of president sean mcgarvey and at that time, secretary booker, who has gone on to another role and current secretary brandon bishop. during this project, brandon and i worked together in a lot of different times and hours and spent so much time over there they bought braves jerseys and paid georgia taxes. thank you. we had a global pandemic while we were trying to build it, but it was the largest job producing construction project in georgia with over 9,000 workers. because of our strong partnership and shared commitments to safety, our people, we stood up a medical clinic together. this, along with other efforts, kept our employees and your members willing and able to come to work every day. as a result, the plant construction site-- >> we'll leave this program here to take you live to a discussion on the upcoming

n.a.t.o. summit held in washington d.c. featuring the ambassador to the alliance julianne smith. live coverage here on c-span2. >> 75 years old this april and much to celebrate, the alliance is larger and more united than before, addition of finland and sweden added military to the roster and new defense plan and after decades of underfunding, n.a.t.o. supported ukraine in recognition of the mounting russian threat. these causes for celebration, however, are juxtaposed with a deteriorating security environment including russia's illegal war of aggression against ukraine and a collection of unfinished business from last year' summit. so securing the future of the most successful alliance will require this year's summit to be one of implementation. come july, n.a.t.o. will be expected to take action for the

underequipped industrial base and frank and demonstration of plans for new challenges including respond the area responsibility. how will this feature in the washington summit agenda? what will allies need to deliver to assure the alliance is able to defend every inch of n.a.t.o. territory. today's discussion will be preview ahead of what is expected to be a pivotal summit offering the transatlantic alliance and decision makers, tans tangible courses of action. the summit is in less than 100 days, stay tuned for even more of us over the coming weeks-- more from us. and sustainable nonpartisan strategies to address the most important security challenges

facing the united states and its allies. the center honors the general's service and body of ethos of nonpartisan commitment of cause and allies and partners, and dedication to the mentorship of the next generation of leaders. joining us today to share their perspectives includes minister of national defense for the republics and lithuania. and the julianne smith, an ambassador to the united states, and an ambassador of the ukraine to the united states. and ambassador the principal deputy assistant secretary of state for euro asian affairs. and deputy chief of mission of charges of affair at the embassy republic of germany to the united states and mr. james rosco deputy head of mission at

the british embassy in washington. the atlantic council would like to thank the lithuanian department of defense, our partners in the conference, we're shaping the future together with allies and partners. nowhere is our mission more important than conversations like this one. throughout today's discussions there will be time to ask questions in person or via ac.org. we encourage you to join the conversation, #stronger with allies. i'd like to turn to the minister for remarks. the minister appointed to the position in march of 2024 and previously served on the national security and defense security of the lithuanian department. it's our distinct pleasure to host him on his first visit to the united states. the floor is yours. welcome.

[applause] >> thank you very much. lithuanian minister of defense is looking forward to the council and looking forward to a deeper one. so, about upcoming summits, about russia and about the eastern flanks. first of all, i would say a few words about russia's capabilities as potential now to challenge n.a.t.o.'s eastern flank. i think last year we had some movement in the proceedings. and underestimating russia's ability to adapt. what we need to say, two things, russia with their

economy and their war both, and many examples when they are moving forward. for example, before the war in ukraine, they produced 3, 400,000, now producing 2.2 million. it is despite sanctions and despite our attempts. so, we are on the war mode. sometimes we are hearing the questions, okay. but it cannot last long in that such kind of mode, but i think sometimes we apply western criteria, western thinking criteria to russia and it's not adequate because we don't hear about the social welfare. we don't care about any social things of society because

society is manipulated, society is socially engineered. and of course, because of opportunity and regime. so when you want to understand rush is a you should not apply western thinking. and it's not necessarily the strategy thinking of russia. second thing which we also saw, so-called mobilization reserve and create a so call-- -- paying for people in russia and attract them to war. and 25 million, this is the number when we ask how many mobilizations russia can have, 25 million, compared to us and compared to ukraine, which is a big number. this is what we need to understand, we are preparing. the problem is, that when we try to tackle this challenge,

we always we're counting how many years we need, three, five, seven, you know, many interpretations, many countings. i think we should change that approach. we should build our defense in that mode and manner in eastern flank in the whole of n.a.t.o. to control the process. so do not recount their years, but to control the process and to deter them. that's why n.a.t.o. decisions are so important. and i want to say what their moves and actions and directions, after madrid world summit, i think it's in a positive one. it's a positive one. first of all, of course, new defense plans. i think it's a breakthrough. so we transform from deterrence by punishment concept to

deterrence by denial. especially after european when you say there is nothing to take back. we need to fight on the line and we need to be ready to fight on the line and deter on the line. that's why we need to have a credible defense in and based on principles forward defense. and the plans, together with enforcement is a good direction to act. we need to tackle still the problems, as you know, capability gaps, air defense, many capabilities, long strike capabilities, but little by little we are moving forward. it's secure, and important for us eastern flank will be much more flexible responding to

risk. when the capability is showed whatever crisis coming, we need to react for veterans. not fighting forward as russia, but to deter them. that's why we need flexible decisions, flexible response and more authority, more power for security is very, very important and i will say, we also moving little by little toward this direction. we need exercises based on article five. with the transatlantic reenforcement, i think it's also would be very important. so acceptability of the defense plans. this is number one what we need, what we need to do. second thing, second point, is of course, defense investment and defense production. i will not say anything, you know it very well. we're trying and also europe is trying.

we increased our production about 50%. we of course, europe is not on the war stage economy, but we're trying to find the solutions. also lithuania, also in europe. we agreed with 2% is only for different spending and we should try to transform the money into the capabilities. how to do it in a faster way, it's still a big, big challenge because even now, you have contract somewhere for ammunition, for the weapons, even if you have the money now, it comes in four years. it's not like in russia, as we know. ...

>> so of course the defense industrial base, we should improve here as much as possible. talking about defense architecture, i should mention i think very important decision made by germany and lithuania. we have germany roadmap implement a step-by-step your i think it's a role model eastern flank countries for what kind of forward defense architecture we should build in eastern flank. but, of course, it was only the united states of america, in europe in eastern flank. so that's why when we are doing with the germany, the same, your presence -- troops and baltics

in lithuania is vital for us. it's a vital factor of defense. you know, , i can see even one joke. i have -- with many -- not the baltics, senior expert analyst and some generals from western countries. and then my colleague from nordic countries, like questions who's stronger? tiger or a leopard or something like this. he tells me, which army in europe is the strongest? the general said america. no, no. in europe. we know america is the strongest. no, he said, america. so even in europe, american forces is the strongest forces. so that's why america is so vital for security. but, of course, as you see you

are also investing in our defense, taking responsibility, taking actions also important. and i think germany is doing great job in eastern flank. third point, air defense. we need to great antiquated system. we know very well in our defense capabilities has a good deficit in nato. so producing the air defense, long-range, medium-range, short range, it's vital. that's why know we and lithuania also a little bit shifting our priorities i would say. we're trying to make have here, creating the tank battalions step-by-step it also investing more into a middle range air defense system which could help to defend not only are armories

but our citizens in the cities as we see in ukraine how it is vital. fourth thing, thinking about defense architecture, its ukrainian aspirations. we know very well. [speaking ukrainian] fighting not only for themselves, their fighting for europe. and just ask for ammunition. they're not asking for troops, so give them tools to fight and to control and to contain the empire. it's so simple. it's like if you want, do not send the troops summative and the native country, most cheapest way to give weapons and ammunition to ukraine. simple as that. it's that simple and political situation embassy. talking about nato and ukraine relations, i know it's difficult.

at the same time we should not give to russia informal power on nato. no foreign country should have such kind of right. should also be based on that assumption. fifth point, it's nato in the pacific. i think the processes and the situations are interconnected. and i think we should also do more in close cooperation between two regions, especially thinking how to contain and control the authoritarian regimes reach which are interconnected between themselves as an over well. so those of the main five points, and for the last thing but also i would say important

one, i want to talk about puzzle which called escalation de-escalation thinking. i know that sometimes very much restrict some moves especially in the nato, thinking that support to ukraine. you know, doing nothing is -- we should put in mind because it is russia. if you will just, you know, think that you will not do anything, they will consider it as you are peaceful now. we will take and break you. respect only if you're strong. very simple thing. its strength. you know it very well, classical things. so that's why we need to escape from this dilemma, which russia is trying to play with us. that's what we need active defense. sometimes even creating for

russia also not only their dilemma but our dilemmas for them. thank you. [applause] [inaudible] >> thoughtful comment, and i believe i know you have a busy schedule i think with time for least a few questions. so i wanted to start with the threat of harm it because i think some in the united states might say well, russia turned out to be weaker than we thought. it has its hands full and ukraine. putin is not foolish enough to attack a nato ally anytime soon. but you are right there on the front lines. so can you share with us what are the realities of the secure situation on nato speaker and and the russian threat? >> several factors. that, if you look at kaliningrad now, even less than what was before the war. does it deliver to ukraine. but at the same time we know

what these forces, could be reinforced. you know, a new reform, army form in western district in 22 december to transform the brigade to division level. and if you look at the capability to do it in personal level, we can do it very well. war and also is capable maybe not very much sophisticated but to contribute the technical equipment for that kind of, building that kind of new -- that's what we can get very fast. as totalitarian country can do very fast. that's what we should adopt. adaptation of course is defense which i talked a little bit.

another important factor is belarus. we don't see belarus as independent country. it's already integrated in domains of russia, especially military terms. and also i remember one conversation with some ukrainians before the war. in 2014, one keep your creams at the time was -- was also after maidan to attack. you were saying president, could you give me guarantee? but unit, russia will not use territory. officially yes, of course where independent state. after some drinks, he asked the same question and he told him i will inform you in 48 hours. it was in 2014, i don't know how many hours now.

that's why we do not, we do not see them as independent country. and it's also an important factor. but, of course, if you look at another special problem could be -- if you talk about conventional threats come from divisional war comes of course intelligence, you know, we have capability for early warning system. but for no notice or short notice, something hybrid, below article number five we should always be prepared for that kind of thing. as you know we already survived one of attacks, so-called allies integration. luke schenker pushed people in our borders many to adapt to the -- lukashenko -- also could be barriers. we need to be ready for that. >> that makes sense and you talked about the need then to

have the proper defense and deterrence architecture as to the vilnius summit lester the new regional plans were agreed to, kind of the first series new defense plans are early since the end of the cold war. there been some public reporting that we don't yet have the capabilities that we need for these plans do we have what we need to defend nato's eastern flank? if not, what are the biggest gaps in your? >> i think we are but recaps you said. air defense, heavy division so tanks, artillery systems, deep strike capabilities. i think we have a list of so-called gaps, but the gaps you can control. if we're moving forward, for defense, there is new energy. i think we can find the solutions. but your most important thing, america and europe. america security of your --

without america security of your is impossible. that's what we're doing our stuff, we know what we should invest in our defense, and we're doing, our aim is 3%. is 3%. we sit in the baltics 3%, not tonight. in the baltics we see 3% and we will achieve i think this year. so that's why we're doing a lot of -- but at the same time we send a message to united states what, you know, when you did also. that's president of the united states in europe is biggest and most credible factor. >> i've had the opportunity to visit with lithuania and meet with the german and american commits on the ground there and i think that powerful to have that visible manifestation of american power there on the ground. a big summit coming up, 75th anniversary of the nato. people are debating what should the priorities be. from between his point of view

what are the major priorities for the summit? what would you like to see from the main deliverables come out of some? >> the defense plan, filling the gaps, air defense. we have called air defense rotation model because different in nato we need to mobilize more sources into that. and, of course, ukraine and, of course, ukraine. >> can you say more? of the course ukraine. what would you like to see? >> invitation, of course here. >> are great. well, i have many more questions but look at the clock i think we've come to the end of our time. any brief thoughts you would like to leave with the audience? >> just to thank you, and thank united states for in historical terms for our nation. america and helping in our freedom fighting in every stages of her history was so crucial.

and that's why if you ask lithuanians which country always was most closest in historical terms supported our independence, stated is the united states. that's why that the women's circuit transatlantic and we will be safe together. thank you. >> wonderful. thanks also to lithuania. as you know burden sharing is becoming a political issue in the united united statesh great to see allies like lithuania that are more than pulling their weight. but thank you very much, minister kasciunas come for taking the time with us this money. we really appreciate your insights and look for to continue with these critical discussions in the months leading up to the washington summit. >> thank you. >> now i think it's time to transition to a nice segment and double turn the microphone to philip dickenson whose lady our transatlantic transatlantic security initiative. philip.

-- who's a leading. [applause] >> thank you very much, and thank you, minister kasciunas for sharing lithuania perspective. lithuania is a vital ally and we really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and perspectives also make the transition from vilnius to washington. as doctor? at minus philip dickenson. and acting director of the transit link security initiative here in the scowcroft center for strategy and security. continuing with the program, we will shift our focus to brussels. we will just take a brief pause whilst we wait for the ambassador, audible julianne smith, u.s. ambassador to nato in brussels for conversation

moderated by andrew desiderio, senior congressional reporter with punchbowl news. so we will be back in just one moment. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> welcome back everybody. we're pleased to turn to the

next session which is the speakers spotlight discussion with the honorable julianne smith, use ambassador to nato. moderated by andrew desiderio, senior congressional reporter with punchbowl news. andrew, over two. >> thank you very much and thank you much to all of you for joining us here in person as well as on the live stream for today's event, a back to business birthday priority for the 2024 nato summit here in washington. my name is andrew desiderio, senior congressional reporter for punchbowl news when we cover the power, people and politics that drive the decision making in our nation's capital, specifically on capitol hill. i'm delighted to be joined this morning, well it is afternoon for her, by the honorable julianne smith, united states permit representative to nato for conversation here about u.s. priorities heading into the summit here in washington. ambassador, thank you very much for taking the time to join us today. we would appreciate it. i wanted to note at the outset you were confirmed by the united

states senate in november of 2021 by a voice vote. i know you had to wait a a lie bit to get that final confirmation done, but i just wanted to emphasize the fact that the ambassador was confirmed a voice vote in the united states senate. obviously we know that in today's senate voice votes for diplomatic nominees are very few and far between. some wanted to mention that at the outset. prior to her senate confirmation ambassador smith was a senior advisor to secretary blinken at the state department. she was also deputy national security adviser to then vice president joe biden. with that i want to dive right in, ambassador i don't think there's any doubt that nato is stronger today than it's ever been. it's really bigger than it's ever been when we talk about the accession of two new member nations and, of course, the alliance celibate the 75th anniversary this year. so celebrate we can but, of course, there are some serious challenges as well that are top

of mind for you and work of the to do there in brussels. for one, ukraine as a have a pivotal point right now in its war with russia here there's uncertainty about ukraine's path to nato membership and, of course, geopolitical uncertainty with elections happening on both sides of the atlantic this year that could have real impacts on the alliance as a whole. so with that backdrop i would like to get you to talk about how you define success this year's nato summit weather will presumably continue to be questions about the longevity if you will of the western coalition supporting ukraine. >> sure. thanks for the invitation. it's great to join you this morning on the other side of the pond virtually. wish i could be there in person but alas, this virtual connection will have to do. in terms of the upcoming summit in july i think i would define success in kind of three main baskets. first and foremost as you said at the top this is in essence a

celebration at its very hard. we are marking 75 years of working together with our allies, with the nato alliance over seven decades of every u.s. president irrespective of their political affiliation supporting and leading this alliance. and we expect that to continue. so it will be a celebration thinking about the alliance's agility, it's adaptability, its resilience in the face of all sorts of new challenges. so that's step number one, making sure we have taken and that to mark the moment, mark 35 years of working closely with our allies and all the alliance has been able to achieve over seven plus decades. basket number two in terms of success is marking a moment in terms of burden sharing. ten years ago allies agreed to spend 2% of their gdp on defense. when we made that pledge three

allies are spending 2% of gdp on defense. today, at last count we are at least at 20, maybe we'll get what are two more before the summit occurs, but we're going to be to the point where we can celebrate two-thirds of the allies beating the 2% pledge. now, the real celebration will come when we get to 32. any use that we will be getting more and more allies and we're marching towards that they went every member of the alliance will hit the 2%. but burden sharing will be a big part of what we talk about at the summit. it will be a key feature of the public engagement and also will be talk about burden sharing we just don't mean 2%. we are also talk about what we are all doing together to support our friends in ukraine. and that brings me to the last category in terms of really marking success, having the opportunity to welcome president zelensky to washington to stand with 32 other leaders, to lock

arms within and make sure that moscow understands a single message. and that is, nato allies are not going anywhere. we are not distracted. we are not looking away. we are not going inpatient. we will stand with ukraine for his long as it takes. and i think the message of solidarity, of resolve, of unity around what's happening in ukraine will be a key feature of this summit. and, of course, we are working right now on an actual deliverable for ukraine which we might want to get into here in our discussion. but broadly i would say celebrating nato's 75 years, ensuring that we help the world understand how important burden sharing is and how far we have come inside the alliance on that front, and making sure that russia understands that we are

already to continue supporting our friends in ukraine so that they can prevail. all of that will be part of a successful summit. >> you mentioned a deliverable for ukraine. i would like you to get into that if you can come to the extent that you can. also note that atlantic council senior fellow ian brzezinski recently wrote that this year summit should quote grant ukraine a clear path to nato membership. do you agree with that? and if so, what needs to happen specifically at this year's summit in order to make that happen? >> well, first at the top when we say new allies have been crystal clear we've been clear since 2008 that ukraine will become a member of the alliance. we reaffirm that last year at the vilnius summit when we said that ukraine's future place is in nato. but we were not prepared last summer to extend a proper invitation to ukraine for full-fledged membership. and i'm not expecting the alliance to do that this summer.

what i am expecting allies to is to construct a bridge to membership by offering ukraine a deliverable that will enable them to become even closer to this alliance. last summer we create something called the nato ukraine council which just met a couple of weeks ago with president zelensky,, which enables ukraine to come to the nato table, sit at the table as an equal, and discuss whatever is on their mind. in this moment we were able to talk to president zelensky about his very real defense requirements, what they need right now in real time for success on the battlefield. but this nato ukraine council something we already created last summer, and you're going to see more news on what the allies are prepared to unveil this summer at the summit. i can't go into a lot of detail because allies are in the process of debating that right now, but what i will say is we

are looking at a way to institutionalize here at nato summit the bilateral support that has been provided to ukraine over the last two years. >> as you know, ambassador, last week finally sent a ukraine aid package to president biden's desperate it took several months, many iterations. it doesn't take a political scientist to conclude that support for ukraine a lease in congress has gone down. much of it of course is driven by the far right as it is in other countries as well. you mentioned transit and unity in highlighting at this year's summit, what else can be done here in washington in july to counteract of those forces? >> we are not waiting for july. i will say we collectively, the allies of themselves and the united united states, we are all working together to get a message out. we're getting the message out about the importance of this alliance, why was important that we created it 75 years ago. but also to help americans and

publics money of the site is give an understanding nato is a very different organization. nato was created in a different era and it was prepared for different threats. it was much smaller. there were only 12 founding members. we are almost triple that now with 32 member states. and we don't just limit ourselves to our work here in terms of conventional military threat. this alliance and in and day out is looking at a variety of threats that cross a full definition of security challenges and threats here they represent our work on climate security, our work on cyber attacks. emerging and disruptive technologies, resilience, women peace and security. i could go on and on. we're working hard on defense production. so what was once an alliance that focus primarily on conventional military threats now is an alliance that copes

with and addresses the full spectrum of security challenges as defined by the 30 to allies. so we've been working through public messaging campaigns to get the word out to answer tough questions from students, from veterans groups come from the private sector, from small-town mayors and governors. i've been out myself traveling across the united states, but so have many of our allies. they made special trips to places like iowa and texas and alabama and beyond. we have to broaden the conversation we are having in the united states about why we created nato and why it still important 75 years later. so this is an ongoing conversation that we are having with a variety of audiences. anything you will see that engagement character right up to the summit and, in fact, be on. >> as you know ambassador, the senate nato observer group is very active on all of the things

you just mentioned. in a recent letter to president biden the cochairs of the group jeanne shaheen and thom tillis wrote that this your summit should future quote a recognition of a a stroke or neuter partnership with allies in the indo-pacific. one of the things that stood out to me having to attended thet two nato summit in madrid as the those in vilnius last year was the presence of these foreign leaders from indo-pacific nations. they are really engaged on the big picture security challenges, particularly ukraine, even the china is a pacing threat in their own backyard. for example, the japanese prime minister has said the best way to do for president xi from launching an invasion of taiwan is to defeat putin in ukraine. you hear a lot of people on capitol hill including mitch mcconnell the senate republican leader say things like deterrence is not

divisible. in other words, you can't allow putin to just run roughshod over ukraine also credibly say you want to deter china from going into taiwan. can you talk a little bit about the involvement of indo-pacific nations in nato as a whole, what you expect at the july summit in that respect? and can you talk about why it's important to have been at the table? >> well, thanks for that, absolutely. so nato has four indo-pacific partners and this country are japan, the republic of korea, australia and new zealand. these are four countries that had spent recent years moving closer to the nato alliance, not because any of them are talking about a global alliance or joining it as a proper member, but because as partners they value the opportunity to exchange best practices and insights on a variety of challenges that know no

geographic limits. we are talking to our friends in the indo-pacific about things like maintaining our technological edge, about protecting ourselves and deterring cyber attacks. we are talk with him about disinformation campaigns stemming both from the prc and from russia and what those two countries are learning from one another. so those partners find real value in exchange with nato allies, and similarly i can assure you that the allies here find real value and exchanging ideas and best practices with those four countries. on top of it though most of her indo-pacific partners have provided valuable assistance to a friend in ukraine, whether its economic existence, community assistance or security assistance. and they're doing that because they understand that ukrainians are not just fighting to preserve their own territorial integrity, but they are, in

fact, protecting and trying to preserve the key tenets of the u.n. charter. and that gets right back to the question of sovereignty. but i will also note that the alliance is increasingly talking about what the prc is doing in and around the euro atlantic area. this is creeping me at topic of conversation inside the nato allies. we're doing a lot of work into space. and as we look at that challenge we can no doubt learn from our friends in the indo-pacific and figure out how they coped with similar challenges in their own region. so if i had to guess, i would suspect that once again we will see the four indo-pacific partners join us at the washington summit. nothing has been finalized yet but i think after having had been present, both at the madrid summit in 2022 and the vilnius summit in 2023, i think we would welcome the chance to have those

four leaders join us again at the washington summit. so stay tuned on that front. but this is a set of relationships i think all nato allies not just the united states but all nato allies find tremendous value in. >> something that's important you mentioned at the outset is this idea of burden sharing. as you know the 2014 whales summit was a critical moment for the alliance because it effectively set 2% benchmark in terms of defensemen as a percentage of gdp. we are not in your summit summit but as you mentioned much of the alliance is still lagging behind that benchmark. to what extent you with this year, this year's summit should address that shortfall? or maybe double down on it and you know make sure that, the number of nations that meet that benchmark is as high as possible? >> well, i would just note for your audience that when you use the word most, most allies that meet the 2% and and that includes countries like germany, norway. there's a lot of breaking news

out there. so at least 20 if not more a going to hit the 2% mark. so the majority of folks are there. now, that leads a handful of allies that are not yet there but i will say those allies have plans in place to get the 2% in two or three years. we will push, and we have pushed in recent years, but we will push as hard as we can to ensure that all the allies get there. but i need to say something else, and that is, laster at the vilnius summit we make clear that 2% is a floor, not a ceiling. and we said that because we also rolled out regional plans for the first time in decades. now we had detailed military plans and what it takes to defend every inch of nato territory. and in order to realize of those plans i think were slowly reaching the conclusion that 2% will not be enough. and that is why some of the

countries that are already in the 2% camp have moved on to 2.5 to 3%. in the case of poland inching towards 4%. allies are not waiting for everybody else to catch up. we have a number of allies including some of our nordic friends. we had the united kingdom just make an announcement about their desire to get to 2.5%. romania 2.5. the number of allies are moving out on stretching beyond the 2% to ensure that we can replenish our stock from the valve assistance that we provided to ukraine over the last two years, and keep giving ukraine additional forms of security assistance. so this is generally a good news story. we'll be sure to keep our foot on the gas that needed to ensure that every nato member meet its commitment to get to 2%, but we are on our way.

>> and with that we're out of time unfortunate but ambassador smith, thank you very much for joining us here today and thank you to the atlantic council for hosting us this morning. we look forward to seeing you here in washington in july. >> thank you. thank you very much. thanks to the atlantic council. [applause] >> thanks for much, ambassador and andrew for the very insightful conversation. we're going to take a brief coffee break down for about ten minutes, so come back at 10:45 when we will resume our programming with atlantic council president and ceo fred kempe who will be moderating a discussion on the importance of supporting ukraine ahead of the washington summit. thank you very much everybody, and we will be back shortly. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> a brief break here. when the program resumes speakers are expected to highlight native support for ukraine and that the ongoing russian invasion. while we wait we'll take a look at some of this monks "washington journal" program. >> monday morning, start calling in now. this is headline a front page of

today's "usa today," protesters faced police crackdowns across the united states. at least 900 have been arrested at pro-palestinian devastation on college campuses in the past ten days. it is is a largest police response to campus activism in years. this weekend on the sunday shows on cbs in face the nation it was sinema in order mitch mcconnell was asked about these protests and what kind of response the federal government might have along with the campus administrators and state governments. here's what he had to say. >> here's the way i look at it. the first amendment is important but it doesn't give you the ability to claim there's a fire going on in a theater because it threatens everyone else. what needs to happen at least at the beginning, these university presidents did get control of the situation, allow free speech and push back against anti-semitism. i thought that was largely gone

in this country, but we've seen a number of young people who are actually anti-semitic. why don't they all sit down and have a civil conversation rather than trying to dominate the talk? i think the first line of defense is these university presidents. >> so you wouldn't go to the national guard? >> let's see if these university president can get control of the situation. they ought to be able to do that, civil discussion is what college education is supposed to be about. i would be interested in hearing the antiseptic people explain the justification for that kind of talk. >> president biden said he condemned the anti-semitic protests and condemns those who don't understand what's going on in palestine with the palestinians. do you agree with this statement? >> it's not a question of whether i agree. i can speak for myself.

and look, what i think is what i just said about how these college campuses ought to be controlled by the administration's. >> mitch mcconnell of face the nation. that was yesterday. a bit of a different tone than that taken by speaker mike johnson wednesday of last week when mike johnson and other republican leaders in the house went to club university in new york and were asked about those protesters who some of them were yelling at thepeak and his fellow republicans even as they were talking. >> my attention is to call president biden after we leave here and share with them what we've seen with her own two eyes and event that he take action. that is executive authority would be appropriate. if this attack and it quickly and if these threats and intimidation are not stop, there is an appropriate time for the national guard. we have the rank order to these campuses. we cannot allow this to happen around the country. we are better than this. we are better than this and i'll ask the president did it an

episode that very same thing. >> what is house going to do? [shouting] >> house has been investigating a number of these campuses. there is a nexus to federal funding. if these campuses cannot get control of this problem they do not deserve taxpayer dollars. that's a very serious issue. you have seen our education and workforce committee having oversight hearing. we have brought the president of these universities to congress to test under oath and juicy and accountability become the prettily much more of that. will continue to work on legislation to justice at the federal level. this congress and a generally believe that bipartisan agreement on this, we will stand for what is good and what is right. it doesn't matter who shalt interfaces. we going to do what is right by america. we respect free speech. respect diversity of ideas but there is a way to get in a lawful manner, thus that what this is.

>> speaker mike johnson on wednesday of last week. by the way he spoke about president biden. it was just a president biden spoke with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the readout from the white house, out last night. president biden spoke during the day with benjamin netanyahu, the president reaffirmed his ironclad commitment to israel's security following the successful defense against iran's and president of missile and drone attack from early this month. they have reviewed ongoing talks to secure the release of hostages together within the ceasefire in gaza. and the readout goes on from there. that's provided by the white house yesterday. speaking of the biden administration, secretary of state and a blinking who set to travel to -- antony blinken on a possible ceasefire in gaza as punchbowl news reports link in the in saudi arabia for world economic forum with gaza talks on the side. he didn't let on to israel and

jordan. that's what's take place in the administration this week. we're asking you about the federal or state governments response to these campus protests that happened over the past ten days or so come some 900 900 a restaurant country. more from over the weekend and want to get your thoughts this morning. phone lines republicans 202-748-8001. democrats 202-748-8000. independence 202-748-8002. and that we do have that line for college students and administrators, faculty, 202-748-8003. will go to that line as often as folks call in on that line. this though is a joanne, republican out of new york, cherry valley new york. you are up first. >> caller: yes, good morning. >> good morning. >> caller: yeah, i don't know why everybody is surprised that campuses had been taken over by

these activists and protesters. over the years, the past few years on tv all you hear about is colleges that are inviting conservative speakers, we're talking about free speech, on coming to campuses and being shut out and not allowed to speak at these campuses. this is just a continuation of what the college administrators have been allowing to happen. and unless they take that into consideration and stop not letting people enjoy their free speech and have discussions between the groups, this is going to continue. so i hope that the administrators will try to get the students to allow free speech actually happen on their campus. go ahead.

they shouldn't have canceled the classes you are think? >> i think they should've canceled the classes or the graduations. they should keep the activists out of those commitments so that the kids can enjoy the four years at the spent in college. >> you mentioned a free speech issue. how much, it's been described as a free speech versus a hate speech issue in terms of what is being set said at some of te rallies and the reasons why administrators have gotten law enforcement involved. what are your thoughts on the free speech versus hate speech aspect? >> caller: well, i think anybody spewing hate speech and death to jewish students and death to the united states should be considered hate speech and should be arrested, and the campuses should disqualify those students from being there because that is not i think free

speech when it goes, when you come out like that and it's like calling, it's like shouting out fire in a theater. it's what amplify all the anchor. >> losing your love it but i think i got your point there. this from the wrapup from "usa today." northeastern university over the weekend said 100 words came went and campus was cleared late saturday night at the boston area school. those who produce did i do were released but will face display proceedings at the school. those who do is a student id were arrested the event she said quote will begin as a student demonstration two days ago was infiltrated by professional organizers with no affiliation to northeastern. that's according to social media post put out by the school. quote, last night, the use of virulent anti-semitic slur including kill the jews crossed the line. we cannot tolerate this kind of hate speech on a campus, that

university post continued. video from the scene the string is however a traditional counter protesters holding israeli flags and that suggested kill the jews chant never gained traction, but that is the wrapup what happened at just one of those campus. we are getting your thoughts on this demonstration. phone lines, republicans, democrats come it up and an especial line for college students and administrators. this is mike and youngstown, ohio. good morning. >> caller: good morning. how are you doing today? >> doing well. >> caller: i don't think that, i think that right to protest. the right to free speech. there should be no violence, no damage done to anything, and if there is then there is a proper place for that. i mean, seems to me all over the world they are protesting

against the jews. i've nothing against myself, but people have right to say what they want. that's what i think. >> mike indo-this is sylvia in virginia, independent. go ahead. >> caller: yes, thank you. if someone gets hurt on either side i believe that's when the government should intervene. and if you take away the newspeople, i don't think, i think they just go on back to class because the think what fuels it is when all the news, you know, they know they're on tv and it just fuels and more. thank you. >> this is carl, north little rock, arkansas, republican. >> caller: yeah, i was just wondering why the national guard might possibly be called out across america for this when the national guard is hardly ever used or if it is the jews could on our southern border? the other interesting thing i

thought of was noticing that antifa is supposedly not even involved in any of these protests. and i think these protesters are a lot of them from the left. i thought antifa was a left organization. it odd that they themselves are not anywhere to be seen. the other point i wanted to make is that i think george soros from what i've read or his organizations having a lot to do with putting money behind these protests across the country. as far as it being organic and i think a lot of this is just all staged and a lot of it is just designed to further and in for actually not very good reasons. and i think there are a small group of people that are actually wanting something to happen on a much larger scale

for a further agenda. thank you. >> that's carl in arkansas. more on the discussion of how to respond to protest on college campuses. this from "fox news sunday," chris murphy of connecticut democrat being asked about it. >> lesson, we should all speak out when protests crosses a line, when it becomes violent or when there's hate speech. but 95% of the young people who are on these campuses are dead because they believe is the fundamental injustice being perpetrated in israel. we should protect the right to peaceful protest. we also have had his ship overnight halt at a protest in this country. i don't think there's anything wrong with protecting the ability of peaceful protests to last beyond a handful of hours. yes, there is a point in which these protests are going to get in the way of the efficient operation of a campus but i am not criminally offended by the fact that some of these protests go on for multiple days.

>> but the threat issue is a real issue. >> in some of these campus protest the been legitimate threats to students on campus, and to think in those instances campus police and local police can and should handle those threats. >> senator chris murphy on "fox news sunday" yesterday. back to your phone calls. this is martin in holland, michigan, independent, good morning. >> caller: yes. all these so-called protesters should be clearly identified, take away their masks. if the students at the university to suspend in the make sure the rest say on the record -- stay on the record. also keep in referring to this as protest. well, the way the virus is going on it's really an insurrection, and maybe congress should reenact or reestablish the january 6th committee and have liz cheney -- ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good morning to you all. that afternoon in europe and hello to wherever you are attending in the room. i'm fred kempe trump presidency view of the atlantic council. i'm pleased to serve as moderator for our fireside chat on the importance of supporting ukraine head of the washington summit. welcome back from your break here after headquarters. and just so you know, the ukrainian ambassador cannot only

make policy suggestions, , was also made a very big policy change your atlantic council. she likes these caps. we are now going to offer all important people were on our panels, and maybe even know people on our panels, a cup from the atlantic council. so that's a great innovation. and thank you for that suggestion. and so the government of norway and ukraine will not walk away from this session empty-handed. this year's event comes during milestone year for the lines as new celebrants 75 years of collective defense. next week at atlantic council have our distinguished leadership awards. one of the awardees will be the romanian president. one will be gina raimondo, , the commerce secretary, the famous actress michelle yeoh from everywhere, everything everywhere all at once.

and, but the question of said fifth anniversary of a nato of o representing artist in which leadership award, distinct military award to general cavoli, sipping on the command of your emerald to special salute that eating tainted s well. and we will be driving conversations about nato this entire year. as atlantic council always does with its particular emphasis this year. we have seen clearly in the bravery, to bravery of ukrainian people, even as russia continues to leverage its war machine against ukraine. russia's war cast a dark shadow over the summit proceedings this july, and mandates and allies response appropriate to this historic moment. i write an occasional column called inflection points. i wrote at of the congressional

decision on the supplemental i would geopolitical malpractice not to pass. i'm really glad they did pass at her with going to come to that and a second of what should come next. as heads of state and, convenient washington d.c. in the summer concrete 73 taken to give ukraine the continued and enhanced support it needs from the whole alliance. we are all delighted to see the positive critical youth support to ukraine finally move forward last week but we all know there's a lot more to be done. before we go into this conversation i would like to briefly take a moment to introduce our guests on stage with me today. so first and foremost i would like to welcome ambassador try to come ambassador to united states from ukraine has been a part of atlantic council as we continue to work to support ukraine. ambassador thank yous much for being here. prior to take on the full in 2021, the ambassadors of japan's

ministry of finance as first deputy minister and government minister on investments. and after 201818 as minister of finance. so we are honored to be joined by you today. additionally, we are joined and i'm just delighted, we just did a big gathering at your residence at the embassy, and we have been working together with you for a long time on issues that you are one of the leading experts on, issues of arctic issues of security policy, law of the sea. so anniken krutnes is the norwegian ambassador to the united states. she served with norwegian minister of foreign affairs since the beginning as a trainee in 1994. so you been there for a while. in a predisposition with the ministry jesus deputy director general of the department security policy, and before that she was norway's ambassador for arctic and antarctic affairs. this discussion is on the record.

we're going to leave some time as always for questions from audience. there's a microphone here where people can stand to deliver the questions, and if you're listening to us online then please submit a question to ask a cdot orrick and they will show up on my screen here. please identify yourself if you ask a question or if you ask it online is like to give you credit for your questions. we also invite you to interact with us on x formally known as twitter by following at atlantic council and by using our hashtag hashtag stronger with allies. so let's start with how you see the situation following the passing of the supplemental and ahead of the washington summit and that the situation on the ground. in my own writing ahead of passing the supplemental i invoked churchill where he said

americans would always do the right thing after exhausting all other alternatives. churchill actually never said that but it's a nice quote and so the toys when you don't know who is a person who said something the size could say churchill said. but the fact of a is, the fact of matter is we took a long time to pass we should've in past months ago. it didn't help on the ground, and, but we are we are. russia, there's great concern about a counter offensive this summer from russia that might be quite strong. and, of course, we had a summit what people are going to be wanting what we're going to do regarding ukraine in the short term, we determine long-term. let me start with you, ambassador markarova. you can tell me as early at this, what are your highest priorities? what's your biggest hope in the months ahead and maybe your biggest concern? >> thank you. thank you so much for having us and for this very timely discussion but also thank you to

the atlantic council for staying the course turned his time for all the publications and informing american public about what is important. first of all, the priorities never change today when russia invited us at the frankly never changed since 2014 when russia attacked as the first topic we need more weapons frequent or support for ukraine, or sanctioned uninstallation uninstallation to russia. that is always been the priority and it's important to keep us focused on because as long as congress has been really difficult six months, and we are catching up now, but it's not just the decision to we shouldn't address at the end of it same way, the congress adopted a supplemental pick because the speed at which we will turn the supplemental authorizations in into weapor into support for ukraine budget. ..

we can actually the defense and

opened. the occupied territories. there is a program. she said i lived. binkley are a number. this is horrible. >> i will come back and follow-up what is highest on your priority list.

>> i also needed coffee. i agree pimental has to be found as soon as possible. i think it's very important. supplemental is important but will not change so protect the people doctrine.

continue thinking next steps we cannot rest europe and the u.s. will gradually change the situation. that will follow russia with. >> let's take a look. there's a lot of conversation can washington about europe and don't support is important as it ought to be.

how do you see the division of labor what most important they getting from the u.s. box what are you getting from europe and now where american support will. i just wonder overtime performing your own capabilities. this is a gallery of the support is balanced and europe u.s. >> it takes a village to witness work. look at the mass you see when all of us euro costumes about

and did. so the americans who are appointed in the u.s. defense. for any that ukraine is, we use our defense. nobody is helping us find our armed forces.

they are all. for years. on a monthly basis and was covered by your grant european union. japan has been there, very good support so everyone is, if you look for contributions you will see care among readers who provided this support to us.

that will actually get us there. when, if the goal is to win, and all of us have to see the results. family are also in russian assets. european countries are reluctant. and the solution" quickly

together. >> are you getting what you want as opposed to the u.s., what more would you like? >> 800 miles and russians are taking us on a daily basis and they are simply facility. we need all the armored vehicles and these countries have enough especially given the fact that they don't have any reference.

still winnable war" we can do new with just our production we can break and deter russia from going which we will have to discuss with himself can do it but russians had time which is providing office work. they're using it and russia

together with iran. it's not just a threat to ukraine so just talk to the right decision now provide us with what you have. >> project underscore that because we are not seeing static stalemate situation but we are seeing russia getting more support from iran more support from china at the same time. >> this is the decision. if it's their gdp so much more than ours, i think it was organized start just big

statement huge look at, typically the u.s. and left men. but it and the military side and our case the same and the supplemental. the you look at 20 billion allocating, we really stepped up think we have to this

understanding of the war going on we have to click on both and we will review responsibilities. there are possible similarly so we have to take some special in europe and we are understanding -- >> what you see the priorities for what you are doing? >> a recent company cap just opened production and support on

the industrial base. now one of the biggest both calculi so we donate six to long-term. acute going you determine the rest. you doing what we can long-term and we have a five-year return and we have a strong negotiations.

that has a tenure horizon some of the countries combination and but long-term production of us think war and we have to continue and that building defense minister. >> let's fast-forward to july, nato summit.

if you look at the baltics during this period of time they have been threatened. he would think nato guaranteed makes the country mark secure but others say there guaranteed to make it less secure because test the ideal outcome of special keeping in mind and ms there were some disagreements, quote be an ideal outcome you heard, i think we have to build

a bridge to nato members so more responsibility for coordinating. nato has been working for many years and they use that coordinating we have all of these actual commencement to ukraine and altogether they built that bridge secretary (said, i think it was very well said sebastian.

ukrainians, with deliveries. sufficient, efficient and colors and what should there be for the average? >> it's important for were discussed any particular reason not president zelenskyy but i think we are focusing too much

on regions and not enough on strategy is the strategic objective of nato and for 60 years re- discussing different modalities expressed desire in the resident providing ukraine

russia. now it is very important to say and crush up weekly agreement with that work nato was better with russia. russia attacked in the beginning 2008 during all this time. important is the other way around. i think you are weak that we have to be very clear discussion the same page are not?

of course i would argue that the most capable resource the army not only using nato equipment because you pretty much use all nato for equipment but the russian equipment order using some of them to get the chart, this is what it is like a. he cannot deter russia from a large territory unless you are

prepared for ukraine to move which we are not prepared. we will fight until we went and if we went ukraine becomes, that will make nato and families more secure so this is what we have to discuss and if we are all on the same page on this how we get there, concrete plans on how to be more prepared going through our annual plans and it was executed successfully and it was created to do this. and they put together, that's

not how it works so we have to keep in mind to be ambassadors as nato. to be crystal here about that objective and that is not shared by all and it is a unanimous decision. and how we get to that. >> as you said ukraine is fighting for us to a certain degree i agree with the ambassador with focus too much and it's more important the underlying direction.

ambassador from york perspective move things forward worst four peace membership us not going to be tomorrow, there's have to membership guarantees along the way. and israel is not a member of nato there were number of countries that help defend israel at that time. so let me turn to you first and

reasonable intraparty concerns. >> security. >> i will start taking questions of people want to go to the microphone, turned to them and we have a questions here in front of me on the screen. >> this is a nato membership. ukraine should become nato member and to help the process move forward and interoperability helping the

institutional reform. all of that is on track so we are looking forward with you on that. a complicated issue and talking a lot about that european security and i don't think i should go too much into that because it is being custom so many faces. step ups. most countries now are on super

sense. >> to the minister and all focus on this also more security like ukraine and others to say there

aren't you going. what we have to focus on the to get where we need to get? and also russia and all russian eggs talking about these use in the russian banks. and we had to agent : the backbone of and help them we

have to move forward consciously. >> the security we have with many countries so we send a strong to ukraine i look forward. >> be information which will be this summer which is important because we need organizations to

participate in together to get interest to participate. for them it's not against ukraine, sunday november against europe for the rest. it's against everyone on the planet who believes in sovereignties and of course nato is important member of. limit it helps us and there is so much institutionally, it's natural we look forward and open.

and this is on all of us into these decisions they have not achieved what they wanted. look at nato. i don't think russia is happy. i really appreciate the work. we cannot. >> let me pick up a couple of questions. i think i'm asking you to go over there because i know he's just been like maybe you could

go behind let me ask either one of you actually went to the question of what security guarantees income for the questions during active debate i am hearing in washington the security guarantees but up a storm security county in the territory it would increase

guarantees from a group of nato countries tornado itself expands or escalates. >> from spike i go into much more ready. >> no will will know previous models no with germany. you can happen from it would not

is going. >> i don't think any of them to the applicable. ukraine the 1994) third largest personnel and learn bit is definitely not so i think we have to be clear. the only guarantee when we all protect each other with everything we had in the provides us with the basis for the plan.

security guaranteed together and i going to go back and get back and let us very important and they violated un so russians withdrawal from ukraine ordered so when we are talking about security guarantees for anything we talk when ukraine went.

if that doesn't happen in the whole international is not stored battle but if that happens, i don't think why they can be a member of nato at the time. he and for the online audience, please identify yourself. >> the atlantic council 2020" assistance the last few years when the justification is they

promote russia and the nuclear domain. nato membership for ukraine or russia is inflation. this of escalation what you sure and that risk? >> let's not forget nuclear escalation and potential concerns. let me to questions. >> the support in the house

intelligence committee this is us. how do you information being bombarded by law and human we have these conversations on this. the american public. it's just i think that talk

about that spirit it has been. beginning we just don't have the capability of rain of collation very important thing that and

beginning a. russian will talk about escalation in the countries out and this is quite. they want to occupy and and every advancement so it is clear they will raise both redline everyone including nuclear every time 50 your providing more support in reminding people program by happened before that.

no refocusing. the day with the vendor with everything ability and agreement already a couple of villages and crimea is off limits we will continue to do so so we just have to understand everything from torture, rape, all the war crime including what was already

indicted. always start by saying think what you do if you are not and what we will do. and finalize them. the second question.

>> they are predictable. >> let me ask you the question, think what you would do if you are not afraid. go to the nato membership, is escalatory or the escalatory? >> as long as there is a war going on, the kind of complicated. we have to do things i.

>> we have on our side to be very clear we have to make sure our information is correct can have facts so nobody can we are doing this and we have to inform a lot. when president zelenskyy focuses directly, inform our citizens we should use social media and dollars for the information, we

should guarantee eight the freedom of press are countries and it's very difficult to see them moving in their propaganda. >> yourself for the audience that watching organizers so somebody could signal that new mexico talk about between now and nato conference for ukraine to survive. talking strong except for germany to put out and asked voting to switzerland there's no

signs of the u.s. on escalatory, the escalatory the united states for the white house taking crimea are untenable was always a redline. now the u.s. spent long range attacks. do you feel personnel blockage on the united states, no? trying to make crimea untenable? >> i liked your answer. i've heard you say this before, i like it even more now ukraine should not regularly spell focus on the end result and hopefully

the problems get easier so here's my question -- here different things about military tactics. a month ago the word came out protect oil and russia angry here it enables russian territory. defendant larry defense austin said recently we hope ukraine will will will what is your understanding of the american decision" box if you choose not to answer, i get it. it's okay. >> think you for your work and i would encourage you keep asking all those questions and i cannot

speak say how grateful we are. we have to win this war and we are defending ourselves in this work. and clearly allows us to defend ourselves including the present from the territory. all of the attacks and everything to defend ourselves from abilities. capabilities beget, the faster we can liberate. there's no difference between crimea or anything else in the

declaration of the rest in a supportive every year after that. liberate all ukraine and with our american friends in the considerations going russia we are doing this but we have to you whatever to when this work ukraine is the one her own territory including how we treat

the war. i like what they're doing. i followed your work and you are the first one in 2000 and you knew nothing good was going to be there we cannot survive put more in our defense. they can reach it with the system.

say what it is. thank strike them so urgently need air defense. it will be there and air defense capabilities and everything else and it's urgent. grateful to congress and everyone to be approved.

>> you have the final word. >> the german initiative so we will win this war. everything you need and long-term, we need to do both. >> thanks for the online questions to wonderful imposters show even more in the coming days and months.

>> the city of felt. >> think about that discussion, who will take a couple of minutes he rearranged the stage of the supply because u.s. foreign affairs correspondence. and we will be back momentarily.

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♪♪ ♪♪ >> hello everyone, our final panel charting a path for the community after washington. my name is felicia, the foreign affairs correspondent. the world largest is much to celebrate, this milestone marks 35 years and collective defense and the founders have turned

into 30 members with military threats and delivered. barry looking at an important summit in washington and this will form the backtracks of the summit but while there is much, there is a threat security and defense. i am here with an all-star panel today. i will start on the end. we have james montgomery had of the embassy, a job he's held since july of 22. ...

his priestly director and senior fellow at brookings and is written several books including aftershocks, pandemic politics and end of the old international order. next with ambassador yuri kim, currently the principal deputy assistant secretary of state for europe and eurasian affairs. she is a career diplomat who is worked on many key foreign policy -- foreign policy nasa security challenges and was also ambassador to republic of albania from 2020-2023. i got to see a much of a celebrity a much of a celebrity she is a bear. and then last and certainly not least we have mr. axel dittmann, deputy chief of mission and chargé d'affaires the german embassy and okay, let's get started. just to kind of two things up and looking back to 2023 and vilnius and thinking about where we will go this summer, what is your assessment of how, and whoever wants to jump in verse go ahead, what is your assessment of how the

implementation of nato's plan from villas are going? what you think things stand about 100 days out from the summit? >> start with you at the end. >> sure. i mean, i think let's remember as you do said nato has been around for several years now. that's a significant milestone. i about a billion people across the north atlantic area who are secured by this incredible lines. it's twisted the test of time and emerged the most extraordinary complex europe as it ever seen. i think nato is in a good place. i think vilnius certainly tested us because vilnius was fundamentally about ukraine and the challenge russia's invasion of ukraine has created for us as an alliance. something fundamentally ukraine will strengthen the alliance. i think putin want less nato and you get more nato. he's got a rejuvenated nato and

to make new members and longer nato order. something fundamentally nato is in a better place but we need to adapt and can you do to think about how we face new threats and challenges. i think the ukraine where has shown the defense industrial complex is still critical and we need to continue to invest in that. uk has announced they will move to 2.5% spending on our military defense budget by 2030. that is part of because we need to reinvest in our defense industry complex. we've got to think about the future of conflict. ukraine and the russians are constantly innovating a front lines. we need to learn from those lessons, think about cyber, think about on data comes together and most capable tech countries. think about cyber policies under cyber strategies and heavy can contest in that space. fundamentally we need to think about what conflict will look like in ten, 20 years time.

as we think about the successes we can accelerate in washington we also need to look to future what we can see. >> tom, what do you think will feature at the top of the agenda for the summit, especially course for the u.s. and the president? >> yeah, i very much agree with james and what a think at the 75 year mark i think the last to celebrate the last sort of take note of in terms of the critical role nato has played in the securing of europe and for the many decades. anything we look forward, i know that the topic of this how as well i think the summit, ukraine will be at key part of that and finding unpacking what is the bridge to nato at the membership for ukraine, what does it mean, how can we help ukraine strengthen its own defense and be able to deter future attack i

think that's a key development but it agree with the james that there's a broader set of challenges there about the changing nature of conflict that nato's role in the world, that our sort of efforts to shape and reshape the international order so it it aligns with our values and interests. this summit some sort ofe heels of what we're seeing other totalitarian countries increasing their cooperation with each other in a range of different areas. i think what we're seeing that nato but was also alliances and partnerships more general is that our allies and partners are deepening cooperation with us in very significant ways, both to address immediate challenges but also to build that capacity sort of for the future. >> ambassador kim, to you, in terms of how the priorities will

stack up, what areas of divergence to anticipate and what areas do you think will be easier to solve? [inaudible] >> look, , the fact of the mattr is that nato is bigger, stronger that it is been at any time in history. [inaudible] and as we head towards the summit in washington this summer, we are looking at celebrating how far we've come and what -- [inaudible] look at the threats we face now. and then we are projecting -- [inaudible] celebrating 75 but also position ourselves to make sure -- [inaudible] that means we have to -- already emerging threats.

[inaudible] hybrid, cybercom all those other threats that are on the cusp coming towards us. want to make sure that we are preparing for membership when that moment comes. the president is very clear -- [inaudible] will be part of our alliance. the third part is making sure that all of our allies are able to fulfill the commitment that we make to each other. and that includes burden sharing. so ten years ago in, when we made the commitment to each other on 2%, we were at a point where only three of the allies were meeting. ten years on, 20 of our allies, or two-thirds. we all agreed that 2% --

[inaudible] soberly at a very robust increase and modernization of our capability. and we're looking at an alliance the really is increasingly at the core global -- [inaudible] >> mr. dittmann, what do you see as germany's priorities heading into the summit? >> thanks very much. it's very important -- [inaudible] and so we have to focus on -- [inaudible]

[inaudible] and i think there's number of other things also, look at the capability to react in this securities environment -- [inaudible] deterrent -- [inaudible] there's a number of very concrete things we have -- [inaudible] i think that's a very important

thing. [inaudible] very concretely. [inaudible] >> i don't know how many of you watching for in the room were at the vilnius summit last year, but the ukraine deliverable definitely proved to be a bit contentious and hermetic at the end, which i think it's sometimes rare for nato summits. so with that in mind, do you anticipate any drama on the ukraine deliverable? or what you see as realistic deliverable, and how can you get there? i will conjure all of you are lining up to answer this question, but maybe we'll start with ambassador kim or tom. >> i'm happy to jump in. and, i think it's a look at what happened last year, i think it

was in a pretty constructive plastic leaf look at the disagreements, i think part of it was on the type of force that sort of signify commitment anything on when in people said we have signified commitments to join nato, very clear and others that wanted to have for malaysia vorster elicited that. so was a bit of a difference than a substantive difference. i think what we're focused on this year is very much that concretely, what concretely can we do to strengthen ukraine's capacity and defense and also to build up the bridge to nato. that has several components to it. one element is sort nato's role is working with uk number working on that with allies and with ukraine sort of at the moment to build that out. that would be one piece. i think a second piece is a

bilateral to get agreement that is, that were working on with him now, which started actually in vilnius with the joint declaration. but that is about making sure we're trying to build at their capacity to defend themselves and to deter a a future attaco build that force of the future in ukraine. that is not any think there's some confusion on this, last year in the gender they come is not incompatible with nato membership but actually strengthens it because when ukraine joined nato in the future, if it has a very strong military that's capable of deterring a russian attack, on its own merits, that will, you know, that will be strengthened and enhanced by sort of the island can of it as well. so things may be as when together. the final piece i think is that support for ukraine's defense

industrial base, helping them to do the type of things they need to do as you i think mentioned earlier to be making those innovations, you know, on the battlefield to help them defeat russian forces in ukraine. but yuri may have additional things to have i think that's how we sort of see that. >> although that -- the term drama. it's actually come to me it's not drama. it's actually the importance of the moment. and i think allies a much of the rest of the world are very alive and alert to the threat that rush is posing. we had one of the five roman members of the u.n. security council having invaded a neighbor, invaded a neighbor, and is flouting the most basic

rules that have governed international relations and that of undergirded peace and security for much of the world for the last 80 years since the end of world war ii. it's a big deal. and if we were having boring talking points read out to each other at a summit or even any forum like this, that would be cause for worry. so the passion and the commitment with which people are staking a position as we head towards washington, i think that's an issue at all. i think that's a healthy, important -- but what i said is very clear to me as i work these issues is that we are bigger, stronger and more united than ever before. >> for either of our dcm onstage come what may which to think on ukraine is realistic at this point? item who wants to jump in first.

>> you know, i think tom captured the spirit of the intent with this concept of the bridge into nato for ukraine. the uk is absolutely convinced that ukraine's place is in the of the want to see accelerating trajectory on that. but if it yeary is absolutely right that fundamentally we need to help ukraine fight this war right now. that actually has to be the focus. we need native to get behind ukraine and tuppence start pushing that line. so that is the focus. i agree there has to be passion in this debate. what we want is people can with ideas and come with a challenge and actually testing the proposition so we get this straight. we've got to get it right. and so in some ways trauma is not a bad think i'm not sure it was as traumatic maybe as that but the key thing is that were having a conversation and the conversation is lively and helps

us arrive at the right point. one thing i will say is this is an important landmark summit. it's happening in washington, and i think the incredible focus the united states is bringing host and his partner to bring to discussion brings the conference we will get to the right place. >> what do you think is realistic, or what does germany want to see? [inaudible] the thing -- [inaudible] if it's not working -- [inaudible] data, ukraine. -- nato, ukraine. [inaudible] so i think these are important issues that we will be working on stronger roles for nato in

coordinating our militaries. and at the same time it's so important that we welcome very practical things to help ukraine and to make sure that russia loses. there's a number of things to which, things in place like, for example, air defense. we have just stationed a third patriot the system in ukraine. other things production and delivery of munitions. i think we've taken some steps here also in building new factories doing that. but, of course, it is so important of the decision taken last week of the supplemental to fill in the gaps and to deliver

what is needed. >> ambassador kim, just to follow up on a threat from dcm dittmann. i know with the meeting this proposal use mentioned about nato taking a greater role in court needing assistance came up. my reporting suggested may be stoltenberg is a more enthusiastic about it than the u.s. might be. i wonder where things stand on this idea, what you all at the state department think about the notion of nato playing him are organizing role, especially because now the u.s. has been able to pass the supplemental which was i think in doubt when it was first brought up. >> so a couple of things. in our 2022 strategic concept, we identified russian as the biggest threat against

euro-atlantic peace and secretive. security. so that's never one. number two, the reality is that almost every nato ally is providing physical support. we want to make sure that as we contend with the threat posed by russia and as we support ukraine's effort to win the war that was imposed on them, that we do so in an organized and coordinated fashion so that we are frankly making the best use of taxpayer dollars and we're providing ukraine with the support that it needs on a timeline and any fashion that makes the most sense on the battlefield. >> and thomas, you mentioned the bilateral agreements that were announced last year. i think the uk has completed yours. you with the first ones i believe. how would you grade the process

of getting those agreements up and running? and where would you like a degree in 100 days time? >> yeah, i think it's going very well. i don't know what, you know, obviously biased in terms of what grade. but it think the process has gone well. i think if you look back to where it started, you know, i think prior to film his there was maybe a bit of a sense that the question role was behind it. there either a member or sort of not a member. i think what we're trying to do was think about ways in which we could unpack that a little bit and make sure that as ukraine progressed to being a member which is comforted because in the midst of major war right now, that we can take steps that would sort of enhance their defense and security in the here

and now and then extra years. so whenever that moment rose when it did join that there would be in in a strong posi. i don't think that was necessarily sort of obvious to everyone, including to them or to ourselves at the time. i think it was a sense maybe doesn't take away from nato? is that something different? in the run-up to vilnius we agreed is this is sort of an important part. those the glaciations, you kaser demonstrates -- negotiations -- quickly where sort of wound away on arsenic think as it unfolds between now and the next -- [inaudible] i think were still working on exactly when and how to finalize to announce it. but it think there increasingly seen that as an important and key component of ukraine's

security, but also of its membership in nato. >> and okay, now this is one for our british and german friends on the panel. we will start with you. shortly i think right after the nato summit the would be the republican convention. trump, the republican candidate, has pretty consistently suggested he could drag america away from nato and want to see if your of course do more regardless in the alliance. what message do you think or would you like to have trump and not just trump of members of his party who are skeptical about u.s. present in nato, what do you hope will be on display at the summit as that sentiment is going in the u.s.?

>> i think important signature, i would say that regardless of the elections coming up, the strength of the alliance, the strength of the transatlantic alliance completely crucial for the security in europe. something which, crucially for the interest of the united states. and practically, i hope and a believe, that what will come out of the sum is only a very clear support, practical support, strategic support to ukraine. but there's also the question of europe stepping up its commitment here, and the burden sharing, there's not just a

slogan, a word where europe is not delivering but europe really is taking this responsibility serious and doing this with very concrete money and measures. yuri kim i think mentioned 20 now of nato fulfilling the 2% goal. and clear commitment offer by committee leadership that this will be done and a sustainable manner. i think the other thing which should come out and i guess will come out is that this is not just also about money. it is not very concrete -- which is going on. we are shoring up this. together, we are looking at very

concrete armament production to really help deterrence and defense capability. so i think out of the summit will come the necessity of the alliance, also about very concrete contributions in particular also by your. >> anything to add? >> i will just say that the united states is being, has led nato throughout it's time and has provided leadership throughout it's time. and president trump has already been president of the united states and the united states remained committed to nato rights to that trade back. and again provided leadership right to that. back. i think he rightly drove nato to do more on spending. ambassador kim talked about the fact that we have moved from

2014 with 3% of members spending 2% up to maybe two-thirds of members now, i think in tunica bruschetta making sure that 2% is of the floor. as the said uk is now committed to 2.5 by 2030. i think that is important. i also noticed that just before the supplemental passed last week president trump asked for your to do more in ukraine. well, we are doing more in ukraine and will continue to do more in ukraine. but he also said that we need a secure and strong ukraine. i think we also agree with that as well. so i think we don't the united states will continue to be the essential partner for europe, whatever happens. >> can ask before move on to dig a bit deeper. i wonder how come the supplement of course has been very large over of all these conversations i'm sure. i wonder what you are hearing

from the other members of nato about this sentiment as you are in the run-up to the summit? >> yeah, i can start now. i think the first point just to reinforce something ambassador kim said earlier on on the meta burden sharing we're seeing. a lot of it is often focus on the 2% number because of the historical importance of that and i think that's critically important. what i think you can also look at it in dollar numbers, to pick if you look at the first, the three years of this administration, not our allies and partners in nato have increased their annual spending and defense over that time by about $78 billion a year. if you look at the four years previous to that, the increased between the start of the administration and the administration was probably $70 billion.

and previous to that in the obama administration and prior we were sort of in a time of war cuts jump up until 2014 when is sort to increase again. i think you can make a strong case about what we are seeing over the last three years is actually a historic sort of increase in allied activity on their defensive security, take a in europe but also more generally. we are seeing european allies become quite interest in what's happening in the pacific, and indo-pacific become quite interesting was happening in ukraine and in europe because they see our security as and are dependent and linked so i think there is, we've seen real historic achievements i think on the burden sharing site. the other point which is make, in answer to question about our people nervous i what do you think, i'm not going to get an obviously to the election piece of this body would say i have

seen reports that say we try to trump prove this or things like that. that is not what we're doing at all. we're trying to take steps at nato in relationship to ukraine that make sense regardless of who is president. there are things we think are sensible and right for u.s. interests, regardless of who is sort of an office, which which is what i think we should be doing. it's not about trying to think through different scenarios and how to -- sort of going forward, but these are steps i think that make, that enhance u.s. interests, make transatlantic security stronger and make ukraine stronger as it fights for its existence and for its sovereignty. >> i will ask you a different question, abbasid again, which is we avenue, are you all spoke a lot about 2% as the floor, not

a ceiling. i wonder from u.s. perspective beyond any more money on defense what type of plan capacities or capability investments do you think or does he use think that european allies need to kick up to try to increase and more a complete distributed burden sharing in the light? >> i want to underscore again that allies together are doing much more than we've ever done in quite some time, and what putin has succeeded phenomenally at doing is concentrating the mind. and reinvigorating the recently nato -- the first place. abby looked to the future the next 75 years, we are going to need to look very carefully at the capabilities we need. and allies are very closely engaged in in the discussion. you will see that reflected in some of the documents that come out during the summit in washington.

but beyond that we all had a a recognition that we also need to reinvigorate our defense the database. what we're seeing now is russia with the assistance of chinese company is reinvigorating at a pace and scale that we haven't seen since the collapse of the soviet union. we have to at least keep pace with that, at least. i think most of us agree that we have to beat that. so whether it's looking at what we need to do in the united states to increase the pace with which we produce their ou, for example, or we look at the production of f-35s f-16s. every country is going be to look at that and we as i slept come together on an agreed plan. >> i think you mentioned germany's commitment to defense spending earlier this year.

tell us a bit more about what this means for the lights going forward and what you hope to see from a other countries as their making commitments. [inaudible] >> i mean what signal do you think german has pledged to spend more? >> i think for us it's -- [inaudible] speech three to four days after renewed russian invasion of ukraine and i think this is really a strategic shift to us and committed 100 billion euro for defense. i think we're putting that absolutely to use. i love the procurement decisions which are not being implemented. a lot of them also in close cooperation and benefiting u.s.

producers. the f-35s, other aircraft. is a very substantial. but i would like, this of course not like the one time thing. it's as if it before we will sustain. i would like to pick up one thing which yuri just mentioned here, that is the defense industrial base, cuba also to produce equipment, to produce ammunition that we need is also a proposal now within the european union. the commission's made reported to a ramp up the production, this is something we're looking at. so this is something where we -- lots to do within the eu, with aware of it, to really, speaking

about joint procurement, operability, joint research developer, joint production, you name it. i think that would of thought of things we have on the table and is also some important steps going on. this is not a theoretical discussion. i can say for france and germany, this is for 155 million, just started construction but also their defense. we build a factory to produce -- [inaudible] this is really i think things which are going on. nato remains the backdrop for our security. we will see, i spoke more about the european union of course

break close cooperation with uk make clear and we could see when -- also announced joint production of artillery system. so i think this is unique, shows that it's not, not just a number. it would also not very concrete capabilities and coordinated to show strength of nato. >> just digging into some of the commitments of the defense industry base that were made at vilnius last year. nato leaders agreed on the defense production action plan, aiming to create a sustainable defense industry as all of you have discussed. what do you think is required for the up limitation of this to be successful? and how can allies and particularly industry partners step up to make this a reality? >> sought think one of the

things we need to do is, show long-term spending commitments so that the private sector, the industry can with confidence make investments they need to be able to deliver what we need. refer to some of the steps the uk, the german partners have taken to show that commitment, to signal their long-term spending will be there for that. and i think that needs to happen in the artillery space, but we also have to focus on the cyberspace as well. i think ukraine has really shown that you need real rigorous cooperation with the private sector to think about your cyber vulnerabilities and how you defend against attack and how you have the capability to inflict damage if you are attacked in turn pics i think working with the private sector, with the big tech capable countries across nato to work at how we make these partnerships

work. and then finally learning from ukraine. both sides innovating in extraordinary ways on the front lines in the molko particularly in terms of drone warfare, use of ai, terms of target acquisition. making sure we stay on the cutting edge of that nature our technology is future produced and pray for future complex. >> tom or here, what if you have any thoughts about what deliverables in the database when i to see which are working towards? >> we are still working at the package for washington, but i can tell you that the defense industry base will be a part of this. >> no more details for the rest? wait and see. does anyone else want to add on the database? >> can i just did one thing? i think what we're seeing in ukraine it's quite interesting because with sort of two buckets on the defense the database.

one is we're seeing companies and the protection system and how to crank out more sort of 155 or other things they need. and i think that's happening. it's incremental, painfully into middle because it's not a money issue. all sorts of things going to come included on the supply chain and other things, , enorms amount of work on. i think that's one side of it and that's for us, for the trend come for allies and but also for ukraine. the other part which i think they are quite adept that is very entrepreneurial the -- the battlefront in designing specific response to particular problems that they encounter, sorted in real time. [inaudible] that is a think james was saying we can learn from that.

i think that something we can help sort of facility. i think you're saying those two different sort of vectors of change come together, and we need to sort of recognize that and built on it and obviously we agreed to help them. >> and obviously ukraine has a lot of very immediate needs as we've seen in the supplemental and the announcement uk has made and others and so on. how can the alliance balance this critical moment for ukraine with planning for its longer-term future? >> what i would say to that is russia has very clearly signaled the remain the great threat, immediate threat to nato. and in many ways russia has shown their hand in terms of the threat that they posed pics i think in the immediate term making sure we have the

capability to deter further and to give ukraine what it needs to succeed and make sure that putin fails in ukraine, those are the two immediate issues. tom touched on the fact that we offer need to talk to our indo-pacific partners and we will do that again in washington. washington. i think as we've seen, ambassador kim talked about russian help, sorry, chinese help to russian terms of their own rearmament process. it's disappointing to see that from chinese companies. i hope the chinese government will look very covert of this and do what they can to curb that activity and stop the activity. but i think we need to see the continuing of threats globally and work with our partners across the world to make sure we secure our future. >> just one more question for all of you before return to the audience and our viewers at

home. home. so think of your questions now. picky up on this thread about china and indo-pacific. you know, i wonder if the chip you could wait and on how you think china, whether it's role helping brushy and the conflict in ukraine or how nato is think about china, how china will figure in this historic summit. maybe ambassador kim, , start wh you. >> there's an increasing connection that's obvious to everybody that what happened in indo-pacific has direct bearing on security in the euro atlantic. you are going to see more and more of that discussion, about strategizing as we go forward. one of the ways in which we talk to the chinese about this issue and secretary blinken i'm sure discussed it with anybody else that he sought in beijing when he was there a few days ago, is that you can't, on the one hand, say that you want a stable,

peaceful, productive relationship with the united states and with europe, on the one hand. and then on the other enable what we have clearly and very publicly identified as the greatest threat to our security. so you can have both of these happening at the same time. china has got to make some tough decisions as well. and if their past decision-making is anything to judge by, we think overall they will decide to invest in the future, which is they need the european market. they need cooperation with the united states. and we would like the same. we don't have any interest in having a contentious relationship with china. we want to compete but we don't want a conflict.

>> china will -- [inaudible] >> and what happens in the pacific has also impact on our security in europe. it's important to have a strategic discussion with asia-pacific partners, which is going to happen together with the discussion of the eu, very important. and i agree that you cannot have like, you cannot separate the trade and security, treated as completely unrelated. chinese support for the russian war effort is very critical and problematic for european security. and it was raised by the

chancery in his discussions when he was in beijing. so it's an important issue. >> okay. i think we will open up for questions. i had some on the ipad but if there's anyone in the room the once to ask one. i think -- please introduce yourself. >> my name is catarina. i have salute with school public servant under the question to all panelists. so we know that putin believes in time is on his side and that he basically accounts very much on the political landscape change in 2025 to his advantage. and not only political but the military consequentially. so my question to all of you, what conclusion would you like him to drop out of the washington summit? thank you.

>> i will just keep it very simple. nato is bigger, stronger, more united than ever before. and mr. putin has been wrong from the start. many of us in fact, have been wrong. when he went in with his full-scale invasion which, by the way, we warned about publicly, and he lied and said he had no intention of doing that, he went in unfair the 24th, 2022, with the expectation that kyiv would fall within days. didn't happen. what the plaintiff and able to achieve over the last two years, the on the simple act of endurance, is to push back the black sea fleet which i bet you none of us would ever have predicted. they had kept odessa open. they have kept this is going. and they have damaged the

russian army in ways we could not have imagined. so i would say that mr. putin might want to be a little more modest in his predictions about what could happen. and i think we also should take some lessons from what we have witnessed over the last two years. [inaudible] -- putin will fail but nato is resolute and united in its support of ukraine and will stand with ukraine. until putin is defeated. and he needs to start thinking about a plan b. >> trudy rubin from "the philadelphia inquirer." there are several weeks before they need a conference, and what happens on the ground in ukraine between now and then will be critical. so i'm wondering, even the domestic concerns both in the

united states and in europe about air defenses, i want to ask everyone, do you think that the seven additional systems that the ukrainians say they need to defend their city will be found between -- germany has led the way with a new one in addition to what they've already set. but everyone else seems to be having a lot of trouble in figure out how they can give more. and on the german side you have been in the forefront with your new system of patronage system on offer, but is there a chance that. [inaudible] will follow? >> on the last question i cannot

really say anything beyond highest political authorities made the statement of that on the record, so that's why i have nothing to add on this one. but i can say that we are the second largest military contributor to ukraine. largest in europe. we are absolutely determined to continue to support ukraine for as long as it takes. so that putin does not win, defeated. and i can say you are also trying to look at, as you pointed out, very immediate needs for ukraine. air defense is one. deliver system, working together with partner to try to get more

to ukraine. >> idol, ambassador kim, tom, use scorning all this? >> yeah, i can start. trudy, good to see you. i think it's a great question. i think before you get to the their defense, i will just say what we been seen publicly over the last few weeks, of which is we are worried about ukraine's situation. you know, the fact the supplemental took so long. thankfully, they came through and that's a great sort of achievement for everyone. it's absolutely critical to ukraine's success. but the problems that existed a few weeks ago will not be solved overnight. i mean it takes ss as we rushed the stuff the ukraine, it will take time for it to be absorbed, for it to be used, and for ukraine to strengthen its defense against these russian

attacks. as we come up to nato summit, i think the overall message is one about unity, strength and support for ukraine. but, unfortunately, that could coexist alongside difficult days on a battlefield for ukraine that's under pressure. because it will take time to reverse that. i mean, i think steady progress has been made towards that but that's the world that we are in. know know what i think is a e critical than on their ai. i think that something we and everyone on the stage has been warning about for some time. because again, as you know air defense, it's absolutely critical that we have the number of interceptors and greater in everything that allows it to be effective. so the systems are also maintained by the risk of not getting support to ukraine and not getting the supplement at

all was that russia would end up being able to destroy those systems and king air security which is something it has not had in this conflict to date. thankfully. and so we're working sort of everyday come on everyone on this stage is to get as much sort of a error defense all te different components of that system over to ukraine as fast as possible. i don't have anything sort of new to sort of announce in response to question except that i think it is, it's not are very top, one of the very top sort of priorities that we have. i think everybody understands the incredible importance of that aspect of ukraine's defens defense. >> i will take one from the ipad. there still time for you guys ask questions if you'd like. this one is not fun but i find interesting or if russia and china are learning the lessons from ukraine, one likely to do with the risks that come with

attacks and the sultan first hybridoma. nato and allies and eastern flank expect russian aggression acutely and already crowded with the rate of hybrid attacked the estate address to address threats and hybrid domain of what might allies of what is due to increasing lights his ability to do with threats below the threshold? >> doing if you want to jump in? >> so i think this is definitely the frontier and the area where we need to focus a lot of our efforts. i think you're right that particularly the states in the east of the new alliance have been grappling with cyber attacks from sources outside nato for some time now. and that sort of established quite strong capability in dealing with that. we need to continue to invest in that. in particular we need to continue to look at nato doctrine and the way that cyber features in the doctrine and we would think about the response

to cyber. but i will say this, ukraine has led the way in showing how you respond to russian cyber aggression. and again it did because it had extrudate partnership from the private sector who were willing to really lean in and help ukraine. the way ukraine has moved its own tech capability into the cloud and learn to defend its there. and also whether used cyber not just in terms of protecting and defending their domestic capability also enhancing their were fighting cube of those really, really impressive. >> i am going to take the moderators liberty and talk in one of my own that the toss the will of my own but there's a good atlantic council paper. sorry, the author's name escape the of the month for suggesting is right likely putin would launch a new offensive around the times of the summit. maybe we can start with one of the americans on the panel.

but i but i wonder how you t this risk and what, if anything, you can do about it as you are making preparation? >> we are already seeing it, right? the russians have launched a major assault on ukraine's energy infrastructure. they're hitting it now. they are sort of, they counted on that gap between the into major funding and our ability to push through with supplemental funding from the united states they've exploited that moment. we can expect the would be some of those effects becoming more starkly visible as we head into the winter. we don't fully see it now because we are at the spring and summer time weather, but it's going to get bad. i think we should be be prepared for that. in response to that and it anticipation of further attacks, this is where it goes back to know the question you asked

about their defense to win looking and looking again, asking all allies and partners to take another look to see what we have in terms of interceptors, launchers, radars, anything else that can be repurposed, adjusted to fit the need, , the urgent need for air defense. and at the same time we have these capability coalitions, one of which is for the f-16. that capability should be coming online soon. >> anything to add about the prospect of more major russian defense as the summit approaches? >> one thing, i think what he said a moment ago, that's relevant here but i think it's incredibly important that we help ukraine this year be able to defend its lines. and that is not the same as sort of saying we want it to settle

for the status quo or that it should sort of just to get an sort of take the assault from russia. what it is saying is that this is going to take some time, but right now because of its munitions advance, because of what we've what we seen over the last six months, russia feels in position to be able to do this, and that it's incredibly important that ukraine can hold the line and can prevent russia from making those games, and also impose a heavy cost on russia as it tries to do that. that is a prerequisite for then ukraine subsequently being able to retake territory would not pressure on russia that putin is actually willing to negotiate for real and withdraw from territory. this year especially the next few months i think all of that is rooted critically important. >> okay. this one is from iris, senior

advisor at the scowcroft city. whether be sufficient for the july some? it applies back to usual business. war is never business issue. it's a crisis, a battle is either/or when liz. with the washington summit be business as usual are well heads of state government arrived ready to do what it takes? how might we reframe the summit accordingly to correct this shortfall? >> well, i hope none of the conversation we had today sounds like business as usual. because it has not been business as usual since putin invaded ukraine. it's that been business as usual for nato as we have responded to that threat. so absolutely, this is a summit where we can rightly celebrate the peace nato has delivered and effect needed to deliver at the end of the cold war. but also rightly focus on the immediate threat now, which is

defeating putin and ukraine. just to trackback to your last question, i think we should forget as accurate as ambassador kim suggest how extremely ukraine is been used in up to this russian aggression. just how extraordinary they were in repulsing the initial invasion, how extraordinary they were in retaking much of the territory they lost the initial phase. but we all need to think now, not just nato and ukraine's bargain but ukraine themselves about what they need to do over the coming time to make sure that they finish the job. >> i think we have time for one more question. so make it count. >> my name is that i'm an assistant director at the trend of unseeded initiative here at the celts. i want to check for some and addition to ukraine with the situation in the balkans where it's competent with increasing russian posturing and messaging towards the region and especially for you, ambassador kim picky that expense in the

region. what is your view on a we doing enough to really ensure the security of the western balkans? and engage with leaders in a productive way in which battling nato but general trancelike relationship the sort of firmly anchored in the region and across the region. thank you. >> so clearly the big, the big kahuna is still just that we need to speak with the russians doing in ukraine. at the same time we can walk and chew gum at the same time. and what we also want to do is to pay attention to exactly what you say. countries that are not necessarily geographically but in other ways on the periphery, the balkans. we can see with the russians are tried to do with their disinformation, and we sang a couple of incidents now where it

calls to mind an arsonist calling the police station to say there's a fire about to start. so we see it. we also see with the russians were trying to do in the south caucasus. so in all these areas, short answer to question of are we doing enough? i don't know. i don't know i with it that way, but we should certainly be very, very alert to what the russians are attempting to do there. >> in the last thoughts? >> i think -- [inaudible] cannot and are not losing sight of what's going on in the western balkans. we're moving much too slowly towards accession, but conditions have to be met, to move that along. ..

thank you to all of the

panelists, thank you everybody for attending and taking part in this event and a special thank you to our partners at the ministry of national defense for the partnership in court for timely discussion like the one we have today. the transatlantic security in the event of counsel. security initiative report nato washington summit campaign. please continue to stay engaged and follow us on or formerly twitter. until next time, thank you very much and give our panelists around of balls. [applause]

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