so elizabeth spalding, where are we? we are at the victims of communism museum in washington, d.c. on mcpherson square. and how did this museum come about? it came about because of a 30 year dream and organization called the of communism memorial foundation, which was formed which was formed shortly after the fall of the berlin wall. and then it was this one will amuse you. it was authorized by a unanimous act of congress in 1993. and then into law by president bill clinton. and the purpose of it was to educate and more realize the history of communism. these would be the victims that it created. this grand holocaust that so

many people didn't know about. and america had been so good about educating about the the holocaust. during world war two of the --, others. but people didn't understand there was this similar holocaust that created victims of communism. and so that's the initial impetus. but this took so long because initially the foundation was focused on building a memorial and there's there's a memorial to the victims of communist them that is on on federal parkland. and we just celebrated the 15th anniversary of that memorial this past summer. and then we were building up educational programs over the years. and then the museum was always there as a dream and an aspiration. and needed money for it. and then we were able to research right. build and get everybody here designed, fabricate and and get it done for it. opened in june of 2022.

how much? so don't have a full count on that yet because we are in a leased space and we need many, many more millions. so if any of your viewers would like to donate, please do so. but it was it was millions to do what we have here. i'm not sure of the exact amount, but i think probably around 10 million thus far. so, dr. spalding, when was the word communist first used? so the word communist was used before the word communism first. so that one goes back hundreds of years to your first mention of it. but as an ism, it's a more modern word, and most people associate it with marx. he wasn't the first. karl marx wasn't the first person to use communism, but he was one of the first to describe it. but it's a 19th century word. first cropped up in paris at some and as so many revolutionary ideas do. so karl marx, friedrich engels. mm hmm. where and when did they live?

and how did they come? how did they develop this system? right. so they were colleagues. they were. they were friends. what some people might call best friends or bff. as my students would say these days, and they are men of the century and they were philosopher powers and they were german. they eventually end up in london because they're not popular in the various places that they lived before they reached. and they come together as a team. and karl marx has these ideas about communism and he said, well, past philosophers have described the world. our goal is going to be to change it. so right there, he's he's going toward an ism, not just a theory. and they're famous work, their most famous work is the communist manifesto, which first was published in 1848. and how popular or widespread

was it at that point? at the time, it was not. well, it wasn't spread out that much of people didn't know about it that much. and the ideas in it started to percolate. but it really isn't until the early 20th century that the communist manifesto itself, as a public publication, gets wider and wider distribution. and i actually have a sample here of it. this is an original in russian of the communist manifesto. the manifesto itself was originally published in german and then it has been published in many different languages. it's one of those ones, you know, the bible still beats it out. i believe agatha christie still beats it out. but when you look at those lists of publications, of books and it is small, i want people to see here how small it is. right. so a publication, ones that have been published and republish it, the communist manifesto it on

those lists of vladimir lenin became a deep student of karl marx and marxism. so he's the one that puts a lot of marx into practice, and he's the first one to do so. and he spent a couple of years immersed in marx's writings. so you asked earlier about how well-known was was the communist manifesto at the time? lenin is actually one of the people responsible for having karl marx's writings known to the wider world. and so he not only reads and immerses himself in the communist manifesto, but he does so in his in all of the marx writings that he can find. so he is the the original on this. and vladimir lenin is russian. and and he agrees with marx that maybe the the communist revolution will happen. inevitably, all of this first in a highly industri realized country like germany.

but then he starts to see more and more of these opportunities in russia, where he's where he is now, he has to run away several times. he's he's in at various points, but he is the one that says, okay, there are opportunities is here in russia for the explosion or the progression of communism. and what was the role of world war one? world war one, you cannot understand, as you say, the explosion and then the installment of communism without understanding world war one. it is what gives a major opportunity. and marx pretty much wrote this. he did it various times. and then lenin perfects this idea, that revolution elsewhere, war elsewhere can help you foment and cause a communist revolution. so what was the progression of vladimir lenin coming into power and his rule until his death in 1924? yes. so in an armed coup, the bolsheviks, led by vladimir lenin, take over russia in 1917.

that's what we call the bolshevik revolution. and even though they seize power from this, this interim, weak provisional government that many people had hoped would become a democracy see of some sort at the time he doesn't get all of russia. when he and his comrades do this armed coup, they have to secure the rest of russia. so this is the period where you have a civil war, all sorts of fighting going on. and during that right away, lenin and trotsky and others at the top, they set up a secret police. and that is one of the first things they do. they are using their army for political means. that's the red army, which it ended up being called that throughout soviet history. and then they also set up very quickly a camp system, which is the gulag that then is developed over time.

so all of that is very early during lenin's reign. a lot of people will say, well, lenin was he wasn't that bad. stalin was the bad communist. but lenin was right there at the beginning, setting everything up and killing millions responsible for the deaths of millions of people. in his time as the communist dictator of russia. so the term bolshevik, where does that come from? what does it mean? right. so not all the communists agreed with each other. and so they ended up calling themselves different things. and the bolsheviks, it was typically it actually meant the minority at the time. but but lenin associated himself with the bolsheviks. and so they're the ones that prevail. they prevail against the different factions of communism at the time and of socialism, and which wasn't at that time for communism. did communism at the time of lenin, 1918 to 1924, did it spread beyond the soviet union,

beyond russia? yes, it tried to, and it did, but not where it expected to. so the goal on the part of of lenin and the rest of the bolsheviks was to get further into western europe. and so poland was a major place to make communist, but also in the way, because many of the communist, many of the bolsheviks were still thinking about germany as the most favorable place to have a communist revolution next. so germany and hungary both do actually have short communist revolutions after world war one. and then poland is attacked, is invaded by by the red army. and this is in part a leftover from world war one. but it's also an effort on the part of the bolsheviks to spread communism further into the western part of europe. they have designs on finland. they have designs on the baltic nations. they they really are looking

around. it's not just, okay, germany theoretically should be the next country. it's we want as much as we can take. so there's a war and a lot of people don't know about the war after world war one. and it's a polish soviet war. that's what most people call it. and the soviets, the bolshevik red army, is doing quite well. but the poles are developing their strategy. they have great people in terms of the military and politics looking at this. they bring in allies. they figure out what to do and it all common roots for a defeat in. defeat for the red army at the battle of warsaw in august 1920. and we have a film here at the victims of communism museum that one of the acts in that film highlights that particular battle. and many call that the miracle on the vistula, because the poles, their allies were able to throw back the red army and save europe at that time from the

spread of communism outside the borders of of bolshevik russia. and so to this day, a lot of people don't know but should know you could have had communism much farther spread into europe at that time in 1920, if not for that battle. and then where they end up, the communists end up with some some communism outside of the borders of, bolshevik russia, which formally becomes the soviet union in 1922. so we've just celebrated the 100th anniversary of that. it was at the end december of 1922 is mongolia. so mongolia is your next state outside of the soviet union to become communist and and moscow. and lenin. they had encouraged it. they wanted it. but they end up having to go east. at first in their support for and their encouragement of an aid to a the next communist

revolution. you have an artifact here. the chicago sun tribune from 1918. what's the importance of this paper? this is showing. so lenin had promised peace, land and bread, but then communism right away can't deliver on that. and this is beyond, at this point, the effects of a world war. this is already what the policies of communism are doing. and so the chicago tribune and other papers at the time were tracking very carefully what's going on in russia and this new regime. what does it mean? and so this is a we wanted people to see that right away. there were many that were concerned that what the new bolshevik russia was doing was not good for either the russian people or for the world. and herbert hoover had a role in helping the russians with that famine. yes. yes. that's a thank you for that. a lot of people think there was only one famine under communism

or maybe two, if they know about china or, another country, then they might say three. but there are repeated famines that are state made, that are communist made, and lenin is responsible for for a very bad famine in the early 1920s. and this is the leading up to it. and that's part of what this headline is also capturing for our visitors. well, let's go into the next gallery and see what's in there. 1924, joseph stalin to power. how did he accomplish that? yes. so stalin, this gallery is a lot about the stalin years through the end of world war two. unfortunately, he is still the communist dictator in charge, even past that. but he works to consolidate his power. there are others who want to be the immediate successor to lenin and stalin behind the scenes and and already being what we would. stalin esque figures out how to

consolidate power, and he does so by later, several years in but he's already running the show even after lenin's death in 1924. and so he is the communist tyrant, the communist dictator that many people may have heard of. and so we wanted people to learn about the stalin era at the victims of communism museum, but we really wanted them to understand him because some people only know was he a bad guy. and so, of course, lenin communists to begin with. and now you to stalin, who is one of the worst. so this this second permanent gallery here at the victims of communism museum has a theme really of repression. and and you see these the big numbers that stalin is responsible for. but you also see lots of personal stories in this gallery. we were inspired by so many personal stories we couldn't cover all of them. but that's something that we wanted people to understand,

that the big numbers of over 100 million killed by communism. that means so many individual souls. and then, of course, so many other people are victims that weren't killed, but still had to suffer under communism. molotov horror cover. who is this woman? she was a czech. and so it's an extraordinary story. she was a dedicated polish mission against both the nazis and then the communists. and she she just spoke the truth over and over again. she was trained as a lawyer and she was a pilot. she was doing this in political life. and she she was put a on trial, a show trial. so show trials are the word that we associate with communism to show that it's not ruled by law. and so she knew that it was a rigged trial even as she was testifying. and and this is also happening

at a time where many people had hoped that would able would be able be more independent within the soviet world. and and so she's one of the examples that shows. so this quote that we have featured here at the museum is from a letter that she wrote to her daughter before she was executed, knowing that she would likely not have a fair trial or not expecting a fair trial and then that she would be executed. was stalin the main driver behind the expansion of communism in eastern europe? he well and no. yes. because he was he was joseph stalin and he wanted it to go everywhere. he actually is somebody who starts talking about socialism in one country more than the global approach that some of the original bolsheviks were much more focused on. but what it means is he wants communism in country after country after country.

all loyal to moscow. what it is, is he's very good at what he does. he was a tactician. he was a manager. he was not known for being a great public speaker, but he was very good at getting things done. and then he's he is willing because he believes so much in communism, to use every tool that communism in practice always relies on. so that's the terror, the force, the violence, the camps, the secret police forced you know, executions after force confessions, all of these that people might vaguely remember about this period he is perfecting them. they exist before him, but he's perfecting them. and then he's expanding them. he doesn't care to him a lot of lives lost. one is a tragedy. many are a statistic. variations of this quote have been attributed to stalin and if it's not exactly what he said, it's the sense of what he did. about 30 years he was in power.

that's right. so he dies in 1953 and he's he's the same until the end. he doesn't he doesn't let up. and he also, like lenin, takes advantage of world war to expand communism, to take more, to create victims. elizabeth spalding was that a deal with the devil when we allied with the soviet union in world war two? in your view? yes, i do. i think i'm a truman scholar. and so when he said he wanted both of them to to kill each other, if at all possible. but in the end, during world war two, you'd have to go with stalin in order to make sure that hitler didn't prevail. that right there is a description, a deal with the devil and it accords very much with what churchill said a couple of different times, famously. but what makes it worse now in some ways, because we know more history now than the statesmen

at the time who could only do what they could do is as history unfolded for them and with the facts that they knew on the ground at the time, and they did very well, i think overall is that knows he wants a world war in order to expand so a lot of what he in the 1930s is actually encouraging and setting up a world war. so it is a deal with the devil, but it's it's one that many on the allied side in world war two, they didn't know how much he had done before it. and so here, the museum, we're very focused on making sure that that visitors understand the importance of the molotov-ribbentrop pact. and that's on the eve of what ends up being world war two. and that's an agreement right between the soviets and the nazis, between stalin and hitler, to to divide up europe, to take it over, and to have two

different types of totalitarianism running the show in europe, if not further abroad, than that the number of people estimated to have been imprisoned and killed during josef stalin three. so here's an interest the the were often good but perfect record keepers and as you know there are times where they would inflate they would deflate all this kind of thing. it's easier with with nazi ism. they were better at keeping numbers. i don't mean easier in any sense other than to get an accurate record, but scholars working on on records that they found, what seemed to be verifiable eyewitness testimonies. you put everything together with the best scholarship that you can. and stalin is responsible. his reign responds sible for over 20 million killed, and that never that number never goes down. it only goes up as more information comes out and some

of those in the gulag, you know, there were millions in the gulag, but it's also through forced collectivization, state made famines and other just horrible things that communism does that they don't even they don't value what a life is. now you have some artifacts from the gulags. yes. so we have different artifacts here. if you come over and on this side, we have these are our newest artifacts from lithuania. that that give you a sense of how each person is broken down so that they're not even viewed as a person. right. and then that people are still trying to keep their faith while under horrendous conditions. there are amazing stories of of that only from the lithuanian experience, but throughout the camp system, this rifle was

actually used to to fight the soviets by the finns when when during the winter war, when the the soviets were hoping to pick up finland and then it made its way to the baltics and it was given to the person who's put it on loan here by grateful baltic members of the military now who said, oh, thanks for your service in the past for fighting communism, now we are free again. but on the other side here, there are also more artifacts that give a sense of the personal and how hard this was for people. some people will have heard of the nok in the night and. you didn't know what that meant, but you expected it to be that the communists were coming to take you away and so many people had a suitcase ready. and so this was part of our sense was trying to show that you don't get to take much when you're being either deported or

sent to the gulag or both at the same time. but that you you only had time if you hadn't packed to collect a few belongings. but if you thought about it, what would be most important to you and and one of our efforts here was also to show that children were among the victims of communism because, many people think they were just in prison and taking away and putting in the camps. some people that didn't agree with them and maybe some criminals kind of mix. but but everybody was affected by this, including the youngest women and were they were imprisoned, sent to the gulag, deported. and deportation is not a pleasant thing. you're dumped somewhere and and you're taken away from your home or your home country country. this is another visual on on artifacts. now this is something that is not from actual gulag. this is this is a reconstruction. but we wanted visitors to the museum understand how little

food people were given and that this was not for sustaining life. and then you also had to work often 14 or more hours a day at the most. you know, i don't know the manual labor you can think of and then multiply it. and that is the kind of bread that they would get. and it's not it's not even you know, there's filler in it. it's not warm and yummy from the oven and this and a cup of of hot water and the the the watery at the end of the day if you were lucky and this was something that was so precious that you didn't want to eat it all at once because you wanted to spread out during the day and you wanted to keep it safely. so it couldn't be taken by the rats or by another prisoner. how were you identified as an enemy of the state of the communist? we talk about bourgeois, see, but these were peasants, right?

right. so early, especially the kulaks were considered a suspect class. it is not the way people were identified. wasn't. again, there's no rule of law. there's no. there is no. oh, gosh, somebody broke a law. now we to figure out what happened. none of that on in the communist regimes. and so instead what is happening is the the the communist the moscow kremlin, they're looking at people who could be problematic or, who weren't, you know, in line enough or the whole part of this ism of totalitarianism is to sow fear and confusion and even paranoia and all sorts of horrible things so that get everybody to obey you just you, everybody to obey, whether they're at the top or at the bottom. and so it doesn't matter. charge is levied against the person. it's just so then either that who's able to be dispensed with

will will will do what you will be example. so other people will do what you want them to or that person or herself might go ahead and, say yes, i'll sign it. i will do whatever want, let me live or they somebody who died and was considered an enemy of the state. i want to show you one quote, if i may, before we leave this gallery, this one again, in these personal stories we wanted to show that there were communist victims of communism. so that is, to me, one of the most important examples to give people. nikolai bukharin had been at the very top. he was he was a lead bolshevik. he worked with both lenin and stalin and that, quote says it all. well, leon trotsky. yes. was another yes leader. what to him? yes, he was. that was a masterful stroke on stalin's part to turn leon

trotsky into an enemy of the from behind the scenes. he goes into exile. and then eventually he is assassinated by the communists. after he had had to move around a bit and ended up mexico. well, let's get into the other gallery here and let's see what's in there. so elizabeth spalding, we're going into gallery three. what's in here? this is the gallery that covers from the end of world war two to the present. among other things, it shows how much communism goes global after world war two. it doesn't that there weren't intimations of it world war two, but really get bigger. we have to in order to cover ground, we have to go more geographic rather than timeline in this gallery. yeah. and you have a geographical map. we do video wall. yes. yes. so we have what we call our map. film it different things. it shows different moments in an

immersive way about the history of, the victims of communism on the map. but also it has two counters that i wanted to make sure were in one counts. the numbers of victims being killed by communism over time. and the other one shows the number of victims being forced to live under over time. so that one, because this is a historic map film, goes up in numbers. it retracts a bit after 1989 and after 1991, with the collapse of the soviet union second, and before that, the collapse of communism in eastern and central europe. and then it goes back up again, because there are still five communist countries left in the world. what was it about post-world war two that led to the expansion of communism? it was a combination of things, but really coming out of world war two, you have the soviet union be very strong in in not i mean, the united comes out of world war two, very strong, too.

and it's a an economic political cultural, all sorts of ways juggernaut. but as an opponent to it, the soviet union is really strong. it is working hard to spread communism. so stalin in charge, he doesn't die until 1953. that's another what if of history, what if he had died earlier? i think they would have still kept going. but stalin was very good at this. so he is. is that one of that famous quotes of his where whoever occupies as a a territory will impose his social system on it? that is what stalin is doing. so the soviets, the red army, they hold on to what they liberated right in world war two and they then impose communism in so many of those countries and they only don't impose it where there's pushback so the policy strategy of containment that the united states develops under president harry truman is

so very important because people don't realize that countries like greece and turkey and iran and palace, all of those could have easily been communist after world war two, if not for the strategy of containment. instead, communism has to settle for romania and bulgaria and hungary and poland and and czechoslovakia and the eastern part of germany and of course, the soviets want more of germany. they push, they try for it. they're rebuffed. later, in the 1940s and multiple times 1950s and 1960s, they still want to to do more on germany. and then and then chuckles. avakian deserves special mention here because many had hoped that it would stay free or longer or, be able to do some sort of compromise with the communists, have a hybrid government. and in 1948, outside the communist swirled. everybody is shocked by what is

known as the czech coup, where fully comes and is imposed in czechoslovakia, 1949, china. china, yes. okay. so 28 years of financial and other support from the soviets to china get to 1949. so of his first payments is when he's young, mao gets it from the red army to go ahead and try to spread and and there's civil war in china but the communists know what they want to do there's war again wrapped up in it mao zedong who will be communist dictator of china for what feels like forever he he is somebody who wants to ignite a second world war in order to have the communists, the chinese communists advance in china and take over. and so that is one of his goals, just like stalin. at the same time, a second world

war in order to benefit from it. so in china, there's resistance but you also having to fight the japanese for forever because many you know i think in america don't understand that world war two began in asia much earlier than it did in 1939 for europe. so the mao and the chinese communists will will fight the japanese but they're very strategic about how they fight japanese and their main opponents. the chinese nationalists are really decimate hated by fighting so much of world war more directly. and then this is years and years and years. this then we get to the end of the war and it's a mess it's a mess in china. and there's still civil, you know, the civil war that had been going on in the interwar period is now on again. it's resuming and and mao has emerged as even stronger. he has great support from the

soviet union, including getting extra chunks of land as a result of of what the soviet union liberated after world war two. all of it builds the americans are supporting some, but they're very conflicted. general george marshall does, a famous visit to china and he you know, he's the architect of victory in world war two. and he says, i can't fix this. i don't like any of my choices here he comes back and he advises, president truman, to just try not to be so involved, support the anti-communists, if you can. but i don't even know if that's going to work. it's very muddled for a while. and the end result is in, as you said, 1949, when the communists successfully take over that large landmass and impose communism on the chinese people, what was the effect of communal in china? oh, my goodness. well, the victims of communism

museum we call mao zedong the mass murderer in terms of raw numbers. and so he until his death in 1976 doesn't care about individual lives, doesn't even care about lives in the aggregate. and the numbers for him for victims by communism. this there's not agreement because of the way records were kept and also archives that have been and closed and open again but the best range on this by good scholars is anywhere from the upper 40 million mark like 49, 48 plus million to perhaps 80 million killed by communism under mao zedong and this is not just the only account for victims, because there are so people who lead miserable and the the canard that somehow mao elevated so many people of

poverty is is just one that we hope that people learn the real history when they come here. one of the goals of communism is the destruction of religion, correct? yes. why? yes, because god gives you a source outside of state, outside of the communist party and the state in the communist party end up being the same thing for communism and also if you've got a very strong communist dictator leader at the top, a stalin or mao, then god is also an opponent to that is something that can be seen as a transfer source outside of that that dictator as well as the party and the and the state. and i think that's what it is at bottom communism. it goes back to to karl marx communism is based on atheism it's it's something that there's no room for god, no room for religion, no room for something

that's above that is transcendent. and it doesn't matter type right. doctor spaulding knowing what know about karl marx and joseph stalin would karl marx have approved of josef stalin's actions? that's an excellent question about if marx got on in his time machine, what would he have thought if he showed up? i think part of it is when would he have shown up? would he would he would he have been in the gulag himself or would he have been in a party meeting where he talk about the very important ways in which we are spreading communism? that to me would be a big question to this. would he know everything? would he know what lenin, who idolized him had done? would he would he say, okay, yes, i want communism so much. and i did say i did say i wrote it. i wrote it that there would be violence necessary is this what i meant? now that part, i don't know. but there is so much in marxism as an which really helps lenin

do what he does and stalin do what he did and mao do what he did and all the others that we can talk about. so, you know, he might be proud some ways for what he would have, you know, contributed to. have you ever seen communism adopted by a majority of a country's people so i mean favored right. right. no, it's it's i think there's one example somewhere that people will talk about that's the place where people adopted it. but no, it's been in the nearly 40 countries that have had to suffer or still suffering under communism. it is not been elected in free and fair elections. it's not been selected and i'm an a modern, a contemporary, a current example is, you know, venezuela. i thought they were voting for some kind of socialism and they don't want what they have right now. so where there an election and

course there are many questions about free and fair and all of that but something where you can think of more recently with elections or nicaragua. you know all of i can't believe we're we're to think about some of these things in latin america that you would have hoped that in the 1980s and 1990s, people would have said that's all passed now before leave this gallery, technol energy escape and smuggling yeah all of artifacts here we have amazing artifacts in this room. so some viewers will have to learn what an album. but this was a way that who wanted to listen to music that wasn't dictated by the state but they could listen to it. they wanted to listen to, in this case, the beatles. they would go ahead, have these contraband albums. and this is an x-ray that has a beatles album on it. so somebody could have that. and there apartment and it would

look like it was an x ray not a record. and so they wouldn't get into trouble with the state for having this kind of thing. so this is extraordinary. this one is a media example. the 1956 revolution in hungary for almost weeks, the hungarians overthrew the the the stalin east communist government in hungary. and it's one of these amazing stories and so the term freedom fighter really was at this time and many people don't know that. and magazine picked the hungarian freedom fighter as their man of the year. that and then this one is chilling to me. many people have never seen an artifact like this when it was donated by the person who actually used it in order to escape communist cambodia. so can you imagine you're having to to figure on your radio in a certain direction, like a compass. and you're it's it's not like it

was just for one mile or five miles or ten miles. this is how hundreds of miles using this what looks like a transistor radio as your compass to get to thailand. so as long as he heard silence or didn't hear anything, not that was the direction to. right, right. you've got lots lots of pictures up here. i know we haven't talked about alexander so neat. and vaclav havel, natan sharansky. but you have some there's vaclav havel right there. but who are these people that we're looking at? right. we wanted to again, those big numbers, over 100 million killed by communism, over 1.5 billion people still living under communism. again, this is an effort to make this personal so that people understand individual by individual. we have over 200 faces here. and there's a story with each person. the this one, the ones that are well, okay, right here.

do you know who that is? i don't. okay. so i'm not going to tell you yet. he was a german force live in east germany. his father was taken in the night at some point and put in the gulag he didn't know why there was no reason and. as a young man, this gentleman wanted to be a journalist and he had really good grades and in east germany he could have gone to and had that kind of career and because of what happened to his father and his father did end up coming made it back from the gulag. he said, i don't want to ever join the communist. so he's an east german, you know, german. but in east germany and he he says, i will not join the party. so it closed off so many avenues in his education. so he ends up going to seminary because in parts of eastern central europe, all the religion was always they allowed certain

things and he becomes a lutheran after going through seminary almost and so he. was in reinhold niebuhr. no, no. so he really important to the the of people to keep faith alive. but then he started holding bible studies and then he started doing these sermons that people would come from outside his church and more more people were coming. and then other pastors and other churches started doing what he was doing. and so he is one of the religious responsible for bringing down east germany. and his name is yocum gauck, and he ends in in a united, free germany after the collapse of of communism, the fall of the berlin wall, as as president of germany and is still alive. he still speaks out on subject.

and he is one of the recipients of our truman reagan medal of freedom, which is the highest award that the victims of communism memorial foundation bestows. i have noticed that we have not seen a photo of ronald reagan tear down this wall speech or november 9th, 1989, the wall being torn down. we have that in our film. mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. when. are you open? you're a couple of blocks north at white house, right? right. so we're open monday through friday 9 to 3, but people want to make appointments. they can contact vmc directly. and what's very important on that, we want schools to know, especially so we've had a number of school groups come through. we want more to come through. so if there's a time that you need to make an appointment the o.c.

can accommodate that and we want we've had thousands come through already we want millions to come through the museum. do you see weekend hours ahead we hope to. we are a small nonprofit. we are seriously underfunded and understaffed and that is one of our goals for 2023 and beyond. thank you for your time today. you're welcome. it's been a pleasure to be with you, peter.