[indiscernible] >> earlier we spoke with reporter about his legacy and influence on race relations in particular. from washington journal this is 30 minutes. >> with the associated press, and ethnicity reporter and the author of the invisible.

the untold story of african-american slaves in the white house. how would you say that the president, what has been his attitude of processing -- approaching gracious use ? issu he has been cautious. es. >> he has had to walk a fine line where he has to get across the message which he has wanted. a greater and better racial relations. not move so fast that it actually damages the other things he wanted to do as president which was get us out of the great recession. he had to walk an interesting line this entire time between going further and faster and making sure that race relations was not the only thing that his presidency would effect.

he had this really incredible balancing act. a lot people will say he did too much. a lot of people will say he did not do enough. it is one of those things where he was going to be attacked either way. i think he did as much as he thought he could. there a lot of people that think he should have done more. he believes under his tenure race relations have improved. james: he definitely has said that repeatedly. of course, during president obama's time we have seen the shooting,videotaped justified or not, by police. technology we did not even think about eight years ago. we also had ferguson, baltimore. shootings in charleston. while we have seen more televised ration relations

, he will not run into anybody that says that race relations is worse than it was 20 years ago. the thing is that president obama had to deal with is for the first time since the civil rights movement some of these racial relation problems were televised. the nation had to deal with these problems in its face rather than reading about it abstractly. change and was something that president obama had to deal with during his term that makes things look worse than what it was to dexia -- two decades ago. we did not have cell phone cameras a decade ago when these shootings were being televised. we did not have situations like in ferguson. likee surface it may look things were better -- worse

because of all the televised access but you would be a rare person that would say things actually got worse during president obama's term. some of the people said this morning, even the very first dealt with thet skip gate issue. do you think it was a defining moment for the president? it definitely set the tone. when he brought the police officer in for the summit to talk about. that set the tone for what obama was going to be and how he was he did not because actually go to that area. he did not say that this is what should be done. he said these two sides have a legitimate point, let's talk it out.

people even then that wanted him to strongly condemn. there were people that wanted obama to strongly support the police. he tried to walk a fine line. everyone knows when you walk in the middle of the street you get hit by cars on both side. that is the story of this president in terms of race relations. he tried to walk the middle line. each time he would get hit by cars on both side. until 830. callu want to give us a (202) 737-0001 four democrats, (202) 737-0002 four republicans. you talk about the middle line, did he have that in his days as a college professor? do we have that in topics of race?

james: president obama has always been a negotiator. that was his job as a professor as well. someone to talk out problems. once again, there were a lot of people who wanted more strong statements from the president. one of the reasons why i heard one of the callers say that a lot of people were so surprised when he said that his son could have been mike brown. his concreted -- his son could have been trading on margin. martin.on as his presidency went on he became more and more stronger on race relations, in far as statements. at the beginning of his presidency he had to walk away from one of his close friends, his minister, who had made a controversial statement.

that is when he made his first speech on race relations. even from the beginning of his presidency, obama tried to be a negotiator. he tried to make her on race relations. debatep to people to whether he did that or not. we will go to nacogdoches texas. you are on, go ahead. guest: i want to ask you about fox news. ever since he was president, day , negative every day. night and day on everything he said, negative. every eight. when he responded to race they are saying he made things worse. everything he said, they twisted it every day.

good, a lot of people responded on fox news. when you go out and talk to people they are saying the exact same thing fox news is saying. they're all being programs. what do you think about that? james: i know a lot of find reporters at. a lot of what you are talking about is the work of the commentator. a lot of my friends of the reporters there. what i know its most of the reporters snooze do a good job journalism. the commentators, their job is to tell you what they think. they obviously do a really good job as well. that is what they do. never confuse the job of the reporters, whose jobs are to

work in the white house press with and cover congress the job of the commentators which is to tell you what they think. do. is what they guest: good morning. fantastic. predicated on what we can we begin discussions between each other to figure out and resolve these issues when so gonepeople have basically on line with what the color before me had said. we go to our idealistic camps and shelter ourselves around that and pull away from discussions that needs to be had between communities and police officers. what is the first step that he would recommend steering to initiate that process for a

successful outcome? james: that is a great question and i will tell you that i confronted that question when i was teaching at the university of arkansas this past semester. they asked me a similar question and i will give you the same answer i gave them. .onversation the first step is always conversation. the first step is always talking to someone and listening to what they have to say. talking to someone you don't know, someone who has different beliefs from you. to what thepen mind person says. one of the things we probably don't do as well as as a country is to listen to what someone who believes differently from we do, listen to what they have to say. we do a lot of talking at people instead of talking to people. think the first step we need to take as a country especially dealing with race relations is to talk to people. then listen to what that person

has to stay -- say instead of talking at them turning our ears off and going to the next conversation. the kansas city star talked about politics, especially in issues of race. will and impacts measure ton -- expand access to health care and quality schools, none of this can be easily measured at this point. expand on that. one of the things that is difficult, especially at the end of presidencies is to put it in historical context. we are still thinking of it as news and not history. there are going to be a few years before we can actually place in proper context what's the last eight years were like as far as race relations, what they were like as far as a presidency.

president obama overtly made sure that he was the president of all americans and not the presence of black america. trouble within some people in the african-american p.m. et -- community who thought he should have done more for for the black community. hetead he did things that thought would help the entire country at the same time. it is going to be a while until the connection place in proper presidentactly how obama helped the african-american community or how he helped or hurt the entire country. things beyondhose my brother's keeper, one of his signature programs that was specifically meant to help young men and boys of color. cane is a variable you point to that says president obama did this for minority communities. a lot of the programs that he

pushed as president were meant to help all of americans which includes african-americans. it is hard to point to a lot of things that he did that for specifically for the african-american community. a lump the programs he pushed were specifically for the entire country. for those looking for more, what were they looking for? programs that were looking to help inner-city america. specifically african-americans, men and women. programs that were aimed directly. unequivocally at black america. keeper program was specifically aimed toward minority boys and men of color. when you look throughout his entire administration you're not going to find many programs that were aimed specifically at black america. that upset people like cornell west. they were looking for specific

programs and obama did not offer too many of those. host: arlington texas independence line. base --bama's legacy on race relations has been a cautious response. out with the summits where he had to recognize the authority and existence of a white police officer when he arrested a 61-year-old in his own home. towards the narrative he was racially biased toward white people. the situation in ferguson am a the right was obsessed with portraying this false narrative that hands up, don't shoot was untrue. they failed to mention there was a bureaucracy in ferguson that was picketing people and using fines and court fees as a way to get money in revenue. they refused to mention that gets promote the narrative that rep. brown: was a dog, hands up, don't shoot doesn't matter.

there was systemic racism and no one was held accountable. thirdly, if football player from oklahoma who was arrested, , a white of assault woman who attacked him, she hit him twice, the right chose to mention that she did more to him than what eric garner did to the police officer choked to death on the side of the road. any postwe don't live racist society. james: one of the things i will see immediately that the president himself put a fork in the whole post-racial america during his last speech in chicago. expected lot of people america to immediately change because of president obama's election and were sorely disappointed it did not.

one of the things we have to keep in mind that america is the land of incremental change. was aent obama's election change but only a change in one location. it did not change south carolina, utah, california. changed the top but change works at the bottom and works its way up. we havet of the things seen happen in eight years have disappointed a lot of people. once a obama was elected, that the world had changed. we arewe are finding out that oe election does not change the world for you change has to happen from the bottom up. it is one of those things where a lot of people were and are disappointed that the country did not move further as far as race relations because of obama's election. we have something to

work for and should for right now. lucy from auburn, new york. guest: good morning. i think that we would be able to, if we step back and stop putting white against black, i am a biracial. arereat grandchildren biracial. i love them. we should take note from the young people who are intermarrying. in 24 years i think this should be eliminating all these problems. job has beenf my covering demographics and you are right. , one of the stories i wrote last year or the year before was the kindergarten first grade class, this was the

kindergartners, now first-graders, where there are more minority children then there are white children. demographics of the country are definitely changed. this is one of the things we have to keep in mind as we move forward. years, we will be a majority-minority country. racial relations are pretty important because if we can't w, what does that say 20, 30 years from now in that class of kindergartners are now highschooler's, college graduates and they are getting ready to vote? what world are we building for them? what are we showing them? how are we showing them? what exemplary putting up for them right now? this world is changing and one

of the things we have to do is prepare our children for the world that they will eventually be in charge of. that is one of the things that we are really interested in finding out. if i am not mistaken he is going to be one of the few presidents to actually stay in the nation capital after he leaves the presidency. one of the things he has said repeatedly is he is going to put more effort into his my brothers keepers program. to improve the lives of young boys and men of cover -- color. that leaves one area he is going to be working on. what is he going to do after, he has not set yet. everyone is waiting to see what michelle obama does. we are excited to see what issue they will take with these positions. one thing we do know is that he

will continue working on my brother's keeper. host: what do you think the overall issue will be in far as race? she has been an icon for young women and men of color attempts to be the best first lady she can be. you can see the example she has set and the respect that people have for her. she can have any office she can run for even though she has said clearly she doesn't want to. just the example of the columnists and the grace she has shown during her presidency. willingness to go out

there and put yourself out there, hulu -- hula hooping, dancing with children. for example has been a good example as first lady. host: let's hear from kathleen. good morning. >> how do you measure race relations? economics. black americans have been in this country 400 years. 98% of us are direct descendents of slaves. the economic addition of black america, we owe less than one own less than one country.% of this

we will not have good relations until we change our economic position. blackwill be better for americans than obama because he has a specific plan for black america, the direct descendents of slaves. we have been talking about jobs and education for black americans for 100 years. nothing has changed. it is rhetoric. all the phone calls that came in , never mentioned the economic situation. thing i would take issue with is that things have not gotten better for african-americans over the last 100 years. statistically of course, things have gotten better for african-americans. are things where we want them to be? of course not. even dr. martin luther king jr.

at the end of his life had started shifting away from civil rights toward economic rights. rightsler said economic are definitely going to be important. there are going to be in areas -- even president obama even tried to move things forward during the great recession. african-american unemployment got into double digits. even obama said sometimes in the last couple of months he is proud he has gotten the african-american unemployment rate to single digits. it is still higher than the unemployment rate for white americans. there is still so much that needs to be done. economic relations are definitely a part of race that americablems has. if you do not have a job it is going to be hard to do anything else. if your children are hungry it will be hard to do anything else.

if there is a plan to increase the economic security of minorities i cannot the anybody .aying no one of the least talked about eris in the king's career. he had moved into economic rights. that is part of the reason why he was in memphis at that time. to lead a march for economic rights. that is definitely an area we needed to work on. that was an area he was concerned as well. when president-elect trump is inaugurated one of the things america will be looking for is a leader.

a leader not only on economic rights but race relations. that is one thing he will eventually have to talk about. one of the things he talked about during his campaign was the killings in shootings in chicago. that is one of the things we are going to be looking for him, to see what he is going to do. he is a republican. republicans are big on business and economic rights. that is an area african-americans need help as well. everyone will be looking to seeing what the incoming administration has to say and ,ill do for african-americans for asian americans, for hispanic americans when it comes to race relations. whether the economics side, civil rights side, whether the administration will push forward on reauthorizing hearts of the boarding rights act. everyone will be looking at the

administration to see what they are going to do. us wasn't a huge topic for them during the campaign, but now that he is the president of all america, we look forward to seeing what the administration has to say on these issues. >> one more call, independent line. >> good morning. good to see both of you. about this topic because i feel as though your first question wasn't framed correctly, and the idea of legacy, of race relations under obama -- president obama's legacy, i think that we focus also on the issue of race and not prejudice, and i feel as though the last caller who spoke about economics was very much on target.

i attempted to get on the first linent and i called on a that raceot feel relations have improved. but i do know that there has been change, and the change has happened -- as you mentioned -- because people at the bottom did some work and that is where change comes. >> i will have to leave it there because we are short on time. if you want to comment. >> i don't think there is anyone who would say that race relations hasn't changed. the things are not better, as far as race relations go than it was 10-30 years ago. i am originally from mississippi. i can tell you things are better than it what it was 30 years ago. also shouldn't be anyone

who says that things can't get better. it is one of the things we are going to look for in the trump administration. what the new president is going to do as far as race relation. what is his plan to make things better, not just for black america, but all americans as race relations. >> he is the author of the "invisible: the untoward -- untold story of black slaves in the white house" >> it tells the story of where they came from, who they were, and what they did after they left the white house. it is the story of the american people, a forgotten part of our white house history. it is the story where you can find out the inside story of what happened at the white house, and what happened to these people who took care of the president -- unwillingly, they were slaves, but they took care of the president and you can find out how those early presidents related to those

slaves and how they related to him, and what happened after they left the white house. >> jesse holland, thank you for your time today. c-span's washington journal, live every day with policy issues that impact you. up this morning, we will take a look at president obama's legacy on foreign policy. what he achieved and which crises the main as he leaves office on friday. talk with truman national security president michael bring and others. then the political act editor talks about politifacts truthometer. join the discussion.

>> the presidential inauguration of donald trump is friday. c-span will house -- have the day's events and ceremony. watch live on c-span and c-span.org, and also live on the free c-span radio app. with inauguration day later this week, next we will take a look back at past inaugural addresses. george h w bush and bill clinton. after that, the national action martin has its annual luther king jr. breakfast. with reverend al sharpton, senator cory booker and governor terry mcauliffe. then, washington journal is live with your phone calls and a look at today's headlines.