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podcast. find us on our free mobile app, or wherever you get your podcasts. c-span has you were unfiltered view of politics. welcome back. i'm joined by the ceo. welcome to the show. can you tell us about your mission and your history?>> we were founded by justice sandra day o'connor. she had a real vision for how important civic education was for our country. she had served in the legislature, she had been a civil servant. she had been in government, and she was appointed to be a judge. she had experienced issues from a lot of different places. she understood how interrelated these things are, the public,

the legislature, and the judiciary, all of that is one system of governance that relies on people, it is called self governance. she realized there had been less and less civic education being done since she was a child to when she began this, after she stepped down in 2006. in 2009, she said we've got to do it better, we've got to do it differently, we've got to put kids in the center of this, we've got to make it important. she became a standardbearer for the cause of civic education as a requirement to a healthy democracy. that is the mission that we have been on. we lost her, unfortunately, in december of last year, and we have taken up her mental.

this is now the largest civic education site in the country, and we have assembled a coalition of 330 organizational members, and we made the case that we need to invest in civic education. the situation is difficult and dangerous for the country. we do not have sufficient, or quality civic education. it is the least invested subject in schools. you know, we see the results.>> justice o'connor testified before congress back in 2012, with the importance of civic education. let's hear more.>> we have learned, to our dismay, american students, when tested on math and science, they are not doing as well as students

of any other age. this distresses us, our country is advanced in math and science, and we don't want to see our students lagging behind. that has promoted an effort to increase education efforts, and it has resulted in the dropping of civic courses. there are only so many hours in a day. schools have to concentrate on something, they tend to do more on math and science, and less on civics. i would like to be sure that we continue to teach civics to students, as they go through. my own concentration has been at the middle school level. by then, the brain is formed. young people are eager to learn, they are receptive, and they get it. it is not too early to start. i think it is important.

it's important for students to know how things work. they want to be part of it.>> can you talk a little bit more about how you all are funded, and who you are specific to working with on a regular basis?>> first of all, it's lovely to hear her voice, and she is right on, as usual. we have picked up where justice o'connor left off. we have formed a set policy team, to advocate for more civic education. we now work at the high school level, and the elementary level. we believe that civic education

can be a real force for good, in our country, if we invest in it. i think this problem that justice o'connor pointed to, by pushing the importance of one discipline at the expense of another, which is completely understandable. it really doesn't work, these things reinforce each other. at the core of it, every child will be a community member when they come out of high school. they may not all go to college, but we all have to live together, and as justice o'connor pointed out, they want to know how to behave, how to be, how to solve problems in the community, and at the state and local level. we try to prepare students with knowledge, skills, and the disposition to solve problems in the community. give us a baselevel understanding. how has education changed over time, as justice o'connor was

referencing?>> justice o'connor referenced her upbringing, where she got much more civics, there was a government class that was required of everyone. everyone remembers schoolhouse rock, from a certain age, and they can sing it. that started to crater away. there are different versions of it. sometimes around - - sometime around the 1960s, the investment in civic education started to decrease time in the classroom, which is really the best measure for whether or not students are getting civics or not, we are done to 10 minutes at elementary school for social studies per week, and that is really low. it is not possible to provide a high quality civic education, in that little time. when you don't get it in elementary school, you can't build on it in middle school, and you get to high school and

you really don't have the base for conversations about issues that are relevant to your lives. it's a question of rebuilding the entire sequence. what do we talk about? civics is a little bit different than other disciplines. it is a little bit more like a sport. if i want to fix my school, if i do not like the amount of money or resources that my school gets, i must go to the state, and the local school board. there is almost no control over education, with some exceptions. you need to understand how these things are governed. you need to know that there are three branches of government, how they work together, those kind of things. you need skills. and the kind of skills you need is different today from what it was even 20 years ago. one of the skills that is

critical is to be able to talk people you disagree with. we need to understand that democracy is a system designed for disagreement. that's what happens when people try to solve problems, we disagree. that's not a bug, that's a feature of the system, and that means we need to be able to listen to each other, to find common agreement, we need to be civil, we need to have the structures to discuss things. learning how to do that and practicing how to do that, today, one of the most important sets of skills is detecting misinformation and disinformation. it will be a surprise to no one in the audience, we have a digital democracy, so the traditional channels for absorbing information about politics is no longer the case. most young people get their

news from social media. there's a level of disinformation because it is no longer curated, and that puts an emphasis on the consumer, to understand what is going on. there are simple, clear ways to teach people about how to consume digital information, and you can get much better at consuming truth, if you are trained. that should be done at scale, for every student. the third one is disposition. we belong to one community. we belong to communities we live in, we are part of it, and the sense that you need to be involved, you need to be part of the solution, it is really important for students to have, they need to practice that, they need to practice service in the community, whether it is

a community garden, whether it is solving for accessibility issues on the school grounds, whether it is about providing meals, whatever it is, we need a way to have students feel like they are part of something larger than themselves.>> i want to go to some statistics from the public policy center. they do an annual civic knowledge survey, and the results are often a metric of how we are doing in that regard. we've got some numbers, in the latest one, 66% of respondents could not name all three branches of government. 10% could name two branches of government, 7% could only name one branch of government. 17% could not name any branch of government. the civic knowledge survey released annually, to celebrate

constitution day, and also finds two thirds of americans can name all three branches of government. those 10% can name two branches. this was fielded in a year of high profile events that propelled the working government into the daily news cycle. this is a natural representative survey of adults, not children. i wonder what you think the impact is, for that level of knowledge in the united states.>> this is a serious, serious problem, and it has been the result of policies we've had in civic education, for decades. we have invested in the past before, a recent increase was five cents, compared to $50 per year in science. science is the least invested subject compared to reading, and math. it is not a surprise, and it is

a direct consequence of the choices we've made allocating resources. i want to get people to understand how these things are tight. if americans don't understand how the system of governance works, then they are less likely to understand how to think about policy issues, and they are more likely to think of policies as some kind of entertainment, as opposed to something that will have an impact on their lives. i think the time has come for us to put these things together, we absolutely must invest in civic knowledge, civic skills, the civic disposition of americans, if we will have leadership and governance that we deserve.>> i want to get to our colors soon. i want to read a bit more from the survey, which said in 2023,

nearly six in 10, 59% of respondents with at least some high school education said they had taken a sip course in high school that focused on the judicial system. a third of those with at least some college education said that they had taken a college course that focused on the u.s. system of government, and the constitution. this gets back to what you are mentioning, only certain people having access to civic education.>> there is an enormous gap in equity and accessibility. some areas get a lot more, some school districts have big clubs, they have ms. it's to museums and local historical sites. these are all things we know work. if you look at the data from

the national assessment for education progress, which is thought of as the most serious standard for achievement by, the last set of results showed that students in history and civics perform at the lowest level. 22% of students are proficient in civics. this is a consistent picture, if you start looking deeper, those students who get quality education, meaning that the teacher is well trained to teach civics, they do a lot better. the reality of the picture gets a little complicated. it is true, americans in general have not gotten enough civics. students today definitely do not get enough civics, it's very uneven who gets it, and how. the quality is the real issue.

do we get civics that makes it relevant to the students? do we understand how all these relatively complex things are? what they mean to me, and how i can use them to have a better life, that's what we really need, we need people to be able to tie the dots, and understand how this is relevant.>> a lot of folks are waiting with questions. let's start with jason, in pennsylvania. go ahead, jason.>> my name is jason stern. i am so excited, these are my favorite resources together, i'm just thrilled to hear you talking. i have been a user for over 10 years. this is a fantastic resource that really engages students in

learning. and at all different levels. i am so excited to have these resources. i can't wait for civic learning week, this week. we are really excited. how do you curate your material to be used in a country where civics can be a divisive topic? it has become more and more difficult to teach it in schools. i am happy to hear both of you guys together.>> thank you so much. we maintain an educator network. it's about 400 teachers strong. the answer to your question is really you. we hire educators. educators know how to make topics fact-based, direct, and engaging. for example, we don't hire folks who have been out of the

classroom for decades. we focus on educators who know their students, who know their material, and who know how to make it fun for students. that's what we think is really important. yes, it's a very divisive topic, and we try to stay away from that, to remain 100% nonpartisan. it takes a little doing. it takes a look at the best method to do that, to maintain independent review, and we present our materials, anything that can be potentially divisive, and we present that to folks with different viewpoints. academics from more conservative and progressive leanings, we want to make sure we can find a language that is unifying. our goal is to unify the country, that's the theme of civic learning week, civic

education. we have to put in the time and effort to be able to live and walk the walk, not just talk the talk.>> tell us a little bit more about civic learning week, who it is for, and what resources are available in and out of the classroom.>> national civic learning week is coming up next week. we have programming all over the country. the entire week is virtual. that portion is organized by our civics now coalition. our coalition has 330 member organizations. those organizations are devoted to making civic learning a greater priority in our country. we all agree that we need to invest more, so that we can maintain a healthy democracy. we organized this week so

people can see how civics learning is a unifying force, it's our second annual civic learning week, and on tuesday, we have a big national forum in washington, d.c., at george washington university. we are featuring information literacy, and we are learning how to make progress. how do you do this work? we are showing examples of people who have. at night, we will have a conversation with the secretary of education, and that will be interesting. the main program is a conversation with the justice,

and amy coney barrett. is - - this is an important time. we need to find a pathway to work together.>> i can tell folks that you can find those resources at civic learning weeks website. i want to point out that c-span also offers a civic education resource, called c-span in the classroom. it includes free resources for teachers, students, and the public, featuring programming and programs related to history and the constitution, and other resources for educators.

now let's go to ralph, in washington, d.c. ralph?>> i want to congratulate this lady on her efforts. i am 70, i was raised with some civics, and i'm stunned by the lack of knowledge. if you don't understand civics, you don't understand how the country was formed, the republic, and the gifts that we were given. the bill of rights is so important. the first amendment, freedom of speech, i mean i'm watching people say i don't agree with what that person says, hate speech or whatever kind of speech it is, and therefore the government has a right to go in, which they have done, and they've censored people on facebook on twitter, and on other media outlets. i am just stunned that people don't understand the significance. and our schools, and ted

instead of - - you have groups that are separated, you are oppressed because of your skin color, you are a victim because of your skin color, this is the most divisive stuff i've seen. it is stunning that it is being propagated and pushed. thank you. >> i'm going to pick up on where the color left off. we noticed a division in the civic education space. civics is - - icivics is popular because we stick to the facts, and we stick to teaching students in a nonpartisan way. in 2019, we began an effort to

reduce the partisanship and division in education, it is called educating for american democracy. 300 people participated in the deponent of this road map. it is not a curriculum, it is a set of questions. and we ask americans to take a look at what happened in the past, to determine how we should act now. this is really in-depth. a lot of people sometimes wants to have a purely good view of something, or a purely negative view. there are ways to admit the things that we have not done right. there are great details in the bill of rights, and in the constitution. those ideals we have sometimes lived up to, and sometimes have

not. we just need to go on, find yourselves in one community, and solve our problem. if people can de-escalate the divisions and try to work together to find a path forward for our country, we are a strong country. we will remain a strong country.>> ted is in oregon. let's hear a question for luis.>> good morning. executive, legislative, and judicial, those are the branches of government. i never thought for a new york minute i would be talking about my civics teacher, who is at a school in oregon, in my seventh grade year. i am just shocked that civics

was not continued after we were not there anymore. one thing we were taught, our teacher made us know the supreme court. she made us know all 100 senators, from 50 states. she made us know the mayor of the town we lived in. she made us know our county commissioners. and for that, i know she is long gone. i hope you can do what she did, and keep politics out of civic education. that's the secret to it. thank you.>> we could not agree more. inc. you so much for that. that is all we want to do, we just wants to make kids aware of the community they live in.

how does it work? they feel a sense of community, they will be attached to the community, not only attached to this community, but attached to our country, and that is really important. there are great teachers out there, they want to do this work, they just need more time and resources in the classroom. our coalition is aligned to make that happen, to have my resources and time in the classroom. if you have an organization, and you are watching this show, and you are not a member, please join us.>> i want to read some comments and questions we are getting.

mark stone says i believe the people of america need to be better educated on civics, but we have few examples of that. today, they want to get rid of the electoral college, filibuster, eliminate the i.d., eliminate the border, limiting ice, defines the police. a text ssage from jesse in albuquerque, students today need to be taught economics and entrepreneur skills, to make them economically empowered no matter what situation they are born into. empowered students treat each other better, and have more drive to learn, including understanding a complex element. and a question from margie, in pennsylvania. in 1954, we had a civic class in a small northwestern pennsylvania town, and we walked monthly to city council meetings, to learn from the ground up. >> i think she is onto

something. i think this was a case of unintended consequence. i don't think anybody set out to reduce the time spent on civics, someone earlier pointed out that there are only so many hours in the day. if you are going to put a lot of time, resources, and high- stakes, and make the results a consequence of resources coming to the school, then what will happen is that you are going to drop things that are not being tested. we have very few tests in social studies and civics now. no one is arguing for more tests, but the inequity between disciplines is a problem. i will add something that people should think about a little bit more. i'm not sure that what we've done in the past for literacy has worked all that well. the relevancy of topics like

social studies, raising reading rates and literacy is documented by research. these topics are not as separate as they appear> i want to bring daniel in, he is an author who has some comments on civic knowledge. for more than 100 years, th united states has used a civics test is a way of naturalizing citizen to participate fully in the life of the republic, newcomers must first acknowledge the values d mechanics. why not provide tes more widely? we can also install a test as a speedbump on the road to public

office. we already require senators, house members, judges, military personnel, and many others to repeat an oath of fealty to the u.s. constitution. why not ask people running for office, from county auditor, to u.s. president, to sit for a test that verifies their understanding of the foundational document. that was a washington post opinion piece from just a few days ago. this kind of ties into a rut question from angela. how many states require high school students to pass a civics test before graduation? why don't all states require the passing of the test?>> roughly, in various formats, 30 states require it.

>> some states pick out a few of the questions, some of them use the entire test. what i will say is that i have seen much progress in the time since this happened. we have no objection to a basic civics test, but honestly this test is so basic, i don't think it accomplishes what people want. is it really enough for americans to understand the tensions, and how we should act today? i don't think so. it is really one of these pass

and go, and i don't think it is going to have much influence on whether or not people are able to see across differences. you know, we have no objection to this, but it has been done, and i am not seeing much progress.>> vince is in item - - vince is in idaho falls.>> how are you doing? louise, you are doing a fantastic job. but i think we have lost a couple generations on this. you know, i am pretty young, at 70. and behind me, there is just a faction out there, the only civics they know, from my

discussions, are the constitution, they know the second amendment, is there any correlation going forward? you saw my topic about immigrants coming into the country. i am around a lot of hispanic people, which is great, and the ones that have become citizens, they know more than a lot of my other associates, and i seem to know quite a bit, due to the fact that other people - - >> what was your question?>> is it close to what we are seeing? i am a couple removed from immigration.>> i'm going to stop you there to try to get to a few more folks, it sounds

like this is what you've been mentioning, many people coming into the country come in with a better base of knowledge than people who grew up here.>> it's not necessarily true, it depends on how they have learned, right? we are getting to the point in this conversation where we have to acknowledge the way that educators are trained, and the time that we give them to receive professional learning is really important. we are really devoted to training educators for civic engagement, so civic preparation and engagement can train students to understand their role, and it really matters the way you are taught. it is not just a set of facts, it's the fact that stick with you, and tell you how to behave.>> benton is in grand junction, colorado. i was interested in the idea of

comparative civics. i am a retired teacher. i taught in international schools. when you are in a country, living and working, you become acquainted with the community and country you are in. even though i was teaching mostly western kids, who came from western civics teaching experience and so forth, the juxtaposition of foreign governments puts back in [ inaudible ]>> can you respond to the idea of how our civics compares to other countries? >> i think that what is interesting about this, it's an idea that is being discussed more and more. as you know, state standards are set by each state.

state standards do not have a great deal of time for comparative civics, or specifically democracy versus authoritarian regimes, or other types of systems of government. i think that there is a push to try to understand better now, and to provide more time for the original, the base, the roots of democracy, those kinds of things, they are taught, but they are given a very small amount of time. that hasn't been the focus, quite as much. we spent more time talking on the structures of governments, such as the three branches of government, so on and so forth. i think there is a valance that each state is going to have to find, because it is not a tested discipline.

i expect the kind of topics that you are talking about will get out a little bit more as we enter an election where those issues are at play. mark is in kansas, good morning, mark.>> hello, good morning. i just wanted to say that since this country is so tied to their motor vehicles, let's put a basic civics test on driver's license tests, just a few basic questions. if you don't pass it, you don't get your drivers license. give the answers like you do on a drivers license test, so people are ready for the test. it's not going to solve everything. it's going to reach a lot of people, and at least give them some basic knowledge about how the government works.>> let's

let luis respond to that, what do you think of that idea?>> i am less interested in punitive, back to you, how would you train people to do that? you'd have to go state-by- state, you would have to provide a fair amount of support, and if that is the case, i am all in favor of a system in which we raise the level of civic understanding overall. i will say this. there has been a trend of questions around the civics test. the civics test is very basic. you go look at those questions, are there three branches of government? a kid can answer that, an adult can answer that and have zero understanding of what that means. that's what i worry about,

right? it is not enough to understand there are three branches of government. you need to know how they have changed over time, and their relationship together, and where we are in that cycle, and how those things have reserved - - and how those things have reversed, and for what reasons. you are talking about a level of knowledge that is so basic, i'm not sure it's going to help enough. for us, we would like to push education for american democracy for a greater depth of knowledge. we need more time in the classroom. we need to address decades of folks who have not gotten civics. just go look at the immigration tests. you can answer this and do nothing about it. that's what i'm worried about.>> thank you so much for your time.>> thank you, it is such a pleasure to speak to you, and your listeners.

wonderful questions. i appreciate it. >> let's start with the epa administrator, announcing this rule from the epa agency video.>> i'm pleased to announce the strongest vehicle pollution technology standard ever finalized in united states history.>> we will leave this recorded program here. watch on our mobile app, hear testimony from the white house budget director, and the treasury secretary, on president biden's budget request, and the economic outlook. you are watching live coverage of the house appropriations subcommittee hearing, on c-span.