happening and desperation is in and the bas dand more radicaliso get engaged themselves we are going to see even worse things. we cannot ignore the on any side just go wors as you can, that is my plea. >> thank you mario, mike will wrap it up there. [applause] [background noises] for now from the same conference former u.s.mbsador to russia jon sullivan. text by the ongoing war in

ukraine russian president vladimir putin's motives for the invasion. this is about half an hour. [backgroundare right, it is my t pleasure to wel stage my former boss sullivan. jon has done just about every job you can do i the executive branch. let's see he has been at for cabinet age, counselor to the assistant attorney general of the office of leg counsel. deputy general counsel at the

department ofe defense. general counsel and deputy secretary at the department of commerce. deputy secretary at the department of and his last gig he was our man in moscow. he was ambassador to the russian federation. jon has, asis resume might suggest, has been a public servant for really his whole life. he has done a great j part he is responsible for me getting involved in public f. >> i am the guy you have the blame. sorry. >> he showed me what it was to manage other people pretty showed me what it t lead other people and especially lawyers.

it is my pleasure telim heree stch it up rather than have jon stand at the podium and give a lecture we thought we mights more of a conversation since as you can see we actually know each other and like each other. >> at least s some other ones. with that, jon weer talking you've been involved with our nla decades. >> since i became a lawyer i was in a law school and 84 election i first got in involved with the lawyer in the 88 campaign bush/caucus. which work for president bush 41 i was telling david i remember going tonventt a

convention in houston. an the featured speaker so it is not that well known former assistant attorney who went on to do bigger and better things. i've been in andd for a while and proud to be here with my dear friend and i am proud to take creditor getting -- hiring david for his first job in government. >> absolutely. you may haveathered from the different positions in whi served john's first gigs were legal nature. he finished out, crossed ove t e to deliver not all qte as successful in doing as jon did.

f non- legal jobs. o russia. but jon, harken back i you will to the legal gigs what did you see being on the front linesrankly. you were at justice commerce, when you were in your legal rules h did you grapple with a lot of the issues that we are seeing with the executive branch today? >> i recall not just forelf but virtually everyone i work with. overwriting ctm rule of law. law is not of a policymaker but someone who has a power today. embedded in our constitution, our statutesse by congress.

duly promulgated regulations properly promulgated by agencies. i served only for republican presidents until most recently. president biden kept me in moscow was proud to state representing the united states in that post. the commitment to the rule of wistiuishes us from the prc and the russians on others. david and i participated what we he commerce department something called the u.s./china legal exchange. and never cease to amaze me how mas chinese were what i would describe our legal system. and how a district court judge in a washing could compel the president of the united states to do something. a we called itk then. the global war on

it is what distinguishes us from the prc. the one thing that prc no chinese leader, no chinese communisea abide as an independentry. in china and that prc i should say, the party is vanguard.ty the party leads and everything else flows from that are no independent judges. there is no independent rule of law. and i contrast that with my experience in rsi where putin and his regime is what he saw as ambassador and i might mention this to david. it was to borrow a russian metaphor a legal system that looketem. thee judges or the most beautife ver seen. they have gold medallions o

their collars and are cinched at the top with as gold chain. they are in majestic court room. i remember going t the court room in which paul whelen wrongfully detained for four and a half years in russia. in that courtroom occasionallyed which washi very unusual because he was beingsecuted and was ultimately convicted ofim pi so he was tried in a secret court with secret evinc he never saw. but, i got into the courtroom occasionally to speak with him before the court session st wasg cell. it wasas beautiful. it might has well have been fully square and new york i southern district of new york or any other u.s. district court around the country.

but, it is all for show. the decisions are made to administrative judges who then communicate wter judge oversee the l court were particularly sensitive trial is ongoing. who then gives instructions tot. i see this not because i was allowed to see paul's trial other i was allowed to sit in court sessions for trevor. i was getti translation exit dopeak russian. awo difficult legal question wod come up. the judge would clearly, you co see on the judges face what i do? e a break and go

back. i know it was not apparent from anyone who is just watching the. hedg would call the administrate judge, what do i do about this? s evidence? he would get his instruction to come back denied. but as if i needed it and i didn't, a real respect and comfort in our judicial scent and our rule of law w sakers before, including the most recent panel gives ust pause. if we lose we have to echo senator chris we have lost ourt. if we do not have an independent judiciary that we as americans rule on cases as a matter of law

and not a policyot choice then e have lost our republic. since in 80s with president reagan going the failed nomination to but then judge bork eminentlyied ane justice on the supremehe court a long time ago. i bear some scars from some of that history. but that is a long-winded answer and i apologize. for this group i have seen what its not just americans. former military or have security clearanc you make the un- or wise decision to visit for example thi i happened many

times a person you have met online as a potential friend. this h happens the likelihood you are going to be accused crime is not insignificant. once you a in that system and you are an american takes over there is tng you can do. i s a case after case with the wrongfully detained americans it cannot matter what the evidence is you are guilty. will b f sentenced based on the fact you are an american. the fsb and the russian government can explo get something they want from the united states. i will give example on how important the rule of law trevor reads cases prosecuted for assaulting two officers. trevor reed is a tough guy

the labor camp in more dough via he was incarcerated and where i. tough guy. but about this be even shorter i. two police officers he was alleged to have assaulted look like they could have played in the nfl on the defensivee a good nfl team. the evidence once he technical preposterous thathe the judge, the judge laughed out loud multiple times.his father joey read thatd family from texas are constituents of senatoror cruz.

he spent his entire life savinge for his son's trout which was a court in moscow. joey would come back to the embassy after say is looking good the judge is just cracked up. laughing at how ridiculous the there was no case. b trwad was found guilty and sentenced to nine just in a labor camp where he almost he was exposed with aids and tuberculosis are rampant t russian system he was to a cuban inmate who died of tuberculosis. tuberculosis untreated even at a young healthy former marine is usually fatal. that is the way the russians treated we have got to do everything we can to make s ours to protecticiary so we have

ourselves. quickset is exactly thisostly linked to the independent judiciary and the rule ofhe law. the other thing i remember our chinese friends from the state council legislative affairs office i compute for them.em at some level i understand why given the communist party rule in china. republican our country has a two-party i think you heard senator cruzz talk about you have heaers talk about efforts to effectively make this a single y country. it d not compute to them wait a second period i think we are doing this in president bush's second term. we knew it president bush was tno be president 2009, 2010 he was out

.he was term limited. but at the time we did know who is going to be president. that could have been at. democr. that did not compute to they would be a hand over of power. there is a loyal opposition in china, or russiare's both that does not compute as well. quick's in china i use the term loosely by by decree of the chinese communist party. the party is the state come is the country. there oer parties there is no other source of wisdom, law, punishment. the party decides when someone d arime. the first sign someone has committed a crime is going to be prosecuted and imprisoned if thi

decision is made t e person from the chinese communist party. that person n longer a comrade. after that decision is made that osecutor for the over to the administrative application of whatever punishm decides isia appropriate. that is the system in china. putin has developed a similarem system although he pretendsit ie use in russia. it is a managed democracy. what t m is it is been gradual over the last 20 plus years since he was first ministy shortly thereafter, president for the russian reelected. i will not bore youe is

maintain and consolidate a power of. through what is known as unitedo the opposition. some oth techniques are clever russians to have a great sense i love the russian peopley have a great sense of humor. one of their techniques that that was worthy of the daley mach icago if united russia isni a candidate in a particular district hundreds of members of the s which is their house and the federation

council is the equivalent of their centage. senate.if someone is running dua there is a credibleonen that's running against putin person. the kremlin will then put find and put up as a third party candidate a dlg literally the person looks identical tot. if the name is close they will make it closer and if it's not close they will change his name. if i am jon sullivan for let's make russia great again russia they are going to find an ke a me and if his name isooks patrick murphy changes to jon

if you've ever seen the expression managed democracy could make the daley family proud a chicago. it goes beyond that to literally murdering the opposition judicial killings, imprisonments and so forth. it is things serving abroad with the pride i had and still have inur country and i hopepe i have and our country fr the future which i important. which is why i ws in 80 and gets reelected in 84 is hope. hope, confidence and our future and country. whic side in my opinion for a long time h avebeenav embarrassed by our co. i am not.

sometimes. it's faith in our institutions were under attack because should me if would like to come and join you here today i said heck yes. but only to have a long history but your mission is s important to protect our institutions the country that we have and be

down in pretty bleak with what is today. quick's or jon, i do wt to steal too much thunder from your book which is summer. midnight and moscow. but, you are there and puthe tr. and russia invaded ukraine. can you tell us what that was likeli? and what you went through?tne ld russia from the beginning of oup as we call it was so bad. when the war started we were already smothered by fsb, harassed, it is a difficult posr

the unitedlo states. so, things really did not change our lives but i was convinced and statements months beforehe started. i'm not saying this to pat myself on the back has a prognosticator but i did he is going to do was going to wage an aggressive or against ukraine. he is not recognized as an independent i knew he was going to do it and i wa s publicly. in a particularly amen moscow members. >> for those who do not do the

international thing american chamber of commerce. quick's affiliate with the chamber here in the united states loosely, most of the mark. they said don't scare people. for him to a large war on the european continent is not. now he wants to threa i because he wants to squeeze the united states and the biden administration to get concessions and what he wants. he has to mak like he's going to do it.but the tanks wie border. that would be insane. he's really going to do it. he gave a press conference and i said the russians were negotiating with u with the united states. this is a weeks before the in negotiating with us and they are a negotiating tactic a they

walk in, they put a gun on the table and i knew they were touché i am not a great prognosticator i had nopr faith the ukrainians were going to be able to exist resist i thought it would be something similar to what happened in august of 1968 it was principally the warsaw pact they were not that many red army troops but brash enough, the soviet union os warsaw pact to invade czechoslovakia. they seizedgu the so-called prague spring check leader, put him on a plane. taken to, talk to him. and the expression they used back in the day was this was fraternal assistance to czechoslovakia.

as fellow socialist nations buty operation. back then it was fraternal assistance. he was lucky to survive. they put them on a plane after a little reeducation of moscow. he got back on a plane czechosl. g sent to be a forest ranger in slovakia and t l live. zelensky should be so the russians are going to come in. they plans, their estimates were 10ays -- 14 days they would have w seized major combatopera. senior officers going into ukraine were told to bring their dressfotory parades.

they said there is a famous image i don't do some of you may have seen this youtube video, the ukrainians said you're not going to invade our country. even the russian speaking ukrainians who have a sent russia said you cannot don this. the example is there's a you video of a woman i'm going to of the village the russian c troops were coming north out of crimea. the paratroopers or walk into the middle of her village. i will sanitize the language. she walks up paratroopers with their assault

rifles walking down the main street of village. yostsrend she picks up aistful of sunflowers. the sunflower is the national raower of ukraine. she sticks it in the f this russian paratrooper and says put this in your pocke s be something good will come out of you.[laughter] you multiply that by 45 million ukrainians. as a huge mistake putin because he was misled by the fsy of ukrainians -- frequentlyhey would not support the special military operation but they misinformed. and he failed. he will never surrender the goals of the operation we can debate, i'm happy to

continue support for the ve ukraine. there is no debate in my onion about the government and the person of putin and his government. but they have done whathey will continue to do which is to wage an aggressive war defined by the international rymilitary tribunal in nuremberg in 1946. which, by the way she committing that crime. the crime against peace. continue to wage that were as he is doing now which they tried in 2022 and they failed but in fact they were driven out of the ent area in the summer and early fall of 22. he is not going to quit. there is no this war will continue until he achieves his two goals in his tw are to d k

fight ukraine. and to demilitarized ukraine. which means replace the government, install a government that subject to control by moscow. or at a minimum for those of you who are aware of what has what ishappened in belarus the government admits belarus and russia to form what they call uniontate putin wants ukraine to become part of tha three state rsia belarus and ukraine parties not going to stop. tatter how many people get killed or how many millions or driven from their countries as refugees.

he is feeling russia for matter. long-term war. he has admitted that now. not long after, months after the military operati started. never. we underestimated how good we were w. we the support were going to have in ukraine. from his view wl conclude with his view our forefathers which by the way just by the by t red army included zelensky's grandfather this is the nazi. >> situation nazi. putin's view i we sacrifice

millions to liberate ukraine from the nazis. let's pick pick out whatever figure you to credit for russian casualties to debatef 400,000, 700,000, that does not bother the presidenthe russian federation. the casualty rate and just the special military operation exceed all of the combined deaths that includes two chechen wars and their disastrous experience in afghanistan. ofroops have been killed in ukraine exceed all the soviet combat deaths may 9, 1945 the great patriotic war ends

until special military operation started. far more in year the russis more than united states did in 10 years. in empire. alexis was fabulous. [applause] quick omit make a few administrative announcemts first, get out. [laughter]? everyone needs to exit the ballroom in an orderly fashion. take allrtuff with you. they've got to set up for lunch. so do not leave stuff on the table. take your bags, take your folder, take it all with you at lunch will start at 12:15 p.m.