c-span, the senate banking committee talks about the impact the housing market is having on renters and communities around the country. then live at 2:30 p.m. i hearing on the future of wireless communications and the fcc auction of the radio frequencies that wireless signals use. on c-span2 a look at the economic injury disaster loan program and the decision to stop processing applications in may. that's alive at 10 a.m. at 12 p.m. the senate gavels in to continue work on judicial nominations. everything also streams live on the free c-span now that you have or online at c-span.org. >> listening to programs through writer just got easier. play c-span radio app listened "washington journal" daily at 7 a.m. eastern, important congressional hearings and other public affairs throughout the day and weekdays at 5 p.m. and n

today for a fast pace report on the stories of the day. listen to c-span anytime. just tell your smart speaker play c-span radio app c-span, powered by cable. >> welcome to politics d prose. super thrilled you are here. welcome back to events in the store. [applause] we couldn't be happier you are here, and please tell your friends that we're back in store and to look online for a fence. with the poster back as if it were sloppy w back that we can't stop talking about so please help us and talk about it some more. my name is -- lily take this off. my name is wendy wasserman. i am the community sales manager here at politics and prose. one of the things we do a politics and prose in addition to these events and sell your books and fill your bookcase is we do speaker bureaus where we cann work with you to bring some

authors into your businesses. so i run that program, super happy to be here. okay, so little housekeeping forgets her withtu the show as t were. this is a time where he tell you to turn off your phones, angela can you make sure you have done that. that would be really w good. this is also the time where i tell you the programs going to write about an hour. there will be some conversations, some really good conversation for about 45 minutes, and then we will be doing q&a with you guys. there's a mic over here behind the pillar. when you get up you will see it. we are going to ask you if you do have a question for a panelist that you did use the mic that. one of the reasons is because we're filming today both on youtube, live to youtube and also filling with c-span so we want to be able to hear your question and we want them to hear question so they can answer. and then the other thing which is going to ask you afterwards if you can help us fold up the chairs. it's a little housekeeping and

helps us out. so onto the show as it were. you are all here to learn about this great book, "jill: a biography of the first lady." my understanding is the first biography will biography of jill biden. i'm pretty excited about it. and authors to the art julie pace who is the executive editor of "the associated press" and previously she was c with washington bureau chief and white house correspondent. she has won the white house correspondents' association marion smith award in 2013. her co-author is darlene superville who is a white house reporter also at "the associated press." i understand there is a lot of ap alum day. [applause] >> ap alum day, and, therefore, you know darling haspo worked fr over 30 years on the political beat and she covered both president obama is an president trump's terms. of course they are here with the famous susan page who is d.c.

bureau chief of "usa today." so ladies come on in. that's enough from me, and have a good conversation. [applause] good evening. i see some familiar faces out there. the when we go to the q&a, you'll be graded on your willingness staff's tough questions of your new boss. just hope you'll keep that in mind. it's so great to see people in person and especially to talk about such a wonderful new book about an interesting figure important in our times about jill biden. congratulations to the two of you in your book. yeah. thank you. you know, they're all kinds of biographies authorized biographies tell all biographies biographies of the famous and the infamous and the obscure but i do think one of the most difficult biographies to write must be biographies on the fly.

written about figures who are still living and in the process of making news and history, but in some ways those can be the most valuable biographies because they are about public figures. we are still trying to figure out so we welcome to this genre jill a biography of the first lady written appropriately enough by journalists who have covered her and are covering her and i'm going to ask some questions, but we're then going to go to questions will be eager to hear about what is on your mind. so let's start at the beginning. why did you want to write this book? i think one of the things that we found really interesting about jill biden is that she was both this known figure, you know her name, you know who she is. you've seen her on television before you've seen her in the spotlight, but she was also very unknown and if you did know parts of her story, it was often told from the perspective of other people from her husband and from even her children in some cases and so the idea of kind of putting the story back

in her hands telling it from her perspective. i think was appealing to us. i was excited to write about jill biden because i've been on the white house beat as you mentioned or someone mentioned for quite a long time now, and i've covered four first ladies and this book was an opportunity for me to pour out into the book some of that institutional knowledge that i've developed about first ladies. yeah, i think darlene always as i can just say for a second darlene always really undersells herself on this front. i mean she is really like the foremost expert in first ladies, i think in the press corps right now and and does that come with a azure i wish bonus so you decide you're going to write this biography you go to the white house you say to joe biden in her office. we would like to ride a biography of you. what was their reaction? we we were just sort of joking at i when we went to when we went to the first lady's office and sir said we're working on this project. i would say the reaction was not

overly enthusiastic at the beginning at the beginning at the beginning and you know, we really had to you know, think about how we were gonna write this book if she didn't participate in it if she didn't talk to us and how we were going to build this portrait of her, you know using just sources around her and so we we, you know dug in on that front and fortunately through the process, you know, i think as we talked to more people, you know how this goes as a reporter as people start to hear that you're talking people around them. they start to get a little worried and start to i think think that maybe it's time for them to to talk as well. so we were very fortunate that she spent time with us in september we talked with her, you know quite extensively and i think that it was important to us that her voice was in the book. i think, you know knowing that you know, she was able to you know, again tell her story from her perspective. his journalists you really want to make sure that you give people your every opportunity possible to do that. and i would just add that it helped that to reporters from the associated press had come to

the first lady's office with this pitch to write her story because of the ap's credibility our reputation. it wasn't going to be a kind of a got ship book or we weren't going to be digging into her past or like whatever dirty pass she may have or not have had that kind of thing. so that was a really big selling point. i think for them. just knowing knowing me knowing julie and knowing the ap's credibility, but you didn't start the book knowing that she was going to cooperate definitely not and you would have done it. anyway, we were we were well down that road as some people in the audience and looking at evelyn duffy who is wonderful and worked with us, and we had a lot of conversations with evelyn and with bridget about you know, what do we do if we don't get to talk to the first lady and how is how is that book gonna turn out. so yeah, we were we were heading down that road with her without her. participation well so much richer with her voice and you know, joe biden does not do a lot of interviews and yet she did three with you.

how was she in the interviews? was she pretty forthcoming. she was very forthcoming. she was very welcoming number one when she warmed up to the idea of somebody writing her story at first she was a little reticent about it, you know, like who would be interested in reading about me i think was one of her initial responses, but she agreed to three one hour interviews and she answered all of our questions. there was nothing where she said i'm not gonna answer that or that's off limits. she answered everything everything that we asked her. so tell me you've done this. no one knows more about jill biden in america than you do. you tell me something that you discovered about her or that surprised you something that you think people do not really understand about jill biden. i think there are a few things. i mean one thing that really stood out to me, you know, darlene said she answered all of our questions and that is absolutely true. you know, we she she answered everything nothing was off limits, but one of the things that was really clear when we

came out of these three interviews is that she is very protective of what i sort of think of as the biden family story right? i mean i think to some extent they have shared so much with the world and they've shared so many really personal and difficult moments with the world and i think she sees her role in some ways kind of being the guardrail there like if we're just left up to joe biden it would all be out there and he would you know answer everybody's question and talk about it, you know at great length, and i think she sees herself as the person who sort of says, you know we're just not going to go any further. you know, we're gonna keep a little bit of that back even things, you know, for example, like hunter biden's addiction which is known and and has been public she would say like that's his story to tell right like he should tell that story and i'm gonna keep my perspective on this a bit guarded here. there was just those moments where you could just get the sense from her like she's just not gonna go any further. and again, i do think that is a reaction to having so much else of their life out there to be

analyzed to be scrutinized and really to have, you know to be the public as much as it is theirs darlene. what's surprised you yeah. i had had some prior exposure to jill biden on the white house beat when joe was vice president and she was his wife. they used the term second lady, which i don't like and i try not to use it. so i'd had some prior exposure to her but in reporting for this book one of the things that i learned about her was the extent to which she likes to play practical jokes on people there is a very famous. well, maybe i shouldn't say famous. right, but there's a very funny story where she was traveling when he was vice president and she climbed into the overhead bin on air on the plane. i don't remember if it was her own plane or air force too and sorry for the poor person that came along and opened the bin to try to put their luggage in there. she popped out and you know, you you can imagine how that all went and they're just lots of other stories like that. she one time with one of her

college community college colleagues had gotten the maintenance crew to help her bring in a 50 pound pumpkin and put it on this woman's seat, and the woman came in and had no idea where the pumpkin came from. so that was kind of interesting to me and that's not something that most people would see when you you know, you see joe biden traveling around the country talking about community colleges military families or whatever. she's doing that day. the other one i love is she was doing one of the campaigns. i'm gonna blend all my campaigns together here, but she they had secret service. and already she wanted to go on a run. she's a big runner and she really hated that the secret service agents would run along with her. so she she put on a wig and left their house and started was like, let's see how long it takes them to figure out that it's me and it took him a little while then they caught up and they knew the gag at that point. she seems like such a serious person the whole prankster thing is a little is interesting. i think she's a little irreverent. she is a little irreverent and she also talks a lot about just

always trying to find the joy in life and if you know their story, you know about joe losing his wife his first wife and their baby daughter, you know about the two of them losing their son beau and so she tries to find moments where she can put a smile on someone's face or play a practical joke. here's something you wrote in the book that struck me as interesting and like you to explain a little bit of it you write. dr. jill biden assumed the role of first lady decades later than she originally envisioned. she arrived hardened at times jaded by the harsh realities of american politics in the personal tragedies. her family has endured in the public eye yet. she also stepped into the white house as a symbol of resilience and relatability a woman fiercely protective of her family and her passions and ambitions take the first part first. she arrived hardened and at times jaded to the role of first lady. what did you mean by that? you know one of the things that i that i learned through this

process, you know, i i was not covering the 1980 campaign as a reporter. you know the 88 campaign both biden's went into that campaign. thinking he could really win. you know, he was this young charismatic politician. he was seen as really the future of the democratic party so they go into that campaign with extremely high expectations and she goes into that starting to already think what will life be like if we win if he's in the white house. what am i going to do as first lady so she's her mind is already going down that road. she's thinking about their kids. how are they gonna raise kids? and then it all comes to this crashing halt into in really embarrassing fashion, and i think that experience really is scarring to her because she believes so much in him and she believes so much that he's the right man for that moment. and so she she really i think recoils from the process a little bit and through successive campaigns, you know,

you see her being the one to say no, we're not ready to do this again. nope. it's not your time to do this again by the time they get there again. what i think is really interesting is 2008 where he gets one percent of the vote in iowa. she actually thought that was another moment where he was ready where he where he could win. obviously that doesn't that doesn't happen and in that moment. she has this this sort of realization that people she thought they could count on who had been with him for a long time who had been supporters? maybe go off and support obama, maybe go off and support hillary and their left feeling like, you know, what about joe? where where are you when we need you the most and so i think when she does get into toward to 2020 she is fully aware of the political game. you know, she is she is hardened to the realities of it. she has no illusions about what they're getting into in some ways. i think you're prepares her for the job much more than almost anybody who's had it before but it is a very long process of getting this point. one of the words that she used in our interview to describe her

feeling coming out of the 88 campaign was stinging. she said it's stung and to julie's point. she internalized all of that. she told us at one point about people she didn't name any names but people who had made promises to joe to be there to support him and when they needed those people those people were not there. so again, she's just learned from experience having been a political wife the wife of a senator who kept running and running and running and running took all of that and internalized it and used it to learn from let's talk about the second part of what you wrote in that passage. i read fiercely protective of her family. and you know, that's something that's going to be tested with hunter biden subject of a grand jury now meeting in delaware on tax issues and if republicans gain control of the house are the senate in november and as now seems likely nothing's ever guaranteed in politics, but now

likely it is all but certain that they will launch investigative hearings into hunter biden and his uncle jimmy biden the president's brother. what does jill biden think? about those controversies involving her her son hunter and the prospect of really brutal investigations ahead. you know, it's interesting because the family had discussions going into the 2020 campaign about what this would mean for them. and even before we got to the point where hunter was under investigation, you know, there were certainly elements of his past that they knew were going to be put into the spotlight and they decided as a family that they were ready to move forward that they were okay with that that they again kind of knew that that was gonna be part of the process. i'm not sure they fully understood exactly what this was going to look like and certainly i don't think anticipated that we could end up in a situation where the second half of the presidency could you know have this backdrop this shadow of

actual investigations. so, you know what that portends for them both politically but also as a family, i think it's part of the legacy that will unspool itself in the next couple of months and i think she you know for as she is i think hardened to the reality of politics. she's still a mom, you know, and i think it hurts her and she talks about this, you know, it does hurt her. it causes her great pain to watch one of her children, you know be put through the wringer in the way that that he has. yeah, it'll be very interesting to see how they deal with it. i mean right now there are lots of questions that come to the white house about hunter biden during the daily press briefings and you've seen the answer as you know hunter doesn't work for the government. i don't speak for hunter, but if if the elections in november go the way that most people think they will they will have to figure out how to deal with it and how to respond to all of that. i think that hunter bear some responsibility for the pickles in or does she think as some of the family of said that it's not

his fault. he's an addict this was his addiction talking not him unfair to hold him responsible. what's her view? certainly in the conversations that we had with her and i think the conversations we had with people around them. i don't think that they feel like he bears responsibility. i think they understand you know, he has addictions and he has struggled publicly. they also understand that maybe the optics of some of what he did in ukraine or maybe in china during the the obama administration or problematic, but they never really get past that point. it's optics. it's you know, it was a bad look it was you know it maybe we shouldn't have maybe maybe shouldn't have been doing that but they really they're very protective again, you know, i think i think again my takeaway from it is as much as this is a story that is in the public sphere as much as this is something that is being picked apart for them. it's also very personal. he is their son and i think that they they are going to defend him, you know, they are gonna defend him i think till the end truly darlene. how does what does jill biden

think about the press corps? that's a good question. i've never asked her that. what is your sense? she seems very. tolerant of the press i've traveled with her a couple of times. she usually has a press pool traveling with her. she will come back to the back of the plane at the beginning or the end of trips and do a little bit of chit chat, but i have not seen any, you know outright disdain for the press the way we have seen in prior administrations, and she's you know, she she has been in the public eye for a long time and was the wife of a vice president the wife of a long time senator. so dealing with the press is not something that's new to her in the way. it has been for other first ladies, you know, it's interesting you mentioned how prepared she was for this role of first lady. i think of first ladies in modern times the only other person with similar preparation was barbara bush who also had served eight years in the role

call second lady had been the wife of a member of congress somebody who had run for office over and over again. there's no definition. like there's nothing there's nothing there's no job definition. there's no paycheck that comes with it. did joe biden arrive in the white house with a clear idea about what she wanted to do in this role? absolutely. because again, she had been thinking about being first lady during those previous campaigns that never went anywhere so she had an idea of what she wanted to do and even before she became first lady. she took some steps to resurrect the military families initiative that she had worked on with michelle obama, and she knew that she would have a platform to promote those issues cancer research education those types of issues that she's worked on her whole life. i also think one of the things that was really important to her was to come in and continue to

work and you know, it's funny for those of us who are you know famil? with the biden story if you know anything about jill biden, you probably know she's a teacher and i think something i was struck by is. it's not a stick, you know, she's a real teacher, you know, she actually goes to the classroom her schedule as first lady is really dictated actually by her teaching schedule her travel is built around that the events are built around that her staff really fiercely guards that time on her calendar. our interview schedule was built around her teaching schedule, you know, that is very much, you know part of her identity and i think she came into the job wanting to make sure that she could retain that not just for herself though. i think it is very important to her personally but to set a new standard that you can be first lady you can be a political spouse and you can retain this independent part of your life because you didn't run for office, right? you're not paid you're not you're not an elected official and so she's trying to make clear that you can support your spouse. you can do the sort of ceremonial aspects of the job

and still do something that you're really passionate about and that you carried into that job. no first lady has ever done that. nope. she's the first working first lady. yeah. well, they're all working. let's work it outside the white house outside the white house an independent career that she had before that she gets a paycheck for that has been obviously so important to her even though some people said she can't do that when she's in the white house. it's important to her that people refer to her as dr. jill biden. why are those things so important to her? well, she also taught when joe was vice president and being able to do that with all of those duties that she had back then as secondly i made you say i know. she felt strongly that she could do it as first lady and she often says teaching is not something that i do teaching is who i am. it's it's really about who she is and she has also throughout

her entire life or at least throughout her marriage to joe wanted to maintain a separate identity, right? she didn't want to just be known as joe biden or have her life be consumed by his senate career. she wanted to keep her own identity keep this career. i mean she was teaching when they started dating got married and those are some of the reasons why it's it's very important to her. and i think she's also carved out this real community for herself at nova which is where she taught when she was secondly and continued actually after they left washington. she would commute down here and from from delaware to keep teaching and she's found this community there, you know, nova is a very diverse community college a lot of immigrant students. are there a lot of people who are really trying to make a new life for themselves in this country. she's found a particular affinity for women has spent a lot of time with women from afghanistan. there's a large afghan

population at the school. so, you know in some ways it's this whole other, you know, again this whole other identity this whole other community that she has and i think what will be really interesting is whether it's you know, four years or eight years in the white house is whether she continues with that, you know after they're out of their out of office and one of the point that i would add about the teaching, is that she also told us that the teaching has helped her get through some of those tougher times in her life. particularly bose death back in 2015, because when she goes to the classroom, she's a teacher her students knowhurst dr. b. she can compartmentalize and push out. sad stuff that's going on in her life and focus on being their teacher and then once she leaves the classroom, of course, she goes home to all those other things, but it's it's another way for it was another way for her to to get through some of life's difficulties. you said that she came here came into this role with a clear idea about what she wanted to do, but

it's been tough. there's been the pandemic a lot of her she has great personal. in our abilities to interact with people that's been hard to do during covid. does she feel like she has succeeded in doing what it was she wanted to do in this job. i would say yes and i say yes because she also has said that being first lady she recognizes the platform and she doesn't want to waste a minute of it. she's also said that she wants to do anything. she can to help her husband help the administration. most of her first year was spent as most of the administrations first year was spent on covid the response to covid traveling around the country trying to get people to take their vaccinations their booster shots vaccinate their kids. so on and so forth. so i think knowing what i know about her i think in that vein her doing all of all that she did in that first year to help

with the covid response. she would say, yeah, she's she's doing what she wanted to do and in between there she did. go to military bases and promote military family issues. she did visit community colleges and talk about education. she did a little work on the cancer research. so she was able to do that i think and and more one thing that i think will be interesting is we get toward the end of this tenure, you know part of why they decided to run and it really was both of them decided to run was, you know, they looked at the country during the trump administration and not only did they feel like trump was was really breaking so many norms and and pushing the guardrails, you know in a way that felt was unacceptable, but they just felt like the polarization in the country the contention in the country had reached that this this really unhealthy and potentially dangerous point. i don't think that at this point she could look and say we've rolled that back right having joe in office, you know, joe biden who uncle joe the guy with the aviator is you know, that has really kind of cooled tensions.

i don't think they could say that at this point and i and know if in two years two and a half years if they will be able to say we succeeded on that measure does. jill biden's work in standing effect joe biden's presidency that's a good question, you know. i think that first ladies in general, you know, they serve they serve a purpose in terms of humanizing the president right in terms of you know, that sort of little intangible. do i just like the guy and it's all it's all been guys so far, you know, do i just like that person? i think that is one of the things you know, she does bring some element of that i think to him i think when they are together when they're with the grandkids, you know, i think there's this feeling that people still have like they seem like a nice family. so i think in that respect she is helpful. i just sort of wonder if we're at this point where we are, you know, we're sort of past the idea that she or or any kind of factor like that could really move the needle. but also anything that a first

lady does is not supposed to take away from the president's agenda or what they're trying to accomplish someone we interviewed for the book said whatever first lady does is supposed to be value-added and at this point she hasn't done anything controversial. she hasn't worn a jacket with a message on the back or high heels to go on a disaster trip, you know those kinds of things that prompted a lot of controversy, right? so in that vein, she's she's okay, so times you need to do something controversial to get attention to get something done to shake things up. not joe, but not joe. i i just yeah, i don't think i don't think she sees that as her. i think the you know, the furthest almost she got out there was when they were negotiating at you know, the build back better initiative and she was really pushing for a community college funding and she was pretty vocal about it and he was pretty vocal about it and and it didn't go anywhere.

does she weigh in with him or with others when it comes to actual policy decisions in the administration? i would say she probably does because most first ladies we've come to know they do that behind the scenes when they're alone at night over. she let she likes to have candlelight dinner with joe, so they're probably talking some policy between the twinkle's of the candles and i think on education in particular, you know, she's very passionate about teacher pay. she's very passionate about community college access so that in particular i think is a place where she will weigh in i think it is less likely that she is weigh in on, you know, the intricacies of you know, negotiating with putin or arming the ukrainians, right? you know, i interviewed jill biden in 2012. she had a book that came on a children's book and this was at a point where the conventional wisdom. was that joe biden his moment had. he was not going to run for

president again, and i said that tour and she said don't be so sure. she said never say never and it heard this response really surprised me because it was at odds with the direction. everybody else was going. what do you what do you make of that in her her attitude toward his campaigns. is she been more on board than the, you know, kind of the conventional senses lots. lots of times. the spouses are less enthused about campaigns. it's really depended on which campaign you're talking about. you know again if you go back to 1988 she was a real force in in wanting him to run. she really believe that this was this this moment. 2004 adamantly opposed to it and probably rightly, you know, so at that point the one campaign where i do think, you know her political sensibilities prove to be off is 2008. she feels like you know, he is a leader in the democratic party on foreign relations. it's a campaign that is going to be you know, really centered on the future of the iraq war.

she feels like you know while he voted for the war. he now opposes it and he's been a forceful voice there. she really sees a path forward for him and when you think about it in retrospect you think how could you have thought that joe biden was gonna trump hillary clinton or you know, barack obama or and at that time john edwards and that campaign, so i think her her political antenna in that campaign is the most off. if you go to 2016 and 2020 those i think are the two really most interesting moments for her because 2016 and i see josh letterman who we were sitting in our white house booth during that campaign trying to figure out you know, where the biden family was. she's the one who literally says we write about this in the book. she literally says as advisors are putting, you know timelines in front of them and you know, here's here's how late you can get in. here's when we're gonna have to be hitting these fundraising deadlines. she literally says, we're not ready. you know bo has just died, you know, we're not ready and she has to vocalize that almost for him. he can't really say it himself.

he can't get himself to the point of walking away. she plays that really important role, but then you fast forward to 2020 and conventional wisdom again is he's too old the party is too liberal. the party has moved too far to the left and she is actually one of the most forceful voices behind the scenes say no this this actually is your time so, you know her evolution and the role she plays in those campaigns i find to be really fascinating her answer to you. never say never i would say shows how much she learned during all those campaigns right because a good no good politician will close the door to anything. right? and so i think she learned that over over the years and over all those campaigns that she worked on with joe that you know, you don't close the door just yet. don't shut it tight. so that's maybe a lesson i should learn myself. i'll work on that. does she want him to run for reelection in two years? darlene that's a great question

susan. if he wants to i think she'll be there behind him. yes, and i think it also gets to what darlene was saying, you know once you close that door. you're a lame duck. you know, you're you're irrelevant. so i think they will leave that door open publicly at least as long as possible. we have so many great reporters here that i think we should go to questions if you could line up at the microphone so that you'll be recorded for eternity on youtube and and c-span. that would be great. and while you're filing up there to ask some questions. let me just ask you did she have any advice on being the spouse of the vice president that she gave to the second gentleman. she did and i am trying to remember what exactly it was.

she did take doug mhoff under her wing a little bit and just you know, try to tell him like, you know. savor the moments that sort of thing. it's a lot easier when you're in that role than when you're president or first lady because all the attention is on you of course a lot of attention is just because he's blazing a trail in this new role, but she did try to help a little bit in the beginning and and she's also helped him with some of the teaching. you know, she's also teaching. he's teaching now at georgetown law school. so there are areas where they do commiserate and i think you know, there's part of of that relationship. you know, she and michelle obama had quite a close relationship, you know, they didn't know each other they kind of got to know each other a little bit on the campaign trail, but they actually developed a real friendship in the two couples really did and i think there's there's part of the bidens that you know wants to have that with with harris and mhoff too. they want to have that kinship not quite sure. they're they're completely in the same way and but i think

there's part of her that wants to you know, have have a partner. seriously, you're going to be embarrassed. if no one will step up there and ask your question. look. curious do the multi-part question too. that's the ap way. i love it. digging it all you know there have been some who speculated maybe if he would have run their would have been a president trump the course of history could have been changed and darlene. i i just love from your perspective of covering several first. ladies where you think history will judge her and also, what's the problem with the second lady thing? like, what's the beef you have with that? so on 2016 it's interesting because you know she talks and and you we talked about about this with her after. clinton loses everywhere they go, you know people are coming up to them saying oh, you should have run you should have run and

i do think it gets into your head a little bit where you start to think. maybe we should have run. at the same time. i think that she as much as anybody acknowledges. i mean, they really were not emotionally ready. you know bo had just died. i think they they really did not feel like he could go through that or that the family could put themselves through that and obviously it works out in the in the end, but i do think, you know can be a little bit heady when people are everywhere you go she talks about being it the little supermarket, you know that they would go to in delaware and people walk up to i wish you would run you could have you could have beat trump do they get kind of sticks in your head and i'm sure that that also influences the eventual decision to run in 2020. um, where will history rank her do think i think? she will be remembered for being an active first lady. it's a little hard to talk legacy right now, i think because there's still so much time ahead in the administration than has passed, but she's been very active one of the most active first ladies in recent

years just with a travel schedule that rivals the president's schedule. so there's that and then the second lady thing goes back to an editor of mine who didn't like it and i also didn't like it because i just thought it was like seconds, right? who's the editor we have to know now, but it's now become a thing and they've all adopted it. so it's second gentleman at second lady. so i'm going to be stuck with that for a long time. the editor is someone who couldn't be here tonight. terry hunt a long time white house correspondent. go ahead. well, he's congratulations to both of you. this is thanks josh one of the relationships that's attracted a lot of intrigue. is that between jill biden and the president's sister valerie and they're sort of dueling roles as like the rock in this family that has gone through so much tragedy. so just curious about what you picked up about the dynamic and any kind of like competition between them and you know, it's interesting because the biden family has a lot of strong

women, you know, i think joe and and certainly the sons have gotten a lot of attention, but actually, you know, joe's mother is a really influential figure in his life a lot of a lot of stories that he tells about his his mother and his sister, you know is is a close family member and a key political advisor and there's this moment that she talks about with us when joe has his brain and your ism and that's where i think the dynamic starts to shift a little bit where jill, you know, she is the wife in that moment and he is her husband and he is ailing and that's where she kind of steps up and plays, you know, the role of the wife and and his sister and his mother, you know, don't get to make the decisions there and i think it transforms the relationship ultimately in a positive way, but it's just establishes her as you know, she is the matriarch of that part of the biden family and i think it kind of resets the relationship in a way that probably is a little bit healthier going

forward, but they they do, you know to this day they retain this incredibly close relationship, but that to me was a moment that really stood out. yeah and in the book joe's in the hospital and the whole family's there and jill is sort of sitting off to the side while the rest of the family is talking and debating and trying to figure out medical treatment and making all these decisions and it's almost as if she has this out of body experience where she stops herself jill and realize is wait a second. that's my husband. that's my decision to make and then joe's mom agrees with her and then they all let jill make the decisions about his medical care. there's also some other another story that she told us about her time with valerie, which was that in the beginning. she was very intimidated by valerie, but they have since the relationship has evolved over the years where valerie used to help her with her speeches when she would go out to campaign for joe and iowa and stuff like

that. so they're now what's the word i'm looking for. they're not cool, you know families are complicated right and in this family you had a job biden's first wife killed valerie biden stepping up moving into the household really acting as a kind of a surrogate mother to the two little boys and then he marries jill biden who then takes a while. that's that has to be a complicated maneuver for the women involved not to mention for the kids. we can absolutely was i think on the one hand everyone, you know, everyone you talk to who is sort of around at that time talks about just the positive impact that jill had on the family on joe. you kind of pulling him out of this really low moment in his life. you know the boys who are young at the time but again the biden family, you know, they when there's a crisis the biden family sort of like closes in on you and so they did that for joe and for the boys and then in steps jill and i think it does

kind of shake up the dynamic of it. what's your relationship like with what was was a relationship like with bow and what is like with with hunter? they had a great relationship. she talked a lot to us about how bo was the protective. one he was very protective of her when they grow were growing up. and of course the boys also took to her and me almost immediately. they were kind of longing for some sort of a mother figure even though valerie was there in their lives and it's actually the boys who went to joe at one point in time and said, you know, we think we should marry jill not you should marry jill but we think we should marry jill and she described hunter as being affectionate and she had seen early on his promise as an artist, which is something that we're seeing now, which is again, you know, putting him in the spotlight, but she had a great relationship with both of them and she still does hunter biden was at the white house on monday for the easter egg roll and he was going around

glad-handing people and introducing himself and just, you know, working working the rope so to speak and go ahead well. congratulations. thank you susan. congratulations, julie and darlene looking forward to reading the book. you've described jill. as a really fierce advocate for her husband's best interest. and i was interested in both of your sort of laughing hesitation to answer directly the question. about re-election if she felt that it was not in his best interest to continue to try to be president would she be in a voice to tell him not to do it? i definitely think so. yes, i do too because again i go back to the 2016 example right where i think you know if he had been left to his own devices. i think he probably would have moved forward with it. i think he felt like it was a moment. why not me. i'm the vice president even though we've had this family tragedy when the kids impulse would have been to to push

forward and she was the one who was saying. no, i don't think you are ready for this. i don't think we as a family are ready for this so, you know my read if you kind of extrapolate from that as if she felt like it was not in his best interest if she felt like it would cause him harm in some way now, i think that's different than if she thinks you know, he might lose right. i think that's a different question. but i think if she thought it was not in his best interest. i do think she would be a voice and perhaps the only voice that would really matter and that situation. do you have a sense of whether she thinks that kamala harris would would be able to take that mantle the million dollar question, isn't it? i know i don't i don't i mean that dynamic is one that you know, i think you know, i don't think we got as much insight into as we would have liked. it's a fascinating dynamic but that is the million dollar question, you know, if if it's not him, who is it and you you're obvious, you know your gaze turns to the vice president, of course. of course his experience with

his as vice president was not that obama weighed in to try to determine who would succeed him, please. go ahead. hello, laura. congratulations. hi. thank you. congratulations on your book our lighter question. we know that dr. biden does like to be called dr. biden. how does she feel about the title of your book? that is a good question when we interviewed her she wanted to be referred to as gel she was she was pretty casual. i would say and she always is she if she tells people to call her gel. she tells reporters to call her jill. she tells perfect strangers to call her jill. she walks into rooms and says hi. i'm jill not hi. i'm the first lady, but hi, i'm jill. and so i think i like the title you wanted to know how she feels about the title, but i'm gonna tell you why i like the title because the purpose of the book is to try to introduce the public to this woman who is now serving as first lady someone who is now getting her moment in

the spotlight after years of kind of almost being behind the scenes, right and so because she wants people to call her jill. i think it's the perfect title for the book. wellness i mean there was a big little i should say contra top around this issue early in the administration about you know, so i forget who it was in the wall street journal twitter administration. it was during the transition and that was one lonely voice out there who was being said again. yeah. so do you think she gets a bad rap on this front? no, she went to school. she studied. she got her masters her bachelors her doctorate. she earned it. so yeah embrace it and she does. please go ahead. congratulations, first of all, thank you, and i'm always interested in how reporters. right while they still working so that's a little bit about the

the writing process of the book. and also a second question coming from my professor side. talk a little bit about how the perception is that you're writing about someone that you may have to cover. is there objectivity issues here moving forward? i mean, i'll take that last part first darling and i felt very strongly and then basically every conversation we had about the book with each other with sources with others with her office. we made very clear that this was a reported biography that we were reporting this that there was we didn't collaborate with her office. we were not this was not you know, the authorized, you know biography of jill biden. this was a reported project and we don't you know, it got almost to the point where we we just kept inserting it into every conversation because we just wanted to make sure you know to your point darlene has to go and cover the first lady, you know every day and and she's gonna do it in an objective way. and so that's it's important to us to make sure that people know

that again, it's not a collaboration with their office, you know on the writing process. i would say we had a really great team and again evelyn duffy who's just incredible and bridgit who's somewhere around here and all of our team at little brown. i mean it is just you know this i think this was my first book that i worked. it is a team effort in a major way and and we really couldn't have done it without them. it also involved a lot of late nights. we were doing, you know, edits and rewrites, you know deep into the middle of the night while doing our day jobs. i don't necessarily recommend. you padding in our day jobs? say it's like the preferred way to do it, but it was it was a it was a it was a crunch for sure. was there anything that she wanted you to take out of the book or not include in the book? no, she answered all of our

questions and there was nothing that she said to us was off limits or anything like that. so we took everything she gave us everything we gathered from all of our reporting all the interviews we did and poured it into this baby. have you ever seen her mad? no, but i know of times when she was mad. when was she mad the exam did we talk about the example with the priest and the hospital? we did not. okay. so this goes back to the 87 campaign and it's after he drops out with after the plagiarism allegations, and then it's discovered that he has a brain aneurysm and he's in the hospital and we did talk about this briefly a moment ago and so he's in the hospital. and she she is trying to line up childcare for her kids trying to find beau trying to find hunter and then she goes back to the hospital one day and outside of joe's.

hospital room there is a nurse sitting at a table doing charts or something. and so she's just trying to go in and the woman stops her and says, oh no you can't go in there and jill says, but my husband is in there and the nurse tells her no, you can't go in there because they're giving him last rights, and she just and she storms into the room and yells at the priests. get out. get out. oh my god, and and the priest just like collects his things and runs out of room. at why did she react so to that i think because just having a priest standing over your husband administering last rights kind of sends the message that the end is coming and she didn't want to believe that she didn't want joe to believe that and yeah, so that's why. so, let me ask one last question. what do you think now that you know jill biden so well and have

written this wonderful interesting book, which i'm sure everyone will buy certainly everyone in this room will buy. what is most what is misunderstood about or what is about jill by and do people just get wrong? you know, i think people don't understand or or they don't know she's actually really interesting. you know, she's kind of again this sort of unknown. first lady is known unknown character. i think frankly people might think she's a little bland, you know, she doesn't have this sort of compelling narrative. she's not you know, the model like melania was she's actually really fascinating and and a little snarky and a little irreverent has kind of this great sense of humor. she's kind of the type of person you might like to go have a glass of wine with she's she's just interesting and i know that may sound basic but i think that like that is a misunderstood thing that she's an interesting

person. also a good thing when you're doing a biography, that should be interesting darlene. what do you think people get maybe get wrong about her i think people that think about jill biden probably just think of her as a teacher when there are so many more layers to who she is and that doesn't always come across or come through and first ladies i think in general are usually underestimated and they're all at least the ones that i've covered have all been fascinating in their own ways. so that's what i think people just see her as a teacher. what does she think about your book? we don't know. yes yet. we're okay with that. well, we think your book is great. thank you for writing it and thank you all for >> we think your book is great. thank you for writing it and thank you all for coming here tonight. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming. [applause] >> here's a look at what's coming up on the c-span networks. live at 10 a.m. eastern on

c-span the senate banking committee talks about the impact of the housing market is having on renters and communities around the country. live at 2:30 p.m. i hearing on the future of wireless communications and the fcc auction of the radio frequencies that wireless signals use. on c-span2 a look at the economic injury disaster loan program and the decision to stop processing applications in may. that's live at 10 a.m. at 12 p.m. the senate gavels in to continue work on judicial nominations. everything also streams live on the free c-span nobody wrap or online at c-span.org. >> if you are enjoying booktv then sign up for newsletter using the qr code on the screen. to receive the schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals and more. booktv every sunday on c-span2 or anytime online at booktv.org.

television for. television for serious readers. >> and now one booktv's author interview program at "after words" political consultant kellyanne conway the first woman to manage a winning presidential race shares insights into the 2016 campaign and her time of the trump administration. she's interviewed by donna brazile. "after words" is weekly interview program with relevant guest hosts interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. >> kellyanne conway, best-selling author, political strategist. for a decade you have been up poster to our political leaders, our corporate leaders, nonprofits. you have been in the limelight and spotlight, but all of the sudden you decided to write a book. what prompted you to tell your story? >> and you do something in my bio. big fan of donna brazile. thank you for any me