are watching live coverage on c- span3. in recent years more than 300 people have died of unnatural causes in custody of the presence. does have too often been the result of this management and operational failures. investigation by the marshall project and national public radio three years ago found that the thompson federal prison

in my home state of illinois has become one of the deadliest prisons in america because of the defunct a special management unit. i was shaken by the allegations in the article and asked inspector general ha'aretz to examine them. we will discuss the results today. after media reports late last year alleged that some adults in custody died while awaiting for necessary medical care, i called on bop to change its procedures, staff and supply medical units so incarcerated individuals could receive the care they needed. it is evident that many of the issues the committee has highlighted over the years included understaffing, overuse of restrictive housing and employee misconduct that will continue to have deadly consequences if they go unaddressed. the inspector general report identified 344 nonmedical deaths of adults in custody and it's reviewed period, 2014 to 2021 but the number that demonstrate increased risk to safety of

individuals with bop care. bop continues to struggle with contraband interdiction and lacks adequate treatment for thousands of individuals fighting addiction. understaffing, in particular in health and psychology services, strains their ability to provide quality care. violations of bop policy by staff present significant barriers to the bop's ability to ensure institutional safety. my colleague senator booker of the criminal justice subcommittee will hold a hearing on staffing crisis but i thank him for his leadership. the lengthy and ineffective discipline process fails to bring economy from staff misconduct. b.o.p. fails to use post death reviews and proper recordkeeping to identify corrective actions. this failure to learn from past

mistakes is most troubling when examining the role of restrictive housing and custodial deaths. suicides accounted for just over half of the 344 deaths cig reviewed but only half of those suicides occurred in restrictive housing, which is more known as solitary confinement. we have a stark reality when it comes to solitary confinement. this is cruel and unusual punishment that has been the normal in the united states for way too long. in 2012 i held the first ever congressional hearing on solitary confinement. at the time 8% of federal incarcerated individuals were intersected housing. after some progress under president obama, we have returned to the same percentage of people in solitary today. we know that overuse of solitary confinement causes lasting, irreparable, physical, emotional and mental harm to incarcerated people. it threatens public safety and strains prison budgets. i want to add a parenthetical,

i understand that some of the intimates we are talking are dangerous people who need to be isolated under certain circumstances. i am a realist about that. this consistent reference of 8% is unacceptable. earlier this month, the general accounting office released a report which i requested was senator . it found they have failed to implement 54 of the 87 recommendations from two prior studies unrestricted housing. the failure to decrease overreliance unrestricted housing is debbie. debbie. that is why we have the dangers the spring. director peters, i understand many issues have been problems for years. before you arrive. it is time for solutions and change the lives of hundred americans are at risk. my colleague is under the rather today and will not be able to join us.

senator grassley will be here momentarily to acknowledge of the opening of this committee meeting. he has another conflict in his schedule as well. i want to proceed. we will swear and the witnesses. each will have five minutes provide an opening statement and then round of questions from each. i asked individuals to please stand and raise your right hand. you say that testimony will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god. let the record reflect both have entered in the affirmative. we will start with inspector general horowitz. you may proceed . >> i could not hear. >> i am sorry. >> are you calling on me first? >> yes. thank you. >> thank you, chairman durbin. i also wanted to acknowledge

with me are the team that work on the desks and custody report print and visited sites including the present you mentioned in your opening statement. i have been inspector general for almost 12 years. every year i have included the b.o.p. in my annual report of the top management and performance challenges facing the department of justice. with some notable exceptions, the problems at the b.o.p. seem to only increase. last year the b.o.p. was added to the gao high risk list . to be clear that these are not new problems. yesterday we released a compendium of over 100 publicly issued oig report sends 2002 reflecting the systemic challenges of the b.o.p. that we have identified over the past two decades. many of the 344 deaths that you mentioned that we found were due to suicide, homicide, drug overdose or other unknown factors. we reviewed the deaths in

custody report have a direct connection to the challenges. by the way, as we referenced in our report so did the high- profile death of inmate jeffrey epstein in 2019 and james woody bulger in 2018 as we detailed in those public reports that were issued. when the public wonders whether the treatment of those two high profile inmates was unique, the answers, sadly, from our desk in custody report is that it was not. many of the desk we discussed in the report were the result of similarly serious management and operational failures. these include long-standing management and operational challenges that involve serious staffing shortages including correctional and healthcare positions. single selling of inmates, inappropriate mental healthcare designations of inmates. ineffective contraband interdiction and outdated camera security systems. staff failure to follow b.o.p. policies and procedures for and

and ineffective untimely staff disciplinary process. indeed, one or more of these challenges was a contributing factor in many of the inmate deaths. and these long-standing challenges continue to present eccentric and critical threat to the b.o.p. safe and humane management of inmates in its care and custody. for example, we found that in nearly one third of the inmate deaths within our scope, contraband, drugs or weapons contribute or appear to contribute to the death the rampant perforation of contraband is a major challenge for the b.o.p.. resulting in the b.o.p. partially closing its federal penitentiary in atlanta in 2021. with honesty and integrity. ta

the oig dedicates significant resources to investigate alleged criminal wrongdoing and b.o.p. facility, tickly sexual assault and smuggling as we have seen through our ongoing criminal investigation where the warden, chaplet and several other inmates have been convicted of sexual assault charges, failing to identify and address criminal wrongdoing can spiral and poison institutions culture . relatedly, our ongoing use with our audit of the use of restraints was prompted, by allegations that inmates at usp thompson, which you reference. they were routinely placing four-point restraints for extended periods of time and inmates were mistreated while restrained. this unit was closed by director peters in response to

these and other concerns. let me turn to suicide, which comprise, as you noted, the majority of the desk we reviewed her that half of those indicted by suicide were in single cell confinement despite policy that strongly disfavored the use of single selling. almost half the suicides occurred in restrictive housing units. over 60% of inmates who died by suicide had been designated at the lowest mental health treatment level. none of these are new issues. they had repeated identified them in our prior reports and the gao has also raised them. we made 12 new recommendations in our death and custody report. and the b.o.p. agreed with all of them and we will carefully monitor the b.o.p.'s limitation of them. effectively addressing these widespread systemic issues at the b.o.p.

requires a long-term vision and strategy from b.o.p. and department leadership with support from the office of management and budget, congress and other important stakeholders but the problems we have identified in our oversight work over the past 20 years will not be solved overnight but they must be addressed with urgency to protect the health, safety and security of b.o.p. staff and inmates . and to enable inmates to successfully return to our communities upon the release from prison. towards that end, i appreciated my quarterly meetings with director peters and her desire to meet with me regularly. it is the first time in my 12 years as ig that has occurred. i think we have made some important progress working together. thank you and i would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have. >> director peters. >> good morning, chairman durbin. and members of the committee. i am pleased to be here with

you and inspector general horowitz to discuss this report. >> will you pull the microphone closer to you. >> we welcome, agree with and are implementing the reports recommendations print and have plans to go even further and taken additional steps to mitigate unexpected deaths in custody. i have spent my entire professional career working in the public safety field, including as a victim advocate working with victims who lost loved ones. i know any unexpected death of an adult in our care and custody is tragic. it changes the lives of that person's family and loved ones forever. we also experienced these deaths as a heavy blow. i have been in our institution in the days following unexpected deaths and i've seen are in place suffering due to the loss. our core mission always is to care for those in our custody in hopes that they leave our facilities prepared to be good neighbors.

when our best efforts are not successful and that does occur, we initiate review processes to understand the cause of the desk so we can prevent similar desks going forward. we can do better here and must ensure that our reviews go deep enough and our documentation is clear enough to support the reviews. our psychological assessments conclude that many individuals who come to us come with mental illness and substance use disorders making them more susceptible to suicide, overdose and homicide. to combat these deaths we work on root causes and have coordinate evidence-based treatments. we train our employees to recognize those attempting suicide and refer at risk people for help and respond to attempts. and also train on the appropriate use of cpr, aed's, the locks zone and cutdown tools. insert are in place have access

to those tools in the workplace. the report notes that suicides occurred when people were single celled are interested in housing. that is why we revote special training to those who work interested in housing and limit the use of single celling. we have housing reforms underway now that will reduce the amount of time adults and custody spend in restrictive housing for disciplinary violations. we are creating a special post in restrictive housing to help those in custody transition from that restrictive housing environment to the general population. we are going to add employees in restrictive housing during overnight shift. we continuously work to combat contraband to reduce homicides and overdoses. this includes heightened screening of mail, detecting and instructing drones and terminating cellular communications. and continually monitoring intelligence and gang activity.

to harness all of this intelligence, we are creating a new chief inspector position to identify systemwide patterns and problems, including that that would prevent deaths in our custody. on a departmental level, the deputy attorney general has formed a working group of experts to better prevent suicides. i want to be perfectly clear, our employees are our everything and fully staffed institutions and well trained employees save lives. it is no secret that our agency is in crisis as a relates to recruitment and retention. we are recruiting and utilizing incentives to maintain the employees that we have while our efforts over this past year have clean results, we are still faced with an inability to compete with the private sector and other agencies. as an example, at a federal prison about an hour outside of boston, a correctional officer quit his job for a better offer with better pay.

the better offer, working at the local grocery store. on the law enforcement side, and add is advertising that city correctional officers can make around $130,000 after a few years on the job. while in the same amount of time, our officers, after we have implement the 35% retention bonus, it would be making about $90,000. the story is the same throughout the country. we need more resources to carry out our mission and implement our mission and reach our goals. chairman durbin, and members of the committee, thank you, for this opportunity to speak on behalf of the federal bureau of prisons and i welcome your questions. >> thank you very much. my interest in this issue started many years ago when i read an article in the atlantic magazine about the impact of isolation in solitary confinement on the human mind.

not just in the correctional setting but prisoners of war. he restaurants our former colleague, john mccain, with what he went through after five years of that type of treatment and what impact it had on him. it reminded us that the majority of prisoners would ultimately be released if their damage and serving process and the time in prison they will take that damage out into open society and others may suffer. this is been a longtime issue. it has been 12 years since the first hearing under my leadership occurred in this committee. i have boys concerned over solitary confinement and pleaded with directors now and before you to do something about it. i'm going to reintroduce my legislation, solitary about reform act to limit the use of the practice. director peters, despite the decrease total population since you were sworn in as director

in august of 2022, the percentage and total of individuals and restricted housing is actually higher than it was at that time. as of this month, approximately 7.9% or 11,179 people are currently being held in some form of restricted housing. an increase of .6% since september of 2022. director peters, you have pointed to your contract with the national institute of justice. when asked about your plans to address receipt of housing, what is the status of the study? >> thank you, senator. the study is underway. and ij has issued the contract. i have actually been on site and visiting the studies looking at our policies, practices and interviewing employees. we are also not just waiting for the results of that report. we are beginning to implement restrictive housing reform. currently we have plans to approve a new policy that will

reduce the amount of time an individual can be sanctioned for disciplinary purposes. as i mentioned, we are adding additional resources to solve this problem. in the short-term, we shut down the special management unit in quick order last year. >> here is my concern. since my first hearing on this issue in 2012, there have been multiple reviews of b.o.p. policy. the latest came out earlier this month when a report was published that was requested. according to their report b.o.p. has not fully implemented before of the 87 recommendations from two prior studies on improving restrictive housing practices. one of those studies were conducted by an external consultant but it made 34 recommendations and only 16 have been implemented. president biden ordered the

attorney general to implement in 2022 853 recommendations and only 17 have been implemented. the time for studies is over. the death rate in our prisons is unacceptable. damage to mental health is unacceptable. my question, what steps can you commit to today to immediately reduce restrictive housing populations? >> thank you, senator. i think ready things we are doing today including that policy that has been long- standing with our national union and that will decrease the amount of time that individuals can be sanctioned to restrictive housing for disciplinary purposes. the data revealed that many of the individuals that are in restrictive housing are in there, many times of their own choice. they fear their ability to walk in general population. we are working on creating cultures and environments that are more normal and humane bird

of those individuals feel comfortable in general populations. as i mentioned in my opening remarks, we are creating positions who will work in restrictive housing and their sole responsibility will be working with those individuals who do not want to leave restrictive housing and help them transition into general population. we did this in the state of oregon and it was very successful. we are looking for to ruling that out this year. we are also looking at best practices across the country and around the globe to implement changes. as i shared with you last time we met, this is filling with strategic planning that we have rebooted our mission, our values . many of the goals that we are working on will tie into restricted housing. both a strong plan around restricted housing reform and building morale and working on our recruitment and retention issues, which are the core of many of the issues as the

inspector general pointed out. >> what percentage of people have volunteered to be in the housing? >> that number is almost 40%. we are looking at the data as we get even closer into the data, it might be hard the mat. we have individuals that are categorized as pc status, which falls into the 40% but also individuals that are on transition status. those too could fit into that category. two aside from that category, those that aren't incarcerated because of the danger to others , prisoners and cellmates, i would like to ask, do accept the premise that those are put in richard housing involuntary run the risk of serious mental illness or worst ? >> senator, i would argue that everyone who is in restrictive housing will suffer of some form of mental or physical damage.

those that are agreeing or wanting to be in restrictive housing need to be educated on the fact that is not where they belong but we need to be able safely house them in gp. just because they volunteer to be there does not mean the ethical and mental wear and tear is not happening for them as well. i think that what the position of trying to create will help combat. we also have reintegration units for those individuals. we have step down programs and units that help people get out of restrictive housing. we need to do better there as well. >> thank you. senator blackburn. >> thank you, mr. chairman. good to see you again. always appreciate our conversations with you. i know are hearing today is focused on deaths of the incarcerated. i want to change the topic just a little bit and look at the treatment of our b.o.p. officers . and focus on what is

happening with some of the assaults. that is against our staff, b.o.p. staff . not only the physical but ptsd. some of those issues that occur . yesterday, i introduced the safer prisons act. it would double the maximum term of imprisonment for assaulting a b.o.p. correctional officer . director peters, for you, i know you would agree that these assaults prevent a real danger for the prisons but i would like to have your support on the safer prisons act and have you support doubling that maximum term. >> thank you, senator. there are processes with the department of justice in terms

of components being able to support legislation. i will tell you that the safety and security of our employees is essential. they are everything. if they do not feel safe then we have lost the core of our mission. >> let me ask you this, you mention hiring and retention as an issue. do you think the safety or the lack of safety and protection plays into that difficulty in hiring and retention? >> i think we do our best augmentation overtime to ensure the posts that need to be filled are felt but you and i have talked before, augmentation is a great resource in the short-term we have been using in the long term to solve a long-term recruitment and retention problem. it is making our people exhausted. they are related with overtime, augmentation impacts fsa programming and operations. visiting is sometimes canceled because we don't have the people to support those posts. we have a lot of work to do in this area.

we have found every incentive and direct hire authority and everything that we can but we need to go further >> you and i have pretty discussed jeffrey epstein the chairman knows i have been trying to subpoena his flight logs and the little black book. i think it is essential as we look to break apart these trafficking rings that not only are here in the u.s. but have grown to be global entities. $150 billion a year business, globally, trafficking in human beings. primarily women and girls. while epstein was in b.o.p.'s custody, did you ever have access to his unredacted a flight logs or to maxwell's little black book? >> as a former victims advocate i know that you and i share values around combating trafficking. the epstein situation happened before my tenure at the federal bureau of prisons i was not a

part of any of that evaluation and defer to the inspector general for those questions. >> senator, i don't know the answers but we can surely make an inquiry. i would like to have an answer in writing, if you will. >> we will asked the b.o.p.. we do not have the information you're looking for. i appreciate that but i would like a response. director peters, there is, we have heard that b.o.p. is helping to transport migrants from the southern border into the country. the bureau has confirmed that it has provided transportation for migrants sense cbp has been inundated with a surge at the southern border. we have talked before about the extensive staffing challenges

at b.o.p. on the negative consequences that come with that. are you comfortable with having to dedicate your resources that are already stressed to alleviate president biden's border search ? >> as law enforcement agency inside the departments, we, of course, support other components in helping with crisis. >> let me ask you this. my time is about to run out but have you transport an individual who was on the terrorist watch list? >> i do not know the answer that question. >> look into that and respond in writing. >> i will have my team look into it and we will get back to you with information. >> my time is up. as always, i'm going to mention the memphis facility. you and i have such an ongoing conversation around that. i do look forward to getting an

update on that from you. >> thank you, senator. i did check this morning and it looks like the timelines we provided are on target. >> excellent thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator blumenthal. >> thanks for having this hearing. correctional officers, as i know from having been the united states attorney and attorney general of our state in connecticut, are among the hardest working and least appreciated, whether at the state level or federal level, they have to deal with dangerous situations every day. their work is out of public site for good reason because they are in confinement situations i am very sympathetic to the point that you made about the need for retention, recruitment and appreciation of

the working conditions and the compensation that they deserve. i wonder, short of additional compensation, whether there are working conditions issues that could be addressed, mandated overtime, other kinds of demands placed on them that can be mitigated through better scheduling, better accommodations for them in their leisure moments during the job. >> thank you, senator. i appreciate those comments greatly. they are unsung heroes. they are people that don't get lifted up. i will say to any other agency, i think correctional officers have the toughest beat and public safety. one and three have ptsd. many are exhausted with overtime and augmentation.

we have to change the cultures inside our institutions. we are working on creating more normalized and humanized environments so they feel less institutional. our maintenance and repair backlog is about $3 billion. when i visit our institutions, our wardens are just as excited to show me the new fsa programming, treatment as they are the walls that are crumbling and the style wears -- stairwells that are coming but that is no place for people to live and work we have a lot to do to change the environment for our correctional officers. the federal survey says that the federal bureau of prisons is the worst place to work in federal government. we have a lot of work to do to help support our correctional officers who are exhausted >> correctional officers work behind bars. >> that is right. >> they work eight hours a day, sometimes more with people, let us be blunt who have often committed very violent acts that put them behind bars.

the more we can do to improve those institutional settings, the more we can change the environment for them and the way they react to the challenges that they face. would you agree? >> i agree wholeheartedly. while we have issued every authority in our power. we have increased the base salary for ceos by $2000. we have recruitment and intention essential across the country. the bottom line, as i said in my opening comments, we need to pay them more. retention incentive and recruitment incentives are mandates. we have to figure out how to increase the base salary so we can hire the best and the brightest and keep them >> mr. horowitz , in 2014 i led an effort called the death in custody reporting act. it included, among other things, a requirement for a study. we are here 10 years after the

passage of that measure. there has been no study of the data with respect to arrest related and in custody deaths. i agree wholeheartedly with the chairman that the time for studies is over, we need action. studies, sometimes, can be informative. and if they can guide action in the right direction. would you agree that they should be done? >> absolutely, senator. when other is we undertook this work was because there was not data out there. we should not have to be the first line of defense on these issues. it should be the department itself and the component itself that does that. it is not happening as it should. >> you point out, i think, and directors make the point as well. half of the deaths by suicide have occurred with respect to prisoners who are in single

cell housing or in solitary confinement. i recognize that there are significant mental health components to the reason for the suicides. the correlation between that fact, isolation and single cell , and death by suicide maybe ought to give us reason to change some of those policies. would you agree? >> absolutely, senator. i think there are several figures that jump out here. what is the fact that half of the folks are, roughly half, are in single cell the last half are in restrictive housing. the one i mentioned in my opening is that over 60% of the suicide of the individuals who died by suicide were in the lowest mental health category. of the four categories, they were deemed to not need mental

health treatment. that is over 60% of people that is very concerning. that is something that needs to be addressed. something, frankly, we have highlighted before as a problem and issue. >> thank you. i want to thank the chairman for having this hearing and thank you both for your public service. correctional policy is not the most glamorous but it is among the most important of what we do in criminal justice. thank you, bo, for your work. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you to both of our witnesses for your testimony. director peters, you have leadership of a deeply troubled institution. i suspect that you feel like your job is more akin to trying to change the direction of an aircraft carrier then leave and agile and well resourced organization because the op is neither. i appreciate the determination, openness and vigor which which you have approached this task and to inspector general

horowitz it was encouraging to hear about the two of you are working together responsibly and instead of viewing the ig as a hostile party, you as a b.o.p. director are engaging around these issues. as the chairman pointed out, and i want to thank you, chairman, for your engagement and determination on this issue over many years. there are lots of recommendations that have not been fully and minted there is an important policy work to do here as senator blumenthal just said, federal collections -- corrections is an important part of our criminal justice system. it does not get the attention that it needs and deserves i have been concerned with the overuse of solitary confinement and i have appreciated the chance to work with chairman durbin in support of the reform act. director peters, i wanted to say i appreciate your leadership in establishing an

internal task force and parting with the national institute of justice to develop recommendations on this issue. we have got lots of recommendations over many years of work. inspector general, let us put it aside for the moment the issue of policy implementation and focus on the need to have policies to implement. can you briefly elaborate on what is lacking in an overall policy level in terms of addressing restrictive housing and single celling ? >> that is one of the civilian recommendations we have made in the past. many years ago, 2017 report, about the lack of an overall policy guidance for when people should be put into restrictive housing and when they should be single cell. we were not alone in that. the b.o.p. put together a 2021 task force and ask what they should do. they had 11 recommendations, i believe it was. one of them was implement the oig's earlier recommendation

and put in place this policy. that is still an open recommendation. there needs to be an understanding among all the wardens and all 121 institutions that when and how should single celling be used . if i could give you a censoring covid. a director went out from b.o.p. leadership to not use single celling as a quarantine method. unless there was an extraordinary reason to do so. seven of the suicides were quarantined individuals during covid. not because they were acting up because covid quarantine. five of the seven had not had the review done before they were single cell to see if they had indicia of mental health illness potential. after action reviews indicated that all seven

dead. >> striking. director peters, can you respond to that question about having a policy in order to implement? >> absolutely. first i want to say thank you for your comments about the partnership with the inspector general. i would love to say the partnership has been exceptional. i am the former inspector general of the state of oregon i know very much to respect his hard job. we are working on implementing all of the recommendations. here is what we have done as relates to the fine point of the question. we have a policy, a restricted housing policy, that has been under review and negotiation with the national union for a very long time. we are so close to finalizing that policy, which will animate a lot of the inspector general ngos recommendations. furthermore, we have an exceptional relationship with the national union and the incoming president and we are going to come up with a plan to streamline policy adoption so

we do not have significant delays and have this be a barrier to implementation of the inspector general ngos recommendation. we have a future state and plan on how these policies negotiations will happen going forward. >> that is encouraging i would hate to see the clock run out on your opportunity to resolve these long-standing issues and to have the union at the table and b.o.p. leadership at the table and be implementing some of the ig's recommendations on this critical area is encouraging. i will be following best. i know the chairman will be legislating can i ask one more question with the forbearance of my colleague. when a federal defendant is found mentally incompetent to stand trial. if they release on bail, they are required to be returned to custody to see if their competency can be restored in a b.o.p. facility. there is few facilities with

this capacity. they have very long wait times. that means that mentally ill but presumed innocent people can end up in terminal incarceration before they get the help they need and the criminal justice process can proceed. this has led to charges being dropped due to speedy trial issues. director peters, can you speak about what b.o.p. has been doing about this and will you work with me on helping identify ways congress can help pacifically on this issue? >> yes, thank you, senator. this is long-standing issue that has been had a round like of resources that have resulted in the backlog of these reviews. here's what we have done in the last year. we have added additional beds at our facility in chicago to help us peel back this backlog. we are looking at adding additional beds this year at another facility that we have yet to determine but working on a plan. we have also worked to create a

psychology review team, that is a traveling team that will travel across the country to help work on this backlog. and then we are working on a program where we can hire individuals who have their phd but have not completed their dissertation that would be able to come and help with the reviews as well. this is a long-standing issue that we are trying to fix. it is a conversation i've had with the u.s. attorneys on many occasions. it is certainly in our sites. >> thank you, both. thank you, mr. chairman. >> as we mentioned earlier, the subcommittee is having a hearing this afternoon on staffing in the federal prisons. it has come up in this morning's meeting many times. we want to reckon i senator booker. >> thank you very much for this hearing but i am grateful for the two witnesses being here. before i get to this question

on staffing in general, i want to talk about mental health and the well-being of both people that are incarcerated as well as the mental health of a lot of our incredible correctional officers suicide rates for both groups are alarming to me. nationally, according to this, 14 about -- never alone should cots concern for all americans that it is high. people in custody die in rates that are much higher. according to the bureau of justice and statistics in 2019, up to 20 out of 100,000 persons. first, director, for the people that are incarcerated, what steps is the b.o.p. taking to curb this extraordinary rate of individuals committing suicide in custody?

>> thank you, center. we have done a variety of things. while one-sided on our watches one too many, i think what we have a limit are represented in the data and that our suicide rate is less than the general population and less than state corrections. it has to do a lot with the psychology resources that we do have while i am going to argue for more and better paper those doctoral level psychologist, they do do incredible work in terms of finding those individuals that need resources and rewrap those resources around them. and we have more work to do. we are looking at our after action reports and looking to see if those need to be more substantive. are we showing the data across the country when we find issues that need to be solved? i personally read every reconstruction report. and then meet with my multi disciplinary team to talk about what we have learned and how to

lament changes going forward. >> sticking with inmate. and an old ig report there was a discussion of the inmate companion program in which institutions may utilize individuals who are in b.o.p. custody and a b.o.p. staff. it seemed to have some really promising success. the report indicates that both detain individuals and staff found several benefits from the program. staff explained the program participants were more effective than b.o.p. staff at suicide watch is because they took better notes and interacted more frequently than staff. i am just wondering, can you provide the committee with additional information on this program and this is something you may want to expand? >> as i have traveled to more than 40 institutions in the last year, i have had the privilege of meeting some companions. not only does the data bear that it is productive programs,

but just hearing the anecdotal stories about their ability to connect better with a peer, if you will, then maybe a correction professional would be able to do. it has been quite profound. they take their job so seriously. we trained them and we do not select random adults in custody. we have a clear selection process. and then we train them, like we train our staff are looking for the predictive characteristics that we are looking for. >> just to jump in. i want to try to get two more questions and. law enforcement in general has real challenges with mental health and the suicide rates of law enforcement are difficult. can you talk about the b.o.p. personnel real quick and i'll get another question on the staffing issues for correctional officers. can you provide the committee with an update on some of the

financial incentives that you've talked about. i find that correctional offers are the bottom of all federal law enforcement. the amount of money they make why would it be a tsa agent or jobs like that that it is in terms of the compensation. can you address the mental health and wellness steps you are taking for officers and the financial incentives which seem to be urgently needed and i think these hard workers need to be paid more. >> thank you, center. i appreciate your passion around the mental health of our professionals who are unsung heroes in the toughest law enforcement and the data is startling. one and three have symptoms of ptsd. that means more anxiety and depression. that means reliance on substance abuse and higher levels of divorce. over 90% are obese. or in the overweight category.

over 90% have hypertension or pre-hypertension. which means there on the track for cardiac disease. the data is staggering. what we are finding across the country that in some places, they can leave the federal bureau of prisons and work for state corrections and make 2 to 3 times more. let alone the bonuses that we are battling against with fast food organizations. we have thrown every incentive that we can at this problem, every recruitment incentive and retirement -- retention incentive. we reviewed the thousand by $2000 for correctional officers. the bottom line, as i said in my opening comment is you are referring, we need to increase the base salary we need to pay more. when we compared to other law enforcement i also want to remind the committee that the average on boarding for law enforcement is 21 weeks and our officers received about six.

>> it is truly unfortunate. i am hoping you can answer for recognizing a part of the question about more detail into the financial incentives but i appreciate the indulgence, mr. chairman. >> senator cotton, you would be next. if you like a minute, senator ossoff. >> thank you for being here. director peters, following up on senator booker's question about incentives, at usp atlanta, as at many facilities, there are severe staffing issues and difficulty returning and retaining staff. i had sent a letter asking that b.o.p. undertake what efforts it could to add retention incentives and take steps to ensure that the correctional officers are well- paid and can be retained. you have replied, which i appreciate just like your

commitment to 10 you working at my office to treat the correctional officers well and paying them properly and retaining their services. >> thank you, senator. i am committed to that we have thrown every incentive we camp that is in our authority with recruitment incentives, retention incentives. at the core of many of the issues that the inspector general revealed is a lack of staffing. this is important to us. as i said in my opening comments, while the incentives have proven a band-aid affect, we need to increase the base salary for these correctional officers so we can have the best and the brightest and keep them. >> i'm hoping we can work to other to identify additional tools to identify s remain on the subject of staffing. in 2021, b.o.p. hired a contractor develop a tool that was intended to help the bureau determine necessary staffing levels for safety at b.o.p. facilities, correct? >> that is correct. >> in march 2023, a year ago

approximate, b.o.p. reported the tool is still being tested in three of the six regions and said it would be rolled out to all six regions by june of 2023. did that happen? >> i am not sure exactly when it was rolled out but we have completed the initial data analysis as it relates to those employees who are in the correctional services program division. they are recommending an additional 3500 positions in that category going forward. >> how many regions is that tool currently being used and is it being used for usp atlanta , for example? >> it is important to understand that tool is to help us plan for future budging planet and request that will not help me for crisis today because i cannot feel the positions that you have paid for today. >> and how many regions? >> all six but that 3500 is all six. senator, the next category they

are working on right now is help the services. which we have difficulty maintaining and recruiting staff in that category as well. >> my office and several offices have asked for a demonstration of this tool and been told that b.o.p. will not provide it because the tool is still being refined. can you make sure that we are able to view, observe emperor to spit in a menstruation about tool in the next several weeks? >> i will work with my team and see the availability and where we are at with the tool and are about to share with you. >> we cannot understand why we cannot see it. it does not make any sense. we should be able to come and see the tool. >> i will work with my team and see what we can do. >> i hope that we can come and see it in short order. i understand b.o.p. conducted an expection early this year but my team has requested a copy. is unlike b.o.p. is working on that bridge or have your commitment to get that to us properly? >> you have my commitment to get to you as quickly as we can

. >> thank you very much. inspector general, your report has detailed how b.o.p. staff or in some cases not caring out key duties including required inmate mental health assessments counts and rounds and trainings among others that found that these failures contribute to deaths in custody. hallux evident a role in understanding plan those failures? >> i think it is a very sad immigrant problem it has been a challenge. as we have gone in prisons to inspect them, and the problems that go both for correctional officers who are substantially understaffed, ultimately being asked to work sometimes voluntary and sometimes mandatory overtime. then we have augmentation which is healthcare, potentially, educational staff, facility staff to cover the duties of the correctional officers,

which has a cascading effect. there long wait for step back training. healthcare staffing can be shortages exacerbated with things like that. it is a big challenge. >> with my remaining time, i want to follow-up on initial usp atlanta. a psi investigation that i led several years ago found very substantial flow of contraband into the facility, including weapons and narcotics. ig's recent report that drugs contribute to one third of deaths in custody at b.o.p. what steps are taken to address the flow of contraband and the threat that poses public safety apis ladies and particular usp atlanta? >> the issues that were uncovered still fall into these two categories, lack of staffing and our maintenance and repair backlog. as we were able to show you during your visit at usp atlanta

, the facility structure was currently but it allowed for hiding contraband inside our institution. we are working to maintain our facilities in a way where they are safe and secure. we are also working every day to interdict contraband in our institutions through the use of detecting and stopping drone activities. looking at the mail and looking at ways to stop drugs from coming in via the mail. we work diligently to ensure that anyone entering our institution has a background check and is physically screened before they come inside. this is something that is top of mind as you know and pointed out. contraband is a significant issue and can lead to lost lives or even impact the safety and security of our employees. >> can i speak to the contraband issue. it is such a significant issue. it is connected that we found one third of the deaths in our review and the report, we have been on inspections. we were

fci tallahassee, for example. what you saw there in terms of challenges on contraband with inmate potentially smuggling contraband, inmates who were working there the fence line could easily have something thrown over a fence to them. it made with collecting garbage that were not being checked as they brought back into the facility. some basic staff that you would think -- it is not sophisticated to figure out how to try and interdict that kind of contraband ran not surprisingly, by the way, the prism of the highest number of deaths in our report was usp atlanta, which had been closed in 2021 precisely because of the hundreds -- but dozens of cell phones and drugs in the prison. this is a major problem. we have had a staff search policy recommendation open for years that has not been

implemented. a basic search policy for staff coming in to the facility that has not happened either. there are a lot of challenge on the contraband issue that are significant. we are concerned is contributing to inmate deaths both from homemade weapons and from drugs being brought into the facility. >>,, both. >> senator cotton. >> director pierce that peters. the inspector general noted that solving the bureau staffing shortages, quote, one of the building blocks to address the chronic challenges facing the b.o.p.. he also said that significant staffing shortages have had a, quote, cascading effect on your bureaus facilities. when you

testified six months ago, i asked you how many correctional officer positions were filled. you do not have an answer at the time. last month you did an interview with 60 minutes and do not have an answer. do you have an answer today for having correctional officers you have on the payroll? >> yes. we have almost 40,000 authorized positions across the organization. and 14,899 of those are correctional officers. we are going to 100% fund those positions. there only 82% felt at this time. >> 14,899 are correctional officers? >> yes. the individuals that you would think in your mind on that unit safeguarding. >> you said 40,000 that is your total personnel? what are you authorized and fun of her by congress for correctional officers? >> we are authorized at the 14,899 number. it is 100% funded. >> are you sure you're not authorize around 20,000? >> 20,000 is the correctional

offer series position. that includes correctional officers, lieutenant, rachel services officers, which are receiving and discharging and also the number includes correctional counselors. >> okay. 14,899 is what you have today. do you know you had six months ago? >> no, senator. >> do you know how many new officers have been hired over the last six months? >> i know we have made progress in the last year. we have moved our over all recruitment and retention from 87% last year to 90%. we moved are correctional officer fell from the 70s into 82 -- about 82% now. in 2022, congress passed a law requiring that your employees spend 90% of their time on their primary responsibility. if a correctional office spends i percent of his time being a

correctional officer and an hvac technician spends i percent of his time doing hvac work. the bureau has not complied with that law to my knowledge. six months ago, i asked how much time your employees are spending on average on their primary responsibility. you have an answer for that today? >> i do. it is different in every institution. in some, we will take usp thompson -- because we have been able to lower the number -- lower the mission, we need if you are employees but are not relying on augmentation advertisement brooklyn, we are relying on it substantially because of lack of staffing for many officers are working 16 hours regularly and we are having to engage in augmentation on a daily basis at that institution. as you know, while those psychologists are teachers and who ever is being augmented is fully trained and prepared to do that work, it also means that they are not able to do

their current job as you are alluding to. >> i take your point that you could average across all facilities but that average is not particularly meaningful. these facilities in the old world. and a facility that is well bounce will have everyone doing 90% of their job. another facility might be unbalanced and rely heavily on augmentation and overtime. >> that is correct. in the facilities where we are fully staffed or more full staff, we have just been clear direction to those wardens to begin over hiring so that if they are in an economy where we are able to bring in correctional officers, we will hire them and td why them to some other institutions that are in more dire straits. it is . we'll work with your staff to see what we can share,

senator. >> gsf making $48,000 a year. my understanding is that they can top out at $74,000 a year. by border patrol, they can top out at $113,000. does the bureau have trouble competing with the pay of other federal enforce agencies? >> it is great trouble. we look at state corrections in new york. individuals can make 2 or 3 times more working for the income city's corrections department than the federal bureau of prisons. if we issued a 35% retention bonus at brooklyn that allows someone after a few years to make $90,000 a year. for state corrections in the same time period, you make $130,000 a year. >> if the last appropriations bill that congress passed, they

asked the bureau to consider increasing pay to match the other agencies and asked for a review to be submitted no latter than last june. has that been submitted yet? >> i don't know. i will check. i was able to increase the base salary of base correctional officers by $2,000. i did not have the authority to go beyond that. >> please do and get back to us. and we have raised contrabands in prison. the most dangerous are cell phones. they are not going to kill anyone themselves, but they enable other crimes outside of prison. this will make it clear to state prisons that they can use targeted jamming and block cell phone signals in prison housing units. we have had some resistance from the telecome industry.

i wish they would come to their senses on this issue. can you manage access systems? >> we have, both in in terms of detection and jamming. both proved very successful. what my employees are telling me is that the detection versus the jamming is the most helpful we can investigate and figure out who has it and who brought in and solve the greater flow of the contraband problem. >> mr. horowitz, since you addressed issue, would you like to a statement. >> a cell phone in a prison is a deadly weapon. we investigated a murder-for- hire on a corrections officer. the hit was put on by someone in the prison. one of the things i've asked for smuggling a cell phone into a prison is a federal

misdemeanor. is not a felony. i was surprised by that. i assume it had to be a felony. it isn't. what we found, by the way, i'll tie contra band to sexual assault. we have a major problem with sexual assault in prisons on women and male inmates. and the contraband is to groom inmates and it is way to gain favors. we prosecuted a chaplain in federal facility in new hampshire for bringing contraband cell phones and other items. that is something -- we should not have to make a bribery case, which we have to do to bring the felony charge. that is what we drive to do.

but finding the person with -- contraband, it is a lot easier to make those cases. a small fraction of the staff are involved in the b.o.p. conduct and get them out. i know this from my time as a prosecute in new york where a prosecuted some corrupt police officers, there is not a single b.o.p. employee that wants to work next to a corrupt employee or a dangerous inmate who is engaging in crimes. so we we all have to focus on that. >> i think there is some valuable suggestions and i'm happy to work to move some of them forward. i would like to be more specific. we talked about staffing and many different respects and i'm senator booker will address some of them this afternoon. i would like to zero in on the

health staff. but it appears this is one of the real deficiencies in what we've identifies as we go forward through the the file. >> this has been a challenge. we have to consider ourselves a health care organization. so many people come to our facility with mental issues. so we have a sick population. recruiting and retaining medical professionals is very difficult. i visited some of our institutions where health

services was half filled. we're having to it dy people across the country. leaning into the telehealth to ensure more care. we just approved a 25% recruitment incentives. we have individual insensitive across the country for doctors that said they were going to leave, psychologists that she had they were going to leave. so we're doing everything in our authority. but i will tell you that doctors in our care can leave and make almost double what they're making for us in the community. this is something that we're working on. is this something that is very troubling. but we have to figure it out, like i said with the correctional officers how to increase the base pay for our medical professionals that we can provide the quality care that we need to provide. >> are you familiar with the national health service core? >> yes.

>> are there applicants for jobs in the bureau of prisons that are going to have a opportunity for loan forgiveness to take the jobs? >> i don't know the answer to that. but i'll look into that. >> i think we'll look into that as well. general hurwitz, do you have any thoughts? >> i think that is something to look into. >> i think if we're looking for incentives and health care professionals, and they're certainly needed, the insensitive of incentive of loan forgiveness. i think we should try it i believe at the federal level, we have so many areas where we need health care professionals that we need to think more seriously about a program that is federally inspired that results in a work force that is

needed at this point. do you need a minute more to adjust to the circumstances? are you ready? >> i'm recognizing you. >> i appreciate that. thank you very much. director, we talked about the situation where would he don't have a residential reentry facility, it is a serious issue. is there a difference that they can receive assistance with the housing, treatments, unemployment, it has been proven to reduce recidivism. vermont, this is shocking to me and senator sanders, vermont is one of only two states that does not have the benefit of

that facility. >> i know when we spoke about this, you indicated that we were going to get one. but you classified that you misspoke and it was going to be a reporting facility instead. reporting facility is not worth it. reporting would mean that people have to go to providence, rhode island. that is a long away from burlington. or they would have to go to new hampshire or boston. so it just doesn't do the job. after you classified that, you indicated that the vermont delegation researched the matter and that the residential facility was necessary, you may change course. we did our research. most promptly, we checked with the attorneys and most importantly with our federal judges.

and i would ask for unanimous consent to enter senator peters into the record. >> so noted. >> the borough of prisons on friday that you planned to proceed against our consensus and not provide the residential treatment facility. our office did speak to the stakeholders, including the chief judge crawford and he wrote to you in december expressing that vermont absolutely needs a reentry center. i request permission to submit his letter into record? >> without objection. >> in his letter he wrote, the chief judge, the lack of facility in vermont interferes with every pro social activity

to return to normal life, including the long-term employment, connecting with family and locating housing. the chief justice added, our judges all believe -- our judges all believe that opening a residential reentry center in vermont is for the improvement of public safety and rehabilitation. and there was a report from the chief probation officer outlining the need for a center. we presented this from the defense and the prosecution side. i understand that you received the letter. so what is the deal? how do we get our re-entry program in vermont so we're not the only state that don't have the services for the people

that need them. >> thank you, senator for this conversation. i'm all happy to take in new information. >> let's get to the point. >> i will get to the point, senator. our market analysis determined that since there are so few individuals releasing back to vermont, it is not financially feasible reentry center. the daily reporting center will provide all the wrap around services to the residential -- >> i don't think you provided the market study to us to take a look at. >> i can work with your team and mine to share with you about that study. >> i don't understand the market study. we have the probation officers and we have the judges and the district saying that we need this. why is it that vermont would be the only one state in the entire nation, along with hawaii, temporarily, is that doesn't have it? why do we need a market study?

we have defendants, judges, we got the need. >> senator, again, it is all around resources and trying to balance. >> that is a different question. that is a different question. if your saying that the market study doesn't need as much as new york city, that is right. but we need in vermont. >> i'm happy to any new information and look at it. put we feel confident in our decision around the daily reporting center it will hold more people -- >> we need to work on this more. they're two totally different things. the reentry center provides resources to people when they are coming back into society. the reporting center, it is a long way. there is no follow through, you don't get the resources. it is astonishing that the market study said that vermont is unique that we don't need or deserve or should have the

benefit of the same services that are provided in every other state in this great country of ours. >> we can have further conversation. >> we want a reentry center that is what our chief judge is saying that we need. thank you. >> thank you. >> senator grassily. >> when the bureau of prisons let correctional officers supervise adult inmates if the officer did not clear an fbi national crime center background and fingerprint check? >> they require that background check prior to employment. >> if that is the case, i would like to say, not just for you, but my colleagues, if folks that have not passed an fbi background check are not allowed to supervise adults, we

should not give them custody of uncompanied alien children. but the offices of refugee with children does not included even if the child's well is in question. this needs to stop. and i hope the committee brings in more witnesses on this subject and takes up more legislation to protect our kids. i'll take advantage of you being here to ask a follow-up question. i wrote you on november 2nd last year about your review of the justice department obtaining phone records of members of congress and staff. in response, you said that your report will likely cover most, if not all of the 8 category categories of information that i asked for. it is has said that the justice

department received these to the discredited investigation. but i'm concerns that the justice department used this as an excuse to keep tabs on congress as we conducted oversight of the department relating to the crossfire hurricane. can you provide an update on the scope of your review and when you expected that. did the justice department apply the same investigative standards so its agents and staff are other officials in the branch that may have leaked information as did members of congress and our staff? >> thank you, senator. i'll give you an update on timing and where we are. we're planning to cover, as i said in my letter to you, the issues that you reference and the categories that we spoke about. we're in the process of

drafting the report. so we will hopefully be able to get out in a reasonable amount of time. i will add because so much of these issues to cover highly classified information, as you know from our prior reviews, we have to go through the department and the various intelligence committees to get to the point where we can issue it. so i always put that caveat in any reports that we have involving classified information. but we're working to get it done. we made good progress. and the second question that you raised the issue is one that we're also assessing. >> they do exactly the same thing for their own staff. >> that is one of the issues that we're assessing and we'll report on that, senator. >> director peters, in february, 2024, the justice department inspector general

report in the facilities found the fcc hazel ton had 14 deaths from 2014 to 2021. last year, september 12th, 2023, i wrote to you about additional allegations of serious misconduct occurring at fcc hazel ton. ton. some are officers assessment and time attending sheets and assaulting of inmates. you have not yet to respond to our letter. why not? and what are you doing to straighten out the significant problems as hazelton that we

identified in the letter. >> we take those seriously. and it is suffering from a lack of staffing. we're having difficulty recruiting and retaining there. one of the things that we have done recently is we actually closed down a unit in order to deploy staff to the rest of the institution. like i said earlier, recruitment and retention is crisis at the federal bureau of prisons. and hazelton is not alone in that problem. >> is the problem that i brought to your attention entirely related to the number of people that you have on staff and nothing else? >> senator, i think it is a variety of things. we talked about contraband and interesting to tackle the serious issue of contraband in our institutions. if you look at the maintenance repair backlog, i think that can add to it and we have to talk a lot about the work that the inspector general and i

have been working on to clear up the backlogged investigations, the number of staff that we've added to the office of internal affairs. when i started, there were less than 30 employees in the office and now we're looking at almost 150 with direct oversight direct through the central office in order to not only sure up the backlog but to hold people accountable in a swift and sure fashion. >> thank you to answering my questions. >> i believe that senator kennedy will have a first round to asking questions. >> thank you mr. inspector general, how are you? >> fine, sir. >> directer peters, you're the director of the bureau of

prisons? right. >> oregon is about to reverse that right, is that correct? >> senator, i'm not familiar with policy proposed in that. >> you just ignored the orders. >> oregon still have a special place in my heart, sir. >> you have not red anything about the reversal? no, sir. >> you have not read anything about it? >> correct, sir. >> you're in charge of implementing the first step act? >> that's correct. >> how many criminals have you released in the first step act? >> for the overall release since the since the start of that, 30,000 individuals. >> so you released 30,000

criminals under the first step act. okay. before you released them, did you contact any of the victims to say that we're about to let this guy out? >> senator, it is my understanding that that notification happens through the u.s. attorney's office. but i will check to that and get back to you. >> you don't know? >> senator, i don't. >> have you followed up with the u.s. attorneys to say, we're about to let this guy out, we want to make sure that the victim is contacted? >> as a former victims' advocate, i share that value. i'll check on the process. >> but you don't know if that is happen something. >> that's correct. >> wow! of the 30,000 criminals that you let free, how many of them have come back, committed a crime again, hurt somebody else? >> that number is one that we're still looking at it as it relates to at the time recidivism act. >> you don't have any idea?

>> no, senator. >> you don't have anything at the bureau that can count? >> i do not have that number in front of me. >> so let me get this straight. the first step act was passed in 2018. and this is 2024. that is six years. >> that's correct. >> and in six years you let 30,000 criminals go, correct? >> that's correct. >> and you don't have any number how many committed another crime and came back? >> yes. >> and you don't mean how many employees do you have? >> about 40,000. >> general, you got a lot to do. could you give us a hand here and let's find out if the first step act worked and how many -- if we released 30,000 criminals after six years our director here doesn't know how

many have committed another crime and come back? can you help us? >> senator, i can follow-up on that issue. i will say in in terms of work that we have done in the past, for example, on compassionate release. and going to the bureau of prisons, this is before director peters with a there and asking them for data and come an compassionate release. >> we were told it would save money and it would be in the interest of public safety to release criminals from prison. i didn't vote for it. build the majority rules. and director peters at the bureau of prisons and her colleagues have released 30,000 criminals, all of whom were

there for a reason. they didn't go to prison for a free toaster. they were there for a reason. her department let them go and after six years, we don't have the slightest idea, not a single one of the 40,000 of her employees know how many have committed a second crime and come back. how the hell are we supposed to figure out if it worked? people should hide their head in a bag, director, that you cannot come in front of congress and answer that question. i'm sorry. i interrupted you with my speech. >> that is okay. >> my bottom line point on it was i often looked to the questions on things like compassionate release in other programs and one of the other challenges that we found is that the department just doesn't have good data on that. halfway houses. congress is spending about a

half billion dollars in halfway houses. >> we need to find out. i believe in justice. you believe in treating everybody fairly. but there are people out there -- i don't know why, if i make to heaven, i'm going to asked. they're not mixed up or confused or sick, it is not that their mom or daddy did not love them enough. they just hurt other people and they take other people's stuff. and we have to separate them from society. the director let 30,000 of the folks go and can to the tell me how many have come back. it takes my breath away, with 40,000 people. how many of your 40,000 people actually come to work or still working from home, director? >> the super majority come to work every day because we work

24/7. >> what percentage? >> the percentage high. >> if they cannot come to work, they cannot give us the answer. this is why people hate government and don't trust government. >> i would like to respond concerning the grassily durbin first step act signed into lou. >> i thought you might have a response. >> by president donald trump. i want to repeat. i don't consider donald trump soft and crime. let me you the numbers that we have. 30,000 released. the number of people with

recidivism 12.8%. by comparison, the doj estimate the decade before the first step act was passed, 43% of the people formally incarcerated were rearrested within the first year of their release. the point is we decided with the trump add trump and senator grassily they will be for prepared for release. 80% in the system are going to be released some day. we don't want another crime or have another victim. i would submit this as a success. don't put your hit in the bag

or whatever the senator suggested. stand up tall and make it better. i'm ready to do that. but the first step act was a constructive reform of the penal system and i think it was a good idea and i'll stand by it. i'll submit to your question. >> i didn't vote for the first step act. i was afraid this was going to happen. what i hear you saying is that of the 30,000 that the director released over 30,000 committed $3,000. why do you know that and she doesn't and 40,000 employees? >> i would like to say in all fairness. in oath, when you ask for numbers, she wants to tell you a number that she can live with. i have the information that i think is close to a hundred percent accurate. but i would not say under oath

it is. give her the fair opportunity to respond. >> but it is not your job. i appreciate the information. i would like to see the study that shows that. i just don't understand why she doesn't know that. >> i assuming under oath it is an honest answer. we have two other individuals that are seeking a second round. >> i hate to distract from my questions. i want to defend the work that we do it. the dramatic drop in recidivism rates, what it is not the bureau of prison's job to do that. it saved america hundreds of millions of dollars and it has lowered crime.

we max people out in prison and don't prepare them. you cannot keep them by law. so when people max out and don't have halfway houses and don't have the kind of resources that people were released during this have, the recidivism is through the charts. so we have to be smart on crime. one of the biggest growths of bureaucracy is the prison is in united states of america and it is not make is us safer. the mission of the b.o.p. is not to track folks after they're gone. what i understand, that is not your mission. your mission is to hold them securely and put them in programs and so forth. if we want to get the head of the justice department, i'm for grilling them. but you're one of the folks that we're giving you too little resources to do and too much work. and that is what i would like

to jump into. i have a lot of frustrations going on. i watched you as a professional struggle to meet the demands put on you in a moment where congress is not giving you the resources necessary to do your job even in facilities that are outrageously -- you said that you need $2.5 million for repairs. congress allocated $59 million. but is it true that people are dieing in your facilities because there is no air- conditioning. >> you're spot on. and the number has grown. it is closer to $3 billion. we continue to have roofs that are crumbling. we continue to have hvacs that

stopped working. and if you look at the money that we get from congress, it is about a hundred thousand dollars a year to solve that $3 billion problem. and the cost of one roof replacement is a million dollars. >> this say pattern here. you're employees could leave your job and not make 10 or 20% more but a hundred percent more. you know this. when you have to hold somebody on a shift what does that do to a family suddenly when they can in the pick up their kids from school. >> i hear it all the time is not just the physical wear and tare and mental ware and tear, it is an impact on the family. >> i talked to them that are not allowed to leave and the family is in crisis. >> they have people who is picking up the kids from

daycare and who is cooking. that is day in and day out for our families. >> we preach how much we support law enforcement and this is utterly shameful. by october 2023, the b.o.p. housed about 8% to the solitary confinement. the report noted significant racial disparities with black individuals comprising half of the population and 59% in solitary. can you address that for me? >> that is in federal corrections and state corrections. often what we find is the level of gang activity in our institutions is what drives that number. that is unacceptable to me. we have to ask the hard

questions about the disproportionate number of individuals of minority status that are in restrictive housing. >> i hope that is something that my staff can work with you on as well. the final thing i want to say is the chairman said it. i think there is room for a lot of bipartisan work here to try to address the issues. the shamefulness of what is happening with the lack of the facility and personnel and certain line items is outrageous implications of the united states of america and the supportment of law enforcement officers and creating any humane conditions in prisons.

i want to talk about the ability to jam cell phone signals. i'm wondering it on the jamming issue, the only push back they get is the need for federal public offenders when meeting with their clients to access to work the internet. is there a work-around for that concern? do you think it will be a deterrent if it was not a misdemeanor but a felony? >> yes, for. i think there is a work-around. i think one of the issues that senator cotton had it, the fcc and the technology companies have opposed it or raised it because of the inability, i think, to limit the jamming or limit the interference to the grounds itself of the facility

as opposed to some of the parameter areas, particularly where there are homes nearby. so i think those are some of the issues that have been at issue here. but many state prison have been doing this for years. california has been involved in jamming technology. we have done work in our office and we have seen other states successfully do it. it is clearly doable. we're glad to see them moving forward. >> but the misdemeanor to the felony, if somebody is caught sneaking if a cell phone in, they're fired? they lose their job, right? >> here is the issue. from a union standpoint, if they are a union member there, is an ability to litigate that question on a misdemeanor. a felony charge, if someone is convicted of a felony charge,

they're out. my understanding is if it is a misdemeanor, the federal prosecutors are not taking the cases. so no one is getting prosecuted for a misdemeanor. so they're not being prosecuted. and that leaves it up to the b.o.p.'s administrative process only to deal with the problem. and that sometimes does not, as i understand it, does not result in the removal of individuals. i'm happy to speak to your staff about this, where we have had cases involving sexual assaults that were the result of some grooming in foods. bringing in food is a misdemeanor. think about how that is an enticement to female inmates potentially. that should not happen. >> i agree with you. not to be light hearted on

this. when you say that nobody is prosecuted for federal misdemeanors. that is not an invitation to commit the misdemeanors. >> you are correct. there are rare occasions where there are misdemeanor charges brought. but almost every u.s. attorney's office in the country has lots of felony cases. >> i want to make sure they heard that. >> thank you for the help, senator. thank you for the second opportunity. on this point about the disciplinary procedures it it is the office of internal affairs at b.o.p. handles the this, correct? >> that's correct. once they review and determine there is nothing criminal in nation and they kick it back to us and we engage in the

administrative investigation. >> so let's update on the backlogs. psi investigation a couple years ago into the sexual assault of female inmates, there were about 8,000 backlogged cases at oia. and b.o.p. told us it would take about two years to clear the backlog. b.o.p. just provided to my office an update that there are still over 7300 pending cases before oia. so that is about a 7% reduction. you said publicly in a cbs interview last month, it would take about two years to clear the oia backlog. two years ago, b.o.p. said two years, this year, b.o.p. says two years to clear the backlog. why? and when it will be cleared? >> thank you, senator.

i too share your frustration in the time it is taking to clear the backlog, but it is not because of a lack of a plan. we had 30 employees in the office of internal affairs. it took us till last fall to get the positions filled. so now we're at 150 individuals in the office of internal affairs that report directly to headquarters so that there is that centralized oversight that you wanted. we have them fully trained and we're just starting to see a chip down of that backlog. but we're not just looking at the backlog, we're looking at other ways to clear the backlog by looking at, as an example, how many of these investigations could actually be handled at the lower level and the warden level. if you have an employee comes in five minutes late, you are

considered a wool. a wol. >> i'm glad to hear that you've added capacity in personnel. so when will it be cleared? >> i asked for that exact update before this hearing because i knew you would ask and the answer we're hoping to have it cleared in the next two years. >> i hope this is the last time will be again two years. but i do appreciate the effort that you clearly invested into trying to rectify this. getting back to the staffing issue and staffing compensation and we were talking about how b.o.p. personnel are underpaid. how much more do they need to be paid? >> so right now we have about

45% of our employees receiving some form of incentives. in new york, you can get paid two or three times more for working for them. so the answer varies depending on where the facilities or. in rural areas, we're faced with just having saturated the market. and we hired everyone that lives in areas. in the rural area we're competing with the fast food chains and grocery stores. >> how much more in the next fiscal year does b.o.p. need to resolve the fact you cannot currently offer competitive salaries. >> we're looking to propose a new salary rate table. so my hr team is working on

that data right now. so we'll have in the next budget. >> so need to go to doj and they need to go to omb and justify and they'll say why do you need this many more millions or billions of dollars for personnel. if you cannot justify that with some rigorous analysis, your request is going to get denied. for the next presidential budget cycle, are you going to have a specific number or specific appropriation that you need from the congress that is backed up by rigorous analysis in order to resolve this salary issue? >> we hope to have it for this and maintenance and repair backlog. >> i'm just looking at the

staffing tool. the senate judiciary committee accesses a lot of sensitive information. we're asking to come in and review a tool that to use to determine staffing levels. racking my brain here, i cannot think of any reason that your office of legislative affairs would deny my staff and members of this committee the opportunity to view how that tool functions. i cannot think of any reason at all. so we need to get our teams together and get in the room and look at the tool and see how it works. >> thank you, senator. we want to be as transparent as possible. i suspect it is a work in progress. >> we can look at works in progress. >> i'm happy to have this conversation with. we even talked to the executive team to have an outward facing product so the public could even see it. >> let my team have a look. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you.

i want to thank all the members that participated in this hearing today. i made this a special item in if the agenda of the in the to focus on corrections because i felt for a long time that we're fast to sentencing and criminal procedure and alike. and we need to find out what happens next for those that are convicted and incarcerated as a result of it. historically, i know some great people had great things to said about corrections. one was nelson mandela who himself spent 18 years in prison in south africa and went on to be elect the president of his country. but he said no one truly knows a nation till one has been inside its jails. a nation should not be how it treats the highest citizens but the lowest ones. the purpose of this hearing was to make it clear that a federal

prison sentence should never be a death sentence, never. and in too many circumstances it has been. we're lucky to have you, director peters. i'm glad you took the job. it is a tough one. i think you handle it well. we don't agree on anything. but i respect all the work that you're putting into the effort. general hurwitz you're a treasure to this country. we're lucky to have you. to all the workers in the bureau of prisons, especially the ones at risk in the discharge of their duties, thank you. we could not keep this country safe without you and i appreciate all of those at every level in the bureau of prisons that make that possible. there will be some questions for the record. you've seen them before. you better respond to senator grassily, he'll remind you that you didn't. he loves to get his letters

answered. so thanks for being here and this hearing stands adjourned. >> thank you, senator.

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