were conflict between foster families and birth relatives. maybe it sounds nice in the abstract it just introduces il >> rob henderson of this book troubled sunday nights 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span q and a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcast on a free honor app. these television companies and more including comcast. just a community center? it is way more than that. 1000 committee centers. wi-fi enabled students from low-income families and get the tools they need to be ready for anything. comcast support c-span as a public service along these other television providers. giving you a front row seat to democracy.

c-spancspanshop.org is c-span's online store. her latest collection home to core and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan every purchase shop now or any time at c-span shop shop.org. >> we went to welcome author of this book disproven unbiased search for voterud for the trunk campaign. his name may sound familiar he is the president of simpatico president campaign hire you and what did they hire you to do? >> is a two part process. for deceased voters and voters who voted twice once in a swing

state and what's in some other state the campaign duties ask evaluating claims of voter fraud coming in from ever from all over the country from amateurs looking at data, to lawyers who names we all recognize, making claims of fraud. when those claims involve data the campaign asked me too evaluate them and tell a them or not. every circumstance they were false. >> you right in the book the contract was signed on november 5 2020. i had no idea then how finding so little would lead to so much. you sign a contract with the trump campaign on that day november 5 2020 how long did you work for them? >> about 35 days. honestly i can say some of the craziest days i have

>> 35 days? >> yes. >> and 35 days if you have access to all of the data that you need and to to determine whether or not there is fraud? >> it's a very nuanced answer and going to give you. the answer is i had access to the data that was available at that time. i had full access to the date of the rnc had available. data is no state makes available to anybody who voted in person inside that 38 -- 35 date window you get the mail ballot information you can process, but for some reason the in person votes are not there. the large chunk of the boat by january february after the election for just because the data was not available to me at thatn' period of time because nobody has come through it since and has determi t fraud. that is not impactful meaningful problem.

in november 2020 pre- >> then explain how you could go back to the trump campaign and say there is fraud in the 35 days. there wasn't enough voter fraud that's important distinction. we did find duplicate voters. but the numbers were far less than thousands many thousands that were necessary inside the swing states and i was very transparent as we discussed the challenges with having access to some data and not having access to other data. i can pretty confidently sayted to specifically alice cannon was my main contact had a lot of confidence in the work i was doing the fact is being as thorough as i was and i was probably numbing his brain with how much information i was educating himit abo and the processes i was going to

i know we trusted my results and he communicated very thoroughly to market meadows at the end of thead the campaign looked extraordinarily hard at not only looking for fraud but evaluating everyone else claims of fraud we found nothing that rose to level of changing election results that would survive legal scrutiny and corporate. >> you then write this book disproven did you go back after those 35 days and do a more thorough look at the data after moore became available? >> all the data is available atoi this point for all of the people at such ahad such a strong interest in looking for sure there were many eyes that looked at this data after the fact. nobody has gone to the data and make any determination that contradicts what i had done within 30 i days. the other thing that's important to remember here, to file a claim inannot file a claim based on data that does not exist for dick only work with what's out there right now.

the mail ballot tens of millions of them. having gone through all of those my job was to there were some massive voter fraud i would be the guy to do it is a pretty extraordinary thing if you are able to have a finding like that but i was not going to ruin my personal and professional reputation by delivering results i would be humiliated with in court. so in the contract they put this and i'm going to deliver it you you finding so stand up in court. and there is nothing that rose to that. you and why? >> alex cannon and i don't know why. >> still to this day? how did he find you? >> i don't know. you h he was action-packed from 5:00 a.m. in the morning until sometimes all night too. >> with the data specialist? >> i own a software engineering company we specialize large database applications. i participated in the countries

of first online debit card system for food stamps for thehe state of texas. work in the gaming industry. lots of transactions and lots of data is where i do a lot of my work. and fraud is something i've always enjoyed doing i think it's important to do. we have looked at food stamp fraud and medicare fraud and that sort of thing. >> who did you talk to during the 35 days in the trump campaign and who did you not talk to? >> a simple answer to that is almost all of my communications were with alex cannon as we set up the framework for how i was going to do this work he told he was going to keep my identity and my company's identity closely held he did out of the white house to know who's doing the work because he wanted us to be unbiased and he wanted us to be shielded from political pressure part he wanted us to be shielded from people insisting on a certain set of results that's not what works for

landing in court the successful court case. it was really just alex from any within the campaign. >> you spoke where did that communication go from alex when she him who did he talk to? >> at the time i had no idea with the generally six transcripts he was i was a time to other upper level campaign attorneys. most notably the fact to deliver he delivered the news to market meadows the campaign was unable to find fraud that mattered that couldra change the election. >> that information to the former president? mark meadows they took tion into the oval office precluded you not talk to alex cannon wasva said hello to my wife in the morning i was talking toor alex first and is pretty much the last conversation i had during the day because we without the lawsuit about rudy giuliani and other lawyers?

>> i saw claims i can confidently say itt sidney powell. she was helping to push mathematical were trying to apply the entire state of pennsylvania to prove voter d i saw a claim i've been up to piece together pretty sure it amcame from jon eastman 16000 claim duplicate votes in nevada. it was about 16. this is a pattern all of the numbers were hyperinflated because the people who did thealysis did not understand what they were looking at and they did not understand how to make sure they were not making errors in identifying the person board. there is a lack of understanding of what people were looking at block is the author disproven my unbiased search for voter fraud for the trump campaign the data that shows why he lost and how we can improve our elections and

have it can block respond he is our guest here this morning. before wewhich state did you focus on this book? quick swing states we all knowok by heart georgia arizona nevada wisconsin michigan, pennsylvania pickwick let's cisco joseph in point pleasanttho beach. good morning to you. >> good morning, how are you? how are you doing can i've seen of a foreign tv. i got a point i want to make it. the first point is there is nothing that you canut the sevenn states you are talking about they change their laws unconstitutites can do that you cannot tell me that's not right i don'tot care how many degrees you have. but affidavits from poll workers the same bad votes you're going to get the same number.

there questioning the validity. i don't care how many degrees you have my work was all tasked specifically to grading findings of fraud that would survive le scrutiny. that means when you bring it to court and the defense attorneys are going to come at you with everything they have up to try to show you messed up, you were wrong it's a very high bar. a lot of what you're talking about is not data evidence especially about the giuliani thing. it is hearsay evidence. it is almost never evidence you can bring successfully. especially to overturn election result ityo has to be very different kind of evidence. as far as the constitutionality of changing the laws there have been court cases that was not

determined to be aha problem. so i get it now i understand that it is upsetting and many people wanted the results to be different. my role in all of this specific to deliver to the campaign if it existed evidence that would work they could overturn the election is simply was not there. >> gordon and wyoming good morning go ahead. >> "washington journal" just has to be required viewing for all branches of government. i take the oath they have to swear to t watch "washington journal" every morning. anyway i am 78 years trump and biden are geezers they need to step aside. ialexi vice president harris younger people please, please. also something off the subject.

>> could you please stick to the topic here jeff a question or comment about 10 blocks book? >> i am sure trump lost the election for goodness sake. but that's all it got. they need lst all right gordon we will leave it there and move on to randy was in southwest virginia hyatt randy. >> hi how are you could you ask the gentleman how many democrats voted and how many republicans voted that is my question. >> will take that. >> it is a great question. i'm going to expand a little a couple hundred fraudulent votes we found some deceased about scattered around the swing states in 2020. recount a couple hundred duplicesose votes was cast in the swing state by expanded a little bit

to include information about from 2016 where we across 24 states. i want to be clear how much data we looked at. we found about 8000 confirmed duplicate votes across the states with the most in florida just over 2000. not enough to change any result here we look at the involved in this it is 50/50 it is not all democrats it's not all republicans and twice it's usually a crime of privilege someone who owns two homes in two different placesomures there's not a lot of harm in exercising the franchise twice although it's highly illegal that they have done it's only recently advent of computers which only has been involved since 2008 in our elections in a serious way we have been able to start to identify this kind of activity. and hopefully eliminate as we go along >> explain highly illegal if you get caught and convicted. >> it is a felony with up to five years in jail and 10,000 dollars fine.

>> endeavor inand deborah in west chester ohio republican. >> good morning thank you for taking my call. is not so much who won and who lost but undermining the integrity of the election. by introducing a mass amount ballot. i spent myin career as a scientist and process vation. most use over-the-counter drugs. we should have separated outside of the states constitutional guidelines. and that is serious. and the amicus brief that was written is not taken up by the supreme court but that's another issue. in our county alone there like wonder to 13000 ballots and pennsylvania that were notcurate to the addresses they were all kinds of other things. we should've should have taken the

mass mail ballots and said this is tsid robust. and therefore when you count them separately. and you have to have a copy of your id attached at the time i received the ballots separate the id attached it to the envelope and do it separately a was not a robust validation of an election which you consider. >> hang on the line and listen to the response. >> what i'm going to tell you is i think you arehi right when it comes to the week validation that we currently have in place in many places in the country but not necessarily all pretty about election integrity one of the challenges we have is every state does it differently many times many counties within the same state do the same each other. that is inconsistency and integrity are two different words and they mean opposite things in my world.

i have a lot of suggestions in the book of things we can and should do to improve our elections theregs aren't many congressmen and women who watch hte. now th i'm asking you i am begging you to please consider a nonpartisan effort to evaluate how we operate our elections and make overly necessary changes to eliminate some of the proms we have right now. i do not right now using signatures to validate whether you are who you say you are when you're casting a vote by mail anonymously challenge it is a century-old technology. we can do far better than what we're doing right now and i have many, many suggestions along you we really need to buy do better than were doing right now. >> in your book you look at pennsylvania thela find? >> i think i've done something fairly unique in thers country. i predicted apl votes in pennsylvania beforefo they occurred. what's interesting about this in

particular i was involved in looking at all of the registered voters in california see who is deceased i found a couple who had died years before september 2020 that brenda registration on the system i looked at those that watch these will be fraud that warning made its way into a lawsuit working its way through pennsylvania courts at the time. and sure enough on election day some of those deceased voters cast votes. the votes counted but then after the fact the person who created there's different people for each of the votes they arrested the people made the fraudulent votes they prosecuted and got convictions. they got convictions for those fraudulent votes. what's interesting in the case of pennsylvania that two cases i am talking about are both republicans. who cast damily members. >> doing who they voted for? >> yes in both cases.

i'll give to it. yes because the person who committed the fraud admitted they were republicans and they had cast the fraudulent votes on behalf and for president trump. what's really important about the whole concept of contesting an election based on identifying votes i hope most of your viewers understandably cast a vote who you vote for is not disclosed. they cannot your particular ballot back to you once you cast your vote. so let's imagine this did not ppen but let's imagine i found 15000 fraudulent votes in georgia. had i found those votes i am pretty confident no court of law would've look at those submitted a determination therefore the election showed up and overturned those fraudulent votes against the interest. those cannot be showing harm to the campaign you don't know who those votes were cast for.

it's a really important point. all of these issues that revolve around fraud is without being able to show harm those votes went to trump's opponent. you're not going to get an election overturned brickwork sticking with pennsylvania and the claim by there were dead voters there you found a what? >> i think we've found that i can't type exactly 10 or it may maybe on the high end? and i don't think a lot of them are prosecuted. there were only a handful i was aware of two or three that resulted in convictions but i don't know whatco happened to the rest of them. the trumpe campaign for the fraud i didn't find his best as i know they do not forward those results to law enforcementsu progress go to dan next in sioux falls, southow. >> hi dan your turn. >> my question is, so trump lost

the popular vote by like what 8 million in the loss the electoral college bite like 50 votes. i think we have to go back to gore versus george w. bush but we had the hanging chad's down there it was that razor thin. and so like what you are saying in your book you try to uncover the fraud it did not come out to where it would affect the election. you also got to go back in that timeframe that was during covid there's a lot more mail and ballots at that time. i think this election coming up in 2024 will be a lot less mail and ballots and more in person voting. pi come to our work in south dakota instead of you going to make sure these elections are valid? i said where were i go vote in my little elementary schoolsa pool in sioux falls south dakota you have to have your id. they checked it and they double check it with the role. th vote.

there is no voter fraud. my question to your guest is why won't trump and republicans accept the fact they lost? al gore headed out back when george w. bush won even when i think he got screwed in that election. >> a right dan let's take your question. >> why don't you think trump will acceptthat is a good question. i didn't have any answer to it whatsoever. there's probably a political answer to it. my role in everything happening is f focusing on the data i'm not going to dive in the political w piece of it. i will tell you i've runwice in my state of rhode island. i lost the statewide primary by 3000 votes and it hurt to concede that resected him to concede that race it was ugly it was an ugly race in intensely personal but i did. that is what our democracy looks like. but i hope as we move forward out of 2020 we can get our elections back to a more civil

and responsible way of conducting ourselves dealing with the impact of losing progress either republican or democrat? am a registered republican. >> did you run as a republican? ask mike to run to my first when i started a political party of rhode 2009. after challenging the access laws and federal courts to get them declared unconstitutional we needed someone to run for governor who got at least 5% of the boat that ended up being me i got six and half percent. and then i realized i was pretty good at the campaigning and i had a lot of ideas someone to implement. i also realize in a couple of years between 2010 and 2014 working via a third party was not goi work it was too hard to get traction people cannot but their head around what it means to be anything other than democrat or republican.

and in rhode island, i am a reformer i like to see change. rhode island is heavily democrat stat you cannot affect change within the democratic you have to operate outside the machinery and that is why i'm a republican. ♪ c-span's "washington journal," our live form involvement new to discuss latest issues in government politics and public policy. from washington and across the country. ♪ coming up friday morning dan with a national committee to preserve social security and medicare talks about the future of the program and light of recent statements by president biden and former pre tr legal issues facing the former president as he runs for another term with mike davis found it president of the article three project. see spans "washington journal" during the conversation alive at 7:00 a.m. eastern friday morning on c-span. she spent now or online at c-span.org.

>> tonight on c-span2 a look at u.s. strategy in the pacific island region. and then sent latest chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell speak on the senate floor about a two state israelis and palestinians. let us all be state and local election officials testimony on preparations and security head of the november general electiing up tonight on cspan2. on friday ahead of st. patrick's day, house speaker mike johnson host president biden the irish prime minister also known. the n friends of ireland coverage starts at 1:30 p.m. eastern on c-span c-span now our free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. ♪ c-span issue unfiltered view of government we are funded by these television companies and more including. >> are you thinking this is just a community center? it is way more than that. comcast is partnering with 1000 community centers charge to

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