will go out and buy a prisoner available on amazon. and reputable bookstores around the country. .. >> thank you so much for joining us this book conversation. tell us about on mask. who is your audience and what is the biggest take away? >> well, when we were approached by -- to do this book my initial reaction was i didn't want to do it.

and my co-author felt the same way because we thought, what else can we write about that everyone doesn't know already about the press? so, i said why don't you go take all of -- in come back and tell me what you think. he came back and we discussed it in i thought there's a book here. and, the book is the narrative. the fact that it's prologue to what is going to follow in the next year in the sense that, if you look at this coverage on donald trump, from day one, up until the present, you are going to see the story about a man who has the dominated press coverage on like any figure in american history. ants, who has received in return the worst coverage of any man in history. not just quantitatively, in

which a series of studies, but qualitatively. not just in the percent of negative coverage, but in the totality of it. when you put it all together, it's stunning to see what is happened in the last three years. we have heard so much emma we are just not listening anymore. but if you look at this coverage, you will see in which the media changed and the biggest take away is, i truly believe when we write about this in the book, this has been an attempt to destroy a president, to nullify the democratic process. but at the end of the day, many of these media operations have destroyed themselves. >> and that is certainly what you mentioned in the first chapter, that you said that donald trump understood the news media was his most powerful enemy, hell-bent on preventing his election and when that failed, destroying his presidency.

he went to war, this is the story of a media set out to destroy a president and his the administration but destroyed themselves instead. that's very powerful words that the media destroyed themselves. in what way do you think? >> let's look at their credibility. the credibility is everything for the news media. if you don't have that, you are nothing but a national enquirer. and if you don't have credibility, people are not going to watch you anymore. they're not going to look at you for news or for truth. look at the numbers of these. they are clashing, the most telling numbers i think would be cnn. cnn, it once was the gold standard of journalism. go back years ago when shaw was the anchor. did it have a liberal dive? sure. but you could work with cnn and

tom johnson. you could sit down and have a frank conversation with him. and sometimes the agreed and they would chase a story. even ted turner could hear you out. that was cnn then. cnn today, clearly wants no conservatives. clearly is on a mission against donald trump. and its audience clearly is leaving. the members, the last time i checked 500, a 571,000 viewers on a good night. now, to put that one in perspective, that is two tenths of 1% of the american relation. that's what it's reaching now. to put that in its proper perspective, there are more people who own pet chickens and watch cnn. >> is not to be fair though? what about numbers, social

media,. >> all go there in a second. i got a finish my fun story but you are right. and my favorite, there are more prostitutes in america than viewers of cnn. i'm not sure what that means. does that mean cnn is completely irrelevant? no. go to cnn.com has about 20 million people on its site. you get a lot more news on cnn.com then you will get on cnn. it's like cbs.com is quite good. cbs is not. fox, foxes got 26 million coming to its site. if you want to get your story out, fox news is nice.

fox news.com is the place to go. >> we have an audience but when it comes to the institution of cnn like you see in the dentist office, people are watching it anymore. >> in terms of another they have to look at, was clear that donald trump was itching for a fight with the media, he was going to put the entire profession on trial in the court of public opinion. he did that by introducing two words that within a year had been part of the political -- of faith news. how do you define fake news? >> in the book we discussed it. that has to be explained. there are different gradations of this. there is -- the distortion of the story. the twisting of the story to been to the political worldview

of the author. you can have two kinds of bias in that direction. you can have the bias like omission in which you move things the title, the people you interview, is the labeling and the conclusion you reach. then there is that by omission which is just the opposite. it is the refusal to write a story, to do a story, to label people, to give the other side of the story, to put a complete headline and give a proper proper conclusion. that's the first level. the second level is false news. false news is a story that somebody reports on knowingly. this is often times a reflection of poor journalism. once upon a time the journalism 101 was two independent sources and you don't have a new story.

now people are rushing to come out with anything they can to be the first kids on the block with the story. that makes for bad journalism. but then -- is big news. fake news is the publishing of news stories you know that are not true. you know have not been vetted, you know they could be absolutely untrue. that's big news. that's a harsh indictment on the industry. i will give you a micro. a story. >> is a story about how trump had sent mike flynn to russia to talk to the russians. well, there's your evidence. >> president -- candidate trump. >> we voted as president trump, national security advisor. well, i'm sorry the nisei

candidate trump and they had collusion and that meant that the stock market dropped 300 points. and this was serious, serious guacamole. >> with a president that's normal protocol to send to an advisor to -- >> if you don't know, he has been the senior investigative reporter for abc. >> let's just agree that some things there. now look at the marco. you see fire, collusion, story has been one big exercise in fake news.

i don't care what you think of donald trump. you'll care what anybody thinks about donald trump. but from day one he said there is not one scintilla of evidence, from day one no one ever know reporter, no politician, no public policy organization, no one never delivered one scintilla of evidence. yet when we looked at this the published in a report, just under 20% of all news story since donald trump was president have dealt with russia collusion. think about all the economic stories on unemployment, taxes and spending. all of the stories on foreign policy, on isis, russia, china, all of the stories on social policies. all of the stories on politics.

yet 20% of all news stories something that did not exist. >> do you think the mueller report -- >> i think the whole investigation was fake news. look, what bob mueller in his report, it was nothing. there's nothing there. the real question is, what in the world was going on with our government? what was going on and triggered an investigation that would derail a presidency, that would undo a presidency that had justice officials attempting to defeat donald trump in the residency. there is a much bigger issue that were dealing with. let's see if a reporter thinks it's interesting. there are couple had tackled this.

i think is going to change. because they are investigating it. let's see what happens when the media has to cover, is going to be interesting. >> even the media now has been reporting about the average voter and how they feel about the mueller report form bob mueller or, they don't know. either they don't know or they don't care. and for them, cnn did a list of issues that they care about and literally 0% said mueller. so, why do you think they're such a disconnect between what voters care about or what the media chooses? >> the media are not covering news anymore. news is very subjective. walter cronkite longtime producer, how many ways do you want and in it, half of it dealt with his days as a newspaper and if they asked in the print media what is news, and he said news is what the editor says it is.

the second half dealt with television. he so what is news and news is what the producer says it is. what cnn and company want to be news is that this was collusion and that bob mueller was going to uncover it. and what happened we don't buy it, we don't see anything. it's not climate change. yet seen that as a top shelf concern. i'm picking on cnn but cnn is the worst. >> and yet, if you look at the publics perception on this, i don't care how many, you have to have the pile or the public. they can defend themselves by saying look, it's not our business to get the public with the public wants. it's our business to give them the news. and i will accept that. but, at the same token after all

the stories, what the public is saying is, you are not giving me anything that is moving my opinion at all. >> as someone who's been a guest on cnn, what they usually say is in response to a conservative is that while there were multiple indictments that were produced, we know more about the extent to which russians were interfering in the process. so, this was worthwhile to say it's disingenuous not to mention many welcome -- to clear the president. >> well, the answer would be, yes. in every single indictment dealt with something about someone who had nothing to do with -- and the central investigation did those trump campaign collude with the russians? in the bottom line is, the

answer is no and there's never any evidence and all of this other stuff had nothing to do with it. the 13 russians who you never know who they are. there is one question that was raised. one line of questions i was raised that i thought was really interesting, who tipped cnn off on that outrageous raid on roger stone's home? it doesn't matter if roger stone was innocent or was innocent or guilty. the fact that this almost 70-year-old man would be at this kind of landing an attack on his house at 6:00 o'clock in the morning and cnn was taking a long, bob mueller said there wasn't --dash a leak. of course there is a leak. who is calling cnn taken a long. i was really out of balance. >> one thing you look in the

book is you make the argument that you make the difference of republicans versus democrats and how they are treating the press and how the press treated ken starr versus bob mueller. you think the testimony has happened you think the press will turn on bob mueller. >> i think they do already. the media turned on him. it's interesting, he came out with this press conference and said that donald trump was innocent. >> there is 12 - 24 hours of stunned silence. >> all of them expected that he was going to come out with something serious against the president. but good to democrats, jerry nadler and company started beating the drums that this is not over yet we are going to investigated because there's gazillions of dollars in three years, they didn't do their jobs were going to do it.

in the media just started following going down. and basically they threw mueller under the bus, after three years of declaring what an honorable man he was, he was useless to them. so, now the testimony and the congressional testimony was going to get to the bottom. it was mueller 2.0. it was this time with them i am looking very frail this was backed by tremendous -- again 12 hours of silence. the democrats now say it was the republicans. so it's interesting how it is repeating itself. >> and one thing in your book over and over, it is a low level of trust in the institution of media. i want your thoughts on something you talk about with

barack obama in the coverage with him. you see senator obama said it was a friend of obama he has got such great publicity all of his life that one of his friends joke to me this morning, he is throwing his halo into the ring. so,. >> to what extent do you think the victory of donald trump who is certainly that is looking at the institution of media, and to extent do you think barack obama is presidency to the rise of donald trump. >> i think barack obama triggered it. >> barack obama was the outsider. i'm an essay for years that a republican businessman was going to run for president. and i think barack obama and

zero we allow that to happen because, obama was an outsider in his own right. he was not an establishment figure. so i think the country was getting a little bit use to outside figures. however. it was also the reason, one of the few reasons why there is such hostility to donald trump. it was that donald trump who almost from the get go stated that it was his intention to undo what barack obama had done. barack obama talked about the fundamental transformation of america. donald trump said, we are going to undo that. and he went through a litany of issues. >> the clean they god, guns and religion that obama sought.

>> and right to the evangelical. >> and you found president trump speech in poland where he referenced gato repeatedly in the catholic faith and the shared culture of a faith in god. to what extent do you think that evangelical perception of how the obama presidency treated them may have contributed to that rise as well? >> i think the evangelicals decided that they were going to put their faith in a very flawed human being. but, it was a flawed human being who is saying to them, a, flawed nbi will continue to be flawed. but, i am going to deliver on what i promise. and that is the uppermost was that. here's an interesting thing. that i don't know people realize this, do you know i can make the argument that donald trump is

the most pro-life president in history. who would've thunk that one. but think about it. he is the first presidential candidate, ever to promise a pro-life supreme court justice. no one has ever done that before. >> you mention that in the book. i thought maybe ronald reagan had promised her george w. bush. >> no one. no one has ever said, donald trump said it in every speech and then he gave a list of 20 justices. so, i think that really registered. and then, what did he do with the first -- he said his first vice president and then he spoke at it last year, this is something that republicans don't two. and he immediately put course such as there is pro-life. were going to assume he is, so we he delivered on those

promises. and the evangelical camp continues to be very happy with the man. these are some strange times we are living in that you never thought would happen, but it did happen. >> so, i want to talk about your relationship. you talk about it in the book and how president trump, at the time, he hadn't even -- but then president trump came out and asked for lunch at trump tower. and you said, he pushed back softly and gently to words i would have thought could never appear in a sentence also containing the word trump. you described him as full of humility and graciousness which was 3.5 months before he declared and then he said, after he declared and was very braggadocio is and he said the man i met was nowhere to be found now that he was on stage. there is not a hint of humility or thoughtfulness or kindness. all the things he has shown to me. why do you think in your opinion

does a presidents embrace a persona that seems to be so different from the person you seen privately and you think this hurts him with the females, with minority voters who maybe that is not their cup of tea. >> very good question. and, i am not alone, many people have said the same thing that in private he's a very different person. i was stunned. perception is what i went into believing i was going to get. and, as i wrote in the book, it was the opposite. thoughtful, quiet, inquisitive, humble. yet he was bragging about some things but it was a very different man. and, i left thinking my god, if america sees this man, this guy is going places. and then immediately he did that. why did he go loud mouth and all that stuff?

he is a master marketer. he understood something about politics that again, barack obama -- but he obama fundamentally change politics. obama took the equation that says in a primary campaign democrats go for their liberal base and -- go for the base. knowing that a site he says my minority base, not black but lesser numbers than my left-wing minority base is if i can get them more agitated, more mobilized, i can beat up your majority base to the republicans and that is just what he did, twice. he used social media to do it. donald trump reversed it. he went right back to the democrats. he got his space so worked up, that his because he could never

give 50% he said in the polls. his base beat up the democrats and use social media, as well. he replicated barack obama. >> to what extent in 2018 republicans lost the house. do you think some of this was related to toner the persona that is public versus who the man is? >> you can say will in the off year the incoming party loses x amount and that's true. you can say there was a swath of resignations of retirements and that was true. at the end of the day, i don't think he won new friends between 2016 and 2018. his popularity, not so sure his popularity goes down. it transmits itself to the republicans at the state and local level. i don't know that it does.

>> so many of those deeds lost were from members that had either been luke or not embraced him. >> put it this way, when donald trump goes into a district or state and he says, i don't like the republican in there. his base jumps up, barbara comstock, my own congresswoman that's what he did in that's what happened to her. at the end of the day with with trump it's a personality. obama did not translate necessarily downstream. and so 28 i don't think -- i think 2020 is going to be a fascinating year. no one knows where it's going, everyone is making predictions. but i will say, you know how everybody states today, i knew

donald trump was going to win. i think i'm the only person who is willing to put in writing, that when asked, i look to future the president in the eye and i said there was no way he could win. >> and you mentioned in the book that even fox news several weeks out from the election was projecting trump would lose as well. >> like 1.2 people, i think the one public figure who i think has the greatest laughing moment today is -- when she went on bill marsha when she was asked to sheath outgoing to when she said him. and, i mean, the audience fell apart in laughter as they all laughed at her. i think she is the one who has the greatest last laugh. >> in you were at one point a trump skeptic. you wrote an op-ed for a national review calling on some critiques that came came out against them. but once you ran the primary you

didn't join the ranks. you had concerns and -- to what extent did you see you got a donor base, obviously not disclosing what you can but to what extent was your donor base tomorrow. you think it was a conservative movement it could be a chamber of commerce -- to what extent did you feel pressure from the establishment who may have felt trump with donors who might be more invasive. >> i guess on the way it did not affect us that much because we are a 501 c3 organization. personally i can do whatever i want as long as i do so personally. there are people in both camps. i had people who were upset with

me who were not supporting trump. i had people who were upset with me because they thought i was supporting trump. and, with some you just can't win. it really did happen on both ends. but, nationally, it's unfortunate that not trump became never trump. that piece, that addition was titled, no trump. >> against trump, wasn't it? >> against trump. i know that because many people say it was against trump it was not never trump. >> but that's exactly what it was. i had endorsed ted cruz. i was asked to submit a piece as to why i was supporting ted cruz over donald trump. in the book i reprint exactly what i wrote. i stand behind it and there was

a donald trump, he did not walk with conservatives like reagan did. it's a simple. well, unfortunately that addition became the bible for never trump. there were some people with the national view and continue to be very vocal vocally anti- trump. but we got that in there. i was the recipients of other interesting hate suite. . . . >> at the end of the lunch he asked and i said we had and he sent a check afterwards.

my wife was not happy with that but it was be met but the language i found that to be interesting because that's a phrase that used to describe alma rosato to fire her like a dog with multiple people against men and women but somehow against women as a feminist so talking about the humility when the president uses language like that is it unfair is he truly sexist or wait racist or more equal combatant if i am speaking out of turn i apologize but i do

believe it was brian williams asked, i'm not making this up if donald trump was anti- dog. [laughter] that like the pot calling the kettle black. isn't that fascinating to savage the president for the language that he uses? while calling him a nazi or every despicable name you could hurl at the president of the united states. this is one of the findings of the book all modicum of decency have been cast aside

from his opponents to him. they call him far worse things they are attempting to do far worse it's telling and you are right you have a right and i have a right the press doesn't. >> with the prospect of operating illegal immigrants as a dictator executing people that is the washington post not coming from the nation. >> if you report what is happening at the border honestly what ever happened to

the caravans? are all doing stories of those that are marching and then they just disappear? guess what. they are crossing the border right now. the media is not reporting on the fact america is being invaded in a very bad way by some very bad people. in the book we cite the flipside to all the negative so what good has he done? in fact if you look at the litany of accomplishments it is extraordinary as of october

2018 his administration had apprehended 127,000 illegal immigrants with records so of all those stories about what is going on on the border is a room for that story to be told quick. >> and it goes through different levels of coverage with the best unemployment numbers but then talk about how a cast member was on staff over 16 years and the book shows the statistics without positive data released of those statistics black latino or asian americans 621 versus

the russia investigation versus what they don't care about from the conversation earlier. so you quote in the book also and as a journalism professor he said i feel journalism by failing to inform the public. this is from a journalism professor. so i am curious to what extent is the pipeline? as you document in the book and then to go back to the 19 sixties so what extent does journalism school that they

inculcate this bias into their students quick. >> i wish journalism schools would have a mandatory internship for their students for one year they have real job jobs. they have to go work in real america to see how the real world operates. this is an institution with the school of journalism to never set foot in america they don't understand real world experiences. they don't understand the idea of investment or sacrifice or they don't know how to hire somebody they don't know the pain of laying somebody off. and i say that but i do believe in a real way that you

need to understand. and then to tip the applecart. know how many more the chaise i can come up with but this is what they are doing. seamlessly throwing out the word fascist or communist and barack obama and how long he would las last. >> so with the industry talking about that we might as well get those nuremberg rallies that they compared trump to hitler comparisons is growing by the day calling trump and neofascist and then

to document the extent to which the very casually but looking at the futures of the millennial population is 44 percent nonwhite. and 39 over 20 percent. with dwight eisenhower similar to nixon. and now for generations of black voters so if we have multi generational black voters with the conservative movement what does that say going forward with the majority nonwhites?

looking at the future what's the future for the conservative movement if it is so entrenched in those narratives from the minority quick. >> it depends on what conservatives do. there may be a tectonic shift taking place. i don't know if it's temporary or permanent. but here's what i do know the republican establishment is irrelevant to the public conversation. nobody cares whether one - - what united states senate believes about anything. the house is one step behind that with relevancy where the republican party is concerned the reason there is a republican president because spending half the time going

against the republican party. and that's the only reason he is they are. he became a populist and attracted blacks. and weiss said what do you have to lose? and with the enterprise program. i think he will move move the black vote with him as well so to show it is high time conservatives stood up to the press. he did not defend himself he started this to show how they

can be defeated so where the conservative movement is concerned they have a lesson they've learned for him. >> with criminal justice reform record unemployment that they are looking to move the needle and with that to be from the grassroots conservative and in that movement from donald trump quick. >> to some degree is the freedom caucus the republican was the dominant one - - sin ominous. everybody wanted to be a

reagan conservative. today you have the freedom caucus in the house and they are the conservatives with a handful of republicans in the senate because that's how you get elected they are the only conservatives in town. how long can the republicans keep up the façade of conservatives it's no different with economic issues. >> and to be disagreed upon.

>> but that the president would do that every republican and even democrats of fiscal conservativism why we stop the crazy spending and they will be affected by this republicans did nothing but point the finger now their pointing fingers at the republicans so there will be that comeuppance but with the children and the grandchildren.

>> in terms of what is next you even said yourself the stories of the mueller investigation is incredible but what is next in terms of their strategy now the knight in shining armor has done this to them quick. >> now what do they do? they have invested on the proposition that there was going to be a real possibility of removing this man from office and not only the possibilit possibility, but a calling and a justification so meanwhile you have the radicals that are agitating for it.

so she is a moderate compared to the radicals but the media would have continued oxygen to the radicals and if nancy pelosi knows into on the news media if the public sees this for what it is that it is if the emperor had no close and they are beating a dead horse. >> you talk about usa today pulling with the media and the divide between democratic respondents about the media and generally it is on their

side where they believe the media as against their side. >> to what extent they are telling them how to mitigate? why doesn't the media understand if you are trying to sell soap or another product why wouldn't you listen to them quick. >> there is a fallacy that says trumps politics when it comes to the news media but for that reason let's go back to cnn. they have had an endless number of presidents. but somebody i knew he was involved in a network on the west coast and said it's all

about the numbers. it's all about the numbers we only care about the numbers so i called him i will do you two favors and you will owe me forever. he said that's awful. i said the first is get on cnn aircraft and bring your checkbook try to find directions to rush the buzz house knock on the door sign a blank check and give it to him he can fill it in for whatever amount he once and do whatever he wants and you'll have the number one network on television. that's all you have to do. he said was a second idea quick. >> whatever you do don't pick a fight with roger ailes. he did and he lost his job if you want to regain your audience within 15 seconds of

market analysis will tell you from that conservative standpoint go back to news you will bring the conservatives back msnbc we'll rather go down in flames all of these will looking at this as a proposition so they do the opposite of fox. they know what they are doing. >> you don't get too much into it but with the technology and conservatives of that ideological bias with that comparative content should that be broken up quick.

>> too soon to tell. is there a need to do something? yes. because all of it has gone in this direction to cast aside of the open marketplace of idea and with that legal protection so will they change course? i don't know. i don't think they will. but if they don't can you compete against them? could another facebook or google emerge? if we look at the power they have how can you compete with

facebook when they reach two.2 billion people across the gulf? had you compete with google with 92 percent of search engines? if you cannot compete with them then you have trust issues and that is the quintessential conservative position it's too soon to tell if you can or cannot be competitive in that sphere. >> with a comparison of teddy roosevelt was that the claim to fame the rough rider the outsider and rough-and-tumble unafraid to challenge the establishment quick. >> yes. guess what? elizabeth warren also i see in

the future and alliance on a number of different issues when it comes to corporate america to see more more people on the right that say it's corrupting washington and everybody knows in this setting this is the interesting dynamic donald trump is going in the ted cruz direction. and then with the alliance

with the interesting dynamic. >> with those other executives here in this conversation, what word you say to them? with those that are critics of donald trump is that he is dividing the country they have been for years so then there would not be a need but that is the only system to be very surprised and that i was a real conservative.

actually trump posted a dinner they all knew each other but as i was speaking there were people chatting around the table one person said i didn't know you were a conservative. and that is in the news media it is all they know and they all work at the same network

they believe there is a mainstream i don't like mainstream media because they are not mainstream they are too far to the left but they don't see themselves that way at all. so what i would say higher conservatives bring them into the fold to make sure they are professional they know how to be reporters because there are some that don't know how go back to journalism to bring them in and see what happens when you have to include them some very good things will happen spit the new york times has seen an uptick it was the same thing under bill clinton with national review and if there is a financial incentive.

>> fox cnn msnbc - - msnbc clearly all of them are motivated but wish sean hannity and laura ingram 10 percent is not in the afternoon. but then to say i can carve out a certain piece of the pie for myself they have to look at the number by how little we had half of that i don't know that formula is working for

them but do you know what's missing in all of that? journalism. looking at the 24 hour news networks how much time is spent on real news reporting? very little. and it might be true maybe the market doesn't want this. >> thank you so much for joining us here to talk about your book thank you so much.

>> i found myself overwhelmingly frustrated writing this book because i don't understand why we didn't get to figure out presidential suggestion and never treated with any degree of seriousness. it takes three presidents to be assassinated that it's a good idea to protect the president? we should let them be overrun with office seekers those who may or may not have been mentally ill and anybody had access to the president and to that extent and we don't do this professionally but they use protection from the patronage opportunity from their buddies from home if i was a target i would not want my buddies from home protecting me i like they

would essay like me but would not take a bullet for me but what frustrated me the very first close call was madison on his deathbed and dolly madison catches wind they are beginning succession proceedings on what to do in the senate talking about the vice president and she writes a note exaggerating her husbands recovery. he does make one but he was instrumental to write the constitution and nobody bothers to ask him what did you mean when you say the same shall devolve on the vice president? andrew jackson and shot point-blank by the man who thinks he is king of england that 125,000 chances a malfunctioning it doesn't work then beat him with his cane. some founding fathers were still alive nobody bothered to ask them what do they mean by default to the vice president so by the time harrison drops

dead 1841 in but they have been dead and there is nobody to ask. >> thank you for your patience welcome. thank you for being here tonight i am the program director for all of our members are here tonight and those to check out the planetarium there is a free admission pass at the front desk so stop by and grab one he