cspan, your unfiltered view of government. a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this. it looks like this. the chair of the federal communications commission and four other commissioners testified on the biden administration's broad band policy and oversight of the agency. this house energy and congress

subcommittee hearing is three hours. ree hours. well good morning. the subcommittee will come to order and the chair recognizes himself for five minutes for an opening statement. and again, welcome to today's oversight hearing of the federal communications commission. commissioner gomez, congratulations. what a great way to start the beginning, the end of your second month being with us. but, we appreciate all of the commissioners for being with us

today. and also, commissioners carr and stark, congratulations on your reconfirmation. the fcc came before this committee five months ago and much has changed since then. a bipartisan path. since september, chair has pursued a federal government takeover of the internet. first, the fcc plans to reclassify broad band as a common carrier under title 2 of the communications act. this effort is unnecessary and simply defies logic. the obama administration attempted to do the same thing. although statements were unsubstantiated about the internet being ruined and broad band continued to thrive under the continue light touch regulatory framework. our networks have performed remarkably well. they withstood the increased uses caused by the covid-19

pandemic and our regulators did not have to ask sites to throttle or degrade their service unlike europe. providers responded quickly to demand. turning away from this success and adding additional regulations will make deployment more difficult. this simply doesn't make sense. second, the fcc approved final rules on digital discrimination. congress directed the fcc to adopt rules for equal access to broad band service. the rules adopted go far beyond congressional intent. among those provisions, the rules adopt a disparate impact standard focusing on intentional discrimination. the fcc's new rules permit the fcc to micro manage the broad band industry to dictate to providers to build how to charge. burdensome expanse of regulation will discourage broad band build out at a time when americans need it the

most. i ask the fcc. the fcc is most successful in a pursuit by partisan priorities, for example, the fcc recently voted to refresh the record on the 5g fund which will help support deployment of 5g in our rural areas. 5g is critical for connectivity. and use cases like precision agriculturement we need to make sure every american has access to broad band at home and on the go. the broad band landscape has changed significantly since the fcc adopted rules for the 5g fund in 2020. so i appreciate that the fcc is revisiting these rules in light of recent events. i would be remiss if i didn't mention that congress needs to continue to work to restore the auction authority. we have gone just about a year without it and we have to have it. and finally, i want to end on a

note of caution. the recent partisan action taken by this commission gave me grave concern. at a time when the government is prepareing to provide over $42 billion for broad band deployment, imposing federal regulations risk this money going to waste. we should strive every single day to be good stewards of americans' hard earned tax dollars. and again, i want to thank all the commissioners for being with us today. i look forward to the discussion we're going to have. especially on these important issues before the commission today. and i now yield to my colleague, the ranking member of the subcommittee. the lady from california for her opening statement for five minutes. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i'm thrill today be here for this hearing. it is an important one. today, the fcc is appearing with a full compliment of commissioners. with five commissioners i know the chairwoman is ready to use

the full authority to increase connectivity and boost innovation. and it is the first appearance of commissioner gomez. commissioner gomez, congratulations again, i know you are ready to bring your experience to support more dynamic and inclusive communications policy. this fully functional fcc couldn't come at a more critical time. the opportunities and challenges the agency faces will have long lasting implications for the digital economy. expanding broad band connectivity. increasing cyber security. promoting digital equity and more. the subcommittee in congress also has vital roles to play. the acp has already helped more than 22 million families afford a broad band connection. whether it is for the first time or whether you need a little extra help making ends

meet, the acp is working but you don't need to take my word for it. earlier this month, a bipartisan group of governors sent a letter to congressional leaders urging them to fund this critical program. signed by the letters of washington, utah, michigan, or others, the governors in many states represented on this subcommittee are on record for sustaining the acp. as they noted in the letter, preserving the acp will allow us to build upon the progress we have made and expand connectivity rather than falling behind. an admission we cannot afford to lose. i couldn't agree more. president biden included $6 billion for acp and a sup limittal request. the republican governors who signed this letter urged us in congress to work collaboratively with the biden administration to ensure the acp received additional funding. so i'm asking my republican colleagues to heed that call and get this done. our constituents are counting

on us. i also want to take a moment to talk about another bipartisan priority. an administration supplemental funding request. addressing the shortfall. back in december, i wrote to president biden urging him to include full funding for the supply chain program. the cosponsor of the bipartisan bill i believe is a national security imperative. and we remove every last piece of vulnerable equipment from the networks. until this shortfall is addressed, the united states will continue to be exposed to an unacceptable national security risk. both democrats and republicans understand the threat the chinese gear poses so let's work together on a bipartisan basis to get this done. i'm also eager to discuss the fcc's role inspection governance. the global race to 5 and 6g is

quite hot. this is massive opportunities for americans to stay ahead of our peers. the federal government must be a driving force in maintaining a healthy spectrum price line. that is why it was so glad to see the strategy they represent continuing u.s. leadership. i'm excited to discuss the documents here today. but there is much more we will discuss at this hears, like maintaining the open internet and preventing digital discrimination. i want to thank the chairwoman and commissioners for appears before us. and i yield the remainder of my time. >> thank you very much. the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from washington.

for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. good morning everyone. chairwoman, commissioners, welcome back to the committee on energy and commerce. i would like to echo my colleague's to commissioner gomez. i look forward to working with all of you. a top priority for energy and commerce is closing the digital divide and the fcc plays a key role in that effort. in 2020, congress passed the broad band data act which directed the fcc to update the agency's broad band map to provide a more accurate perspective on what parts of the country are served and unserved. more than $42 billion in federal funding has been allocated to deploying broad band. in unserved areas to ensure all americans are connected. this is in addition to the funding already provided by the fcc through various programs. this committee has passed legislation to lift broad band

permitting burdens to make sure every dollar provided by congress goes toward serving americans. recent actions by the fcc threatened the success of these federal funding programs. the biden fcc under chairwoman rozenwersel is attempting to regulate broad band as a public utility under the communications act of 1932. this heavy handed regulatory approach was designed to regulate monopolies. but today's competitive broad band market is far from a monopoly. this is apparent as the chair's order plans to fore bear from 27 provisions in title 2 and more than 700 regulations. the last time we had this debate during the trump administration, democrats claimed that the internet as we knew it would end. that we would get the internet one word at a time.

that repealing net neutrality would hasten the death of the internet. since the repeal of the last takeover in 2017, investment in broad band networks is up. speeds are up, prices are down. our broad band network withstood the ultimate stress test during the covid-19 pandemic. and during increased usage without government intervention. we must maintain the current light touch, regulatory approach that has allowed our network to adapt and thrive. to further expand the federal government's role in this industry, earlier this month, the fcc approved new rules on digital discrimination. these new rules will put burdensome requirements on our nation's broad band providers. leading to government bureaucrats, micro managing americans internet access. rather than focusing on intentional discrimination against historically marginalized groups as congress intended, the biden

administration is once again unilaterally expanding the power of unelected bureaucrats under the guise of equity. the fcc's expansive standard for what constitutes discrimination will lead to overenforcement and regulatory uncertainty for american businesses and job creators. under president biden's broad band takeover, ordinary business decisions about whether to deploy broad band infrastructure, what rates to charge customers, and even how to market services to communities could trigger fcc's scrutiny. this is a significant power grab for federal government bureaucrats. the reality is burdensome regulations like these will discourage deployment and innovation. harm our efforts to close the digital divide and seed our leadership in next generation technology to china. that is why we sent a letter to

the chair cautioning against refreshing the record. since i haven't received a response, i will reiterate my concern and my firm view that changes to laws that govern the media marketplace need to be done by congress. not by the fcc. the fcc has moved full speed ahead to expand its authority and ignore intent or direction. instead of a progressive agenda that leads to more federal control over the services, you have a responsibility to work with this committee to carry out the many responsibilities that demand full attention. especially when so many critical issues remain unresolved. the fcc has not completed its work to streamline the process. illegal robo calls continue to defraud americans.

while congress works, no spectrum has been identified to make available for commercial use. these should be demanding the commission's full attention and i look forward to discussing these matters further today. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> thank you. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from new jersey for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. for the first time in too long, i would like to welcome all five commissioners of the federal communications commission to this committee and welcome for the first time in your new role, commissioner gomez. good to see you. while this is an fcc oversight hearing, committee republicans want to focus on broad band which is mind with me. after all, president biden and congressional democrats delivered for the american people with the bipartisan infrastructure law and that is driving broad band access, adoption, and affordability across the united states. it invests $42 billion in bringing broad band to every

corner of this country. lowering internet bills for 22 million american families through the bipartisan affordable connectivity program and preventing digital discrimination. so everyone gets a fair chance to connect to the internet and participate in our economy. while this has garnered some republican support. not one republican voted on it. if this was so important, i would have thought they would have supported us in this investment. the fcc has played an outside role in making our broad band aspirations a reality. the fcc built a successful affordable connectivity program making broad band more affordable for more than 22 million american families. it also recently released the third version of the national broad band map which will help states with the underserved

areas eligible. they are investigating junk fees and data caps subject to blackouts and increasing the minimum speed for broad band service. and the commission is putting consumers first by proposing a rule to restore net neutrality. as internet connections are becoming more and more critical to our everyday lives, americans are tired of spending hours attempting to resolve issues with their broad band service and waiting endlessly for a broad band provider to serve their neighborhood. they would welcome a referee on the field. a dereliction of the fcc's 100 year old duty toover see our communications network. since that change, the fcc's functions have been frustrated when it comes to broad band networks. limiting its ability to

investigate network outages. protect consumers and promote national security. since the previous administration gave up authority over broad band, nearly 250,000 consumer complaints against broad band providers have piled up at the fcc. 250,000 complaints that have not investigated or addressed. restoring net neutrality protections would allow the fcc to revolve these complaints and that would be a major win for consumers. of course, there is still more work to be done. while we have some success with they tray stack, we haven't yet solved robo calls and i will introduce legislation to provide the fcc with more tools to stop the menace to robo calls. congress must continue to fund critical programs within the fcc's portfolio. the affordable connectivity program could run out of funding in the second quarter of next year and we just can't allow that to happen. the secure and trusted communications network reimbursement program faces a

$3 billion shortfall. i hope they can keep these important programs going. and we must restore the fcc spectrum action authority. chairwoman rogers has been. i yield back my time. >> thank you very much. the gentleman yields back. and, this time, i do want to recognize and thank our witnesses for being with us today. i want to recognize the honorable jessica, chair of the fcc. brendan carr, commissioner, jeffrey stark, commissioner, nathan simonton, commissioner, and anna gomez, commissioner.

congratulations on your first hearing. glad to have you. the timer light will go off when it turns yellow. you'll have one minute remaining. and it will turn red when your time is expired. i just want to mention because the questions i know that you have a lot of questions today. members might have to cut you off to move onto their next question to the next witness. so not being rude, just that we have x amount of time to go with. but i do want to recognize the chair of the fcc. you are recognized for five minutes for our opening statement. thanks for being with us. >> chair mcmorris rogers. pallone. members of the subcommittee. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. it was actually one year agoen on this day that chatgpt was launched. like nothing before this text based chat bot introduced the public to the power of

artificial intelligence. it was also a healthy reminder that technology moves at lightning speed. so much of it depends on deepening our connections and strengthening our network. and of course, this was at the core of what the fcc does. so i want to highlight for you a dozen things we have been doing the past 12 months. first, the fcc recently moved to restore oversight over broad band and reinstate a standard for net neutrality. bringing it back will enhance the agency's able to oversee broad band consumer protection. public safety and national security. second, earlier this month, the fcc implemented the first bipartisan civil rights law of the digital age. we put in place policies to prevent and eliminate discrimination in broad band access. third, we are growing access to broad band with the affordable connectivity program. the largest ever effort in the united states. to support broad band affordability. 22million households now rely on it for work, health care, education, and more. and we need congress to keep

funding this essential program. fourth, the fcc is fighting for consumers by shutting down television junk fees and increasing billing transparency. we proposed to cut early termination fees to help consumers sign up for internet service. fifth, the agency has created the most accurate broad band map in our nation's history. and because this map is iterative, it is improving all the time. sixth, the fcc is helping students learn without limits by making sure every one of them has the broad band connection they need to succeed in school. we are supporting wi-fi connections on school buses turning ride time into connected time for homework. this is especially valuable for rural students who spend long hours to and from school on the bus. seventh, we are working to connect the most vulnerable. for the first time in history, the fcc has rules to help survivors of domestic violence get safe connections and leave abuse behind. we are also working to remedy

long standing challenges. and increasing platforms for those with disabilities. the fcc is working to make sure your private data stays private. this month we will vote on a proproe sal to update our data breach rule. we are doubling down on effort to stop junk robo calls and texts. enabling new enforcement and partnerships. in fact, attorneys general from 48 states have signed up to work with us on this initiative. only nebraska has said no. but the truth is we need more tools because scam artists update fast and we need to update fast, too. we are updating wireless emergency alerts so that for the first time ever, they will be available in 13 different languages. we made 988 the new easy to remember three digit number to

call or text for mentalhealth support. the fcc has taken a series of actions to prevent communications from national security threats. this includes the effort to rip out insecured chinese communications equipment. we'll need more funding from congress for it to succeed. we are modernizing the use of spectrum for space and terrestrial services. the fcc has created the first ever space bureau. we streamlined the process for satellites and we stepped up our policies to prevent orbital debris. on the ground, we have expanded unlicensed access where we believe augmented reality is going to take hold. we also have identified the 12giga hertz band. we need to restore the spectrum

auction authority. finally, i'll end where i started. we are looking at artificial intelligence. we are exploring how it can be used to improve network resilience and identify junk traffic. the possibilities here are big and i want the agency to explore them. so that is a quick tour of the thing it is fcc is doing. thank you for having me. i look fore ward to answering any questioning you may have. >> thank you for your testimony. and, commissioner carr, you are recognized five minutes for your opening statement. >> thank you. chair rogers, distinguished members of the subcommittee. thank you for the invitation to testify. in june at the last fcc oversight hearing i testified about the important bipartisan work the fcc was accomplishing. the fcc delivered a series of common sense wins on matters from competition and universal

service to consumer protection. those decisions track the bipartisan policies this committee included in its bills. including the sat act spearheaded by rogers and pallone. there is much more progress we could continue to make by working together. the biden administration has pressed the fcc to break hard left. the biden administration has put ideology over smart policy. the biden administration's entire approach to the internet. it boils down to one word. control. you see it in the administration's call for title 2 internet regulation. in the administration's campaign to pressure social media companies to sensor

political speech. you can see it in the administration's demand for digital equity rules for the internet. none of these decisions are isolated ones. they all share and advance the same goals of increasing government control. i will focus on title 2 and its fraternal twin digital equity. six years ago, americans lived through one of the greatest hoaxes in regulatory history. they were told the fcc's 2017 decision to reverse title 2 would literally break the internet. it was a vital disinformation campaign with doses of orwellian workplace. you will get the internet, one word at a time, some predicted. the internet itself would slow

down. did any of those protections come to pass? of course not, since 2017, broad band speeds in the u.s. are up six fold. prices are down and record breaking broad band bills have brought millions across the divide. title 2 was never about improving your online experience. that was just the sheep's clothing. it was always about control. and the biden administration has made clear it wants to gain that control back. urging the fcc to adopt a sweeping new equity plan. the fcc complied. president biden's plan gives the federal government a roving mandate to micro manage nearly every aspect of how the internet functions.

it sweeps entire agencies for the first time. congress never authorized any of this. senator collins, the lead republican negotiator described it as a regulatory overreach. it goes beyond the authority congress provided. one example is the administration's strategy. the spectrum plan frees up zero megahertz of spectrum. instead of moving megahertz, the administration's plan is to keep on studying. they freed up 6,000 megahertz of licensed spectrum in addition to thousands of

additional. the government studied less than 2600. they put more spectrum into the marketplace during the last administration. and the biden administration even plans to study. it is not even close. we found bipartisan consensus on tough issues and we can do it again. one thing would be restoring auction authority. in closing i want to thank you for the opportunity to testify and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you for your testimony. commissioner stark, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you here today. as the commissioner. i am deeply committed to

ensuring that every american no matter who they are or where they live shares in the benefits of connectivity. i'm proud of the fcc's leadership in working to make broad band universally accessible and affordable. aligning of course with congressional goals. the affordability connectivity program and its success is evidence with substantial enrollment nationwide. over 22 million households in rural, urban, and tribal communities have access to connectivity that supports employment, education, tele health, and more. this includes more than 100,000 households enrolled in 40 states. 15,000 in all 50 states. the point is this is helping to

get households connected everywhere. help to increase awareness and enrollment for those in public housing. i meant one woman, queen bee from the yesler terrace in seattle washington who said it was a blessing to have the internet. i agree. acp's funding is running out. it is vital that that we work together. in recent months, we have also taken historic steps toward ensuring that fundamental fairness rains on the internet. we commence a proceeding to provide long standing principles against blocking and throttling. these efforts can protect consumers in their access to broad band. enhancing our security and aligning broad band policy with

national consensus. we have also implemented the bipartisan infrastructure investment and jobs act. directive that we set forth rules to prevent discrimination everywhere. stopping it anywhere will empower individuals everywhere. finally, at the ongoing itu world communication conference dubai, our discussions are shaping the future of global spectrum management. i am deeply confident that the american workers and innovators will build a bright future for wireless and satellite networks and note our ability to lead as we have heard here today, both abroad and here at home, is premised on an extension of the fcc's spectrum auction authority. securing our networks against threats remains a top priority. for me. and in particular. while we work closely with our

sister agencies, reliance on self-regulation alone is insufficient. one priority is to complete the process. we have made great progress implementing the secure trusted communications networks act of 2019. but additional funding is needed to complete the removal, replacement and destruction of insecure equipment and services from our communication networks. another is to complete the cyber trust mark rule making which would raise the bar for cyber security across our smart devices. thank you for this opportunity to discuss these vital issues and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you for your testimony. and, commissioner simonson, you are recognized for five minutes for your statement. >> thank you. chairman, vice chair, ranking members, distinguished members of the subcommittee. it is truly a pleasure to appear before you today. this is my hearing where the

commission has had a full compliment of commissioners. it remains my hope the bipartisan camaraderie that existed when the commission was in a 2-2 balance will endurement it is only through common sense that we can make sure the larger public interests are served. unfortunately, in the short time we have had a full commission, there has been an expected though no less disappointing shift in focus like the broad band and discrimination regulatory regime. i implore congress to pass legislation to create an updated framework for the modern internet eco system that would end the continued industry over the title 2 fight and create clear rules of the road for all companies in the internet eco system. the fcc has engaged in the wasteful extension of the usf

programs to provide redundant services and it has done so without taking any steps to ensure that usf funding mechanisms are reformed in a way to support these extensions. i applaud senators mullen, kelly, and crepo for introducing the lowering broad band consumers act. i sincerely hope this legislation is passed expeditiously. in the meantime, while the fcc remains distracted by wrong headed priorities, it neglects necessary reforms that will better serve and protect consumers of broad band services. i will address what i view as the most urgent priorities. ensuring consumers are fully informed. as i stated in my testimony in june of this year, it is vital the fcc spectrum auction authority is renewed. nearly five months later this request is more urgent to prevent the united states from falling behind as the world's

technology leader. the united states system for commercializing spectrum has ensured that valuable airways get put to the highest and best use. and it has made the united states the global leader in wireless communication. industry continually needs a steady stream of commercial spectrum in the pipeline to stay ahead and continue providing services and any amount of green field spectrum made available can represent billions of dollars of productivity gains for the american economy. the authority to put new spectrum to use. lastly, i would like to address what i view as a serious problem that is putting our wireless networks, not to mention consumer's precious financial and personal data at risk. it is a problem that the fck can do more to address. hundreds of millions if not billions of devices in active use in this country. more are susceptible to known vulnerabilities exposing americans to private data and to attacks on the integrity of

the republican private data. these vulnerabilities leave american entrepreneurs in a precarious position. it may be impractical to affect. at minimum, to clearly disclose these vulnerabilities to consumers and enterprise users so that all americans can make informed decisions about what devices to invest in. a recent fbi advisory or increased cyber attack, unpatched medical devices and control systems. we have not yet seen the worse. an attacker could use unpatched vulnerabilities to take control of mobile phones. turn the radios into signal jammers. high wattage devices could disrupt the power grid and

cause large scale blackouts. the early days of the connected device industry are now behind us. and the attitude threatens to thwart the progress. as we entrust technology with greater responsibility with money, privacy, personal safety and public order we need greater confidence in its security. this is why i have advocated that the fcc through its proceeding on cyber security labels adopt rules during which a manufacture, security updates. device securities just one of many other policy priorities that the fcc should instead focus on in lieu of partisan goals that do not further the public interest. chair latta: thank you for your opening statement. commissioner gomez, you are recognized for five minutes. commissioner gomez: good morning chairman latta, ranking member

mat sue y., chairwoman mcmorris rodgers, ranking member pallone, and recommends of the committee. it is an honor to appear before i am honored to appear before you today. i would like to thank the chairwoman and the fcc staff for their warm and generous welcome i received when i was sworn into office just two months ago. it has been a pleasure to get to know the commissioners and the staff and to learn about the important work they do for the agency. i have been working in telecommunications close to 30 years, more than half of that time spent working in government, briefly the senate commerce committee. the department of state and the white house. public service is a special calling. a desire to give back. my father was an immigrant. my mother who passed away over 20 years ago, was a dentist. my brother is a computer programmer. growing up, we moved frequently for my dad's jobs but after he was laid off, and tried to

start something on his own, we lost everything. we struggled like so many families to cut where we could. we did not have money to afford my college tuition so i worked, borrowed and paid my way through both college and law school. after working briefly at a law firm, when the opportunity arose to serve as an attorney adviser at the fcc, i jumped at the chance. little did i know that three decades of experience that followed would lead me here, testifying before congresss an fcc commissionerment i understand the importance of policy that protects the public interest and promotes competition and innovation. i worked on transformational rule makings. represented the interests of the country's largest and most innovative corporations. and represented the united states. as commissioner, i am committed to ensuring we have a vibrant

strong competitive communication marketplace. will also meeting the needs of all consumers. i believe the fcc does best when its work honors the needs of the people it serves. that means connecting everyone, everywhere to affordable reliable high speed broad band. the path to success for the next generation is a treacherous road as compared to those with access. i saw this clearly when i visited several grade school classes and med with an affordable conduct program out reach grantee. they stressed the importance of the connectivity program to help students and families get cotted and continue to learn and work during the pandemic and the role it has played in supporting and expanding access for those who cannot afford it.

it ensures that everyone can get and stay connected is critical to success for us all. this means ensuring our first responders can communicate in times of crisis. it means ensuring our connections are secure. it is critical that we shore up our network so that government, public safety officials, institutions, and consumers can trust that the information we send and receive is protected. we must be vigilant about protecting consumers. protecting victims of domestic violence. ensuring the internet remains open. consumers' interests must lead our policymaking. and we must continue to foster innovations to meet the needs

of today and tomorrow. beginning with the reauthorization of spectrum authority. spectrum auction authority. this will ensure our technological leadership continues on a global stage. manning the nation's air waves is always complex given how intertwined they are with innovation. the last two weeks i attended africa con and the world communication conference where i engaged with stake holders in the international community in support of the u.s. effort to cement our leadership in the next generation of space based broad band services and innovation in licensed technologies. my first two months on the job have been very productive but i know there are more people to meet, places to visit. organizations to engage and issues to address. and i welcome the opportunity to work with members of the subcommittee.

thank you for the invitation to testify today. i'm happy to answer any questions you have. >> thank you very much for your testimony. and again, welcome. welcome to the commission. great to have you here. as members are asking questions, we might have to cut you off so they can continue to the next question because i know we will have a lot today. so at this time,ly recognize myself for five minutes. when the republican led fcc restored broad band as title one service under the communications act, democrats told americans that we would get the internet one word at a time. chair, yes or no, is that how we get the internet today? >> i'm sorry, could you repeat the question? when the republican led fcc restored title one service, democrats told americans we would get the internet one word at a time. in a yes or no, is that how we get the internet today?

>> no. but that is the result of a dozen states stepping in their own laws. >> did it end the internet as we know it today? yes or no? >> no, but again, we had states step in and develop their own net neutrally laws. >> it is important, because i know i asked my staff the night before the rule was rescinded. i asked the dca and the district staff to do one thing for me. we received no calls. the answer of questions are both no. despite the fear mongering tactics by the left, the internet continued be the greatest trust test of all time. commissioner carr, during the covid-19 pandemic, when americans moved their entire lives online overnight, how did the internet handle the

increased traffic? >> we saw around the world basically a year's worth of track growth get loaded onto the network virtually overnight with covid-19. and u.s. networks out performed those in other parts of the world including in europe where our networks were 83% faster in terms of the relative changes we are seeing. in europe, regulators called streamers and asked them to throttle to degrade the quality of their streams because they were afraid europe's networks were going to break. now is not the time to make our networks look more like the fragile slow ones in europe. >> let me follow up. being proposed is attempting to do a mistake? a mistake to reimpose? >> it is unlawful and it is a policy mistake as well. president obama's former solicitor generals said it would be folly for the supreme

court to uphold the fcc's decision. and what we saw when the fcc, a reduction. we had very small wireless is ps that said we are going to be able to have to pull back on build. we saw municipal networks. submit filings. they were having to abandon or throttle back. title 2 is the wrong direction if the goal is to make sure we have investment in further bridging of the digital divide. >> thank you. the most recent order raised the question of national security. did you come to this committee requesting additional authorities to protect our national security? >> i would be happy to have a discussion with you about any national security. >> but no one. >> you and i spoke about this already. the reality is since i became chair, i'm in a lot of meetings

i wasn't in as commissioner and over and over again, our national security authorities come to us with problems with broad band traffic and ask the fcc to take action. but i have to say no. the last administration took away the fcc's oversight over broad band. we only have oversight over voice communications and we can't act with interconnection with data centers. we can't act to restrict chinese nationals. >> commissioner carr, any time of year since the last net neutrally order was rescinded did you receive any briefings related to the national security concerns? >> i have been a commissioner six years, and it is right down the hallway from my hallways. there has been one briefing that says here is a known problem in our broad band networks that there is a

foreign actor hijacking tractor. the u.s. government is powerless to address it. >> it is actually on the record from the department of justice. >> looking at a threat in our network. is doing nothing other than proposing a 1930s law does not pass the laugh test. we should come to congress and get law. what i saw going on was the same thingy with saw in 2017. the goal is the same. greater government control of the internet. when we had a problem, like we did when we were trying to take additional action. we got this passed very quickly and we now implement it. if there is a threat, we can't sit on our hands and wait for months until title 2 passes and goes into effect. if there is a problem, let's get fort from congress. >> thank you very much. my time is expired and i will

also ask, have my other questions on the commission for there to be answers in writing. the acp has successfully helped more than 2 million families without additional funding. cutting off connectivity across the country. we also know despite the program's success, many communities remain unaware of a program or concerned about signing up. commissioner stark, quickly, in your experience, what can we be doing to expand the footprint of acp? i know you have been working on this. >> thank you so much for the question. we have to expand our outreach. making sure we are deeply engaged with communities. everywhere from churches to

community organizers. to local leaders. developing trust as well. making sure they know how to execute on the program. and then following through and actually getting folks signed up. >> thank you. as original cosponsor, i fully appreciate the severity of the threat posed by network equipment. befored by companies like huawei. congress and the fcc have made important progress toward removing all of it until we fully fund. our work will not be done. can you briefly describe the threat posed, congress failed to fund the shortfall? >> we have asked them to rip it out and replace it with secure equipment. congress provided to us with funds for the carriers to do this but we have a shortfall of over $3 billion. that means we are providing 40

cents on the dollar to a lot of small and rural carriers to rip this equipment out and replace it. they need more funds to get the job done and for our networks to be fully secure. >> thank you. i know that talk with many of the rural areas, that has come out to me many times. yes, they are facing this challenge here. we introduced the bipartisan reauthorization act. this bill includes a provision to establish performance criteria. commissioner, quickly as demand for spectrum increases do you believe improving the receiver performance can create new opportunities for commercial use? >> thank you. i appreciate your interest. and expertise on this topic. i absolutely believe that receiver reform can help free up spectrum and i hope congress can coalesce around the common sense reforms proposed in your

recent legislation. regarding federal users. in the meantime, i'm anxious to take up a rating that we can start putting the policies to good use. >> thank you. i introduce the fcc legal enforcement act to help crack down on the dangerous and annoying surge of robo calls. while we have made important progress, it is clear more must be done. do you believe the new authorityings provided to the fcc in my bill could help reduce the amount of robo calls consumers received? >> yes. i would be happy to talk to anyone on this committee about ideas of stemming the tide of robo calls. we need new authorities and your bill is helpful. >> can you give me example? >> i can give you three. first, the year before last, the supreme court defined auto dialer in a way that left the technology stuck in the 90s so scam artists are using

technology no longer covered by the telephone consumer protection act and we can't go after them. on top of that, we have in the last year issued about $600 million in fines against these bad actors. every time we issue them, i have to hand it to the department of justice to go collect. i want the fcc to take every one of those to court. and finally, we have noticed that a lot of these scam artists, they shut down one company and set up another one. we can shut them down once and for all and kick them out of this business. >> thank you. i have been focused on the growing cyber threat over our k- 12 schools. attacks targeting sensitive information of students and their families are growing more frequent and severe. according to k-12, there have been more than 1,000 cyber incidents between 2016 and 2022. that is why i introduced the

bipartisan enhancing security act. and promote better access to information. i encouraged the fcc to continue modernizing the cyber resources it offers schools. i ran out of time. but let me try to figure out with you how we might proceed on this. thank you very much. i yield back. >> thank you. the gentlewoman yields back. and we recognize the chair of the full committee. >> the biden's fcc, we will have to have you all come up here a lot more. the move to regulate broad band as a utility under title 2 of the communications act is one example. i am equally concerned about the fcc's new so-called digital discrimination rules. the fcc went far beyond its congressional mandate by adopting far reaching rules that could result in the micro managing basic business

decisions made by providers, prices, marketing campaigns. and regulating industries outside of its jurisdiction including landlords and banks. to the chair, the iija does not give the fcc authority to regulate these practices or industries. where did the fcc find its authority and what expertise does the fcc have to regulate these practices? >> sure, congress gave us a broad mandate in 6506. prevent digital discrimination. you did not limit it to internet service providers. to some terms and conditions. the language in this statute is exceptionally broad. >> reclaiming my time. reclaiming my time. i have some more questions. commissioner carr, do you agree? >> no i don't agree. it is very clear the fcc went far beyond the one page bill

that was included in the infrastructure act. she was the lead republican drafter in the senate and this was regulatory overreach. i agree. >> thank you. back to the chair. you said many times you oppose rate regular regulation. >> earlier this year, we sent you a letter urging you not to reopen the 2014 proceedings on the mvp at the last oversight. at the last oversight hearing you stated and i quote the commission's authority extends only to what congress provided in the 1984 cable act and the 1992 cable act and it's fair to assume that none of us in the room were contemplating the kind of streaming service we was today when congress passed those laws. >> these are the kinds of streaming services we have today when congress passed those laws.

because you acknowledged that the fcc does not have the legal authority to regulate the mvpds, do you commit to not taking any action on this issue? >> i think our duties in this area is contained in the 1992 cable act which contemplated a physical facility for the delivery of video communications. that is why i think the request to incorporate digital service providers is complex. it doesn't fit neatly in the law. we are coming over the record and trying to understand copyright issues to find a way forward, but i think, fundamentally, this is an issue where those who want to act have to come to congress. i acknowledge that some of my colleagues may not feel the same way. >> thank you. the fcc adopted -- this is for commissioner car. -- carr.

this is about deploying broadband edward could make a company liable. i believe that congress authorized the fcc to adopt an impact standard? >> no. they did not include in the statute, the impact. they did not include the language allowing the agency to read the impact into the statute. for those reasons, no. in addition, that added a lot of anomalous results. these are reasons. i don't think so. >> thank you very much. i yield back. >> the gentlelady yields back. questioning time for each member -- please only respond when asked a question. at this time come the chair recognizes the working member of the committee, the gentleman from new jersey, for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. the trump fcc affected

broadband. it forced the agency to do legal gymnastics that supported broadband deployment. it is time to put this behind us and reestablish the fcc's authority over these services. 78% of americans say that it should be treated like water or electricity. can you talk a little bit about how your open internet proposal complements our shared goals to ensure everyone has access to high-speed, reliable broadband? >> yeah. i mean, the pandemic change desperate broadband is no longer nice to have. it is need to have for everyone everywhere in this country. this is a service that no one in this room would move to inning hustled and not secure. that is how fundamental and essential it is. it is also essential that we have some oversight to make sure

that for everyone in this country that, the service is fast, open, and fair. and as the premier commissions regulator in the united states, it is crazy for us to only oversee long distance voice service in a modern economy that depends on broadband. we are just restoring that authority. that is all we are trying to do here. it is good for consumers. public safety, and national security, as well. >> thank you, chairwoman. let me ask commissioner gomez. why is it important that consumers have a federal agency looking out for them, particularly when it comes to resolving some of those hundred $50,000 complaints that i mentioned in my opening statements? >> thank you. i agree with the chairwoman. broadband is central to our lives. it is central to our ability to get a good education. for healthcare. for our jobs. if we don't have access to broadband, you really can't participate in today's economy. it is so important that i agree, we need to have authority and a framework that allows us to provide guardrails to make sure that all consumers

can have access to this. >> thank you. >> thank you. another important issue that the fcc is taking on his junk fees. you know, americans throw away billions of dollars each year on junk, surprise fees. it is no wonder that consumers across the country hate these fees. let me go back to the chairwoman. can you describe your proposal in more detail? how this will lower consumer bills? >> yeah. we get a lot of complaints about junk fees . we decided that those who write subscription television services should have an all in fee so you know the actual number you will pay, not all these specialties they put on top of it. we have also decided that we should get rid of, if we can come early termination fees because we have many more choices in a competitive market.market than ever before. you can't move on to a

competitor. we also decided that if you shut off your service on the second of the month, he shouldn't be built through the 30th. we are working to get rid of these junk fees and irritations for consumers everywhere. >> thank you, again. i wanted to turn to another area where the trump fcc filter the public which is ensuring diversity in broadcasting. in over 100 markets, a single entity owns or controls two, three, or four of the network affiliates. this has increased the cost by raising tv bills and created the possibility of more devastating blackouts, no community could lose all of its local programming. chairwoman, do you agree with me that these combinations are bad for consumers, and do you have plans to address this in your upcoming reviews of the agencies media ownership rules? >> yes. we need localism. we all need local journalism to make decisions about ourselves,

our lives, and our communities. the more voices we can get in the market place, the better off we are. one thing i'm very proud that i have put before my colleagues is a local journalism initiative whereby if a station that comes before us for a license renewal has the capacity for the local origination of content, and others, produced local journalism, we will put them at the head of the line are all license renewal processes. the thing we have to find ways to prioritize the local creation of content. that is one way that i'm hoping my colleagues will agree to proceed with. we can do so. >> i appreciate that. in new jersey in particular, for north jersey, all you hear about is new york tv. no offense to my new york neighbor here. but in south jersey, you only hear about philadelphia. no one hears the local news where we are. it is very difficult. i appreciate that.

thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. the gentlemanly yields back. we not recognize the gentleman from florida's 12th district for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chair. i appreciate it. commissioner carr, in the past, you expressed concerns about this deployment. now that we have a historic amount of taxpayer dollars going out through this program, i want to make sure it is spent as intended and not frivolously wasted. i've been working on draft legislation that would create fair and defined make ready timelines where they don't already exist. at the same time, i seek to omit any fcc rate regulations so that any concerns on additional costs can be placed on the applicant provider as opposed to the ratepayers. additionally, if the state believes that their geography or constituency are better suited with different timelines, i provide a route to allow

conflicting state laws to prevail. i think balancing all of these interests is key to creating a realistic path forward. we worked really hard on this. what do you think of this approach and the goal of streamlining access to polls for broadband deployment generally? >> thank you for your work on this. the idea is that you have your builder sure they would go a long way towards accelerating that. fiber is sometimes buried. sometimes it is attached to utility poles. there was a study out, looking at 2022 and it showed that fiber builders fell 1 million homes short of their goal of reaching new fiber. part of it was lack of permitting reform. we can make it easier and fairer to everyone in the process. i think this goes a long way to helping to bridge digital divides. thank you for your work on that. >> thank you so much.

thank you, commissioner carr. as we know from many contexts, workforce shortages, supply- chain snacks, and permeating barriers can all lead to unwanted, unforeseen delays in various industries. this is already covered under fcc timelines. had there been issues related to the ability of companies to meet the make ready timelines, especially smaller companies, and is there any recourse on the strictness of the make ready timelines if the pole owner cannot be the timeline due to no fault of their own, such as supply-chain issues, and lack of workforce, or even a natural disaster? >> certainly we can speak to a lot of those issues. we can try to help bolster the workforce issue, in particular. we have to find the right

balance between putting too much demand on pool owners and making sure we're not going down on broadband bills. i want to make sure we strike the right balance at the end of the day. >> thank you so much. i think it makes a lot of sense. on a different topic, commissioner, do you anticipate public safety concerns from the removal of a.m. radio for vehicles as expected in the coming years? >> thank you, congressman. i would say that there is no backup. right now, there is no alternative to a.m. radio for many types of important emergency communication. >> thank you very much. i will yield back my time. >> thank you. we now recognize thank you. thank you for convening this hearing. we think our panelists for

meeting today. in particular, want to welcome our newest commissioner, anna gomez, to the desk. we are thrilled to have you aboard. it is great to see a full commission with us are today. i would like to start by commending chairwoman rosenworcel for their leadership and for all your hard work in these difficult times, even while commissioner, this fcc has done fantastic work implementing critical roles that help promote conductivity, competition, and innovation. i'm also proud of the work this committee has done and is continuing to do to facilitate and enhance access to broadband services and ensure all americans have reliable access to the internet. coming off a two-year anniversary of the bipartisan infrastructure law, the fcc has recently finalized a rule to eliminate and prevent --

digital discrimination based off of my legislation introduced in 2010. last month's announcement of proposed rules to reestablish the commission's oversight of broadband under title ii represents yet another critical step by the fcc towards protecting our national security, addressing complaints, and holding providers accountable for anticonsumer, anti- competitiveness action. chairwoman rosenworcel, under your your ship, the fcc has done a dramatic job implementing the affordable connectivity program. some served 1800 households. that number has grown to nearly 22 million homes. the success of this program is undeniable and with funding expected to run out early next year, i will plan to fight hard to make sure congress to provide the request. and to that end, i look forward to introducing legislation on

that subject before congress concludes its work for the year. staying with the acc, my question is for you, chairwoman rosenworcel. chairwoman, what problems could consumers face if there was a lapse in funding? what could the families enrolled in this program expect to see notices that they are being cut off if the supplemental funding is late or less than what the program needs? what consumer safeguards can the fcc employ to protect them? >> thank you so much for your work on the digital does commission proceedings, but also, your championing the affordable connectivity program. we have felt the largest broadband affordability effort in history. i thought about it with international legislators.

it is a model for the world. we have 22 million households that rely on this program to get online, stay online. commissioner gomez, said, for work, for education, for healthcare, for more. we have come so far. we can't go back. we need congress to continue to fund this program. if congress does not in april of next year, we will have to unplug households. based on current projections, it will be about 25 million households we will unplug from the internet in april. if we do that come early in the year, we will have to let the providers know that they are going to have to give notice to everyone of those households and every one of those consumers who can't fund this program. we will have to indicate to the providers that they can no longer enroll new households and we will have to work with our outreach coordinator's to bring our efforts to an end. the best case scenario is we don't do any of those things because congress continues to support this program like you described. >> would show this committee

that your hearing from the industry as to their need to prepare for this scenario? >> we are having conversations with them now, but across the board, i think industry would like congress to continue this program. they realize that this is key to solving the digital divide. it is not just about deployment. it's also about access and affordability. >> very well. commissioner stark.starks, what steps can the fcc take to promote transparency and work towards data to move us towards a more diverse media landscape? i have 28 seconds, so i wanted to get that in. >> well, perhaps most important, thank you for your long-standing partnership on this. i know it has been an issue as long as i have been a commissioner. with regard to media ownership numbers, we publish that earlier in january of this year. there continues to be work to be in down there for women ownership as well as diverse ownership with regard to employment that you focused on briefly. that is an issue where we have fallen down and our statutory obligation to collect that

information for over 20 years now. it is something that i know the fcc is working on and i look forward to working with my colleagues to see if i can get that to ground. >> thank you very much. i yelled back. >> thank you very much. the chair recognizes the gentleman from michigan for five minutes. >> thank you. thank you for the panel being here today. appreciate it. i was grateful to hear the chairman, and your conversation with our chairman, your commitment on the issue of rate regulation. i appreciate the letter that you responded to me with, affirming that. so i'm glad that we can affirm together today that that isn't in the plans in both title ii rules and your new digital does

commission rules will make sure that doesn't take place. so let me move on. chairwoman rosenworcel, when the fcc appeared before the subcommittee in march of 2022, you and i discussed the importance of having a spectrum pipeline. at that time, you suggested that congress could help by ensuring ntia immediate statutory requirement of identifying 11 megahertz of spectrum below three gigahertz for auction. congress directed ntia to complete the study and deliver a report by january of 2022. the statute also requires fcc to auction the spectrum by summer of 2024. so the question comes. has ntia delivered its report to the fcc? in other words, i'm wondering if ntia has met their statutory requirements.

>> no. they have not. under the law, we have an obligation to start an auction by july of 2024. so we won't be able to do so unless we have an indication of what spectrum they would like us to work with. >> i guess i will have to follow-up that question and asked the question anyway. is the fcc on track to auction the special next year as the statute requires? >> no. because we need them to identify that 30 megahertz of spectrum. >> okay. just wanted to make sure i understood it. more importantly, everyone else heard it, including ntia. commissioner gomez, welcome. your story is important to have hurt this morning. i appreciate hearing that. i understand that you recuse yourself from certain matters pursuant to the biden ethics pledge. can you explain what the pledge requires of you and if you plan to seek a waiver for any matters before the commission? >> yes, congressman.

so i am subject to both the general ethics requirements under the rules, as well as the biden ethics pledge. the ethics pledge impacts my work in a couple of ways. it's a little more expensive than the regular ethics rules. the first is that it restricts me from participating in any particular matter involving specific parties that is directly and substantially related to my former employer. i worked at a law firm before. oh, right before this. i worked with the state department. before that, i worked at a law firm. it was within the last two years. my former employer or former client. the pledge also does allow me to participate in matters of general applicability. where the participation is open

to all parties. so general rulemaking. the more restrictive policies think enforcement proceedings, mergers, adjudicatory proceedings, things like that. i can review written filings without restrictions. and i can meet with my former employers and former clients within certain limitations. i can meet with former employers about matters of general applicability when non- former employers are participating in such a meeting. my staff can meet with former employers for my former clients on matters which i don't have to recuse myself. >> i appreciate that. it is a complex answer. thank you for answering it. probably, my staff should follow-up just to get a more complete -- seeing what your

memory is on this. so thank you. i only have 12 seconds left. i wanted to ask for 12 something but i guess we'll that later. mr. chairman, yelled back. >> the gentleman yields back in the chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas's 33rd district. >> mr. chairman, thank you very much. i want to thank the panel for being here. i talked to commissioner gomez. at the time of our oversight hearing of the fcc in june, there were more than 18 million americans that were participating in the acp or affordable connectivity program. for the most part, with the acp navigator program, there are more than 22 million americans enrolled in the program, which i think is awesome.

commissioner starks pointed out something that i think is hugely important. he talked about there being zip codes that have participated in this program, and that is interesting because that tells you that this program does rather than it being a blue deal already deal, that this is something that all americans, regardless of what part of the company -- country or what kind of congressional district they live in, like this program and think it is a good idea, helping americans. >> commissioner gomez, of the appropriated funds, it's probably going to run out by april of next year. if we do not find a path forward to fund this program before then, then 22 million households will lose benefits. what does the potential disruption of acp mean for future community outreach efforts regarded -- related to digital connectivity? >> thank you, congressman.

you say it exactly right. we are about to run out of the funds in just a few short months. and losing that funding will mean millions of households will lose connectivity. and the efforts that we do will have to stop because we can't continue to provide outreach on the program that doesn't have funding. that will make the consumers lose trust in the government. some of these low income households already have a low trust of government and we want them to be of these these programs so that they can become part of the internet community. so it is very serious. i'm glad that you are focusing attention on getting this program refunded. >> absolutely. roughly a quarter of the 22 million households enrolled in acp had no internet access at all before acp. the recent partnership has played a critical role in connecting federal housing, assistance for residents

through acp. commissioner starks, want to go back to your testimony and ask, what steps can congress or the fcc take to make sure that these families, that are from very blue districts and very red districts, obviously, by the multitude of zip codes they talked about. what can congress and the are to do to make sure that these families can build their foundational digital competency, even if the acp runs out? >> absolutely. one of the things i have found, especially on the issue of public housing, you know, oftentimes, as policy makers, we hold different levers to get the different result that we are trying to bring about, but in particular, with housing, for folks that are on low income housing, vulnerable housing, we are helping you to get housed.

so let's make sure we can connect you on that housing. but again, the same issues that are wrapped up with these households, these are at households where you can just hope they sent for the program. you have to engage the community and engage the trust. there are language barriers. all of this as major that there are opportunities for folks that you say yes. >> absolutely. >> chairwoman rosenworcel, the fcc has made it clear in its report on the future of the usf, that congress should continue to build on the investment from the law. it will help the country reach equitable access to broadband. today, the usf relies on funding from contributions from a shrinking base of services. i want us here if the conversation takes place in congress regarding the future of the universal service fund. what are some things you would hope we keep in mind to make sure that we are making positive efforts to modernize this hugely important program?

>> yeah. appreciate it. that is a complex question i have 20 seconds to answer. what i want to do is follow up with you and your stuff and make sure you see a copy of the report that we all worked on for this future service. it has different circumstances. i would love to follow up with you so we can discuss it. so the fund can continue in a consistent way. >> thank you very much. the chair recognizes the vice chair of the subcommittee, the gentleman from georgia. five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. thank you all for being here.

keep in mind that one of the main functions of congresses oversight. this is what we are here for. not to be confrontational, but for oversight, because we need to be educated. we are going to differ on policy issues. i differ on digital discrimination, and it's not going to change, probably, but i want to be educated. i don't want to be confrontational. i just want to answer some questions put onto start out by saying that we have a lot of ground to cover and i want to associate myself with chair rogers comments. chairwoman, i want ask you. the digital discrimination role that has been issued by the fcc, it seems to me to be extremely broad. and i think it is extremely broad. i think the average person reading it would agree with that . how will the fcc know whether a provider is in violation of these rules? will providers be asked -- or be required to ask customers about their income and other characteristics like this? how are you going to implement this? >> thank you for the question. i appreciate that you and i have talked about this before. i would say that the law that congress passed is very broad.

it is structured around a complaint process. the fcc chose not to have formal complaints. only in formal complaints to try to facilitate an understanding if there are problems. we made clear that there can be no third-party rights of action. we are inviting a conversation with the agency about where -- >> -- let me ask you this. i get this so often being a member of congress. the law that you passed was extremely broad, and the way you interpret it or the way that agencies interpreted it not just the trait fcc, but many agencies. how can we make it better for you? how can we make it so it is not as broad? >> i think we should assess this law at the one-year mark. if you wish welcome back and see if we did what we intended to do. is it challenging for people to find complaints? are we resolving problems? yes or no? i think we could look at that. >> let me ask you this. part of my question was this.

will they be required to provide information about their rates and income? >> providers have to abide by the law. >> is that a yes or no? yes, they will have to ask about their race and income? >> answer is no, but they can seek advisory opinions from us if they have any concerns. >> okay. let me ask you this. the digital disc mission law -- you have been in there at one point. i'm very sensitive to this. if a local government doesn't improve a permit, would that be a violation of the fcc's digital discrimination rules? >> i think it would be a violation of section 253 of the key medications . >> you say i think it would be. >> i would like to double check with the statute, but the primary law that governs it is section 253.

the telecommunications service. it is a wireless facility. it is section 332 of the law. >> okay. fine. fine. >> there already is a law on that. >> commissioner carr, i appreciate you very much and your attention. the fcc inspector general has issued a number of alerts of fraud within acp including agents of companies fraudulently enrolling people in the program. i understand that the individual sales agents have been kicked out of the program. what consequences do providers face? do they face any consequences at all for fraudulent enrollments? >> yeah. one reform i looked for was to see a sufficient pattern of violation, we shouldn't just fine. we should be kicking them out of these programs. >> absolutely. thank you for that. what other reforms? anything else you would have us consider? >> one idea i put forward is having the fcc formally and every time consult with the inspector general and get their

list of reforms they want, but the minute document. if we disagree, we can see it. we should formalize the process of getting the inspector general views on the front end. >> i heard you mentioned earlier that you have gone to the doj. i don't with an agency yesterday. it was a separate issue, but it was the same thing. they have decided to the doj. want to give you the authority that you need, but at the same time, i don't want to be calling these agencies, hearing them say, well, we shouldn't do that. >> we have sought the advice of the office of the inspector general to make sure that the integrity of this program is secure. i also think we have bad actors. we have to kick them out of the program. >> absolutely. >> commissioner carr , anything? >> thank you for your work. a lot of people haven't had a chance to splice fiber before. you have. >> i have. >> usually, a little bit of losses okay. but it was a 0.00. >> so don't think that i can't

go do something else. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from florida's ninth district. >> thank you, chairman. this friday, we will see the 67th launch -- a record number of watches in central florida at cape canaveral as space x watches a rocket. we can cad launches by the end of this year and 100 going into 2024. add in major weather events like hurricanes, which we sometimes get in central florida, efficiency is critical. otherwise, you could start piling up. as you all know, all too well, fcc approval is required for these launches, to allow these companies to communicate with their rockets.

i was proud to introduce the launch medications act, which, thanks to the support of the chairman and others. it past the house. the senate passed another version to streamline the fcc permit process. and the special for this process. i appreciate the fcc starting the rulemaking efforts and for working with us on this. chairwoman rosenworcel, how important is streamlining this process? should the law pass, are you prepared to implement it? >> absolutely. i appreciate you championing this issue. this biz economy is growing. the united states is in the lead. i have seen it myself with the nasa measure down at kennedy space center. we are launching into our skies. every one of them is a nailbiting experience. they should have regular and routine inspections. we did adopt a rule for access and the 2.4 gigahertz band. >> we appreciate those efforts. i just wanted to recognize the

congressional caucus strongly supported the nomination of anna gomez. we are proud that you decided to serve on the fcc. the fact that you were born in orlando, they gives us a strong kinship. we have issues of disinformation with voting rights, public health, government programs that run rampant in spanish and text messages and to be in spanish. commissioner gomez, what do you think the fcc's role is to combat this information, the importance of this work, and the importance of resources and what we need to do to continue to make sure that people get reliable information and keep government crimson voting rights and things like that? >> thank you very much. i really do appreciate the support. i may proud floridian, as well.

this information is a significant problem, particularly for the latin community. i am listening and i am open to ideas of ways to combat the problem. in particular, how to promote media and digital literacy among spanish speaking communities. it is grounded in the fcc's responsibility to the constitution and first amendment law. and so i would love to work with your office to figure out what they need to address. >> it is a careful balance, but it is one that the fcc definitely has a role in. commissioner starks, i appreciate your ambien ship of the acp. a lot of my colleagues have already talked about this today, so i did want to pivot to your interest in securing our networks, which, when you look at solar winds back in the

day, where the federal government got hacked under the trump administration and we had the colonial pipeline incident more recently, securing our nation's networks is critical. another chairwoman mentioned a $3 million shortfall. it would be great to hear your concerns about that, elaborate on written reports to make sure we have trustworthy equipment. >> absolutely. thank you for the question. on this in particular, there is such a shortfall. we need to make sure that we are funding this. a lot of rural networks are operating on a thin budget. for them to take $.40 on the dollar is problematic. even more problematic would be if they don't actually execute on this. this is national security at issue. and a number of these dish we have already seen around military bases, there are a myriad number of issues here.

this is mission critical. >> we want to get you that funding so you can do this amazing bipartisan work. last but not least, a.m. radio, i've gotten in my car to get information because everything else went down. so it's very important to keep access to a.m. radio for floridians. with that, yelled back. >> the chair now recognizes the gentleman from tennessee's 13th district for questions. >> thank you for bringing together this hearing. to our commissioners for giving time to be here. we must ensure that the fcc is working with congress to organize the right policies to spur innovations in this industry. if not, it could be detrimental.

chairwoman rosenworcel, as you might know, i have introduced the 5g sale act which would give the fcc authority to process the applications that have been pending for over a year, that were submitted after the 2.5 gigahertz auction. i was pleased to see that you recently wrote to several of my colleagues that these bills would give the fcc the authority to issue the remaining 2.5 gigahertz licenses. i'm hopeful that the 5g sale act will pass the house and become law very shortly. when it does, can you commit to devoting the resources and time necessary to process the application expeditiously? >> absolutely. i want to thank you for the work on this bill. you are going to hopefully expedite it once you have it. >> thank you. my hope is that we can work with our colleagues to restore the fcc's general spectrum auction authority to maintain the u.s. wireless leadership.

the ntia released a spectrum strategy directing the story of 2700 megahertz of spectrum for potential repurposing. chairwoman. you have said that over 20 million households will lose access to broadband chairwoman, you have said that over 20 million households will lose access to broadband if we do not fund acp. do you know how many of these households paid for broadband prior to the acp program? spee02 own to be clear that the acp program does not ask providers to ask that question of them. >> don't you think that's an important piece of information before we assume the 20 million households will lose that? don't we have an obligation to assess how many individual households will be assessed before we use those numbers? >> let me follow up and say that we asked the universal service admission company to do a survey on it. about 20 to 22% previously had

it. we had some problems identifying how to determine that with carriers. and also, we have people who set of new households who are eligible for this program like with pell grant so the numbers in this environment fluctuate a lot. >> but those numbers are incredibly important. i think before using the 20 million number, and you just elicited that it might be 20 or 22% less. i think it is important that we have the capability to understand the impact of how that process will continue, the financial impact, and the personal impact. i look forward for the clarification so we can assess more clearly how many actual households will be impacted by this. additionally, i would like to ask, what role the fcc played in the development of ntia's national spectrum strategy? >> i am in regular contact with ntia, as you might know.

we signed a memorandum of understanding with the ntia. the fcc had not updated that for 15 years. we have been brought into these discussions repeatedly. >> did they follow your recommendations? >> a lot of these conversations were back and forth. i would like everyone to move faster, have a bigger pipeline in general, because i think that the commercial spectrum activity has played a really big role in our wireless leadership, but we do have -- would you have identified bands now that we want to study for future commercial activity. that is a start we could deftly is the return of our spectrum authority and pressure from this congress to keep at it as we study those bands. >> would you pardon this coordination, and if not, what changes would you propose to be included in these strategies? >> i was not part of it. if there is one change i would make, i would've had the spectrum plan free up more than zero megahertz of spectrum.

i put out a spectrum plan in march of 2000 to know that identifies specific frequency bands and the amount of megahertz within those bands and it's certain by which the fcc should auction it or make it available. that is what is missing from the administrations national spectrum strategy. >> thank you. chairwoman, the fcc has proposed opening the upper 12 gigahertz band for commercial wireless use. however, that band was not included in the national spectrum strategy that was rolled out a few weeks ago. what is the status of that proceeding? >> no problem. we make sure it was not included in the strategy so that no one would continue to study it. if congress restored our authority, we would proceed to auction on that reasonably quickly. >> thank you all, commissioners and chairwoman for being here today. mr. chairman, yelled. >> thank you to the gentleman. the time has expired.

the chair, before he recognizes the gentle lady from california 16th district, just want to say, publicly here, at the committee that with your announcement of your pending retirement -- we are going to have you for 13 more months. you have been a joy to work with all these years that i have been on this committee. thank you very much for your service to this subcommittee, and we will recognize you for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it's very generous of you. i feel the same way. i've been on this committee since my second term in congress. so when i exit at the end of next year, i will have served 30 years on this subcommittee. it has been a joy. and the reason i say that is because i have seen such progress that the united states of america has made in the area of telecommunications, the

internet, so much, and now, we are at the advent of ai. to the commissioners, it is wonderful to see you. it's always special in the full commission comes to testify. so welcome. into the newest commissioner, she is the first and only armenian latina to serve as a commissioner. so we are very proud that you joined the commission and grateful for the experience that you have had and that you are going to apply. to the chairwoman, when you made your opening statement, you listed 12 issues that the commission is working on. bravo to you and the entire commission. it really is a spectacular honor roll of issues that needs to be addressed. it's going to strengthen our systems and continue, i believe, america's leadership, when it comes to telecommunications. i have been a net neutrality champion for over 15 years.

i think something that was left out when it is being discussed here is that, yes, states stepped in. california did it in a major way. i think for those that are detractors of this policy, which i think is an excellent one, spend a few minutes examining that leadership. it didn't damage anything. in fact, it protected the consumers and the people of a nationstate, the largest nationstate in our country. so there's a lot to be appreciated about the policy. obviously, i could go on and on. i want to go back to this. i wasn't intending to, but i'm going to for the following reasons. when we take our oath of

office, our top responsibility is our national security. and that is what that policy is all about. i don't take a backseat to anybody on this issue. i spent almost a decade on the house intelligence committee. i know firsthand why we need this replaced. i authored legislation with the gentleman from louisiana now, the majority leader of the house, mr. scalise on this issue, and i played with the fcc under the last administration over and over and over again for the commission to take this issue up. we cannot afford to have any kind of foothold by the likes of huawei and zte . do you want to

finish that? >> you can go on. i-you have two minutes. >> okay. well, thank you. let me go to the issue of domestic violence and legislation that congresswoman custer and myself of the safe connections act, i want to thank the commission for the work that you have done on that. i think everyone knows what this represents. no longer all those that have been abused -- where they can be monitored or controlled. on the robo calls, commissioner carr and commissioner nathan simington, did you support that to recover unpaid penalties for robo call violations?

>> thank you, congresswoman, for your leadership on this. i like a lot of the ideas he put forward, but to increase the effectiveness of the fcc enforcement efforts. thank you for your work. >> i like to thank you for your work on this. the more expeditiously we can respond against them and punish providers, the better. >> i think the fcc would become the most popular agency if we can read the scourge of robo calls in our country. we hear that from her constituents all the time. what are the impacts of the expiration of the auction authority, and do they worsen the longer this goes on? and does anybody -- chairwoman.

>> the fcc in the united states have led the world in wireless policy. we have put more airwaves out there for innovators to build and make services accessible. we have had this authority for 30 years. we raised $233 billion for the u.s. government doing it. it's a tremendous tool. it is expiring as of march 9th of this year. we shouldn't go a day longer without having this tool. it is something we use for our wireless leadership domestically and globally. >> well, i've exceeded my time. i will submit more questions. i will submit my questions to you. thank you for your important service and work. i hope the next time you come that 12 out of 12 are done. with that, i will yield back. >> thank you. the gentlelady's time has expired. we not recognize the gentleman from the florida second

district. five minutes for questions. >> thank you very much. i said earlier this year that we need a path forward for american commercial enterprises to work with china's rapid technological development. as well as china's digital companies huawei are heading towards dominance. if they win the 5g competition to develop software for the next generation, i am worried that the chinese communist party will use that against us in all sectors, energy, health, transportation, everything. this is the risk we take if we don't make more spectrum resources available for commercial use in the united states, and immediately. every person in this room should be concerned about what that means for our national security and economic success of generations of americans to

come. commissioner carr, number of countries, allies and adversaries are making so substantially more mid band spectrums available for use in the united states. is it even possible for the united states to achieve global 5g usage if we lack hundreds of megahertz of mid band spectrum compared to other countries? >> are spectrum leadership is part and parcel of our geospatial leadership. we drank 13 out of 15 leading markets when it comes to licensed matt benning. you look at china in particular, for over 700 megahertz behind. this is why i was so disappointed by the administration spectrum strategy. it provides no path for closing that gap, and that is a big problem. >> thank you very much. i share the concern over the rules, particularly when the incorporate entities that are not engaged in the professional broadband services like tower companies and contractors.

rather than helping this, i fear that these will encourage litigation over deployment and while american lawyers sit in court litigating over fairness documents, trenin will continue to deploy rapidly. commissioner simington, did you agree with my dismal assessment? >> i, congressman. i know that china is a country that is famously known for having note net neutrality and practices all kinds of digital discrimination and that doesn't seem to be impacting their economic growth. nervously, we don't want any negative policies towards the american publishing. on the other hand, it's not good to me what the path is from a regulatory direction right now. with the economic growth, that china is rising with 5g. >> thank you very much. instead of playing politics, i think our companies can be better served by using the market-based approach. as i wrote my op-ed regarding

net neutrality because broadband networks have been thriving, with record high investments from private sectors, lower prices for consumers, and strong performance despite the increased use, we have talked about that already. importantly during this time, great strides have been made in making sure that everyone across the united states has access to reliable high-speed internet. this is thanks to a regulatory from that was put in place during our last administration. commissioner carr, do you say to the premise made by some that the current status of the internet is just inherently unfair, and needs more government regulation? >> again, we repealed the title to approach in 2017. there were all sorts of predictions about the end of the internet, a slowdown of the internet, and what happened is the opposite. mobile speeds are up six volt. broadband builders put in

400,000 miles of fiber in 2022 alone. that is a 50% increase in 2016. i want to make one important point. the internet is so valuable. we need to related like a utility. i understand the argument. that's why i'm in this job. but look at the relation that has applied to utility infrastructure and the result it has produced. the american society of civil engineers give -- gives the usair report card for all of its infrastructure. and it's never good. if you look at drinking water, it gets c-. they say if a water main breaks in this country.it's every two minutes. bridges? over 46,000 of them are structurally deficient. pricing? pricing reached twofold for

utility regulated services compared to internet. is there anybody in this room that can look at america's crumbling roads and bridges and say, that is the future that we need for america's broadband infrastructure? i don't think so. >> thank you very much for that insight. i agree. i just had to spend $6000 putting a water system in my private home, so i wish i had been earlier. >> mr. chairman, thank you. >> the gentleman yields back. >> in the chair now recognizes the gentlelady from michigan. from the fifth district for five minutes of questions. >> thank you, mr. chair. thank you, everybody, for being here today. i'm grateful for this opportunity to highlight the important work that this commission is continuing to do in implementing core legislation that has come out of this committee. under the leadership of the chairwoman, the commission has demonstrated a commitment to safeguarding the open internet, investing in accessible and affordable connectivity through the affordable connectivity program, addressing digital discrimination and working to protect seniors from the harm of scams. broadband access remains essential for every american. it is critical that the commission prioritizes equity, accessibility, and fairness. so everyone can participate in

the digital age. >> i'm going to first talk about broadband. in 2019, congress worked together on a bipartisan basis to improve the broadband mapping process. the process was an entirely new one and it made the allocations. the commission just released its third version of the national broadband map and the progress is notable. chairwoman rosenworcel, can you comment on why that is important? can you discuss white corn ending with other agencies to ensure that these maps are accurately identifying areas where broadband services are lacking is important and may be, because i'm having problems with my own people that i live in ann arbor and don't have good internet. can you talk about how we can get the other agencies to cooperate as well?

spoke for a long time, we had really crummy broadband maps. so using the broadband data committee, we took over, and we decided we would identify, house by house, where we could build in this country and where they serve. every sixth -- six months we update those maps. it is really important for this committee. because we have a map that is designed to have information about every covid era. if we update that regularly, we will have the ability to oversee where service is and is not. i would like to continue to talk to you and this committee about how to make sure all the parts of the government, with

broadband programs, from the agricultural department to the congress the firm can report to us of the broadband funding map is kept up-to-date. >> thank you. we are going to run out of time. i want to talk about the acp for a minute. i'm worried about it. all that it really matters. if we are going to have quality in that, i'm going to go to commissioner starks. how dire is it that we extend the acp, what will an extension or not extending it mean for families across the country? >> i think it is extremely vital. in particular, thank you for your work here. i was at a town hall in the denver housing area, where i was talking to 200 people that lived there. >> they were asking and pressing me. this is right when we were using evv and converting it to a $14 billion program.

it was a longer program. it was a bigger fund that we are able to work with. i worry about the households we have if we have to figure out a way to assess this program. >> we are not living in an equitable world. i'm going to a question that is bothering me, which is robocalls. i've been doing work on fraud that seniors are having -- chairwoman rosenworcel, can you discuss how the commission plans to address robo calls and how to hold these people accountable?

our laws and we need to go to court and start collecting them . we need to get at the link secrecy. with all the scammers, we shut them down and there is another one. >> i will yield back. >> the time has expired and now recognizing the gentleman from texas for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. i thought it was some guy calling me over and over again. the commissioner, the fcc did a lot to streamline the permitting process and unfortunately this fcc has not been proactive and

i and can do more. what are the initiatives that the fcc should take to streamline the process itself? >> it is infrastructure reform if that is what you are asking about. we need to take the reforms and carry them over to a wired infrastructure and we can and should do that. the federal government appears to be an impediment and one idea i have put out there with the federal land in the fcc to help coordinate when builders get caught in red tape. there are things we can do and most importantly there is the american broadband deployment act this committee has been working on and commissioner carr has. we go a long way with the

infrastructure built in this country. >> if you working for a day, which would you attack first? >> it the single most important is that broadband deployment act because it covers a lot of ideas. >> chairwoman, pronounce your last name for me. it is long and it can intimidate. >> it is rosenworcel . >> he had a lot there and we reached out to the bureau of land management for discussions for real rural carriers so they don't face impediments when they are on or through rural lands. i think the biggest problem i hear about is on federal land.

we have deadlines for municipalities and states to get back to you in 60 days or 90 days or 150 days. on federal lands, that is 270 days and i don't think we should be asking states the mutagenicity palette is to get back faster than the federal government. there is a mismatch we should be addressing . in the 2012 law which is the middle class jobs creation act, this committee set up a form called form 299 that every federal actor that might be the subject of deployment interest by a communications carrier, they have to file the form. they are not using it to the best of my knowledge. >> let me see if i understand what you are saying. the blm with the bureaucrats can present a problem but there are no bureaucrats in the fcc . >> there are 12 things that we

are doing right at the start. >> it's just a question. >> what i think is important is that we figure out a way to streamline the form because 299 confuses everyone. >> let me go back to one of these acronyms. there is a lot of money spent on the world wide web and the covid program and the upcoming 5g fund just to name a few. by the time all of these are done, are you thinking everything will be hunky-dory and peachy king? those are texas terms. >> what i was talking about was we have to build a broad band funding map so we know what they are doing and if you could help the agencies respond with data you would see there are problems with duplications in

areas we have not reached. >> one thing he talked about too is we should no how many household have the service before we get started and that is a valuable piece of information to identify with how accurate the program is and how well it is funded and if it is money well spent. >> the congress did not require that when they set it up. >> congress has a way of missing things at times. i will yield back. >> the chair recognizes that lady from illinois's second district for questions. >> thank you for holding this important hearing and i want to thank the commissioners for their testimony and i want to go to commissioner gomez. having access to the internet is not a luxury but rather a necessity in today's modern world. for underserved and

rural communities, that is one of my top priorities since coming to congress. we know regardless that if you live in a district represented by democrats or republicans, the acp has more than 17 million households with broadband connections. in my jurisdiction, there are 61,000 households enrolled which is a fifth of the households in my district. however, it is estimated that roughly 60,000 additional households in my district are eligible but have not enrolled. to be sure everybody eligible is aware of the program i introduced the access to broadband act which would make the states and for medicaid enrollees and low income residents of their potential eligibility for the lifeline program. you have lessons learned yet from the fcc grant

program that year and pinion would provide funding to the states for additional community outreach in furthering the objectives of those programs? >> thank you for your work championing this program in understanding how important the outreaches. the fcc has run 800 to 900 events to advertise this program. what i have learned is if you get local people in the community that people trust, they are more likely to sign up . the more quickly we can push outreach to trusted authorities and local institutions, the more people will get connected. >> thank you. commissioner starks, would you like to add? >> the more you can target and specifically go after the household you are looking for and push the messaging and demonstrate deeply into those

communities, the better your results and i strongly support your work. >> thank you. now back to the importance of local origination programming which shows the amount of emotional trust in the news is the belief that news organizations care and are reliable yet more than twice as many americans report high emotional trust in local news rather than national news. i was encouraged to see the fcc announced a proposal that if adopted would begin have policy goals supporting local journalism and broadcasters to meet the needs of local communities. chair rosenworcel, which you explain why it is important to communities across the country and how consumers are harmed if newspapers as well as radio and tv do not receive the support

to meet the needs of the local people? >> you know that news is changing and we've lost newspapers and local news is the news we trust. we needed to make decisions about our lives in our country and ark support of the local news with the shoe leather journalism where we live . what i decided was we should make sure broadcasters that have the capacity for locally originated content should be able to produce and get speed through our model. this is something we did in the children's television act and it is a viable way forward and it is a great way to support local news. >> sneaking in a question and recognizing the importance of being a good steward of government resources, how would you make sure the funds stretch as far as possible to make sure 5g is available where it's not currently available.

>> it is a tower that will actually serve people and it was introduced in 2020. when i took over, what i thought was important was take the wireless data from the broad band data act to inform where we distribute the funds. we decided to have a rulemaking to identify how to incorporate the new data where wireless is deployed and where it is not in make sure the 5g fund uses it when it decides who gets funding and where. >> thank you, i yield back. >> yielding back to the chair recognizing georgia's 12 district with five minutes for questioning. >> thank you for being with the commission today. earlier this year, along with 100 colleagues sending letters to automakers about the removal of a.m. radios on certain models. virtually every public safety

expert has attested is a critical for emergency warning and could put millions at risk. i hope the commission will seek ways to allow americans to receive a.m. reception in vehicles. i would like to stress the need for our country to execute on the licensed structure pipeline. everyone in this room knows that commercial innovation needs to happen and i expect the administration and congress will elevate this issue moving forward. i am pleased the fcc is refreshing the record on the 5g fund but i am concerned the fcc is prioritizing areas that already have access to next- generation technologies like 4g instead of areas with no services whatsoever. in my district, there are many areas that do not have consistent cell service. why

have you decided on this prioritization? >> to be clear, we have not decided on the prioritization. i appreciate your point of view and i note that commissioner simington has similar concerns and we will look at how to proceed . >> commissioner simington , we you please comment? >> sure. with the 5g fund, there is a possibility of overbuilding at times when parts of america such as parts of your district that you identify do not have reliable service. it is important to point out that areas already supplied by high-speed 4g there is little advantage to overbuild with 5g relative to spending the money to open it to all americans. in my opinion, we should not be doing it. >> absolutely and thank you for your work on our behalf. i understand the programming

could impact the 5g fund has some deployments could lay the towers for 5g. chair rosenworcel bank commissioner carr, should we wait before deploying the fund ? >> you make a point that wired versus wireless is important in rural areas. we asked the questions in rulemaking and we will be happy to up date you when we get comments and when we move forward. >> thank you for the question and i think what is needed here is a national coordinating strategy. there is a plan and i think that is what is necessary. all of the funding for these areas and $800 billion has been made available since covid.

appropriated by congress and agencies. there are certain 133 program spread throughout agencies with a lack of coordination right now and that is a problem. >> i think there needs to be accountability. how much are we spending to deploy broadband in the rural areas and why do we have so many? >> if i could make a pitch one more time for the help of this committee to help with the broadband funding map. that is what you are describing . >> you recently released a third iteration of the new national broadband map which was required by the broadband data act. you note the number of unserved homes and businesses fell by one point 1 million. you know if this decline is due to buildout versus corrections to

the map like corrections to the number of overall locations? >> good question and it's a mix of different things with increases in buildout. if we get information from our colleagues with the broadband programs and broadband funding, we will have more detail over time. >> can you talk about what you are doing to verify mobile coverage in these maps? >> yes. we have a system where we collected data from all wireless carriers about where they serve. it's important and they used to file different models, all of them. on top of that, we have an fcc mobile app that everyone of us can download. when you test your speed, it reports to my agency and a privacy protected way to see if you get the service that carriers promise they are delivering. >> i would say in georgia we are ahead of other states and trying to get that done. i have a few other questions that i

will submit for the record mr. chairman. thank you for your time, expertise and service. >> your time has expired and the chair recognizes the chair lady from texas for seven minutes. >> thank you for convening today 's hearing to discuss the many important topics we have been covering here today. i want to thank everyone in the witnesses testifying. welcome to your first energy and commerce oversight hearing and i am grateful for your participation and insights here today and for the full commission here today. many have touched on the new proposed rulemaking for proposed broadband internet tied to a common carrier and there've been several questions around that. mostly focused around net neutrality and i want to shift the focus to

another context where there is broadband service for consumers . chairwoman rosenworcel, can you say how it would strengthen public safety communications and network resiliency which is a big issue for us along the gulf coast lichen taxes. thinking about how it may impact the commission's reporting and ability to track after a serious incident. >> our network outage reporting system is only mandatory when there are outages around the country. the agency only collects outage information with long distance voice service. let me emphasize in the modern age digital economy, we should not be collecting data on long-distance

. we should be collecting the data and during the pandemic we collected nor data on where broadband is and is not reliable based on antidotal evidence. one place on the outside of detroit had a 45 day outage during the pandemic when we were asked to go online and be online for everything. we did not collect data because we were focused on long- distance voice outages and there's nothing modern about that at all. it is a threat to our economy and public safety. >> thank you very much and i want to follow up on another question kind of in that same vein. the last time you were in front of the subcommittee, we talked a little bit about the ongoing notice of proposed rulemaking for language alert. there are more than 140 languages spoken in my district and houston. ensuring access to

emergency communications especially for emergencies with national attention in recent years. we are concerned in this is a top priority. can you share on the results of the rulemaking and the actions. >> of four 140 languages is a lot in those wireless emergency alerts are incredible and when the deep goes off in our pocket, it tells us about disastrous weather or an amber alert. people who do not speak english or spanish have not been able to respond to those. in new york, asian communities did not get the information they needed during flooding. we will require the alerts in 13 languages. we are basing this off of the template used in new york and i'm confident we can make it work and we are working with carriers to make it happen. it will lead to a better

understanding of vulnerabilities and to make us safer when something occurs. >> 13 languages a great start and i hope we cover more people and we will be able to work with you in uncovering additional modes of communication to ensure everyone can get those alerts. the work you do is incredibly important and i want to thank you for your work that you are doing. mr. chair, i yield back. >> the gentle lady yields back and i recognized the gentleman from ohio's 12 district for five minutes. >> think you. it's good to see the panel here in my first question is for carr . under the commissioner, ohio has become a leader in workforce development and telecommunications. a unique collaboration with the infrastructure to create ohio's

5g sector. it services universities and colleges and career centers to inspire broadband technology technicians. commissioner carr, i know you have had opportunities to climb towers and appreciate the challenges that employers face in finding broad band professionals. can you comment about how congress is working to create partnerships like the one we see in ohio. >> thank you for the question. the work we see in ohio with workforce development as a model for the country. it's the same idea i have been working on with organizations across the country. you can take a community college instead of a 9-12 week course. you can teach climbing in classroom skills to land a good paying job in the tower industry and just 9-12 weeks.

i think we can see that work across the country and what we need to continue to invest in. the third leg of this is workforce. >> thank you very much. my next question is for madam chair rosenworcel .. i would like to discuss utility poles. a pole attachment was mentioned and i didn't know what that was until 2012 when i got into the legislature and found out what it meant. broad plan deployment is grinding to a halt because of utility poles. it is clear some believe it is not the business of the fcc to weigh in on this issue while others believe that it is. the disputes are occurring and many of my constituents continue to have no access to

broadband. we need to find solutions to this issue rather than continue to go back and forth. chairwoman, just last week you noted the commission would consider rules regarding the polls during an open meeting. how are the rules different? i like your smile. >> i appreciate your affection for talking about the polls. it really matters because we want to build broadband in the country and a lot of providers need access to the polls. we have proposed putting in place when my colleagues vote in december is an accelerated docket to resolve disputes between utilities and new poll attach errors. we need to understand which polls are in position to be replaced anyway

by the utilities. when a broadband provider tries to purchase them, they don't get sacked with the cost of replacement. >> the communications act is a provision that governs the polls . 23 of 24 states have opted out of the rules. even if we have national policies at the fcc, the states are doing their own thing and we need to figure out a way to harmonize across the country a little more and by harmonizing we can streamline and lower the cost of access. >> commissioner carr, would you like to comment ? >> i will take a good look at it and open to do potentially more. we could look at putting some type of framework around large scale requests. that is a framework we need to have with the massive requests to gain access to the polls. there is something we can do there in the short term and that would be great. and forgetting the polls replaced, the whole owner

should bear somewhere near the cost of zero dollars. we can look at that more in the short run. >> i am going to run out of time so i will save my last question. thank you for being here today. >> yielding back the balance of his time, you are one of the few who yield back, my friend from ohio. >> and recognizing the gentleman from idaho to ask his questions. >> thank you and thank you for being here today to answer our questions. >> along with digital discrimination which was proved by the commission. there is a proposal to add reporting and administrative burdens on all isps regardless of size or location. idaho is home to many small broadband providers in

rural areas. we are talking about businesses with 20 employees or less. these areas are costly to serve in these providers already have reports on their buildup with the fcc process. if they receive universal service fees, they filed a ports for the use act. have you considered exempting small broadband providers from this proposed set of requirements? >> i appreciate the question and we are running rulemaking which is one thing we want to learn about in our records. i want to be clear the obligation to file reports was something intended to help the providers have a safe harbor for reinforcement on action. how that applies to a small carrier versus a big one is a complex western and i think we

need to look at the records because it is a greater burden. >> please consider that not all providers are created he will. please consider that. >> understood. >> mr. carr, still on the topic of small broadband providers competing against the larger firms. the economy of scale is a big factor in this business and that includes getting hit with requirements for davis- bacon minimum wage. those are in the program, by the way. mr. carr, did the fcc universal service programs have this requirement. >> i have spent time in north idaho and i have talked firsthand to the smaller providers who are doing the work firsthand and facing a regulatory onslaught from

washington right now. we need to look at a way to make sure we are not putting an undue burden on them. >> currently do the u.s. programs require that now? >> the programs? >> david davis-bacon, for example. >> there are labor related regulations that do not apply in the fccs universal context and i think that will be a disincentive for the small providers. >> okay, so the proposal in the digital discrimination rules could open up the broadband industry to keep them from undermining fair competition and that is favorable to the larger broadband providers.

mr. carr, could you just share your take on that and discuss the impacts of these rules from your vantage point and how these rules impact smaller providers? >> there is a lot of talk about the big cable providers but the reality is there are thousands and thousands of small mom-and- pop providers. when the fcc impose the title to regulations the last time around, we had dozens of small isps saying that their cost of capital goes up in expenses for lawyers and consultants goes up and they pull back as a result. they don't introduce innovative services as an example. again, covid-19 was an example. it with the european levels with the heavy-handed infrastructure, that should've settled the case right there.

>> one more quickly if i make. he testified in june and you mentioned price controls similar to what we are adopting with monopolies to underline a more open and competitive market. with these rules lead to a concentrated market giving the fcc potentially more power? >> there is regulation in the title to proposal and in the equity order that was proposed. if you go to the market and you charge a price of $50, the fcc can come in and say it's too high. that is rate regulation. it is in the order we just adopt did. >> thank you mr. carr. my time has expired . >> the time has expired recognizing the gentleman from tennessee. >> thank you and i want to

start with you commissioner carr. on page 9 of your testimony, you said the biden harris administration has made it available for commercial use and you called it a spectrum plan and making it available for commercial use especially mid band is crucial for economic security. the spectrum strategy requires no spectrum identified for auction and only more studies and you have said many more years of studies. how do you ensure these studies don't lead to nowhere? >> the country needs a real spectrum strategy and in 2021, i identified specific frequency bands where we need to take

action and that is a spectrum analysis. it's a classic washington move. rather than making the hard decisions, they kick the can down the road. on average, we are 400 megahertz behind 15 other countries at this time. with 13 out of 15, over 700 megahertz behind china right now we we need to turn things around. we don't need to wait for the biden administration to tell us what to move on. we can identify the spectrum bands and move on it. >> why are we not moving when we need to move? >> the digital discrimination rulemaking is brought in terms of what the sec might ask consider discriminatory and rural broadband providers are concerned if they do not provide services in all unserved locations which is really impossible in a rural

mountainous region. they could be characterized as discriminatory. you are right they are not large funds and do not have large internet providers. what can they do to provide the necessary clarity around these rules? they just need clarity. >> we need to a reverse course from the fcc and i think the course will reverse the decision. you are right, if you decide to build anywhere, you are liable because you didn't build everywhere. >> how do you determine that when you walk in? it's like any other bureaucracy. >> you can reverse course at any point in time and if you get one, you can't rely on that. >> yes, exactly. >> and you talk about the broadband 5g build out?

>> large-scale fiber builders were aiming to cover many millions of homes in 2022 and they fell short. after wyoming, there was a yard outside of the provider's facility with antennas and everything needed but they couldn't get the permits. we are not streamlining permitting and that is like stepping on the gas and the brakes at the same time. the fcc can take the reforms on the small cells which attributed to 253 and 322. we can do it more into the context of wired infrastructure that would help. >> thank you. mr. carr , the reason for title

ii classification. we have never heard of that in the net neutrality debates in the markets showed note justification for market broadband reclassification and the committee is reaching to try to find any justification, i would say, for regulating the internet. help me understand the connection between an open internet a national security? >> this goes back to 2017 when we were told all sorts of stories that we need title ii or the internet will slow down and we need it or we will be charge per website. none of that came to pass that they say there is a reason to come up with that again and so we invoke national security. there is nothing i have seen at all that there is a gap in national security that can only be solved by title ii. if there is something like this, let's come to congress and get a shot that deals with this. we should not be dealing with the entire internet ecosystem.

there is nothing i've been briefed on or been made aware of . >> these agencies with lots of authority, it cannot be that we are exposed to a foreign government but for the fact that in 1930 law invest. >> with that, i yelled back. >> the time has expired and now recognizing the gentleman from california's third district for questions. >> thank you for being here today and doing our jobs and regulating the industry requires participation by the administration. your presence here today is furthering the relationship and we deeply appreciate it. chair rosenworcel , you, in your opening testified

testimony, you said we need to do a better job of policing fraudulent activity with text messages. that is the most frequent complaint that the fcc receives . until recently, telecommunications company would refer fraudulent texts to financial institutions like banks who were being impersonated so those institutions could share the information with their customers to alert them to fraudulent activity. however, the telecommunications privacy act of 1991 puts restrictions on the telecom's ability to share information. notably a exception for sharing information or potentially unlawful activity. however, some agencies have ceased sharing the information because of a concern that doing so would be in violation of that act. do you believe that the

telecoms have the ability to share information in cases where the consumer has said that a text is fraudulent? >> first off we want to protect consumers from fraudulent activity and i would like more detail about what you are hearing. the problem is fundamental and that is the primary law governing our ability to go after the robo texts and robocalls. the consumer protection act of 1991. 1991 was a long time ago and many exceptions in the law did not apply to the way we use communications today and the way scam artists have evolved their scams. >> we are in agreement on that issue. however, if there is ambiguity in the act that is causing carriers to have angst about sharing, i hope you can commit to providing regulatory

clarity. >> let's follow up because i don't believe we have a petition or action before us and let's figure out how we can solve what you are describing. >> i have heard of cases where telecoms are not sharing information with financial institutions under fear of penalty and knife think we can agree that should not be the case. >> we will get to the bottom of this and i'm happy to work with you on it. >> thank you. >> a number of commissioners mentioned the u.s. cyber trust program. this is a noteworthy and laudable effort to improve security on the internet. people who have heard me talk on this issue no how concerned i am about cyber security threats. when so many daily activities are monitored by these devices. as you have noticed, their proposed

rulemaking is currently open and i wanted to ask you about a section in the npr which is entitled investigation disqualification and enforcement . it says for any noncompliance that we could rely on a combination of enforcement procedures such as show cause orders, relocations, cease and desist orders and penalties. so, i want to clarify. >> sure. >> that sounds like a mandatory program and i think the plan is for it to be voluntary like energy star. >> we wanted to be like energy star that anytime you pick up a device and you see that mark, you know you can trust the device. when we create a voluntary program and incentive to participate, if somebody uses

that and then fraudulently does not abide by the policies. there are different proposals because we want to make sure there are consequences for the bad act there. >> i agree and i want to make sure it does not become a de facto fcc stamp of approval necessary for market entrants. >> if you are a bad actor and put that on your device or service, we want to make sure you have consequence. >> thank you. i was going to ask about the artificial intelligence and i'm out of time so we will leave that for the record. >> the gentleman's time as expired in the chair recognizes california's 29th district. i want to say we are going to miss you on this subcommittee. you have been a great member and has been great working with you. we have had several on

this committee who are leaving the committee in general, but we still have you for 13 months. >> with this, recognizing from california for 29 minutes. >> so everybody understands, this is a good gentleman at a great public service and i am a democrat and he is republican. thank you for sharing that with me and thank you for holding this important hearing today. also ranking member, i appreciate you as well for the good work we've been able to do together. >> first, i would like to communicate -- first i would like to congratulate the fcc for returning to a full commission with the addition or of commercial cut commissioner

anna m. gomez . the fcc commission is amazing and i want to point out i am proud of and respect every single one of you regardless of whatever side of the island what have you. i expect respect your service and appreciate you very much. commissioner gomez is the first latina to serve as an fcc commissioner in over two decades . the commission will be well served by your experience, ms. gomez . you are not there because of affirmative action, you are there because you have earned it, every single one of you. thank you for your service. starting with the topic i have given a lot of attention to this year. the affordable connectivity program which may run out of funds as early as this coming spring.

21 million households depend on this program to access affordable essential broadband and that includes nearly 70,000 families in my district alone. it is on us here in congress to ensure funding does not lapse for the acp . chair rosenworcel, black and brown communities are less like to be connected to the internet which could reduce opportunities for work, learning, political engagement and social engagement. how could the commission's recent efforts with digital discrimination along with other deployment efforts mitigate social inequities in these problems? >> thank you congressman and thank you for your kind words about man my colleagues and back at you. >> it is a committed decision to say we will in the digital

divide in this country. it's like a three legged stool. first you need to funding communities that don't have it, often rural. second, this digital divide has an affordable component. we are going to build the biggest ever serving 22 million households. you can go online for everything . even though we saw affordability and deployment, we need to make sure there is no discriminatory behavior in service. that's what the rules you asked us to put in place do and i think all three are powerful commitments from congress and that fcc to close the digital divide. >> to clarify, this does not impact black and brown communities but it does impact communities across america including poor white communities as well. >> one stunning statistic is people sign up for this program at a higher percentage in rural

communities and urban communities and it's important to show we serve everyone. >> can you describe how acp provides benefits beyond individual households and how it benefits the country one more are connected. >> thank you for your service and for championing this acp service. i sat down in the largest public housing west of the mississippi and she was a force for her community there. you asked about community in particular. it is providing telehealth and education opportunities. the pandemic had a disproportional impact on small businesses which were crushed during the pandemic. the ability of small businesses to survive and come back has

been necessitated by internet connectivity. >> also the suicide crisis high hotline which is available across the country. the commission has been focused on making sure that the call is routed to the nearest call center rather than the area code the person is calling from. i was glad to see the importance of geo-routing. moving forward, how does the agency propose to ensure that callers can reach a geographic crisis center no matter what the carrier? >> now that we have stood up 988 for a crisis line, we need to make sure people get help from someone nearby. we are working with substance abuse and mental health administration at the department of health and human services to make sure their contract can account for this.

if you text for help, we identify which cell tower you get service from and use that to get mental health to you from a nearby location. we are working on it to keep the pressure on for us to get it done. >> thank you. >> time has expired and the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas for five minutes. >> thank you. the last time you were here and i appreciate you being here, we highlighted the need for rural americans. let me know if i'm right on this quote for everyone, everywhere and i could not agree on that more. however, we do have serious concerns about the rules and the heavy-handed approach in the control of the internet service providers. recently, when the fcc finalized the rules that i think you have taken a more

invasive approach to micromanage how the providers function. what i would like to ask is chairwoman, you emphasize broadband equity as well as the universal service fund for your discrimination rules. it appears to be a two-tiered system, why is that? >> we made sure there is a legal presumption. if they are following universal service policies and the rule, they are complying with the digital discrimination rule. we thought for the carriers we would make it easier. >> to the carrier support it? >> absolutely in my colleagues to. >> it is telling that at the last minute the biden administration secured and encouraged to rule the for the fcc to adopt. does the biden

administration want to engage in discrimination and inequity. the biden administration knows these are heavy-handed rules and it will have two in force. they cannot afford to fail and they are trying to maximize the odds by excluding themselves from the rules. meanwhile, all of the providers are stuck. the administration does not want the rules to apply to any program. >> i have a new one. thank you for your service. financial security and title to , congress will act in the nature of protecting the international security. with the rulemaking and what you think about if it is international

security. >> thank you for your work on this in your public service here in previously. you know these issues of national security very well and there is no gap in national security that title 2 was phil. in fact dhs with issues in the communications space has a lot of authority. if there happens to be an issue in our networks, we should come to congress today and congress should fast tracked it today. we should not look at hijacking things in a broadband network and letting it continue for years. it would be incredible if that was true. in fact, it is not credible and i think what is going on here is that we are grasping at straws and new justification to support title

2 itself . >> we are talking about overreaching overregulation in the heavy-handed approach. to change gears on something -- chairwoman, thank you for your comments about five years ago. >> five years ago? >> you will remember this one because you tweeted and 28 teen under the trump administration that it is time for transparency and the fcc needs to publish a calendar with what should be auctioned and when. >> sure. >> has there been a calendar proposed? >> i think you no this committee passed the act a while ago for them to produce a calendar. >> you have a calendar? >> yes, on it annualized basis but just to be clear, we cannot act and produce in auction and

make it happen. >> i note that carr provided a calendar and 2021 and 2022 . >> i will tell you what i'd like to do. >> you have a calendar and we you show that to us? does that show what will be auctioned off? >> we produced an annual calendar at the request of this committee but because we do not have auction of authority, i cannot plan for auctions using appropriated funds for things we are not authorized. >> to compete with china, we need to see which bands in which timeframe. >> if i could make it up right now, you give me my authority back and i have a bunch sitting at the fcc. i have a proceeding in the upper portion.

>> the gentleman's time has expired. the child now recognizes the gentle lady from florida's third district for five minutes. >> thank you. let's keep the fun going. you hit on the question i was going to ask and that's okay. commissioner carr, would you like to follow up on the comments regarding the calendar and give us your take on that? >> >> let's put it forward by particular years and move forward. if we did that, it would help congress understand the need to pass the authority than the other way around. >> chairwoman rosenworcel, i'm going to put your your last name so i'm not even going to try it . the secretary of

commerce is required to coordinate with the fcc. have you seen the dod report? >> that's a good question, i have asked. >> you haven't seen it yet? >> not yet. >> i have asked everybody on this committee to requested because the law says we are supposed to auction the spectrum and i have to prepare for an auction by november of 2020 for and we collectively have to come together to figure out what we will do with that obligation in the report at the same time. >> you might have better luck asking the white house and the

dod for that report then congress with what we find ourselves in. have you provided input on the timing of the auction. i no that you mentioned the design and the feasibility? >> i cannot asked my step to plan for something if we don't know the details. >> we should just march over to the pentagon right now. >> that's a joke. >> i wanted to follow up on the issue, specifically with the fcc broadband map. should it be used for all broadband programs ? >> we are using that map to identify where service and is not for wired and wireless

broadband for every location in the country and we are taking that data and putting it onto a separate map called the broad band funding map. it is important and everyone on this committee should care about it. we have lots of broadband money from coven era legislation. everyone needs to report to me in the same data format with why we covered this area and not this area and it looks like we have duplication and what we do about it? to get reports for the accurate broadband funding map, it would be doing a lot of good for oversight. >> i had an idea you were going there and i will keep this going. do you believe we need , lop cooperation from the usda? >> let me be clear. i noticed we had a lot of programs that with the mapping data we did. with the department of agriculture in the department of treasury and the department

of congress with the biggest funding programs. we have put it on paper and we are working together. we are making sure they continue to report to us so the map is accurate. now that you told me you sit on the agriculture committee, we will follow-up. >> i look forward to it. >> and with the privacy and data security requirements, in your view, is there authority whatsoever to reimpose a portion instead of the whole order? >> no, it does not. the decision was to ensure a level playing field across all energy sectors when it came to privacy and they should not be working unlawfully to disrupt that. >> in the home stretch, chairwoman, one thing everybody is concerned about and that is ai. with the notice of inquiry on the advancing the federal

sector usage, the inquiry focused on the assured machine learning in a i for spectrum management. how do you plan to use the information gathered particularly as it relates to artificial intelligence and what are the next steps in this space ? i'm going a little bit over the time. >> artificial intelligence, we can have pattern identification on a large scale and take resources like the airways and figure out more efficient ways to use them. there is artificial intelligence and machine learning with the network. it is fascinating and i look forward to reading the pack record. >> the time has expired and see no other members wishing to ask questions today, i insert in

the record that documents on the documents list. without objections, so ordered. i remind members they have 10 business days to submit questions and respond to questions. they should submit that by december 14th and i would like to thank the fcc commissioners for being here with us today. we appreciate you being here at the subcommittee hearing. the subcommittee is adjourned if there are no objections. [indistinct chatter]