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with these other television providers giving you a front-row seat to democracy. >> now a discussion on technology and government policy featuring biden administration cabinet officials and members of congress speakers address the issues of artificial intelligence and potential ban on the tiktok video app during their remarks. this is about two hours. >> all right. welcome back, everyone. if you're coming in grab a seat because you're not going to want to miss this. i think everyone in this room is aware but, you know, you probably have friends who don't know so make sure you know about your daily ai plus newsletter that i where with my coauthor ryan who is also around and i'm pleased to announce the first details of our upcoming ai plus summit. so last year we did two summits one here in washington, d.c. here in this building and one in

san francisco. and then back from san francisco on december 17th and the reason of events matter. axios events are the way that we continue our conversation with you our audience and with news makers and it really does complement what we are able to do each day. one of the things that i like is you're able to start a broad conversation, b talk about how things are going but then check back and our next speaker is someone who did appear at our ai plus summit last year but we invited him back. he wanted to come back to talk about how things are going and you also may have heard in the news once or twice for nonai related issues so please help me welcome homeland secretary coalejandro mayorkas. pp[applause] >> i caught that last clip.

[laughter] >> so when we've talked a few times about ai but before this was all kind of -- talk a little bit about why these projects, why did you start where you're starting? >> so the 3 pilot projects we have commenced, the use of ai to assist in criminal investigations to assist in training of refugee and asylum officers and assist local communities in developing mitigation plans with respect to natural disasters. we are seeking to demonstrate how ai can advance our mission and noton just incrementally but significantly and depending on the outcome of these pilots it

will shape and educate us about how we can employ ai in a number of our domains. >> and one to have issues is figuring out is the technology ready, is it private or secure, the other is having the talent to create it and that's challenge for all government agencies. the last time i saw you you were in silicon valley, you guys were trying to hire, i think, 50 was the goal experts in ai to form kind of an ai cor perform how is that going, have you been able to hire some of the folks? >> we have. how many responses do you think we've received since that -- >> if you'd asked me then i would have said not many but i think 50,000 tech workers are looking for jobs so i think you might be okay? >> so we have gotten 2,000 responses, 2,000 applications for 50 positions for technology experts, we are incredibly

excited. i do think it's important -- >> it's great for the government. it's great for the 2,000 people competing for the positions. one of the issues and you heard me speak to this. one to have issues that we discussed at that engagement with people was how do we close the divide, the financial divide inbetween what an individual and what an expert can achieve in the private sector versus one can earn and the conversation of the government is very different than financial, so there was, of course, the stability of earning in the government but i'm not exactly sure how one would monetarily quantify a sense of fulfillment and an ability to impact people's lives in a very significant way. >> assume, i'm sure they'll be those but let's say things go

really well and wow, this really can help us, paint a picture of what your department could be doing better and differently a few years from now if it can really harness the power of ai? >> we are using begin rattive ai to assimilate an interview of refugee or asylum applicant. the real live person will be the new asylum and use ai in the role of the applicant. we have trained to simulate how an actual applicant responds to questions to his close private

information. difficulty in disclosing experiences that are traumatic. it's breath take and the machine has been trained by our officers and their experience, so we have that, we will develop capabilities beyond the 3 pilots. we are using artificial intelligence at our border to detect anomalies in commercial trucks, passenger vehicles to detect whetherme an individual s being smuggled with precursor chemicals or manufactured fentanyl are being smuggled. there's not a domain of the department of homeland and the domain is quite vast and diverse that we could not use and we learned how to use it responsibly and from a privacy

perspective and that's the key to what we are trying to do with the using responsibly understanding its risks. >> we talked about two of the biggest areas, one is how do investigations modernizing. i think your department came into existence after 911. , from what i recall, you could not search for two keywords. i understand there's a lot of possibility for how ai can monitor more, can draw connections that a human might miss. what is your biggest worry? how do you see it going wrong and making sure that you correct for that? the worst case scenario? not the bad guy. >> let me give you an example of

connectivity. one of the other pilots is homeland security investigations, criminal investigative agency within immigration and customs enforcement. they investigate property theft, human smuggling, online child exploitation. there investigative reports are not collected in a database.therefore one has an investigative team that has there investigative reports in los angeles, california. there is another investigative team investigating a different crime, presumably different people across the country, in new york or across the world -- in austria. all of those investigative reports in a data set, and all of a sudden what we think are separate and distinct

organizations have a connectivity, because we can draw that linkage. that is incredibly powerful. what worries me about ai is it is adversarial use. it's potential for harm. that is one element. the other element is the fact that someone who seeks to do harm can use artificial intelligence and generative ai specifically to advance their nefarious mission. >> are you seeing deliberate misinformation? the threat is a problem if you are surfing the web but also a pretty big problem for intelligence that is 99% ai nonsense. >> some disinformation. everyone is aware of the phenomenon of data poisoning where one seeks to poison the data set upon which the machine

relies. we are seeing it in other areas. i think we spoke about this the last time that you and i engaged . the national center for missing and exploited children. using generative ai to fabricate images of children online and pick them as exploited when they may not be real children, whereas they may be real children and the images fabricated to display and exploitation that did not occur. that sends investigators on an errant mission and pernicious. >> we talked about the technology. your job more broadly, technology can help with some of these things.

-- >> estimate credibility those

credibility determinations to technology? they require judgments, they require the ability to discern facial features and other credibility's or lack of it. i would be reticent to turn that over to a machine. >> when you look at your overall job, and you have had a fair bit of criticism -- i know, i know. what would you do differently at the border if you could change everything? what would you like to see the policy be? is it a money issue? is it a policy change? people talk all the time about problems. i am curious, what is a problem and what would your solutions be?

>> the way that you pose the question would call upon me to make some fundamental points. you have to understand that there are more than 80 million displaced people in the world today. what causes individuals to leave their home countries? i would actually frame it more poignantly. what causes a parent, a loving devoted parent, to send a child alone in the hands of the smuggler to traverse multiple countries only to reach the southern border of the united states, which is dangerous terrain? that is a reflection of the human condition and what people in different parts of the world are suffering. that, when you speak of what i would like to see, i would like to see that tackled.

let's talk about the immediate situation at the border. we have a solution at our fingertips. does it secure all the challenges? of course not, but a bipartisan group of senators reached a very significant compromise. it would advance for the first time in decades. our work in addressing the regular migration that reaches our borders in a way that we haven't since 1996. it would resource our department. we are a preliminarily financially starved department. >> you have a couple of months of funding so you don't have to close the door. >> it is a cause for a sign of relief that we make it for another day. we are terribly, terribly underfunded.

this gets complicated, but a quick snapshot. when one applies for asylum at our border, one must meet an initial screening threshold of credible fear. it is purposefully low so that we don't errantly send someone back to their place of persecution. it depends on demographics, but generally speaking 75% of the people who claim credible fear meet the initial threshold. the determination is a higher bar, 20% to 25%. that is quite a disparity. the time in between that initial screening is seven plus years. what happens? people are able to work, they get work authorization.

many have u.s. citizen children. they attend our places of worship, schools, integrate into communities. it becomes difficult 7, 8, 9 years later to go into the community, apprehend a family, and remove them. it explains in part why we have 11.5 million undocumented people in the united states. the legislation, bipartisan legislation would fund us to reduce that time, that seven years, to as little as under 90 days. what happens is attending migrants risk calculation, do i spend my life savings? do i place my life and the life of my little ones in the hands of smugglers? only to be returned to my home country within 90 days? the risk calculus changes. it changes the entire dynamic of

the regular migration. we have that. we have it. we have the funding. $19 billion. there are 3 million cases approximately in the immigration court case backlog. >> let of that could use all today through executive action -- what of that could use all today through executive action? >> by administrative action we cannot fund our department. that was $19 billion for our department for 100 immigration judges for the department of state to work in the international arena with other countries. remarkable that something that delivers so much success is being sacrificed so that the problem can be used. >> something that you said a moment ago, you mentioned what

is actually going through the mind of a family who leaves the country. a lot of members talk about we should make it harder for people to reach our shores. when we talk about a parent sending a child by themselves with the smuggler, we would have to make america a pretty bad place to live for the things that prompted them to do that would keep them from taking that risk? >> so, the parent calculates relative harms. it is not a question that a parent asks in the abstract. i cannot send my daughter to walk to school because of fear

of what she will suffer on that walk. it is in comparison to that that a parent sends a daughter. when we speak of making it more difficult, of course there is the effort to address the root cause of why people make that journey. that is at the root. what we need other countries to do is a regional challenge that requires a regional solution. we need other countries to enforce their laws of humanitarian relief and enforce their enforcement protocols at their respective borders. >> i would love to talk about this more. i know there is more to talk about now that we have technology and immigration. we hope to catch up at a future event. >> me too.

thank you, very much. ♪ >> next, another view from the top segment with nicholas johnson. >> good afternoon. the second half of an excellent afternoon. thank you for tuning in online. thanks to our partners who have made today possible and today's conversation. welcome to what's next. thank you for being here. what starts a big picture? i want to talk about the history

and their view of capitalism and how that fits into the company's aspirations. >> i'm happy to testify, good afternoon, everybody. for those of you who don't know the international food and beverage foundation, think about our company as a different kind of food and beverage company. i mean it is a company that believes performance and purpose are hardwired codependent. if you think about our company, if you go back in the history of our company, you go back 50 years and one of the founding leaders of our company 50 years ago made quite a foundational speech, at the time a groundbreaking speech, talking about the idea that the company had a dual mission. economic mission, serious about

the business, but equally a societal mission. this dual project was the core of the foundation of the business. i head the foundational belief in the company was important. our mission is pretty bold, food to as many people as possible. that manifests in the company in two forms. one is what we sell which is fundamentally good food and beverage. biggest plant-based company in the world, in north america. big beverage, big coffee, big specialized nutrition business. equally important how we do it matters to us. we want to of course have a good business, but we want to use our business as a force for good. how we run the business and how that manifests is important to us. food is governance.

that hardwired some really important -- >> a point on that. my experience has been relatively small and newer corporations. to hear something as old and as large as yours i think it is putting your money where your mouth is. literally built as a corporation we have to do it like that? >> exactly. 80% of the news and the company globally, including north america. a century of government structure that requires a certain amount of accountability and transparency on our economic and societal measures. it essentially pushes the business to run business the right way. sort of the ultimate expression

of capitalism. you are correct, it is not typically associated with big businesses, but we are big corp. certified. it has an important impact on our business. fiscally, drives a certain amount of accountability and transparency in the business. beyond that it is something that we believe is a competitive advantage. increasingly with our consumers it is highly, highly relevant. the third part which is under advertised is what it does for our people. a tight labor market, which we are in, with engagement matters. this is a real pride point for our people, a real pride point. the last thing is it is not a static thing because every three years you renew.

it pushes the business to evolve and change and be better. one example is methane. we are a big dairy business. part of that is methane. we have really ambitious targets to be better. we committed to reducing the methane admissions from our dairy supply chain by 30% by 2030. i can tell you that it's not easy. we don't know what mechanism we are going to use, but it's pushing us to innovate. innovate at a really fundamental level on the farm. farm management practices, farmer partnerships, everything down to how we feed cow. we are experiencing with seaweed as a food additive that can fundamentally reduce -- >> that is the first time that cows and seaweed has been used in a sentence.

we talk about sustainability goals and aspirations. the more that we can bring that into the real world is useful. there is nothing more real than what you feed your cows. >> there is a number of experiments that we've run as a business to push ourselves to be better. one is food additives and how that interacts with our farm supply. we have a partnership with cornell university, which is a storied academic institution for research, and we are experimenting. the piece we are pushing more in our business is partnership to go after some of these bigger goals. if you think about our business and how we sell -- we are fundamentally a partnership business. we sell through retailers. a lot of that is public and private. a few examples.

the infant formula crisis in this country, that was the infant formula crisis in the united states, we were proud to partner with the white house for formula and bring in 2 million units of infant formula from the european business into the u.s. we are increasingly pushing our partnership as a model. we were really proud in the last 18 months to partner with the white house on the conference for hunger health and nutrition. north of a $20 million pledged to increase research, collect improvement, and as recently as last week yogurt was approved as fundamentally a category that we can claim around positive impact on type 2 diabetes. increasingly expanding the model of this performance that

fundamentally we think of as the future of business. >> nutrition. this is an interesting time for this line of work with advances around weight loss. from your vantage point, what is next? >> it is stunning that it has taken us that long to talk about glp-1, but thanks for asking about it. food and beverages, it is an incredibly dynamic moment. i would say that the way that we think about the future is broadly in two time frames. one is what we call, what are the big macro trends with the consumer today that we can address. our yogurt business, for example. gut health, high-protein, low in sugar. you would agree big macro trends in food that we can address. that we can serve through our

brains, which is good for society and good for our business. it is no surprise that when we serve those needs business performance. >> you are looking to wear those two things intersect? >> yes. >> before we get the hook here, we mentioned backstage at the secret labs around the world to develop cool things. tele school stuff -- tell us cool stuff that is coming on the horizon. >> we do have the labs. we have one in colorado, one in shanghai, one across europe. the research and development people are incredibly talented. maybe two that i can let you in on that may be available upstairs for those of you who would like to try it. back to the notion of trends, snacking. snacking and food and beverage in the united states for sure is a trend on the move.

we have the capability and have launched a range of products that have yogurt and food prepackaged. >> i ate the entire thing. not just because you are a sponsor. >> the coo -- the cacao and nuts, and you have a snack to go at home or purely on the go. it is harder than you might think from a packaging and food science perspective. maybe the other one that is clearly a trend in the united states at the moment is coffee. we have a big coffee business. cold foam is certainly a trend in coffee. what we are seeing with consumers who have that experience at home. we brought a new to the world experience where you can

literally, on the top of your coffee, add a cold foam experience which is on hot or cold coffee. >> it is pretty good. both of those things i think our upstairs. don't go up yet, we have more conversations to come. thank you. ♪ >> now, it is me, axios' one big

thing host. ♪ >> good afternoon area i hope that everyone is having a good time. we have an hour left in our programming today. i'm excited that you will be part of axios history with the next conversation. this interview will be our first for my podcast, one big thing. this interview and your applause. i would be remiss if i didn't say please subscribe where ever you get your podcasts. the chairman of the senate energy and natural resources committee, the senator from west virginia, help me give an enthusiastic welcome for senator joe manchin. [applause] thank you, senator. >> i didn't know that this is

your premier. [laughter] >> welcome to what's next. we want to talk about what's next in energy, but i want to start with what's next in congress. you've often taken a position prioritizing bipartisan dealmaking. you said that your plan isn't to run for reelection. i wanted to ask, when we think about mitt romney and kyrsten sinema, all of the people leaving, who is taking up the mantle in your place? >> there are so much talent on both sides of the aisle. the reason that i've always been bipartisan in my life, i did everything working with people who sometimes agreed and sometimes didn't agree. i was 35 before i got into politics. i never thought that i was always right or you were always wrong. i was looking to make something better. coming here, i thought it is the

big leagues. the united states senate. the house of delegates, secretary of state, and governor, now i'm moving up getting into the big leagues. then i saw the squabbling going back and forth and everyone trying to identify the other side as the enemy. i've always tried to work together. the filibuster is what makes the country different than any other place in the world. >> who else has that attitude that you described? >> i was entrenched in what i believe so strongly. i am not a party person, ok? if you are democrat or a republican, i looked at you as a person elected to represent the people from your state. that you really want to do good, and if we work together we will help each other do better. i won't name names because there are good people that you can probably figure out, they didn't have to take the flak that i was taking.

i was the greatest spirit -- spear catcher for 14 years. i really think that there should be term limits. i believe in term limits. i never did believe in term limits years ago. southern west virginia, 200 or 300 people in a town hall like this. she says, would you support term limits? i didn't think that that was something that we should do, because we would lose the expertise and people who have knowledge. i went through all of the reasons why you wouldn't have term limits. she said think about it this way. if we had term limits we would get one good term out of you. i swear, i had no comeback. i have been floored ever since. she was correct.

one good turn. 18 years for the supreme court. one six year term for president. two six year terms for the senate. six two year terms for the house is more than enough. more than enough. i didn't have a six-year sentence. >> we have been talking about a movement of voters in the middle who aren't feeling heard and satisfied with the choices. do you see any realistic path to a presidency that doesn't go to joe biden or donald trump? >> i looked at it so many different ways. it is a very challenging thing. it goes to the house of representatives if it doesn't get to 70. there a lot of things in play. i believe as a country, you're

dealing with a duopoly in washington. it is a business model. the business model is based around division. we want you to pick a side. if i can make the other side an enemy you will get more active, get more money. billions and billions and more are coming in. they don't want the system to be changed. there is no reason for us to sit down and fix things and work together because it doesn't play into the business model. i think there needs to be a third-party movement to bring people back. 55% to 60% of us would like to see the grand old party be grand again, the democratic party to be responsible and compassionate. >> what would that look like?

you said the system is set up for two parties. how does the third-party movement get in? >> joe biden cannot win unless you pick someone. if you are happy with everything you have and the way people have gone, i've said it before, i love my country too much to support the vote for donald trump. we tried twice to impeach him, and then he got mad. we had a good relationship. i thought the democrats were wrong to impeach him. it was a political trial we didn't have the votes for. his personality, it would give him more gravitas and energy, and it did. maybe if you send certain -- censored him we could bring him back more reasonable.

joe biden has gone too far left. >> what -- >> then you work to bring him back. every time you hear him talk, whether it is energy or the border, whatever it may be. the thing that discourages me is border security bill that we had. in september the republicans said we are not going to talk about any aid to ukraine or for taiwan or israel until we secure our border. i agree with my republican friends. let's secure our border and then we can deal with -- and we had the ukraine aid. this is ridiculous us not supporting people for what we

are willing to die for. mitch mcconnell, one of the better human beings that we have in the senate. he is very religious and very m oral -- he has a moral compass. james sometimes cannot get to the final deal because it is not good enough. we had a good piece of legislation. donald trump said something, not a good bill. we started getting people get wiggly. i'd never seen anything like that in my life. these are my friends. one person scare them away from doing what's right. -- scared them away from doing what's

right. >> how can they do that? >> that is why i am looking at term limits now more than before. the one good term they had left is coming to an end, they would have been able to do the right thing more so than thinking about the future, this and that. honestly, this is not the best job i've ever had. >> what was? >> governor. if you are in public service and you can be governor, take it. you get up every morning and you can help someone, you can change someone's life. >> are you going to run for governor? >> no, i'm looking forward to my next life where i can help people not make the same mistakes. the knowledge that i have that i can share that i think will be helpful. this'll be the first time in 42 years that i've had control of my schedule.

for 42 years i've never been able to schedule anything with the kids or even a vacation at times. that his public life. >> let's talk about energy. as of today, you were encouraging president biden in an op-ed yesterday to celebrate the administration's energy wins. you have been a critic of the biden administration's energy policy. if you could narrow those frustrations down to axios length, what is frustrating with the biden administration? >> implementation of the bill. that bill, i couldn't vote for the bbb bill. that bill, when i didn't vote for it it was killed. everyone was mad at me. the democrats across the 3 months later i come back and do this deal.

the bipartisan infrastructure bill was pulled out because we needed infrastructure but they were trying to throw the good, bad and the ugly into one because they think that helps get through. it was just too big. you and i have been saying to a certain extent, a couple of years different. anyway, i grew up with john kennedy. it's not what the country can do for you but what you can do for your country. i don't believe that. i can't do. that's what happened there. russia used energy as a weapon and we couldn't help our ally. >> you were talking about that

yesterday, though. energy security. >> ever in the history of the united states of america. we are producing energy than any place in the world. we are energy secured. >> to your point -- >> when have you heard the president say we are energy secured? first time in 30 years we ever had a piece of legislation that some of the money dedicated with 34 and a half trillion dollarsrs of debt that we have. take credit. we did it. you had to sign it. he had to sign that. they knew the frustration i had was implementation. they are trying to implement a bill they didn't pass. we passed a bill and we try to bring back in because --

>> when you think about, what to your mind is a sticking point with implementation? >> ev, electric vehicles. 3750. if we sourced and produced the critical minerals in north america or countries we have free trade agreements with so we are not held hostage from countries that are foreign concern. then 40% the first year. i said i will work with you on credits as long as they are manufacturing back to america, that's all. we had the north america free trade agreement and wto. so what happened there, 40% first year and 80% has to be produced in our country or in

arbitrarily cut in half. 20%. they want to get more ev quicker and we are supporting china. >> you talk about i implementation. i want to ask you one last question, what do you think, we talked about energy, what else do you think joe biden needs to be saying right now? >> i just think -- you know, mr. president, i want you to be the person in 2020, you always making a deal. i've worked with you. now all of a sudden -- you already been pushed to the decide and 20% and there's nothing wrong with that. you will have a hard time

winning if you're way over here because that's not where most of erus are.an we want energy. we want clean air. we are producing oil and gas than anywhere in the world. we are producing more wind and solar than anywhere in the world. we are doing it all. take credit. don't be afraid to say we had to build pipelines to safely move products when they aret putting them on trains and trucks they are more dangerous. just say, listen, i will try it. right now this is the best we can do and we are doing better. they produce 80% more, 80% more pollution when they are

producing oil than the united states of america. we are thehe cleanest productio. it's better off for the climate, world climate. we know the resources, the money they get from that, had to come around the world, terrorist support. keep the prices up. people don't want to say we are producing oil in america because we are afraid that people get mad at you but they get mad when gas was 5 a gallon. basically living in horrific conditions because you want to drive an ev. we had to do it here. better technology, better working conditions, all these things. i'm just trying to find that

balance. i'm okay. [laughter] >> okay. well, unfortunately we are going to have to lever it at that, senator joe manchin. [laughter] >> let me ask -- [laughter] >> let me ask you one quick question then, this is just conversations we were having earlier today about permitting reform legislation. >> we are going to get it. i'm determined. >> do you plan -- >> we are working with republican, friends and everything. >> what do you think the sticking point is? >> you have two national campaigns going on. if one of the national for the people that are running for president, so something that they don't like because it's not good enough, you know, the constitution -- we are trying to get a more perfect union. we are trying to make a more perfect bill. we have to do something to get something done.ge 2032 and all goes away if we

don't get the things where they can stand on their own. but it's just balancing and you have -- the bored has to be taken care of. ukraine. we can't let ukraine two through this. if they come to the spring and we haven't helped ukraine, god help us. the worst atrocity in the history that yourst children and grandchildren will be reading about. >> senator manchin, thank you. >> appreciate it. thank you all. [applause] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> bruising our axios pro reporter ashley. [applause] >> hi, everyone. thank you for being with us this afternoon and sticking around. our next guest will give us a look into how theaf house is

handling a lot of the issues we've covered here today. future of tech and how that intersects with the future of we know.orce as he's the vice chair ofth the hoe republican conference and congressman from the great state of utah congressman blake morris. welcome to axios. [applause] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> welcome, congressman, glad you could be with us today? >> great to be here, thank you. >> yeah, absolutely. i'm going get started right away with big news of the week last week, the house passed a bill that could lead to the ban of tiktok in the united states. i want to know a little bit more on what you said on the issue and why you think it's important and do you think the senate is going to act? >> i would argue -- i would articulate not a fan but we are going to make it sold, divest --

>> you've gotten a lot of calls. >> you know what, it became public. 50 to 0 out of committee. .. .. .. the quibbling about certain things. the part that i think it's think isimportant for people to recognize. i did not hear much happen quickly, i get it. think about what the u.s. did with respect. so with china's infrastructure

they make phones, the make towers, and they make all that stuff a lot of countries around the world they use it. they've been successful at permeating a lot of these different markets. the u.s. categorically rejected it that got a lot of other countries, some allied countries to build a coalition to also reject whileou wife from infiltrating their system. keith croft was the trump administration. he's an individual that has been the tech world for a lot of things. this is something that he led. what was our concern there? they were going to ball access data. access information the communist party was going to have more information we wanted them too. it's completely correlated to tiktok.. it is just different because it was nott infrastructure. it was an app. it is in the bylaws producingng

the regulations. this type of company can, when the ccp wants to they can access this information. quick for your fears unsecured on the app based on the potential for them to be sharing information with the ccp or based on intel briefings you participated and begged if the thing that if already happened that brought you a lot of concern about the security of the apt? cooks my biggest concern is what could ultimately happen. what is taken place -- mike -- s been a few instances where tiktok gets a bad impression there is awareness around it. all the sadness and effort we are different. they have showed up to congressional hearings but i've met with groups that are involved in the management tiktok. they are doing their best to try to be transparent and say we are creating a barrier. we are not allowing this

information to be transferred. the fact the ccp can force them to do it is our biggest concern. it is very narrowly written. this is an app that folks love. but advertisers log. many industries -- we are great if it continues we just cannot have the threat of a president xi, the chinese, sparta sank we went the information now and force that to happen. >> can you tell us what you are hearing from the senate side? do you think they're going to act? >> predicting what the senate does is way above my pay grade. [laughter] we just pass a tax bill with yes it's only a few from each party decided not to support this very, very good very bipartisan tax bill they are struggling to get that part finalized. it's tough to predict. i do not think the argument some

will make his first freedom of speech are warranted in this case there will be pushback. fifty -- zero vote there is a fundamental difference of body of congress just 100 yards away from us. we have trust issues. she might've already known that though it left back. >> it goes both ways look at a supplemental or public and seem to do with senatorub manchin. that don't devote in the house and vice versa there's a lot of it. it's been one of my big surprises in congress. "i might fourth year so my second term were these two bodies of congress operate very differently. >> too different. >> i soon missed by cap next the pictures and other topic it's going to both sides of congress to agree on something that is ai which is on everyone's mind in

this room. especially the last couple of years. the senate has done a lot of ground work on ai for the house ai working group is getting off the ground. where do you stand on this issue? what yousu think the house should do? do you see bipartisan legislation on a i anytime in the next couple years? exam bullish on ai and general i'm bullish on congress forgot some a point we are going to bet behind the curve a little bit. sometimes that is okay but remember writing a paper it might public policy masters program. the time whose regulation needed in social media with campaigns. should they have the gas tax associates them or not? years, ears, ears pass bill was should of had this figured outut per week new technology congress is behind. in one regard that is okay. and another that can't beat what were reliably have to be

willing. doing great job with great bipartisan conversations. i went on a bipartisan trip to great britain, keep in mind the google facilities out there are those the first hit by actually at a tiny little grass but what ai could do. they showed how they were mapping it. apparently we were able to do that before. we did the content, we need the make up another map get the show what we can create a mutation but what we could be doing with respect to the structure notch e the content of the makeup. it's a fascinating experience. i'm bullish on this using ever positive. there will always be the negative side in using it for things nefarious or unhealthy for our society. but congress is to get serious we are trying to at least create the discussion around and candidly it's all been pretty

bipartisan. >> do you use any applications in your everyday life or for work? have you tried anything else that wasve particularly useful r you? [laughter] >> let's see. of the important part is my bracket for march madness. i've got to make sure that the probe probably help me predicted i'm a bit of a drive run. i could use some help on ai there. no i do not have any's specifics outside of a basic instagram account. might press secretary they are here today. i don't have passwords. so what's posting. [laughter] we avoid any viral moments. >> is probably smart. speaking of being smart about technology you are a father of four. let's talk about how the role of technology in children's lives. whether it should be up to congress to make rules around

them. whether the app themselves should be setting their own limits. how are you thinking about this repulsive perspective? quester. >> is a tough what i'm from utah. if you dig in a little bit our governor has been on the forefront of driving this little bit. it gets to the point where we are doing too much. the government is doing too much and have to put the brakes on a little bit but our children need to be protected. they are having access to stufff too young and they are not ready for. we are just trying to find that sweet spot to allow for freedom of speech. allow private sector to operate and work on theiriv own without massive government interference. we are seeing the worst of the worst situation with kids. we have calls of potential suicide and things like that when they could not open up a tiktok account.

i am really interested in utah taking a lead on this we are the youngest state in the nation. sure there is transparency. they are going to be successful it's clear these are consumer driven applications social media even with all the negative it creates is done aat more positie for industry and things like that. our kids are going through a lot of mental health issues i have a loving world, to eight -year-olds and 2-year-old you see a quickly and easily get addicted to a device add-on application the whole world is opened up to them in the content they can have access too. might little boys got autism. he is an amazing kid and basically taught himself to read my wife and i cannot take credit for. it was largely because he was using a really cool programs on his ipad. it's all been positive for the most part. but then you see him on like a

switch it's a game that does not add a lot of intrinsic value to him. but he get so addicted to them so we have to regulate that. primary should be done at the family level. but government does have a role here to where we put the brakes on and make sure it doesn't run amok our kids are facing a real mental health tragedy. >> congress has stalled on a privacy debate on the federal level but where people sleep extra potentially happening is on the kids privacy. we are deafly going to still be tracking thatt pickwick sets a good point i will be really brief but people are so surprised the tiktok built last week has been in the works were lisbon hearings on its and things like that but actually happened relatively fast and ra. >> it happened really i fast. >> we only have a little time left. ie wanted to get into something fun but would like to do one fun things to wrap things up at our

eevents. you don't get to work on the hill in a car do you? what is your right of choice? >> i write a fasfa. it's nice italian machinery at my buddies collet moped, scooters i have to reminder this is by far much more advanced. i brought it back here in my freshman term the joy it brought to people as i would pull up progress through the only one? anyone else on a fasfa's are. >> mr. >> is a staffer summer that has one and parks near me. a couple of my colleagues have a harley with similar engines which is a little bit different on the aerodynamics. i member pulling up i saw a democrat laugh at me and saw a republic at laugh at me right as i was parking. >> it is bipartisan rubrics i think i'm doing more to bring this place together. and the parking is amazing.

so i'll buzz around on that except not in the winter but. >> i love that. i love commuting on a bike myself i support the fasfa lifestyle with that we jumped at wrap it up we are out of time but thank you so much for joining axios. >> i did not know you had a picture.e. >> thank you. >> appreciate it, thank you. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ up next and the view from the top a segment with nicholas johnson. >> all right, folks a deep deeph we are in the home stretch. a big finish of what's coming up soon. before that i want to thank bank of america which has been a partner of axios since day one. the bill with us in the very beginning, more than seven years of very excited to welcome for a view from the top conversation the director of the bank of america insert. come on out. ♪ >> thank you for being here. >> it's great to be >> big

picture tell me a little bit about what blight bank off america, what are you up to? looks bank of america institute is to leverage all of the data to cover insight we talk about all the data from a consumer perspective we talk about 69 million consumer clients we talk 57 million verified digital users. we are talking but a lot of fun stuff. what are the long term goals trying to figure out what to do with all that? >> that's a great question. what we are trying to do be art very intentionally not tied to a particular bank products. what we want to do is uncover insights. share them not only for our employees they can share them with their clients, but also just share it with the public. so policy makers, communities,

individuals. lsin terms of what our objective is it's not tied to actual products. we do not sell any of the data but we had a conversation about that earlier today. we want to make sure people whether it's individuals, companies, are better informed so they can make better decisions. that is simply what it is. >> what are you on the hunt for? are there specific issues or trends you are picking through the static? >> we have a lot of things to potentially look at. we really focus on the state of the consumer. the state of small businesses. we dig into other things like cybersecurity. we can dig into migration patterns. really the world is open. >> how do you pick and choose? how are you present with this wealth of daddy wake up in the morning and how will i even? >> we actually figured this out

by taking it from journalism. movement editorial board that is made up from all the lines of business senior management from across the bank. what we do in these editorial board meetings as we ask the question, what questions are you being asked? one of the issues people are talking about? i have never been in a real editorial board meeting i understand they are spirited. >> people have an opinion. [laughter] >> we get to take all w of that in. but date it did we have that's in the bank that can c help us provide context. help us provide insight too. >> satisfied that curiosity. >> what is really neat about it is we can go use that data and share it close to real time. lot of great that it comes out of the government.

>> it's a little late. >> and now for if we went to understand what is happening with thepp consumer how they hae responded to student loans having to pay back student loans. we can tell you that to accept her student loan repayment started back up again and october pickwick pulling out of the better you see the bank processing brady watch massive trendses two weeks after that happened they moved this to consumers. >> different aggregated amounts. we can identify which households were paying student loans are for the pandemic but one of the doing it now? has her spending increase or decrease what is about the deposit levels? >> a couple pieces you folks released recently on spending patterns. get awo little bit on that trens you are seeing. >> earlier talking about the need for paid leave and whatnot. this is it rather depressing a g

statistic from our data. where consumers bank of america customers, households are making childcare payments. there paying for child care. in january they were paying 32% more than they paid in 2019 on average. depressing, right? why does that matter? because of the impact it has on labor force participation. female labor is long-term high right now in the u.s. but we are number 27 out of 32 of industrialized that is horrible. remember to dore in terms of cot of childcare behind only new zealand. there are real implications what that means for closing the gap in getting more women to back ut consists of visceral explanation what can sometimes be a vague policy discussion. >> here's the other thing we look at our data. we look at those households that

are making childcare payments we are also seeing is a much higher rate of what is that mean? when you are looking at continuous i income from a particular company and switch and don't have one there is a much higher rate i was essay three -- four timeses higher for people making childcare payments. because then the parents not pas women but usually women are not investing in their careers are andnot getting their promotion s not set them up. >> bring some good news. >> only the next decade is going to be $30 trillion of wealth that gets transferred from traditional boomers to younger women. that means women are going to be controlling more wealth than they ever had before. what's his take a step back on consumer trends that huge things we are following is the health and state of the economy. as you said we have a lot of government data for two quartert ago. where the trends you're seeing a

more real-time? >> two quarters ago we saw it last year the consumer was resilient theys were spending, they were spending everything was great. it january and february what we are seeing is consumer spending, card spending per household was up and fed right down to three tenths in january. what it means is a characterization for the consumer rightfo now is softer than it was last year but it is still stable. digging into that a little bit more lowering income households. they are moderating theirri growth, there is spending growth this is despite the fact we are seeing their incomes increased at a higher rate in the amount of money coming into their accounts is coming up faster than ever has. but they're spending is for this have a clue what to be watching. >> will you be watching? the data point they're keeping an eye on three months from now, we are in an election year. thee talk of the economy is one

of the most important things we can talk very. >> were always looking at spending. relook at wage growth. wage growth is the most important thing for us to understand, are people getting paid more? do t they have jobs? are they working enough? we also get credit utilization. you think about it with inflation yes is coming down but our people turning to their crediteo card to fund what they need to? but we are seeing is no. we are not seeing people use it more. >> they have enough of their wage income to live their lives. that will be positive. >> again they characterization is the consumer is softer then it was but it is still stabler the other statistic i think gets people, this is not depressing i promise. when you look at checking and savings account balancess today they are 40% higher than they were before the pandemic across all income levels. the stories we were hearing over

the last year as we read these headlines and say is this what we are seeing? the stimulus 40% more money than across all income levelss and it was before the academic reflected softer and still supported. >> softer, supportive, stable over. >> you've got a massive dataset was the coolest wackiest most interesting thing you found the pilot numbers? >> is my favorite thing. again we saw a headline the reason labor market was soft and they were not participate they were leaving that traditional labor market and going to be gig workers full-time. so we were saying is that really true? we were able to go and look at all of our customers and he was getting income from the gig economy. what we found was yes there was a tripling in the number of

people who were getting gig income. but they were not getting it every month. just p under two times a year tr people were getting gig income. what is interesting is if you look at the way that was working when people were doing it on the labor market started to return lower income wages went up all the sudden people were not participating in the gig economy anymore. ratherom than being a replacemet what we are seeing it as a supplement for jobs anecdotally we've not been able to find this exactly in the data yet. younger people are saying i don'tyi need to go on this trip but they are doing is saying i am going to go to a couple ride shares. i'm going to deliver progress to t coupled giga jobs forget the thing i want to go back. liz, thanks much of being a big thanks to bank of america for making today possible.

♪ ♪ ♪ payer hands together for hsinchu transportation. >> hi everybody. i'm short you're wondering why i brought my surfboard is actually not a surfboard. this is a propeller for the future of electric aviation. to hear more about it please join me and welcoming the founder and ceo joe. ♪ welcome, thank you.

thank you very much for being here. "rolling stone" call to the orval and wilbur wright of aviation. [laughter] not sure what that says about you. no pressure on that though. i think we need to let people know what we are talking about. we have a video that i think we're going to queue up. can you walk us through what we are seeing here? tell us>> a little bit about th. >> are building a new age of aviation and transportation we are not just building the alaircraft. we are also building a new type of company and aviation company that d designs, builds, tests ad with every single component on the aircraft we've been flying this aircraft at full scale since 2017. so we really understand the operational characteristics of it but we have designed it to be

dramatically quieter. here it with mayor adams had a spring one of our aircraft out and show us and new york state room to showcase the acoustic profile of the aircraft. have people in manhattan get to experience the revolutionary technology firsthand. as you see here of some of the acoustic profile without impacting that we can serve communities without impacting them. i was talking about we are also building next generation manufacturing company. the design the vertical integration we built is really, really exciting. >> fantastic. i want to understand where this idea came from. i understand you grew up in a pretty remote part of california. i did not think there were

remote parts of california. apparently there are. how did that inspire you to think about a different way of traveling? >> i had a very unique upbringing paris born and raised off the grid before being off the grid was cool. this was no electricity on a sport we did not even have a telephone. it was a very pivotal moment when i was four years old i got to drive on the back of the bulldozer is retrenched in the telephone service. it was a very rural remote upbringing. is pivotal foras me it taught me deep understanding of the way the world works. and how things work. it's also a long way from school. i lived in the place i love the prelude to a school that really inspiring teachers that i cannot dream of going to school anywhere else. butwa it was a long trip t school. i would drive with my parents my

parents will both work so i would take the city bus home, a couple city buses than a long walk home. he gave me a lot of time to dream about open better way to get from a to b and i dreamt of being able to fly. an airplane did not work i live in this a meadow amongst the redwoods. you cannot build a runway in the mountains. helicopters were horrifically loud. got to figure out a better way toto bring flight to people's daily lives progress and you did regrets we are doing it, we have an incredible team. quick let's fast-forward the question is when and where will we be able to fly these things? what spot is the really exciting part thiss is not some science-fiction reality that's going to happenn far into the future it's happening right now. we've been doing the heavy lifting we've been flying at full scale since 2017 we have been working on certification with theor faa.

the progress we're making is really exciting. in may of 22 into begotten g1 which is staged for rg one base high-level rules. we've now concluded stage ii and stage iii we are working on stage forward just testing. that's really fantastic to see the progress we're making. we are suddenly putting point of the board testing every single system goes into building our aircraft with that plus 135 certificate and at 141 and 145, that allows us once we have tax certificate and production certificate we can watch our commercial passenger service. >> another element a parallel track to bringing this service i work with the department of defense. there we delivered our first aircraft to edwards air force base.

we just recently, today, we announce will be delivering our third and fourth aircraft to mcdowell in florida. we are really, really excited about the expanding partnership with the u.s. government across multiple different branches. bringing transformative new technology to government customers as well as consumers. >> only ask about this. why is the government and the department of defense specifically a good bridge to this technology? they are not commuting to work, right? also for us is incredibly valuable to be able to have an early customer. back in 2016 we began working

with defense innovation units. where one of the first projects small team of a handful of folks. we began working closely with them. with a few million dollar investment proved if an investment contract with them we parlayed that into tens of millions of dollars of venture capital which over time has now grown to the pointo we raise moe than $2 billion. lethis is a fantastic example of the public-private partnership work. support from that government a little bit of demand signal from the government grows and grows. which is been incredibly successful built and supported our industry. advance their mobility but

another important initiative. we are seeing these types of programs within the government. drive in thele next. >> for the average people in the audience i know you have a partnership with delta air lines. tell me like when i can fly in it? how much it is going to cost. honestly it looks like a rich man's toy. >> 's are two incredible things to thank you for bring up delta. there's a spectacular partner for us. we wrote thoughtful we chose our airline partner to launch our servicer in the u.s. delta holds customer service the customer experience at a very high regard. click cares about delivering a spectacular experience and

affordable experience. with new terminal infrastructure at jfk, laguardia and lax. new york and l.a. are critical launch markets for us. so what we have in the planning process part of the reason we went to new york with mayor adams was the infrastructure piece. being able to build the best in class infrastructure you can get off of your delta flight into out a joby fight as soon as possible. we are building vertical infrastructure at jfk and laguardia and lax to give that fantastic customer experience of tighten integration between your delta flight in your joby flight in terms of the cost will get a

flight from jfk to manhattan might take more than an hour on thee ground. some people live in new york city can take up to two hours. you can transform that to a seven minute flight we think that's a really exciting prospect. we also want to make it affordable something accessible to everyone. going to price that comparable to what you would pay for a taxi or an uber. quickset is dependent on having a lot of these things flying i presume, right? everything is about economies of scale. like are these going to be everywhere? books we are ramping up manufacturing capacity as fast as we can toward one of art and art largest investors. toad is working shoulder to shoulder with us since 2019 to design manufacturability and quality into our systems so we can ramp the production volume.

it's really important to frame what we are in this journey. we look at back in the days of automotive the automobile was progressively invented in 1870s and 1880s. production started in fits and starts through the 1890s. it wassn not until the early 19s or global automotive manufacturing really started to ramp. to date we've announce our goall we have a manufacturing client we have run rate of aircraft a month by the end of the year. so you asked whether it is going to be lots of these, right? today we produced 100 million automobiles a year. getting from 10 to 100 million is a lot of steps this is not going to happen in a year or

even five years this is going to be a graduate build of manufacturing capacity is moved to tenth two hundreds to thousands of aircraft a year. it is really exciting. it's the early days of a new mode of transportation. >> orville and wilbur wright. >> exactly at. [laughter] >> and we both understand the aircraft itself we have a couple of photos here. it will be helpful for you to tell us how they fly. describe these propellers what happens when it takest off and when it flies for. >> yes absolutely. it carries a pilot and four passengers. it takes off and lands vertically like a helicopter but it has a wing it can transition and fly efficiently like an airplane. and it flies at 200 miles an hour and since one of the critical pieces for the

economics is because it's flying so fast set up a call on the ground for your average of 20 miles at your leaving at 200 miles and have a lot of productivity. when you are moving four passengers who are able to deliver a lot of passenger miles per hour which is what makes the economics really, really exciting. you asked about the propellers. there integral to the acoustic profile which is near and dear to my dream. one of the areas we have invested a lot of time and energy as you pointed out. the piece that makes it able to be really quiet is the propulsion, the motors we have designed into the aircraft that allows us to spin those propellers really, really slowly. let's not just j the quantity of noise but the quality of noise which is a wash then a whopper of a whopper of a helicopter.

the whop whopper of the helicopter travels long distance to the atmosphere and it's annoying to the ear. that is crucial. we have designed it to be intuitive to get in and out of period. similar to get in and out of an suv. it is very adaptable -- they can get it in like this is really roomy, this feels like sitting in my car. that is the experience we want people to have it. somethingr. very familiar. what you chuckle at the wash and the whop whop. if you have not had a chance down in the lobby there is an audio experience. you can put these headphones on and compare the sound of different types of flights. if that does not convince you why these are important, i do not know it well. it was crude pretty incredible

to me. quickset some of the great things about bringing it out to new york. the community folks got to experience it. the gutsy look at the earphones and listen to it they looked at impersonated were immediately sold and they are like this is fantastic we cannot wait to have it here new york. with that experience are people in communities across the country and around the world. >> so, word of these things land? and how do we charge them? will they be hopping from rooftop to rooftop? quickset is exactly right. initially it is going to be the infrastructure at the airport. and in manhattan sick critical piece the mayor announced they were electrifying the helipad's in new york. we work at the faa to show with our precision landings we can use helipad's -- all of the helipad's out there currently.

will also be able to take advantage of all of the thousands of existing small airports around the country to provide vitally needed transportation to underserved t communities. you asked about electrifying them, we built something new charging standard which we called geek. this allows us to not just charge the batteries but condition the batteries to get a really remarkable fischbeck we have shown more than 10,000 10,0 representative 25-mile flight before we need to replace the battery pack which isn't crucial for the environmental impact of our service as well. >> you are a bit like tesla you have designed a special charging system that works with your aircraft. like tesla c do with their carsn the autout industry everyone end up standardizing on tesla system

but is that going to happen with you? >> art we made our system a widely available. we publish the standard so stano everyone can build these geek charging systems. and to take advantage of the incredible work our team has done developing this state-of-the-art aviation standard. >> will have a little bit of time left. what are the technical challenges that remain before thesee can become mainstream? i presume a lot of it involves a batteries but there might be othergh things as well but. >> again we have been flying since 2017. the technical challenge in terms of the design of the aircraft we have worked through. the really critical piece now is the scaling. that is why the partnership with toyota is so vitally important as we look to press the print

button and a ramp up the flywheel so we can produce more and more of these aircraft every year. if everybody that's flying from jfk wants to take one we need a lot of aircraft. there's a massive opportunity. >> is interesting to me as a longtime automotive writer how important the auto industry is to aviation with producing these things and mass scale. we only have about a minute left apparently always like to end with one fun thing. height is thee research rebel.u have invented other things. one of which i have in my house. what is gorilla pod? >> this takes me back about 30 years when i was at masters student at stanford there's a

team of us. we were assigned a class a project which was to design a better camera tripod. a lot of people felll in love withfe it. it was fantastic success on many different dimensions. it also provided the capitol to start on my childhoodil dream of building a better way to move around every day. i will always be grateful for the tripod progress i'm grateful for it to you can strap it on a fence or something and take good pictures, good videos, bends and crazy directions. anyway, thank you for that. thank you so much for traveling here. before our next session i just

wanted to encourage you if you are not already a subscriber i cowrite it with alex fitzpatrick and jennifer is called axios what is next? we cover a lot of these topics we have been discussing all day today. you can subscribe online at the judgment website for everyone and please remain seated. we have one final segment before our reception which is upstairs. i also encourage you go downstairs to try the headphones and other things we have on display there. without further ado i'm thrilled to welcome back to the stage mike allen. ♪ ♪ ♪ mentioned in the intro axios what is next is on our favorite

days of the year. you see these great colleagues coming in from around the country including joanne. and now a big fetish for our next guest came to fame as a mayor pete of south bend indiana present naval reserve officer deployed to afghanistan, harvard, oxford, now the 19th secretary transportation. secretary p buttigieg. welcome to axios what is next. ♪ >> they give so much for joining. you are official. secretary the department has five goals safety, jobs, equity climate, the fifth is innovation. but we love about axios what is next week to talk about building, innovating. bear in mind and your purview transportation innovation?

>> it is not sound sexy it does not sound the highest tech thing. there's an opportunity potentially to develop self-healing potholes. pavement that can begin. any former mayor knows the natural enemy. >> how can it be self-healing? >> i am the battle against potholes. we lose so much of the value of our infrastructure andru how it falls apart. i spent this morning on the washington bridge and rhode island. it's a huge pain point because part of it is out of service. it was built in the 60s. the network in a project completely reconstructed. they have to which they're hoping they can replace with the bridge to last 100 years. some believe we can construct bridges of 500 years if we can extend the life of our infrastructure with better materials. we are working that right now but we fund research that they don't naturally associate with

u.s. department of transportation onof everything from pavement durability to ai applications and they designed a complete streets but we're really excited with that could mean for the nextt generation f infrastructure. we are still living with the decision in the eisenhower era good and bad. let's make sure the biden era and preparing for the next generation to be more durable or smart equitable we ever could have imagined. >> people up people on the edgef their seat aboutpe pavement. cars that charge themselves as they drive? >> the exit of the iphone but not out of the question their prototyping this now. moving and testing this in detroit. ready for prime time but very much in theme works.

most of the intelligent so to speak. living in the vehicle for the cars are getting smarter. the planes are getting smarter. some can live in the infrastructure. a lot vehicle to everything communication. is becoming a reall challenge. part of what is that steak is enough bandwidth for vehicles to communicate with the infrastructure. not only is there a traffic light communicating with the driver that is to return to stop or go. conceivably they could be beacons communicatingic with the car. advise it, warning it, updating it in ways the driver does not even have to worry about. boeing has been on your desk a lot lately. how much of the coverage that we are seeing reflects authentic

systemic issues? how much of it as a bloomberg asked reported on every shark attack. there's a little bit of both going around. we think there are real concerns but we know there are real concerns with quality concern at boeing the faa administrator put them onth notice give them 90 ds to present a conference of plan on how they are addressing those issues. in an unprecedented step that we are not going to allow them to increase their production until they can demonstrate they can do it safely. at the same time incidents seem to cluster. as part of our job analytically to figure out if that's actually a cluster or for just look that way based on what got attention. the other important thing to keep track of here is this reflects the extremely high standard that we hold aviation safety too. the fact not a crash but something could conceivably lead to a crash is it self national

news. in a way it reflects extraordinary safety record we have in this country. in the aviation sector is working very hard to make sure we keep it that way. just to illustrate. i was thinking about this on the plane coming over but give you a sense of just have detailed oriented and careful we are on aviation safety. you may have noticed but you may not have noticed many newer airplanes the little hook the thumb size and shape on that front on the back of the seat in front of you. an economyec anyway. you can use it to hang your jacket on that little hook. it's quite a little thing. what you might not have noticed tonight noticed recently if you are in a exit row will be the case the little piece of plastic is not there on the seat in front of you it is theoretically possibleat during an evacuation having a coat hangingoa there could sloww down a little bit. ofthat is the level of detail tt goes into the regulation

practice of the aviation safety. what we need to do in addition to sustaining that to start applying that level of rigor to auto safety. a number of people equivalent to a fully loaded 7:30 seven diedd today and will again tomorrow. and will again the next day it will notwo get any coverage at all. 30,000 people died in this countryro every year at roadway crashes but part of our goal is to get this to become a place where this seems as quaint's and antiquated as dysentery on the oregon trail but i think you get there. ii really do. technology is part of the story of how we get there proposed regulation. >> last were on the mode of transportation for going to move around a little bit. mr. secretary you and i did an interview earlier. i asked you winter or i'll question you said you go for the window seat because you are a nap. would you sit against a window seat in a boeing playing?

[laughter]in >> yes i just did the other day. i think i did yesterday. look, every time i get on a plane i know i'm participating in the safest mode of transportation in america. i know the people worked very hard to keep it that way but that's part of over pressing boeing so hard right now. >> going to the president's favorite mode of transportation at the white house hans nichols says we all think of taking a train from d.c. to new york. what is the route to that will be as common at the end of president biden second term? when we are funding is a public-private partnership if they meets their aggressive they currently have a real in florida. the same firm is now launching a project going from nevada to southern california. if they hit all of their marks their goal is to be in revenue service by the time of the

olympics. which means during the last year president biden second term there would be revenue service, high-speed true high-speed rail but most of it running right on that meeting at 515 is having at the right away so quickly. a stretch of road that's described as a parking lot on weekends. incredibly congested. incredibly overworked. acthat's when the first places americans experience actual high-speed rail. once we get there's no going back up a quick aside and biden's second term. >> this could happen in 2028. the last year president biden second term. >> it goes from l.a. to? works loss vegas and then it ties into regionales connection. i was to the home hundred would be to get something like that all the way to l.a. there's also work going to link l.a. to san francisco but not be revenue service in 2020 big bucks isn't there one in texas that's promising? what's the concept is to goco fm

dallas to houston. i think it's a great example of the population density that would support rail but love people say we are not europe or the right reason we cannot change as good as europe we are not laid out like your. you can find lots of places in the u.s. texas is not like your print but one thing that written comment major metropolitan centers that are rather a long drive very short flight away from each other. there's a perfect candidates for high-speed rail. there is a proposal investing in it and their interesting ideas about what could connect them for they want to use a different technology. this a lot of different ideas many have a significant private role. but she had 8d and ev in your purview. up little bit of an unusual take on driverless cars to see them as a piece of the safety puzzle? works i mentioned earlier it is not get the attention it deserves. to put it another way it's on public gun violence in terms of

how many lives are lost. if we were paying as much attention and working on an even fighting over is much as we do with the fight against gun violence. a big part of the solution can be technology. the truth is we, as human drivers have a murderer's track record when it comes to fatalities and injuries behind the wheel. the potential of partial or full automation technologies is enormous. we've got from here to there safely. not just as good as human beings dramatically better. in order to earn a public acceptance associated with this technologies. right now i describe it is almost a valley of death between where we started and where we need to get too. right now you won't notice the most sophisticated cars half of the technology is about protecting you from the other half of thehe technology.

the crews control disengage of ifit doesn't your hands are on e wheel. all very goodve technologies wht that means we need technology to keep you from depending on the technology. three steps forward, two steps back situation in terms of the safety benefits that this continues to develop the way it needs to and we are working hard is it regulated to try to guide that input left and right boundaries aroundes that an industry is working hard to develop it. theof safety payoff in terms of lives that we could say is enormous. there's another way to think about it. we have finally started tentatively to reduce the rise and roadway deaths we have experience of the secular separate lester was up and down by about 1% of 40400 people. right there at 400 people did not die. that is what a 1% improvement represents. i believe we can get to zero. that sounds pie-in-the-sky.

three simple even the vision of zero granted washington d.c.'s never had a year zero traffic fatalities. but jersey city has, hoboken has, and illinois has the more we can at each passenger to that roster of cities or neighborhoods within cities who have achieved a zero the closer we get to a goal that i think should match our reality and expectations in a typical year for passenger aviation which is zero. >> cabinet secretaries do not always good to deliver good news but when the signature achievements the infrastructure here's a crazy stat amazing stat 46000 projects have been awarded funding. he said yes that is true.

most of the projects half of the funding. and so you get to deliver a lot of good news. as the best part of the job. especially there so many places trying to do this for years and years they have some big project that has ever been possible because they've not had the funding. it's the cathedralsra of our infrastructure. we invest in the hudson river tunnel. the finest engineering state-of-the-art the teddy rooseveltel administration. he needs to be redone. that's going to buy the biggest public works projects in the united states. it is exciting to see that finally happen were able to commit more than $10 billion to see it through. some of the most moving projects i've been able to see our six-figure projects. i was in a small south dakota community, very small but just big enough to have an airport. 2500 people in chamberlain, south dakota they have an airport that matters because

they use it for air ambulance at lifelikeir missions to get to a trauma center which is otherwise hours away for a hospital patient. it's also important for crop dusting. their general aviation terminal basically manufactured home it's a mobile home forur the dent a nice job with it you can tell it is a double wide. with seven or $800,000 were funding them. and the difference that will make it to patients, two pilots andod everybody in between is huge. tears were coming to the ice with a local official summit we went towh celebrate this a projt for it's a project community most people in washington have never heardrd of. it's one of the cathedrals of our infrastructure people have been wondering how to get donet for decades. all of that is happening through the infrastructure package. we still do not get to say yes to most of the applications that come in because the need ise so great. we are able to say yes more than any of my predecessors ever got to it which i think not only

drive the best job in the federal government but this is the best time to ever have that job. >> very early to recognize the power of online communication to reach people in your other campaigns. fs links stat i got from your team you have been in office two years you would than 1800 interviews, many from the famous remote student we recognize the blueue background. you ares. coming up on 2000 interviews. what is the secret to communicating on sunday shows and today gma? i don't have big secrets. one thing i found most of his 1800 are probably a local television. we do meet the press in any of the others. the biggest thing i would say i have learned is even though the audience can be very different, the interviews don't have to be that different. i think that's because they cut my teeth as the mayor of a small city every week, i would go to a

local tv station. i would make my rounds and sit down with the anchor and they've asked me whatever tough issues there were and i did my best to answer. even though the viewing audience if i do that on cbs might be 1000 times more, the experience is not that different. you have something to say and so i >> i try to make sure whether i'm talking about a specific grant to local tv in wisconsin or whether i'm doing a sunday show on behalf of the administration, i have the kind of same -- i'm saying the same things, you never say something here that you'd be embarrass today have repeated there. and i'm speaking to the same issues which are mostly not about the washington drama of the bills that got passed or didn't and who gets credit for them p but just actually is getting, somebody's everyday life, it's better or worse and whether we are talking about

cosmic issues around democracy, whether we are talking about things like the right to choose or marriage equality or whether we are talking about fixing an airport in south dakota, all of it matters because somebody's life gets better if we get it right. >> president biden likes to see you on tv. >> he definitely teases me on how much i'm on tv. i love getting out there talking about the good news. look, we deal with bad news too. any time that -- >> last christmas. >> yeah, although we followed the bad news with some, i think, good news with passenger rights within a year we hit southwest with the toughest enforcement action in dot history and with it are engaging them and requiring them as part of the settlement to issue the most generous reimbursements going forward. you ever get stuck in southwest and they are responsible in addition to baseline right that is we protect you get a voucher as well which i'm hoping other

airlines will seek to emulate and could move the market. anyway, our jobob is to try to respond to that news and have that develop into good news and to tell the story about the good news. here is the problem, when something is uncontroversial and ambiguously good, doesn't get that much attention. we have to work that much harder to get on tv, get on the ground. take a trip a week or any of the other things that are going on across the country. >> penultimate question. you're a michigan resident. my colleague who is a michigander, since he moved to

michigan is secretary buttigieg planning to run to governor. >> we went to michigan because it was for our family. that's what we've achieved by moving to michigan. this job takes 110% of intellect and attention and i don't know if i'm run for office again or not but i do really care about the future of -- of the state that i've -- i've married into it and adopted and i think governor whitmer is doing a fantastic job you are now a tria. >> yeah. i did one triathlon but i don't know if that makes you a triathlete. >> it sure does. >> i will take it.

>> it was really hard. i didn't love it but i had to really lean on my husband to agree to watch the kids what i went on these for our bike rise. it's not just michigan but washington has a fantastic environment to run or take long bike rides. great training and i enjoyed it but until i have a less manic job, i don't think i can train for something like that again. >> is we say goodbye, i know a secret about you. you have 2.5-year-old twins and your vehicle is a pacifica. >> never thought i would be a fan. nobody things they will be a van person. it's like changing. >> very grateful for bank of america hosting us today and we

thank our sponsors and we are grateful to the incredible events team, they pull off miracle after miracle. we love to see you upstairs. we have goodies and we love to can -- to continue to connect. thank you for a fantastic conversation. thank you. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption cont >> book tv every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors, discussing their latt nonfiction books. at 8:00 p.m. eastern craig shirley discusses his book the searchor reagan which looks at ronald reagan's conservatism and how he dealt with challenges during presidency and in his personal life and at 10:00 p.m. eastern o afterwords newsweek with her book second class where she spoke with working-class americans about their lives and

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