each week.

american history tv's american artifacts visits, museums and historic places and up next, we travel to philadelphia's independence national historical park, learn about congress hall. the meeting place of the u.s. house and senate between 1790 and 1800. our guide is park ranger matthew ifill. we are standing in the old house of■tvfa building that we call congress hall, although originally it was built as a courthouse for philadelphia for most of its history, that's exactly what it wa years that ty of washington, d.c. is being built, philadelphia serves as our temporary us. this room serves for the house of representatives. the second floor of the building that we'll see in a moment was the united states senate, the house of representatives. chresentative at that in our history represented 30,000 people. we had a population at our first census of about three and three quarters million. we had 106 members of the house

we would sit in this room and eventually from 16 states and the story as the us capitol the story where we're taking a new and actually offer it doing things like adding new states to the original 13 also. so the bill of would become a part our constitution while philadelphia was the capitol in fact the secretary of state thomas jefferson would formally announce amendments to the constitution in by basically■i coming congress here in this building and officially announcing that changed our constitution which of course the bill of rights is a huge part of our history and will be in the future. continuing talking point our political but also i■>t's amendment process itself proving that that part of the constitution works that we can update and make changes to that tes without having to start completely over again from the beginning.

but really for this building it's it's to a large degree it's sort ocreapolitical system, they system that we know today is going to begin and it's going to begin with issues much you would expect early issues that we'd face as the united states would be debt. we had debt and spending arguments and debates in this il it's not any different except for, you know, the details as to what we do today in washington, d.c. we argued about debt from the revolutionary war, our early government, alexander hamilton, the secretary wanted all the debt from the states to come to the federal and then to use that debt, paying it off to build for the young united states and. not everybody agreed with his plans. so you start seeing division and, then foreign policy questions would arise and france go to war. the 1790s and a lot of americans would feel like we owed france they helped us in our war. still don't like the british

very much but for george washington the notion of neutrality is preferable don't really have any money. we didn't really have a navy at all and our army not much to speak of. so we certainly weren't in a position to go and fight a war. certainly not in europe and probably even fighting in, britn those days. so. so he's going to present with cabinet approval a neutrality proclamation which starts again divide us into this question of ought we be doing more to help france now, the same notion of ke■ing us out of george washington will send john j, who was at that time our first chief justice of the supreme, send him to btainri to ne9f3gotiate a new treaty with the british and again, with the idea of keeping us of this european war and settling some those questions of border and ocean rights and such, that we were arguing with the british john jay had been on

the team that negotiated the peace treaty that ended the revolutionary war so he seemed like a good candidate for washington to send while treaty that he brought back becomes ■5very controversial and really one of the tipping points creating these two parties as sort of leading to what we know today. the treaty is basically starts becoming publicly attacked in the press at the press of the what would become the democratic republican party the party of men like thomas and james madison would start vilifying this treaty. now what's interesting is nobody's actually read it. it hasn't been published, but yet it's going to pilloried in the press the point where an awful lot of hate this treaty that they don't actually know anything. the federalist side this is the side of the john adams and the alexander hamilton's is in fav the treaty they're in favor of kind of building the young economy of the united states,

staying out of a war, trading all sides in europe, not being, france, something like this. so we're really seeing this treaty kind of a symbolic head point between these two sides and the senate approves the treaty. now, according to the constitution, senate treaties, and they're done now the problem is the house representatives, this is our first treaty ever. the house of representatives basically says we want a chance to discuss this treaty. well and so they demand washington to see all the papers. he says, no, you in the senate approves it. you guys don't have anything do with it. so what the house essentially is going to do is they say, well, maybe what we'll try to take away the funding. we won't pay for this treaty. anything that has to be paid, we'll just not spend the money therefore the will effectually die at this point time.

so that's not necessarily a new strategy that you see with things in washington, d.c. today so so the big fight in the house of representatives in this room is or not to pay for this treaty and there's days of debates and on the day there's a big crowd in our public balcony. you have men like vice president john adams supreme court justices sitting the balcony and. the big this is of course an era where we love our speeches, political rhetoric and the best speaker of the time is a man named fisher ames is a federalist. he is definitely this treaty to survive. but he's been ill. he hasn't said anything. and of course, this last day, everyone's waiting to see if he'll make the last statement about it. anh's sort begins by saying, well, if my strength can hold out, i'd like to say a few words on the subject. he proceeds to speak for over an hour. i think it's about five pages in the congressional record speech. he collapses at the into his

sleep, but he talked about the last war that we fought with the british and if people remembered all the devastation. do we really want to do this again? fight another war, four years and you know apparently men some the men have tears in their eyes and when he finally finishes, it's supreme cou to vice president john adams and says, my, isn't that man great? and says, yes, indeed he is. so the treaty willnd passing by just a couple of votes at one point. there is, a committee of the whole vote, head of the coittee of thenamed, frederick o was our first speaker of the house. and he breaks the tie. now he, is ostensibly on the demoatic, the jeffersonian side. so he should be against the treaty. but he's that maybe not going to war is a good idea so he he ends up to pass the bill for the funding of this treaty and he is vilified he is that he he voted

for this treaty against his■ se to the point where he loses his and his next election to congress. but even worse in the short term, he is stabbed on the sidewalks of philadelphia by his brother in law his vote he survives. but i'm sure family gatherings become a little awkward after a while. but it tells us how high our political tensions can be in our early days. yet yet at the same time, we're also proving that that new constitution, despite these sort ofbecause probably the best in this room's history in a lot of ways is the day john adams is inaugurated at the front by the speaker of the house, his platform. he will stand on that platform with thomas jefferson also at front of the room, outgoing president george. now, this is a big deal changing presidents for today is a fairly normal thing. we have big parades and parties andt's you know, it's a big thing. but this was a really important because this is where we are

proving that the system where we the voters elect our leaders and we change them when we vote we're proving that that system works because the johnlot of f's the first time we're going to not george washington as our president. george washington is the only man to unanimously elected president, which he was twice. he did not particularly for office at the end of his first term. he didn't even want a second term. he was kind of talked intot almn both sides. talk him into another four years. he doesn't really run. he's unanimously reelected at the end of that second term, people try talk him into a third, but he's not having it. he just wants to retire at this in time. it's somebody else's turn. so he will step aside. john adams now we know if this works, we've never done before, we've never actuallyhanged our presidents. so will the people. this we don't know the other thing to remember is john adams

was contested in his election. he actually had to fight a battle against. his opponent, who was thomas jefferson, these two had been friends. obviously, they wrote the declaration of independence together. now opposite sides of, the fence. they don't even want to talk to each other. so the is very ugly. it's very nasty. it's very close. it's sort of for us day a normal presidential election. john adams wins by three electoral votes. so only slightly more than half. now, we've never h a the votes. we've never had president who had to really fight for an election. and of course, the other problem ome in second, you are vice, which means the new president is one party. the new vice president is the party. just pick an modern you like. put the two opponents together for four years as the executive and you can see how neither of them would be particularly happy. so john adams and thomas jefferson are not happy to be standing up in the front of the room together. this is a full house. that day, the balcony seats.

you've got most of the here a curious ity but you can also figure about half of the men in this room are not very happy see john adams standing up the other half of the men in the room are not very to see thomas jefferson standing up there. and generally speaking, nobody's very happy that george washington is leaving us in this. so, john would kind of look around the room and see lot of people who weren't very happy. he'd see people with almost tears in their eyes that washingt was leaving them and he kind of would later say that as he looked around, he only saw one person that day who particularlygeorge washington had a look on his face that said, john adams, you are fairly in and i am fairly out. so so now let's find out who's the happier on day but washington would quietly go private life and i think very happily withdrawal the scene ad himself be inaugurated he would a difficult presidency because now really we're seeing the throes of political fighting

going on but. it happened peacefully. we proved that constitution worked and we proved that we could continue in times of difficulty like this, that we continue forward with the system in place in 1800, they would leave this building, move to the current capital dc. adams and jefferson would have another difficult election at that. this time jefferson winning and he would be the first president inaugurated in the new capital ofob washington. but these years in philadelphia are setting the tone for the rest of our early history and all the way up to today. so the room itself will start out as a courthouse. sos courtroom. but around the time this building finished construction, it's actually being built during the constitut■(l ention. so when they're finished, construct seven is around the time that philadelphia offers it to the us government. i think secret hope is that if

we're really nice to them they' city along the potomac. so they them their new courthouse building and they end up actually expanding it congre. we think the set up looks like this. we actually have a seating chart from one session ofon the and all. we don't have any of the desks that have survived we're fortunate that we do have some of the chairsoday unfortunately we only have about 30 of them between the two houses of congress and most of them we don't know necessarily house they were in so today. all of our original chairs are in the senate for this room. as far as original items goes, the chair on the platform for the speaker of the house is, an original. we actually have three chairs exactly like that we don't necessarily which was which, but we have one today that we assume was the speaker of the house, one for the vice president as president, the senate, and the

third for the chief justice of the supreme. now, we don't again know which one is which. so what we can fairly say is that somebody important sat in that chair for the s the speaker of the house or not, we're not sure. but as far as this room went in the early 1800s, when the went to become a courthouse again. fact this was divided into two rooms for a long number of they built a hallway down the middle so they could have two courtrooms instead of one very even about the time of the first world war, the city this block and moved to our current city hall and and the city recognizing the historic value of these buildings, has some e and they kind of want to turn them to museum space. so if you'd visited this building in the years around would have seen building or the room rather restored back to the big single room that it would have but it would have just been

a room filled with old stuff kind of the old fashioned sort of museum after world war two, when the national park service comes in to take over the historic buildings here again, goal is to try to get them back to how they looked in those important days. so that's where we try to study, how did they have the seating t have one chart that we've been able to find one of the members drew showing who was sitting where at least for one snapshot of a session of congress. ■j■txwe have some, you know, enh sketches and all that show the platform for the speaker of the house we have enough original iture that we can sort of match up things that were we think were here unfortunately a lot of the items that were here if the city needed them like kept using them desks not so much so didn't save things the government might have owned. for example, the library of congress started in this building. they started buying books. congress here in philadelphia wasn't the library of congress as we know it today, but it does

begin here. but a lot of the things that went to washington, dc are burned. when washington is burned, the war of 1812. we lose a lot of those early things. so so that's that's one of the challenges with a building like this is you don't necessarily have all things but you try to make do the best can to to give people that to see them of what it looked like when men like james madison, young andrew jackson were sitting in this room as members of the house of ■zrepresentatives. well, they were in the chamber here at congress hall in, philadelphia, the room, as you can see, is quite a bit more grand than the house of representatives would have been. there's there's a couple of reasons for that our roots as a nation go back to when we were british. of course, british have a parliament with houses, an upper house, the house of lords, the lower house, the house commons. and there's definitely parallels with our congress today.

the of representatives is very similarly set up to the house of commons and then the senate obviously we're not to havesed dukes and earls and noble titles like that, but where we have states, every state is equal in the senate. so the states kind of take the place of our house of lords and our senate. so the british, you know, often using that green color in government, the colonies would use it and then into the american government. but the red would kind of be much more of that house of lords kind of color. so you're goingn philadelphia and different has that kind of look to it that seems a bit on higher end now the intereing thing about the senate is they are created with a bit more power. the power is a tie to the president and that the house of representatives does not have treaties in the united states are with the advice and consent the senate approved by the advice and consent of the

senate. so the senate has to approve all treaties. the house does not the senate. and so there's one power also any time the president makes a t ambassador, supreme court course those. folks would have to come in front the senate a senate, reje. and so here, philadelphia, we have our very first treaty approved by the treaty that led to the big fight in the house of representative over whether or not to pay for it. but over that same issue, we have t first rejection of a presidential nominee by the senate. john rutledge who is actually a signer of the us constitution, one of the players in creating that constitu position is one of washington first choices for the original six justices on the supreme accepts but then resigns. the post without ever really having served on the supreme court. he will later become the chief

justice of the south carolina supreme court. when john jay, who was the first united states court chief justice, resignenew york, he leaves the post of chief justice. that leaves it empty washington will eventually tapnedge of sou. rutledge will come back to philadelphia this time and actually serve as chief justice. however, he is appointed during a of congress. and so technically senate hasn't confirmed him, but he actually as session of the court as chief and leads them through some s when the senate comes back later that year to return to session they then take up the question of approving john d anyone rejected that he's appointed so this has never happened in our youngest. well john rutledge has a couple of thing going against him. number one, there are guys in the senate that think the guy's a little crazy he's definitely had some kind of strange things that he's had to say at

different times in the years of the 1790. so he's a bit of a kind of reputation amongst some people, but also where he's going to get le is he made some pointed comments about. that treaty that was negotiated by his predecessor, he was criticaln some speeches and they tended to be a bit sort of rambling speeches. he was very critical. some of the things he said about the senate, which, of course, senators would read the newspapers and they would read what the south carolina supreme court chief justice had to say about them. and when he actually came in front of them, they would remember these sorts of things and then they would decide then that perhaps this guy is not the best to be the chief justice of the supreme court. they even though he'd actually run the court for a little while, he was kind, sent packing and back home. so the very first rejection of a so, again, here in philadelphia, you're seeing the constitution in a lot of different directions, being explored and usedor through

history and you see other occurrences. this happens now. the one other power, the supreme court or of the senate, rather, that's not going get exercised here in philadelphia, is the power of impeaching. if the president is house wouln impeachment. the senate be basically the jury in what is essentially a■s trial to decide whether or not the president should be removed. office so yeah again you look at the powers of the senate and you see these things that they can do that tie to the presideningce give them that little bit of extra advantage over the house of represents plus they're a smaller body of with only two senators per state you represent an entire state which if you're from a large state means represent an awful lot of people. finally, the other thing about the senate that makes it a bit unique is you get that longer term, the longest elected term in the united states with six

year term. but early on, senators were not even elected. senators are appointed on the basis of the constitution. originally senators are appointed by their state legislature. for office. do not have so as a result, here in philadelphia met in private. they did not meet in public. the house of representatives always did. so the house was open to the public. senate was not. now the senate getting into their own controversial like the jay■■j treaty, one of the early senators that is sent pennsylvania is a man named albert gallatin, probably most famous for being a long time secretary of treasury. and he is of the democratic republican side. and so the feder and looking ate strict rules would say the albert gallatin is swiss, has not lived in the united requisite number of years to

actually serve in the senate so the senate voted him out he is later elected to the house of y pennsylvania. but he is rejected the senate. so naturally people of pennsylvania want to know why their senators been kicked out getting growing public feeling that we want to see what's going on when senate meets here in philadelphiand add to that, the press obviously wants to know what's going on because they've got guys sitting in the balcony watching the house. they want to have guys sitting up here watching, the senate, because that's news final. i am sure of it, that the house of representatives is sitting downstairs meeting in public, going, you know, why do the guys upstairs get to meet in private when we have to sit in front of all these people? so i'm sure there's pressure coming from many different directions. so finally, after about five years of meeting behind closeddd builds a small balcony and they start to as well meet public here in philadelphia. and again, that's one of those longstanding traditions.

but again, when you go back to our earliest this is where you're saying that they don't have everything set stone. they have a constitution only four pages long. these men have to figure out what their job is all about based on a few paragraphs that say and powers that they have. george invents the job president here in philadelphia. again, just going on some, you know, paragraphs in the constitution and figuring out okay what does that that i do every day. so for example when he wants to negotiate a treatydian tribes 'e first time he's going to do something like this is he'll actually come into the senate and sitd say, well, i'm supposed do treaties with your advice and consent, so i want your advice and consent on these issues. i want to discuss and the senate kind of goes, wait a minute,y interested in talking about that with you in the room. why you give us some stuff and we'll talk about and get back to you later. president comes goes from the

senate. since then, it's the more strict separation that we're to now for washington. he's not a guy who likes tons of you know public accolade and"o e like to give a lot of speeches if he can avoid that he do, he will do an address to every year. they don't call it the state of the union yet, but address to congress, which he writes with cabinet, he will come to the senate for inauguration for his second term as president. hed of keeps it low key. he doesn't do the bigger event that we saw downstairs in the house of representatives with john adams, which was a much ]pbigger watching term, basicald takes his oath of office and more or less goes back to work because. he didn't really want the big public to take place, but that's something that would change with inauguration. and then, of course, when you move down to washington, you start having inaugurations. the new capitol building. so that would be a change.

so again, we're sort growing into what the united states is today. now, as you look around room, a lot of the that sat here in the senate were the architects of our constitution because being chosen by their a lot of the guys that had a that would be tt by their states to fill alfie one of the ones that's not as james. madison and he runs into the problem in virginia that patrick henry one of the great powers in virginia henry is not a big fan of madison and his big role in the so essentially madison sort of you know even though he's one of we call him the father of the constitution and the obvious plum of getting a seat in the senate doesn't happen for james. he has to suffer through being elected and running for office and becoming a member of the house. but as for ection of senators, that's actually a very recent phenomenon in our history. that would be the 17th amendment. so 1939 when we'st senators. only just over a century ago.

so all the men prior to that just have to their state legislatures. so you think of the■leb senate they're not actually debating people to vote for them. they're debating for people to vote■n for people for the state government to vote for them. so it's it's very complicated system, which is why when you get into that 20th century populism, people are saying, you know what, wwant to bebls. we vote for pretty much else in government. why not the senate? so that's one of those things thatow into some of these things work. but remarkable thing when you go back to these years and is other than that most everything does 3foperate pretty well the same y we're pretty using the system designed in independence hall that they kind of take into this building and■ use and continue n when they to washington in 1800. now as you look at this room of representatives the second

floor of the building with the senate a lot more original as far as the things in the building go we have we have the setting for 32 senators. we start with just of course 26 representing 13 states. and as each new state, vermont. kentucky will come into the union. you'll add two new senators. so up to the 32. now, when they leave for washington 32 senators would go the room would turn into a courtroom eventually actuallydel district court room in the 19th century they don't necessarily need the stuff that's here so desks kind of go away. we don't know what happened to them these are sort of our best guess but chairs always need so when the mid 1800s when people start actually thinking about american history we do so much of today they started saying we need to collect things for independence hall.

somebody says, well, we got a bunch these chairs, a couple dozen chairs, and at some point somebody were the chairs for the continental congress. so they stuck them in the room but of course they were the chairs for the federal. but either way, these chairs were displayed in independence hall for a long time. and so fortunately, when actually are restoring congress hall the old us capitol to look9 original chairs some of them actually the majority were in the house based on just a simple proportion, but a coózle of them were marked senate. a couple of them had bits of different colored upholstery. we were able to figure with some where the senate they a different color one in the house. so some of these probably in the house we said, well,e senate chr so we'll fill the senate chamber with 29 of the 32 chairs being original, either for the hou or senate, but original. nevertheless, the eagle on the ceiling is we're not 100% sure the date on that. the one ing i can tell you is they're 15 stars above it.

so it's somewhere after the 15th state enters union. we don't know exactly when may never know exactly when. that was painted, but it is sort of an artistic rendering of the seal of the united states. the seal was another thing re in philadelphia, actually, by the continental congress and independence hall in 1782, something that they'd worked off and on throughout the revolutionary war, the different committees, an changing little bit here and a little bit there until they finally worked out the final version of the seal. we have a carpet on the for a reproduction of the original carpet, the original more than likely went to washington when they moved. but whatever happened to it, it's we don't know what happened to the original senate carpet, but it was made specifically the room here and there was enough written description of exactly it was that enabled us to sort of recreate the carpet and it would have also featured the seal of the united states. ave been encircled by the original state seals. it's sort of set up as a chain,

which was actually pretty common motif of the time. you know, of chaining the states together to create this bigger thing. that's the united states of ours. so so a lot of interesting symbols, you know, whether for the states themselves, for the united states, again, have their roots here in philadelphia the one original desk. we still is the secretary's desk. and then the vice president would sit the back of the room. and that's another interesting part of our story. the vice president, which going to start with john adams and then he'll be succeeded by thomas jefferson. they would actually be here a good bit of the time, probably a lot more so than the vice president would be there today. today, the president can literally sit in the but early , they made it pretty clear to john adams they didn't really want him talking. so could just sit there and run the meetings, which left him ve disappointed. one of the he's the first, but certainly not the last vice president to complain about the limitations of that job. he is allowed to vote only to break ties, which, again, that

carries the years. so if there's a tie vote, the president is always the tiebreaker. so any big day, any big vote thce president will be there and other than that, vice president, you know, john adams would find he was kind of stuck here in philadelphia, running a bunch of meetings with a bunch of guys who wouldn't let him talk and would find it very dissatisfying. and, of course, for thomas jefferson, when he's vice president, his opponent is the president. so he doesn't even agree with a lot of the policies. he has to sort of be part of the difficult situation, which is what leads to create aiding the system where we're going to elect president and vice president a little bit more carefully because rather than the electoral college voting for two men, the guy who gets most votes being president, the guy gets the second most being vice reate a system where there was a candidate president, a candidate for vice president making. it much more clear and that's the 12th amendment. and the real emphasis impetus to ths adams election in 1796, but the jefferson

election in 1800, which is when they're packing up and moving to washington d.c.there's no one election day in those days, but they pretty much will start meeting in the new capital december of 1800. they're leaving pr and in the mf this, we're electing adams versus jefferson. but the two sides have learned their lesson. so they said, well, we'll both run two guys, but again, you can't specify which is which. so when jefferson wins the election, technically he ties his own vice presidential candidate, burr, who'd been a and, of course, burr and jefferson. and then being tied means the constitution. the election goes to the house of representatives. so the firstig thing we do in our new capital is that basically the house of representatives has to elect the new president and they have to vote more than 30 times before the tie can be broken. so aganou're saying, okay we've learned our lesson with these past two elections. let's it. so the 12th amendment comes along to finallyt. but again, you look back to these early days and they're

managing to find out what doesn't work, which isn't much, and out that most of that constitution does. and so we're able to today look at a room that's much smaller than the senate today. but the senators sat here pretty much■q do the same things as the senators in washington today.

0 everyone on behalf

of both the miller and the university of virginia press welcome to today's i'm steve cohen. i am a nonresident senior fellow with the milr