c-span.org/campaign 2024. select the record tab and record a 30 second video telling your issue and why, c-span voices 2024. be a part of the conversation. >> a healthy democracy doesn't ok just like this, it looks like this. when americans can see democracies at work and citizens are informed, our republic thrives. get informed from the source, c-span, unfiltered unbiased word for word, from the nation's capitol to wherever you are, because the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like c-span powered by cable. >> next, the discussion about the state of the u.s. economy and the long-term challenges of federal deficits and debt followed by former national

republican committee chair michael steele on u.s. founding principles, in light of actions by former president donald trump. this portion of the conference runs just under an hour and a half. [inaudible conversations] >> all right, everyone. if i can ask you to makeour way back to your seats. we will get started here momentarily and i'll ask them to come onto the stage, yes, as we-- how are you? >> as we get ready to start our next panel in the afternoon stretch here. our 3:20 p.m. panel, principled economics, a formula for growth this, obviously, is an

important conversation because, you know, there's not a lot of leadership right now on -- on principles or economics, i would say, and so, it's important, i think, to have this discussion about the facts and i don't know that we could have a more esteemed or accomplished panel here to discuss it with us. i will introduce our moderator here, who will then introduce the rest of our panelists. but it's my privilege to introduce our moderator, mr. bob bushman. he is an original firster from the beginning. he was at some of our earliest meetings in atlanta, georgia, you know, back when we were 10 people around a chili's dinner table, in a chili's somewhere and just kind of talking about conservativism and the principles that ought to define

our country and our politics. he's the state economist of georgia now, appointed last summer by governor brian kemp to handle revenue forecasting and economic matters. previously with georgia state university, ran the public finance research cluster and worked with the state and tax incentive programs and owe indicationly taught macro economics, but focused on tax policy and research. bob, take us away. >> all right, good afternoon, everybody, let me introduce the panelists, maya to my immediate left for the committee for responsible federal budget, oversees projects, fix the debt, fix the u.s., the project-- fix the u.s. or fix us? oh, okay. a project seeking to better understand the root causes of

our nation's growing divisions and deteriorating political also worked is a returning principles first panelist. and douge funding aaf in 2009 doug taught economics at syracuse university, served as chief economist on president bush's council. and then as director of economic policy for the john on the end, we have brian riddle, senior fellow at manhattan institute. brian's research is mostly area tax policy and the debt. as well as broad macroeconomic issues like economic growth.

senator robportman and center for fiscal responsibility and economic growth and in policy positions with the mitt romney and marco rubio campaigns. welcome to the panelists and thanks to all of you in the audience for spending your sabbathia afternoon with us for the dismal science panel. [laughter] >> so, most of you all probably recall from the clinton years the line, it's the economy, stupid. polls tell us that the economy is the number one topic voters want government to work on. but voters have different ideas about what economic issues are important now and depending on their political ings, widely divergent views on the state and direction of the economy. accord to go a suffolk university poll last■j month, 4% of americans think we're either in a recession or a depression

right now. another 21% thinkn a period of stagnation, and only 29% think we're in a period of the reality, the u.s. economy grew inflation adjusted rate of 2 1/2% last year, ■3.4% real growth the last three years. unemployment last year tied for the lowest level of my lifetime, reaching 3.4% for the first time since and still only-- we're still only slightly off that level and wage and salary incomes of americans have growne of inflation, since the last quarter before the pandemic. so, does the economy stink or is it strong? and that's where we'll start. this will be sort of a lightning round. a few minutes each on two questions. how is the economy today really? and what are the top economic policy issues that we should be

concerned about? so we'll start right here. >> thank you. okay. ■? rst i just want to say thank you. just want to say thank it's great to be here, this is truly an organization that i'm such a fan of and really glad to be a part of it and it's like the volunteer coordinator out there, i'll volunteer, sign me up, i'd love to help. i think it's such important organization and howave come to this conference so happy to be a part of it. how is the economy doing? i think tty well in the immedia which isn't what interests me the most. the economy is strong, i worry about inflation probably more than a lot of people are worrying about inflation, i'm not sure that we've got it under control, but i think given the challenges that it took to get us here, it is a generally strong economy in the moment. i think i'll just give three things that i worry about the most though and that's why i spend all of my time worrying about everything. the three biggest things-- i could also do the top 10.

the three biggest, not surpring i've devoted my career to it is the fiscal health of the country and we can go on with a long list of the numbers. we're so in debt, closest to in debt in this country, the last time after world war ii, this payments, we're spending on defense and a long, long list. we're weak not just from an economic perspective and vulnerable, but also the national security perspective. two others i'd add to my list, i'm very worried about income inequality on own, but more so because it's causing people to lose trust in the economic system. many people think that the system is not fair, it's rigged against them. that if they play by the rules they still won't get ahead and that leads to my third worry which is that i'm particularly worried that people are starting to walk away from the system of capitalism and markets being used for the

allocation of capital because they are-- have losing trust in our economic system and that we're thereby going to end up with things really bad for the economy, slowñn growth dramatically and stop considering growth as much as we should in our policy decisions. smaller economic pie is going to lead to even more political tension than we already have. so, i'm both worried about the problems with capitalism, but i'm worried that people are about to reject it rather than making some tweaks to improve it and that would be very dangerous. >> well, the voters are always right, and well, first of all, thank you, this is my first time. it's a fantastic organization. i question only how your you spend your saturday afternoons. onto something and in the near term where i would say there remains an elevated chance of recession in the quarter of this year. inflation is not yet back-- that genie is not back yet in

the bottle. those two terms are real and legitimate, but the larger concern is that in the 21st century, we grew quite rapidly, gdp per capita, crude measure of■úme, the standard of living, 2.4% for years, no one needs to remember that. in one working career, 29 years eiving would double. in the 21st century we're going 1.4 and the standard of living doubles every 56 years so it's true, they feel like they ahead to access the american dream is disappearing over the horizon. had we grew at the 20th century, everybody would have another $19,000 in real gdp. i want my 19 and you should wantour 19, too. that's the problem. we have an enormous growth problem. part of that problem feeds the deficit, if gdp was as high as it sul another 1.2 trillion a year in revenue, given the debts that we face,

12 trillion would begandy years deficit and the structure of the federal budget is the biggest head wind in economic growth. if we can take on the deficit, we can take on the problem. >> thank you, and thank you for coming out on a saturday. you know, about the economy is the unemployment rate is low. the bad news about it is really the unemployment rate is low, just as a result of a typical inflationary overheating we've had over the past couple of years. the inflation rate has come down, but prices haven't. prices are stillp 18% since president biden took office. you see it when you get gas. you see it when you go to the grocery store. wages have generally not kept up. growing a little bit more, but depending how you calculate wages, compensation, whether you effect. a lot of real wages are still down and ultimately real wages is what matters the most.

economic growth, real are you getting ahead? but it's not even just the numbers on growth. the cost of buying a h doubled since in the last three years if you take into account the rise in interest rates, at the same time of a rise in ic on a median priced home is double what it was three years ago. moving forward, i think, my is that really we've been powered by a series of bubbles. in the late '90s, we were powered by a stock market bubble. burst. then we had a housing bubble power us for the next eight years. that burst painfully. and now, i'm worried we have a debt bubble that's been powering us every since and i'm worried that that's going to be the worst burst of all we can t about the deficit numbers because we just had the deficit

double to its highest level in american history outside of war and recession. it went from one trillion to two trillion in one year and depending on what you think about the tax cuts, and interest rates, we could be headed for deficits of three to four trillion by the end of the and my concern is just like the other two bubbles didn't end well, if we don't get a hold on our budget, this bubble will not end well either. >> okay. thank you for all of this. there were some issues i had i but we're going to start and that's an excellent segue to where i wanted to start with a ep debt. my -- i recently watched your policy director mark goldwine and if you're not familiar with the committee's website, there is so much content there that is very informative and their video presentations like this

one that i'm talking ■about. it was called riches to rags. so i was thinking we could start with the question that he tries to answer with regard to our massive national debt, which is basically how did we get here, what policy choices my-- over the last couplef biggest d of deficits and debt? >> yeah, so, this is a study that we undertook because anytime we'd go and testify for issue of deficits and debt, it just starts into this painful finger pointing game between the two political parties. it's your fault. no, it is your fault. and it is-- it's like, just right there, i'm always afraid that while i'm doing a suddenly going to lose my temper and start yelling, like you guys are breaking the country. none of you care about is- you're acting like children on i'm embarrassed for my children to watch you.

so i should stop testifying until i learn to meditate or something. but there's an incredible blame game going around and the biggest part of it whether on the democratic side, could have been the other side, a chart that showed if we had not cut taxes under the bush era, the trump era, our budget would be fine we■ and you know, i bet that's probably true and bet that's not the whole part of the story. i looked at this, whether you look at spending or revenues, they've all on their own contributed so much that we've kind of deteriorated the situation from wurpluses to deficits, many times over. so, what's really interesting, we've found there are two ways to look at this. the legislation that you put in place and what we found there is that the deterioration was one third from tax cuts, one third from spending increases and one third from a recovery from the crises, the great recession and covid.

of that way, close to 80% of it, bipartisan. this is not a republican or a democrat situation, both parties love to borrow and then the other way to think about it, to look at the issue, where are we with spending and revenues at gdp compared to■■ae surpluses and basically, if you look at it that way, one third of the problem is revenue, and two-thirds of the problems a re there, because soap so much of our spending is automatic. you don't vote for it and legislation doesn't change it, but social security and medicare go up dramatically. get over the blame game and ou voted for these things and enough on spending, if we hadn't done any spending increases basically the debt could be close to paid off. our deficit would be m much, much lower than it is, all of it has contributed. everybody has a part of it and one tiny study that we recently

did, and i was frustrated with the no new taxes pledge and curious how many of the members who promised not to raise taxes have raised spending and in my mind, no new spending, no new borrowing, but turns out that 90% of the folks who have taken the pledge not to raise taxes have increased spending, so, it's such a hypocrisy, a hypocrisy and t an the people promising not to touch social security. there are very few clean hands when it comes to how here and if we don't stop and start looking forward to the tough choices, that we're going to have to fix social securi(&t and have to cut all sorts of spending and we'll be caught in this growing physical ive you all some quick numbers, last year, the federal budget deficit was 1.7 trillion

dollars, and federal debt held by the public today is 98% of gdp. now, just a few years ago there were so-called economists promoting theories for why deficits and debt won't keep pr spending money as much as we want so long as we're printing u.s. dollars, it's never going to matter. why is it important? we'll start with doug and brian. why is it important that we address the deficits and the debt? >> it's very important. i just want to touch a little on what maya went through. i was at the white house in th three years after that, on the mccain campaign and think tank that testified more than any other in that period. what happened, doug? you were there, you did th.

[laughter] >> pretty much my fault. yeah, thanks, doug. but i've thought a lot about it. the old saying that budget is policy and at the budgets of my old boss, george w. bush, those budgets said we're going to win the war on terror at all costs and the obama budget, as long as the rich pay their fair share, it's all good. we can do the aca, and president trump said not one they think about deficits in office. not one word. nothing. and this crowd promises build back better, whatever you want, more and more and more. the most important economic indicators in the country for the 21st century told the american people, there is no problem. so they don't think there's a problem. so if you vote to raise taxes and cut spending and fix the problem you're going to lose your job and that's where we are. it's not complicated. the american people have to be told there's a problem.

and i about to say why it's a problem and you're going to fall asleep, and we do have a problem and they need to be told and then t willing to vote for people who will fix the problem and vote against people who won't. and the problem is really two-fold. number one, you know, we have these enormous deficits, two trillion a year the next 10 years and probably bigger than the projections and that's cash that has to be raised by the federal government and when they go into the financial markets to get the cash, they're taking it at the expense of private firms and households and americans who want it invested in education and technology and businesses that raise their wes they're competing for that and crowding it out and it comes with a cost. that's, i think, most -recogniz which it affects things. there's a really important channel i don't think na people understand. our government is simply spending too much and when it

spends money, it doesn't invest, it subsidizes consumption, and an economy can only grow if people save and invest in the future. what we do with our federal budget, we take that private sector investment dollars and use it to subsidize consumption against future economic growth. that's why we're growing in this century than last century, we're not taking care of eating the quality leaving behind for the next generation, leaving them with a poor standard of living and a financial bill and that's a big problem and that has to be recognized and corrected. >> i'm going to take a lot of the same points as doug and just put my own emphasis i'm a numbers person so bear with me. interest consists two years ago in the federal government budget $350 billion. last year, they were $663 billion. next year, interest cost is going to pass dense,

medicare. a decade from now, depending on if we extend the tax cuts and everything out, interest costs alone could approach $2 trillion a year. at that point 30% of your federal taxes will be paying interest on the debt. so you will work and pay taxes for three months out of the year just to pay interest. it's not going to finance social security check, a veteran or a highway. just interest. then it keeps going, over 30 years we're on pace between 119 and 150 trillion dollars depending on current policy assumptions. by the end of that, you could be paying half or more of your money to the government just for interest. it's such a waste of money. and fun fact, every point interest rate rise adds $30 trillion in interest costs over 30 years.

that's per point. that's another defense department. now all of this assumes interest rates stay low, but here is the ob we're going to bw $119 trillion over 30 years. who is going to lend us $119 trillion. china only holds 1 trillion and they're selling our bonds. japan only holds 1 trillion and they're selling our bonds. the fed holds 5 trillion, they because that's inflation. how are we going to borrow 100 trillion dollars from what, len mutual funds, insurance companies, savings bonds for your kids, state and local governments? that's going to raise ierest rates. you're not going to be able to borrow $100 trillion from wall street without raising interest rates. and that's when the debt hits you from that angle. higher interest rates. higher debt costs. higher mortgage rates, higher business tax rates or business

investment interest rates. and you get less into that growth. so that's bad. >> would you mind if i add a couple more because i'm worried-- >> fun facts? can we do competing fun facts? you go first. >> i was going to do worry. you do fun facts and i'll do things to worry about. >> these are numbers if you repeat, you will have no friends at cocktail parties. >> i have no friends at cocktail parties. >> this is the biggest group i've been in in years. >> the government will spend $82 trillion. 12 trillion interest costs so that's gone. 20 of it, things that congress votes on every year. the remaining 50 are on autopilot, these are so-called entitlements, of that 50, there are social security and medicare. and what do they pledge not to

touch? >> i win (laughter) >> a couple others. doug iseading to slower economic growth and brian is right, the risk of higher interest rates that will lead to a spiral. beyond that able to borrow when emergencies happen like covid or down turn. we've always been able to borrow and rates have not gone up, an incredible privilege where we're squandering. and there are going to be more crisis, they come more regularly and increasingly difficult to borrow when we should because we borrow when we shouldn't. and we have a social contract that is outdated, fixes the problems of last century, not this century. two trust funds, social security and medicare headed insolvency and political promises to do nothing. and social contracts for today's risks instead of the old risk.

entertain that discussion. in terms of foreign policy, that freaks me out a lot these days, wars are not about boots on the ground in the same way theyse to, right? they are economic and they are digital. our ability to be economically and fiscally strong is a huge portion of our national security. many people believe that other countries are encouraging us to borrow more because it's weakening us. that makes sense in my mind. it's a huge national security risk at a time when global hot spots appear to be everywhere. there could be an economic crisis meaning inftion happens and interest rates go up and you can't get out of it and if we get through all of those and we're fine, we still hosted our children because we've said we've given a budget that's terrible, you owe all sorts of money on it, interest payments, you so promises that you have to obligate to support us, even though we didn't do anything to invest in your future and there's going to be huge intergenerational tension. >> okay.

[laughter] >> but-- >> i don't know about your household, but intergenerational tension is already re. ■zave teenagers, that's just the status quo. >> all right. we've had lots of numbers and now we're going to do math and a couple morbers maybe that you will not be tested on this. so in spite of what some political actors would have us believe. we can't just eliminate deficits and start paying down the debt overnight. maybe 25 years ago, 25 years ago somebody might have worried about what happens if we pay off the debt. that's not our problem now. the budget math is really against us and on the blog had a couple of posts last week about the budget math and i just wanted to see if maya, ige ould give some of the

scale of the problem and how much you could actually cut spending. just stabilize the debt relative to gdp and start to bring manageable levels. maya. >> yeah, one of the things i think is important you set out fiscal goals that are it would be great if we set out fiscal goals period. we don't pass budgets. if we did, no requirements for fiscal goals inets, bud that by not passing budget. the senate budget committee did not even offer a budget this past year. i don't know how someone gets to keep their job if that happens, but the other problem though is when people overpromise. you'll hear promises, aim i'm going to the balance the budget in 10 years or four years, no, you're not. once you put our goals that you compromised. it used to be you tried to balance the budget. to balance the budget would require 15 or 16, you have my numbers, 15.

we'll go with 15 so i'm not exaggerating. 15 trillion dollars over a decade and the act, i'm a fan of, a great policy shouldn't have been tied to the debt ceiling and generate savings, hope we stick with them. that's one to two trillion. we are not going to be able to save $15 trillion the around. we're dysfunctional and polarization is huge, people, cut defense, cut social security anddicare, the last time we saved anything close to 15 trillion was never, not even close. so, i think a lot about what's the best fiscal goal that we could get to and the i think the most aggressive and i honestly don't think we could get there would be to stabilize the debt where it is, keep it under 100% of gdp. that's going to require about seven trillion in savings. we've done a blueprint, we being a nonprofit, no political

aspirations so we can say things there are suicidal. to get there, we raised taxes, cut money in defense and we're not going to be able to, defense is going up, it's not going down. that's the where we are. that's a huge list, but my push to congress pick as high a goal as you can possibly get that is reasonable and we could get there. if we had savings packages going forward of 2, 3, 4 trillion i would call that a huge win at this point. >> okay. a couple of you all have touched on this, from one from political and one to process. and deficits and debt. it's partly a process problem and a political problem. so, what is broken about fiscal policy making that makes it so hard to do anything, to reduce

deficits and what are some process fixes that could-- that might enable progress? i am firmly in the camp that was begun by rudolph tenor, the second cbo rudy is known for saying, the process isn't the problem. the problem is the problem. i don't think it's a process fix. it's the leadership the existing budget process and general deficit and seriousness to address it doing the things they need to do. without that nothing that the congress can execute to solve the problem. >> i think, i mean, we do have process problems. we don't pass a budget. 70% of the budget is o autopilot every year, but the ultimate driver here is not the process, it is that over the next 30 years face as

77 trillion dollar shortfall, social security faces a $38 trilli shortfall. and no one is pledging to do anything about it. you can have any process in the world, but until it's no point out that we can't follow 116 trillion dollars for two programs, we're not going to fix the problem. and i'm going to level with you. there is no way to address long-term deficits, of 100% of p unless social security is reformed and medicare is refo a taxes are going up. look, i'm a conservative. i hate tax hikes. you can't get rid of 116 trillion dollars shortfall just on spending cuts. the math doesn't work and the politics don't work. and the rso problem gets worse is because of three

things politicians take off the table are social security, medicare and middle class tax chan8"s. again, i hate the idea of raising middle class taxes and minimize as if possible. but i feel it's my duty as someone who works in warn you, expect that your middle class-- that middle class taxes will rise over the long-term because that's just where the numbers are. >> can i respond? because i also think the-- oh, clap for brian. [applause] >> i do think the process can make a difference a little bit. i think a huge part of theo to problem is the opposite of what our polarized moment has created. so if you fiscal progress, you need to focus on the long-term, not the short-term. not the immediate, the longer term. health of the economy and making things

sustainable. you need to focus on good policy, not good politicsment politics. you need to make choices rather than a freelunch. and those are literally the opposites of things i see going on with polarization. it leads me to think that the process does have to be more of the fix. if you have to take somet's not democratic, but our democratic leaders are not doing anything hard, they're unwilling to. so i would require that there's a budget and if there's no budget. i have an auto cr or an auto cr that cuts spending across the board or spending and raising taxes across the board and encourages a budget and makes an automatic one. pay-go means if you're putting new spending in cuts, you have to offset it and they have the whole workaround the end of the year, the score card, they wipe it clean vote happened. i would make it really clear

that pay-go is the law and you have to stick to it, this is budgeting. ysomething, you have to figure out how to pay for it. and we desperately need a fiscal commission or ins lute hard choices that they have to make. the problem is the problem, the leadership is the problem. ■u ge us towards a solution. >> would you like to commitment on the fiscal commission idea? there's a lot of information on maya's website, again, i keep pointing people there. on-- it's a whole faq on fiscal commission. and what it means,thing. >> i'll make two points and in the process, disagree with maya, which is something that she and i do really well. [laughter] >> , but not-- i know, point number one, i really do not believe you can ask people to aside and go do the right

thing. they're politicians they can't put the politics aside. that's who they so, it's incumbent on people like me to make good policy, good politics and that's what we need to do. we need to get the eti the chan atmosphere that surrounds the politics so that it's good politics too the right thing and i've dedicated my adult life to that mission and to the notion that better educated decision. make better there's no evidence that any of those things of true for the record. [laughter] >> that's number one. i do question whether you can trap them into doing the right thing, it never works. second, fiscal commission, i'm not a believer. and telling brian the very first commission waskf by the first president, george washington. it would happen with the to send in troops and shoot my

ancestors. and they have to be willing to■ take the vote and support the policy. and back to that issue. a commission won't get you around that problem. so i want this commission, you can end run politicians and end run our politics. that's an illusion, it's not going to work and i was also on the financial crisis commission, two years, millions of taxpayer dollars, accomplished nothing. no more commission. >> i also had the joy of working on a commission that doesn't work staffed the 2011 super committee that failed miserably. i was senator portman's i'll take the squishy middle between the two of you on commission. what a commission can't do. the commission can't create the will of reform if they don't want to. ko get together, they will not comprise, they will not take the risky vote

and my worry right now with the commission, even if we create one, if you don't have presidential and congressional leadership buy-in of both parties they're never going to■ compromise, they're never going to build a realistic plan and they're never going to bring it to the floor and pass it. reform first. e the will to if you get the will to reform, a commission can help restructure the reforms, it can get everybody in the room, it can create a structure. it can provibility to the public and it can get fast tracked vote in congress. so, you can implement a will with commissi worry is, a lot-- if you want to know what the commission is serious, check who they appoint to it. leaders and chairman of major committees, this is a serious commission. if they appoint back benchers, and idealogues that has no

committee, it's a check the box commission that's going to die a quick death. >> okay, so we've got a leadership issue. that's a big part of why we're here. so, we've only got about nine minutes left. we're not going to get to tax policy or inflation or regulation, i guess, unless you all want to ask questions about those things. we're going to use the for quesm the audience. right here in the front. >> why is nobody mentioning the-- (iudible) >> i can take that. >> a blog post just a couple of weeks ago. >> i wrote a report last year-- the question, why aren't-- i wrote a report the limits of balance billionaire taxes are

going to have to be on the table. if we're going to tax the middle class like i said, you're right that rich people need to be on the table and they wille on the table, but you have to be realistic. if you seized every dollar from every billionaire and i mean every house, every yach every i business right down to the kid's nerf basketball hoop, you could fund the government one time for nine months. and then it's gone because the resource is gone. it's not a renewable resource, when theirea gone. one time for nine months. so the idea that billionaires can fix the problem i think is mathematically just not the case. the idea that if you're going to ask, you know, plumbers, waitresses and teachers to pay more in taxes, billionaires should be interested, you're right.

[applause]. >> and more general-- >> so the question is, what contribution can more immigration policy make to reducing deficit. >> there's no single-- i'll answer this, there's no single economic policy than immigration reform. the native born population, fancy tookor the ab accepts of immigration, we're japan. we're older, smaller, will he is potent on the global stage. the flip side all of our future's growth in population, work force, competition and skills for the work force, investment in the economy hinges on our immigration decisions and we're currently fumbling that opportunity away. [applause] >> doa-- on your, i don't know if you call it a blog or on your

website. >> those are personal musings that are therapy each day. >> daily something. [laughter] >> just the other day about how much money on immigration enforcement. >> yeah. >> versus how much we would spend if ■mwe processed immigrants in the normal fashion and put them to work. >> yeah. >> or let them go to work. roblem with an economist, trying to find the least cost solution to a problem. it's way cheaper to execute visa granting system than to sort of try to close up the southern border, which is a that, that would be a mistake, it's a very, very serious problem, but it's cheap to get people into the economyrv a now, we have an enormous visa backlog and a wise man once told me if

you've got a problem you can solve throwing money at it. that's an easy problem and solve it. we can by the scale of the federal budget solve the backlog and put millions of pele to work and generate tons of additional gdp and tax revenue if we just gave the u.s. customs and immigration services more resoces. it's right now a fee driven system so that the immigration of community, the immigrants and people bringing them here are paying fees to make,ond the enormous. if we pumped extra money in there, it would be a sensible thing to to call on everybody in front. let's go over here. >> (inaudible) >> medicare is a little different because the actual cost. can you talk a little about,

there is not so much cut the sp maybe some other things that you need to think about that would perhaps maybe bring our medicare costs in line with, maybe not in line, but closer to what it is? >> so i think we all have ideas why don't you go first. >> no, you guys do health. >> so, here is the deal. >> her and medicare. social security is just money, way simpler and anyone on this panel can fix it numerically, it's aboutit reform. the thing that social security and medicare share, they're growing much more rapidly than the economy will grow and thus any sort of tax revenue will grow. so it's not about cutting them, it's not having them grow more slowly that they grow at the pace of the economy and no goal with medicare, there are four

parts to medicare cleverly named a, b, c, d. a is. one that has a payroll tax the others are premium financed, but when they designed them they , can't have them pay the whole premium. no one should pay for their health care. so the premiums cost a quarter of the care of mal revenue, unlimited draw on the treasury and that's the problem. medicare is by itself responsible for a third the first thing you should do is stop the unlimited draw put medicare on the budget anl say the beneficiaries, doctors, ma this is what you've got this year go do something good with it and take the 7% growth rate and close tower the 4 we need while still delivering medical service. but turning them is the key. right now spends a lot of money, adequate care and everybody thinks better on the

quality front and it should as well. >> right here. >> what about raising the tax on social curity-- >> yes. [laughter] >> keep in mind though the reason the-- the reason the tax is capped is the benefit is capped. and so you know, the question if you raise the cap do you also let the benefit rise or do you, f time delink the tax and the benefits? but if you do it-- let's say you eliminate the cap, you eliminate about half of social security shortfall. social security has a shortfall that's going to balance at 1.8% of gdp by the 2030's. getting rid of the cap and giving mow benefits gives you 0.9% of gdp so about half. so, i think lifting the cap should be on the table. f the solution along with age and benefits. really, again, the three real levers for social security are

the tax, the age, and upper income benefits. you can't solve the problem with raising the cap, but it will be part of the solution when they do it. >> it's also reay that because a lot of people just have lift the payroll cap and that's it. that isn't the full it used to be a decade and plus ago, and a reminder by procrastinating, the cost of waiting to fix social security is huge. all the have done before to fix it and people would not have felt much difference at all. those are no longer available to us. we're going to have to there is i would definitely lift the payroll tax cap, but i wish we didn't have to, i raised for higher income people. i think we need the dollars for a lot of other things much cost of waiting has been huge and i hear a lot of people thinking we should

wait until the last minute and offense across the board. >> we already have. i mean, when we were-- we're go more years. >> when we were doing social security reform with bush, doug holtz-eakin, the pension i was promised. th trailing end of the baby boomer, and if you grandfather me, they've of-- >> cutting the benefits of people who don't need them first would be along with raising the retirement age would be the most sensible priorities. >> okay, i've got a clock 0, 0, 0. >> that's the rating.

[laughter] thank our panelists for coming out today and thank you all for enduring us. [applaus >> all right. how is everyone feeling? right here at the end of the day? day one. it has been a, just a fantastic day. it's been great to see and meet many of you, a lot of you returning. a lot of you here for the first time out in the pleasure. we've got a great day in store tomorrow as well, but to cap us off this evening, you know, to bring us home, i can't think of a better person to put a capstone on what we're doing here today and this weekend.

he's someone that i greatly admire his leadership, both in maryland, but also at the rnc. he's mr. michael steele. steele made history when he became the first african-american to be elected to statewide office in maryland where he served as lt. governor from 2003 to 2007. was chosen the first african-american chairperson of the rnc from 2009-2011. i think it's important to understand though what happened in both tenures of his leadership. he was charged with revitalizing the republican party. under his leadership, rnc broke fundvx more than 190 million raised in the congressional cycle, i don't think it went to pay anybody's legal bills. you can correct me if i wrong. a round of applause for that. [applause] >> as lt. governor of

maryland, priorities with improving the public education system and championed the charter schools and economic devepm state's minor business enterprise program and fostering cooperation between government and faith-based organizations to help those in need. he is the leader, a principles first leader of just the highest order. he's someone i greatly admire and i'm really looking forward to hearing his vision know, not just our country, but for the group of people and leaders assembled in these chairs today. so with that, like to welcome mr. michael steele. [applause]... michael: what's up? what are you doing? how you doing? you had me worried here! [laughter]

you know your rebels, right? i love it. this is >> you know, i love it i love it. this is the real honor for a mes conversation but more importantly this movement towards preserving, protecting and defending democracy, towards lifting up the values of america andiples that live by, and you, all of you are on the front line of that. and so the honor for me is to be you upfront not at the end but at the beginning of what have to say from what you were doing, which you are bravely enduring and what you are about to do. because that's what i want to talk to you about. i want to layn some track so we understand and get our heads around the moment we are in. because we can't deal with

stupid. righ we can't do with ignorance and not understanding what this momentnt represents. so thank you for allowing me to share some thoughts on that, and thank you, keith, at entire vegetables first team for bringing us together. [applause] because it's important and to see my buddy mr. raffensperger in house so i know good. so i i whe 1970s, the 1970s. america was changing the idealism of the 1960s were being tested by the trials of watergate and vietnam, from the full toa ronald reagan. i recall aser a young man that

this time was different. i recall what seemed so strange to some people today that■ a 17-year-old black kid growing up here in the inner city of washington, d.c. could find himself in values, his priorities, his beliefs, reflected in what he heard from a republican party and i its leader, whose experiences and backgrounds were sore very different from his own. in a life spent advancing republican principles since then, i have had the privilege to do so when it wasn't particularly easy. in fact, in many instances it was unwelcome.and yet with all n bona fides like many of you in this room, and outside this■

room, in today's republican party it's not enough. it's not enough. over time we watch republicans lose their voice on thingshat mattered as they built the ark of the party towards the baseless modusto of one man who was neither republican nor a conservative. more and more of the many women who once stood on the front lines of moving the party into the future were forced to retreat from that future and watch this once honorable political movement rooted in principle and core philosophies spiral into a cult of personality. so i would like to begin this conversation with a defense of the things, in a particular thing, that our mother's told us as young kids that we didn't have too much of, common sense.

what are parents knew as comments it is the unsung hero of our decision-making. the silent guide that often goes unnoticed but remains in the central element of our daily lives. it's the pragmatic intuitive wisdom that helps usom navigate the intricacies of existence, offering practical solutions to problems in a world where we have parted with information and conflicting opinions, common sense stands as a beacon clarity guiding us through the noise and the chaos. so what the hell how did we lose our common sense? common sense is supposed to be an equalizer. it levels the playing field where the wisdom of the sage alliance with the insights of a

child. but when it comes to our politics today it appears the children have gagged and bound the sages. in the complex landscape of contemporary politics, the application of common sense is often overshadowed by partisan agendas, , polarized ideologies and sensationalism. however, harnessing the power of common sense in a political movement and its decision-making is not just an official, it's imperative. it's imperative for the well-being of our society. at its core, tents and involves approaching issues with practicality, rationality, and a focus on the common good rather than the personal or gain. it requires a shift from divisives towards solutions that

actually benefit the broader population. which brings me to our two political parties. political parties as been in this room have come to learn our at times a bit like a rash. unsightly, irritating, and lacking in the intellectual or ideological coherence. however, also like a rash, pocal parties can be a problem. they cannot be safely ignored. because our rash may prove inconsequential. heal itself. but inn the case of our current political climate it may be a symptomerious with consequences

that could leave a permanent scar, or worse. you see, since founding the story of america largely has been about what we aspire to no doubt our recent presidential and midterm elections have tested that proposition as our elections have become more and more about what makes us mad. de tocqueville once noted what there's more dangerous than funds expected expectation. it's been the unmet expectations of countless americans flemes incompetent behavior ofin electd officials compounded by the zero-sum engagement of both political parties that have defined the current levitical landscape. we've allowed our anger and frustrations to be exploited to the point that we no longer co face of america.

or that it doesn't have to be the great america. blessed. folks, we've lost sightsi of our blessings. we are blessed by the fruits of this land. we are the spacious skies and amber waves of grain. we a blessed by the exceptional nature of the people who call themselves americans. at the heart ofll of that is the faith, is the faithha■t we place in freedom. this was important to our founders, so much so thathey the

words, quote, we the people of o form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure■ the blessings of liberty to ourselves, and our posterity. damn. they wrote those words when a lot of people in this room were not included in them. but we are now. and that is the blessing of america. while the ideal in our founding would be transformational, transformational, so, too, were

concerned about its lasting resilience. ben franklin noted upon the signing of the constitutionn now established. everything seems to promise it will be durable, but in this world nothing is certain except death a taxes. frankly would go on to say quote, the people must take part in and support the government in order for it to be successful. let me repeat that. the people must take part in and support the government in order for ito to be successful. during his farewell address, president george washington warned, quote, however factions lyrical parts now and then answer popular and scum that likely in the course of time and things to become potent engines by

unprincipled men will be enabled to support the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion. washington and franklin knew what the hell they were talking. and now we bear witness today to washington's warning, as for example, theby republican party has become infected by such cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men who have done their very best to subvert the people. we have watched senators and house members walk away from reelection because of this. representative liz cheney lost her republican c house conferene chairmanship and opening her seat in congress because of this

infection. our fellow americans stormed the halls of the united states capital because of this infe but once seized by infection, we must want to get better, to be better, to do better. how else do we g union? liz cheney was direct and to the point about this, th, can't embrace both the big lie and a brace the constitution, or even democracy itself. because defending the indefensible time and time and time and time and time and time and time again has left a stain. it is left a stain on this country, and it is left a stain on us.

so while former president trump has spent considerable time successfully reshaping as much of the republin his image, a feeling that setting the rest of that on fire, the fracture within republican party is not the biggest issue in americ p today. and we lose sight of that. in fact, this fracture was long in the making b trump. no, this fractureis is significt in highlighting the ongoing rotect and defend american democracy. from voting rights to to the once lauded choice of the principle of a partisanship, character over corruption, and country over party. we've witnessed the■ntruction of our republic, ultimately to the point that one of our two major political parties declas tventsn january 6 were legitimate

political discourse. how messed up do we have to be to get to that point? americans areiritually.al but the question i have for all of you in this realm, and those of you who are in this words is simply this, are we so exhausted that we can't begin to address our women's? that we can't begin to unify behind shared beliefs? that we can't again look atot eh otherth and say let's do this together. to truly unify we must first be honest about what our nation is importantly, give a damn about it.

are here. because you give a damn about your country. you give a damn about your neighbors. you give a damn about your friends. hell, you give a damn about people y because they stepped foot on the soil and want to be a a part f this great experiment. because they want to find their little piece of the american dry families and people inside and outside this room have. that's been our s.■x a blessinge have shared with the world. and you give a damn enough about it to want to protect it.r repus reached the point that our minds are fogged over by the magnitude of post covid life and current global events, the distractions of politics, but we have always

found a way to lift each other up as we lift the nation to do better and to bei÷ better. as mr. de tocqueville noted quote, the greatness of america lies not in being more enlightened than any other nation,ut but rather in her ability to repair her faults. remember as i said -- remember as i said, it's not t america's greatness. but rather about how blessed we are, and that we have the ability to face adversity and the difficulty that we encounter. to repair our faults and to move our country forward. and now the hard part.

thisco is where your leadership comes in. this is what each one of you ars repair, and help us reconnect and to help each other understand why this wacky, , cry experiment still matters in the 21st century. you lisn and you will tomorrow to people laying out practical solutions, and they are important, and they are real and they are doable. and we digest and we go through and the kind of work out some of the angst and the paint and the frustrations we have with all of it. but it's time, folks, to get busy. it's time to get serious. it's time to stop making excuses, and it's time for each one of us to stand up as part of we the people, a legacy that is been handed to each one of u std

to move it forward. you just can't sit on your back and think someone else is going toec doty are not. you have to lead now. you have to be the leader now. witnessed difficult times. it has witnessed an appalling injustice. and at times faln far srt of the ideals posited at its founding. we have learned notwithstanding our ideals heroism and sacrifice of prior generations. we still remain vulnerable to the appeals the basic elements of our how much do we really truly appreciate the dangers of unmet expectations? are you even concerned that at this hour our nation is moving further away from its ideals and hopeful optimism?? are you just rationalizing a haf

the tribe you belong to? which do you value gas or the pf freedom? which concerns youore, the increase and a rate of inflation or the rate at which state legislatures areur decreasing access to the ballot box and fundamental rights? e face are real, and voters take with those maligned as deplorable or as clinging to god and guns and religion, or coming from shit all countries or from cities no human being would live in, those people are■ fellow americans are right to feel marginalized and ignored. many o our community, particularly those far from washington, new york and silicon valley arene afflicted by a growing despair. in turn, that despair breeds pathology of the further

afflicts our neighbors and even our families to where basic truth and facts are no longer believed. and one individual can come in and reshaped the land in hise tm the scores of national local elections we've abolished slavery, welcome the immigrants, provided the conditions that foster the standard of living i met anywhere else on the planet. more important, the men and women we choose to lead during these times understood that despite all else, american purpose remainsork towards achieving the ideals writtenen n parchment 248 years ago. more than most, president abraham lincoln understood that thosee ideals, if they were implemented, would be w transformational. and nation conceived in liberty could and it did empower us,

each one of us, we t■1 people, in this moment to help our country, to stand with our ne defend against illiberal, ugly behavior. this is our do you still believe in america? and it's on us to understand ann is asking. finally, addressing a reunion of civil war soldiers in 1875, president ulysses s. grant predicted t din line in the nation's next great conflict, quote, will not be mason's or dixons. but between patriotism and intelligence on one superstition and vision and

ignorance on the other -- ambition -- 1875, y'all. he just called us out. he just called us out. the narcissism and self-indulgent drifting in washington and state capitals across the nation not o public policy but it has corroded our politics, bastardize our patriotism, turned facts into lies, and lie relationships, one to the other, nothing short of nightmarish tribalism entanglement. fight. we have become like our public officials, either too afraid to speak truth, or apoplectic about banal and absurd nonsense. we lose our mind over dumb an electoral governing coalition

that coalesces around the personality or the latest rantings of unserious people rather than addressing the nation's needs is not just unsustainable,us it' dangerous and debilitating. it is not leadership. and that is what you are required to bring in this moment, each one of you, leadership. that's focused and driven by principal, that people see themselves reflected in, their pains, their aspirations, their desires. elevating up for them the freedoms and helping them understand why we are all connected. so i have no ending here. that's why you are here. because the ending is left up to each one of you in this room

when you walk out that door. you are writing it. you're going toin live it. you are going to share it and you're going to make it possible for somee else. and it will either be a good ending or it won't. dr. king knew tha his dreams, that movement toward civil rights and human dignity, would not be realized on that national mall in august 1963. august of 1963. it would not be realized in his lifetime, but rather would, in fact, rest in the dreams and ambitionsf future generations of americans as they faced, like his generation, efforts to use the constitution and our civil rights against us. he understood that was the essence of the dream, that we would rise upn that fight, as

we witness our leaders today using our rights and thest eachf us. his faith in us led him to nonetheless write this new chapter, right this chapter on behalf of l of freedom, write it on behalf of opportunity, righted on behalf of the american dream. but the question is are we willing to do so? are we willing to pay the price to do so? so defeating ambition and ignorance with patriotism and intelligence begins with applying a little common sense. as we do so we must not only embrace but proudly extol our po democratic principles like pluralism and civic responsibility, the rule of law and constitutional order.

this is how we defeat the tyranny of donald trump. this is how we defeat the the illiberal, destructive behavior, that undermines the very value of the proposition that all of us are free. [applause] >> last point, we have work to do. otherwise, this does not end we room outside these walls. so don't screw it up. [laughing] [applause]

>> all right. they want in the books. thank you, everybody for coming. i think three quick announcements, very quick. the first, if you did thatck gea chance to get your book signed by cassie had to do, she's coming back tomorrow. she will sign some books ow if you didn't get that chance. the second announcement is if you're interested in thees grassroots leadership session, it's an optional session h 7 p.m. go get some food, take a break and come back. we will be talking first, but we have planned over the rest of this year, brainstorming ideas about how we can kind of take this energy momentum throughout the course was going to be an important 2024 year. and then last but not least what is t [laughing] rick perry over here, what's of the third department of energy?

[laughing] one, two, three. oh, start time tomorrow. 9 a.m. come we will start with the duty on a country panel michael wood will be joined by the former commander of the international space station for that. i will be interesting and right after that w will have george conway, mike and barbara comstock. come back, we'll get going tomorrow morning. [applause] >> c-span2 unfiltered view of government. we offended by these television companies and more including co

cox. >> koolen-de vries syndrom >> hi. >> this is joe. >> but friends don't have to be. when you're connected you are not■9 alone. >> cox supports c-span as a public service along with these other televisionrors gi@ving you a front-row seat to democracy. >> we take you live now to the floor ofhe today lawmakers are working on several judicial nominations and expected to vote on the confirmation of former new york cock maloney to be the u.s. ambassador to the organization for economic cooperation and development. live coverage of the u.s. senate here on c-span2. enate will be o prayer by our guest chaplain, bishop larry lawrence brandon, pastor of the praise temple church and the