closed already. michael crick's assessment is, he short his position not. they actually cemented him in and kept him under wraps. >> in the short term, that is true. gordon brown is a big beast in politics, and he is also the prime minister. you would expect him to survive the reshuffle because he is the prime minister. i think it will strengthen his position. in the long run, we will look back as is today being the day that the fatal blow was struck. >> do think that will be what history tells us? >> i am not casting aspersions to those who are taking different views. people are acting honorably. . .

>> mark fisher, will there be a move on monday? you say that this has to be moved on. is there any sign that any major movement will happen. can you affect change in some way? >> if the government is known to continue, it has to make a new start on monday. i think it is very clear what the public has said. they are saying that enough is enough. i think that what we need now is a administrationn that will show us through an early general election.

you cannot have it general if the election now because it will be in a referendum with expenses and allowances. you need a caretaker government that will get some stability into the system with the help of a new speaker and prepare the way for a general election early in the year. >> with all due respect, you cannot have a caretaker government when you're facing the biggest crisis that this country has had economically and that the world has had financially in living memory if ever in modern times. you have to have a strong government that is taking difficult decisions and confronting these decisions on a global level. you cannot have somebody babysitting. they have to be taking the decisions that people want them to take a leading with the dynamism and listening to people in communicating in plain language what we're doing. >> is a problem that the people

are not stupid. they have seen the things that happen in the last few months. labor has been pushed into third position. it does not get much clearer than that. the people of this country want change and are unhappy with the brown government. >> they are unhappy because we are in the middle of a recession. the taxi driver who drop me off tonight that even not -- did not even know who james purnell was. with the british public wants is a prime minister who will lead us through this recession. the media also wants to get rid of gordon brown. >> there is no plot here but there is a set of people making a judgment that, yes, the country needs leadership. it needs economic leadership and political leadership and gordon brown is not the person to deliver that. what we have now is a caretaker government that is not taking very good care of the labor party or the country. the labor party needs to ask

itself what it stands for. that will come about as a new leader of the party. that is a difficult true for any party to face. but now is the time for the labor party to face that truth. >> it is not up to a few individuals or a few ex-cabinet members. it is not just about m p's and ministers. they do not want a change of leader. >> he had an unopposed election. gordon brown is a towering figure. he engineered an unopposed election. there was no general election. >> because no candidate had the guts to stand up against them if they disagreed with him. >> thank you all for now. michael quick is with us. michael, what do you make of

this reshuffling? >> obviously, it is a very limited reshuffle. i think the key thing is that gordon brown survived it. last month, with of the resignation of james purnell, there will not be a single hospital resignation from the cabinet tomorrow. most people would have been surprised. ok, caroline foot, but she was not in the -- carolyn flint, but she was not in the cabinet. >> she says, with her arm on her back. >> yes. what is clear from this is that we are not going to get a coup from within the cabinet. on the other side of the coin, will there be some kind of coup from the back benches of? it seems clearer and clearer

that there is a lack of coordination among the backbench rebels. they are less confident now that aaron johnson is an alternative waiting in the wings now that he has been promoted. if gordon brown goes, that means an earlier election and that will lose their seats. i think that borden is in a stronger position than he was last night. -- i think that gordon brown is in a stronger position now that he was last night. >> there are a few other problems for gordon brown. >> yes, the daily telegraph is back on the expenses trail again. it is said that he claimed expenses on two different properties simultaneously. downing street says that these expenses have gone into and have been cleared by the house of commons and checked by the fis office. for any avoidance of doubt, --

by the fifees office. for and the avoidance of doubt, it is being done. >> there was a record low of 23% bid we will look at -- 23%. let's look at the election result in more detail. . the liberal democrats have 1. three councils have no single party in overall control. the conservatives have gained seven councils. the liberal democrats have lost one. and the labor has lost control of four. other parties also have 159 counselors. the conservatives have downed

two hundred 17 counselors. the liberal democrats have lost eight. the others have lost 250. peter is still with us. eric pickles, you forecast 48%. >> of the number of seats that we have taken above the projected figures, we end of the night somewhere in the region of two hundred 80 against -- of two hundred 80 -- 280 against. >> you must have wished for a much higher percentage. that is what you really needed in. >> we always wish for a higher pretences -- a higher percentage, of course.

but the this was beyond expectation. we have tended to stack of votes in areas where it did not make a difference of changing over political seats. in this particular election, with a targeted campaign and with moneys to an agenda of change, we have taken states and we have knocked over councils. >> of the liberal democrats call this a game changing election. -- >> the liberal democrats call this a game changing election. the arctic counselor short -- they are eight counselors short. >> if you look at those shares of the votes calculated by the bbc, the only main party which is going up, the liberal

democrats, three points, and the conservatives down substantially, and deliver down as well. -- and labor down as well. >> you do not control any single county council in england. >> it was a dire results. that is no question. many good counselors have lost their seats through no fault of their own because of the national situation. we have to rebuild on that. we have to listen to people. we have to govern more effectively. we have to delegate our politics more effectively. the tories have significantly been down by six points. the have done no better than they did in 2004, as you pointed out, when they lost the election the following year. they are not where they should be for this barnstorming victory that in damon kamen has virtually put in his back pockets and -- david cameron has partially put in his back pockets.

>> you have said that there has been a failure to govern by the labor government. that is a pretty severe indictment by your own lips. >> just after the triumph of the g-20, when gordon brown was saluted by the other leaders of the world, as i said, just after that, we were plunged into this whole series of parliamentary issues and expenses situation -- >> but is that not about government? >> [unintelligible] >> it is to simply say, the tories haven't done what they note said. they have lost over 300. he has lost 14 leaders of the group. we need a new parliament. we need a new government.

>> [unintelligible] >> we have taken lancashire, the archer, nottinghamshire -- >> that will put you know where in a general election. >> of course, it will. according to channel 4, it would be over 100. >> it is not a good enough situation for a party that is claiming to sweep into power i. if you look at losing six cabinet members in three days, this is an extraordinary situation where people are worried about their jobs, the state of the economy, about their homes, and are getting no leadership from the government whatsoever >> if, on monday, it looks like -- whatsoever. >> if, on monday, it looks like the labor party [unintelligible]

do you blame the recession for that, too? >> no. this is a crisis for all the major parties. we have to learn from all of this. there will be a renewed government to really tackle the issues that people have been protesting about. there is up -- no labor voters have switched to the tories. many have protested that way. some have voted for smaller parties of up various descriptions. they have had very mixed results. but we have to realize that this is a crisis for the whole of parliamentary democracy. >> we have a roundup of today's headlines. there is a couple accused of starting a 7-year-old girl.

doctors have rarely seen such a rare case of malnutrition. her mother and her partner both denied the charges the scottish government has confirmed another 22 cases of swine flu today. the new infections bring the total confirmed number to 141. the number of cases in scotland has grown. commemorations have begun to mark the 65th anniversary of d- day. prince charles and gordon brown will attend a ceremony tomorrow. the dow jones closed up. >> you have been watching bbc news night here on c-span carry you can see the program again tonight at 9:05 p.m. eastern on our companion network c-span 2.

president obama held a news conference in germany today. later, they visited the buchenwald concentration camp. here is the rest of the trip schedule, france with stops in paris and normandie where he will observe the 65th anniversary of d-day. his speech to the muslim world in cairo--- cairo, egypt will be shown again this sunday. we have more now on the president's speech and a trip from this morning's "washington journal." . i want to begin with this treat that gives us an account. it says "we will never solve their problems. the u.s. should get out of other people's business. there are enough problems at home to worry about." how do you respond to that? guest: at least a philosophy of

the speech yesterday was extraordinary in so many different ways. one of goes -- one of them goes to the heart of the issue you just raised. you have the president of the united states who travels to the muslim world to deliver a speech. almost as if that part of the muslim world was part of the american constituency. this is something that he talked about during his election period. it was almost as if he was trying to live up to a promise that he had given arabs and muslims to address their concerns in the middle east. it is just a measure of how interconnected the world has become. it was obvious that he was talking to three different constituencies. although the speech was primarily for muslims, he was clearly talking to israelis as well. you could also see eyes in the back of his head looking at the home base of the united states. when he was delivering that speech. host: he also addressed the

issue of human rights. let's share part of that. >> i do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for a certain thing. the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed, confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice, a government that is transparent and does not steal from the people, the freedom to live as you choose. these are not just american ideas. they are human rights. that is why we will support them everywhere. [applause] host: his audience? guest: it was obviously destined primarily to the muslim world, but it was also does tend to the american audience. he was clearly thinking that people back in the united

states would be saying -- why is he doing this? why is he doing this on behalf of the united states? he is explaining to people back at home that democracy is in the best interest of the united states. he is also addressing the issue of democracy in that part of the world. obviously, what he said in that particular regard is nothing new. the previous administration, despite all its failings in the region, had talked about democracy a great deal. condoleezza rice said more less the same thing. the thing for the president is that he goes to the region at a time when there is actually -- there is great interest as far as the democratic debate.

there is also a great deal of skepticism about the democracy project in the wake of all the chaos that followed the 2003 invasion of iraq. they want democracy. they are a little bit skeptical about it. the overriding concern was the overriding concern that people had in the arab and muslim world. that is the israel/palestine issue. host: we're getting reaction to the president's speech. the numbers are on the bottom of the screen. you can also send us an e-mail or a tweet. "and the moderate element of the muslims effectively address the extreme element to bring about change on the ground?" guest: the issue of extremism is a real issue. having said that, sitting in the united states or in europe or anywhere else outside of the muslim world, when you hear

about -- what you hear about constantly is extremism. the reality of the situation is that the vast majority of people in the muslim world from morocco to indonesia, where president barack obama spent part of his childhood, their overriding concern is that it just want to lead a decent, normal life, just like people in the united states or europe or anywhere else. there is that fringe that is basically directly tied to these entrenched political problems that we keep talking about, whether they are home grown like the issue of lack of human rights and democratic practice, or they are connected to outside forces. take the invasion of iraq in

2003 as an example or afghanistan, which basically produced 9/11. we know that afghanistan, and during the soviet occupation, the americans played a very important role in working with the afghans to actually defeat the soviet occupation. once the soviet occupation was defeated, the americans cut loose and left. host: good morning. welcome to the program. caller: good morning. i was glad to see president obama speak, but i'm concerned that the message did not heard back here in the united states. one of the earlier caller was saying that she did not like barack obama because she thought he had a muslim part. it seems to me like we still do not get it over here that these are people like our fellow christians that have extremists as well. i got to know a muslim working

for the audit department and he was a wonderful gentleman. he just had a different faith in may. i think we need to bridge the gap between understanding what muslims are about. guest: the caller is absolutely correct. the issue of terrorism exists in every faith. it has existed in every phase, including christianity in various phases of history. in fact, even more recently, if you look at what happened in the issue of northern ireland in recent decades, one thing that always raises my concern -- that is how the issue of israel /palestine has fed into a discourse that basically goes to say that you have jews and you

have christians on the one hand and then you have muslims on the other hand. president obama did talk about this in his speech yesterday. there are a lot of christian minorities. throughout islamic history, the jews played a very important part in muslim culture and civilization that tends to be discarded. especially when we talk about israel and palestine. all we hear within that discourse is that muslims hate jews and judeo-christian heritage forces muslim heritage. the reality of it is much more complex than that. the reality is that is long, at various point in history, was a lot more accommodating to jews than christianity was, certainly in the 19th and the 20th century in europe, given the holocaust

that actually took place there. host: our guest is the washington bureau chief for al jazeera arabic, abderrahim foukara. he also worked for wgbh in boston. thought want to share with you one of the many editorials. this one is from "the wall street journal. a one of the points is that hanging over all of this, the question of iran and how to deal with it. then this point that if mr. obama is serious about stopping to iran, he has to do a couple of steps that i outlined. guest: the issue of iran is interesting. the way that the president handled it in his speech yesterday -- obviously, it caused some waves in the arab

and muslim world. there are basically two trends, if you will, in the middle east about the issue of iran there are people who see iran's attempts to acquire a nuclear capability as potentially leading to iran acquiring a nuclear weapon. they're very nervous about that. a nuclear iran, they feel, will definitely destabilize the middle east. that school of thought exists more in the official circles in the middle east, in egypt and saudi arabia, some of the gulf countries. among the populace, it is different feeling. among the populace, they see is real cause nuclear capability -- israel's nuclear capability as

the real threat. the president alluded to a nuclear-free world. when he talked specifically about the danger that iran poses in this area, without mentioning israel by name, i think he rubbed some people in the muslim world the wrong way. host: good morning. caller: good morning. just commenting on the previous discussion about the iran issue and nuclear arms, i think in a lot of ways, the iranian issue -- while it is a real issue, it is a diversion, the same way that the iraq war was a diversion away from dealing with terrorism. posted -- focusing so much on iran acquiring nuclear weapons has ignored the russian

stockpiles, which are far more of a threat of terrorist getting their hands on a multitude of weapons from the former soviet union. what i call to mention, as a strong obama supporter, my real fear, given his muslim background was that it would create a political environment for any real attempt for addressing the issues. it would be undermined. i was very pleased when obama emphasized the settlement issue. while it may appear to sound just like rhetoric, given the political gymnastics and treacherous waters of american politics involving this issue, given the recent trends in american politics, just merely saying out loud addressing this issue is a major act in itself.

guest: it seems to me that president obama has a cogent system of thought when it comes to dealing with the issues of the middle east. he intrinsically sees a destabilize middle east as undermining the interests of the united states. obviously, navigating some very treacherous waters. as he made very obvious in his speech yesterday, he wants all parties involved to do their part. we heard some very new things in what the president said. the caller mentioned the issue of settlements. obviously, as far as the speech was concerned, there was not a great deal that was new from what the president had already said.

what the administration has been saying is that, the israelis have reacted to the president's demand for settlement activity to be halted by saying that they would not actually halt it in the way that he is calling on them to do. what the administration is saying is that this is just the beginning of the conversation and the beginning of the process. let's give it time and let's give him time. let's see how we actually lives up to what he says in the speech. the second very important thing in my mind that he said yesterday in the speech is when he talked about how moamas. ever since the latest war in gaza, hamas has been a