host: good morning it is tuesday, october 17 and a house elects its new speaker today. house judiciary committee chairman jim jordan is pushing for a four vote. meanwhile, president biden has

to israel today to show support for our closest ally. we want to hear from you, for republicans (202) 748-8001, for democrats (202) 748-8001, for independents (202) 748-8002 or you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003 or catch up with us on facebook facebook.com/cspan. a very good tuesday morning, you can start calling in now. first, to the house where we are expecting a vote today. that will be coming two weeks to the day after they ousted kevin mccarthy. here's the headline from the new

york times. jim jordan faces holdouts, he needs 217 votes, he can only lose four house republicans. this was jim jordan yesterday on whether he has the votes or would go multiple rounds to secure those votes? [video clip] >> we need to get a speaker tomorrow. we need to get the house of representatives working and you can't do that without a speaker. and our dearest ally, israel we need to help them as well. >> we have a few more people we need to talked to, listen to and then we will have a vote tomorrow. host: again that vote at noon eastern. the other story we are following

president biden is traveling to israel today with meetings tomorrow amidst the war against hamas. yesterday after meeting with the israeli prime minister's shared some of president biden's agenda with israel. [video clip] >> on wednesday president biden will visit israel. he is coming here for a critical moment for israel and he is coming here to do the following. first, he will reaffirm the united states'solidarity with israel. he will make clear as he has done unequivocally since hamas slaughtered 1400 people that israel has the right in the duty

to defend its people from hamas and terrorist and prevent future attacks. he will hear from israel but they need to defend their people as they were with congress to meet those needs. second, he will underscore our crystal clear message to any actor trying to take advantage of this crisis to attacked israel. don't. he has deployed to aircraft carrier groups to the region. third, the president will coordinate with our israeli partners to secure the release of hostages taken by hamas including men, women, children and american citizens as an indispensable humanitarian effort. fourth, he will receive a brief

on israel's war aims his strategy. fifth, he will hear from israel how they will conduct their operations in a way that will minimize civilian casualties. host: that was a secretary of state antony blinken. president biden will be there tomorrow. we are talking about that story and the house speaker vote. a very busy day for washington. phone lines are split by political party for republicans (202) 748-8001, for democrats (202) 748-8000, for independents (202) 748-8002. we will start with the republican line, this is ray. caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. they need to get that done. they need to get a speaker.

jim jordan is a good guy. i really hope he gets elected. they need to get that done because there are a lot of things -- that congress needs to be doing. helping israel, yes. i totally support helping israel and what they are doing. everybody who thinks sanely has to believe that israel has the right to defend itself against terror. it is their land. i believe god gave them that land. i hope congress gets its act together and gets a speaker. host: were you supportive of kevin mccarthy or steve scalise? does it matter to you who the speaker will be? caller: scalise would have been a good choice.

mccarthy, so-so. but they need to get a speaker selected so they can get some business done. without a speaker nothing will get done. things are at a stalemate. right now, there are a lot of things not getting done. host: that was ray out of north carolina. this is the headline from axios, the gop hold out for six. the web counts puts the jordan opposition blog to around 6-20 members. 55 republicans said they would not vote for jim jordan. they have narrowed that number down and yesterday, there were

several high-profile members who announced their support for jim jordan that seem to show some momentum including mike rogers from alabama with a tweet yesterday saying i have had to cordia, thoughtfulnd productive conversations with jim jordan. we agreed on the need for congress to pass a defense appropriations act and the farm bill. i have decided to support him as a speaker of the house. waggoner was another know from last week. he said let me be clear, i will not work with democrats.

then kim calvert said, keeping america safe is my top ioty. after conversati wh jim jordan about getting theou back on a path for national security. let's get to work. there are several holdouts still including carlos gimez saying that he will support kevin mccarthy and i intend to vote for him. i will never support hakeem jeffries. hakeem jeffries is expected to be the democratic nominee for speaker. we will find out a lot more later this morning around lunchtime. noon eastern is when that vote is scheduled. this is karen from virginia, a democrat. caller: hello?

host: go ahead. caller: you have two things going. host: just talk through your phone and meet your tv. caller: i am talking about the nomination. i don't know why anyone would vote for someone who wanted to take over their own country. why are you sending your young men and women to fight for other countries. they need to think hard to put that man in the speakership. nothing will ever get through, the government will get shut down. the people from your state is going to suffer. you need to think about that. i want to know why we have to send our men and women over to different countries.

they have all these people and they need to send them back to fight. we don't need to send our own men and women over there. they are protesting everything about their country. send them back over there and let them fight for their country. host: that is caroline and virginia. likely referring to this story. 2000 u.s. troops are told to be ready to deploy. they would not be sent to israel but could be assigned to other countries for support roles, providing security at gate crossings. that is the associated press reporting on that deployment. this is well from madison,

wisconsin, and independent. caller: i have a couple of points i would like to make. number one is what is going on in israel. i wonder why for so many years the united states supported israel when israel did not honor a single u.n. resolution that said they were illegally occupying palestine and why this is set aside and they continue to build settlements on the west bank. it does not make sense. on jim jordan, he is a nonelection denier -- election denier. when he was an athletic director for wrestling at that school in ohio where he was caught up and covered up sexual assaults on

young men. for people to put him in that position it is ridiculous. i think the republicans have lost their way and they are trying anything they can do to maintain power and destroy this country. thank you for taking my call. host: that was well in madison, wisconsin. this is the nbc news story on the subject the caller was referring to. former ohio state university wrestlers have accused jim jordan for failing to protect them from a sexual protester when he was a coach. he had no business being the next speaker of the house. adding new dimension to the speaker's race. they bring in a controversial part of his past.

that is more reporting from nbc news. this is cindy and connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i don't know about the speakership. i thought steve scalise was a good pick. i don't know why he could not coalesce support. that is my thought on that. as far as the conflict in israel , with jim jordan he has that stain on his past. it is weird that wrestlers could be abused like that. but i don't know much about that. i think it is on both sides.

i don't think any side has the moral high ground when it comes to those kind of things. anyway, with israel, i don't want to send my son over there. i support israel, the arab nation is huge and israel can't have this one plot of land. we did empty the settlements out in gaza but they still can't get peace. i don't like what is going on with our college campuses. i feel like all of this is part of this marxist agenda. is not any different than blm. there are wannabe palestinians

on college campuses. i believe in free speech but i don't like all of this rhetoric. it is hurtful and uncalled for. i don't know what is happened to our sense of humanity and compassion. it is very scary what is going on. it is definitely hate speech and we are in danger of the holocaust all over again. i think people have forgotten. with the nine they say our own government did it. now they think israel staged it so they could take landover. the world has gone crazy. the palestinians were celebrating in the streets. they were taking cheap loads of

hostages and they were all celebrating. it is all horrible. host: elroy out of west memphis, arkansas. caller: i just want to say that jim jordan can tell people, they are saying what they want to do for the american people and not saying what they want to do. they should listen to the american people. under the republicans in 2001, what would you do if you are in my position? host: michael is in michigan, and independent. good morning. caller: same to you sir.

the american people say they are for the jewish people in israel. israel denied the africans that had been supporting, the jewish people and ethiopia. they mistreated them, they also gave them some kind of drug where the women could not get pregnant. host: michael, what do you think about president biden going over there today? caller: i think it is a good thing. i heard president biden say something i'm in agreement with. there should be a two state solution. host: do you think we are closer or farther away from a two state solution? caller: could you repeat

yourself? host: do you think there will be a two state solution at some point? caller: i don't know with the encroachment of the israelis and just squatting in people's houses. that has not been brought up. they go into people's houses and push the people out. host: there are plenty of colors to go to. this is kenny, a republican. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i don't believe that biden should go to israel alone. there are antagonists on both sides. there has been a prolonged process. israel has the responsibility, there were two chances for peace. the first one was at camp david

accords with jimmy carter and arafat. they reached an agreement and from what i understand, israel reneged on that. there was the second one in oslo where israel had the chance for peace and getting the plo to the table. all people want is safety for their families, israelis and palestinians. the bottom line is that children are dying on both sides. it is sad to see that. in terms of jim jordan, nothing will get done. he has been in congress for 17 years and he has not penned a

single bill. it does not seem like he is building anything it just a teardown. i have been a republican since 1980 but i am like liz cheney, a common sense republican. we used to stand for anti-communism and anti-russia. it's a continuation of world war ii, stalin, the lineage of russian leadership. this is a continuation of the communist thing of occupation. occupation is unnatural. anyone who occupies someone without seeking a remedy is asking for trouble which has lasted 75 years in israel. host: we got your point.

that is kenny in new york city. this is usa today, there are three paragraph bio on jim jordan saying jordan entered the house back in 2007 as a conservative bomb thrower who was a thorn in the side and a founding member of the fruiting caucus. -- freedom caucas. he served as the freedom caucus chair. he backed mccarthy as speaker. jim jordan is one of the few gop lawmakers spearheading the impeachment inquiry or into joe biden and he is a staunch ally of donald trump.

more on jim jordan from matt gaetz the republican of florida who held lead the ouster of kevin mccarthy. [video clip] >> how do you think of how quickly jordan he is becoming speaker? >> jim jordan has exquisite speakership skills. he is the right man for the job. >> someone viewed as a conservative outsider and now becoming the speaker of the house? >> it's exciting that he is the speaker designate and i think it

will help us win elections and he will be a tremendous leader and communicator. host: matt gaetz will get a vote on the floor today. noon eastern is when the house will me and move quickly to a speakers vote. out of ocean city new jersey, and independent. caller: on the middle east, pacifism is the only answer to the world's problem. war is never the answer. costa rica and 20 other countries have gotten rid of their military altogether. the quaker and mennonite position is the only answer. the u.s. is a militaristic nation and many problems would

be solved if we use the money we spent on the military to solve social problems. host: this next call is out of philadelphia. caller: my biggest concern with the speakership, i don't know where they stand on continued support for ukraine. i do believe we have to help ukraine in every way but i think they are edging away from any kind of support of that. the second thing i am concerned about, i don't think there is any moral equivalence between hamas and israel. one thing that concerns me, this finding between hamas and israel

will be a long fight. it will be in the tunnels, from house to house. it could take weeks or even months. it will be like world war ii or rock. i think it would be better if we can avoid it because i think it will be horrible. host: on the ukraine aid, stick around later this morning former governor jim gilmore is coming on this program and we will talk about ukraine aid and what happens now in the wake of the prospect of war in israel. we appreciate the call.

this is an independent out of minnesota. caller: good morning. jim jordan as speaker of the house, i am just afraid that he will just sweep all this dirt under the carpet. as speaker of the house he can make people frustrated and in a year a lot of people have forgotten what has gone on. i have not forgotten jordan's refusal to testify on january 6. that is disturbing for me anyway. israel, that is the millennium old family feud.

i don't know which writing is right, is that the bible or the koran? i don't have an opinion there. i feel sorry for the victims. host: this was senate majority leader chuck schumer yesterday talking about his trip over the weekend to israel and this is what he had to say. [video clip] >> i come before the senate with the heart full of grief. i am shaken by anger and fear but with the resolve to act. i come with my spirit moved down to its core by the terrible things i saw these past few days. this morning i returned to the united states after leading a bipartisan delegation to israel along with senator rosen, kelly ann romney. as the first jewish majority

leader and the highest-ranking jewish official ever i wanted to be there and i felt an obligation to be there. it is a trip i will remember for the rest of my life. a visit to the only jewish state on earth facing one of the darkest hours of a 75 year history. we traveled to deliver an unmistakable message. we, the american people, stand with the people of israel in this moment of need. we said to the people of israel, we have your back, we feel your pain, we ache with you. in the coming weeks, the united states senate will do everything possible to help israel eliminate the threat that hamas presents. host: senate majority leader

chuck schumer yesterday. that came in around 3:00 p.m.. the house is in today at noon in the business of the house is electing a new speaker. this is david in massachusetts, a republican. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am calling about the process of electing a new speaker for the house of representatives. they need to get back into regular session. taking up the current issues, the issues of israel particularly. the formalities of the pro forma session in a few minutes. there is no reason that an election cannot be held the stud.

-- instead. if the house of representatives can get back into it, what could be done instead? assign a specific amount of time each day to consider current issues. right now, the budget and israel and a specific amount of time to consider the select the speaker of the house. perhaps just a majority could decide for now. or senator mccarthy could

substitute as speaker for now. this would enable an orderly consideration of current issues. host: if we get a speaker today, and if it is jim jordan will there be an orderly consideration of these issues that you're talking about? caller: the selection of the next speaker of the house of representatives. host: that is our last caller in our first segment but stick around, there is plenty more to talk about. next we will be joined by mychael schnell from the hill and later we will be meeting with shibley telhami for discussion on the war in israel

and the humanitarian crisis in gaza. stick around, plenty more when we come back. ♪ >> next monday watch books that shaped america. we teacher mark twain's novel the adventures of huckleberry finn. the novel was controversial and natures but has sold 20 million copies worldwide. the library of congress quoted ernest hemingway's says all modern american literature comes from huckleberry finn.

watch books that shaped america featuring the adventures of huckleberry finn. c-span now our free mobile app and online at c-span.org. also, scan the qr code where you can learn more about the authors of the books featured. live sunday, november 5, author and naacp president will talk about free speech, censorship anmore. a guide to free speech law and the debate surrounding it. join the conversation with your phone calls and text.

in depth with nadine strassen on book tv. >> since 1979 in partnership with the cable industries c-span has complete coverage of government. c-span gives you of front row seat to how issues are decided. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. if you ever miss c-span's coverage you can find it any time on c-span.org. videos of key hearings and debates which are markers that guide you to interesting and

newsworthy markers. this timeline tool makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. "washington journal," continues. host: for a deeper dive on the speaker election we are joined by mychael schnell. holdouts could blunt jordan's momentum. how many holdouts are we talking about? guest: right now, at least six republicans who are saying they will not support jim jordan with his speakership candidacy. there are a number of other lawmakers who are remaining coy

and not answering the question. some folks saying they would reveal their vote when they cast it. when you look at those six republicans who are already saying they would not support jim jordan. that's enough to take this whole thing. he has to get at least 217 votes. there are reports that one republican will be absent. that means is that of being able to lose four republicans that would mean three. when you talk about this republican conference, one vote could really make the difference. there are six nose right now so it will be interesting tactically. congressman jimenez, lawler and

bacon would support kevin mccarthy. mike kelly said they would support steve scalise. and can bog told reporters that he is in no but there are a number of lawmakers who have not said how they will vote. host: this boat is a roll call vote. the names of individual members get called out in alphabetical order. who should we be watching early on to determine whether this is a drip against jim jordan or a flood against jim jordan? guest: the guys who are higher don bacon, mario deas and ken bock. he could be tanked right at the beginning of the alphabet.

some lawmakers can skip their turn and come back to them afterwards if they don't want to determine the vote count. there are some lawmakers who say they will withhold support at the top of the alphabet. at the beginning of this roll call we can see what his chances are. host: i saw an article with don bacon who said he hopes his last name was zacon so he would not have to be at the top of the vote. it will be called by patrick mchenry at noon. was the first thing we will see? guest: we will see some speeches. soon after, the understanding is

that we will get into the speaker's race. it was two weeks ago today that the house voted to oust kevin mccarthy and has been in the state of paralysis where they could not make any legislation. the budget deadline, supporting israel, this is in a big priority and urgency to elect a new speaker and get on with legislative business. two weeks and, it's likely the house will get to the vote quickly. host: mychael schnell had an article up on the hill before the speakership vote today. but if you want to ask her question, now is the time to do so. for republicans (202) 748-8001, for democrats (202) 748-8000,

for independents (202) 748-8002. as folks are going in, how different is jim jordan's vision of a leadership than kevin mccarthy or steve scalise? is it a radically different house if jim jordan is speaker? guest: in a lot of ways know but some ways yes. ideologically speaking jim jordan is aligned with kevin mccarthy and steve scully's they all voted against certifying the votes of the election. they all wanted to cut spending but on the other hand, this is jim jordan who has a history of being a conservative bomb thrower. he is a founding member of the freedom caucus. he has tried to force shutdowns in the past and been a thorn in leadership's side.

he started to make this transition into a leadership ally. jim jordan has developed into a different kind of lawmaker but he has that conservative hard-line history that makes them different from kevin mccarthy and steve scalise. host: was there something that caused that transition into becoming an allied? at one point boehner referred to him as a terrorist. guest: he careened to become a leadership ally that ended him with the gavel of the judicia ry. host: if jim jordan becomes the

speaker, he will not be chairman of the house judiciary. traditionally, the speaker would not be a chairman of a huge committee. guest: that's the question right now. someone like mike johnson who could potentially take the gavel. but we are in uncharted waters. this is an unprecedented situation. there is not a guide to work off of. there are a number of names being loaded. what will the scope of the committee look like afterwards? jim jordan has been a hardliner. host: mychael schnell is with us from the hill newspaper. we have a democrat from ohio. caller: hbo and george clooney are putting out a documentary

about jim jordan and his cover-up of the pedophile at the university. he is an animal and he did cover it up and i can't wait for it. i hope everyone watches it. an hbo documentary on this animal, jim jordan. host: these allegations going back to jim jordan's time when he was the assistant wrestling coach. he denied he had any knowledge of the abuse going on at ohio state. what can you add to that? guest: we saw this play out in 2018 the nice allegation resurface. jim jordan be immediately denied them in his office said that if he was aware of the allegations he would've acted upon it. we have not seen this story brought up.

nancy mace was asked about these allegations and she said she was not aware of the allegation. host: sean out of maryland, and independent. caller: good morning. i don't believe jim jordan is the right choice to begin with. i don't think he has the votes to secure the speaker's position. i am more interested in knowing the path for hakeem jeffries to get the four republican crossovers and him to be appointed speaker of the house. guest: it is a good question. the odds of hakeem jeffries becoming the next speaker are extremely low. moderate republicans are getting frustrated with this process, the continued paralysis in the house. most republicans says there

hardline is teaming up with the democrats to put a democrat in office. republicans hold the majority so they want a republican speaker. they hold themselves responsible around not being able to coalesce around the speaker. but it is very unlikely that they would put in hakeem jeffries. but i could see both parties electing a speaker pro tem. hakeem jeffries becoming speaker is very unlikely. host: we saw some republican pieces fall in place. rogers, ken calvert, tweets going out in support of jim jordan. can you take us behind the

curtain and speak about the tactics that jim jordan has used to get these boats in place ahead of the speaker vote? there have been stories about campaign offices being called in districts being targeted. guest: there is a domino effect of his detractors falling. mike rogers and those other key holdouts have said they would support jim jordan after they had some pretty harsh words and they would not support him. when they announce they said they were flipping their support, those one-on-one conversations seem to have done it. receiving assurance and there has been a pressure campaign on these republican holdouts.

we saw a republican lawmakers urging their constituents to call their lawmaker to support jim jordan. we saw this pressure campaign urging them to support jim jordan. we are not sure if the pressure campaign got these for key holdouts. i spoke with congressman bullard and he said the way to get me on board is not to pressure me. when you start to pressure me, i start to turn off and will stop talking. those pressure tactics also turned off others and making them and even harder no. host: sean hannity was getting

involved with his fox news program getting involved in the campaign. guest: there was floating around twitter, a producer first sean hannity was reaching out to the holdouts saying is it true you are not supporting jim jordan and if that's true, why? why would you do this considering everything that's going on please respond by monday. one lawmaker told axios that this is not effective. these pressure tactics only turn off holdouts. if jim jordan is denied the ballot, with people like congressman bullard saying this is not the way to do it for me. caller: my question relates to the democrats and their stance.

are they always going to vote against any republican candidate . historically, is that what the republicans did when pelosi was up for speaker? guest: this is something they have been eager to point out. in january, when kevin mccarthy was fine for the speakership. the democratic caucus remained united all voting for hakeem jeffries. we saw democrats on a motion to vacate kevin mccarthy. it is the expectation when these floor votes began that democrats will once again support hakeem jeffries. they nominated him last week to be there speaker candidate.

democrats will remain united. when i was doing reporting ahead of the motion to vacate trying to figure out how democrats would break on the boat. one democratic lawmaker told me, our unity is our power here. we are in the minority but if we vote as a block that is where we can have some power and more say and sway in the minority. with the expectation that they would blow bec -- vote as a block. host: nancy pelosi, she lost five democratic votes with all republicans voting against her. this is nate in milwaukee,

wisconsin, a democrat. caller: thank you for having me. the history is one political party does not vote for the other political party regardless of the candidate. perhaps we should consider changing that and having a bipartisan speaker. whoever does get elected, i think they should consider what is referred to as the half certain rule. where is the majority of the majority party is the only people allowed to pass bills. which is just a minority of the house of representatives to put things forward. i think the speaker of the house even though it is become so partisan that only one political party get support for one of their members and the other

party does not support that person. i think it was envisioned when the house was first started that someone who was supposed to represent the whole house even though it has become tradition where it is only a representative of the majority party. if you actually had someone bipartisan, look at kevin mccarthy. i think democrats did not want to support him because he did not want to make a deal with them and number two, he broke the deal with wide and that he had made earlier. and number three, he dropped the item they had all voted on the week after the debt negotiation he turned around and said they were trying to hinder him after supporting what he put forward. so not only did they not get

anything from him but they got stabbed in the back. guest: this is likely going to, as we talk about additional aid to ukraine which is been a polarizing issue in the republican party. there was a vote on sending additional ukraine and more republicans voted against that aid then not which means that a majority of the republican conference is against additional aid. that's a significant way for the vote to break even though ukraine is an ally to the states. as we talk about additional aid packages to ukraine as the year

continues to progress, expect to hear howells from republicans saying that this does not have a majority of the majority and should not come to the florida vote. host: speaking to mychael schnell from the hill. we spoke about don bacon earlier here's a clip with him with reporters. but to give folks a sense of where he is. he will be such a key vote today. [video clip] >> let me just backup. i think people can disagree on this. nothing is every zero or 100. we have israel that needs help. we have a deadline for the cr.

i don't feel any joy saying this. my heart is broken. i would rather not to be in this situation. a small group of people violated the rules in january and then procedurally, are rules that the majority of majority when you're behind them you vote for them. nothing was done to vacate the chair. kevin mccarthy had 96% of the vote and he should be speaker today. steve scalise have the majority of the vote. steve withdrew, as an american you can't play a game where the other side is in playing by the rules.

they have been orchestrating since january to get to this point with mr. jordan. we need something, we will have to put some teeth into this. if the minority of the majority gets more votes. >> do you feel like you might make a stand? >> i wish i were back home because i don't enjoy this. >> is the pressure on you because you have to make that call? >> who are you going to support? >> i've always supported kevin mccarthy. host: that was don bacon

yesterday with reporters on capitol hill. guest: he is one of those 18 republicans who one in a district that supported president biden. i just looked at the stats on his reelection, it was 51 by 48. it's a slim margin. it would be tough for a biden district republican to support jim jordan. as we spoke earlier, upon throwing hardliner conservative. the other side of the coin, a vote against jim jordan could mean prolonging this. s period of paralysis.

another biden district republican says i feel he will hear out my concerns. we've been without a speaker and unable to do any legislative business. don bacon put out a tweet saying i am not budging. i am a five-time commander deployed to the middle east four times. i will do what is best for the country. he is in no mood to budge. host: this is jimbo from bakersfield, california with this text. can you explain how a moderate can keep their seats if they vote for jim jordan? would he lose in 2024? guest: these are the questions that republicans are having to toy with.

what they know for sure, democrats are seething at the opportunity to campaign against these biden district republicans. host: you are sort of dammed if you do dammed if you don't. guest: they write themselves. regardless, these biden district but republicans will have a campaign ads. host: let me get you one or two more calls. this is jerry from new jersey, a democrat, good morning. caller: i am a registered democrat i would not vote for a democrat again. i am amazed, not only listening to you.

witnessing a person like jim jordan r a person like a donald trump you show who you are. c-span, you are just as bad. i noticed that all of the democrats pick one of the republicans for sexual things and all of that. biden raped somebody. 4 what is your question about the speaker vote -- host: what is your question about the speaker vote? caller: i think jim jordan what perfect speaker. i know why the democrats are against him. wise the media so against -- why

is the media so against him? host: what happens with the impeachment investigation into the biden family if jim jordan becomes speaker? guest: it would continue. this was asked behind closed doors last week and the candidate forum with steve scalise and jim jordan. both candidates said they would allow the impeachment inquiry to continue. host: last call for michael snow. caller: your ignorance of republican callers is unbelievable. i don't know how donald trump can run for president and jim jordan and can run for speaker

of the house after the insurrection of the united states government. what is going on? host: michael schnell on january 6, 2021 and how it may hang over the vote. guest: it definitely does. this is especially a significant you -- in sharp focus right now. i spoke to him last night following that closed door gop meeting and he said i need to talk with jim jordan and i need to see what his stances on the 2020 election. he said if he is going to lead this conference during a presidential cycle, he will need

to say that donald trump did not win the election. this is still hanging over today's vote. he told jim jordan that he is still right now a no. he plans to speak with head of the vote --with jim jordan head of the vote. i thought it was interesting, especially during a presidential election year. whether or not he will get that, because of course jim jordan a big supporter of donald trump. that remains to be seen. host: the best place to watch the speakers race is on c-span at noon. best place to read about it is

on thehill.com. next we will be joined by a professor from the university of maryland. we will be lit or joined by -- l we will later discuss the future of usaid yo ukraine -- u.s. aid to ukraine. >> c-span's studentcam documentary competition is back with this year's theme looking back while considering the past. -- looking forward while considering the past. in the next 20 years what is the most important change you would like to see in america, or over the past 20 years what has been

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tv.org. book tv, 25 years of television for serious readers. >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington live and on-demand. keep up withthe day''s events with campaigns and more from the world of politics, all at your fingertips. stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal, and find scheduling information for c-span network plus a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available on the apple store and on google play. c-span now, your friend proceed washington. -- your friend w seato

washington. >> summer aclu president joins us to take calls about censorship, free speech and more. she is the authorf defending pornography and the recently published "free speech: what everyone needs to know." in-depth with nadine strossen on c-span2. >> washington journal continues. host: stribley joins us now from the university of maryland. he has often served as an advisor on middle east policy.

president biden is headed to israel today. if you were advising the president on what to do and say while in israel today, what would you tell him? host: guest: -- guest: thank you for host. thing i would tell him is to be mindful of our common humanity, of the civilian casualties. the hamas attack on israel killed and wounded nearly 5000 people, mostly civilians. in the israeli bombings of gaza the toll is approaching 15,000 dead and wounded, and half a million displaced. it is a humanitarian disaster. whether the victim is a jew or an arab, there is no cause that

justifies targeting or recklessly endangering civilians. we must take this position. the president will have to speak to this direct and hold israeli hands. he also needs to speak about bombings that are killing and endangering, and rendering homeless tens of thousands of civilians. w need to be mindful of thate. the world is not only speaking to the israelis. he is speaking to the middle east, he is speaking to the world. he speaking to a lot of people who are angry about this moment of suffering. moments of suffering are stark.

people only focus on their suffering. they are incapable of empathizing with the suffering of the other. it is the role of leaders, especially of great powers, to rise above that, to reflect a moral moment that focuses on our common humanity. number two, in addition to empathizing and standing with israelis she will need to counsel them, -- he will need to counsel them. while they are going after hamas, they cannot recklessly danger civilians. the blockade of gaza, cutting off electricity and water, that

is against the rules. they are considered to be war crimes. we need to counsel against that. of course, israel has its own interests and israel has the right to defend itself, but not to recklessly in danger civilians. we need to protect our american interests. we have interests because we would be drawn in. it cannot be up like check -- be a blank check. this could expand in a way that creates a humanitarian disaster that draws a lot of actors in. the first one to be mindful of is hezbollah and the fight from the north in lebanon. hezbollah is more powerful than hamas. the israelis do not want them to get involved.

in my opinion they don't want to get involved. lebanon would stand to lose a bot, especially civilians. it is a lose-lose for civilians. people pay a price for this. more importantly, if you draw the u.s. into that fight, the president has issued a warning to hezbollah. hezbollah is and ally of iran. hezbollah could draw iran in. host: let me focus on the civilian side of this for second. this is the editorial board of the wall street journal today. "palestinian lives matter, except for hamas," saying that the responsibility for palestinian lives rests with

hamas. "hamas was left in power in gaza plot the assault earlier this month. israel's goal is to destroy hamas." in the future it will save as many israeli lives as it will save palestinian lives. guest: they cannot justify recklessly endangering civilian lives. we do not know what is being targeted. you a lot of leaders in israel are saying our mission is to extract a price. we see some all whose hearts harden on both side, who no longer differentiate between civilians or hamas or israel and the military and the rest of the

civilian, israeli population. that is wrong. there are rules of international law, rules of war that have to be abided by. they are being abided by. hamas is to blame for the attack, and for being the destructive organization that it is. nothing excuses what they have done. in all honesty, they took control of gaza in 2006. gaza was still under occupation at that time with no end in sight. clearly, the west bank right now, the occupied west bank is under control of the plo, which is not using violence.

we cannot just use an awful organization like hamas that has committed war crimes a a justifications -- as a justification for hurting tens of thousands of civilians. we prepared to pay the price of having tens of thousands of deaths in gaza. they are for achieving a political end. that political end will not ring about any outcome that you remember. this is a population that is mostly made up of refugees and descendants of refugees who left their homes in central israel. if you witnessed the bombings

and you felt guilt -- whether or not it is about hamas, what will happen to the young people who will grow up next? what will happen after you destroy hamas? the president of the united states has the most influence with the parties on the ground, he needs to go beyond hearts at the moment, he needs to be sober. host: as we know, president biden is headed to israel today. he will be there tomorrow in meetings. we are expecting a statement from the president as well. the phone lines are open. republicans, (202) 748-8000 --

republicans, (202) 748-8001. cracks, -- democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. as folks are calling in, i want to go to your foreign affairs piece that you co-authored over the summer on this question of a two state solution, saying israel's one state reality is time to give up on the two state solution. liza tend to give up on a tuesday -- why is it time to give up on a two state solution? guest: the promise of two states has been used as a smokescreen to hide a one state reality. i was in israel and the west

bank a few days before the horrible attacks took place, and when you go to the west bank, you go to a city like bethlehem or the smaller towns around, and you see not only the wall that is cutting through the city, but also the separation wall through the city and the encouragement of jewish settlements read on the foothills that belong to these towns. it is so impossible to separate. we now have 600,000 israeli settlers all over the west bank. it is impossible to envision that they -- it is illegal under international law. they have been going nonstop.

the reality of a government in israel that does not believe in -- "the palestinians have to accept what they got. we have an environment we are not recognizing. our worry is that while we are saying "let's wait for 2 states," it has been 56 years of occupation. the palestinians do not have equal rights. they live miserable lives. this does not justify what hamas did, by the way. one of the problems we have in our discourse is people think when you explain, you justify. this is what we doing social science.

it does not mean we justify. you have to understand the context in which there was a lot of despair in because there -- in the west bank of gaza. people were expecting something to happen when biden was elected. the biden administration to settlements at the united nations. peace between israel and the arab countries, including negotiations to bring the saudis into -- that was not happening. it looked like palestinians were completely helpless in this environment. that is usually an opportune moment for militant groups to:.

hamas exploits this obviously. the surprise attack on israel will have to be analyzed for years to come. there is an environment that was not related to hamas that still exists now. settler violence was increasing in the west bank because you have a far right israeli government, who have people who are not shy, these ministers, high-level ministers like the minister of national security who very clearly is in support of violence for settlers, including the right to attack vulnerable palestinians. the horrible conditions are unrelated to hamas.

hearts are hardened. you see in the case of the israelis the witness of the horrific attacks that made them extremely vulnerable for a few days. you look at how many people now want to turn gaza into a parking lot. at the same time this hardening on the palestinian side of the hearts to permit what should not be permissible. nothing should ever justify the targeting or reckless endangerment civilians. i hope that our hearts never get so hardened as to allow that. host: i have 20 minutes left with you, and plenty of colors. this is richmond, virginia, independent.

caller: thank you, professor. can israel be charged with a genocidal crime in and international court of law in sweden? with that even happen? do you even think netanyahu will -- when you look at the history of his actions over the year, it is to completely annihilate the palestinian people, and did not even come up with a state solution. host: let me take those 2 questions. guest: with regards to genocide, i'm not an international lawyer, and i will leave that to the lawyerd to determine. more crimes for sure -- wa crimesr, for sure.

amnesty international has always identified war crimes by israel, as well as by hamas, but that goes without saying. the question is what can be done in the international community to pursue that. there are cases underway. it does sometimes affect the ability of the international community to punish. there is some restraining fact that takes place. in some cases israeli military leaders or former military leaders were dissuaded from going into countries in fear of the case that would be brought against. i doubt very much that anything of that sort would happen

anytime soon. the role of the states as a supporter of israel o prevent those cases from moving forward -- the settlements is the clearest case, put aside war crimes committed by each side. when you're looking at the settlement issue, which should be clear, every american administration until trump took issue with them and post them -- opposed them, but every time the united nations wanted to take up the issue in light of new settlements taking place in israel, the united states either vetoed the resolution or worked hard to prevent it from coming up. that is why there has been no accountability for settlements. settlements have been growing and growing. host: johnstown, pennsylvania,

this is wrong, one for -- ron, mine for democrats. caller: why don't we give the palestinians the iron dome technology? at would cease a lot of the destruction on both sides. my other question might be a little absurd. we are such good allies of israel, why don't we make florida the new israel? host: we will take up your first question on arms ships. guest: put aside the sentiment in congress on israel and palestine, the palestinians do not have a state. this article is based on the book that me and my 3 colleagues

put together on the one state reality. that book was saying we are talking about the palestinian authorities as if it was a real state. you are talking about an authority that is managing some of t affairs of palestinians on the west bank. the nature of statehood, all of that is controlled by israel militarily in reality. even gaza, which obviously does have martine amis, especially -- have more autonomy, especially with hamas in control, but the air and land are patrolled by israel. israel is considered to be the occupying sovereign power. there is no palestinian state, for one thing, to do anything or

empower them to defend their people, to control in a real way the domestic arena in which they exist. that issue does not come up. arabs and jews, israelis and palestinians are slated to live there together. no one should be pushed out. no one should be made homeless. they are slated to live together. the reality is deeply unjust. in our book we say certainly on the west bank, it is akin to apartheid. that is not something that should be tolerated. i do not see a political solution on the

horizon, but whatever political solution will take place, it has to be equitable. it has to be just. it has to protect the dignity of both jews and arabs israelis and palestinians. short that, we will see these bouts of horrific violence over and over again. we need to think about a political horizon. i blame the eight biden administration, not for the attack, but for not working hard enough to create a political horizon was real for israelis and palestinians. they have managed the crisis, instead of finding real hope for people. host: two knoxville, iowa -- to knoxville, iowa, this is linda. caller: i believe there should

peace. the biden administration needs to stay out of this, and let netanyahu do what he does best, to protect his people. when the biden administration is getting involved it has gotten dirtier and dirtier. it is all over the world what some of the palestinians are doing, not the ones living next door. i think the biden administration is doing a terrible thing. they have no soul. those people who were murdered, innocent babies, grandmothers, grandparents, it is just terrible. there has to be a solution, and the biden administration is not going to bring that to the people. let's pray for peace around the world. guest: thank you for your

prayers. i think those innocent people, whether they are a jewish child or an arab child, an israeli child or a palestinian child, they were cut short. it is hard to know the exact numbers, but hundreds of children have been killed in the past 10 days, those were young kids who had dreams, had loved ones, families. thank you for focusing on taft -- that. our common humanity should be front and center, while we are watching this immense suffering. we cannot think of it as a strategic game, winning or losing this or that as the only issue on the table. it is an issue everyone has to consider. as for biden, my theory is that

the u.s. is implicated in israel-palestine. we at the biggest backer of israel in terms of protecting israel at the united nations more than any other country in the world, providing israel with cutting edge to elegy -- technology to maintain its dominance in the region. we also give some funds to the palestinian authority, especially for humanitarian purposes in those territories. the u.s. has major interests in the region. we could get drawn in. we have troops in the gulf region. we have energy interests the region. the israel connection could draw

us into a war that we do not want, especially with iran. they have to be mindful to look after america's interests when they're going out there. you cannot give them carte blanche. there is an israeli government that many americans, including the president, has ministers in a high-level whose interests are not identical with america's interests, and we cannot assume that they will just do the right thing. the israeli people have seen them fail in predicting this attack and initially countering it. there is a lot of division in israel. israelis rally around the flag

right now, like everyone else. can we trust them to do the right thing, not only in limiting themselves to self-defense, but in terms of doing things that do not drag us into war? host: how much do you think this attack a good go saturday was about ongoing peace talks between israel and saudi arabia? i was hamas scared about the -- why was hamas scared about those peace talks? guest: when i am looking at this attack, and by the way, we were all shocked by it, meaning surprised, including those of us who are watching this closely. everyone who i have spoken with in the u.s. government, outside the u.s. government, in the middle east, in israel, in the palestinian areas, no one predicted this and were

surprised, not that hamas would want to do this. it is that they had the capability to do it, and a capability that the israelis born able to detect -- were unable to detect or respond to. there will be a lot of questions about that. a former cia director suggested that israeli intelligence might have been compromised. thiss is something the salves will visit later down the road. in terms of the timing, whether it was technical or if a an property time revealed

itself -- to the extent that it was belated, they have to calculate where they can win politically. the despair in gaza -- you have settlers. there were -- they -- biden seemed to want peace without the

resignation. there is no peaceful horizon. host: let me take two calls here. jeff, what is your question or comment? caller: is there anything we can do in terms of our leverage with israel?

we would move heaven to prevent defending israel they know we have an impending attack with their will have -- attack no will happen in gaza. what can we do got this -- for this proximal problem. we have a president who is going . there what leverage can he pull? host: you will hear joshua in silver spring, maryland. caller: i have a question about the partition plan of 1947, this

idea that indigeneity in the region is -- back in the partition plan was passed, the jews next the partition plan. that continues in some way today in the rhetoric of some river to the sea, the fact that there should be in israel. how do you reconcile having peoples try to live near each other one side says absolutely no presence, and the other side says there is a possibility of pursuing coexistence? guest: let me start with the last question. we will not revisit the entire

history of this conflict. both the jews and palestinians have moved past that point in their negotiations to support the idea of a two state solution. it was not going to happen, specially after the collapse of the negotiations bill clinton had, trying to find a settlement for israel and the palestinians. i have written about that with several colleagues, in which we revisit this. there are a lot of reasonss why it failed. what i want to say is if there is a genuine two state solution being on the table, a real, independent palestinian state in the west bank in gaza with east

jerusalem as its capital, with minor modifications both the majority palestinian the majority palestinian majority of israelis would jump on it immediately, and i would recommend that they do. it would marginalize the extremes. that is not on the horizon. it is more about a. hamas -- is more about a rhetorical statement. hamas is an extremist organization. even without hamas there was no on the verizon in 2006 before they took over. there is no end on the horizon.

hamas is part of the problem, is not the real reason why we have moved forward in finding. a sushi the last question from first caller, i am trying to explain customer -- to the best of my ability. at the university of maryland, jews, muslims.

we to be tolerant of each other. people who want to bring their political views, into the to discourse, to contact their representatives. there are lots of organization, at least in the short term, because we have such a test of the -- a catastrophe on our hands, we have a lot of organizations doing good work under difficult circumstances, a lot of support. that is something, i think a lot of the energy going to helpi

ng. host: if you follow or of his work, and find him on x. explanation -- thank you for the explanations. coming up in 30 minutes, we will be joined by jim gilmore. we will talk about the future of s. aid to crane, but before then we will have open form. republicans, (202) 748-8001.

democrats, (202) 748-8000. pendant -- independents, (202) 748-8002. >> watch c-span's series books that shaped. we will feature the adventures of huckleberry finn. the novels controversial from the beginning because of the subject matter and you to die. the -- the use of dialect. is said -- ernest hemingway said "all glitch literature comes from huckleberry finn." next monday live at 9:00 p.m.

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one-stop shop for home decor and accessory. purchase supporter nonprofit operation -- every purchase helps support our nonprofit operation. host: we are taking your calls on house speaker vote. "jordan tries to sway the

holdouts." the latest unofficial accounts from reporters the opposition close to 20 members. we we'll see what happens house ford. president biden is leaving today. the president signaling strong support, but the u.s. with strikes on palestines. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats.

(202) 748-8002 for indpendents independent. guest: -- caller: i am a marxist. i am in favor of a one states. -- state solution. no jewish state no islamic

republic of iran. no religious state! netanyahu is corrupt fascist. he is finished because of this. israel is a settler state. what we need is multinational-- not twos states -- where everyone is equal under the law and in the marketplace. i don't know if you want to ask any questions. host: thank you for waiting through the bring. that was david in new york city. this is jerry in texas. caller: long time listener.

i will be 88 in a few days. i make a point of watching the local weather and then watching c-span. i caught the 95th congress convention at diversity of chicago. guess what? u.s. communist party celebrated 100 years in 2019. the communists, marxists muslims are united america -- united

against america. host: an entire religion is united against america? caller: no, i think marxists and are united against -- muslims are united against america. host: all muslims are united against america? caller: i don't. host: our next caller is from north carolina. caller: it sleeves me -- slays me that jim jordan even has a

chance of becoming speaker of the house. it seems to me the insurrection is continuing from inside the halls of congress itself. jim jordan voted against certifying the election. he for his action -- he preemptively requested a pardon for his actions. i can leave the republicans cannot find -- republicans cannot find a one person. he is never written or passed legislation by himself. it will be a big mistake of the

house selects him to be speaker. has to be some moderate. host: that is paul in north carolina. this was jim jordan yesterday, speaking with reporters about whether the vote today would go arounds. [video clip] >> how will you vote -- s how many vote are you willing to go through tomorrow? >> we need to be helping our closest ally israel. >> do you expect multiple roll calls? >> we have a few more people are going to talk to. host: that was jim jordan yesterday talking with

reporters. we are expecting plenty of reporters on capitol hill ahead of this vote today at noon eastern, and several went counts -- wips count froms porters. the house speaker vote today and president heading to israel. our next caller is melvin. caller: i agree with the last gentleman on jim jordan. he is a maga follower. he will try to run the speakership as if you was donald trump. like the last gentleman said, need to find someone more

agreeable, so we can move on country, and get things lined up. host: as a democrat is there a republican would find to be more agreeable. i meant to say more moderate. caller: i am assuming who they got as a stand should remain as speaker. i think you would be a more suitable person jim jordan. host: this is michael in hagerstown, maryland. caller: i wanted to speak to that previous guy was on.

i wanted to talk about the palestinians and the arabs who surrounded israel, push israel -- who want to push israeli into the sea. none of the arab states surrounding israel one to help palestine. hamas would not exist, neither would hezbollah, without iran. until the head of this -- until we deal with the head of the snake, retribution, oilfields, nuclear sites in iran need to be wiped out. i have a son being sent to the middle east.

i i'm really worried. host: was this a scheduled appointment or was this will heard about, the 2000 additional call-ups? caller: it was several months coming. it scheduled before the blow up. the palestinians' problem host: that's michael in maryland. here's a story on the additional deployments, 2000 u.s. troops told to be ready to deploy, the american soldiers would not be sent to israel but could be

assigned to other countries in the region for support roles such as medical assistance and providing security and gate propping. that is the front page of usa today. on hamas, one more column for you today, this brad stevens piece in today's new york times, bears the blame for every death in this war is the headline. the terrorist group profits from dead palestinians and israelis alike. hamas wants the benefits of being a perpetrator and the sympathy of being a victim at the same time. he says we ought to be able to get this right. the central cause of gaza's misery is hamas. it alone bears the blame for the suffering it has inflicted on israel and knowingly invited against palestinians. best way to end the misery is remove the cause and not stay the hand of the remover. brad stevens in the new york times. this is ruffle -- russell in massachusetts, good morning. caller: good morning.

i would like to comment on the fact that it is really unimportant who becomes the speaker of the house. you think in order to move the country forward when -- forward, why not have six or seven contributing democrats voting for whoever they want the republicans want to put on a speakership in order to move the country forward and get things done? it is very difficult to get things done right now because chuck schumer won't even put a bill passed in the house onto the floor of the united states senate. so what is the big deal? host: do you think jim jordan is a kind of guy who can get done? caller: absolutely. but if you are a democrat, all

you are doing is holding up for the house of representatives. they get the business done. you're not gonna change 80 democrats mind on a bill. they will still vote however they want to vote on a bill. it is just ridiculous who the speaker is. you could make me speaker or newt gingrich or anybody not evening in congress because the job is not to make bills by themselves. host: and the job, really the one power of the speaker is to put legislation on the floor the house, so today -- say you are speaker, what would be the first order of business? caller: we refund the israeli

people, to help them settle this business that has been going on for 50 years. host: that is russell in massachusetts. here is more on israel from the floor of the senate yesterday, cinema nor a mitch mcconnell expressing his support for israel. [video clip] >> friends of israel certainly cannot afford to be silent. [indiscernible] the united states must lead by our example. in supporting its efforts to defend itself for as long as it takes. as i aligned -- outlined over the stay work period, it clearly distinctions between the aggressor and victim in this war. no matter how many voices in the media attempt to "both sides" a

terrorist attack, there is simply no equivalence here. responsibility for the murder of israelis lives from the terrorists who pulled the trigger and regime that arms and trains them and responsibility for the suffering of the palestinian people and hamas terrorists who consolidated power about flinging civilian officials off of rooftops, using scarce building supplies to do terror tunnels. turning pipes into rocket launchers and use the residence of gaza as human shields. make no mistake, the surest way to stop violence against israelis and oppression of palestinians is to wipe terrorists like hamas from the faith of -- face of the arthur. to that end, the united states must continue to provide maximum

support to israel's counterterrorist operation as long as it takes. host: senate minority leader mitch mcconnell yesterday and the senate. back to your phone calls. this is steven in new bedford, massachusetts, line for democrats. go ahead. caller: hi. so much to go through here. after mitch mcconnell's speech. i want to go back a little bit on some of the other things you were talking about. first of i want to give a shout out to to the united states coast guard, homeland security. but i remember the ronald reagan years where we had conflicts and it was settled. some through diplomacy and some were not. but every time we get into a situation like this, where somebody attacks somebody & yells get involved, there is

always death, you know? you get attacked, should you retaliate or do whatever? we have been doing this for ever , back and forth, the war. anyways, to the speaker, to my mass old brother, the speaker of the house is the third in line for the presidency. and we don't want somebody like jim jordan as third in line for the presidency. i remember tip o'neill back in the 80's -- 1980's who could cross the aisle and work things out with republicanism and going back to ronald reagan, republicans back in the 1980's -- i'm 62 now, back in the 1980's i was in my 20's, going into my 30's when i was watching

politicians. the republican party in my belief is over, they are done. they are not going to win anything anymore. and they're talking about taking eight away from people that need aid and they want tear -- i'm american. usa. but you have some republicans in there, it will be an interesting day today to watch what will happen on the floor of the congress. host: and it starts at noon on the house side. you can of course watch here on c-span. as we said, plenty of different congressional news organizations trying to do these informal counts of republican members for against jim jordan. punch bowl news is one of those. here what they had to say of

where the no's are. jim jordan can only lose four, possibly three votes depending on the call and how many republicans are there to vote today. the no's according to punch will news says he will not vote for jim jordan, he was put off by how jordan treated steve scully's, the republican, the previous speaker nominee. can box of colorado said he has been turned off by jordan's questioning of president joe biden's 2020 victory. he told jordan he was a now during a one-on-one meeting monday night. john rutherford of florida says his vote for former speaker mccarthy, he will vote for mccarthy on the first ballot. victoria spatz says she does not like the process and she will vote against jordan. mike lawlor of new york said vote for kevin mccarthy also said he will not be deciding -- be the deciding vote against jim

jordan. carlos gimenez of florida said he has backing mccarthy. mike kelly is voting for steve scalise and congresswoman mary and etta miller meeks of iowa said she is undecided but suggested she is a no. those are just the expected knows. that is not even -- no's. that's not even the undecided. it seems jim jordan has a hell decline but he is putting the vote on house foreign we will find out early. he can only lose four votes. three if fewer than expected republicans are not there today to cast their ballots. this is marcy in north carolina, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i'm amazed i can agree with the article from the new york times and mitch mcconnell but we have got to continuously tell people who hamas is.

they are a terrorist group who has no regard for life. it is not the israelis who are keeping the palestinians suppressed, it is hamas. millions of dollars have been pumped into palestine for humanitarian reasons, and the money is used for war. israelis fight is not with the people of gaza, it is with hamas. the people of gaza are not oppressed by israel, they are oppressed by the hamas leaders that they voted in. hamas embeds itself into the population, they stole their weapons in the schools and hospitals among the people and we got -- we really don't know who the innocent are. they are all embedded in -- if israel was to lay down -- if a

mas was too lay down their guns, there would be peace. if israel lay down their guns, they would be annihilated. host: mercy in me north carolina, this is wendy, independent. caller: good morning. i have to say marcy said a lot of what i had been thinking better than i could have said it. i have a suggestion though, that doctors without borders set up field hospitals on the beaches which they can reach. they do not need to go through a border crossing and they can empty the hospitals in gaza into these field hospitals so that when the israelis do have to go in and get rid of hamas, the people that are in harm's way would have a place to be

treated. as for the speaker of the house, since the speaker does not have to be part of the house, i would recommend liz cheney. she has the respect of republicans and democrats. she would be honest and she would do a wonderful job as she showed she could do. in the impeachment trial. or the trials about january 6. i would recommend her. thank you. host: debra's next out of alabama, line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say jim jordan is wrong for speaker. i call him a do nothing but chaos congressman. i fell jim and others [indiscernible] also i wanted to respond to the

independent about moderate dems having republicans to vote in -- helping republicans to vote in jim jordan. that's second happen because jim jordan does not want to work with democrats. he has proven that during his whole 16 years in congress. so why can't a moderate republican vote with democrats to get a speaker and jim jordan is that that person. it is the republicans who have no agenda and is not want to legislate, only create chaos to satisfy their base and possibly get reelected. host: did you want steve scalise to be speaker? caller: i really don't care on their end who is speaker, as long as it is someone that wants to work across the aisle and get things done. host: i guess that is my

question, do you think steve scalise was someone who could work across the aisle and get things done? caller: i think he would've worked across the aisle to some degree, maybe not to my satisfaction, but to some degree to get things done. jim jordan has not done anything to try to work with democrats at all. and so with israel, i'm like the rest of the people with israel, if israel lay down their guns, they will be annihilated by hamas. but if hamas laid on their guns, i feel like there would be some peace as well. that is really all i have to say. host: carol in florida is next, line for republicans, good morning. . caller: good morning. i am from florida and i'm ashamed of one of our congressmen. host: which one? caller: matt gaetz of course.

we had a good speaker, we had kevin mccarthy, and these people that say republicans don't work with democrats, let me remind them that kevin mccarthy was removed because he did work with the democrats. in the democrats did not do anything to keep congress going. they just sat on their hands and let him voted out. republicans should not be working with democrats because it costs them everything. you need to get a speaker. put kevin mccarthy back in because he was doing what needed to be done and he was crossing the aisle. maybe for the other congressmen too much but matt gaetz and his gang agenda has got to go. this should be sanctioned, caller: what is -- sanctioned out. host: what is your view on jim jordan? caller: he is smart but he is tough. he could have a hard time, but

it does not mother whether you like someone or not, we need a working government. and we need a budget because israel was savagely attacked and have the right to wipe out gaza and anyone else that comes after them. they gave them all the notice they need to get out and if people didn't get out, that is part of war. host: that is carol in florida. this is larry also in florida, delray beach florida, independent. caller: agree with the last caller that the democrats could've cap mccarthy in sizing that was a mistake if they really wanted to play the game but my real commentary is on the israeli issue that i'm reading that the iran u.s. sanctions and missile program are about to expire. this administration is doing nothing about it. i think the biggest issue is the nuclear program.

israel has an existential therapy because this administration let the missile program go to a point where they can reach israel easily. so they have to take out the reactors. so what is it they can do with respect to this reactor? it is about weeks away from having material so i don't know what can happen. the united states, they're going to help them more israel has to take them out. that is my issue. host: larry in florida, our last caller in this segment. 45 minutes to go this morning and in that time we will be talking about the future of r jim gilmore. he served in the trump administration and ambassador to the organization for security and cooperation in europe. stick around for that discussion. we will be right back.

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at noon eastern on book tv, on c-span two. announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: a conversation on usa to ukraine. our guest is jim gilmore, serving as u.s. investor due to organ nation -- organization for cooperating in europe during the trump and ministration. governor, how do you think the outbreak of war between israel and hamas has changed the conversation about continuing usa for ukraine? guest: i think it is a diversion. first of all let me quickly say that we simply cannot allow to stand and attack across the gaza border that attacks women and children, murdered people, attacked babies, committee kidnappings, holding hostages, that cannot be the new order of the day. we have already seen a lot of that in ukraine and now we see it in israel. that cannot be the future, so i

think israel has to do something to protect themselves, but the issue you raise is the correct one, which is ukraine. the future rests on the ukraine war and nobody in the media is talking about the war at all. the flavor of the day is a new topic, as serious as it may be as i try to emphasize, but the point is this support for ukraine is vital. this is what will ultimately, if we don't prevail, the russians will compromise europe. i know this, i was there for almost two years, i was a representative of the united states as the ambassador. we need to stand with western and eastern europe which do not want to be part of any type of russian sphere of influence. if that should occur because russians commit -- by force or war crimes are able to concrete ukraine or neutralize a, what that will do is set russia on the road to potentially neutralize and intimidate

europe. if europe is compromised, that becomes an as substantial -- existential danger. we've got to continue to support ukraine with the finances. all of the arguments against financing, as good as they may sound, are not true. this idea we don't have the money or somehow it's being scammed or we don't have enough arms or munitions and we got a focus on the southern border, all of those arguments are false and i can address any of them i need to, but the key right now is the european war that is the key to the future of the united states. >> let's focus on some arguments. how would you assuage some of the concerns of members of congress who are concerned about where that money is going and whether it gets to its intended purpose in ukraine? how do you assure it is? guest: let's be clear, i'm a

conservative republican. the ronald reagan tradition. i understand american leadership for the world is the only thing that stands between us and a new dark age of barbarism. if you address the issues, right now i know the defense department is watching this closely. i don't think anybody ought, in the western world, has any obligation to certify perfection anywhere, not in ukraine or anywhere else. the main goal is the question are we getting appropriate amounts of munitions and support , economically and otherwise, so ukraine can survive? because it is in -- it is an onslaught by russia that we have to keep our eye on. i will not give any sort of certification and i'm not a person investigating it as i was when i was attorney or prosecutor but the main point is we gotta keep our eye on the ball and that means we gotta get the resources there and we are. the russians started this war. they are the ones that called

this tune, they are trying to do the conquest right now. so the point is we have to be prepared to resist that, otherwise europe is in danger and that makes america in danger. host: can we supply israel and supply ukraine and ensure deterrence against china, against taiwan, and have enough supplies for our own stockpile needs? what do you say to those concerns? guest: that is a long question let me make it clear that the defense department and state department are watching the money closely, particularly now, to make sure money is not skimmed off of the top. meanwhile, we do have the resources as the great power in the world to support the conflicts pressed upon us. right now that is principally ukraine and the danger to europe . i recognize i know i am a broken record but that is the key. now the israeli were underway

which is atrocity, it was atrocity on purpose, for the purpose of trying to make the jewish people in israel and worldwide insecure, their worst fears based upon their history, now gaza, the hamas maitre -- make come true, and the goal is to present this in a limited way. with respect to resources, look, if ukraine goes wrong, if ukraine goes haywire and russians are able to prevail in their efforts to rebuild their empire, at that point that does encourage the chinese to move against taiwan. right now, we do not need a third conflict which i think may well happen but the united states is a great power and is able to deal with these issues. if we don't have enough resources, we better be in the business of getting them because if we can stop the russians in ukraine, we can control the issue in the middle east and at that point there is a chance this can go into a calm or field.

if the russians win, eventually, not today or tomorrow, eventually they will try to expand their empire. eventually the chinese will be encouraged and at that point the united states does not have the luxury of being isolated -- isolationist power. we should not be anyway. my fellow republicans making the argument we should not be supporting ukraine because it is not our business just don't know what is happening -- going on in the world and you have to be in a position to provide american leadership. if we do, allies will stick with us in the pacific and europe and a large major war can be averted. if we don't, i think we are going to have to simply recognize we may be in a bigger war in the future. host: governor jim gilmore is our guest -- former governor jim gilmore is our guest until tonic like an easter call in with your questions and comments. we are focusing on the debate on u.s. aid to ukraine. republicans can call in at (202) 748-8001.

democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. as folks are calling in, governor gilmore, we mentioned your service during the trump and ministration for the ofc from 2019 to 20 to anyone. what was the organization and your role there? guest: people should think about it like a united nations in europe, in austria. it has 57 countries, everybody in europe, all of the balkans, the baltic states, the scandinavian countries, eastern and western europe, it even goes into central asia. the russians are in that organization, ukrainians are in that organization, the turks or greeks, people all through the balkans, the serbs, and of course naturally every week when i was there i met personally with the quad, the french, germans, americans, and british. we all understood what team we were on by the way and how we are trying to protect the people of the west and really of the

world by putting forward our western values. ofsc stands for the elimination of the old core -- cold war, the extension of human rights, arms control, which is not going so well right now, and the ability to really project safety, security, and peace. but we have to stand for western values, and right now the ukraine war was a threat to that. host: in 2019 and 2020 when you were there, what where the prospects at that time for a new land war in europe? guest: things were pretty much under control. i went every week to downtown vienna where the oec met with all 57 investors and put forward the american position. my job was to protect -- project strength and deter problems. the russians were already through themselves and proxies

occupying provinces of eastern ukraine. we put in monitors to try to tempt on the conflict and begin to find a way to move the russians out again but it was more or less controlled at that time. the russians were not messing troops and certainly had not launched an invasion. i am sorry that has happened but i do think it impairs the work of the osc for certain. host: i will let you chat with a view caller starting with franklin, the line for independence. you are on the line with governor jim gilmore. caller: thanks for taking my call. i wonder if you could talk about the direct -- between supporting ukraine to defeat russia and the cascade effect that would have on russia's support for iran, iran support for hezbollah, and on and on. it seems to be the issue of the day is israel but i feel like we

are not hearing enough about direct connections between russia and what is happening and what went up as the urgent imperative to be russia and ukraine has excess elsewhere. thanks. guest: that is very insightful because it is looking at the big picture. one of my communications to the american people in c-span today as you gotta keep your eye on the big picture. what is really going on is there are authoritarian powers worldwide. principally russia and china and also iran which seeks to upset the order. they want to upset the western order of the world which means you have a rule-based situation, don't have atrocities, don't have murders, and we have free trade and opportunity to provide western leadership. there are countries now that do not like that. principally russia but also china and the danger here is this, if we falter in ukraine, if we decide we want to be

diverted to something else, principally the israeli war, the israelis know how to talk to themselves -- take care of themselves, but america needs to be supportive of the israelis because of the atrocities that were occurring against them without provocation. keep your eye on the big picture, the goal is to upset the world order if russia is able to prevail in ukraine. that encourages -- encourages the chinese in the pacific. the united states never in its history allowed adversarial powers, hostile powers to control europe and the pacific at the same time. we never allowed that, why? because it is an existential land existing danger to the united states of america. the real conflict has been triggered in europe. the russians decided this was the moment when they had to stop the ukrainians from becoming a more civilized democracy in western power and they tried to do that through military attack. i don't know what they are

thinking right now because they are not going to be able to conquer ukraine and that is principally because of the western support. but all of this is linked because we are in a global conflict right now, it is just a shooting war right now in ukraine and to the extent we see it in the middle east as well and israel. but the danger is that it could extend other places. it is really going on is this, warfare, which we are in, this is military, it is propaganda, it is working on the minds of people particularly the american people, it is economic. if you can strangle ukraine's economy, preventing them from exporting their grain by c or dividing out the western powers of support and creates bliss within the western alliance, russia could prevail. if they prevail by neutralizing ukraine, that will be a message to the rest of the europe and will be a message into the

pacific as well. we do not want to have a conflict in the pacific over taiwan, we want to not allow the russians to prevail in europe. host: what does victory look like for ukraine and, if the shooting stops with russia holding onto crimea or any part of eastern ukraine, is that defeat? guest: just a word on crimea, when i was in besser to vienna, crimea, we never surrendered to idea crimea was infected part of ukraine that had been taken by conquest. we never surrendered the idea that it needed to go back. it was a dead issue. it is putin that re-waged this by his invasion and trying to conquer the rest of ukraine as well. but the issue now is that where's the end game? i thought about that a lot, it is putin who is dictating the game. if the americans were anybody else force ukraine to the

bargaining table and force them to give up their territory, then the principal has been made. violence, military conquest, war crimes, atrocities, kidnapping of children, murder of civilians, this becomes the new order of the day. if there is a driving to the bargaining table where ukrainians have to give up territory, that is a big win for the russians. once they take your time and into bidet eastern europe, they might even attacked the balkan countries which are of course nato countries. if you compromise the baltic countries for example, at the point you directly assault the existence of nato. if nato is the principal defense mechanism for eastern and western europe at this point, there's a lot at stake. and there's a lot going on. the israeli war is a terrible thing and that is going on right now and nobody is talking about anything except that, but the listening public needs to understand, the viewing public needs to understand this is a

bigger picture going on. the real threat to the united states exists in the long run is a ukraine war and if that is why we have to spend time making sure we give them the support they need. here's the endgame, putin dictates this. we did not win world war ii the day after we end it -- invaded normandy, it took time to push back the fascist dictatorship. what we see right now in russia is a fascist dictatorship whose intention to attack your neighbors, militarily. they are making that point clear as possible. there is no question this is some sort of localized territorial dispute. that is not what is going on. what is going on is russia is working to rebuild the russian empire and sphere of influence, and if europe is compromised, the safety of the united states of america is compromised, here is the endgame, that the ukrainians will stay the course. i visited with them both sides of my ambassador ship.

i've been tomorrow you pull myself. i've been in keep and talk to them in their resolute in their attention -- intention to have their sovereignty emma -- not be a part of the russian dictatorial empire. at the end of the day, we are going to have to ask the russians. and we might be able to. we have seen cracks and crevices already in the russian situation. they lost hundreds of thousands of men, they are going to lose more, the ukrainians continue to fight for their independence and their freedom and i think they will continue to do it but at some point somebody is going to give up, either russians are going to give up or americans and their allies are going to give up. the isolationists we see in the united states are undermining the american confidence in the righteousness of what we are doing and i'm against that. i am not a neocon. i don't think you go in and take over another country militarily but i believe that we support the people fighting for their

own safety and sovereignty against the worldwide threat of russian imperialism. host: i have a call for you, pat in new jersey, republican. you are on with governor gilmore. caller: thank you. you were speaking a few minutes ago about the nato countries, and i'm asking not so much the baltics or former iron curtain countries that became nato members, what about the richer countries of europe that we rebuild after world war ii? it has been 70 years since nato was formed. how much are they contributing to freeing ukraine? the u.s. cannot do it alone. guest: the answer is the majority. there is more money donated right now to this conflict from the european union and individual european countries than there is from the united states. the u.s. is the bigger supplier of weapons and arms. we are able to do that and that was essential for the ukraine resistance but let's recognize what modern war really is, a complete and total war, a war

not only on the battlefield but a war against the economy of the other country. if the other country cannot produce value or economy or make any money for their citizens, they cannot continue the war. that is why economic support is important. and psychological operation, working on people's minds is maybe the most important thing. they can persuade the american people that somehow we are the only ones carrying the weight and we are the only ones being taken advantage of. at that point you begin to undermine america's resolve. american resolve is under attack. german, french, british resolve is under attack, but as long as we are strong and resolute and provide strong international leadership, we will be just fine. but look at the kyl institute, i think it is kiehl institute, they have a ukraine finance tracker you can see how people are putting on different money. the refugees that have come in have to be supported, the

economy has to be supported, ukraine has to be going as a country in order for it to win a conflict. if it collapses, at that point the russians prevail. you have to look at it as a bigger picture. the u.s. is the biggest supplier of weapons, but the europeans are supplying more money into the overall conflict. host: the kiel institute and they do have a ukraine support tracker. i will pull up that chart. we hear from lois in salisbury, north carolina, line for democrats. good morning. caller: top of the morning to you guys. i know c-span has documentations of it. i remember when putin met with xi, where pruden met with north korea, and i know that also net and yahoo! met with -- benjamin netanyahu met with putin. as soon as that meeting was over, yahu came back and wanted

to start -- to end the supreme court so he had the final ruling on any case. we know the people came in the streets, even the military. do you think this was a diversion to take the military off of their post or it be a distraction for hamas to come in israel to do it they did just to take it off of putin where putin can do what he wants to do. i think all of this was a diversion so we can get our mind off of ukraine and put it on israel knowing that israel can handle whatever hamas says. ukraine is the 1 -- and why do you think republicans do not want to support ukraine? host: we will take the questions. governor gilmore? guest: first of all let me say i'm a lifelong conservative republican and i know what is going on because i had the

opportunity to serve as a u.s. ambassador in this kind of capacity. i know the score. it is not the majority of the republican party against the ukraine war, it is a minority of the republican party. it is our goal to push back on that and make sure these new isolationists in both parties do not prevail because it could be global changing. we could end up in a bigger war. second of all, let's remember joe biden met with vladimir putin at the beginning of his administration. i think it was about five mistakes president biden made at the beginning of his administration that i think invited the war. you may remember he met with putin which he should not have done. he took the sanctions off of the pipeline which he should not have done. he went -- withdrew catastrophically from afghanistan which sent a message worldwide the u.s. was pulling back -- pulling back which opened the door to the invasion. president biden made a series -- i remember the press conference held where he was asked directly

what happens of russia invades and his response was maybe a little incursion would be ok. i saw it with my own eyes. i saw -- i said we are headed for a russian invasion because present biden open door. since then, president biden supported ukraine but not enough, too little too late. i think we need to be resolute here and stand by this. the final point the caller made is whether this was the diversion. i don't know if it is a deliberate version or not. i don't know what the linkages are at this point between hamas, iran, and russia. it has the effect of being a diversion. you are right about the caller and write about that because, right now, the only thing we are talking about is the middle east which takes our eye off of the ball and the main thing is this, the united states is a great power, the richest power in the world by far, the most sophisticated power in the world by far, we are the ones that stand for the proper values by far. the u.s. plays the central role.

we don't need to get into a big war but if we allow this thing to continue to unravel in ukraine, if it creates a problem in the pacific, we may well end up in a big war. my job is to speak to the american people and say stay resolute, stay strong, and we will avert a bigger war in the future. one more point i would like to make while i am -- the potential of the dark age that could come, if the russians prevail in compromising europe, if the chinese invade and conquer taiwan and send a message they are a conquering country, if the authoritarians begin to control both asia, europe, and the rest of the world, the future is bleak. we would be isolated, here training on ourselves, not be in a position to grow and become wealthy. the rest of the world would potentially be against us with

chinese and russian leadership and that is a very dark future for our future -- for our children and grandchildren. all that cannot come true. that is if we are strong, resolute, and provide leadership the people of the world are expecting and hoping for. host: 15 minutes left in the program, we talk about the debate for aid to ukraine. the kyl institute is one of those places governor gilmore mentioned has an a tracker where you can convert -- compare various countries. in euros, it comes out to about 70 billion u.s. dollars in total commitments to a third of that in military commitments closer to one third in financial commitments and a small portion of humanitarian commitments. a precis down that way and you can click around state by state states across europe and around the world. take a look at it, kiel is the website. this is chris in california, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. i want to preface this by saying

i'm 26, but my first memories were george w. bush administration, 9/11, obama, war on terror, middle east type of political rhetoric. i think i might be a little bit too young to have heard this term western values. my question is, i heard it, the only context i ever heard it around this term was western values means you don't commit atrocities but i think that is a little crazy because we killed one million, proximately, civilians and the middle east in the mid to thousands. israel is actively committing a genocide that we are supporting and we are calling them the only outpost of western values in the middle east. you are more likely to have a negative interaction or interaction.

-- interaction period or be killed by police officer here then in somewhere like china. these are all the facts. i guess my question is what exactly is the western value? what is american resolve? because i guess i'm a bit troubled by this idea that i'm supposed to believe that a culture that is from far away is more murder as i with my eyes see things that don't make sense to me. i would just like for and expose a definition of how western value is different than for example chinese value in terms of the government's decision and civilians because that does not make any sense to me. i find it ridiculous. host: got the question. guest: thanks for the question,

chris. let me see if i can keep my head together on this. first of all there is not great danger in the united states are being murdered by police. the police people across the country are highly professional. i used to be an elected prosecutor. i used to be the attorney general of virginia. i know that the police are sound, well-trained, and do not intend malice as they try to keep the communities safe. second of all, don't have any illusions about the chinese. the chinese are running the greatest totalitarian, authoritarian country in the world. they control their people through modern technology. they are committing genocide against the uighurs in part of their country. with impunity apparently. the main problem is they control their people. they have scores for people as to whether they are obeying the government orders. this is an authoritarian country and they have a vision for the world and they want that to be the vision for the world,

authoritarian country, and they can do it in part with the russians who are doing it in a more cool way, who murders his political opponents as we have seen and the use of military force to try to dominate people and reassemble a russian empire. this is the threat to the world. the direct answer to the question, what are western values? we support them and are able work for them at the osce. a means democracy, it means you elect people. don't have any illusions about democracy in china, there is not any. don't have illusions about democracy in russia. they may vote but they destroy their political opponents including murder them. one is in prison right now, murdering him slowly, and that is a meshes to the russian people the democracy is -- isn't really real. democracy is the one thing meaningful and sure it is messy in the united states and we see that now with the whole

speakership issue but we are running ourselves, the voters are ultimately the people who call the shots. second of all, human rights, i call this the knock on the door at night. we don't want to live in a world in which the knock on the door comes and -- in your holy by police to be taken to a seller or beaten and murdered which is is an example to citizens to keep your head down and not participate in liberty issues. it is the question of human rights, those kind of human rights. they really are important and meaningful. that is what we are fighting for. let's do a quick contrast, what are we seeing? in china and russia we see the exact opposite. they are making a point now worldwide that murder, force, invasion by military forces, mind control -- right now the chinese are even limiting their citizens ability to travel because they do not want their citizens to see and have open

ideas of what the west is really like. this is the struggle we are seeing right now. i'm not saying this thing will be resolved in one year and these people can take us over in one year but they can create a situation where we are hemmed in and forced into ourselves and then children and grandchildren, your children and to your grandchildren may live in a far more bleaker, darker world if we do not take the proper actions now while we have people prepared to fight for themselves . the israelis are prepared to fight for themselves. the ukrainians are specially willing to fight for themselves. the taiwanese people are ready to fight for themselves. the problem i think with bush policy was they wanted to invade and use military force and take over a country and remake the country. that has proven to be a false approach. but we can support people who want to build a proper world and western values for themselves

and that is what we're doing now. i'm afraid the world we live in, we are the essential people, though we are not alone. we have allies, we have allies worldwide, all through europe, the japanese, philippines, taiwanese, south koreans in the pacific. we are a beacon of the world and that is where we are. it is a struggle. you wish somehow you could lay down the burden but the future for the united states will not be good if we do not exercise leadership now. host: less than 10 minutes left in the program, less than 10 minutes with former virginia governor jim gilmore, republican who represented virginia from 1998 to 2002. i wanted to shift gears as we come toward the end here. get your thoughts on this election happening today in the house and what we've seen the past two weeks of a house of representatives without a speaker.

guest: this is my view. i am a lifelong republican, so i'm not kidding anybody, i will support the republican candidate next time because i do not think the biden administration should continue to go. those policies are -- should not be furthered. i will come to the speaker point in a minute you see the president of the united states, every time he gets on camera he is attacking mega republicans broadly. he hates trump for sure but in a broadbrush -- broadbrush he is trying to explain his republican opposition is not legitimate. that is the through -- that is the real threat to democracy. the culture wars going on where it is jam down people's throats the parents should not have say over their children's education in the state should use the vehicles of public education to indoctrinate kids. the inflation, enormous spending that has resulted in enormous inflation both at the grocery store and gas pump which the american people know that is what has to stop in my view.

i will be supporting that. the democrats in my view are very consistent. you don't see very much breakage there. they know what they are trying to do, they know what programs they are trying to create for the united states. the republicans on the other hand have always been more diverse in their views and we are seeing that now. i don't think it was a good idea to break up the republican leadership at this point but the renegades are trying to say things must change in the united states and the republican party must provide that leadership. that is the argument going on right now. the rest of it i think is just administration. don't worry about that, we have a majority, we should put in a republican speaker, we should then offer a positive agenda. my concern is the republican at this point is not offering his vision of what we want the future of the country to be,

which is freer and more prosperous then we see right now and safer and providing the international leadership. i spent my time really talking about foreign policy in the united states, speeches and doing writing on it but making clear today on the ukraine war. dori about this. i think the speaker thing will work out ok. right now i would look upon that is mostly administration. worry more about what the direction is the republicans are offering and the democrats are offering and be prepared to make that comparison next year. host: one a try to give you one or two more calls here. before we finish up the morning on the "washington journal." this is darrell in kentucky waiting on the line for republicans. go-ahead. caller: good morning. i have heard your speech for a while ago about ukraine and russia. i do agree, joe biden was responsible for [indiscernible]

in joe biden gave money to ukraine billions and billions of dollars and people have suffered here in ukraine, never being helped at all, and he never helped no other countries at all and i agree if president trump was in charge today, it would not happen today. president trump would talk to putin, he would have him stop this war within 24 hours. he would probably have it stop then. host: governor gilmore, follow-up on the point, do you think president trump, if elected, would see more money moved to ukraine, to support ukraine against russia? guest: my think is unpredictable. from time to time president trump said things that imply he could resolve the ukraine war in 24 hours. have at it.

but that means you have to persuade vladimir putin to pull out of ukraine because anything less than that will be a victory for russian imperialism. i think president trump is the kind of guy that would try to make a deal but i am not optimistic he could make one that would be satisfactory. if you drive the ukrainians to the bargaining table and make them give up their territory and people, at that point the russians have one. that will mean further problems in the future. one time i was having a conversation with the ukrainian ambassador and i said let's explore something here. maybe you guys ought to make a deal somewhere and give the russians something in order to create peace. his response was how can we do that? these are our people, our citizens. why should we make a deal that consigns ukrainian people to russian authoritarian dictatorship? why should we -- how can we do that?

i think that's a good message for the american people too, that we have to stand again for our western values of liberty, freedom, openness. the osce stood with that. if you go look at the helsinki -- in 2006, the americans and westerners made a deal with russians and what we got was the ability for people behind the iron curtain to be able to travel, to see things, understand things, and the result was the collapse of the soviet union. that is what the osce stands for today which is western values, openness, trans parent see, freedom, rule of law, if the courts are not honest, if people cannot get safety and security from the law, as administered by the courts, then you have a dictatorship and we stand for the rule of law, openness, democracy, freedom, and a society where you do not have to fear the knock on the door at midnight from the secret police. host: we will have to end it there for this money.

governor gilmore, foreman or republican governor of virginia, former ambassador to the organization of security and cooperation in europe, appreciate your time. that is going to do it for the washington journal. at noon eastern to elect its new speaker. jim jordan will be nominated by the republicans, hakeem jeffries by the democrats. you can watch it here on c-span and we will be back here again at 7:00 a.m. eastern and 4:00 a.m. pacific. have a good day. ♪

c-span is your unfiltered view of government funded by these television companies including media column. at media, we believe that whether you live here or right here or way out in the middle of anywhere you should have access to fast, reliable internet. media com support c-span as a public service along with these othe television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. the house is set to return today at noon eastern as house republicans vote on a new speaker. jim jordan is nominated as a result, it is unclear whether jim jordan will get the 217 votes needed for