than the republicans, beinger than obama. this is about whether america a governable. i think that they lost, and i am happy happy happy. how are you? >> first of all, this is about cross roads. i think this is a sad day for america. i think it's a day where we didn't fix obama care, which is failing in every single state. it's a day when we didn't fix the budget which will bankrupt our children and grandchildren. it's a day that we didn't fix the bureaucracies, we saw no sign of the president leading the country. what we saw was a partisan vilifying his opponents in a way that makes for sense for an incumbent president. but tonight, in "crossfire", we have to congressmen, rhode island david sissolini, and steve this is part of my pop you

list bias, i guess. we see leaders meeting in secret to design a secret deal which they announce the principles up, which they released the 35 pages of, which the senate will vote on before the american people know what's in it. in the end we're not going to get anything major. we're going to kick the can down the road. don't you think we should find a way to get back to more open government, more open legislating, and some kind of -- >> i would say, mr. speaker, first of all i disagree it's a secret. this was the position from of the president from the beginning, open government, so we don't -- raise the debt dreyling and send this matter to the conference commit aye, regular order, so we hammer out a resolution.

i think today the republicans finally accepted that proposal so the government will open, so we won't default, and we'll have a process in the budget committee. the house passed a budget, the budget i voted against, the senate passed a budget, then the nbc thing is the kirsch committee. the speaker refused to appoint conferrees. we asked him back in april. i sent a her, so there is a process. i think today's deal will make sure that we go to regular order so we can have a long they have term solution and adopt a budget. >> why should any of us believe that having failed to get anything done for months and months, we now have a magic date of december 13th, and magically this thing will work. >> i don't think it will be

magic, but the reality is not having a krch committee, because the side dug agree. there's two difference versions, and you go to conference, work out the differences, but to suggest we shouldn't have a conference committee, because the differences are big, we never have a krch committee. make it in bub, where they have to defend the ryan budget, and let the voters see that. >> fair enough. first of all t. welcome congressperson. i can't wait to hear from you. you have an opportunity to do something pretty important to raise a debt ceiling, because of the shutdown that you were a big part of, a lot of people, i think 350,000 people who right now are sitting home, should be including my cousin, my best friend from high school.

are you going to vote tonight to put them back to work? >> first of all, i voted four different time to open -- each one of those times harry leigh just tabled the bill sum matterly, then we parted 14 bills, to open up different parts of government where we had agreement. i spent an hour and a half with the president in the white house last week. the first offer was we'll raise the debt ceiling if you agree to start negotiating. the fact that the president is declares victory over the fact to then get a deal from the republicans and the senate the reason we're hitting is the debt ceiling is the government -- >> you may have missed my question. i understand you're relegating the past, but tonight, here you are. are you going to vote with your speaker? are you going to vote with the

senate? are you going to vote with the had uns of thousands of federal workers who want to get back to work? are you going to vote with the some earns who are terrified we'll hit this debt ceiling. >> first of all, i voted for 14 different bills to open the government back up. this bill -- look, van, if you like crisis to crisis living, which clearly the president likes, this sets up another kroiz on january 15th, and the debt ceiling -- >> does that mean you're voting against -- >> why do we want to set up a deal -- they don't want a deal that lasts -- >> how are you voting tonight? >> i'll be voting no on this deal, but i votedie 20 different times. this forces yet another crisis. on january 14th, you're going to be sitting there with the president, let's max out another credit card. >> you're voting again opening the government. >> from the standpoint if you're

are you remember noal american and you've watched this for years, the only time there's been a major breakthrough in spending was in 2011, clearly a crisis, and produced the entire process the president hates, where we simply sequester money. why would you now look up and say, you know? the very same people who have refused, as you point out, have refused to conference, and the very same people who are apart they're now going to somehow magically over thanksgiving solve the problems so by january 15th. do you think by january 15th -- i'm not talking about shutdown, but do you think about january 15th we'll have a big enough agreement that in any significant way it will move the process of indebtedness? >> i think we have to go through this process. look this shutdown has cost according to s & p cost $24

billion the threat of default has had an adverse effect on our economy. i think every reasonable economist has said a default would be cat trophic where the we're the reserve currency to the world. the implication of that are difficult to even contemplate. so i think this has shown we have to come together and how -- go through the budget process. we did cuts in spending. the president said we need to do the same thing. more targeted kinds in spending, and we can do that, about you we need to go through the regular process inlts i've been fascinated by this assertion. the stock market from the beginning of this fight to today hasn't moved. >> you know why? because they cannot that the republican leaders in the congress would be so reckleqreq

allow the u.s. to default. frankly i hope they're right, because they realize to do that would be so catastrophic. >> there's only one person that can bring us to default and that's barack obama. in fact, barack obama made it clear he was willing to default. we passed a bill out of the house to take default off the table, to guarantee we can't default. he issued a veto threat on that bill. so clearly he wants the threat of default, which is dangerous and reckless for this president. >> this process began because you and others in the republican party decided to use the debt ceiling and the threat of closing down government to repeal the affordable care act, something enacted by the house, passed by the senate, signed by the president, aeveryday by the supreme court. then after that a presidential election which your candidate said i'm going to repeal it, the president said i'll defend it, he did that. despite all of that evidence, your party set we're going to shut down the government and risk default unless you agree to repeat it or delay it. >> barack obama made it clear hi

wanted a government shutdown. he had signs at the worked war ii memoriam that said this place is closed because of the shutdown. so he already had that set up. we didn't want a shutdown. we wanted to solve the spending problem in washington. >> what about obama care? >> it's one of the things holding our economy back. in southeast louisiana, the biggest impediment every small business talk about is the president's health care law. it wasn't a partisan issue. you have james hoffa, the head of the teams sisters union, no friend of mine, saying it's destroying the. >> what terrifying me, and i know we have to go to break, it seems like you haven't learned anything. what was all this for? you said it was about obama care, you didn't repeal it, you couldn't even steal the health care from your staffers. what was all this for? >> don't worry. president obama gave an xemps for members of congress and

state of while he's saying everybody else, regular hard-working families have to live until the law. in fact people that go to the exchanges spent over $600 million t. doesn't even work. the president is willing to shut the government down. >> we've got to come back in a little bit. hold on, everybody. we are still waiting for the senate to begin voting on the deal. the last 48 hours have been so wild and wooly, i think speaker boehner faces a major strategic decision. i'll go thus his options, next. life with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis

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welcome back. we are waiting for the u.s. senate to begin voting on the deal to reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling. we have democrat david cicillini, and scalise. if he can't rely on the real activists, how does he governs for the next two years. if he can get the republican votes to pass something -- can he take, should he take 180 or so republicans and find numb democrats to work with him that they could routinely pass things? it will mean accepting the permanent anger of about 50 members of his party and many outside groups, but it might

enable him to run the house. what's the best future for the house, given what happened in the last 48 hours? >> well, since you're here, and you're in this weird situation, you guyed -- boehner backed you, basically. i think he didn't want to take it this far. you said, look, let's go. now he's kind of going away from you and towards democrats. will you continue to back boehner? is this something you're going to hold against him, or do you think he's your hero? >> i support the way he's handled this. i was in that room with him and a few other members, where he was putting option after option on the table to president obama, and president obama said i'm not even going to be willing to negotiate on anything. it's a tough situation when you have a speaker saying look, i'm here to negotiate. we have cast a lot of votes to past bill that the president and people in his parties would say we don't want to fund. we actually cast the votes to --

>> but quick follow-up. i think the speaker put on the table, this is a leadership position from him. how is he supposed to move forward? to get stuff done, he may have to move in more of a direction of working with democrats. you don't seem to be willing to go with him in that direction. how does this work? how is the tea party thinking about this now? he was with you? basically you guys from my point of view took you into a ditch. he's going to be working -- do you turn on him? >> look, harry reid and president obama brought him into this ditch. he tried -- neither of them wanted to negotiate at all. that's where they've been, but going forward, there's been a lot of things we've worked with speaker boehner on. not one democrat voted for a farm bill. most people would have said that could never be got. we want to work -- >> i think the speaker raises a important question. i this think he has to make the

decision, does he want to govern or be the leader of the republican caucus? on every issue, on the immigration bill, on the infrastructure plan, on dealing with the budget, if he's prepared to accept a governing coalition and some group of republicans, we can get the work done. that's what our country needs right now. >> i was here with tip o'neil, and you had this kind of coalition. it was virtually all the republicans. i think what has to happen is speaker boehner has to accept the nothing what is right is to building a coalition they can

pass bills in the house, but they're going nowhere. is the problem is you passed -- it will not pass the senate or will not be signed by the president. you want to make it work for the american people. so you say to the president, i think it requires a working -- and the speaker, the leader has made it very clear, she's interested in getting things done for the american people. and maybe the investments. >> that's just not been the case. we actually passed a bill to fund the senate institute of health. it was a bipartisan vote. >> oh, so you -- if we could get an agreement, you're saying shut it all down?

>> no, no, we didn't -- >> that's not a reasonable approach. >> a very practical matter. it's virtually impossible for me to -- that john boehner can -- that are acceptable. it's possible to imagine you could have a bipartisan coalition that comes together on one issue at a time. and i think boehner has a big choice. would she tolerate parts of her caucus on an issue by issue basis, deciding to form a bipartisan working grun? or will she insist that it has to be a boehner/pelosi negotiation, in which case frankly i think you're back to where we are right now? >> i think leader pelosi has been effective. i think she's been an effective advocate for our positions. i think she has demonstrated her willingness always to work with

the speaker. you know, she calls him regularly and says, what do you need? how do we make the votes a reality. so i think she's willing to do that. he frankly has to, as you said, come to terms is he willing to develop a governing coalition that may not including some of let me just ask this basic question. when this passes with or without you, you're going to be in budget negotiations. who is your leader? who is the leader of the republican party? it has been baffling from the outside to watch ted cruz act as a whip in the house and sometimes it seems like he is the speaker. is ted cruz your leader? is boehner your leader? who is your leader? >> it was harry that led to that. john bain is the leader as the speaker, but in the budget

negotiations, paul ryan is our budget chairman. i don't think there is anybody better in the town that understands how to solve real problems. if the president wants to solve problems, he knows he can work with paul. barack obama has a real question. does he want to be the leader of the free world and sit here and solve these problems? that are of the other party. >> you've done a great job of explaining that. who can deliver votes? >> we proved we can deliver votes to pass a budget. we passed the budget every year. it took senate four years to pass one. they have to pass things too. >> they passed one six months ago. >> i'm glad they got one. paul ryan has been talking to patty murray every week for the last six months. >> can paul deliver the votes? >> absolutely. >> on a budget deal. >> your question is one of the big challenges.

i think the speak order a number of instances has been unable to deliver the votes. when you're in some of these very difficult negotiations, there is no question leader pelosi delivers the votes. unequivocally. it is a different vote. we have tremendous confidence. the problem you is need to have somebody on the other side of the table who can deliver what he or she says. >> we care about the details. the details matter. should not we solve the problems? medicare is going abrupt in the next few years if we don't solve it. president obama wablnts to igno it. >> having served with carter and reagan and bush 1 and clinton, i thought it was almost weird today that the president found time to meet with miss america. but he hasn't found time to meet one-on-one with john boehner or time to meet with mitch mcconnell in months. doesn't he have to take a leadership role in working with

the congress before there's a crisis? >> i think a fair review of the presidency would reveal that he has attempted on more occasions than any president i can remember to reach out to people on both sides of the aisle. particularly people on the other side of the aisle to help craft solutions to the big challenges facing our country. and each time he has been repudiated. i think the president has met repeatedly -- >> that doesn't match. >> ronald reagan and tip o'neill -- >> they haven't agreed with his positions. there's lots of rgss could have. >> this is a great conversation. stay here. next, we're going to cease fire and see if there is anything you two can agree on. we're going to want you at home to weigh in on tonight's fire back question. who won the shutdown fight? you can apply president obama, republicans or the tea party. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals:

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senator ted cruz of texas has just started railing against this deal on the senate floor. he said it is terrible. let's listen in. >> 200, 300%. because of obama care this deal does nothing for them. and to all of the seniors, to all of the people with disabilities who are right now getting in the mail, notification that's they're losing their health insurance because of obama care, this deal

does nothing for them. mr. obama, this deal was always about the american people who are hurting because of obama care. and unfortunately today, the united states senate is saying, you don't have a voice in washington. you don't have a voice in washington. this is a terrible deal. i urge my colleagues here to oppose it. now, none of us should be surprised when the senate votes, this deal will pass and it will pass by a big margin. the outcome could have been different. i would ask you to imagine a different world. we saw in the last two months million of americans rise up, sign a national petition, light up the phones to the capitol and speak up against the enormous

harms obama care is visiting upon them. we saw the house of representatives stand with courage and listen to the american people. mr. president, i ask you to imagine a world in which senate republicans united to support house republicans. imagine that one piece being different from what we saw. imagine after the house republicans stood together with the american people, if all 46 senate republicans stood together and said we are united against the train wreck that is obama care. we are united with the american people, if president obama will give an exemption for big business, for members of congress, that the american people deserve that very same exemption. i want you to imagine, if senate republicans have stood together and simply supported house