saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more , including comcast. >> oh, you think this is just a community center? . it is way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with 1000 community centers so students from low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. comcast supports c-span along with his other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. the director of the federal bureau of prisons joined the justice department's inspector general to testify on the rise of nonmedical related deaths in the federal prison system. they talk about the need for policy reforms for solitary confinement and mental health and substance abuse treatments, and more

funding and resources. >> this meeting of the senate judiciary committee will come to order. the committee is considering a troubling report issued by the justice department's inspector general regarding the deaths of incarcerated individuals in the federal bureau of prisons. let's welcome director peters and inspector general horowitz back to the committee. in recent years, more than 300 people have died of unnatural causes in custody of the bureau of prisons. deaths have been too often the

result of mismanagement and operational failures. an investigation by the national public radio three years ago found of thompson federal prison in my home state of illinois has become one of the deadliest prisons in america because of the now defunct special management unit. i was shaken by the allegations in the article and immediately asked inspector general horwitz to investigate them. we will discuss the results today. after reports last year alleged some adults died while waiting for necessary medical care, i called on them to change procedures, staff, and supply medical unit so incarcerated individuals could receive the care they needed. it is evident many issues the committee has highlighted over the years including understaffing, overuse of restrictive housing, employee misconduct will continue to have deadly consequences if they go

unaddressed. the inspector general will report and identify 344 nonmedical deaths of adults in custody in its review period 2014 to 2021. a number of trends emerged that demonstrated increased risk to safety and care. for example, 20% of these deaths were overdoses from contraband and prescription drugs. bop continues to struggle with adequate treatment for thousands of individuals fighting addiction. understaffing particularly in health and psychology services strains their ability to provide quality care. violations of b.o.p. policy prevent -- present significant barriers to ensure institutional safety. this afternoon my colleagues on the criminal justice subcommittee will hold a specific hearing on the present staffing crisis. b.o.p.'s lengthy and

ineffective disciplinary process fails to bring staff misconduct and they continue to use post death reviews and improper record-keeping to identify corrective actions. this failure to learn from past mistakes is most troubling when examining the role of restrictive housing and custodial deaths. suicides accounted for just over half of the deaths reviewed. almost half of those suicides occurred in restrictive housing , which is more commonly known as solitary confinement. we have a stark reality when it comes to solitary confinement. this is a cruel and unusual punishment that has been the norm in the united states for way too long. in 2012, i held a first-ever congressional hearing on solitary confinement . at the time, nearly 8% of federally incarcerated individuals were in restrictive housing. after some progress we have returned it to roughly the same

percentage of people in solitary today. we know that overuse of solitary confinement causes lasting, irreparable, physical, emotional, and mental harm to incarcerated people. moreover, it strains the present budget. i want to add, i understand some of the individuals we are talking about are dangerous people who need to be isolated under certain circumstances. i am a realist about that, but this consistent reference of 8% is unacceptable. earlier this month as we were coming off this release, it found the bureau has failed to implement 54 of the 87 recommendations from two prior studies on restrictive housing. let's be clear, the failure to decrease our overreliance on restrictive housing is deadly. deadly. that is why i am holding a hearing on the dangers this spring. director peters, i understand the issues were discussed long

before you arrived but it is time for solutions and change. the lives of the bureau is at risk. graham is under the weather today and won't be able to join us. senator grassley was here to acknowledge the opening of this committee meeting. he has another conflict in his schedule as well but i want to proceed. we will swear in the witnesses. each will have five minutes to provide an opening statement. then rounds of questions for each senator for five minutes. i will ask you to please stand and raise your right hand. do you confirm what you tell the committee will be the truth, nothing but the truth, and the whole truth, so help you god? let the record reflect both answered in the alternative. in the affirmative, i should say. we will start with inspector general horowitz .

>> i'm sorry. i couldn't hear you. are you calling on the first? >> yes, sir. >> thank you. i appreciate it. thank you, chair durbin. thank you for holding this important hearing. i also want to acknowledge that along with me are those who went to visit the sites including the prison that you mentioned in your opening statement. i have been inspector general now for almost 12 years and every year i have included the b.o.p. in my annual report of the top management and performance challenges facing the department of justice. yet with notable objections, problems only seem to increase. in the last year, the b.o.p. was added to the high risk list . to be clear, these are not new problems. yesterday we released over 100 oig reports since 2002 reflecting the systemic challenges of the b.o.p.

that we have identified over the past two decades. many of the 344 deaths that you mentioned that we found were due to suicide, homicide, drug overdose, other unknown factors that we reviewed in the death in custody report have a direct affect on these challenges. and by the way as we referenced in our report, so did the high profile deaths of jeffrey epstein as we detailed another public report that we issued. when the public wonders whether the treatment of those two high profile inmates was unique, the answer sadly from our deaths in custody report is it was not. many of the 344 in may deaths we discussed in the report were the result of seriously operational failures including long-standing management and operational challenges that involve serious staffing shortages including for correctional and healthcare positions, inappropriate mental

health care designations of inmates, ineffective contraband interdiction, and outdated camera security systems, staff failure to follow b.o.p. policies and procedures, and an ineffective, untimely staff disciplinary process. indeed one or more of these challenges were contributing factors in many inmate deaths and these long-standing challenges present a significant and critical threat to the b.o.p. 's safe and humane management of inmates in its care and custody. for example, we found in nearly a third of the in may deaths within our scope, contraband drugs or weapons contributed or appeared to contribute to the death. the rampant proliferation of contraband is a major challenge of the b.o.p. resulting in a partial closure of the federal penitentiary in atlanta in 2021.

as our report notes, atlanta had the highest number of deaths during the time period of our review ensuring staff follows policies and procedures and are held accountable is critical to ensuring the safety and security of b.o.p. for inmates and the majority of b.o.p. employees who do their jobs with honesty and integrity. the oig designates significant resources to investigate alleged criminal wrongdoing, particularly sexual assault and contraband smuggling. as we have seen through our ongoing criminal investigation, the warden, chaplain, and several other inmates have been convicted of sexual assault charges, failing to timely identify and address criminal wrongdoing can poison an institution's culture. relatedly our ongoing use, our audit of b.o.p.'s use of restraints was prompted in large part by allegations inmates at u.s. p thompson

which you mentioned and their special management unit work placing four-point restraints for extended periods of time and were otherwise -- inmates were otherwise mistreated while restrained. this unit was recently closed by director peters and response to these and other concerns. let me now turn to suicide, which comprised the majority of the deaths we reviewed. more than half of those who died by suicide as you noted were in single cell confinement. despite b.o.p. policy that strongly disfavors the use of single cell. further, almost half of the suicides occurred in restrictive housing units. moreover, over 60% of inmates who died by suicide had been designated at the lowest mental health treatment level. none of these are new issues. we repeatedly identify them in our prior reports and we may 12 new recommendations in our death

in custody report and the b.o.p. agreed with all of them and we will carefully monitor the b.o.p.'s implementation of them . effectively addressing these widespread, systemic issues the b.o.p. requires a long-term vision and strategy from apartment leadership with support from the office of management and budget, congress, and other important stakeholders. to be clear the problems we have identified in our oversight work over the past 20 years won't be solved overnight but must be addressed with urgency to protect the health, safety, and security of b.o.p. staff and inmates , and to enable inmates to successfully returned our communities upon their release from prison. toward that end, i very much have appreciated my quarterly meetings with director peters and her desire to meet with me regularly. it is the first time in my 12 years as ig where that has occurred and i think we have made important progress working

together. thank you and i would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have. >> director peters? >> good morning, chairman. members of the committee, i am pleased to be here with you and inspector general horowitz to discuss the deaths in custody report. we welcome, agree with -- >> could you pull the microphone a little closer to you? >> yes. we welcome, agree with, and are implementing the report's recommendations and have plans to go further and take additional steps to mitigate unexpected deaths in custody. i have spent my entire professional career working in the public safety clued including as a victim advocate, working with victims who lost loved ones. i know any unexpected death of an adult in our care and custody is tragic and it changes the lives of that person's family and loved ones forever. we also experience these deaths as a

heavy blow. i've been in the institutions in the days following unexpected deaths and i've seen our employees suffering due to the loss. our core mission always is to care for those in our custody and hope they leave our facilities prepare to be good neighbors. when our best efforts are not successful and death does occur, we review the processes so we can prevent similar deaths going forward but we can do better here and must ensure that our reviews go deep enough and our documentation is clear enough to support those reviews. our psychological assessments conclude that many individuals who come to us, come to us with mental illness and substance use disorders making them more susceptible to suicide, overdose, and homicide. we have incorporated evidence- based treatments, like medication -assisted treatment. we train our employees to recognize those at risk of

attempting suicide, refer at risk people for help, and respond to suicide attempts, and train on the appropriate use of cpr, aeds, naloxone, and cutdown tools, ensuring our employees have access to those tools in the workplace. the report notes that suicides occurred when people were in restrictive housing. that is why we now provide special training to those who work in restrictive housing and limit the use of single selling . we have restrictive housing reforms underway now that will reduce the amount of time adults in custody spending restrictive housing for disciplinary violations. we are creating a special post in restrictive housing to help those in custody transition from that restrictive housing environment to the general population and we are going to add employees in restrictive housing during the overnight shift. we continuously work to combat contraband to reduce homicides and overdoses. this includes heightened screening of mail,

intercepting drones, communications, and continually monitoring intelligence and gaming activity. to harness all of this intelligence we are creating a new chief inspector position to identify systemwide patterns and problems including that that would prevent deaths in our custody. on a departmental level, the deputy attorney general has also formed a working group of experts to better prevent suicides. again, i want to be perfectly clear, our employees are our everything and fully staffed institutions and well-trained employees save lives. yet it is no secret that our agency is in crisis as it relates to recruitment and retention. we are aggressively recruiting and using incentives to maintain the employees we have. while our efforts over the past year have results, we are faced with an inability to compete

with the private sector and other law enforcement agencies. as an example, at a federal prison about an hour outside of austin, a correctional officer recently put his job for a better offer with better pay. the better offer, working at the local grocery store. on the law enforcement side, an ad running in the new york city subway is advertising city correctional officers can make around $130,000 after a few years on the job. in the same amount of time, our officers after we have implemented the 35% retention bonus, would be making about $90,000. the story is the same throughout the country. we need more resources to carry out our mission, implement our vision, and reach our goals. chairman durban, member graham, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak on the federal bureau of prisons and i welcome your questions.

>> thank you very much. my interest in this issue started years ago when i read an article in a magazine by a doctor in boston about the impact of isolation and solitary confinement on the human mind not just in this correctional setting but prisons of war and they mention john mccain and what he did in those five years of treatment and the impact on him. and it reminded us the majority of prisoners will ultimately be released if they are damaged in the process of serving time in prison. they will take that damage out into the open society and others may suffer, so this has been a longtime issue. 12 years since the first hearing under my leadership occurred in this committee. i have voiced concerns over solitary confinement, pleaded with the directors now and before you to do something about it.

i will reintroduce my legislation, solitary confinement reform act. director peters, the latest statistics show despite the decrease in the bureau's population since you were sworn in in august of 2022 the percentage and total number of individuals in restrictive housing is actually higher than it was at that time. as of this month, approximately 7.9% or 11,179 people are currently being held in some form of restrictive housing, an increase of 0.6% since september of 2022. director peters, you previously pointed your contract with the national institute of justice. when asked about your plans to address restrictive housing, what is the status of that study? >> thank you, senator. the study is underway. and ij has issued the contract. i have been on site and i have

been visiting facilities and interviewing employees. we are not just waiting for the results of that report. we are beginning to implement restrictive housing reform. currently we have plans to approve a new policy that will actually reduce the amount of time an individual can be sanctioned to restrictive housing for disciplinary purposes. as i mentioned in my opening comments, we are adding resources to solve this problem and in the short term as you know in your very own state we shot down the special management last year. >> here is my concern. since my first hearing on this issue in 2012 there have been multiple reviews of b.o.p. policy. the latest came out this month . according to their report, b.o.p. has not fully implemented 54 of the 87 recommendations from two prior studies on improving restrictive housing practices. one of the studies was

conducted by an external consultant and made 34 recommendations. only 16 have been fully implemented. a 2016 evaluation completed by the department of justice under the obama administration which president biden ordered the attorney general to implement in 2022 made 53 recommendations and only 17 happen implemented. the time for studies is over. the death rate in our prisons is unacceptable. damage to mental health is unacceptable. my question to you is what steps can you commit to today to immediately reduce restrictive housing populations ? >> thank you, senator. i think there are variety of things we are doing today including proving the policy that has been long-standing negotiated with our national union and that will decrease the amount of time individuals can actually be sanctioned to restrictive housing for disciplinary purposes. the data also reveals many individuals that are in restrictive housing are in there

many times of their own choice because they fear their ability to walk in general population, so we are working on creating cultures and environments that are more normal and humane so those individuals feel comfortable in general population and as i mentioned in my opening remarks, we are creating positions who will work in restrictive housing and their soul responsibility will be working with their individuals who don't want to leave restrictive housing and help them transition into general population. we did this in the state of oregon and it was very successful so we are looking forward to rolling that out this year. we are also looking at best practices across the country and around the globe to implement changes. as i shared with you the last time we met, this last year has been filled with strategic planning for the department. we have rebooted our mission, vision, our values and many of the goals we are working on will tie into restrictive

housing. both a strong plan around restrictive housing reform, and building morale and working on our recruitment and retention issues, which are the core of many of the issues as the inspector general pointed out. >> what percentage of those in restrictive housing have volunteered? >> that number is almost 40% and we are looking at the data as we get even closer into the data, it may be higher than that because we have individuals categorized as pc status, which falls under that 40%, and individuals on transition status and they, too, can fit in that category. >> aside from that category and those incarcerated because of their danger to others compared to cellmates, do you accept the premise those put in restrictive housing involuntarily run the very real risk of serious mental illness

or worst? >> senator, i would argue everyone in restrictive housing has the -- will suffer from some form of mental or physical damage. i think even those that are agreeing or wanting to be in restrictive housing need to be educated on the fact that that isn't where they belong and we need to safely house them . just because they are volunteering to be there doesn't mean the physical and mental wear and tear isn't happening for them as well and i think that is what the position we are wanting to create to put into restrictive housing will help combat. we have reintegration units where we have stepped down programs and units to help people get out of restrictive housing and we need to do better there as well. >> thank you. senator blackburn? >> thank you, mr. chairman. good to see you again.

i know are hearing today is focused on deaths of the incarcerated but i wanted to change the topic a bit and look at the treatment of our b.o.p. officers and focus on what is happening with some of the assault. assaults against our staff, our b.o.p. staff . not only the physical, but the ptsd and some of those issues that occur. . ye and yesterday i introduced the safer prisons act which would double the maximum term of imprisonment for assaulting a b.o.p. correctional officers, and director peters, for you, i know you would agree that these assaults present a real danger for the bureau of prisons so i would like to have your support

on the safer prisons act and have you support doubling that maximum term. >> thank you, senator. you know there are processes with the department of justice in terms of components being able to support legislation but i will tell you that the safety and security of our employees are essential. they are everything. if they do not feel safe in our institutions, then we have lost the core of our mission. >> let me ask you this, you mentioned hiring and retention as an issue, do you think the safety or lack of safety and protection plays into that difficulty in hiring and retention? >> i think that we do our best through augmentation and overtime in order to ensure the posts that need to be filled d are filled but you and i have talked before, augmentation is a great resource in the short term and we have been using it in the long term to south a long-term recruitment and retention problem, and it is making our people exhausted.

they are riveted with overtime, augmentation impacts fsa programming and operations, visiting is sometimes canceled because we do not have the people to support those posts. so we have a lot of work to do in this area and we have thrown every incentive and direct higher authority and everything that we can, but we need to go further. >> unf previously discussed jeffrey epstein and the chairman knows, i have been trying to subpoena his flight logs and ghislaine maxwell's little black book, i think it is essential as we look to break apart thesetrafficking rings that not only are here in the u.s. but have grown to be global entities. $150 billion a year business globally, trafficking human beings, primarily women and girls, so while epstein was in b.o.p.'s custody, did you ever have access to his unredacted

flight logs or to ghislaine maxwell's little black book? >> is a former victims advocate, i know that you and i share values about come -- combating trafficking. the epstein situation happened before my tenure at the federal bureau of prisons so i was not a part of any of that evaluation and would turn to the inspector general for any of those questions. >> okay. >> senator, i do not know the answer as we sit here, we can certainly make an inquiry. >> i would like to have that answer in writing, if we will. >> we will ask the b.o.p., we do not have the information you're looking for, we would have to ask the b.o.p.. >> i appreciate that but we would like a response in writing. i also, director peters, there is -- we have heard that b.o.p. is helping to transport migrants from the southern border into the country. and the bureau has confirmed that it has provided transportation for migrants since cbp has been

inundated with the search at the southern border. and we have talked before about the extensive staffing challenges at b.o.p.. and the negative consequences that come with that. so, are you comfortable with having to dedicate your resources that are already stressed to olivia president biden's border surge? >> as fellow law enforcement agency inside the department, we of course support supporting other components in helping with crisis, it is one of the things we do well -- >> let me ask you this, have you ever transported an individual who is on the terrorist watchlist?

>> senator, i don't know the answer to that question. >> would you look into that and respond in writing? >> i will have my team look into it and we will get back to you with information that is available. >> excellent, my time is up, but as always i am going to mention the memphis facility. you and i have such an ongoing conversation around that. and i do look forward to getting an update on that from you. >> figure, senator, i did check this morning and it looks like the timelines that we have provided the last time we checked are on target. >> excellent, thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you senator. >> thanks for having this hearing. directional officers, as i know from having been united states attorney and then attorney general of our state in connecticut, are among the hardest working and least appreciated, whether at the state level or federal level, they have to deal with dangerous situations every day. their work is out of public site for good reason because obviously they are in

confinement situations and so i am very, very some pathetic to the point that you made, director peters, about the need for retention, recruitment, and appreciation of the working conditions and the compensation that they serve. and i wonder, short of attentional compensation, whether there are working conditions issues that could be addressed, mandated overtime, other kinds of demands placed on them that maybe can be mitigated through better scheduling, better accommodations for them in their leisure moments during the job? maybe you could comment. >> thank you, senator. i appreciate the comments greatly, i think you are right,

they are unsung heroes, they are people that do not get lifted up and i will say that any other law enforcement agency, i think correctional officers have the toughest beat and public safety. the wear and tear, one in three have ptsd, many are exhausted with overtime and augmentation and so, yes, we have to change the cultures inside our institutions, we are working on creating more normalized and humanized environment so that they feel less institutional. our maintenance and repair backlog is about $3 billion, so when i visit our institutions, how are wardens are just as excited to show me the new fsa programming and treatment as they are the walls that are crumbling and the stairwells that are crumbling, so that type of an environment is no place for anyone to live or work and so we have a lot to do to change the environment for our correctional officers. the fed's survey says the federal bureau of prisons is the worst place to work in federal government, so we have a lot of work to do to help

support our correctional officers who are exhausted. >> correctional officers work behind bars. >> that is right. >> they work eight hours a day, sometimes more. with people, let's be very blunt, who have often committed very violent acts that put them behind bars. and so the more we can do to improve those institutional setting, the more we can change the environment for them and perhaps the way they react to the challenges they face. would you agree? >> thank you, senator, i agree wholeheartedly. while we have issued every authority in our power, we have increased the base salary for ceos by 2000, we have recruitment and retention incentives across the country, we have direct higher authority, the bottom line as i said in my opening comments is e we need to pay them more. the retention incentives, recruitment incentives are band- aids. we have to figure out how to increase that the salary so we can hire the best and brightest and keep them. >> in 2014, i led an effort

called the death in custody reporting act. congress passed the come the president signed it, it included, among other things, a requirement for a study. we are here 10 years after the passage of that measure. there has been no study of the data with respect to arrest related and in custody death. i agree wholeheartedly with the chairman that the time for study is over. but studies sometimes can be informative. and can guide action in the right direction. would you agree that study na should be done? >> absolutely, senator. one of the reasons we undertook this work was because there wasn't a set of data out there and we shouldn't have to be the first line of defense on these issues, it should be the department itself, it should be the component itself that does

that. it is not happening as it should. >> you point out, i think, and i think director peters, you make the point as well, but half of the 344 deaths by suicide have occurred with respect to prisoners who are in single cell housing or in solitary confinement. i recognize that there are significant mental health components to the reason for the suicide, but the correlation between that fact, isolation in a single cell, and death by suicide, maybe you ought to give us reason to change some of those policies. would you agree? >> absolutely, senator. i think there are several figures that jump out here, one is the fact that half of the folks are roughly half are in the cells.

a little less than half were in restricted housing and the one i mentioned in my opening, which is that over 60% of the suicide, of the individuals who died by suicide, were in the lowest mental health category. of the four categories, they were deemed to not need mental health treatment. that is over 60% of people. and that is very concerning, that is something that needs to be addressed and something frankly we have highlighted before as a problem and an issue. >> think you. i want to thank the german for having this hearing, i want to thank you both for your public service. correctional policy is not the most glamorous but it is among the most important of what we do in criminal justice and thank you both for your work. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you to both of our witnesses for your testimony. director peters, you have inherited leadership of a deeply troubled institution, and i suspect you sometimes

feel like your job is more akin to trying to change the direction of an aircraft carrier than lead an agile and well resourced organization because it's b.o.p.'s frankly, neither. i appreciate the determination, openness and figure with which you have approached this task and to inspector general horowitz who was very encouraging to hear that the two of you are working together responsibly, that instead of reviewing vig as a hostile party,as you as a bop director are engaging around these issues , nonetheless, as the chairman pointed out, and i want to thank you chairman durbin for your engagement and determination on this issue, over many years. there are lots of recommendations that have not yet been fully implemented, there are lots of important policy work to do here as senator richard blumenthal just said, federal corrections is a really important part of our criminal justice system, it does not get the attention that it needs and deserves. i have long been concerned with the overuse of solitary

confinement and have appreciated the chance to work with chairman durbin and support of this federal solitary confinement reform act now for several congresses. director peters, to say i appreciate your leadership in establishing an internal tax force and partnering with the national institute of justice to develop for the regulations on this issue. but we have got lots of recommendations over many years of work, inspector general, let's put aside just for the moment, the issue of policy implementation and focus first on the two have policies to implement. can you briefly elaborate on what is lacking at an overall policy level now in terms of addressing restrictive housing and single cell? >> thank you, senator. that is one of the significant recommendations we have made in the past, many years ago, 2017 report. about the lack of an overall policy guidance for when people

should be put in restrictive housing and when they should be single cell. we weren't alone in that, the b.o.p. itself put together a 2021 task force and asked what should they do? they listed , 11 recommendations, i believe it was, one of them was implement the oig's earlier recommendation and put in place this policy and that is still an open recommendation. there needs to be an understanding amongst all the wardens and all 121 institutions that when and how should single cell be in use? if i could, senator, let me give you a sense, during covid, directive went out from b.o.p. leadership do not use single selling as a quarantine method. unless there was an extra in theory reason. seven of the suicides were quarantine individuals during covid. not because they were acting be but because of covid quarantine. by the way, five of the seven had not had the review done

before they were single cell to see if they had mental health illness potential and after action reviews indicated that maybe also amended. >> striking. director peters, kenny respond to that particular question about having a policy in order to be able to implement it? >> absolutely, and so here is what we have done. first i want to say thank you for your comments about the partnership with the inspector h general. i would love to say publicly that the partnership has been exceptional. i am a former inspector general of the state of oregon so i know very much to respect his very hard job and we are working on implementing all of h the recommendations. here is what we have done as it relates to the fine points of the question you have asked. we have a policy, a restrictive housing policy that has been under review and negotiation with the national union for a very long time. we are so close to finalizing that policy, which will implement a lots of the th inspector general and gao's

recommendations. furthermore, we have an exceptional relationship the national union and the incoming president is working with us directly and we are going to come up with a plan to streamline policy adoption so that we can do not have interlace and have this be a barrier to implementation of the inspector general and gao's recommendation. we also have a future state and plan on how these policy negotiations will happen going forward. >> good, that is encouraging. i would hate to see the clock run out on your opportunity to resolve these long-standing issues. and to have the union at the table and b.o.p. leadership at the table and be implemented some of the ig's recommendations on this critical area is encouraging to me, i will be following this and i know the chairman will be legislating. and i briefly ask one more question, mr. chairman?

with the forbearance of my colleague. when a federal defendant is found mentally incompetent to stand trial, my understanding is if they are released on bail they are then required to be returned to custody to see if their competency can be restored in a b.o.p. facility but there are few facilities with this capacity. they have very long wait times , and that means that mentally ill that presumed innocent people can end up in interminable incarceration before they get the help they need before the criminal justice process can proceed. this has led to charges being dropped in some cases due to speedy trial issues. director peters, can you speak about what b.o.p. has been doing about this and will you work with me on helping identify ways that congress can help specifically on this issue? be my guess, thank you, senator. this is another long-standing issue that the department has had around lack of resources that are resulting in this backlog of these reviews. here is what we have done in the last year. we have added an additional --

40 additional beds at our facility in chicago to help us peel back this backlog. we are looking at adding additional beds this year at another facility that we have ye yet to determine but are working on a plan. we have also worked to create a psychology review team, that is a traveling team that is going to travel across the country now to help work on this backlog and then further, we are working on a program where we can hire individuals who have their phd but yet have not completed their dissertation, that would be able to come and help with these reviews as well. so, this is a long-standing issue that we are trying to fix, it is a conversation i have had with the u.s. attorney on many occasions, but it is certainly in our sites. >> thank you both, and thank you mr. chairman for your leadership. >> as we mentioned earlier, senator brooker, subcommittee on crime is having a hearing this afternoon on staffing in

the federal prisons, which has come up as this morning's meeting, many times. let me recognize the senator pick >> thank you very much for this hearing, i am grateful for the two witnesses being here. before i get to the question on staffing in general how to talk about mental health and well- being of both people that are incarcerated as well as the mental health of a lot of our incredible correctional officers . suicide rates for both groups are alarming to me. nationally according to this, society versus suicide prevention, it is about 14 out of every 100,000 americans die of suicide annually, that number alone should cause concern for all americans, it is so high, but people in custody die at rates that are much higher. according to the bureau of justice statistics, in 2019 it was up to 20 out of 100,000 persons. so, i am wondering first, maybe perhaps, director, for the

people that are incarcerated, what steps is the b.o.p. taking to curb this extraordinary rate of individuals committing suicide in custody? >> thank you, senator. we have done a variety of e things and while one suicide on our watch is one suicide too many i think the things that we have implemented at the bureau i represented in the data in that our suicide rate is less than the general population and less than state corrections. and i think it has to do a lot o with the psychology resources that we do have, well i am going to argue for more and better pay for those doctoral level psychologists, they do do incredible work in terms of finding those individuals that need resources and then we wrap those resources around them, and we have more work to do. we are looking at our, after action reports, looking to see if those need to be more bs substantive. are we sharing the data across the country when we find issues

that need to be resolved? i personally, senator, read every reconstruction report and then meet with a multidisciplinary team to talk about what we have learned and how we are going to implement changes going forward. >> just sticking with inmates, and an ig report, there was a discussion of the inmate companion program in which institutions may utilize individuals who are in b.o.p. custody in lieu of the b.o.p. staff. it seems to have the really promising success. the report indicates both an detained individuals and staff found several benefits from the program, staff! the program participants were more effective than b.o.p. staff at suicide watch is because they took better notes and interacted more frequently than staff. and so i am just wondering, can you provide the committee with additional information on this program and this promising and

something that you may want to expand? >> thank you, senator. and i have traveled to more than 40 of our institutions in the last year, i have had the privilege of meeting, these companions. and not only does the data bear that it is productive program, but just hearing the anecdotal stories about their ability to connect better with a peer, if you will, then maybe a corrections professional would be able to do, has been quite profound. and, they take their jobs so seriously. so we train them, we just do not select random adults in custody, we have a really clear selection process. and then we train them like we train our staff on looking for those predictive characteristice that we are looking for. >> just to jump in, i wanted her to get two more questions and. law enforcement in general has a real challenge with mental health and the suicide rates,

law enforcement in general, are difficult. can you just talk about the b.o.p. personnel really?? and then i will get my other question out on the staffing issues for correctional officers. can you just provide the committee with an update on some of the financial incentives you have talked about before? i still find it astonishing that correctional officers are the very bottom of all federal law enforcement, the amount of money they make to me is, better to go be a tsa agent or jobs like that than it is for -- in terms of the compensation. can you address both the mental health and wellness steps you are taking for correctional officers and then those financial incentives, which seem to be urgently needed and frankly, i think these incredibly hard workers need to be paid more. >> thank you, senator. i certainly appreciate your passion around the mental

health of our professionals who are often unsung heroes in the toughest law enforcement beat, and the data is startling. one in three have symptoms of ptsd. that means more anxiety, more depression. that means more reliance on substance abuse and higher levels of divorce. over 90% are obese, or in the overweight category. over 90% have hypertension or pre-hypertensionpe. which means they are on the track for cardiac disease. and so, the data is staggering and what we are finding across the country in some places, they can lead the federal bureau of prisons and work for state corrections and make 2 to 3 times more, let alone the bonuses we are battling against at fast food organizations for it is incredibly difficult, we have thrown everything incentive that we can at this problem, every recruitment incentive, every retention incentive, we have increased the base salary by 2000 for correctional officers. that is the amount of authority i have but the bottom line as i said in my opening comments, like

you are referring, we need to increase that base salary. we need to pay more. when we compare to other law enforcement, i also want to remind the committee that the average on boarding for law enforcement in this country is g 21 weeks and our officers receive about six. >> it is truly unfortunate, and i am hoping you can ask for the record, the mexican part of that question, about more detailing of the financial incentives. that i appreciate the indulgence, mr. chairman. >> senator kohn, you would be next. if you would like a minute, senator. >> thank you mr. chairman, senator cotton, and thank you for being here, a pleasure to see you both again. director peters, following up on senator booker's question about retention incentives, at usp atlanta, as at so many facilities, there are severe staffing issues, a real difficulty recruiting and retaining staff. i had sent you ata letter askin that b.o.p. undertake whatever he could to

add retention incentives, take steps to ensure that those correctional officers are well paid and can be retained. you have replied, which i appreciate, just like your commitment to continue working with my office to make sure that we are treating those correctional officers well, paying them properly, retaining their services. >> thank you, senator. certainly committed to that, we have thrown every incentive that we can that is in our authority, at recruitment incentives, retention incentives and at the core of many of the issues the inspector general reveals is a lack of staffing. and so this is incredibly important to us. as i said in my opening comments, the incentives have proven a band-aid affect. we need to increase the base salary for the correctional officer so we can hire the best and brightest. 2 i'm hoping we can work together to identify additional tools for the team at usp atlanta. let's remain on the subject of staffing, in 2021, b.o.p.

hired a contractor to develop a tool that was intended to help the bureau determine necessary staffing levels for safety at b.o.p. facilities , that is correct? >> correct. >> in march, 2023, a year ago, proximally, b.o.p. reported the total was still being tested in three of the six regions and said it would be rolled out to all six b.o.p. regions by june of 2023. did that happen? >> senator, i am not sure exactly when it was rolled out but we have completed the initial data analysis as it relates to those employees who were in the correctional services program division. they are recommending an additional 3500 positions in that category going forward. >> how many regions in the tool being used and is it being used for usp, atlanta for example? >> it is important to understand that will is to help us plan for future budget planning and requests.

that tool will not help me with the crisis today because i already cannot fill the positions that you have paid for today. >> and how many regions is a currently being used? >> that 3500, and senator, the next category they are working on right now is health services, which we have difficulty maintaining and recruiting staff in that category as well. >> my office, several offices on this committee have asked for a demonstration of this tool and been told that b.o.p. will not provide it because the tool is still being refined. can you make sure that we are able to view and observe a demonstration of that tool within the next several weeks? >> senator, i will work with my team and see the availability and where we are at with the tool and our ability to share it with you. >> okay, we cannot understand why we can't see it. it doesn't make any sense.

we should be able to come and see the tool. >> think, senator. i will work with my team and see what we can do. >> i hope that we can come and see it in short order. i understand b.o.p. conducted an inspection of spc otterson earlier this year. my team requested a copy of that inspection report. do i have your commitment to get that to us promptly? >> thank you, senator, you have my commitment to work with your team to get it to you as quickly as we can. >> thank you very much. inspector general, your report has detailed how b.o.p. staff were in some cases not carrying out key duties including required inmate mental health assessments, counts and rounds and trainings among others, that found these operational failures contributed to death in custody. how significant a role did understaffing play in those failures? see macisaac it is a very significant problem here, it has been a challenge that we have seen not only in that's but as we have gone to prisons to inspect them, and the problems that go both for correctional officers who are substantially understaffed,

ultimately being asked to work sometimes voluntarily, sometimes mandatory overtime, then we have augmentation which is pulling healthcare essentially can educational staff, potentially, facility staff, potentially, to cover the duties of the correctional officers, which has a cascading effect meaning there are long waits for the back training. healthcare staffing can be shortages or exacerbated and things like that. wa it is a big challenge. >> figure, inspector general. with my remaining time, i want to follow up on an issue at usp atlanta. as you know, an investigation st that i led several years ago found very substantial flow of contraband into the facility including weapons and narcotics. i.d.'s recent report found that contraband drugs or weapons contributed to nearly 1/3 of deaths in custody at b.o.p.. what steps have you taken to address the goal of contraband and the threat that pose to public safety at b.o.p. facilities?

>> the usp atlanta issues that were uncovered still fall into these two categories. lack of staffing and our maintenance and repair backlog. we were able to show you during your visit at usp atlanta that facility structure was crumbling and allowed for hiding contraband inside our institute, so we are working to maintain our facilities in a way where they are safe and secure, but we are also working every day to interdict contraband in our constitutions through the use of detecting in and stopping drone activity. looking at the mail and looking at ways to stop drugs from coming in via the mail, we work diligently to ensure that anyone entering our institution has a background check and is physically screened before they come inside. this is something that is top of mind as you well know and pointed out, contraband is a significant issue and can lead to lost lives, or even impact

the safety and security of our employees. >> and i just speak to the contraband issue? because it is such a significant issue, it is connected to, we found, one third of the deaths in our review and in the report. we have been on inspections and we were at fci tallahassee, for example, our team went and what you saw there in terms of challenges on contraband with inmates potentially smuggling contraband, inmates who were working near the fence lines could easily have something thrown over the fence to them. inmates who went out to collect garbage were not being checked as they brought bags back into the facility. some basic stuff that you would think, it is not sophisticated to figure out how to try to interdict that kind of contraband. and not surprisingly, by the way, prison with the highest number of deaths in our report was usd atlanta which had been closed in 2021, precisely

because of the hundreds of, the dozens of cell phones and drugs found in the prison. and so, this is a major problem, we have had a staff surge policy recommendation open for years that has not been implemented. a basic search policy, for staff coming in the facility that has not happened either. there are a lot of challenges on the contraband issue that are very significant, that we are concerned is contributing to inmate that's, both from homemade weapons and from drugs being brought into the facility. >> thank you, both. >> senator cotton. >> reporter: director peters, the inspector general noted in his statement for today's hearing that solving the bureau's staffing shortages quote, one of the building blocks to begin to address the chronic challenges facing the b.o.p.. he also said that significant staffing shortages have had a

quote, cascading effect on your bureau's facilities. when you testified six months ago, i asked you how many correctional officer positions were filled, he did not have an answer. at the time. last month you did an interview with x unit, he also did not have an answer. to have an answer today for how many correctional officers you currently have on payroll? >> is, senator. we have almost 40,000 authorized positions across the organization and 14,899 of those are correctional officers. we are going to 100% fund those positions, they are only 82% filled at this time. >> 14,899 are correctional officers. >> if, correctional officers, the individuals that you would think in your mind are on the units safeguarding -- >> you said 40,000, that is your total, right? >> that is our total. >> what are you authorized for

for correctional officers? >> for correctional officers were authorized at that 14,899 number and it is 100% funded. >> are you sure you're not authorized about 20,000? >> 20,000 of the correctional officers series position, that is 20,466, then include correctional officers, lieutenant, correctional services officers later in our receiving and discharging unit and also that never includes correctional counselors. >> 14,899 is what you have today. do you know what you had six months ago? >> no, senator, i do not have that number. >> do you know how many new officers have been hired over the last six months? >> i know that we have made progress in the last year, we have moved our overall recruitment and retention from 87% last year to 90%. we moved our correctional officer phil from 70s into about 82% now.

>> in 2022, the congress passed a law requiring your employees spend 90% of their time on their primary responsibility. so if a correctional officer spends 90% of his time being a correctional officer, an hvac technician spends 90% of his time doing hvac work, the bureau has not complied with that law, to my knowledge, expense ago when you were here i asked how much time your employers are spending on average on their primary responsibility. he did not have an answer but do have an answer for that today? be negative, senator. it is different and every institution. in some of our institutions we will take thompson right now, because we have been able to lower the mission, we need a fewer employees and so we are not relying on augmentation over time when you look at brooklyn, we are reliant on a substantially because of the lack of staffing. many of my officers are working 16 hours regularly and we are

having to engage in augmentation on a daily basis of that institution. which as you well know, while those psychologists or teachers, however, being augmented is fully trained and prepared to do that work, it also means that they are not able to do their current job as you are alluding to. >> i take your point that you could average across all of your facilities, that average is not particularly meaningful because the facility is its own world and a facility that is well-balanced will have everyone doing 90% of the job whether hvac or teacher, counselor, correctional officer, another facility might be unbalanced and rely heavily on augmentation over time, is that right? >> that is correct, senator. af in those facilities where we are fully staffed or more full staff, we have just given clear direction to those wardens to begin over hiring so that if they are in an accounting, we are actually able to bring in correctional officers, we will hire them and tty them to some

of these other institutions in more dire straits. >> based on your answer, i assume you know the answer on a facility by facility basis, you have that data available to wo you? >> that is correct, senator. >> is a data public? >> i will have to check on that and see. >> if it is, please send us the link, if it is not, could we get that data? >> we will work with your staff to see what we can share. >> i want to talk briefly about challenges with staffing. your correctional officer start gym five available making 48,000 a year, my understanding is they can top out at 74,000 a year by contrast. border patrol officers can start as high as 68,000 and they can top out at 113,000. even without becoming a supervisor. does the bureau have trouble competing with the pay of other federal law enforcement agencies? >> it is great trouble competing with other law enforcement agencies. co as we look at state corrections in new york, individuals can make two or three times more working for the new york city

corrections department on the federal bureau of prisons. so even after we issued a 35% retention bonus at brooklyn, that allows someone after a few years to be making $90,000 a year, for state corrections in the sameey time period to be making about $130,000 a year. >> in the last major appropriations bill congress passed on december, 2022, congress asked the bureau to consider increasing pay to match those other agencies and ask for a review to be submitted no later than last june. has that review been submitted yet? >> i don't know, i will check. i will tell you this year i was able to increase the base salary of correctional officers by 2000, i did not have the authority to go beyond that. >> please do and get back to us. one final point since you and mr. horowitz was talked about contraband in prisons, i think maybe the most dangerous kind of contraband in prisons is

cell phones. cell phones aren't going to kill anyone themselves but they enable the commission of many other heinous crimes and present, that is one reason why i have introduced the cell phone jamming reform act which would make it clear to safe prisons that they can use targeted jamming and bought cell phone signals and present housing units. we have had some resistance from the telecom industry, i wish they would come to their senses on this issue but ms. peters, have you conducted pilot programs in your facilities on micro jamming and managed access systems? >> we have, senator. at a variety of our institutions, in terms of detection and jamming, both proved very successful. what my employees are telling me is a detection versus the jamming is the most helpful because then we can investigate and figure out who actually has it, who brought it in and saw the greater flow of the contraband problem. >> mr. horowitz coming since

you addressed the issue, would you like to make any comment on cell phone prisons based on your works? >> senator, couldn't agree more. i often say a cell phone in a prison is a deadly weapon. we investigated a murder for hire carried out on a federal correctional officer in puerto rico. where the hit was put on by someone in the prison. one of the things i've asked for and be happy to work with you on this, smuggling a cell phone into a prison is a federal misdemeanor. it is not a felony. and, i was surprised by that, frankly. having been there for many years, i assumed of course it had to be and that it had to be a felony, it isn't. as you know, we have a major problem with sexual assault in prison, not just on female inmates, obviously on female inmates but also on male inmates. one of the things we found is the contraband is used to groom inmates. is the way to gain favor by a

correctional officer for b.o.p. employee. we prosecuted a chaplain in federal facility in new hampshire for bringing in contraband cell phones and other items. so, we should not have to make the bribery case which is what we have to do to bring the felony charge, as you know, is a former prosecutor. that is what we strive to do. but finding the person with a contraband, it is a lot easier to make those cases. we get a lot more prosecuting, you can get a lot of the very small fraction of b.o.p. staff who are engaged in this conduct come out, because the other thing i know, i met with president white the other day. i know this from my time as a prosecutor in new york, there is not a single b.o.p. employee who wants to work next to a correct employee or a dangerous inmate. right? who is engaging in crimes.

we all have to focus on that. >> thank you, senator cotton, i think there are some variable an suggestions for legislation, happy to work on a partisan basis to see if we can move some of those forward. i would like to ask you, be more specific, we have talked about staffing and so many different respects and i'm sure senator booker will address many of them this afternoon. but i would like to zero in on the health staff because it appears this is one of the real deficiencies and we have identified as we move forward to the report is that identifying potentially suicidal individuals which takes some expertise in mental health, managing medication, mental health treatment, is going to call for a certain specialty training or education , let me ask esther peters, what has been your luck in

recruiting people in this category? >> it has been a challenge, as we have discussed before we had to consider ourselves a healthcare organization. so many of our people come to us with severe mental health issues and they are 10 years older biologically than their chronological age based on the lack of preventative healthcare and lifestyle choices. recruiting and retaining medical professionals has been been incredibly difficult. i visited some of our institutions where health services was half filled and for having to tty people across the country. you're doing a variety of things, we are learning into telehealth in order to ensure more quality care. e, our recruitment for medical professionals, we just approved a 25% recruitment incentive. we have individual incentives across the country for doctors that said they were going to leave, psychologists said they were going to leave, and so we are doing everything in our authority, but i will tell you that doctors in our care can leave and make almost double

what they are making for us in the community. this is something we are working on, this is something that is very troubling, but we have to figure out, again, like i said with correctional officers, how to increase the base pay for our medical professionals so that we can provide the quality care we need to provide. >> are you familiar with the national health service corps? >> yes. >> are there applicants for jobs in bureau prisons who are going to have an opportunity for loan forgiveness if they take those jobs? >> senator, i don't know the answer for that but i'm happy to look into it and get back to pick >> i want to look into it as well. i think we have to -- general horowitz, do you have any thoughts on that? >> i don't know the answer but i think it is something that is important to look into. we have also noted the importance of the public health service professionals and considering how to bring more of those. >> i think if we are looking for incentive to bring in healthcare professionals and

they are certainly needed so many different places but needed in bureau prisons, the incentive of loan forgiveness may make a difference. at least we ought to try it. i also want to go out on a limb and believe that the federal level, we have so many areas where we need healthcare professionals that we ought to think more seriously about some type of program that is federally inspired the results in a workforce that is absolutely needed at this point. senator welch, do you need a minute more to adjust the circumstances or are you ready? >> thank you for -- >> i am recognizing it. >> i appreciate that. thank you very much. director peters, is good to see you. we talked about the situation where we do not have a residential reentry, it is a serious issue. individuals with 12 months or less. really makes a big

difference, they can receive assistance with housing treatments on employment. it has been proven as you know trees use recidivism. in vermont, this is pretty shocking to me and to senator sanders and to congressman, vermont is only -- one of only two states that does not have the benefit of that facility. the y being the other one and i think you're looking to get a replacement. i know that when we spoke about this, you had indicated we were going to get one, that you clarified that you misspoke and it was going to be a reporting facility instead. reporting facility is not worth it. reporting would mean that people have to go to providence, rhode island, that is a long way from burlington or they would have to go to

manchester, new hampshire, very long way, or maybe boston. so it just doesn't do the job. and i think after you clarified that, you indicated that the vermont delegation researched the matter and determined that a residential facility was necessary, you might change course. we did our research and most prominently among them, we checked with the attorneys and most importantly with our federal judges. chairman dermot, i ask unanimous consent to be able to submit a letter to director peterson to the record. >> objection. >> we were surprised, this is the delegation, when we got a letter from the bureau of prisons on friday indicating that you plan to proceed against our consensus, and not provide this residential treatment facility. as i mentioned, our office did speak to the stakeholders including the chief judge crawford, and he wrote to you

in december expressing his strong belief that vermont absolutely, absolutely needs a reentry center and chairman gentle, i request permission to send that for the record. >> without objection. >> he wrote that the lack of a facility in vermont interferes with every prosocial activity necessary to return to normal life including the long-term employment connecting with family and locating housing. chief justice crawford added our judges all believe -- our judges all believe that opening a residential reentry center in vermont is a significant step toward the improvement of public safety and rehabilitation. the chief judge attached a report from the chief probation officer further outlining a

need for a center. i have heard this from our attorneys both from the defense and prosecution side. i understand you have received this letter. so, what is the deal? how do we get our residential reentry program in vermont so that we are not essentially the only state in the country that does not have the opportunity to provide the benefit of the services? to people who really need them >> reporter: thank you, center. first off, thank you for the conversations we have had around this table and individually one-on-one around this issue. i am always happy to take in new information. >> with get to the point. >> -- we haven't received, and i will get the point, senator. our market analysis determined since there are so few individuals releasing that for vermont it is not financially feasible for a residential reentry center and we are actually really optimistic about the reporting center. the day reporting center will provide all of the wraparound services -- >> i don't think you have provided the market study to us to take a look at.

>> senator, i can work with your team and mind to see what we can share with you around the study. >> i don't understand about the market study, we have got the probation officers, the judges and the district saying, hey, we need this. why is it that vermont would be the only one state in the entire nation, along with hawaii temporarily, that doesn't have it? why do we need a market study, we have defendants, we have judges, we have the need. >> senator, again, it is all- around resources and trying to balance -- >> that is a different question. that is a different question, you're seeing the market study says we don't need as much as new york city, maybe that is right, but we need it in vermont, that is what i am saying that every other state has it basically, and we don't. >> center, again, i am happy to take any new information you have to and look at it, of

course, but we do feel confident in our decision around the day reporting center. >> all right, we have got to work on this more. they are two totally different things. the reentry center provides resources to people, when they are coming back into society. the reporting center, they are going to ask me no, it is a long way, there is no follow- through, you do not get the resources and it is just astonishing to senator standers and to me, that somehow this market study says vermont is unique and that we do not need or deserve or should have the benefit of the same services that are provided in every other state in this great country of ours. >> senator, again, happy to further have conversation, -- >> just to be clear, i will talk to you but what we want is the reentry center and that is what our chief judge is saying we need. >> thank you, senator welch. >> with the bureau of prisons like correctional officers supervise adult inmates if the officer had not successfully cleared an fbi, national crime information background or

fingerprint checks? >> senator, my understanding is our policies and practices require that background check prior to employment. >> if that is the case, i would like to say something not just for you but for my colleagues, if folks who haven't passed an fbi ground -- background check are allowed to supervise adults, we should not give them custody on a company, alien children, however the office of refugee resettlement does not require fbi background checks for all sponsors and refuses to give law enforcement information on the sponsors, even if the child's well-being is in question. it seems to me this would have to stop and i hope this committee brings in more witnesses on this subject and takes up meaningful legislation to protect our kids. mr. horowitz, i am going to take advantage of you being

here to ask a follow-up question. i wrote to you on november the second last year about your review of the justice department obtaining on records of members of congress and staff, in response you said your report will likely cover most if not is all of the eight categories of information that i asked for. it has been said that the justice department obtained these records to investigate alleged leaks related to the discredit crossfire investigation, but i am concerned that the justice department used this as an excuse to keep tabs on congress as we conducted oversight of the department relating to the crossfire. can you provide an update on the scope of your review and when you expect to issue your findings? and the second question related to this is, did the justice department apply the same investigative standards to its agents and

staff or other officials in the xavier branch who may have leaked the information, as did members of congress and our staff? >> thank you, senator. will give you an update on timing and where we are. we are planning to cover, as i said in my letter to you, the issues you referenced in the categories we spoke about their. we were actually in the process of drafting the report. so, we will hopefully be able to get out in a reasonable amount of time. i will just say, because so much of these issues to cover highly classified information, as you know from our prior reviews, we have to go through e the department and the various intelligent community processes to get to the point where we can issue it. so, i always put that caveat in any reports we have that involve classified information.

but we are working to get it done, we have made good progress. and the second question, the issue you addressed is one we are also assessing. >> they do exactly the same thing for their own staff. >> that is one of the issues we are assessing and we will report on that, senator. >> director peters, in february, 2024, justice department, the inspector general report on deaths in the bureau of prison facilities found the fcc hazleton had 14 deaths from 2014 to 2021. last year, september 12th, 23, i along with chairman dermot, senator's mansion and thibodeau wrote to you about additional allegations of serious misconduct occurring at fcc hazleton. some of the allegations include prison staff falsifying records involving releasing the wrong inmate prison escapes, inmate medical assessment, time

attended sheets and stuff's physical assaulting inmates. so, you have yet to respond to our letter. why not and what are you doing to straighten out the significant problems at hazleton that we brought to your attention? >> thank you, senator. we take all of those allegations very seriously and when we learn that someone has not done the job that we have required of them, we investigate it and hold them accountable. hazleton, like many of our institutions, is suffering from a lack of staffing. we are having difficulty recruiting and retaining there, one of the things that we have done recently is we have actually closed down a unit in order to deploy staff to the rest of the institution, and so like i said earlier, recruitment and retention is a crisis at the federal bureau of prisons and hazleton is not alone in that problem. >> is the problem that i brought to your attention

entirely related to the number of people you have on staff, and nothing else? >> reporter: senator, i think it is a variety of things. we talked about contraband and having to tackle the very serious issues of contraband inside our institutions. as you look at the older facility of hazleton and the maintenance repair backlog, i think that can add to it. i think we also have to talk a lot about the work that the inspector general and i have been working on to clear up our backlogged investigations. the number of staff that we have added to our office of internal affairs, when i started there were less than 30 employees in that office and now we are looking at almost 150 was direct oversight, directly to central office, in order to not only sure of that backlogged but to hold people accountable in a swift and sure fashion. >> thanks to both of you for answering my questions. >> thanks, senator grassley. i believe senator kennedy still has first-round opportunity and i understand senators booker

and ossoff would like second- round opportunities. senator kennedy. >> thank you, mr. chairman. general, how are you? >> i am doing well, good to see you, senator. >> i am a big fan. director peters, you are the director of the bureau of prisons, is that right? >> that is correct, sir. >> you use to run the corrections system in oregon, op right? >> that is correct. >> yeah, oregon legalize drugs,c is that right? >> that is correct. >> oregon is about to reverse that, is that correct? >> senator, i am not familiar with the policy proposed to reverse that. >> you just ignored oregon? >> oregon still has a very special place in my heart, sir. >> you have not read any of the articles about the reversal? >> i have not, senator. >> you don't know anything about it? in the correct, sir. >> okay, while. you are in charge of implement

the first at back, director? >> that is correct. >> how many criminals have you released into the first at act? >> first up act for the overall release since the initiation of the first up act is, i have the exact number in front of a -- me. >> you don't know off the top of your head? >> sorry, senator. so, 70% of those that were released, we have about 30,000 individuals that have been released since the first at back. >> so you have released 30,000 criminals on the first step act? okay. how many of themreleased them, you contact any of their victims to say we are about to let this guy out? >> senator, it's my understanding that the notification have been through the u.s. attorney's office, but i will check into that and get back to you. >> you don't know? >> i do not. >> have you followed up with the u.s. attorneys and said, we are about to let this guy out we want to be sure the victim is contacted.

>> as a former victims advocate i sure that value. i will check on that process. >> but you don't know that is happening. while. of the 30,000 criminals use leadfree how many have come back and committed a crime again? >> that number is one we are still looking at as it relates to the recidivism rate for those that are released on the first step act. >> you don't have anybody at the bureau that can count? >> i do not have that number in front of me. x >> let me get this straight. the first step act was passed in 2018. this is 2024. my right so far? >> that is correct. mb >> that is six years. ma you have let 30,000 criminals go . do you know how many of them committed another crime and came back? >> i don't have that number in front of me. >> you run the bureau of prisons. >> that is correct. >> how many employees do you have?

>> about 40,000 employees.'s >> oh my god. general, i know you have a lot to do, but could you give us a hand let's find out whether the first step act worked and if we have released 30,000 criminals after six years, our director here does not know how many have committed another crime and come back. can you help us? >> senator, i can certainly follow up on that issue. i will say in terms of work we have done in the past for example with compassionate release and going to the bureau of prisons, this is before director peters was there, and asking them for data on compassionate release because that is one of the issues that's come up. >> excuse me for interrupting but i'm not talking about compassionate release.

my colleague said that we were told it would save money and be in the interest of public safety to release criminals from prison. i did not vote for it but majority rules. so congress did it. ms. peters, director peters at the bureau of prisons and her colleagues released 30,000 all of whom are there for a reason. they did not just go to prison for a free toaster. there were there for a reason. her department let them go and after six years we do not have the slightest idea, not a single one of the 40,000 of her employees know how many have committed a second crime and come back. how theare we supposed to figure out whether it worked? >> senator -- >> people ought to hide their head in a bag that you can't

come before congress and answer that question. i'm sorry. i interrupted you with my speech. >> that is okay. i was just -- my bottom-line point was i have often looked to those questions on things like compassionate release and other programs. one of the challenges we have found is the department just does not have halfway houses. congress spending about a half e billion dollars a year on halfway houses. there's not great recidivism data on that either. >> before we do this we need to find out. i believe in justice. i believe in treating everybody fairly, but there are people out there. i don't know why. if i make it to heaven i'm going to ask. they are not mixed up. they are not confused. they are not sick. it's not that their mom and daddy didn't love them enough. they heard other people and take other people's stuff and we have to separate them from society and the director let 30,000 of these folks go and

cannot tell me how many of them have come back. it takes my breath away. of 40,000 people. how many of your 40,000 people are coming into work or are still working from home? >> a super majority of employees come to work every day because we are running 24/7. >> what percentage? >> the percentage is quite high. i don't have the exact number. >> maybe that is your problem. if they are coming to work they can't give us the answer. i have gone over. i'm sorry. this is why people hate government and don't trust government. >> i would like to respond concerning the grassley durbin first step act signed into law

by president donald trump. want to repeat that because this notion that it is soft on crime, i don't consider chuck grassley soft on crime. i don't consider donald trump soft on crime. let me tell you the numbers. some 30,000 released. the recidivism rate for people released under the first step act is 12.4%. es seven out of every eight individuals released under the law have not been rearrested or charged with the new crime. by comparison, doj estimates the decade before the first step act was passed, 43% of the people incarcerated were rearrested within three years of their release. is the first step act working? i would submit that it is. the point that i am making his we decided with the trump administration and senator

grassley's leadership that we were going to take a different approach to releasing people from prison. we would give them an opportunity to be trained, educated, skilled and more prepared for release because 80% are going to be released someday. we don't want them to commit another crime or create another victim. i would submit this as a success. don't put your head in the bag. stand up tall and try to make it better. i am ready to do that, but the first step act was a constructive reform of the penal system and i think it was a good idea and stand by it. >> think you. i appreciate that. you make it points. here is my point. i did not vote for the first step act because i was afraid this was going to happen . what i hear you saying is that of the 30,000 the director released, over 3000 committed another

crime and her back. here is my question. how come you know that and she doesn't? >> they are supposed to give us this information and they don't know. >> she is under oath and when you ask for numbers she wants to be sure to tell you a number you can live with. i have this information. i think it is close to being 100% accurate but i think under oath that is so i say give her a fair opportunity to respond. >> but it is not your job. i appreciate the information and i want to see a study that shows that. i just don't understand why the director has no idea. she did not say she was uncertain and she wanted to go back and check. she said i don't know. i found that extraordinary. >> i'm assuming since she's under oath it's an honest answer. we have two individuals seeking a second round. senator parker e his first. >> i want to defend the

bipartisan work that we all did . 86 senators voted for it. the dramatic drop in recidivism rates that is not the bureau of prisons job to track. it's the justice department chop to track it. it is stunning. this has literally saved the united states hundreds of millions of dollars. it has lowered crime. the data shows we max people out in prison and don't prepare them. you cannot keep them by law. when people max out and don't have halfway houses or the resources, the recidivism rates are through the charts. we have to be smart on crime. one of the biggest growths of bureaucracy have seen in my life is the prison industrial compound and it is not making us safer. the second thing in your defense, the mission of the dop is not to necessarily track

folks after they are gone. from what i understand having to a lot of reading for a later hearing, that is not your mission. your mission is to hold lithem securely, prepare them and so forth. if we want to get the head of the justice department i'm all for grilling that but you are grilling folks that you are giving too little resources to do too much work. i have a lot of frustrations obviously with what's going on but i've watched you as a professional struggle mightily to meet the demands that are put on you in a moment where congress is not giving you the resources necessary to do your job. and facilities that are outrageously decrepit. your fy 22 is estimated to need $2 billion in funding to repair facilities. my challenge to you is requesting 200 million for repairs. congress allocated $59 million,

but is it not true that people are dying in the facilities because there's no air conditioning? >> senator, your data points about the maintenance repair backlog is absolutely spot on and it has grown to closer to 3 billion because we continue to have roofs that are crumbling. we continue to have hvac's that stop working. if you look at the many we typically get from congress it is about $100,000 a year to solve that three billion-dollar problem. the cost of one roof replacement alone is $1 million. >> this is a pattern. employees could leave the job and not make 10% more, 20%, but 100% more. when you have to hold somebody on a shift, what does that do to a family where they can pick up the kids for

school. >> i hear it all the time. it isn't just the physical wear- and-tear and mental wear-and- tear of that overtime and augmentation. >> i spoke to the capitol police when we had them working held over on shifts and they were not allowed to leave. now suddenly the whole family da is in crisis. >> that's right. we hear it all the time. they had it all planned out and the bureau of prisons messes with that. >> this is utterly shameful. of february report found that by october 2023 8% of the prison population was in solitary confinement. one thing i would like for you to address is the report noted significant racial disparities with lack individuals comprising less than half, 30% of the total federal prison population but represented over half, 59% of those in solitary.

can you address that? >> this issue has been studied across the country both in federal corrections and state corrections. often what we find is the level of gang activity that happens in side institutions often drives that number. it is still unacceptable to me. i think we have so much work to do in housing reform and we have to ask those hard questions about the disproportionate number of individuals of minority status. >> i hope that is something that my staff can work with you on as well. the final thing i want to say is, the chairman said it. i think there is room for a lot of bipartisan work to try to address these issues. the shameful this up what is happening as a result of the lack of funding for facilities, for personnel, and certain line items is outrageous

implications of the united states of america and support of law enforcement and create inhumane conditions in prison. one small point the inspector general brought out, i want to talk to senator cotton who is ranking on this committee is the idea of the inability to jam cell phone signals. and the fact that it is a misdemeanor to bring in something that you said under oath is tantamount to a deadly weapon. i am wondering on the jamming issue, the only push back my staff can say that they get is the need for federal public defenders when meeting with the client to be able to access the internet. is there a workaround that you see to that? and number two, do you think it would be enough of a deterrent if it was suddenly not a misdemeanor but a felony?

>> i think on both of those issues there is certainly a workaround. one of the issues, the fcc and technology companies have opposed or raised concerns in part because of the inability, i think and director peters can speak of this as well, to limit the jamming and interference to the grounds itself and the facility as opposed to some of the perimeter areas, particularly where there are homes nearby. be i think that those are some of the issues, but many state prisons have been doing this for years. california has been involved in jamming technology. over the years we have seen other states successfully do it. it is clearly doable. there are some areas they have to be careful about. >> if somebody is caught

sneaking a cell phone and they are fired. they lose their job. is that not enough? >> here is the issue. from the union standpoint if they are a union member, there is an ability to litigate that question on a misdemeanor. a felony charge, my understanding is they are out. my understanding is if it is a misdemeanor or never prosecuted, federal prosecutors are not taking this. nobody is getting this with there is lots of felonies to be prosecuted. that leaves it to the administrative process to deal with. that sometimes as i understand it does not result in the removal of individuals.

i have people that are happy to come speak to your staff and you as well where we have had cases involving sexual assaults that were the result of -- bringing in food is a misdemeanor. think how that is an enticement to female inmates. >> i agree with you. i want you to clarify for the record, when you say that nobody is prosecuted for federal misdemeanors. that's not an invitation to anybody to commit his demeanor -- misdemeanors. there are rare occasions where charges are brought i just wanted to be sure that you heard that. do not do federal misdemeanors. >> thank you for the help. senator oz off -- ossoff?

>> we refer all allegations to the office of inspector general once they review and determine there is nothing criminal in nature they give it back to us and we engage in the administrative investigation. >> let's update on the backlog. psi investigation a couple of years ago into the sexual assault of female inmates found that there was about 8000 back locked cases at oia. at that time about two years ago they told us it would take about two years to clear the backlog. bop just provided to my office and update that there are still over 7300 pending cases before oia. that is about a 7%

reduction. you said publicly in an interview last month that it would take about two years to clear the backlog. two years ago you said two years. this year, two years to clear the backlog. why and when will it be cleared? >> thank you, senator. i share your frustration in the time it is taking to clear the backlog. it has not been for lack of a plan. as i shared with you, we had just under 30 employees in the office of internal affairs worko since we last spoke it simply took us until last fall to get the positions filled. now we are at about 150 individuals who are in the office of internal affairs reporting directly to headquarters so there's the oversight you wanted. we have them fully trained and we are just starting to see a shift down of the backlog.

we are not just looking at the backlog. we are looking at other ways to clear the backlog by looking at -- as an example, how many of these investigations could actually be handled at a lower level, at the wharton level. if you have an employee that comes in five minutes late, you are considered a wall. that gets kicked to the office of internal affairs. we are asking if that really needs to be investigated by special agents at headquarters or is that something that can be handled more swiftly. >> i'm glad to hear you've added capacity and personnel and are looking to change procedure. when will it be cleared? >> i asked for that exact ar update before the hearing because i knew you would ask. the answers are that we are hoping to have it cleared within the next two years. >> i hope this is the last time that it will be two years but i do appreciate the effort you have clearly invested into trying to rectify this.

getting back to some of the staffing issues. again, i hope we can work together to find additional tools. we have been talking about how bop personnel are underpaid. you cannot compete in this labor market against law enforcement agencies. how much more do they need to be paid? >> thank you, senator. right now we have about 45% of employees receiving some form me of incentive. what we are finding in communities like new york, the new york department of corrections you can get paid two or three times more for working for them. the answer varies depending on where the facilities are and what issues we are faced with. in rural areas we are faced witr just having saturated the market. we have hired everybody that lives in those areas. in the urban areas we are competing as i said earlier

with fast food chains and grocery stores. >> i understand that the labor markets are regional. let me say it this way. how much more in the next school year does bop need to be appropriated in order to es resolve the fact that you cannot currently offer competitive salaries? what is the number? >> thank you, senator. i don't have that number today but we are looking at proposing a new salary rate table. my hr team is working on that data right now so we will have y that during the next budget ask. >> what concerns me is you have to go to doj and they have to go to omb and omb will come back and say, why do you need re this many more hundreds of millions or billions of dollars for personnel. if you can't testify that through some rigorous demonstration and analysis, your request for the ppr is going to be tonight. for the next presidential budget cycle are you going to have a specific number, a specific appropriation that you

need from the congress that is backed up by rigorous analysis to resolve this competitive salaries issue? >> we hope to have that number not just in the recruitment and retention category but around maintenance and repair backlog. >> my last point -- my team is trying to look at the staffing tool. i cannot -- the senate judiciary access is a lot of information and we conduct a lot of oversight. we are asking you to come and review until you determine to use for staffing levels. i can't think of any reason why your office of legislative affairs would deny my staff and members of this committee the opportunity to view how the tool functions. i cannot think of any reason at all. we need to get our teams together, get in the room, look at the tool and see how it works. >> thank you. i said again and again we want

to be as transparent as possible. i suspect the reason is becausex it is a work in progress. >> we can look at works in progress. >> i'm happy to have this conversation with you. once it is completed we can have it be an outward facing product so the public could see a. that is still being deliberated by individuals inside the organization. >> please just let my team have a look. >> thank isyou. >> thank you senator ossoff. i want to thank all of the members that participated in the hearing today. i have made this a special item in the agenda of the committee to focus on corrections because i felt for a long time that we are fast and loose when it comes to assessing the procedure. we ought to see what happens nextkn for those that were in fact convicted and incarcerated as a result. historically,, we know some great people have things to say

about corrections. one of them i quoted before was nelson mandela who sentenced -- who served 18 years in prison on a remote island in south africa. he said, no one truly knows the nation until one has been inside its jails. the nation should know the judge and how it treats its highest assistance and lowest ones. a prison sentence should never be a death sentence. we are looking to have you, director peters. we are glad you took this job. it is a challenge and we think you handle it well. we don't agree on everything but that will never happen. i do respect you very much for all you are putting into this. general, you keep us honest. that is your job and you do it well. we are lucky to have you. for all of the workers at the bureau of prisons and

especially those, thank you. we could not keep the country safe without you. i appreciate all of those who make it possible. there will be some questions for the record. senator grassley will remind you that you did not respond and others will also. so thank you for being here today. this hearing stands adjourned. >> think you.

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