>> we will win because we are united. ukraine america and the entire free world. [applause] >> c-span, powered by cable. >> up next, federal communications commission chair jessica and commissioner brandon carr testify on the fcc's 2025 budget request, they addressed the importance of affordable

broadband and needed upgrades to the 911 emergency system. the house appropriation hearing is about 90 minutes. [inaudible conversations] [laughter] >> a sub command financial services and general government will come to order like to welcome chairwoman jessica and commissioner car. i appreciate both the participating in today's hearing to give members the subcommittee the opportunity to discuss federal committee this fiscal year 20125 budget requested. the budget request for the commission is more than $4,048,000,000. 15% higher than the original fiscal 2824 enacted a level much harder to increase the commission has historically requests are surprises to the commission failed to request the

funding for the secure trusted communication network program rip and replace as you don't rip and replace his important priority particular to ensure the communication infrastructure safe from foreign interference. conversely due to budget shortfalls repair or replace ply small providers invested money to remove i've got it and equipment. they do not funds to replace the commission has right on prior supplemental funding request instead of working proactively with congress on a clear path forward to address the shortfall. something similar could be said for the continuance of the affordable connectivity program. this administration the contagiousness of the program is a top priority are relying on the expectation of emergency spending measures that fall outside of her annual budget cast. however six ability no emergency request for the program can only be a temporary fix. the fcc is going to prioritize

bring a portable high-speed broadband to the country and nes to weigh the cost of doing so in shorts implemented in a targeted way to prevent unnecessary payments. this program is right for congressional oversight on the agency's inspector general sound the alarm on whether the service is going to those it is intended to help. the funding for the commission is fully offset by fees, congress is an important role in providing oversight for the commission's work that remains a focus on its core mission. the recent action by the commission congressional oversight is more important than ever. last month the commission voted along party lines to revive the obama era net neutrality policy. contrary to the fear mongering we heard years ago the internet is accessible. even more today than it was 2017 accessibility includes higher broadband speed increase competition not to mention continued expansion of telecommunication infrastructure in the country. my view this action the politicized policy it has a statutory authority. such actions are not what an independent agency such as this should be focused on with that

being said i'm in courage by the steps the commissions taken to expand the use of the 988 suicide hotline and hope to do with commission to ensure emergency calls include suicide and ventricle are transient ranking member for any -- for his opening remarks. >> correct thank you very much mr. chairman. welcome. chairman carr, and ms. rosenworcel. tough name. you'd never get it the first time. when the communication act of 1934 established the federal communications commission, and define the agency mission to ensure the american people have available at reasonable cost and without discrimination rapid and efficient national and worldwide

communication services. communication technology of course has changed dramatically in the last 90 years. fcc's work is even more important, increasingly important today than it was nine decades ago. and the 21st century access to economic opportunity clearly depends on access to high-speed internet. whether it's for education, or core healthcare the internet is no longer a luxury, it is a necessity. one could say that simply about the telephone for a longer period of time in our cell phones. nevertheless, still lack access to broadband. the fcc has done an excellent job tracking these gaps in internet coverage within its new national broadband map. america's digital divide is still too big but it would be much bigger were it not for the fcc. the fcc has done a terrific job

in my opinion to expand a portable high-speed broadband access throughout the country. especially in rural areas. although i would note wheat found in big cities they were deserts with no access fcc's affordable connectivity program has been central to that effort. as of last month 23 million or one and every six households in america were enrolled in the program saving 30 -- $75 a month on the internet costs. that includes 21036 households in maryland fifth district. which i'm proud to represent i've heard directly from my constituent republicans and democrats about how important the acp for positive impact of been on the lives of their citizens. just a few weeks ago when family down in st. mary's county explained to me how they had

struggled during the pandemic they cannot afford high-speed internet. their high school student had to go to a friends house just to attend class and keep up with their studies. parents had a drive to the local church parking lot just to get internet connection to telework. that all changed last year they were able to get their home connected, thanks to the acp. the family told me quote we do not know what we would have done without the efforts of our governor. house majority leader at last congress i was proud to help secure funding for the acp and the bipartisan info structure law. that funding however has run out. it is crucial that my colleagues across the aisle and on our side to take immediate action to extend this program. if we fail to do so 23 million americans will either see their internet costs go up or lose connection altogether. additionally we ought to work

with all of us together to fulfill the fcc fiscal year 2025 request of $448 million which of course is fully offset by fees. the fcc needs these resources help close the digital divide and carry out other key duties from protecting consumers to promoting fair competition in the industry. i think chair rosenworcel and commissioner carr for testifying today. i look forward to hearing not only about the programs we have talked about but such programs you believe hopefully are critically important to focus on her thank you very much mr. chairman. >> thank you mr. hoyer. chair rosenworcel without objection or full written testimonies entered into the record. as you summarize your testimony five minutes. thank you. >> chairman joyce, ranking member hoyer and members of the subcommittee p thank you for

inviting me too appear before you say to review the fcc fiscal year 2025 budget request. communication technologies power at 16 of the nation's economy and everyone needs access to them to have a fair shot at 21st century theft. as fcc has worked hard to develop a budget of just over $448 million. this will uphold the core values and our outlaws consumer protection, universal service, national security and public safety while keeping pace with evolving technology. although this is not my first year end before the subcommittee, it is my first presentation of the budget is chairwoman the first woman to permanently lead the agency under nation's history. let me highlight some of the work under my leadership. first, fcc built the affordable connectivity program the largest broadband affordability effort in our nations history and help 23 million households today get online and stay online congress provide the funds for this part of the bipartisan infrastructure

law rather than as part of the fcc annual budget. however, finding to give these households connected will be exhausted this month. i strongly support efforts to continue to fund this program so more families can get connected to the broadband they need to fully participate in modern life. second, agencies work to create the national broadband map the most accurate broadband map we've ever created will help us close the digital divide but for years fcc produced broadband maps that did not provide a clear picture of where the service is and is not all across the country. that change with the passage of the broadband data act and funding from congress. as a result new broadband map has been used to distribute billions for broadband deployment in the bipartisan info structure law. this is the map we need to keep updated so there is accountability for every federal dollar that is spent building this high-speed infrastructure that is why our budget request includes a 30 million-dollar

increase to its base support. third, fcc's do more than ever before to keep our communication secure. for the first time in history we have revoke the authorization to provide telecommunication services which will soon include broadband and not just voice service for chinese communication providers spread on top of this we have implemented secure and trusted communication network act artwork with care is to remove insecure equipment from their network. unfortunately face a 3.8 billion dollars shortfall to reimburse carriers for the full removal and disposal of this equipment. unless we receive additional appropriation, we can only provide 40 cents on the dollar to the skiers that have this equipment right now this threatens our national security and risks a shutdown of networks in rural areas. we are doubling down our efforts to stop scam robocalls and robotech using new technology and new tools. because this a problem that requires coordination we now have a memorandum of understanding with attorneys ats general from 49 states who are

working with us on this problem already we have made progress stopping auto warranty scams, student loan scams in a voice quoting scams but we need new authority from congress to stop this junk i'd be happy to share more of that. fifth, or doing our part to keep pace with the incurring importance of space-based communication thanks to your approval of art re- organization the agency bureau is up and running. fcc adopted new rules to streamline our satellite policies and new licensing scheme for commercial space launch is plus we have a new person in the world framework for the convergence of satellite and terrestrial communications. called the single network future. sixth, and implement the pirate out broadband licensed broadcasters with the budget you provided. last but not least we want to do or to support wireless communications of the future. but in this regard we face a real challenge. last year congress let the fcc authority to auction spectrum expire. we need this authority back up

her for three decorate these auctions help us distribute airwaves for wireless deployment and innovation. they also raise more than $233 billion for the nine states treasury. we need congress to restore this authority because failure to do so will risk our leadership in 5g, 6g, and beyond. i hope to work at the develop the physically or 2012 bill i'm sure the fcc can accomplish its statutory objective. on a personal note i want to thank you for rescheduling this hearing to a comment at my father's funeral but we may have differences of opinion but i'm grateful for your willingness first and foremost to acknowledge our shared humanity. >> thank you chairwoman rosenworcel. mr. car without objection full written testimony into the wreck with that in mind we ask you summarize your opening statement to five minutes. >> thank you. >> chairman joyce, ranking member hoyer, distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to

testify. this is my first time appearing before appropriations it is an honor to be here. for years i've had the privilege of working alongside fcc talented public servants and have welcome the chance to work with chairwoman rosenworcel to advance our shared priorities but we have worked together on telehealth initiatives, standing up 988 as a national crisis line, enhance competition and secured our networks. i also agree with the number of the telecom request the administration budget. i agree congress should restore the fcc auction authority by auctioning spectrum, the fcc not only enhances competition, we raise billions of dollars for reducing the national debt. i also agree congress should fully fund the rip and replace initiative. turning to the fcc's own budget request i was unable to support it. first, i do not support fcc's

request for a 14.8% increase in its budget. this increase marks a significant departure from agency precedent is a detail my testimony. second i do not support expanding fcc headcount indeed at the fcc hired up to the 1600 ftes it has requested it would represent the largest percentage increase in agency employees since the 1996 act. third i do not support fcc's request for a 5.1% increase first spectrum program as detailed in my testimony the biden administration is stalled out on spectrum auctions therefore i do not see a reason for increasing the fcc auction budget at this time. one example of the agency's pursuit of title ii regulations

for the internet. a decision to of president obama's former solicitors general stated will not survive or review. indeed, they said fcc pursuit of title ii represents a massive waste of government resources a loss opportunity to advance more pressing policy goals. i agree fcc should not spend any more resources is the budget to promote diversity, equity, and collusion as well as accessibility. it's not clear to meet with the sec means after mint de eyes a second highest priority. the budget does not add much clarity to promote it the fcc will use funds to identify and

eliminate historical systemic and structural barriers that perpetuate disadvantage or underserved individuals. it envisions quarterly dialogue sessions, regular webinars global awareness. tortoises damages spent on this initiative for the fcc should refocus its priorities around several core goals is a detail my testimony. finally, congress has been considering the future of the program. back in 2020. funded it with over $17 billion. i have encourage the fcc to implement acp by focusing on americans without any internet service. that is why the fcc determined primary goal of acp should be to close the digital divide by reducing the broadbent affordability gap. us is he agreed to prioritize outreach application then roll those without a connection. for its part the biden

administration highlights the fact 23 million households are enrolled in acp as a way to make in the case for the program success. the issue requires a more thorough analysis. 21.8% of acp beneficiaries previously lack internet. about 85% of acp generate fisheries today would still have internet service but without the program. even the data, i do not believe, congress should simply add more money to acp. instead it should focus on reform that means taking a fresh look at eligibility, targeting those that would otherwise lack service. rightsizing the effort and significantly increasing program safeguards. in closing out to thank you again for the opportunity to testify. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you commissioner.

five minutes exactly. >> we now begin our question each member will have five minutes for question and answers. when the timer turn scale you have one minute remaining first i will recognize myself. as i mentioned during my opening statement, i was interested but not surprised to see the agency requested no money within the budget proposal for trusted communication network program known as rip and replace the budget proposal back to supplemental appropriation requests to attempt to rely on emergency spending rather than be clear about the overall budget request for the fcc. chair, but how many small providers are you aware of that have invested dollars to remove equipment but it leaning on funds from congress to replace it? >> thank you for the question. how to point out from the start that i agree with you. getting funded for this program is essential that we need to take insecure equipment from

china out of our nations network. we have roughly 122 providers that have signed up for reimbursement. at present based on the congress gave us we can only allow 40 cents on the dollar for the replacement of that network equipment. it is not an hour budget because it's not part of our baseline is a one-time expenditure. the previous administration estimate we donate $1.9 billion to replace his equipment. but when i took over it we found there's a shortfall of just over $3 billion in part that shortfall is because congress change the criteria for who would be eligible to participate in this too substantially expanding it right now will need those monies to make sure these networks who generally serve rural communities continue to stay up and running and can remain secure and happy to work with you on any way to make that happen. >> you have any suggestions of how congress can or should close the funding gap to fulfill the

statutory obligation? >> i'm glad you asked. i do know at present there is conversation on the senate spectrum auction. that would help support the removal of that equipment provide the funding necessary to make sure that program can fully succeed. fair enough. i would like to go back to the other question my opening statement which none fcc voting party lines to revive the net neutrality reclassified broadband service as title ii telecommunications service rather than information service. he explained to me under what statutory authority is the fcc issued the net neutrality rules do you believe that complies with the major questions doctrine? >> we issued that rule are the key munication acts. the process and substantive rule

is nearly identical to what upheld by the d.c. circuit in 2016. i have confidence that it will be upheld. as consistent as a brand x from 2005. the work we did is wholly consistent to the law. >> you agree it carries economic and political would not be subjected? >> it is apparent the communication expert authority should have over a broad view of the fcc did with that rule was return oversight over broadband. at somewhere between silly and ridiculous the nations to medication authority should oversee long distance voice service. we change to this rule we made it clear it will oversee broadband for every consumer in this country making sure it's fast, open, fair. this is a policy 80% of the public support i do not think it

is out of step with what the public wants the history of communication policy with the law. >> fair enough. >> thank you very much. [inaudible] >> i need to have an automatic voice activated i forget to hit the button all the time. that sort of like not hitting the mute button we were committing other communication levels. cooks the fcc would probably rule. >> out have to talk to them about it, right? getting back to the issues here, first of all indicated he did not support the request for

greater ftes. would you explain why those are necessary? >> sure. want to point out federal communications commission is operating during my tenure with the lowest level of employees wehave for 20 years. we are already cut to the bone. when you stare at the future of communication i see tremendous growth with the health help of the subcommittee reorganize and create a space bureau. we have a strategic asset on our site assist with their leadership in the next generation of satellite. we need more engineers and to make sure that continues. as with the 60 jeep future it will be harder and harder to identify new ways to get spectrum at more creative more s who could help us do so. we think about the internet of things we are working on a cyber trust to make sure everyone trusts the devices that bring into their home. we are trying to build a standard so that we can get ahead of our counterparts in europe and elsewhere who are also trying to do them. along the way i think we need

more folks to help us with robocall enforcement and frankly i would challenge anyone on this committee to disagree with me on that one. >> the point being you have the lowest and 20 years complement ftes for. >> that is right. on what we have asked for is an increase that amount to 75 over a current headcount. they are for all of the initiatives to make sure our communication leadership grows. i think are vitally important to our national economic security. though the kind of investments we want to make we should be making right now. >> would it be reasonable it's been a very substantial increase the expansion of ways and means acp is a mention in my statement i was down we had three county commissioners republican county commissioners and the county which i represent.

relatively rural county. mr. carr has some discussion what that need it was. can you go into whether or not -- you said 20% i believe did not have of the ones we connected. but, does your map show how much they need it still exists? if we do not fund this what providers will do in terms of stopping connectivity? >> good question and a complex one. our maps generally speak to deployment which is a separate issue. another part of the digital divide is with the affordable connectivity program is all about which is making sure it's affordable for everyone everywhere in this country. the program we built that

congress' direction as the is thelargest broadband portabiy effort in our nations history. we have 20 to 8 million households that count on it right now to get online and stay online. what we know from our own economic surveys 68% of those households had zero connectivity before or inconsistent connectivity. we also know from independent surveys households in a rural america sign up for set higher rates than in urban america this is a program that helps everyone. he gets them online. strengthens communities it expands opportunities. we are doing so well with this program right now we can make adjustments some of them along the lines that commissioner carr suggested to improve it i believe every federal program can be improved we should not stop here or now. this is how we help close the digital divide i would certainly encourage congress to continue this program and funding it. in doing so soon as possible. >> thank you very much. thank you, mr. chairman. >> the chair recognizes.

correct thank you, mr. chairman. the chairwoman rosenworcel i too want to offer my condolences at the loss of your father. my father, who is 89 has been in the broadcast industry 70, that is 70 years. he had a heart operation yesterday. he and i are still connected. so i agree with you and your family on the loss of your father. in our condolences to you. to commissioner carr, one of my favorite historical persons is ronald reagan who said there is no better example of eternal life than a government program. was he talking acp?

>> thank you for the question. it is certainly possible that could apply here. i think the conversation here is one where there actually could be some common ground. for us to talk about this 23 million figure and say this program is a success does not do justice to the obligation for fiscal responsibility. again we have left it up on this program they're using acp benefit for a third internet connection for it again 85% of households on acp today again a program we set up is designed to get people online who could not afford it would still be connected to the internet without the program. >> i get calls from people who become dependent on it. i tried to explain to them the challenges we are having because these are the same people that would tell us 34 trillion-dollar debt is not a sustainable idea. and i tried to remind them this is how to get $34 trillion in

debt issue paper a lot of things that may be important to everyday americans and certainly they only use the internet, but maybe not necessarily so important as to commit this country to future fiscal conditions that we happen to be in today. i want to go back to the increase in the budget. i hear lots of times from government officials about how they are operating on personnel at levels that were at historical lows pray that sort of thing. is that a bad thing chairman rosenworcel? obviously technology, innovation, the ability for us to do other things, maybe it reduces the necessity. the notion of space is one of the drivers for additional

personnel. i like to know more about that. >> thank you for your commentary about my father but will keep your father in our thoughts. with the help of this subcommittee i reorganize the fcc. when i took over i realized we had thousands and thousands of satellite applications pending. we had many more earth stations proposed and at any point in history. and when you think about the strategic asset that is our commercial space industry it is extraordinary. we are leading the rest of the world. the first thing i wanted to do was look at art satellite policies and figure out how were going to fat the new space age has a new rule. the volume of activity for the agency right now is unprecedented. i want to make sure we process it thoroughly and they smart fashion trying to grow that aspect of the agency's work is about making sure the united states keeps his lead. i do want to acknowledge the bulk of the increase in our baseline.

i take what you say about employees, it is a fair point to the bulk of the increase in the baseline is to make sure we can continue the broadband funding map. congress gave us fiscal year 21 $98 million for several years the broadband funding map. all we can exhaust those funds is annualize them in the baseline brain the reason you should want to continue to support them is that congress on broadband deployment. the bipartisan infrastructure law and other covid error at legislation for the only way you hold the folks who took that money accountable for where they spent it is if you put on this map. we put on the map is not just you and me he looks at it as your constituent but they're going to look and see what was spent in their own backyard. i think that it's a tremendous tool and would make a mistake of you do not continue it for a >> think if it please the chairman i've got one more quick question to ask and then i got to excuse myself to another event.

my family's been the broadcast bids for a long time, my dad 70 years. he would absolutely hunt me down if i did not ask this question. we are losing our local press newspapers, now radio and some television. those were the mechanisms that connected people forever. what are you doing at the fcc to help us protect, thus not necessarily the right word but to enhance the ability for these local markets to continue to have this local representation in a radio and television? and then i will yield back too. >> that is a terrific question. local journalism and local news it matters that's how we get the information that we need to make decisions about our lives our community, and our country we cannot afford to lose local journalism it is a challenge when there are many more places to get facts than just the

newspaper on your doorstep in the television in the evening news. we try to look at how broadcasters can evolve their signals which might create new opportunities for them i set proposed scheme by broadcasters invest in their local communities get speedy at reauthorization of their licenses for i will be candid with you we are open to other ideas but your talk was very important we cannot forward to lose that local news. >> thank you so much just as a postscript one of america's most successful small-market radio properties and moberly, missouri where i grew up recently, within the last two weeks and management came in and fired all the programming staff, all the new staff, they are going too total syndication and music. that will create a void in that community unlike it has seen in a company that's been

representative there for all of these many decades. i think it is a serious issue that we need to have as members of congress. i will yield to the gentleman for his comments for. >> thank you for you are right. if you look back late 1990s and the two thousands we saw thousands of local newspapers shut her across the country but there's a lot of reasons for that but fcc did not help. that prohibited investment in local newspapers flash forward to today that is potentially the future for broadcasters if we do not cite to right size our regulations we cannot sit back and just observe the decline in local journalism come from the lack of investment potential in broadcasters. saying and deceit democracy dies in darkness. the fcc is the one turning out the light. if we do not fundamentally reform our approach to radio and tv broadcasters, their future could be the one of local radio. something valuable, there's nothing that beats light and

local. when you have to give broadcasters a chance to innovate and compete right not to compete against large technology companies that do not have anywhere near the regulation they are facing that broadcasters do. if you care about journalism, we need to care about a regulatory environment that will allow investment to succeed again a broadcasting. >> thank you. click still apology necessary. made a lot of comments i agree with. it's early at northeastern pennsylvania we have seen a consolidation that has been horrific. there will hollow out the ability to communicate locally. i could not agree more. thank you to both of our witnesses are being here. thank you for disagreeing with each other and saving us the trouble up here.

[laughter] chair rosenworcel i went to pick up on your theme of affordable connectivity program. the fcc budget and the president's budget request states that agency's number one strategic goal is to pursue one 100% broadband policy. i could not agree more and i'll tell you why. it may be one of those programs or take a long time but i've always likened it to the rural electrification program that if we did not do that in the 1930s there so the places the nine states left behind. left basically in the middle ages. this is one of the things we can all agree that government does well. it certainly did with electrification. i don't see much of a different at all with one 100% broadband.

when think they will always remember as we talk about rural places, folks i'm a democrat, they are not democrats in his rural places but i'm helping people who vote against me. and that is okay. this is an american effort. so want to make that point. chair rosenworcel you mentioned affordable connectivity program which provides affordable high-speed options for low income households across the country. my district in northeastern peia alone enrolled in that program. now i get calls, too. i think the chair mentioned. i get calls about people worried they're going to lose the service. thousands of messages we have had over the past few months from constituents who are nervous to afford adequate

internet service without the acp. some constituents are working families with children who rely on the internet folate to participate in their education. others are seniors on fixed incomes and need the telehealth services will talk about that a little later. simply to communicate with their families. i want to emphasize how important it is that we find a way to extend this a program to ensure that predictable and consistent funding remains available about the future. and let's remember this. i am an engineer and my dad passed away many years ago. but i think of him every day. a republican his whole life. i had a firm belief and pass on to my brothers and me but answers can come through engineering and through scientific and technological breakthroughs.

the answers that will make it these things one 100% connectivity peaceable and cheap. they are out there. stand by, this is what we have to promote stem education though the ones coming up with her answer but your testimony, chairwoman, the broadband map has been exhausted. how important is it for congress to provide the necessary funding to the fcc for the continued management and development of the national broadband map? >> thank you cobra congressman. it's a essential tool if you live in urban america, rural america or anything in between. because of the first time in our nations history property records, tax records, satellite images from flyovers and

identified every billable location in the united states. every six months we have carriers fill in and tells her they provide service and offer the public and state and local actors the opportunity to challenge that service. through a mix of data collection and crowd sourced information we are getting granular information where service is and is not. that's important for everyone in congress. because when you spend money to send it to someplace you've got to make sure there is follow-through. this map is your tool for accountability. >> thank you for that, more later. i yield back mr. chair. >> thank you i'm sure we cannot wait. >> thank you sir, thank you, mr. chairman. you have less people than 20 years ago and a small budget. you qualify as a republic going to like us to print you a ticket? that's the kind of people we need. that is what we are focused on

smaller budgets, less a people, and government. >> i think doing things efficiently should be an active bipartisan consensus. >> i agree with you. i appreciate you listen to my humor. [laughter] i live in mobile, alabama at about three or 30,000 people. it's not a rural county. and i do not have broadband i cannot get broadband. the telephone that i used to have the telephone lines quit carrying it out that way. thank god for elon musk. it was because of him i was able to protect my family with the security system that i paid for. actually able to check my e-mails. i am very proud of the private sector what people like elon musk. we focus on elon musk but this country is full of people like this. this country is built by people like this. they were dreamers that do not

understand limits. government, we have limits to everything but that's all we are about is limiting people to do what we think what is best. i think we are spending in the broadband, which we have to be your not going to hear me talk negative about it. i think in 20 years will be totally outdated for all these lines we are focused on the wireless is the direction we should go we should be spending more money in that direction. and getting people to the table to tells what his dreams are and his visions are in people like him. we have to work with what we have to work with have a governor and the state of alabama she's done an incredible job of getting a money out getting internet to the small rural areas. i am that main trunk line that tightens alabama to mississippi it runs across my front yard. but they won't drop it for my house. now i am not blaming them i am assuming there is a regulation there because they regulated it

as a business, i do not know this but that is their business model, god bless them i do not want to enforce anything else on the it's frustrating to me when i'm this to appear for a week weeknight my wife is back there by yourself. anyway, thank you. question to you isn't it nice to have a simple last name? >> yes, sir program student how bad this gets butchered. [laughter] everyone keeps waiting for me too give them my last name. i know you probably share the pain two. last month fcc considered a proposed rule to require the implementation for a wireless for wireless callstudent 911 sus lifeline to ensure calls are routed based on a geographic location of the origin of the calls rather than area code and exchange associated with the wireless phone. when should we expect the fcc to take the next step? when should we expect that put

in action? >> thank you for the question. i will defer the chair on timing she brings order so but i was in this initiative she has pushed forward as a really good one this idea we can move call 2988 in the local community makes a lot of sense i've heard about this in sioux falls, south dakota the importance of making sure the call from south dakota goes to someone who lives there as opposed to the east coast i deferred the chair on timing but this is want to fully support. >> yes. getting national suicide and crisis hotline more localized as a bipartisan initiative. when someone endows those three digits, when they are in crisis we want to make sure they get local help. right now it's based on your area code. if you are from mobile, alabama and he moved to los angeles and he is out 988 you are so going to be connected at this moment in mobile, alabama but maybe you need resources in california. we can fix this with geolocation proposal which i hope to have

done this year but we are going to need our college of the department upon security and specifically substance abuse and mental health services administration to work with us to really get it done provokes please do we are losing 17 veterans a day to suicide. it's rampant and there's no reason for that. this could play a very vital role in helping with that big. >> listen if we have problems we will come to you and ask for your help i. >> think it mr. chairman i yield back. >> thank you, chair will recognize. >> think it mr. chairman think you both for being here. chairperson rosenworcel, let me also talk about the affordable connectivity program. we get hit a lot from constituents, town halls i did a bunch of them that comes up virtually every town hall people talking about it really doesn't matter what the cost. i live in a rural town i think we are 870 are in our getting up there. we first caught about five years

ago broadband for that i paid for a verizon satellite that i got a deal the half-price deal of the $300 a month for 80 measured gigs of broadband. i'll call my husband that last week of a month telling them to quit watching netflix because every hour of netflix was about two and a half. long story short, we benefit this in wisconsin 40000 households one of every six of benefit from this program. it does come up a lot. thirty-eight dollars is a lot of money. think about the supplemental nutrition program is barely over that for a weeks worth of groceries to help keep kids out of poverty pizza 30 bucks doesn't matter. and in a rural area epic twice as much for the broadband in wisconsin and it rural area than i do here in d.c. at the place i live in. so, having said all of that this is it really, really valuable program.

my colleague signed onto legislation to renew it yet we cannot get a vote. part of that is our problem. we've got lots of them these days. but, what are you looking at it this doesn't happen? what can you do to try to help look at replacing some think that would help my constituents? >> i appreciate your support for this program and fact it's 16 households not just in your district in wisconsin nationwide that rely on this. it's an important program for blue america and rent america, everyone relies on it. if it goes away we do have real limits we have a universal service fund with a program that supports households at about $9 a month. that's in much more limited subset of households that can be supportive with this program because there's different qualifications under the law. it is a much more limited set of carriers that are allowed to provide the service. it feels to meet we have come so far. all of a sudden kids sitting outside of the fast food

restaurant and it library parking lots during the worst days of covid. we do not have to go back to that. this is a program that helps prevent that. appeals to me that we would make a mistake if we stop now we've come too far. >> again whatever we can try to do we have a majority to be grateful move that forward. let me ask you a quick robocop gangs royal tiger ai i'm not going to be one of the members it shows my stupidity on technology but tell us a little bit about it? is something your agency is working on. >> listened were going to do everything we can to stop at robocalls i would be candid with you that our primary authority is from 1991. we need an update. with that being said one of the things i focus on is building partnerships. we are going to learn more from people what's happening in their backyard that we are here to washington which got 49 state attorney general's working with us on a robocall matters but then asserted who to broad.

other countries that are similarly finding their phones are under assault what we decided to do is be identified a repeat violator share that with the state counterparts and international counterparts that's what the royal tiger initiative is about as a company that operates out of india, the united states, united arab and the uk. this is not just a problem or facing domestically it is global but we're going to be the first to start outing who is really behind some these junk calls but. >> great, thank you for this efforts but we get a lot of requests on it. i don't get answer regarding the fairness doctrine a lot of people feel its detrimental tort news media as well. can you talk about that question is there any chance you ever consider bringing something back? >> is a policy for the 1940s. i was not around.

but as best i understand that that's we had a very limited news medium there was the newspaper and a handful of broadcast stations using public airwaves. since that time we have public airwaves. internet, and the one thing i would say having the fcc make decisions was correct and was not correct it's fair and not isn't almost role for government as media environment. i wish i could make it simpler. if you trust me too go ahead and take that trust my successor shoot. i would say the best way we can serve the public is to make sure we hold accountable as public citizens all those folks are putting facts and information out there. so we can ferret out find the true spirit thank you i go back mr. chair. >> think of the chair will not recognize certain questions he may have.

>> think it mr. chairman. thank you folks are being here today. we talk about communications in general, the bold new world for instance rip and replace it program other than traditional fcc stuff. can you give me an idea? i am afraid. not that there no aspersions in this. i am afraid it will get down rip and replace will beget that funded them to get done with that there are things like satellite, vulnerability, all of that other sort of stuff. my concern as we sit through, and it's not just you guys but other hearings and then you talk with sisera and those folks and you are like are you guys coordinating or are you on your

own mission? on the security of communication, broadband, whatever that stuff is and granted you should not be there yet. that's gotta be part of everything. my concern is i think there are a lot of federal assets that are in the space. i feel like there's a bunch of silos. but, it give me an idea of what you are doing so that when god forbid, something happens to one of the biggest satellites that does whatever or a small satellite or you're done with rip and replace, people are hacking into whatever. give me a feeling about cyber security and the fcc mission? >> first about your right to be concerned about all those things. i share every concern you just described. we all should break communication is input into every aspect of our economy. it's essential for the national security. absolutely.

when i took over i started up something that had not not been going for years and years of the cyber form for independent regulators. i got 39 different agencies and i lead them to come together to see if we can harmonize our policies will have different stature to authorities will have silos we have different goals. we are trying to cope with common language and to make sure we are all working together. i also haven't working on our communication security reliability interoperability counsel for the first time i brought them right into work with us. we started to identify problems with border gateway protocol and internet services, that was done in conjunction with the department of homeland security. so behind-the-scenes have more cooperative relations on these issues than ever before but that is ultimately because the problem is bigger than ever before. frankly we've worked a lot in a bipartisan way on communication security issues. think commissioner carr would agree with that we have identified our take away the authorization of certain chinese

companies. we set up new equipment certification system as you mentioned we have rip and replace mirror work with national security authorities to develop a covered list of insecure equipment. just this month we have at the request of commissioner karl working on a policy to revisit the old laboratories and certification about its views for radiofrequency equipment and to make sure those two are secure. along the way we've set up a new policy on the internet of things working on cybersecurity that comes in the national institute of standards and technology. there is more cooperative work going on but you should continue to demand it because these problems are bigger than before. >> thanks a congressman for the question i would agree. as a government, as a country we had to play catch-up started the last couple of years and it comes to the threat posed by the communist party of china it would take an action at the fcc at the device layer looking at

gte. with the carrier level tied up mobile and china telecom for as a country we have the application level including tiktok. this is no silver bullet out there but we are putting processes in place more accurate identifying these threats earlier we've been looking at the last couple of years. the future's going to eat much more secure and prepared the last couple of years. >> absolutely. >> thank you very much. the chart will not recognize mr. >> let me thank the witnesses for your testimony let me thank the witnesses for your testimony this morning. chair rosenworcel i'm in a rural district as a large amount of

households that has unserved or underserved by broadband which will be eligible for program funding. i appreciate the fcc's action in december to provide much needed clarity around polar attachments strengthening the process which accelerated resolution of the disputes. as you know this will not succeed to attach new wires onto the polls and unserved areas. access to the polls and potential barrier connecting unserved americans. now that the record is close of the fcc from december can you commit to acting as quickly as possible and the pole attachment access complaint on the commission accelerated docket for fast resolution?

>> well, first of all the slot thisletter for roderick graham broadband. not many talk to people about polls but it's really important because the infrastructure on the ground that actually allows for real deployment. when they all went to make sure you are aware of is half the states regulate polls on their own it. fcc only oversees states that do not choose to regulate polls throughout the top of my head i do not remember was going on in georgia. be happy to follow up on you on that point is clear to know if you streamline these processes and move faster because we do not want access to polls to be an impediment to broadband. we are look at the record from the rulemaking you described a moment ago. once we do a full review would be happy to update you about what the next steps are. >> thank you. and in my district the second district of georgia the savings (provided by the affordable connectivity program is a

phenomenal combined with the bipartisan for structure law. it has had a really significant impact. as of january 97000 households have reduced their broadband coughed saving almost $52 million annually. there is an additional 29000 households that are eligible and have not taken advantage of it. so it is a great program. we have got to continue it. i am hoping this committee and congress will take the necessary steps to continue weights. i certainly appreciate the weight you are going about implementing it. i look forward to getting it

done. i yield back. >> think it mr. bishop would recognize ms. torres for any questions she may have. >> thank you chairman chairman congratulations on all of the hearings you have been able to accomplish this week. thank you chairwoman for being here and to both of you for being here. i want to extend my gratitude for the rulemaking to require carriers to route calls to the 988 suicide and behavioral health crisis line. to the call center closest to where they are versus utilizing the area code. i cannot imagine if i needed to call 988 in washington d.c. and they

4911 specifically from south and they run out of minutes that continues to be an issue. this was an issue when i took my call in november of 2008 and continues to be an issue today with some carriers. so there's a lot of work that still needs to be done to require that and the 911 system as you know has greatly evolved from telephone operators that worked on a switch and transferred calls from one to switch to another. there's about 240 million calls that are made annually and i remain very concerned about the fact that the call centers

haven't received the needed updates and can become a national security threat leaving without the opportunity to dial a three digit number during a very vulnerable time in their lives. and across the country they are facing outages, delay response times and cybersecurity risks. recently in my home state a center that had not yet transitioned to 911, technologies were putting at risk the lives of many americans. can you share the impact of operating the nation's 911 system? >> i know you know these issues extraordinarily well and i appreciate your leadership on them. as the saying goes you might only call once but it will be the most important call you ever make. you need that call to go through and you want the people on the other end of the line to know where you are when you are

asking for help. upgrading the systems is complex when we have 6,000 answering points across the country they are funded generally locally and they were built for the analog telephone when there was a jack in the wall and a curly cord attached. most of the calls come from wireless phones, so we have to figure out how those calls come in and they are consistently identified where people are and also the centers themselves don't have outages. we've updated policies from the location-based routing to where the individual is using a wireless phone calling and we've also increased the obligations of carriers to report on local outages to their local 911 call centers. there is more we can do as we move to next generation 911 and that includes something you've cared about deeply which is making sure the operators get an upgrade from the office of management and budget so they are classified as public safety

professionals. they deserve that classification and i think that is important to continue to push for. >> thank you for that feedback and thank you, chairwoman. i know that both of you have expressed your support to move this issue forward. for my colleagues until the dispatchers are classified as properly as first responders, we are never going to be able to provide them with the grant opportunities they need in order to recruit, train and improve their system. the act is a bipartisan bill that has very, very strong support from both sides of the aisle, and i can't wait to have a hearing on this issue and on the issue of why it's so

important to ensure the 911 call location is delivered i want to take just a couple of seconds to share with you a call we took out our 911 center. i didn't personally take this call that we teach our children to dial 911. this child was being abused theo the dispatcher could hear the child being screamed at and called out by name, slapped, kicked, all of that and all we could do was listen to his cries for help. we think it was a he, we don't know. there was nothing we could do because the location hadn't been transferred from where he was because the telephone number, the cell phone that he was using ran out of minutes so the only thing we can do is to the crime

happening to this child. that's why we cannot take any excuses from the telephone companies to improve their systems and to ensure that they are delivering that location information to the centers and again i just want to thank you both, and i yield back. >> thanks for your patience. thank you for both coming to testify before the committee about the request for the fiscal year. the american communications networks plays an important role so preserving the integrity should be enough. we know the foreign adversary's russia, china they continue to undermine the security of the networks through compromised equipment threatening reliability and putting

america's personal data and safety at risk. earlier this year they sent a letter to the fcc raising concerns that americans may be utilized russian and chinese signals in violation of the fcc rules and your office did reply saying you had open investigation into this matter so what is the national security risk posed by the device manufacturers utilizing this from russia and the prc? >> the signals are important to modern life and the precision information about timing and location and almost every aspect of the economy. first thing that is important as isthe united states and its spae force continue to put the new version in the skies and the devices connect with and the more accurate that information. we have during the last administration approved the use

of the systems so that is something that has been approved and at the same time we had individuals the letter suggested telling us some of our devices may be collecting information from russian satellite systems. we started an investigation to understand the mechanics of that and how it works. needless to say, there are opportunities for surveillance and opportunities for malicious activity associated so we take that seriously but it's part of the reason we have an investigation and we will get to the bottom of what's happening. >> it is my understanding that when we talk about the information the chinese gps system allows the data to flow back and forth with chinese satellites so hearing that door opening an investigation here is very promising and i think that is a good follow-up to the work that congress has done by passing the networks act to support the removal of the compromised equipment that has been manufactured and i

appreciate your continued efforts to ensure the compromised equipment is removed from the networks. itemizes the authority to have the ability to add to the list to the department of commerce, very specific about who can do that. the fcc cannot do it on its own so one of the practices i've established as any member of congress or anyone comes about a considerable piece of equipment

or vendor, we write a letter to the agency to let them know immediately. >> is that concerning that there somebody interested -- that's been a productive way to ensure we start the conversation and we are transparent about what might be of concern. i would love if the process moved faster, and i'm regularly telling the national security authorities that they can speed up the review of the request. >> is it what you would consider response fromthe agency's? >> i think as a provisional and a citizen i appreciate the care and keep us in the loop that there's any pressure we are happy to follow through. it's my intention a second question i will yield my time for any questions you might

have. have. >> a brief follow-up. if somebody is part of an attack wanting to shut down 911 in the area that they are happening, tell us about our 911 technology right now to where is it vulnerable to where it's like one of the things we are going to do to debilitate an area is mess with the water and by the way, we are going to demo 911 if you will and i don't know if that is the fact that this if somebody's trying purposefully. >> it is essential for all of us to understand that everything has vulnerabilities. >> i understand it's vulnerable. i want to understand the plan to make it less vulnerable. >> the challenge especially with 911 is that it's been a locally funded exercise, so we have some states that have invested a lot, some states that have invested less, some states that have many

public safety answering point into some states that have very few of them, but in nearly all states, we have an effort to make sure that there is 911 redundancy, so if a line goes down there is an alternative route for the traffic or an alternative public safety answering point to take the calls. the best evidence we see of that is in the events like hurricanes and disasters where you learn about the call center that goes down but then you learn how they've taken on that traffic and that is regular practice in the communities around the country. >> to your knowledge or they involved in any of this redundancy? we are talking about malicious actor's. >> the advisory, and we certainly work on the security reliability interoperability council that has a 911 working group. >> and in the next few days can you let us know how to get a

hold of the working group so we can ask them? >> we should point out we upgraded to the policy to make sure that there were outage obligations on the carriers to make sure the 911 call centers are among the first who were notified about any in the systems. >> mat on the chairwoman, i respected that. respect that. i'm talking about purposeful bad actor stuff as far as pulling down important infrastructure that may, has anybody assessed that or is it an area that needs work? >> i do think it is in an area that needs work because there hasn't been a national program, instead there's been a state and locally funded once we have inconsistencies around the country that we should be addressing. >> thank you. let me yield. fine by me.

thank you to the panel. we were talking about the rural areas before and i have an abiding interest in that because three of my five counties in my congressional district are quite rural, pike, wayne and munro in northeastern pennsylvania, and it's about healthcare. it's critical the healthcare needs. of those areas as it is true for many other areas in the country they can be healthcare deserts and that's when something like telehealth becomes more and more important. i know that the patients would benefit greatly from telehealth, but as we all know it relies on broadband, reliable broadband. i know you are well aware of this. for years the rural healthcare program has helped sustain the

services and some of the hardest to reach places in the country fcc has continued to anticipate the critical problems faced every day by americans and i want to commend you on your excellent efforts in that area. the rural healthcare program helps make medicare less accessible. to the communities by offering discounted broadband rates to the rural healthcare providers and once connected the providers like those in my district can better treat patients that may lack access to in person care. what are the biggest barriers that exist in adoption and implementation in telehealth and what steps is the fcc taking to incentivize healthcare providers to participate in the rural healthcare program?

>> telemedicine is pretty incredible. you can bring it to places that are far-flung in this country and we saw early efforts to do that in the pandemic and they've outlived the pandemic. people are getting accustomed and it makes them more likely to check in with their healthcare professionals. there are three big challenges when it comes to telemedicine the first you mentioned is broadband. the second coming and we don't have authority over this is making sure insurance reimbursement because then they are less likely to offer this service and the third problem is making sure doctors and healthcare professionals that are authorized by one state to provide service in another state state-by-state authorization.

with respect to be in creative about this, let me acknowledge to start exploring the more creative ways we can use this technology. >> and i'd like to hear from you. >> thank you so much. you are right that when technology today people get high-quality affordable care directly where they live including in communities that have primary specialists that have gone out of business i first learned about this in a small town in mississippi where i met a woman that got diagnosed with diabetes she wasn't seeing much progress using traditional care methods but she was sent home with a glucose monitor and the ipad would give her feedback about how to exercise based on that specific data and she saw tremendous improvement. we took that idea and made it

nationwide to the pilot program and stood it up exactly as the chair has said she's continued to build on those efforts and added a lot of care into that program that has been very helpful. >> thank you. mr. chairman i yield back. thank you. the chair will recognize mr. carl. >> thank you. fun fact. where is the first call? >> haleyville alabama i visited for the 50th anniversary. >> i know the town is proud of it. it's a wonderful thing. it's like a reminder of the big ideas in the united states they sometimes start in small places. anyway, sorry i got excited about it.

let's look at the rural broadband. in the past year we've adopted rules governing broadband labels and digital discrimination and i think the right word we are using their with data breaches and you are considering more rules in these areas and others like outage reporting. are you aware of how these new rules individually and also in combination will affect the smaller providers? >> we think about that all the time. >> the fact small companies with 20, 30, 50 employees would they be able to keep up with these new rules and regulations?

>> thank you very much. i will yield back my time. >> first of all, we have these voice cloning scams you refer to them briefly. obviously that falls some degree in your jurisdiction and enforcement of jurisdictions. what i want to know and if either of you have observations or experience, how is law enforcement and enforcing these in terms of effectively preventing people from doing this because they know that they will be prosecuted? >> that is a great question. they become cheap and that is a dangerous thing because people are going to use it more and more for different calls and scams and as you know in new hampshire we had a someone using

it in advance of an election. here's good news we worked with the carriers to identify exactly who was carrying the traffic and who was responsible for that call it because i set up a memorandum of understanding within two weeks we identified where it was coming from and who to hold responsible and my colleagues along the way declared ruling to make sure it was a violation of the telephone consumer protection act so we put out a call loud and clear if you use this we are going to make sure the state attorney general and the fcc comes after you and any carrier and we are going to shut them off. >> you have the authority. were you able to prosecute the individual? >> the attorney general because we made the decision of this was

a violation of the consumer protection act they can go after that individual now. it's why partnerships are so important. the state attorneys general are better positioned to go after the scam and we are better positioned to shut down the traffic. working together we can take on these things that we are always open to new authorities. it is a problem that doesn't go away and anytime we develop a new solution they are created td find a new way forward. >> this goes back to my issue as the new technology and challenges arise and we've all talked about that and a positive way the reason, first of all to join in congratulating and thanking the chairman for setting a number of hearings up that i found to be very helpful i want to thank you for that.

secondly, i think every member of the committee has to be very impressed with the knowledge and the clarity of answers the witnesses have given. this was one of the least contentious hearings in which i participated and i think it's because of the collaborative nature of the two of you and the fcc that i know is not always there. very, very impressive presentation by both of you. this ought to give us the confidence that the challenges we face are being dealt with by very competent people concerned about the best interest of the american people and the security of the country so i think you and the witnesses. this has been a good hearing. >> i assure you.

>> i don't need any assurance. we deal with that on a regular basis as you may have noticed. >> to acknowledge what has been exhibited here it's very important and i also have to acknowledge my friend because we didn't get appreciation for how important his questions were. >> with that, all good things must come to a close. there may be some members who would like to submit questions and i would ask that any be done so within the next seven days if you have 15 business days to get back to us. i'd like to thank you both for

being here and we look forward to working with you in the 25 budget. with that, the hearing is concluded. >> [inaudible conversations]

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