>> it may not be. >> it doesn't benefit the united states of america. >> i have to leave it there. fascinating debate. thank you very much, star jones and e.d. hill. that's it for us tonight. "ac 360 later" starts with anderson cooper right now. welcome to "ac 360 later." we are live tonight in washington, d.c. where there is no longer a shutdown showdown. more like a post shutdown hangover. we wanted to be here again tonight after congress passed the deal that the president signed late last night to reopen the government and extend the debt ceiling. we're here to ask what on earth just happened and what comes next? today the president praised democrats and quote responsible republicans for getting the job done, but he also called it a self-inflicted crisis with major ramifications for the country economically and otherwise. he said he's well aware the american public has had it with this type of political theater. >> we know that just the threat of default, of america not paying all the bills we owe on time increased our borrowing costs, which adds to our deficit.

and of course, we know that the american people's frustration with what goes on in this town has never been higher. that's not a surprise. that the american people are completely fed up with washington. >> chief congressional correspondent dana bash has been following all the twist and turns and joins us now. what comes next? >> reporter: what comes next is everybody hoping and praying that this doesn't happen again. except maybe if you're ted cruz who said through a source close to him to me tonight that he is not giving up on the idea of perhaps this happening all again and forcing this to happen again, at least trying to. >> mitch mcconnell has said it's off the table. we won't do another shut. >> reporter: oh, yeah. he's definitely learned his lesson as did most republicans around here. there really has been a lot of wound licking, a lot of reflection. and what's been interesting is that the republicans, even those

who thought this might have been a good strategy from the beginning, are saying, i mean, some have said that they let john boehner down the house speaker and that they maybe didn't understand the consequences of not playing out the strategy from a to z at the beginning, meaning z was still that half of that building is still controlled by democrats and the white house is still controlled by democrats. and the republican leaders both mitch mcconnell and john boehner knew they were going to get the blame. they understood that. but they felt they didn't have a choice because we've talked about it so many nights that row now about pressure. and it really is real real pressure on them from conservatives. but the question is going to be whether or not the people who some of them call themselves the sane caucus inside the house republican world, whether or not they are going to be more aggressive. part of the issue they do have a majority but it's a silent majority so far and whether they're going to be more vocal about wanting to work with democrats. because many of them really do. >> although the message from

some of the tea party supporters and tea party-backed candidates the mistake was not being tough enough. the mistake was that some republicans were wishy washy and didn't stand with us. we weren't united. >> absolutely. that is going to continue to be that message. there's a reason for that. there is a reason constituency out there for that kind of idea, the idea that you have to come here and stick to principle. and the reason why the debt is so high, the deficit is ballooned to astronomical numbers is because people came here and became part of the establishment and they didn't stick to their principles. so that's always going to exist. the question is going to be whether or not people who maybe have come here have been here for what 2 1/2 years since the class of 2010, the tea party wave came, in get more comfortable as legislators as maybe realize that throwing bombs is okay sometimes, but it's also if you want to get things done sometimes you have to as one congressman said to me, go a couple of downs and not just throw night end zone.

>> the thing is, ted cruz continues on. as you said, he says i'm not taking a shutdown off the table. >> reporter: anderson, i have heard so many stories about him inside meetings with fellow republicans as the saga has gone on. they have been really aggressive, almost yelling at him saying, why are you doing this to us? we're going to lose seats. we're not going to take back the majority in the senate which obviously is their goal if they want to achieve his goal which is to try to defund obama care. and he's like teflon. he doesn't seem to mind. and in fact, he's emboldened by the anger that he's feeling here by his fellow senators because what he's hearing from the constituency that elected him is atta boy. >> interesting. dana bash, appreciate it. thanks very much. senior white house correspondent brianna keilar joins us now. brianna, the president making a point saying there are no winners here. behind the scenes does the white house feel this is a victory for them? >> reporter: i think certainly white house officials feel like

the strategy this time around worked much better than 2011. the president back then negotiated in earnest. this time with house republicans. this time he really sidelined them and ultimately at least in the polls he fared better. so i think part of the message you were hearing from him today is this kind of hardball strategy is here to stay. of course there's this question of does that tone really mean that there's going to be bipartisanship here? i think white house officials feel like they're external factors at play. some republicans may be tempted to try the strategy again. you heard dana talk about ted cruz. but i think they're banking on some of the other republicans concerned about the national brand for republicans and certainly the toll that that may take with independent voters. >> and in terms of the president's agenda, i mean, he's called today for immigration reform. do they really think they can get something like that done? >> reporter: not just immigration reform, a farm bill and also a budget deal. things that have certainly eluded the white house as far as a bipartisan deal at this point.

i think the white house officials admit that this budget crisis and before it the syria situation certainly got in the way here. but you heard the president outline his agenda. and he is insisting that he's going to press through with it. you talk to white house officials, and they certainly admit that it's tough right now going into the next year, the mid-term elections. you have republicans who are going to want to be careful because they're afraid they'll be prime rid from the right. i think they definitely see 2015 as perhaps less headwinds because they think the republicans will try to moderate going into the presidential election. but what's clear, what i picked up from listening to president obama today, is that no matter he's pressing ahead. and he's going to be no matter what trying to drag republicans kicking and screaming if that's what it takes. >> brianna keilar appreciate the reporting. a question that's been asked a lot during the negotiation, what's up with the republican party? is the gop being commandeered by the tea party.

>> andrew, to put it mildly you find all this demonization which is your word of government troubling. >> yes. because conservatives have to have government. everybody needs government. i think what the tea party has done in a way that's positive is bring up the issue of long-term debt. and we do have to fix that. at the same time they show they're incapable of grappling with it. because they didn't succeed in reducing the deficit or debt, in fact they increased the debt. if they're really going to tackle the debt in the long term they've got to get an agreement with democrats who are also part of this country. and they want some tax increases in return for entitlement reforms. that's the key bargain. we've all known about for a long time. and my fear is the republicans have not come out of this thinking you know we really do have to just get this past us, get a big bargain on the debt, even if that means raising some revenues which you don't have to do with increasing rates because you can do tax reform and get

reductions in loopholes an raise revenues that way. i am not hearing from the republican right any sense of chastening after this event, and any sense that they're serious about tackling the long-term debt with the democrats. >> but i mean on your web site you've been very tough. i mean, sort of implying that the tea party or the far right is trying to sabotage our democracy in a way. >> well, yes. because i think the key thing there was not the goal of the debt but the strategy. you do not threaten to throw the entire global economy into a second great depression. you do not threaten the credit of the united states as a political tactic. they used such an extreme tactic that it was blackmail, a form of economic terrorism. i think the middle of the country, whatever you think about the debt, the middle of the country really thinks that kind of tactic was completely out of bounds and needs to be restrained. i think a lot of republicans believe that, too. but they're too scared to take on these radicals. >> ralph, i imagine you do not

believe this. >> well, look. anderson, i'm a veteran of the '95-'96 shutdown. i was a member of then speaker newt gingrich's advisory group. i was in the room when the shutdown occurred. for those of us who went through that, this was not our first choice. it wasn't my favorite tactic. but it's been 17 years, 75% of these house members on the republican side of the aisle have been elected in 2010 and 2012. and they felt very deeply and strongly that obama care posed both a short-term and a long-term threat, not only to america's health care system but to our economy. i applaud them for taking the stand they did. but the reality is that as we first found in '95-'96, they have discovered themselves that you can't govern the country at just one end of pennsylvania avenue. if you have a recalcitrant

president which in this case said he wouldn't negotiate with you, said he wouldn't sit down and cut a deal, it's very hard to get a deal done. and i applaud them for taking the stands that they did on the merits of the issues. and the irony of this, anderson, if you look at the things that they advocated, for example delaying the individual mandate for a year just as the mandate on employers was delayed, that's supported by two-thirds of the american people. if you look at the train wreck which is this obama care web site, this health care plan is not ready for primetime. and if you looked at the spectacle of the secretary of health and human services, kathleen sibelius, on "the daily show" unable to answer a direct question of why employers were being treated one way and individuals were being fined for not signing up when the web site won't allow them to sign up.

so this is past us now. we'll continue to fight on the merits. but i'd be surprised if there's another shutdown. >> andrew, what about the problems with obama care? certainly the web site. i mean, it's hard to defend the rollout of this. >> it's indefensible. and ralph and i can agree on that, i think. but that means that this tactic, this attempt to destroy the american economy, the threatening of actually throwing millions out of work, threatening the credit of the united states, threatening the global economy, threatening our position in the world, was a disastrous gambit because in fact if they had just done the normal things, the regular things, made their arguments through the normal constitutional processes and not attacked our very system of government they would have succeeded enormously this month. because obama sat there with this obama care thing that's been a disaster. but they didn't do that. and ralph cannot applaud what

they did while simultaneously condemning the result of it. you've got to admit, these people are fanatical. they need to be restrained. and someone in the republican party has to talk reason into them. and if it isn't ralph, if he's going to applaud them, who is going to stand up against them? >> ralph? >> well, i think the problem with that analysis, andrew, is that the legislative system itself is broken. the united states senate has not produced a budget in three years. and we've got a situation where the house has passed varying measures to deal with obama care that even if you don't take the position that i do, which is that it should be repealed and left on the ash heap of history, and i think we will ultimately be vindicated in that position by the way. but even if you're not in that camp, even if you're in a mend it don't end it camp, there were numerous attempts by the house to send that over and reid simply stripped that stuff out. harry reid the majority leader would not allow it to come to a vote. and the result is that we're governing in a dysfunctional way

because the house can't pass a piece of legislation and have it taken up in the other chamber. and look, i would just say this. divided government is an ugly thing to look at. but i will tell you this. i will take a divided system of government of constitutional checks and balances over what's going on in egypt, in syria and venezuela and cuba any day of the week. >> that's exactly what the republicans threatened. they threatened -- >> no, it isn't. >> they threatened to throw this entire country into default if they didn't get their way all the way. on the debt they have never offered anything to the democrats on raising taxes and getting revenues. whereas the democrats and obama have said they are willing to cut entitlements. but the republicans are being the intransigent one on taxes. we have to -- if there are two parties you want a deal, you've got to have some input from both.

and the republicans right now are the absolutists one saying absolutely no new revenues ever. now do what we want. how can the system work when one of the parties is that purist, that abc absolutist, that refusing to negotiate? >> the problem is when you talk about something like tax reform, and if i heard you correctly you indicated that you could sign onto something in which rates were not raised but revenue was increased. >> absolutely. >> i think republicans and conservatives would take the position that we're all for generating additional revenue through growth, but the truth is when you talk about actually producing the revenue -- i'm not talking about nickels and dimes -- we're talking about $50 trillion in unfunded entitlement obligations between now and 2050. you're talking really ultimately about either closing the depreciation allowance for business to invest in their

businesses or you're talking about eliminating the deduction for mortgage interest or you're talking about eliminating the deduction for charitable contributions. >> let's talk about that. >> as a matter of policy, as a matter of policy not ideology, i think all three of those are very bad ideas. and we have already sent a letter to the hill during the fiscal -- my organization faith and freedom coalition during the fiscal cliff negotiations saying that we strongly oppose any limit on the charitable contributions. >> we've got to wrap it up. i'm sorry. out of time. andrew we'll continue this discussion. ralph reed as well. we have more on whether the gop brand is damaged ahead. also was ted cruz bruised in the process as well? we'll hear of some of ted cruz's greatest hits during this crisis as if he had no part in actually causing it.

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he won the last year, less than a year ago. mitt romney said he would repeal the health care plan. the president defended obamacare. he thinks that verdict should stand today. house republicans have a different view and here is one of the reasons why. they live and go home to red america. look at all of this. mitt romney one more house districts and he won more counties in america as the president ran up big margins in the cities.

they think they are on safe ground including light comes to the health clinic and. all of this started when 80 house republicans wrote this speaker a letter saying we will not vote to keep the government open unless that legislation strips all of the money. 80 of them signed that letter. despite all the pressure, despite all the polling, when the final vote came last night on the compromise, 71 of them stood their ground voting no because the compromise did not strip any money from obama care. only 9 yes votes on the compromise there. another way to look at it if you're looking forward, if you're serving the congress and you're a republican, and you're thinking about running for president, well, the safe vote was no. senators ted cruz, rand paul, marco rubio and the house budget committee chairman paul ryan, the vice president candidate last time all voting no even though the senate and house leadership said this was a good deal. they didn't think so. another way to look at it you might say, all politics is local. there are 232 house republicans, remarkably only 17 of 232 go home to districts the president

won last year. meaning a republican house member but president obama carried the district. those 17 deciding the safe vote, 15 of them decided the safe vote was to vote yes to support the deal. their districts not as conservative as many of their colleagues. one last way to look at this as we goo go forward. the tea party says if you voted for this deal you violated conservative principles. they promise to punish those who voted yes. well, among those who voted yes, the man who helped broker the deal, the senate republican leader mitch mcconnell. one of his key deputies, lamar alexander of tennessee and lindsey graham of south carolina. three republican senators who voted yes who have tea party challengers as they seek re-election next year. three big races to watch as we see if the tea party can follow through now on threats to punish those who voted yes. anderson? >> fascinating to see the maps like that. as we've been reporting, senator ted cruz says he is not ruling out another shutdown. the texas republican is taking a big share of the blame or the

credit for what has happened in washington for the past several weeks. he led the republican effort to inject the defunding of obama care into the budget battle. one of the more interesting things to watch has been how senator cruz has talked about the shutdown as if he had nothing to do with it. listen. >> i don't think we should have a government shutdown. >> why is the federal government spending money to erect barricades to keep veterans out of this memorial? >> harry reid and president obama want a shutdown. >> why did the federal government spend money to erect barricade to keep people out of mt. rushmore? >> i don't think we should be in a shutdown. throughout the course of it i have said we should not shut down the government. >> our veterans should be above politics. enough games! >> enough games, he says. another common refrain by the senator is that he's only been doing what his constituents in texas really want. a little bit ago i went to the source and talked to two texans about it, former house majority leader tom delay and columnist mark mckinnon cofounder of no labels. and senior advisor to george

bush. >> senator, from your standpoint what did ted cruz actually accomplish? >> what he accomplished was bringing together people from all over the united states, and he led and showed his leadership and organizing all those people is a huge accomplishment, particularly since the conservatives have been crying out for leadership for many, many years, and he filled that void. >> but i mean, he signed up some -- a lot of people. critics of his will say, well look, that's potential fundraising pool for him so they understand what he got out of that. but led them to where? what actually came out of all of this? >> well, don't be so cynical. there's a movement out here in the real world, anderson. people are desperate to stop this runaway federal spending.

they're desperate to get rid of obama care. they're desperate for solutions to the country's problems. and he has provided all of that for the american people. unfortunately, because of the fight, the american people are taking it in the shorts. >> mark, you're from texas as well. is that how you see it? did ted cruz accomplish something? >> i disagree with almost everything. i think the only thing he accomplished was gaining more supporters and fundraising for himself. but did absolutely nothing for the country and did a lot of harm for the republican party. i think he's basically burned down the reputation of the republican party and standing on the ashes to stand a little taller for himself personally. >> i guess, mark, your answer to and your strategy would be to surrender first. give me your plan. how would you have done it in any other way and still make your point and try to bring the president to the table? >> i think surrender first, i

think it's surrender, congressman, when you go into a fight knowing that you're going to lose the battle. we knew ahead of time we were going to lose a battle. >> oh, now. [ overlapping speakers ] >> congressman, you asked mark for his plan so let mark say his plan. >> okay. give me your plan. >> the plan would be to argue on the merits of what paul ryan was suggesting. we could have talked about mean testing medicare, change cbi and entitle cuts and talk about budget issues which is what republicans are supposed to be talking about. instead we fought about obama care when that's been decided and has 54 solid votes in the senate. that's surrender, congressman. >> are you kidding? boy, your surrender. that's really going to get obama's attention. that's going to get harry reid's attention and force them to the table. >> those are things they've already agreed, to congressman. >> i'm just very glad that the revolutionaries in 1776 didn't take up your plan. because if they thought they were going to lose and therefore

not get into the battle, then we wouldn't be here today. that is a loser's plan. >> so you say shut down the government again, let's do it all again but this time just stick to it? >> if that's what it takes to stand on principle and win, yes. absolutely. >> mark, does that make any sense to you? >> i see it as clawing your way to the bottom. i don't think it makes any sense at all. i think we saw where it got us this time. i think we should adopt a different approach. >> well, mark, i hate to tell you that, but my way won for 12 years. we did some pretty amazing things with five margins fighting against really all odds. but we won. your way we lose all the time. >> but congressman, it does sound like you're painting what just occurred here as a victory. i mean, do a lot of people you talk to see it that way? >> i don't see it as a victory. i see it as a great fight. and finally we've got some

people that are standing up and filling the voids in leadership. i think that's what the american people have been crying for. >> and to you, ted cruz is a major leader of the republican party right now? >> absolutely. get out here in the real world. i was just at a meeting last night where people were just singing his praises. and they will carry him on their shoulders when he gets back to texas, i guarantee you. the real people in the real world outside of washington understand that. >> "the houston chronicle" which endorsed him doesn't seem to like him anymore. >> well, "the houston chronicle's" a liberal rag. come on, please. >> mark, do you see ted cruz as having a big future here? >> listen, i think that he'll probably represent texas for a long time. he's got a lot of support in the texas republican primaries. but he doesn't have broad support. and that's where the republican party needs to go. the republican party needs much broader support. >> mark, you need to come home. you need to come home.

you have no clue. the entire texas delegation voted against the deal last night. the people here in texas are extremely proud of him. they're proud of the fight that they put up. and mark, i love you, brother, but you need to come home. >> well, i'm spending a lot of time at home. i talk to the same people. and i also realize, congressman, that it's one thing to start a fire, it's another thing to put them out. if we want to just break washington more we can keep on the same track. if we want to build on it we need to adopt a new strategy. both for the party and for the country. >> why don't you come up with one that wins? >> i'll caucus with you on that. >> you come up with one that wins i'll be all with you. >> this has been great for no labels. millions of people are signing up. we have 87 members of congress who have joined and realize we have to work together instead of draw lines in the sand. >> wow, that's impressive. >> congressman delay, appreciate you being on. mark mckinnon as well. thank you. >> kick it hard. >> thank you. >> there you go. just ahead, what made it into

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the bill that reopened the government today and raised the debt ceiling is 35 pages long. it will keep the government running until january 15th. the new fiscal cliff deadline is february 7th. those are the bill's key features. but there's a lot more in those 35 pages with some surprising additions some folks might have missed. call them earmarks or pork or extras, they're part of the bill that wasn't entirely clean afterall. congressional correspondent jake tapper keeping them honest. >> great news. panda cam is back. more importantly, the federal

government is open for business. but in order to get that compromise bill done, there were of course some shoe horned extras. some conservatives cried pork after a $2 billion authorization for the olmstead lock and dam project was added to the bill. >> we're here on the ohio river on the olmstead lock an dams project. >> the money will continue to pay for this massive army corps of engineers project along the ohio river. the conservatives fund dubbed it the kentucky kickback, blaming the addition on kentucky's own senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. >> i'm pleased to get a first-hand briefing of a project i and others have been working on providing the funds for. >> mcconnell has long supported the dam project. here he is on a visit in 2009. this morning he fired back at critics on wvlk radio in lexington. >> there was no earmark. the army corps of engineers

requested the olmstead lock funding both house and senate passed an authorization for it. every single member of the senate and house had a chance to review it and no one asked it to be taken out. >> senate majority leader harry reid agreed last night. >> this is not an earmark. it saves the taxpayers lots of money. >> it turns out, officials say, stopping and restarting the project would have cost over $200 million if the authorization had not gone through. oh, and president obama had the same provision to continue the project. in his 2014 budget. >> rather than talking about shutting down the government, it's time to talk about shutting down the waste. >> tom shacks is president of citizens against government waste. >> adding a provision to fund a dam opens a door for similar projects in the next c.r. this project has tripled in cost. it's behind schedule. and if regular order had prevailed it's unclear whether that would have been funded at

all in the normal energy and water appropriations bill. >> other additions to the bill to reopen the government include $175,000 which will be paid to the widow of senator frank lautenberg. he was one of the wealthiest members of congress. roll call reported he was worth more than $50 million in 2011. finally let's call this one the edward snowden effect. the privacy and civil liberties oversight board will get $3.1 million set up to guard americans's right to protection against cyber overreach by the government and u.s. intelligence. >> jake what is mitch mcconnell saying about this? >> this isn't an earmark. he points out accurately president obama had the money for this in his 2014 budget and the house and senate have passed it. and his office also says he's not the one that put it into the bill. senator lamar alexander of tennessee and senator diane

feinstein of california who take credit or blame for putting that in there. that said this is washington, d.c. when somebody is negotiating a major deal and just happens to end up with billions of dollars for a dam in his state, well, as president clinton once said, if i see a snail on top of a fence post it didn't get there by itself. >> what are other lawmakers you're talking to saying? >> well, i think the people who are really anti-pork like senator john mccain are upset this didn't go through the normal process. most republicans are saying because they understand this is something probably very important to the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell who is facing a tough re-election fight possibly are saying well i wish it had gone through the normal process but they are not specifically criticizing the actual dam or the actual project. >> all right. jake tapper, thanks, jake. >> thanks, anderson. let's get caught up on other stories. isha sesay is here with the 360 bulletin.

>> new york city police are on a desperate search for a missing autistic teenager. 14-year-old avonte aquendo vanished after running out of school two weeks ago. now his mother's voice is being played on house speeders imploring him to call out to police. a man with a knife hijacked a school bus in arkansas this morning. 11 elementary school children were on board. police chased the bus for ten miles. they were able to stop and arrest 22-year-old nicholas john miller. the three women who are victims of kidnapper ariel castro may receive compensation from the ohio state government. a bill in the ohio state legislature would give them up to $25,000 for each year they were held captive. and anderson, take a look at this. nearly 100 bush fires are burning in australia. police say one man died trying to defend its home from the flames. hundreds of homes are in danger of being destroyed. conditions are said to be hot

and dry, very very difficult situation, anderson. >> incredible pictures. isha, thanks. up next, breaking news, nsa leaker edward snowden gives his first extensive interview. did the documents he took up end up in the hands of russian and chinese intelligence? we'll see what he says. so, this board gives me rates for progressive direct and other car insurance companies? yes. but you're progressive, and they're them. yes. but they're here. yes. are you...? there? yes. no. are you them? i'm me. but those rates are for... them. so them are here. yes! you want to run through it again? no, i'm good. you got it? yes. rates for us and them -- now that's progressive. call or click today. at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee, affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires?

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welcome back. break news tonight about edward snowden, the former computer contractor for the national

security agency who leaked a trove of classified documents exposing secret government surveillance programs. in an extensive interview with the "new york times" snowden insists he did not take any of those documents with him to russia where he's been granted asylum for one year. he tells the "new york times" he gave documents to journalists in hong kong and did not keep any documents ensuring russian and chinese government could not get ahold of them. he says he was familiar with china's capabilities because he targeted those very operations as an nsa contractor. one of the columnists snowden gave documents to is glen greenwald. >> snowden is saying he gave you and another colleague all the documents. is that true? >> he's been saying for quite a long time now that he never gave

any documents of any kind to the chinese and russians. knowing as he did the capabilities that they have because that was what he was trained to learn at the nsa it was impossible for them to have gotten any. whether he took any to russia, i obviously can't say for certain. but i know for certain that his intention was to undermine the ability of states to engage in mass surveillance, not had help states do so by giving documents to other governments. so it's certainly credible. there's zero evidence that he ever gave any documents or let any of those documents out of his control despite the desire of people in the media to simply assert it without evidence. >> and a lot of people have been saying that to your point. and in this interview, he says that there's a zero percent chance that the chinese were able to break into his computer or get any of the documents because of his knowledge. are you as confident as he is that that's the case? >> i am. remember, i've spent the last 4 1/2 months reading through

many, many top secret nsa documents, some of which discuss what their abilities are with regard to breaking through encryption processes and what their inabilities are. but he's certainly one of the more credible people to talk about that, because as i said, he was a highly sophisticated cyber operative trained in how to penetrate the defenses of china and other countries like russia. and so he's fully aware of what defensive measures you can take to prevent hacking by those countries and he's aware of what works and what does not work. and i know i saw his methods, extremely attentive to making sure that he protected that material using all the advanced forms available. >> as you said, you've been spending months reading through these documents. what percentage of these documents have you been able to actually reveal so far? i mean, how much more information is there out there that will make headlines, that will surprise people? >> you know, genuinely a small

percentage. i've been saying from the beginning whenever i'm asked that question, the same thing, that there's still a lot of stories to come. in many many countries around the world, including in the united states. and it's always been true and it still is true. these documents are very complicated. you have to piece them together. a lot of them take reporting. so the process isn't fast. when wikileaks got their diplomatic stuff it took them months to begin publishing the first one you. have to go through them and vet them and understand them. but there are genuinely very significant stories, ones i think will surprise people. the problem of course i think people know by now the nsa is trying to collect everything. so it's sort of hard to generate shock. that's not our goal. our goal is to inform people of of things they don't know. and there's definitely a lot of that still coming. >> i want to quickly ask you about the major changes in leadership at nsa over the next six months. nsa chief general alexander stepping down as is one of his top aides. how much do you think is that

the result of the snowden leaks? >> whenever there's a major scandal in washington and then the top officials implicated in it leave, they never say, the government does, that they're leaving because of that. so it's impossible to know. usually the trite phrase is they're leaving to spend more time with their families. there was someone on twitter who remarked yesterday that general alexander was leaving in order to spend less time with your family. but i think clearly there's a connection. he's been viewed as one of the most powerful military officials in the world. he really set the nsa in his image. the phrase that he uses is collect it all which was pioneered during the iraq war. and so it will have a major impact on this agency. and i think clearly one can infer it's not just him but his deputy that there's some connection to movement for the reform inside the nsa in washington inside their departure. >> lastly i know there's probably a lot you can't say about it. you're leaving the guardian newspaper for a venture funded by e-bay's founder.

it sounds like a huge and exciting venture for you. what can you say? >> it's extremely exciting. and the idea behind is is that there are a lot of things that we think aren't being done the right way when it comes to aggressive adversarial journalism that we intend to be able to do. we want to create a major network that supports independent journalists, ones who don't run to the government and write down what government officials say and pass it along and call that reporting but who actually want to dig and subject to critical scrutiny what government officials say, what they're doing in the dark to inform the public. and it needs a really substantial support institution of researchers and technology and security and lawyers and reporters to do that. and that's what this new venture is designed to create. so it's very exciting for me individually, and i think for journalism generally. >> congratulations on that. up next we're going to check back with senate chaplain barry black who used his pulpit to

scold lawmakers during the shutdown. why he says there may be a silver lining in the ugly battle that just ended. i'll call you in a little bit. google... how do i get home? getting directions. "stubborn love" by the lumineers did you i did. email? so what did you think of the house? did you see the school ratings? oh, you're right. hey babe, i got to go. bye daddy! have a good day at school, ok? ...but what about when my parents visit? ok. i just love this one... and it's next to a park. i love it. i love it too. here's our new house... daddy!

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over the past two weeks on capitol hill one voice stood out not because it was the loudest or most outrageous. it was a voigt of calm and

reason. that actually counted as being pretty unique around here. he opened each senate session as usual with a prayer and did not mince words. chaplain black's words reached farther than the senate floor. snl did a skit about him. we talked to him today. >> how do you feel this is finally over? people were referring to you as the last sane man in the senate. >> well, i don't agree with that characterization. but i am as elated as so many americans are that this impasse has been taken care of, that this challenge has been met. >> what was the reaction you got from serving members of the house and the senate to some of your prayers? >> well, most of the feedback that i received was positive. obviously there are probably some people who feel that my prayers should not have been as

pointed as they were. >> did anybody express that to you? >> no one expressed that to me, but i do enough reading in the media to know that there were those who felt that way. >> why did you feel it was important to be pointed? >> i think that it is critically important that a clergy person does not utter in prayer an intercession irrelevant platitudes. if you're in a burning house and you're going to pray for the folk who are in there, they extricate themselves from the conflagration. you're not going to say now i lay me down to sleep, it's time to run for your life not embrace slumber. so my prayers simply reflect the reality of the environment that i'm in. >> do you think this nation has been made stronger by what happened or has it weakened us?

>> i am convinced that there are blessings in adversity. and i think that you're strong in the broken places. if you look at the history of our nation, we've overcome far greater obstacles than what we've gone through here. i mean, we lost over 600,000 people in the civil war. i mean, we've gone through gargantuan challenges where police dogs were attacking people and that kind of thing. i think we're a resilient nation. and that's one of the amazing things about this experiment in dempsey. >> what does that mean to be strong in the broken places? >> i think that sometimes the bone that is broken and mends is stronger than the rest of the bone. and so i think that very often it's the same with an individual. david said in the 119th psalm verse 67 "it was good for me they was afflicted."

so i think that many times afflictions, hardships have a positive impact. someone once said god sometimes puts us on our backs to get us to look up. >> final question. kind of a silly question. but i don't know of any person in your position who has had a role on "saturday night live." i don't know if you happened to see it this past weekend where someone pretended to be you. it is a huge honor. did you see it? >> i understand that. i'm an old school. i'm way back to the john belushi days. but i have three sons. they sent me links. i'm embarrassed to say i was not even aware of keenan thompson. probably one of few that wasn't aware of. i'm aware he did a good job. he had the bow tie spot on. he needs to lower the pitch a little bit. it's not let us pray but let us pray.

and work on being just a little less truculent and irreverent. but the premise was beautiful. i do have an unyielding optimism. when i'm given a check by a journalist my first impulse is to say let us pray. so spot on, keenan. keep up the good work. >> thank you very much. dr. black. >> that's it for "ac 360 later." special edition of "ac 360 later" that we're calling "ac i was made to work.

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