did it really blow up? . well, yeah, basically. it's been talked about. it's been discussed. it's really progressed past even the point of an open secret. it's just something that people know about. this year specifically "the crimson white" broke a story about two african-american girls fantastic candidates for the sorority system. one woman had a 4.3 high school gpa, her family was connected in local politics and i think state politics as well. she volunteered, and she was beautiful and all these other things and was rejected from every white sorority on campus. >> was that the root piece? >> that was what started discussion. >> was the person who wrote that piece, did they feel like they

were being physically or physically uncomfortable for having exposed this? >> it was a -- it wasn't really -- excuse me. it was very objective. it was very factual and really didn't get into any kind of feelings on the part of the person who wrote it. i'm not actually sure who wrote that. but it was very much kind of in that journalistic style objectively reported the facts. >> does it stun you? >> it does not. >> that's one of the things i love about you it stuns you. >> i told you my parents went to a segregated school so i'm not a fossil. >> my dad is from mississippi. and i like to think -- i go down there and i like to think -- >> there's so many pockets. every time there's a segregated prom somewhere and it becomes a national story and people go like i can't believe this is still happening. and i think that there are pockets in the south, and kind of historical legacy systems

that keep this sort of thing going. i mean, my family's buried in a segregated cemetery to this day. there's a chain link fence that runs down the middle of the cemetery to this day. if you walk today there it is. and that is real. in parts of the south. and i think that we are slowly working through that. >> i'm old enough so that when i was a freshman in college, this would have been 1964, there was still fraternities and sororities that were sanctioned on campus that had white christian claus clauss. as a freshman jewish kid i couldn't get into them. one of them said they were willing to go back in their national space. but the truth is, up wasn't strong enough. i wasn't as strong as that girl or that woman he was talking about or these women that have accepted bids now. i didn't feel that comfortable in being the only jew in the house. >> we've got to take a break. nathan james, appreciate you joining us. thank you very much, nathan "the crimson white."

i had to say it again. i'm sorry. i'm just amazed. >> in case you didn't get it. the state of california moves to bar paparazzi from harassing the children of celebrities. can this law actually work and is it fair? we'll talk about it ahead.

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♪ welcome back. california's governor jerry brown has signed a new law that's designed to protect the children of celebrities from aggressive paparazzi, photographers, two high profile actresses halle berry and jennifer garner testified in support of the law claiming that prying photographers scare the daylights out of their kids. the law increases fines and jail time for paparazzi found to be guilty of harassing kids. the question is can this law really be effective? we're back with our panel. does this make any sense to you, mark geragos? >> i've dealt with this problem. the year before last i had nicole richie and joel madden. we went and actually filed and got a restraining order against paparazzi who had shown up at the nursery school when she was going to pick up sparrow. and they had scared the daylights out of the kid. on the grounds of the nursery school by running up onto the steps of it, taking pictures and everything else. the problem with this law is, i don't think it's going to pass constitutional muster. it's too vague, number one. probably makes a status out of the special person who's

protecting which is the celebrity. it's great for photo ops because the senators and the assemblymen love to have halle berry come and testify in front of them, and the governor's -- jerry brown's not going to veto that. but at the same time, you can't just create a special law just for celebrities. >> how do you define even what a celebrity is? >> a list or d list. it's a crime if somebody's not that popular anymore? >> i do have a friend who's a prosecutor. she's worried about her own child. she's glad her child has a different name in a public school because she's prosecuted some very high profile people. she's been very concerned about people approaching her child because of what her mother does and taking pictures. someone actually tried. >> there's no doubt it's incredibly irritating for these people to have their kids photographed to have people screaming. a lot of these photographers will try to get -- will provoke the person in order to get a response. >> they provoke you so they can get you making some kind of a goofy face so that that picture will then be a got you. >> then why was the law not

written to be about staying away from schools and playgrounds and places where children would normally be where they would expect to be safe? >> because that's not sexy. >> in new york, can i tell you an anecdotal story. there's a playground in new york where celebrities take their kids all the time. hugh jackman goes all the time. all the moms line their backs up in front of the paparazzi. >> to protect. want to bring in bonnie fuller president and editor in chief of hollywood life.com. former editor of "us weekly," cosmo. great to have you on the program. this a good law and b, do you think the law can actually work? >> first of all i have for say i'm a mother of four. so i'm very sympathetic to the issue and of course to having your children frightened in any way by paparazzi or anybody else. on the other hand i have to agree, the way the law is written it's so unspecific, it doesn't have anything about keeping paparazzi certain

distance away from the children. and i think that is probably the most essential thing that needs to be in here if it actually is to be effective. the other thing is, again, it's written in such a general way. it could affect celebrities who are young themselves who are teen stars. like what about justin bieber? i mean, he was a star when he was 14, 15 years old. >> he could do with a few less pictures. >> he's 18. but he wanted pictures. but he also could say, hey, the paparazzi are scaring me. and think about politicians like people who become -- who have children and they become celebrities in the limelight for a short period of time. >> there's a general understanding i think -- first of all, politicians aren't chased by paparazzi. >> tmz is not running around looking for the kids of politicians. >> there's a general understanding that the kids, unless the politician, him or herself brings the kids into the game. >> there's a real market for the pictures of celebrity's kids, right? i mean, no offense, i don't read your web site or these kind of

magazines. but obviously there is a huge market for these images, correct? >> not as big as you would think. there is a market. but there's a market primarily for really cute, happy-looking pictures of celebrities with their children. i don't know of anybody who wants to run pictures of scared children. i mean, at hollywood life we run a lot of pictures -- >> in order to get the picture of the happy kid you have to get up close. you're still trailing these children. still training the celebrities. >> not always. first of all, a lot of celebrities really like to have their children on the red carpet with them. a lot of celebrities pose with their children. think about the celebrities who have their own reality shows with their children like tori spelling. >> it's different for a playground order nursery school. >> we're talking about a nursery school. where they're jumping onto the school property and running up to the door to get a picture of the kid coming out. to me that's a no brain. >> it's not on the red carpet we're talking about. in some of those magazines they

have the sections look they're just like us. and it's the kid in the shopping mall or seat kid with their parents. >> he obviously does read. >> i did research on this. >> i know. but my point is that the pictures of celebrities and their children looking happy and smiling and very often i mean very often posing for the camera are much more popular than -- i mean, you see those much more. >> i know people in new york who have kids who paparazzi wait outside their house every day while they take their kid to school. and that is clearly not something the child wants or even the parent wants. >> and i think that something actually does need to be done, whether it be about distance or certain places. because i think some of the saddest pictures you ever see is when the parents have the blanket draped over the kid's faces or over their entire bodies. i always look at those pictures and think, what kind of life is that for the child to have to go through constantly be draped in a blanket?

>> can i point something out? most of those pictures where there's a blanket draped over, a lot of them are because the celebrity has sold the pictures of the first pictures of the child to a publication. and that's why they're covering the child up. >> isn't a lot of that also to kind of demistify to get the picture out of the child so that then you're not followed -- you're not hounded for that first picture? >> that's some of the thinking. i also though want to just say another thing. and again, i don't think that any child or parent should want to be in a position where they're worried. but even in very high profile cases or high profile children, like suri cruise, there were a lot of pictures when they divorced for act ten days when that divorce was going on and it was in the news all the time. then i have to say i didn't see a picture of suri for months after that. so it's not in most cases like an everyday occurrence. it's a once in awhile that they will have a picture that the

child will turn up. >> i have a question for you. the people halle berry and jennifer garners are declaring victory. should they be? >> for right now they got a law passed. what's going to happen -- some city attorney because it's a misdemeanor, some city attorney will file in l.a. and they will be a paparazzi there and he'll challenge the law. and then my guess is or my prediction is somebody or some judge will declare it unconstitutional. so that's a ways down. >> it's also interesting. there is a lot of hypocrisy in this. it's like when princess diana died. people coming out to reporters at the time saying how dare you, you guys hounded her. not they ever hounded princess diana but i guess i was representative or something. it's people buying the publications. there's a market for this. >> right. remember there was a reason why people were paying for kim kardashian's nori west's picture and why the various publications want it. they're not paying for it,

meaning the media's not paying for it unless it gets ratings or people are buying the magazines. they do it by clicks. they know who's popular, who's not. my kid's getting photographed are not going to sell anything but kim and kanye or jay-z's will. so the same people who are condemning this are the same people who are buying the magazines or clicking onto the web sites. >> or tuning into the reality shows that a lot of those celebrities have in which they feature their own children. and also there's a lot of celebrities that are grooming their children to have great careers, too. look at will and jada pinkette smith. they had their daughter willow in quite an astounding -- but it was very artistic video, a music video whiffing her hair. she was about 13 years old. so i think it's just very difficult. which celebrities don't want their children photographed? which do want their children photographed? which want their children to be stars? which celebrities have reality shows? it's hard. >> it should be the parents's

choice. i still think whether or not we believe at this table that they're being exploitive in some instances and not in others but somebody in the middle of a divorce they want to be seen with the kid to make someone think they're good parents that week or not, that's up to them. that is a parental right. it is my right as a parent to determinate what point i want to have my child in the public eye and not. and it is no one else's right to sweep in and say, today because you let the cat out of the bottle or whatever, cat out of the -- mixed metaphor, bag, whatever. thank you, mark. that now he or she is fair game and that i can just take pictures or i can run up to their preschool. that is not okay. this is not okay, bonnie. >> but how is anybody supposed to know which day it is? the day you want to promote your child and yourself. >> i think it should be privacy of the child. that should be the default position of every publication interested in these particular pictures. if the parent makes that child available you use the pictures. that should be the default position, no other.

>> i have to say i don't know a single person whose kid is named grape nuts flakes or whatever, i don't know people like that. >> that's because you live in washington. you've got to get out more. bonnie fuller, good to have you on the program. up next what's your story where members of the panel get to talk about the story that caught their eye. maybe you missed the it today, maybe i did. we'll see what it is ahead. i had pain in my abdomen... it just wouldn't go away.thing. i was spotting, but i had already gone through menopause. these symptoms may be nothing... but they could be early warning signs of a gynecologic cancer, such as cervical, ovarian, or uterine cancer. feeling bloated for no reason. that's what i remember. seeing my doctor probably saved my life. warning signs are not the same for everyone. if you think something's wrong... see your doctor. ask about gynecologic cancer. and get the inside knowledge. [ dings ] ♪

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we are back with our panel. time for what's your story. when we ask each of our panelists to choose a story they find interesting or that others might have missed. rich what's your story? >> i think that the voyager spacecraft that was launched back in the early 90s finally made it out of the solar system and into interstellar space. it took us tens of thousands of years to learn how to throw things, spears, whatever, and in just a few decades we learned how to throw something a billion miles away. >> i didn't know that. alison. >> i'm a little obsessed with the libertarian candidate for governor in virginia. the two other candidates are so i guess -- >> bad. >> thank you. the libertarian candidate is getting 10% of the vote in one of the recent polls. an interesting guys, a j.d., an engineering degree, and he's married to a black lady doctor.

>> and you're interested in virginia. >> i'm interested in virginia. i am in virginia. and then i texted my sister who lives in richmond. she said may work for new york city but not the capital of confederacy. question mark question mark. bill deblaus yo our likely mayor and his interracial family. >> has it been talked about? >> no. you're from virginia, right? that i found very interesting as well. >> not even sure if he's invited to the debates. >> you're you've got a story you've been following this rape case out of montana. >> in montana. because i think if i'm not mistaken, the defendant was released today. now the question is -- >> for those who aren't following, this is a teacher, raped his 14-year-old student. she ended up committing suicide. a judge sentenced him to 30 days in jail, saying that the girl, the victim in this, was much older than her chronological age. >> correct. >> craziest phrase i've ever heard. >> so many tributaries on this.

then the judge tried to come out and after he was pilloried in the media tried to come out and resentence. both sides the prosecution and the defense went to the state supreme court. got him restrained that he couldn't redo the hearing. he did it anyway. kind of like in some theater just sitting there in a courtroom with a camera. no participants and tried to say what he had done. and really blamed both sides. >> a reporter tried to basically get a quote from the teacher who was released today. he basically just brushed by her. obviously not saying anything. he could face -- >> more jail time. it's a fascinating legal issue. he's been sentenced. he did his time. now -- and apparently if you look at the law, he should have gotten a minimum of two years. so now is the supreme court going to say you have to go back? go back to jail? you've got to do the remaining 23 months? or are they going to say, no, sorry, you waived it. >> we'll follow it. it's unbelievable. want to thank everybody on the panel tonight. alison great to have you here. richard as well. charles, mark as well.

that's it for "ac 360 later." thanks for watching. don't miss" ac 360" at 8:00 p.m. we'll have a repeat right after this. be right back. this summer, we got the ball rolling. in cities across the country, coca-cola joined with communities and local leaders to roll out a summer filled with activity. from atlanta to l.a., people all over found that getting moving can be fun. in fact, it can be a day at the beach! all in all, we inspired three million people to rediscover the joy of being active. now, let's keep it going all year long and make a difference... together. with an ultra-thin coating and fast absorbing advil ion core™ technology, it stops pain before it gets worse. nothing works faster. new fast acting advil. look for it in the white box.

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