equation there. securing the border. >> but if we don't have the first one sealed, that is why i'm think we agree. >> we agree. we just have to do it. >> and catch and release. thank you very much. i am sorry. yeah. so without objection the committee will stand and reconvene with the votes.

programs. >> how soon does it need to be passed before some of these programs start not having the funding >> the committee edwill reconve. i will now recognize miss manning for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. as the granddaughter of immigrants who came to this country fleeing religious persecution, i would like to associate myself with mr. mark. it is clear we are facing a migration crisis in the western hemisphere, and that our immigration system is broken but congress has failed to pass meaningful, comprehensive, bipartisan immigration reform for more than 30 years. it is up to us to fix this problem. we need comprehensive bipartisan immigration reform including border security.

we have a dramatic workforce shortage in our country. no matter where i go in our district, business owners tell me that they cannot find enough workers to hire. they have asked me why we can't have more illegal immigrants and why we can't get work authorization for people who are desperate to come here and work hard to support their family. our businesses have good jobs. they cannot peel at all skill levels this is preventing businesses from growing. the fact is our system of legal immigration is outdated. it is not in our country's economic best interests. it needs to be updated. we last had immigration comprehensive reform in 1986 before we had laptop computers. before we had cell phones. before some of my colleagues were even born. that is why i helped introduce the bipartisan dignity act alongside congresswoman veronica escobar and my

colleagues on this committee, representative maria salazar and mike waller. that bill has increased funding for humane border patrol for dramatically speeding up the asylum process and update our legal immigration system in a way that will help our country's economic needs. so i wish members of our committee would spend time discussing the need for immigration reform, both at the border area, and up and down that legal immigration system, and i hope that people on this committee will look up and down the act and find it in their economic interest to support that. so, mr. isaacson, let me turn it to you. what does congress's continued inaction mean in terms of the number of people that will continue to take the dangerous trip to our southern border

because we don't have legal options for them. >> that is an excellent question. thank you so much for your work on the dignity act. it is a good first step. >> it is not a perfect bill. there are things i love and thanks i hate which is what we will ever have to do if we get a bipartisan immigration bill passed. >> i applaud that spirit. as we are still without framer from the 1990s on immigration, if someone wants protection what are their choices right now? there are maybe 20,000 spots for the program. there are some tiny humanitarian parole programs. and family reunification programs. maybe you can look out and get you a temporary work visa that does not offer you protection and you have to go back. that creates this only other option which should be a last

resort and go across all these other countries for miles and set foot on soil on the u.s. border. >> they have put significant efforts into trying to put increased private sector investments in central america to try to provide more opportunities for people who live there. has this been sufficient and is there more we can do to help those economies grow? >> the private sector investment can create good jobs for a few percentage points of the population. that is very important, especially in the short term when you're trying to give people one less incentive to leave. we have to think about the medium and long-term, too. that is anticorruption. education. protecting human rights. democracy. making people feel they have a future and that the country they live in has a future. >> so the act provides resources for migrants to undergo credible interviews and apply for asylum in third countries or their countries of

origin, and i understand the biden administration is working on a system like this to have regional processing centers. with this help us? >> being able to access some way of getting protectant without having to make that journey would definitely be a help. you would definitely have to propose something new in the law which we are proposing to do. >> i yield back. >> thank you very much, miss manning. at this time, i will turn it over to mr. beard and i will turn it over for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chair. i appreciate it. i thought a few witnesses were willing to come back after we voted. at least i can come back and ask some kind of question. anyway, thank you for doing that. giving us the opportunity to ask questions. but, you know, my interest is the fact that, and some of this has already been mentioned, and we have been focusing on our southern border. and that the astronomical

numbers of people who are coming into our country. and the border patrol. i the crossings. not so much venezuelans, hondurans, reported that chinese citizens have been apprehended in the past year, making that more than in the past 10 years alone. so, mr. isaacson, in your experience with regional security, what are the regional policy changes that the united states faces with latin america when it comes to mass migration and their relationship to china? and has there been a new agreement between latin american countries and china that have caused this increase in the chinese immigration at our southern border? >> i think the increase in chinese immigration owes to a

worsening of repression under the xi regime. for about 15 years now, some chinese have been coming generally to ecuador. ecuador changed its constitution to say that migration is a right and they do not require visas of almost anybody. so you can fly through ecuador and start your journey to all those countries to that u.s. border. that really picked up for chinese, russians, turks, and indians in the last few years. i was just at the ecuador- columbia border and saw a lot of chinese people. usually middle class. i wish i could talk to them but they did not know english or spanish. >> you think this trend is going to continue or increase? >> it could increase somewhat. the chinese who are coming are the ones who can avoid, to the extent possible, the gap.

some people with resources. poorer chinese will not ever be able to make that trip so you probably hit a ceiling pretty quick on the number who can come. >> from my perspective, the first thing you did when you move into a new area as you set up a perimeter and you set up guards so you could vent anyone coming or going and that was a way to protect everyone. so i think this kind of gets into the same kind of attitude about trying to protect everyone in the country. if there are those coming across the border to do various things, then i think we have the obligation for a chance to vet them. so, anyway, i would ask any of the other witnesses if you had any thoughts about that question or the chinese coming across the border. >> well, obviously, i think it is, again, a little naove that

chinese national do not want to come to the border in large numbers four years ago and they didn't because policies were in place to deter that kind of behavior and you see them in such dramatic numbers here recently because there are no policies to deter it. they know that if they show up they will be released into american communities. almost two to three they will be released. in the last two to three years, we have had a global crisis that we are not seen before that defies reality. it is not the fax. as much as anyone wants to say that is what is going on is a dramatic change along that border that is filling the crisis. there have always been people in the western hemisphere who wanted to go to the united states or other country but that is not going to continue. there is some kind of global migration crisis, and then all the sudden 250,000 people are going to show up at the

southern border. >> to remain in mexico program did not apply to chinese people. >> mr. hammond, we have got about 20 seconds. >> i would echo everything that circuitry will said about that. i would also add to think that a adversary like china is not going to also -- amongst the other folks who are coming here -- not use it for their advantage in terms of espionage capabilities defies common sense. we would do the same thing to any other country across the world it they had such a open border environment. so to say no one is ever going to come across the border and commit espionage or do anything else justifies common sense and logic. >> thank you. my time is up and i am coming back. >> the chair recognizes mr. jackson. >> thank you, chairman carl.

in april of 2022, governor abbott began chartering buses to transfer immigrants coming illegally to democratically lead cities as part of operation lone star. according to governor abbott, operation lone star is intended to counter illegal immigration, the illegal drug trade, and human smuggling. governor abbott has indicated that operation lone star is a direct response to what he deems to be insufficient and inadequate immigration and border enforcement policies by the biden-harris administration. to date, governor abbott is acting on the state of texas, having transported with

>> would you agree that governor abbott's actions have exacerbated the crisis at the border? >> i would not agree with it. >> why not? >> because the governor stays with a difficult circumstance of trying to address and process -- he is not processing, but to address the thousands if not millions of illegal aliens in the state of texas. there is no more capacity or shelter space. he has no way to care for these

folks. instead of turning them out onto the street, he is now as you indicated busing them to certain other cities around the city. i am just telling you what i am seeing. so as those buses go to cities like chicago, new york, and elsewhere, the cities are starting to understand what texans -- >> let me say, how does busing migrants, many of them women and children improve legal pathways for migration deter illegal border crossings and enforce border and immigration laws in a lawful and orderly way. i would ask that you, mr. hamilton answer. >> the first point i would make in response to the question is that governor abbott is a

patriot and is doing what he should do to protect his constituents. >> his constituents as americans? >> his constituents of the state of texas. he has a constitutional duty to protect his constituents. the notion that these tens of thousands of people would not also maybe in smaller numbers not also be coming to chicago into these other cities on their own accord or through the assistance of ngos and other organizations is false. i mean, they would eventually get there. the process we have is open border policies in this administration and governor abbott should be applauded. >> thank you. that is your opinion. the other question is that you believe in governor abbott engaging in human smuggling by busing them specifically under his operation lone star to democratic-lead cities? that is to you, mr. isaac? >> i would only call a human

smuggling at the migrants had no choice. most of the time, they are in a border city. they have just been released from border patrol custody. most of the time they have to ask a relative to wire the money. governor abbott is saving their relatives money by sending them to those cities. if i had to change something strongly about what he is doing, the worst thing he is not doing is coordinating with the mayors and other local authorities on the receiving end so they can know who is coming rather than just dumping them there. >> i yield back my time. thank you very much for your participation. >> and i have a letter. >> the chair recognizes mr. isaacson. >> general consent. mr. jackson? have a record admitted into the record, please. >> without objection. so ordered. >> thank you, mr. chairman.

mr. wolf, is texas a sanctuary state? >> not to my knowledge, no. >> do you know of any sanctuary cities within texas? >> i don't. >> austin could be. >> portions of houston. not to my knowledge. >> and, similarly, mr. hamilton, are all the cities as democrat-run cities, are each of them sanctuary cities and have declared so? >> i believe so and they say they welcome immigrants and they should not be deported and that they want them in their communities. >> lots kind of go to the numbers here. we have several million people who have come over the border. i have 55 miles of the border. it includes some very dangerous areas across the desert and so on and so we have thousands and thousands coming every month. they come into san diego. now, california is a sanctuary

states that the entire state is welcoming to them. and yet more than 80% of them when asked will tell you where they are going and is not california. they are in fact going to miami and other locations. so if the fact is they generally have family or relatives and know roughly where they are going, realistically, is there anything wrong with sanctuary cities and sanctuary states being expected to take substantially all these people that they are saying is welcomed and the non-century state having a reasonably right to be less welcoming? >> what i would tell you is the situation along the border defies reality to the extent and the numbers that you are seeing. >> in my area, they know it is reality. my hispanic unity that live along the border are absolutely beyond belief. they just don't know what else to do because it represents

people they would love to help but there are too many of them. >> so the busing situation is a necessity from those along the border. there is no more capacity. when you talk about new york city is a population of 9 million and, yes, they have to now address a illegal alien publishing, what about the communities in south texas at 15,000 or 20,000. when they get 15,000 illegal migrants, in almost a week in some instances, so the busing, at least in my view, i am not talking to governor abbott and others, is a necessity because of the capacity issue and the overwhelming numbers coming to cross. >> you contrasted earlier the difference between the previous administration, this administration, in the shear numbers with no explanation of an event that would have changed it other than a change in policy. is that a fair assessment? >> i think it is a change in a number policies. >> a change in a number of policies. cert. se

suffice to say, all three ssof you say that we are bringing in more people in a way that is more helpful and more than what congress has authorized which is 1.4 million a year, if that is not the case, then by any stretch of the imagination, shouldn't we -- this is a foreign affairs committee -- in fact be working with other countries to either hold these individuals so they can be more orderly brought in if appropriate or, in fact, be part of helping to discourage their immigration, and isn't that really what is absent right now? any kind of discouragement? >> well, we certainly talked earlier about a shared responsibility. it is not just a u.s. responsibility. mexico. central america. and others. i would certainly agree and say that our partners need to do more but they need to see that the u.s. is doing more and they

do not currently see that. >> hold up. let me just ask one question. i think it is known by all of you. isn't it true that international law, if you want to claim refugee status or asylum, in fact, requires that you make it at the same location after leaving the country or the region, and then in fact, with the exception of mexico and canada, virtually all of the people coming to our shores have in fact passed through intervening countries without making applications? >> it is a well-established practice that you need to seek safety in that the closest third country as you can to your home country. this idea that you're going to forum shop and transit three, four, five, six, seven different countries because you prefer the united states. not because you need protection from persecution or something

else. if that is truly the case, you are going to seek safety in the closest case imaginable. >> the seat that i have purchased. mr. chairman, there is no doubt you have established that this is a policy discipline that should be reversed and that the president is ultimately responsible for a policy that has led america, including our major cities, in turmoil. >> i thank you for this hearing and holdback. >> i think chairman to chairman, we would like to get this international security supplemental bill and i have talked to the senate about it. that supplemental bill would make such a difference so thank you for your kind words. the chair recognizes mr. mills. >> i want to start out. i have a full list of questions i was wanting to ask the witnesses. but i want to address some of

the idiocy of those who are in this committee that cannot be further from the truth. you know, we hear all the time, and mr. hamilton, i have to agree with you tremendously on what you're talking about with regards to opportunists, and i want to thank you for finally doing what we and most of us in this committee has done which is recognizing that china is an adversary and not a actual competitor. let me just address a few things. let's talk about opportunism. many are saying they're coming to america because they are scared of the violent crimes that are occurring in their cities and they are feeling as if they are on welcomed or that they are somehow, you know, looking at the criminality rates in their country and saying, well, we have to escape for the following reasons and that is why we should seek asylum. but let's put out some facts here. we had, just by the leaked document of 2023, 6383 afghanis, 3153 egyptians, 659

iranians, 185 ready needs, when his four lebanese, 24,000 chinese, 15,594 martini inns, 15,000 514 pakistanis, 30,830 turkish, 13,634 respect, 139 from yemen. that is a lot of countries that they would have had to have skipped in order to seek asylum that would have actually been able to house them for fears of criminality. let's go back to one of the numbers. 1000 13 pakistani. it is interesting because you look at the homicide murder rate. in pakistan and it is 3.98%. i can look at that city of chicago which is 29.6%. maybe there should be people trying to exit to islamabad.

i also want to point out the fact that they continue to try to talk about kids in cages. mr. isaacson, your kind of proud in almost every smirking way saying trump was doing this. does that not go into the biden and obama administration where they were separation of unaccompanied minors? >> what we saw under obama, yeah. i will tell you. >> you did not say obama though. you are proud to smirking from my colleague mr. conley, and i am still hoping he will seek treatment, but we continue to see the same thing where one wants to come play this as a partisan tool but let's talk about partisanship because we are also talking about remain in mexico. the illegality is they are trying to claim. the only thing that is illegals the way that this administration's handling thanks. our liberal colleagues and congressmen to pretend that the trump administration post implementation of mpp was done as a irrational lawless

invention of the prior administration but the truth is that the legal foundation of mpp has actually been on the books in the obama administration. you dealt with the legalities of this. could you speak up that is a true or incorrect statement >> 100%. congress dealt with it on a bipartisan basis. in fact, i don't have the vote count on the top of my head but it was a bipartisan vote of massive support to the notion that this is some kind of conservative conspiracy and that this is intended to be harmful to people of certain backgrounds and things. just nothing could be further from the truth. >> i will tell you what is interesting. my colleagues on the left saw that border wall did not work but we saw how quickly nancy pelosi and the democrats put a border wall around the capitol.

but they don't work. let's put it that way. secretary wolf, you have been taking hits left and right because you actually believed in keeping our nation secure. i would argue that whether it was trying to make title 42 something we could keep in place as a permanent codified law or to replace or put back in place a remain in mexico agreement and that we were far safer and that our numbers were lower. let's look at the statistics. in 2018, he had the drug cartels making around $500 million a year. a lot of money. passport to 2021 under joe biden. child in human sex trafficking but they want to talk about the inhumanity if you will park on the same people who will not refer to the chinese as adversaries who are grossly inhumane in the way that they treat uighur. so it is just funny to me that we continue to hear this partisan rhetoric and nonsense from the people who say we are shipping people illegally to the sanctuary cities.

isn't that exactly what you're asking for? didn't you say we are a century city who are welcoming? they want to say it is illegal to transport them. it was illegal when they came here. and i will say one more thing. we are in fact a nation of immigrants. a nation of legal migration. and i will tell you right now that i would love to not just see a remain in mexico, title 42, build our border wall, have a early protection awareness that is a cyber and isr capability, increase our strengths, be able to allow i.c.e. to port illegals, and actually realize we are not letting the illegals continue to violate our sovereignty. with that i yelled back. >> the gentleman yields. last but not least -- i appreciate you all's patient -- mr. wallace from new york. >> mr. chairman, we have a migrant crisis in this country. one that has exploded under the

current administration. just under 10 million migrants have crossed our southern border since joe biden took office. now, as a new yorker, i understand full well that we are a nation of immigrants. my great-grandparents came through ellis island. my wife is an immigrant. i have been through this process. it is a fundamentally broken system. we must secure the border. we must stop this massive influx of illegal immigration, human trafficing, fentanyl trafficking, fentanyl pouring into our communities killing 70,000 americans last year

alone, and people are upset because the governor of a southern border state, which has been overrun for decades, had the temerity to transport migrants up to new york. joe biden was flying migrants into my district. westchester county airport. on the night flights. secrets light. nobody was supposed to know about it. long before governor abbott started sending anyone to new york. my democratic colleagues in new york did not have boo to say about it. why? they did not care because it did not impact them. they say we are a sanctuary state and a sanctuary city. they use billions in taxpayer funds to provide free housing, free healthcare, free education, free food, free clothing. for undocumented migrants.

and, now, because it has impacted them, they are complaining. the mayor of new york city after saying we welcome them -- in fact going to the port authority bus terminal to welcome them, now says this crisis is destroying new york city. it now says that we need to cut the nypd budget at a time when crime is still at record highs. this is an absolute disgrace. this problem can be solved very simply. secure the border. increase border personnel. increase court personnel to hear these asylum cases expeditiously. these asylum cases are taking two to three years to be heard

at a minimum and nearly two thirds of them are rejected when they are heard because poverty in and of itself is not a prerequisite for asylum. it is tragic. we need to work with our allies in the western hemisphere to address many of the challenges. you see the crisis in venezuela. ec the crisis in haiti. these are real challenges that we have to deal with.leaving our border wide open is not solving the problem. now, i have heard for years we have about 11 1/2 million undocumented immigrants in this country. well, when you're adding 9.6 million immigrants who are here illegally, who are waiting for their asylum case to be heard, it is a lot more than 11 1/2. we are talking upwards of over 20 million people who are here

illegally. we have to deal with that. you're not rounding everybody up and kicking them out. we all know that. and anyone who suggests otherwise is full of crap, but we have to deal with this, and we have to deal with a legal immigration system that is fundamentally broken. these arbitrary caps that have been in place for decades, immigration has not been performed since 1986. i was born in 1986. this is a joke. we should not be making immigration decisions based on our economic needs. we have a shortage of doctors, of nurses, of home health aides. instead, we are saying if you're from this country, no, you have hit your cap. what? it is foolish. it makes no sense. so let's start with one fundamental truths. that is under joe biden, nearly 10 million migrants have crossed our southern border. this administration has failed

miserably. miserably. to deal with the migrant crisis. and for governor hogle and mayor adams, to act as though they are shocked and outraged when they enact policies like century city's, like refusal to cooperate with i.c.e., like using taxpayer money to pay for free housing, healthcare, and -- and the like, give me a break. let's secure the border. i yield back. mick we all know the secretary and immigration.

without the rhetoric. because certain things did work. things they did in the prior administration worked. and so let's try to bring back the things that worked in the things that did not work we don't have to do those. you know, i want to thank all of you for being here today and your patience has been a very, very long day. but we want to thank you so much. and some members may have questions in writing. and, again, i want to thank you all and with that the committee stands adjourned.

>> very similar. >> yeah. whatever.

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