the first half hour. >> agreed. see you at midnight. the house is voting on the deal to raise the debt ceiling and reopen the government. we'll be back live at midnight. right now "ac 360 later" starts right now with anderson cooper. welcome to "ac 360 later." it is down to the wire. live tonight in washington, d.c. where the house is now voting on a bill to reopen the government and extend the debt ceiling. it's not a moment too soon with the debt ceiling deadline two hours away. the deal passed the senate less than two hours ago by a vote of 81-18. it's really just a temporary fix if you can even call it a fix. funding the government through the middle of january, extending the debt ceiling through the middle of february. the president spoke earlier tonight. let's get the latest from chief congressional correspondent dana bash. dana, the voting has begun in the house. how long until it's over? >> reporter: 11 minutes until technically the vote is over.

people tend to strag gle in lat at night. there doesn't seem to be a doubt it's going to pass. a little bit in the weeds but it's telling. the fact that republican leaders were able to bring this to the floor so quickly it meant that every single member of congress had to agree to that. that tells you -- >> even those who were going to vote no for it. >> reporter: yes. they know this is inevitable, there's no reason to try to stop the train because the train's going to leave the station right away. >> there are a lot of tea party groups who seem to be watching this vote very carefully to see who votes for them to see possible primary challenges against this from house republicans. >> that's exactly right. several tea party-backed groups, other conservative grassroots groups have been sending notices to members of congress all day long, particularly republicans in the house saying we are going to count this. they judge them whether or not they should have a primary challenge based on a series of votes. they say this is going to be one of them. that is going to be a big thing.

it is possible that this vote might not -- expect it to pass but it won't be as big as it could have been because for some republicans it will be what we call a free vote. meaning they can think this is a good idea to vote for but they'll vote no to make sure they're not in political trouble at home. >> in terms of the president signing it would that happen tonight before midnight? >> >> reporter: that's a question for briann that usually the logistics of they call it enrolling a bill to get from here to the white house takes a few beats. if he's going to stay up for it i'm guessing he would stay up for it. i can't imagine why he wouldn't. >> do you know how quickly -- i've been getting text and tweets from people who want to bring their families to washington and go to the museums and parks. will things be open immediately for sure? >> reporter: it's hard to imagine that the sun won't come up tomorrow and the government won't reopen. with the congress doing this with warp speed they want the government to reopen.

we do expect that to happen tomorrow. >> i know a lot of house members go back to their districts, the next vote is tuesday. what happens in terms of actual negotiations so this doesn't just happen again? >> reporter: we are going to see something pretty rare tomorrow morning, anderson. we're going to seat republican budget chair in the house, paul ryan, democratic chair in the senate patty murray have breakfast and start talking. >> that's rare. >> reporter: that is what is supposed to happen. >> you would think it happens all the time. >> reporter: you would think. this kind of negotiation hasn't happened in years. >> in years. >> reporter: in years. you know why? because in past year and a half it's because republicans haven't wanted to get together. but before that, democrats didn't pass their own budget because they didn't want their democratic rank and file to be on record voting for increases in spending. so it goes both ways. >> fascinating stuff, dana bash. thank you very much. we'll continue to check on dana throughout this hour. once the bill passes the hour as we said president obama says he'll sign it immediately. the president spoke shortly after the deal passed the senate

thanking leaders of both parties for getting a deal done. listen. >> one of the things they said throughout this process is, we've got to get out of the habit of governing by crisis. and my hope and expectation is everybody has learned that there's no reason why we can't work on the issues at hand, why we can't disagree between the parties while still being agreeable, and make sure that we're not inflicting harm on the american people when we do have disagreements. >> senior white house correspondent brianna keilar joins me now. do we know, brianna, when he will sign it assuming it passes here? >> reporter: it really depends we're told, anderson, on when the bill makes its way to the white house. there's sort of a process it goes through on the hill. it has to be enrolled and it is physically brought here to the white house. the president is a bit of a night owl. we know he stays up frequently until about 1:00 a.m. he did say he would sign it immediately. if it is something that is

delayed i've also been told by white house officials it doesn't really matter if he signs it tonight or tomorrow morning. you heard jay carney say that really the borrowing authority expires after tomorrow night. midnight thursday going into friday. >> do you have a sense of the mood of the staff at the white house? how they're viewing events tonight? >> reporter: i think they're relieved that it's over. i think they definitely recognize thought was republicans who were the losers in all this. but i also think that there's been some frustration, anderson. they feel that this has been a bit of a waste of time. they want to kind of move on to other business. and really i think it's frustrating for them the fact that this whole really divisive fight just shows how difficult it really is for the president to move forward with his domestic agenda items. >> yeah. he's been talking about immigration, the idea that they're going to go -- something as divisive as immigration next that. seems unlikely, doesn't it? >> reporter: it really does seem

unlikely. i think what you're seeing is president obama saying hey i'm going to press ahead. either you're going to come with me receasonably or painfully if you don't go along with what i want to do. a lot of folks looking into the next year as the mid-term elections is an unlikely year for resolution on immigration reform. they think it's more likely to happen following the mid-term elections. they think maybe 2015 republicans begin to focus on a presidential election where they will take the lesson from 2012, they'll sort of take that as a lesson we need to move ahead on immigration reform. >> we're watching the vote there on the house floor. as the president was walking out of the briefing room you tossed him a question he actually answered. let's listen. >> mr. president, is this going to happen all over again in a few months? >> no. >> quite a succinct answer there from the president.

no, he says it won't happen again in a few months. are they that confident? >> reporter: they say they are confident. but the truth is, anderson, it really isn't up to them, is it? it's really up to house republicans and really how they handle themselves, whether tea party republicans object and whether house republican leaders go again in the direction the tea party republicans want them to go. the reasoning from the white house is this. they say it just doesn't make sense for republicans to go through this fight again. and they say if it's been damaging this time it's going to be even more damaging as they get closer to an election. and they say reasonably speaking, it just doesn't make sense. we'll have to see if that holds. >> it also depends on what happens in those negotiating rooms between republicans and democrats as well. brianna, appreciate it. just a few minutes ago i spoke to one congressman who's voting right now, republican steve king of iowa. he stopped to speak with me literally on his way to the chamber right before we went on air. listen to what he had to say. >> you plan to vote against this

tonight. >> yes. >> why? >> because first of all there's nothing in there for conservatives, nothing in there really for republicans. we have pitched this fight for a long time. actual lit strategy clear back as late as late june. and all the way to this point and now the final deal comes back and it's just got nothing in there that's worthy of the effort. and i would rather keep this thing going. now, i might consider extending the debt ceiling and keeping this government partial shutdown going so that we can get something on obama care. but to conflate the two and put it all on one late-night deal and then have it be the president's deal and harry reid's deal with nothing in there that restrains our spending and nothing in there that does anything to slow down the juggernaut of obama care. >> how would continuing the shutdown, though, give you any leverage on obama care? you don't have the votes to delay or defund obama care. >> if you hold out on this thing, and you can't be sending the message that you're not going to. that's the problem with the situation we're in right now. you could get some changes in obama care or you could get some kind of agreement that will make

some changes in obama care. but the american people have rejected it. now the two issues are conflated. and that's one of the things that i really wanted to avoid was sticking the two together. it's exactly what we have in the same bill. it's a worst case scenario from all this we've done over the last months come together here tonight. and nancy pelosi has apparently said she'll deliver 200 votes to get this to pass. >> you're confident it's going to pass? >> yes. and i want to live to fight another day and i don't want to sacrifice my principles. you don't have a lot of fight ground to fight on. >> do you believe something was accomplished by this? >> well, do i. but you have to look for it a little bit. one of those things is, i think we've identified 20 or 30 good strong conservatives in the house that will stand up and actually stand on principle and fight. there's probably more than that. but that's a good bunch that have emerged now on the national scene. that's true. ted cruz is stronger, mike lee

is stronger. the conservatives in the senate are strong. maybe one good thing that could come out of this is a shift in the dynamics so that perhaps republicans could win the majority in the senate coming up in the 2014 elections. that would make it all worth the fight. >> but it seems like you're the only person who thinks republicans are going to come out of this ahead. look at the polls now, it hasn't helped democrats but certainly has hurt republicans more, no? >> i've long said there's going to be this friction that's going to come during this period of time, and that public opinion will sort this out. if public opinion goes against us we'll see members that will peel off one after another. that's their perception whether it's real or not. the polls do say that it's real. so the public opinion polls have polled our members away from this. but once we get the other side of that, there may be a short-term political penalty. there may not. but in the long term, we can never recover from obama care. and when it becomes implemented, and we watch january 1 as people get their premium bills and find out their deductibles have gone up and they can't keep their

insurance company or doctor, then the politics of this thing starts to take on a whole new flavor. and that's what i think we need to look to if we're going to ever put an end to obama care. >> there are those who are critical of obviously your efforts and others who have said to their constituents we can defund, delay obama care and have raised money on that and continue to raise money on that. they say democrats even some republicans say it's a fraud, it's frankly dishonest. you've always known you haven't had the votes. what do you say to that? >> we've never really known that. and i wrote the legislation that would have cut off all the funding to implement or enforce obama care. i brought that to this congress just over your shoulder on the evening of february 14th, 2011. >> but there were not enough votes for that. >> well, we had the momentum then. we had the momentum from the 2010 wave election. the time to really do it was then. i got turned down by some of my own people at that time. and we didn't coalesce around that idea. this was still a good idea. it needed to be done. it was the last chance to get this done.

it really was the last tool in the tool box before obama care began the signup on october 1st. and so i understand that the people that weren't with me then when i thought all of them should be with me vigorously thought there'd be a presidential election that would bring about mitt romney that would get this repealed. they thought the supreme court would find it unconstitutional. all the other options have been used up, tools are out of the tool box down to this. i understand why it had to happen. i wasn't a strategy that i devised but one i said i will support and stand with you on this. we owe it to the american people to do everything we can to shut off obama care. thanks for your time. >> appreciate it, anderson. house vote on a deal to reopen the government and extend the debt ceiling is now finished. chief congressional correspondent dana bash. it's passed, yes? >> reporter: it is. the house speaker is walking right by us. he's going out there to talk to his colleagues.

just looking down as i'm talking to you 2:39- you. 239-111. the bill has passed the house and heading to the president's desk soon. i'm also looking on the screen how republicans have voted. so far it looks like now 66 yes votes in the republican caucus. which is pretty high, considering the fact that you definitely had about two dozen who were actively vocally saying no. you have four 70 yeses in the republican caucus. looks like the republicans are going to be pretty much split on this. but definitely a healthy majority voting so far. again this is still a big stally. 253 yeses. >> it's hard to believe it a way that it's almost over after how long this has been going on. from here it obviously goes to the white house, although there are some procedures to go through first. >> reporter: that's right.

it's just some technical procedures to go through before they have to -- it's called enrolling the bill then they have to send it over to the white house. you and i talked about that earlier in the hour. but you're right. it is pretty remarkable and pretty unbelievable that after every sort of tease that we had this was potentially going to be done with so many different potential deals and ways out of this. when i say this of course i mean not just the government shutdown but the deadline we were up against in an hour and 45 minutes for the u.s. to default. the fact that this is actually done is really hard to believe. but it definitely is going to take a lot of time to heal the wounds that are very raw right now here on capitol hill. and of course across the country. but especially raw among and dividing republicans right now. >> and in terms of negotiations, the timeline of that, they begin you said tomorrow. >> reporter: they do. and that is definitely a hopeful

sign. the fact that the senate budget chair, the democrat in the senate, patty murray, the house budget chair, a republican paul ryan, are going to sit down with other members of the negotiating teams to start talking about next year's budget really this year as budget when you talk about the fiscal year, is a good sign. it is the way congress is supposed to work. and it hasn't worked like that in a very long time, which is why we go from crisis to crisis. not so much on the debt ceiling but regard to the government opening and closing or threat of closing because congress doesn't get their basic function done, which is to fund the government. >> i want to bring in cnn political commentator and democratic strategist paul begala. we'll have our final here. also cnn contributor and republican consult nt alex castillanos and freedom work that urged lawmakers to vote against a deal. paul, it has now passed. what do you think? >> first, hallelujah.

and really this is not just a political thing. the first thing i did because i'm a political hack i looked at the republican versus democratic breakdown. 72 republicans voting yes. some processing that way. i have to remind myself i'm a human being, too. there are hundreds of thousands of people, civil servants who try to make up safer and cleaner and stronger and smarter who have been furloughed, millions of americans who have been suffering. thank god for that this thing is over. >> matt you're looking very closely also at the republicans who voted yes for this. what is your message for them tonight? >> first thing we're going to do is find out what's in this bill. i've already discovered a $2 billion earmark for mitch mcconnell's re-election campaign. sure that's just a start of that. >> kentucky kickbacks some are calling it. >> maybe that's true. they've also gutted the debt ceiling process. and the travesty is no one actually read this bill they just voted on. but i think for republicans this could well be t.a.r.p. 2.0. the next stimulus.

>> in what sense? >> in a sense that there'll be accountability. i think people want to know that their legislators are actually doing what they said they were going to do in their campaigns. are they fighting to defund obama care, are they willing to actually balance the budget? somebody has to be the skunk at the garden party here and say you know what? we can't just keep borrowing money and spending money that we don't have. >> when you talk about accountability you're talking about primary challenges for some republicans? >> and democrats as well by the way. this is going to be unpopular i would predict in red states where democrats are trying to win re-election in the senate. >> alex, what do you make of this long national nightmare as some democrats would probably call it? >> maybe a brief respite for sanity has returned to washington a little bit. it's been a good evening finally. we haven't had one here for a long time. i think one reason nobody knows what's in the bill a lot of people clogged up the process and waited until this last minute this. airplane pulled up right before it hit the mountain.

we were risking the good faith and credit of the united states. i have to say it was good to see president obama on tv tonight reassuring global markets that there's still a government that functions. but i think there's a lesson here not just for republicans but for democrats, too. and that is the old way of doing things in washington has to change. that good people on both sides here knew this was a crisis, knew this was a critical moment, and even with the best of intentions they couldn't get together. what does that tell us? we've got to find a better way, a new way of doing things. i think next election the theme is going to be change washington. the party the status quo is going to lose, the party that offers change is going to win. >> what does that change look like? what does that change mean? obviously for matt that change is very different than paul what you would prescribe. >> right. i let matt speak for him. but i think a lot of conservatives want to talk about the debt and deficit. it makes democrats like me crazy since we balanced the budget. but that's their biggest issue.

what's being unaddressed what is the american people think is the biggest issue, the shrinking middle class, jobs, economic growth. some people think that comes from cutting debt, other people think it comes from having a better educational system, strong health care system, the kinds of things democrats want to do. if we could ever get back to discussion, robert shuller just won the nobel prize in economics this week. brilliant man. he says the biggest problem we have is inequality, shrinking middle class. i think that's what the next election will be about not just a dry debate about deficits. >> i think republicans are going to have a very different view. that is how do we address these problems? the old way top down politically and artificially from washington by growing washington's economy and not ours or do we try something fresh? do we try to grow economy bottom up, naturally and organically by putting money and power in the hands of the american people. look at the things that are working in the world today. it's an e-bay ford, facebook world, bottom up world.

it's not a top down world anymore. big dumb slow things like this federal government? it doesn't govern education, doesn't govern health care. everything it touches seems to fame. but things are working in the states. >> but matt, when you look at this, we talked about this in the 8:00 hour, you believe something was accomplished in all this from your perspective. >> oh, yeah. we're demonstrating that there are actually some people in washington, d.c. washington not very popular in this town but willing to say you know what, we can keep doing the things the way we used to do it. i do think there's a direct relationship between this unchecked growth in government, thisnchecked growth in borrowing, and the inability of american workers and american businessmen to get back to work. it's a direct relationship. there's too much washington, there's not enough people getting opportunities. and the income gap between the rich and the poor has grown under barack obama. and i think we all need to acknowledge that and talk about what the source of that problem is. >> paul, i got to give you the final thought.

>> the deficit was created -- was not a typhoon. it was man made and it was made by tax cuts, mostly benefitting the rich, declaring war in iraq and putting on a national credit card, passing up an entitlement for senior citizens on prescription drugs that they did not pay for and then the recession. those four things caused it, not head start for children or better education or health care. >> still bushes fault? >> absolutely and while we're paying it off the next 50 years. >> i appreciate our panel. i want to bring in dana bash to give me more details on the vote. >> reporter: the vote is final. the final number is 285-144. as we said earlier, it passed. but the thing that we were watching for the last bit of political drama that was left was to see how the republican caucus voted here and whether or not john boehner would get a majority of a majority to be united as he told his caucus in private, we understand earlier today. he did not. it didn't even come close to that. this was passed with the help of

i believe at the end of the day all democrats. we have to check that just to make sure that nobody switched their votes in the end. but all democrats were united which is pretty rare when you're talking about 200 people. but they were united in doing this. and it just kind of shows you when we were going through the past two weeks when the house republicans had so many different versions and options of how to fund the government, all of which were dealing with defunding or delaying obama care, democrats and republicans, some republicans, in the later weeks, said let's just put a clean bill on the floor. john boehner didn't want to do it because he wanted to stay true to the conservatives in his caucus. he didn't want to have a majority of democrats approving a bill. well, that's exactly what just happened. so he resisted for so long doing what exactly ended up happening at the end of the day. >> and dana, do you expect john boehner, other republicans, to be speaking tonight? was john boehner expected to

make comments? >> reporter: no. i would be shocked if john boehner was going to make any comment. they've got nothing to say right now that would benefit i don't think them politically externally or internally. i think they're going to let things sit an sort of calm down. i'm told that he specifically said to his members in this private meeting today, we're going to go home. the house is going home after this. >> we're looking at pictures right now of house members leaving, getting into their vehicles which are parked right outside there. >> reporter: exactly. they're walking down the steps, leaving and going home. and republican leadership source said to me just about an hour ago in the hallway, we need our members to go home. we need them to go home and talk to real people. it always helps when they go home and talk to real people. sounds really basic and fundamental but it really is a necessary thing for them to get out of the echo chamber, not just of washington and all the process here or the politics, but also of the way that the

party in particular, the republican party, has been so split. leadership really wants them to get out of here, take a breath, get some rest which is a quote i'm told that john boehner said to his rank and file and they'll come back and try to go forward with the next fight. >> for some of these house members, though, they go home and into districts where obama care is hugely unpopular. there's a lot of concern about it. >> reporter: absolutely. there is no question about it. part of the frustration i know you've heard this from people you've interviewed as well is that republican doss think that they have proof in the pudding of obama care not necessarily being what the president said it was going to be. obviously it's only been two weeks. but one of the biggest frustrations of republicans here is that they buried their own story. that there have been problems with obama care and that has not risen to the level of consciousness in the news media and elsewhere as it should have.

they would have preferred. because everybody is talking about the shutdown, whether the u.s. is going to default. so republicans think that they stepped on their own message, and they're very frustrated by it. >> and a lot of we see a lot of members of congress right now driving away. cars are driving off. it's almost over. hard to believe. dana, we're going to continue to check in with you throughout this hour. a lot more ahead to be watched. we're going to take a quick break. as we said the house has now approved this measure. obviously goes to the white house after some procedural issues are sorted out. the president has said he will sign it immediately. exactly what time that means we are unclear on that. but more than likely the government will be open tomorrow. let us know what you think. you can follow me on twitter @andersoncooper. tweet me #ac360 later. we'll have more about this bill and what happens next when we come back. [ coughs, sneezes ]

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for one-to-one support and education. welcome back. breaking news the house has approved a deal to end the government shutdown and avoid a

debt default. vote 285-144. that's after the senate approved it. senator ted cruz blasted the deal before the the vote. he took a swipe at fellow senate republicans saying they buckled and failed to support house republicans. plenty of gop colleagues are pointing fingers right back at cruz. >> i intend to stand against obama care as long as i'm able to stand. >> we cannot only controlling one house of congress tell the president that we're not going to fund any portion of this. >> ted cruz is a fraud. >> it is because of you that the house of representatives has been standing strong. >> i just disagreed with the strategy. >> it's led us into the political abyss. >> the party allowed itself to be hijacked by this guy. >> this fight, this debate will continue. >> this really poorly thought out tactic led by senator cruz. >> obviously it's very divisive our party. >> this was probably not a wise zbloouf in a strongly-worded editorial today "the houston

chronicle" criticized cruz and senator kay bailey hutchison saying if she kept her seat ted cruz would not be in congress. joining me, senator john tester of montana. what do you make of what the american people have witnessed through today and over the last several weeks? >> what we've seen is america speaking up and saying this is craziness that's going on in the house of representatives. we are playing with too much fire here. you're putting a drag on the economy, trying to sink the economy. and knock it off. and i think what we saw tonight in the senate and the house was the fact that the people stood up. business folks, working families, and said, enough is enough. grow up and do what we sent you throw thereto do. >> a lot of republicans believe the democrats played a role in this, the president played a role in this in not being willing to come together and talk. >> i think if you look at the initial negotiations that went on, coming off of what the

deficit reduction is a huge step. the bottom line is we do need to get the deficit and debt under control. but you don't sink the economy as a way to do that. you sit down and work across the line in a bipartisan way. there's lots of folks in the senate that are willing to do that. but you don't do it by threatening the whole economy of the country. >> is there any sense? do you guys have confidence this isn't just going to happen again? >> no, i don't. i heard dana say they're all going to meet for breakfast tomorrow? well, great. okay. that's really a start. but i think -- and you hear the president saying he wants these budget negotiations to work. look. i think congress is a crisis activated institution. and they only do things excuse me, senator, when it's in their own self-interests. so if they believe that it's in their own self-interests and the public reacts as you say they're going to react which is by saying just get it done. we want a deal. we want to fix this problem then they'll do it. if they don't feel the pressure

and the tea party people feel embold and by this by their own party then not much is going to happen. >> steve king says this has helped to identify -- congressman king said this has helped to identify who's an upstanding member of the house and it's been a good thing in that way. >> people have very different views inside the house about who was upstanding in the end. about the only way i think this breakfast could help tomorrow is if it were a prayer breakfast. because they need to get out of this mindset of, this poisonous psychology. i think there's plenty of blame to go around but there's no question that most of the blame is being directed at the tea party and what happened in the house of representatives. and what you find now is this split. it's deepening within the republican party. a pew poll found today if you talk to moderates and liberals in the democratic party, if you can find any liberals, their favorability rating for ted cruz, senator cruz is 27%. republican party. republican moderates and

liberals, 27% favorability toward ted cruz. among tea party types it's 75%. there is that gigantic gap. and there's no question i think that the tea party folks feel people didn't fight hard enough on the republican side. moderates didn't fight hard enough. >> the tea partiers are saying we were abandoned by other members of the republican party. that's the reason this didn't go forward. had we stood together -- >> had they stuck together they would have sunk the economy. that's the alternative here. i mean, the truth is thank god there's some republicans that have some common sense that came to the table so we could get this done. look. what they were fighting for would have destroyed this country. would have put up into a bigger depression than by far than what happened with lehmam four years ago. >> where does the obama care issue come into this? democrats are continues to have trouble defending it if it continues to have the problems in your state there are issues with it. >> sure there's issues with it. we need to work to solve those

issues. to say we're going to throw it out, that doesn't solve anything. the old system was broken badly. and so we've got to figure out ways to make the health care system work without breaking the bank. and there's so much misinformation out there on it right now i can't wait to get it implemented so we can start working on the real problems. >> you're seen as a moderate centrist democrat. there is a feeling in this town tonight that a lot of democrats who are more liberal than you are actually feel energized by what happened, that they now have the upper hand and are going to be less likely to compromise in the talks ahead that, they're going to hang tough on entitlements and other issues. >> i certainly don't have that impression. i think there's a real willingness to work together to try to fix the problems this country faces. we've got a lot of problems. we've got a housing finance reform bill right now bipartisan in nature that we need to get across the finish line. if we can start doing some of these things -- >> you don't believe that there are some liberal democrats who are feeling emboldened, feeling like we won this thing now we use it to our advantage? >> i certainly haven't got than impression at all.

not at all. >> reporter: well, i think there are some maybe in the house more than in the senate. but i think they definitely feel okay, we won this and we're going to forge ahead. and if the tea party remains unpopular, the republican party splits, then we can do what we want to do. >> you know what i like to look at instead of looking at the tea party let's look at the policy they were advocating. and those folks that were advocating not to extend the debt limit and put this economy into a depression are people that quite frankly we need to fight against, both parties. that's not good policy. >> we got to leave it there. senator john tester, it's been a long way for you. appreciate you joining us. the government is going to reopen, the treasury won't default on the obligations. in a few months this same thing will happen again. we'll be right back. with someon.

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tonight congress slammed on the brakes in the 11th hour to veer away from the fiscal cliff. but the deal they've reached is a short-term fix as you know. that huge crashing sound many people hear is a giant can being kicked down the road. >> this deal kicks the can down the road. >> we are kicking the can. but better to kick the can than to stomp on the can. >> at the same time, we can't keep kicking the dcan down the road. >> kick the can down the road.

>> the problem is we continue to kick it down the road. >> it's hard not to be cynical went we've seen the can kicked down the road so many times. >> we will continue to kick this can down the road with real harmful effects for the american populace. >> the bill the president expects to sign reopens the government until january 15th, extends the debt ceiling to february 15th. snorks how concerning is that to you? what needs to happen now? >> well, the only thing that's really been accomplished they have a conference committee to try to be able to come up with a budget to determine funding levels for fiscal '14 and hopefully beyond. what has to happen is we have to agree on a fiscal goal. we need to get our public debt as percentage of the economy down to about 60% by 2030 and be on a path to keep it there. to do that, you have to be able to reform social insurance

programs, rationalize health care promises and better control costs and do comprehensive tax reform. those are the three things that it takes. and hopefully this committee will be able to get some progress in that area. you got to keep in mind, anderson, our public debt is up 90% since president obama was inaugurated. 90%. and president bush 43 and obama have set very poor records on fiscal responsibility. we got to turn that around. >> so how confident are you that those things can actually be worked on? none of those are easy even in the best of times. these are certainly not the best of times. >> in my view, if we listen to the american people, we can solve this problem. and if the president shows more leadership. i've been to all 50 states. i this past fall went around to 27 states, got 92% agreement on six principles for a grand bargain. 85% agree it's going to be at

least two to one spending reductions to additional revenues. and at least 77 to 90% agreement on social security and medicare medicaid health care defense tax and other reforms. if you listen to the american people, you can solve this problem. if washington continues to be polarized, have this ideological divide and live in a cocoon rather than the real world we're going to continue to have problems. >> you say we need to replace the debt ceiling all together. why? >> well, because we're the only country on earth that has a debt ceiling denominated in nominal dollars. we know by definition we're going to hit it. we just don't know how fast we're going to hit it but we know we're going to hit it. we need to impose statutory budget controls to constrain spending both tax expenditures and direct. we need a credit card limit. a constitutional credit card limit as to how much debt as percentage of the economy we can take on. you can only violate through a declaration of war or a super majority vote in the house and senate signed by the president. that will force the three issues that i talked about on the

table. because we are on a path to go over any reasonable limit of debt to gdp after the ten-year horizon. and you got to start dealing with it sooner rather than ator. >> and standard & poors today said the shutdown has cost the u.s. economy $24 billion which is a pretty startling number. you say that's insignificant when you look at the economy as a whole. >> well, it's a big number to most americans obviously. but we're a $17 trillion economy. a $17 trillion dli economy. what we need to do is to provide more certainty and stability with regard to our tax policies, with regard to our spending practices. we can make these changes and phase them in over time and candidly, anderson, we need to be investing more in critical infrastructure and research and development and less on consumption and less on programs that frankly just don't work. we've got a lot of programs that don't work, both direct spending and tax expenditures. and it's time to start separating the wheat from the

chaff there. >> david walker, always good to have you on. we're back with two of our political commentators, democratic political strategist and republican -- >> i'm a professional word smith. i come up with euphemisms like this for politicians all the time. talk about rationalizing and reforming. here's what he's proposing. raising taxes and cutting spending mostly on things like social security and medicare. a lot of experts say he's right and he is an expert. but at some point we have to strip away the euphemisms and tell the american people okay what we are talking about here is raising taxes and cutting social security and medicare. try selling that in this building with the white dome behind us. there's a lot of other people who think the best way to bring all this down is to put americans back to work and that's when the deficit will come down better than just cutting social security. >> there was a new idea there, something different than what washington's doing now. families, businesses. how do they make decisions and stay within a budget?

they decide how much they have to spend first. if paul rye ryan and his democratic counterpart can set up a goal, then priorities compete. we have to make a car payment. we can't buy another plasma tv. but we don't have those. >> let me jump in here. last night on this program for our viewers, something happened that was one of the most bizarre episodes that has ever occurred on a program that i've been associated with. i just want to play that for our viewers in case you missed it. >> a friend explained to me today finally what ted cruz is doing. i finally understand. he's having bunny sex. >> are you high? what are you talking about? >> i'm high. let me explain. the snow shoe hare -- i thought it's a marvelous explanation. every ten years multen years mi

six fold. they invite predators. right now ted cruz what he's doing feels good, he's growing his supporters. it's leading the republican party i think into a bust. >> so we actually because alex mentioned bunny sex and seems to be knowledgeable about it. we actually tonight brought a bunny here for alex. we want you to meet lucy. >> hey. >> do you want to hold her? this is lucy. she's three years old. she's up for adoption at the washington humane society. >> i'm in. >> you're in? >> but no demonstrations tonight. that's all i ask, please. >> so i was -- >> you going to ask where she came from? >> let's talk later. >> the birds, the bees, the bunnies, we'll have a talk. >> i'm not even going to let you try to explain what you were saying last night. but people can actually adopt lucy >> yes. >> if somebody wanted to adopt a bunny how would they go about it? >> they would go to the washington humane society. we are online at washhumane.org. >> do bunnies make good pets?

>> they make great pets. she's really calm and likes to be cuddled. >> do they actually mess around a lot? >> they play. >> they play? >> they're a little more reserved than your cat or dog. >> did you hear what alex said last night? did it make any sense to you? all day long i've been trying to figure it out. >> that's between me and lucy. >> listen, thanks so much for bringing lucy to us. what's the web site again? >> washhumane.org. >> let that be a lesson to us all. alex and paul, thanks. president obama confesses he's not happy with the web site for obama care. the administration said it would release some metrics but it's breaking that promise. investigative correspondent drew griffin is digging into the mess. he joins me next. you make a great team.

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welcome back. tonight's breaking news the house approved the deal to end the government shutdown, avoid a debt default. the vote 285-144. it passed the senate earlier tonight 81-18. the president said he will sign it immediately even though it looks like this is a done deal. not exactly a banner moment for lawmakers in our nation's capitol. senator john mccain has been very vocal about his disdain for what's been happening in washington the past 16 days. i spoke with senator mccain earlier this evening.

>> john boehner said we fought the good fight. was this a good fight? >> no. i think it was the wrong fight. i think maybe if custer had survived he would have said the same thing. it was the wrong ground. it was the wrong premise. it was the wrong fight to have. i fought against obama care and continue to because i don't believe it's good for america. but after the 2012 elections, it was clear that the american people were in agreement about obama care. it was the law. and so to sell to the american people that we could defund obama care when you control only one of the three branches executive and legislative is a fool's errand. >> you described this as a shameful chapter? is that correct? >> oh, i think it was a shameful chapter that what we did to the american people. i mean, we put people out of work. we disrupted their lives. there's a small town outside of

the grand canyon. i just met with the mayor. and because the grand canyon was shut down, it had a horrendous effect. they had to even fly food up there from the food banks because all these people and their families were out of work. is that what we want to do to the american people? of course not. we should fight and we should use the parliamentary procedures, but in order -- but to do something like this was just not acceptable to most americans. and the polls show that. by the way, the president should have been much more involved. >> you do fault the democrats for it. you say they have not negotiated. they haven't been as engaged as they should have. >> especially the president should have shown more leadership. >> what does that mean? what should he have done in your opinion? >> what bill clinton did in '95. that's have almost round the clock meet wgz these people and try to find some common ground. the polls don't show that in any way this was anything but a huge setback for republicans. >> what did you say to ted cruz

today? >> i said to him, well, i hope that we can move on now. i hope that we can move on to other things. because what we've done has been so harmful. not just to republicans. the president's numbers went down, the democrats numbers went down. ours just went down further and faster. the american people have no confidence in their government. and can you blame them? >> senator mccain, appreciate your time. >> thank you. president obama's signature piece of legislation, the affordable care act, remains intact tonight to some extent though the battle of capitol hill has overshadowed the major problems at healthcare.gov the web site has been having where people sign up for health care exchanges under obama care launched 16 days ago. even obama care supporters call it a mess. the white house said it would release some metrics yesterday but they didn't. officials say they won't release any numbers until november. cnn investigative correspondent drew griffin joins me now. first the white house is telling us they didn't know how many people had joined up. >> reporter: that's right. >> it seems clear they know

they're not releasing. >> reporter: they absolutely know. the white house for some reason or another doesn't want us to know the actual numbers of people who have signed up for the affordable care act are. jay car carney was asked directly that question today and gave a very indirect answer, talking about volume of calls and visits to the web site and traffic is up. but he would not answer specifically the number of people who have signed up for obama care. let me tell you how silly that is, okay? healthcare.gov is what we're talking about. but 14 other states and the district of columbia have their own exchanges. we've been calling those exchanges every single day. and at the end of every single day they have given us the exact tally of who didn't have insurance and who now has insurance under the affordable care act. the number of people in 14 states and the district of columbia is 39,005. that seems low to us. chris freights my colleague called around to executives.

it's low to them. there's concern this is not catching on. >> the administration was saying it was a question of overwhelming volume. but the problems seem to go a lot deeper than that. in the way these things were actually structured. >> there was glitches, right? and we know about those glitches from elizabeth cohen's own reporting. but it seems like right now, two weeks into it, people are looking at what's happening, they're seeing the prices, and they're notigning up in the volume that at least this administration thought they were. maybe the way going to try to hide that or hold that is to keep the numbers up until they try to get more people on. >> supporters say often with these kind of exchanges, people visit multiple times before actually making a decision. remains to be seen if that's the case in this one. >> let's see the numbers, right? >> drew griffin, appreciate the reporting that. does it for this edition of "ac 360 later." jake tapper continues our live breaking news coverage next. [ beep ]

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