union is the intelligence poses to our civilization, particularly in the way it undermines our ability to have a fully employed economy and might threaten our culture. >> i'm from st. louis, missouri, and i would like the president to take care of and close the border because we are getting too many people illegals in here and it >> i am from new jersey and the thing i would like to see the president addre is anything related to gaza and palestine. it is very important right now and it sucks ignorance and people choosing to not talk about it. >> watch the state of the union address thursday at 8:00 p.m.

eastern on c-span, c-span now, and c-span.org. >> next, a bipartisan group of governors discussing solutions they talk about zoning, water and sewage infrastructure, and ensuring workers can live in the communities they serve. from national governors association winter meeting in washington, d.c., this is about one hour.

>> there are also our pieces directly under our purview about what we can do to reducetate in fact it's so much on our minds that when governors get together no matter what the scheduled topic is it seems like we end up talking about housing. it is a roman empire. as i travel around the state it is a top issue. our states, we do such a great job making sure they are a great place to live and when we areá$

hard to afford to live so we all know the stories in our states, parents who is 27-year-old still lives t basement with no prospects of moving out, those who want to take a good job but would have an hour each way, people who are the backbone of our community, law enforcement, teachers, firefighters unable to the cit, businesses that cannot recruit the tower they need to power their growth. we are focused on making progress in colorado, last year i signed a bill that banned growth caps in several municipalities. we are moving forward aggressively to increase the supply of housing with more housing now looking at additional family housing and transit oriented communities

, excessive three dwelling units by right we're tackling , lbility for easing multifamily condo construction easing government mandates like , parking requirements and i'm very excited to hear what other governors are doing because this is a challenge that we all face . have a national expert on this with us who is deeply involved in the fight from a policy perspective and working with ngos in this space across the country who will help give an overview of national housing trends. charlie anderson is the executive vice president■i for infrastructure at arnold ventures. before he joined arnold ventures, which has been a great partner to us and i know so many other governors, he served as a special assistant to the president for economic policy at the white house economic council . he led their work on permitting is a great backdrop for the current role because a lot of what we're talking about here is reducing red tape bureaucracy cost in time and treasure to be

, able to build the housing stock that we know we need. now he is focused on solutionstr , better, and at a lower cost. i think that's something that we can all celebrate and with tha i welcome charlie anderson to join me on this stage. [applause] hank you for joining us. when you said you want to build

things faster, better, at a lower cost, you really had us. >> on the infrastructure team we find research build faster, better, lower cost. it means transportation infrastructure and housing. it's a really important moment and you can see that people are hearing about this all of the country so i really appreciate the bipartisan support for the issue from governors everywhere. a decade ago acute housing costs were really concentrated in sort of those coastal land constrained cities, places like san francisco and new york city but itaffordability is an issuel

around the country for people at most income levels. also workforce and seniors, everyone is struggling in some way with affordable housing on the evidence is really strong. more restrictive zoning and regulations leads to fewer homeh that housing shortage leads to higher prices and now we're millions of homes short of where we need to be based on population growth to keep up after decades of underbuildingas that half of renters right now pay more than 30% of their income on the rent each month . that's 22 million households and even worse you have 12 million of those households who pay half their income on the rent each month. home ownership also increasingly out of reach, every single state is seen house prices go up at least 25% since early 2020 some have seen it rise as much as 60% in four years. young families are buying homes six years later than they used to. somerefamilies who own already o

want to move are stuck because there is not enough inventory. not able to afford places independently toiv out their golden years and aarp is getting engaged in the fight. if you look at houston, less restrictive thcities and have much lower prices . minneapolis is an example of a city that made it easier to build apartmentsey ton of apartments built and real rents have declined even as they've risen in comparable cities so fewer restrictions equals more homes and lower costs. but houston and minneapolis ara. most cities and towns get stuck . çxstates have an obligation to

step up and we are seeing a lot of states do that. there is a menu you mentioned many of these things by enabling more people to afford to live in your state it grows your economy support strong labor market market and innovation fund services without having to raise tax rates. reducing constraints opeople's property rights. to paraphrase governor cox this , is all about ensuring our kids have an opportunity to live ray grow up. there is no silver bullet. cutting permitting times and regulatory red tape, legalizing granny flats als , allowing missing middle housing like quad plexes and cottage course to return to places where they've been banne. this is this was traditionally allowed and only in recent decades was not allowing

apartments and commercial districts and near transit eliminating unnecessary parking requirements that increase the■< opportunities for starter homes by reducing minimum lot sizes . i could go on anon really populs the aisle. republicans, democrats, independents want people to address the supply challenge. we needubsidies for deeply affordable housing the subsidies alone will not solve the problem. i think go shown that when a governor leads on the issue, you identify it as a core challenge and show urgency and come up with real solutions and you can get things done and that is h h got the montana miracle done last year.

that is why i am excited he and others are stepping up to lea fe so with that i turn it back to you. >> i want to go to governor gn forte to share with his fellow governors what he got done and how he got it done. >> thank you, jared. we looked at this problem in montana. maybe it was because of the show yellstone anveryone decided they wanted to move to the most beautiful state, and they did. >> that's assuming problem with that in this crowd. >> i'll be careful to point out that the first two seasons were filmed in yellowstone, but it's >> to change in a chain station

was in wyoming. >> we recognize, moving on. this is number one issue facing working families. it was particularly acute because people who were moving into our communities, wasn't enough supply. we recognize primarily it was a supply problem. what we did, we had the incredible blessing that our legislator only meets for 90 days every two years. a very tight window. in august prior to that legislative session, i formed a governor's force on housing. it a really broad section, bipartisan people city officials, state officials, nonprofit leaders from places

like habitat for humanity. i gave them a charge to cast a[n road net. then we went in, that was in august and we had reports by october. 9tially ran the table. we have seen great results. in one year we have seen average rental prices come down 20% in our largest communities. average vacancy rates for apartments have gone for just over 1%, which is not a healthy market. we did pass comprehensive land-use planning reform. it gets vetted through public process, everyone's voice get

hurts. the second tngparticularly for e seeing growth, there were no water and sewer infrastructure programs for new development. they all focused on early -- urban development, replacing water. ycit was the so they can put in water and sewer. we put annex your requirement on it that any sub division to qualify for thishas to be 10 unr income. it's oriented towards workforce. we authorized 80 use statewide and any community that allows single homes you allow an 80

you. authorize apartments in commercial areas. you can every tell in upstairs apartments. we ended exclusionary zoning, which essentially -- if you require big lots with big houses, they will be more nsif you want more density, th's better. we change the way we do local design review boards. they like certain species of trade. they like certain colors of siding. they like other things based one individuals on these local design boards. we said they would be staffed no longer with volunt, they have to be staffed with professionals that work with the local municipality and any requirement they place on a builder has to be related to public safety. sidewalk, but you can't tell them what kind of trees to plant.

finally, worked extensively in increasing the number of people in the trades. we created a tax credit scholarship that will pay up to $3000 per year, per employee to anyone that will send somebody to trade sooand this goes throul employers, and it's only going to get spent on jobs that are in demand, our apprenticeship ratios, quadrupling the number of apprenticeships in the states. as i mentioned, we've gotten good results. i think that -- jared, you and i have this conversation, how did you get that done? my got pushed back from the left or the right in our legislator, i would say, do we want ourpolice offico live in the community where they work?

and will this measure allow that to happen? in the end, that common sense >> a great success story, and one that many of us are looking to implement parts of. i appreciate your parts on the tactics as well. governor, talk a little bit about what's happening both in oron, as well as the city of portland, ground central for affordability but also many other things in your state. >> just very excited to hear about what's going on in montana. a lot of the same things we are i'm glad we are having this on housing, the most partisan issue onliwe all need to figure this t and i think lead the way. it's8ç not in oregon problem, as we've said, it's a national problem. we all have these issues.

i spent the last year, my first year in county in oregon. four and a half million people, bake state. issue in every place. it's not■ jt lowe■# income, its workforce housing, all types of housing, our communities don't have what they need. they've driven up --

>> oregon has a huge planning system to fight and protect our forests and farms. but we haven't had a good job s. we will now have under a couple of pieces of legislation, regional and local housing n if we don't know where we're going, we are not going to solve the problem. one of the things i did last year, under another emer order was an advisory councils similar to what you are doing in montana, 20 plus, producers, engineers, local government leaders, people walln

and being like, what do we need to do? we are still going through the recommendations, but it's everyw to model codes and permitting and land-use supply, all the things that we know our in our stay and probably in yours as well. with some of those recommendations, i have one bill in our■z&8■[$500 million to do r of things. the two biggest ticket items that we money for infrastructur. you will build housing. you don't have water, you'll have sewer. we have to put some money in there. we also need more financial incentives for workforce housing, it's the role of the state to be involved in. we have been in steeply subsizydedbut we are hearing frr private -- that they need extra

help put into the pipeline. establishing for the first time a housing accountability and production office at the state level that will provide technical as■stance oures in terms of grant. it will provide model codes and other things to simple five the local level we know most of this takes place tget more production in the pipeline. and we are dealing with land fabulous land loose -- land-use system. we have said some cities, if you can show a need for land in affordability, you should have a one-time expansion tool to build more housing, and 30% of that new developmentso, my hope is ls that and we really have jumpstarted what we need to do. the bo line people say what you have to do? you have to do all of it. all of it.

particularly in our stay what we are so short on supply where we have to really push art. i look forward to working with my legislators to get that done. it would not be a great meeting if we didn't actually challenge ourselves to do something. congress right now that would be helpful and i want to thank the western governors association for talking about the issues in the tax bill today. greater flexibility for public activity in our states. we have maxed out our threshold on public activi because we have been putting almost exclusively all of that ability into affordable housing, so we need more ability there. an w low income tax cut is really important with workforce housing. more. right now, the tax relief for american workers and family -- the tax relief bill that's in

congress dealsith strengthening this, gives us more threshold on private activity, like i said, wta has already said that is what we need to be doing right now. it passed the house 357-70. there might be some things in there that' we can get that tax bill passed, those things will be huge for all of our states. if you haven't talked to your ■úfolks, talk to your senators,e need to pass that so we can get a as well as more on public activity bonds. >> thank you governor. in role, i think anything that reduces financing costs, which is one of the key of costs, would be good. that would include fiscal responsibility, it would include ry policy, it would include tax credits as the governor had mentioned. these kinds of p

create an environment with low interest rates and specifically targeting lower financing cost for housing would be helpful. ank you, governor. and thank you so much, charlie for getting time to be here with us. i want to thank my fellow vernors for inspiring me as well. we have copied a lot of what you are doing. this the benefit of the national governors association, we should be looking at things that work. i will change my remarks just a little bit. i wia different approach. i will share something with you that you probably haven't heard yet. i really hope it passes my legislator next week or i'm going to be very embarrassed. wens here. i had an epiphany a few months ago that is very difrentwe havef things that everybody else is doing. some of it is working for sure. we would take all these ideas to

something through -- and we did -- they were a little bit water down. my local municipalities are good at watering these things down. i'm a former mayor, we don't like the state telling us what to do. it was a struggle. the epiphany was this, i needed to change my messaging. i needed something that would resonate with the people. what this, we are doing all of those things. we are doing density, building or apartment buildings. we are doing all of this stuff.e not building anymore, we stopped building 15 years ago and almost all of our states are

single-family detached owner arche pied starter homes. i'm talking about homes that are thousand square feet to 1400 square feet. how ny home like that or started your families in a home like that? almost all of us. we just upbuilding those in utah. i think in most places in the country. what i found was the starter home. that idea of the starterthe amem homeownership. resonated with everyone and cut through the clutter and could get us back the nimby-ism. most people didn't want to pick apartment building in their backyard, but their heart went out to this idea that someone could own a home for the first time. school teachers, firefighters. we took that concept, we went to our economist and they said, we need to build 35,000 starter homes --

>> starts are going down right now. part of it is because of interest rates but there other reasons. but we found out is, because municipalities burnt offering smaller like -- smaller build te biggest thing every time. the other thing that i did not see coming is, because of the bank failures happen to year ago or however long ago that was, almost exactly a year ago, they are limiting the amount of money

so many of our developers have projects on the books but cannot getction loans for those projects. or they could get construction loans, they were getting them at interest rates that were so high. 10% to 15% that they■c.m you art height, you won't build starter homes. medium home prices purchase $500,000. you have to make $170,000 to buy a home a new tile right now. 75% of you tons, if they couldn't afford a home right now, they could not afford a home. i will try to get through this quickly. this is the idea that i don't think anybody else is doing. we have a treasures fund -- a public treasure, this is where you invest all of the money in your state until it gets spent.

it's like the savings account for your state. human -- your municipalities may participate in that. for us it gets invested in short-term -- commercial paper, mutual funds, those types of things. securities -- we get about a 5% return on that every year and it's kind of a liquid fund. so we are investing ininvestingg in california. that money, our savings account, but it's not invested in utah. what if we took -- right now we are looking at 350 million but we could go up to a billion dollars and started investing it in shorterm cotruction loans for our developers to build starter homes. so, the bill has 300 $50 million in it. with a 3.5% return that will be mixed with -- or has to be mixed

xm institution. the banks will lend this out, they will makes our money with their money, they will lend it out for a year for the construction at 3.5%. the developers have to build 60% of the projects have to be homes under $350,000.hu starter homes. small lots. if you are wondering, the cities will never go for this,e citiesd here's why. we are creating a new zone, a starter home zone in utah. they have to provide smaller lots. that's part of it. but what they get in return is, they get access to infrastructure funding that we are giving them. these are deed restrictive lots, which means there are no secondary rentals. detached owner occupied. that means the big institutional investors can buy them up and rent them out. they cannot be used to secondary

rentals on the market. our cities are really excited about that purity gives them a place for their firefighters and their police officers and their teachers to live in for our kids and grandkids. we will have an opportunity to really juice to supply side of ite builders lined up. they said, if you can get us money at 3.5%, at 3.5%, we will go build all of the starter homes you want right now. i really hope this is going to work. i think it's going to work, i think it's going to work in a big way, we are excited to share more details of that with you. >> we will watch that. let me throw one more. mention financing as well. i think we are all generally frustrated around financing because it's not direct. one more that we might be familiar with is clean energy, the form of increment financing on the propertysswe are also lor

accessory dwelling construction. basically, you take out as a senior lien on the property assessment at a much lower interest rate than the commercial mortgage would be. it goes with the property that you sell in micro level we are hoping we can implement that as a lower cost financing. you can explain it all. i want to go to governor green, let me go to charlie first to comment on what he's hearing. i think it's a great exchange of ideas. basic take away is, isn't this exciting? there's so many of you taking this venue and catering states s that meets the needs of each of your people. this is -- sometimes it's hard to be hopeful about where our country is going now, but this is bipartisan work to solve a problem that is profound and people rise in so many ways. be proud of generations fromll

now. so, thank you for that. just to pick up on a few things, it's always hard the first time yogo in and you push on this and people scream, they have all kinds of reasons. but i think what we see is that, over time, you ele issue , it resonates with people. everybody's feeling it. he go at it in different ways. you pick up pieces andeven the h here is going at it again. there are no super bullets. you won't solve it in one fellir said, you need the financing tools, need the affordability tools alongside the supply. you cannot do one of the other, you have to do both. if you don't deal with supply issues, it will push on the most vulnerable people. that's why you see the places with the lowest vacancy rates, the places with the highest home prices are the ones with unsheltered, homeless population that are struggling with people getting evicted. those two things relate to each other conversation for people we

about a affordable housing or homelessness services are treating people with■d dignity e also thinking about these supply issues that are pushing more people into housing instability. i think as the governor said, looking at vacancy rates is a good of what the healthy housing -- healthy housing market looks like. when the vacancy rate is higher, the tenant ts of a second chanc, especially people who are coming from environments where they are may be coming out of incarceration, they had other struggles, making sure they had a place to go and is highly dependent on what is the vacancy rate. but that's all true for workforce. the last thing i will say, that i will shut up and let you all talk, because you are more interesting than me, there is this connection where people see -- they see a lot o they say, 's luxury housing. people don't realize any new unit that's built, somebody is movingnto that from somewhere else. if you look at the chain of

moves very click -- very quickly, class seem more affordable units become more affordable than they were before and someboat unit. that's the connection between this applying challenge in the workforce and up and down the income spectrum. i will >> they say hawaii is hell on earth and no one wants to live there. governor green, what do you do with the problem like that? >> now state to montana, it's more challenging. a couple ofings to all of her colleagues about the observations, they are absolutely what we are seeing also. but our median cos is not $1.1 million in hawaii on the islands and we have shortages of precisely the nurses, teachers, e. a couple of things have happened since we were last together. first of all, we did it recognize housing as our eatest challenge.

just like seemingly every other state. we are right there with you. we went into rules immediately like a really good solid red state. we did emergency rules on homelessness, housing, people were shocked. they said, what are we doing here and we had a war that broke out. but to try to pull back every possible bit of red we had been instructed over the many years with lots of really thoughtful studies. we did that and it became so controversialhat our developerso loved every single thing and helped us build these emergency oc of using them for fear of litigation. so that we had to compromise, compromise and then try to come back down to earth. so, there was that. then what happened was on august 8, the fire occurred. the fire in malley displaced 3000 households in a market that was already beyond tight.

you cannot rent anything for less than five or $6,000 a month already on maui. threeverytwhat did we learn? we already feel like we know wep housing. but when we pull back the curtains, we then found out, where were you house people, not ifeen displaced. the only option we've had is everyone who has been hearing in the washington post, new york times and dashes long-term rentals. we pulled back the curtain and we found out what the real deal was in our state. on maui alone there was 31,000. i hundred 50,000 people live there. in our state we have 89,000 short-term rentals. of which of totals whole state, 89 thousand short-term rentals, 15,000 are legal. we have 74 thousand illegal

sanctioned, unlicensed short-term rentals. i have 50,000 u i'm 50,000 units short statewide to trying to be able to house everybody. i have these 89,000 short-term rentals because it is appealing to come in short-term rent in hawaii. i want to unpack this a little bit because we will have to work on this. this is one of our huge pieces of solution. why am mentioning it now. a short-term rental brings in 400% return as compared to regular rentals. if the house is rented out for a thousand bucks a month to one of our nurses, short-term rental owner will bring a 16,000. so how do you compete with that. since at 52% of all of hawaii short-term rentals are owned mainland guys. and, 20's -- 27% of our short-term rentals are■m 20% or more. that's where we are.

if i could tomorrow put 40000 and 50,000 of these units back with some tax break, i would not have a housing crisis. in malley, we tried everything. amazingly the council passed a bill to give■■, people 18 montho two years of complete property tax amnesty. no property tax if they would convert to lap long-term rental. it killed people. only 15% of people take that up as an opportunity, vote. the fair market value up what they earned a short-term rental, so it's that difficult to convert that without maybe bringing down some pretty terrible -- we describedclear h. we don't want to disrupt people's business lines, but we are now out of balance. we have a fundamental imbalance. that's what i wasin■ig is all if you are sharing your story. i think there is a fundamental

imbalance in america and we will have to bring itk whether it sm rentals or affordable loans, or projects that we actually use some of our public dollars four. one is -- our bankers have told us if we set aside about 5% the valuea large project -- like yoo billion-dollar project -- if we can guarantee 5% in the special fund in our statem coffers, they can begin to loan way below to people. because no one will go awol on a 3% loan when regular rates are 7%. that's another thing that emerges as an idea. i wanted to share that scenario with you and then talk briefly about homelessness for us. e high homeless rate, we are poised -- hopefully asking a couple of years whether we did oro drop homelessness by over half over

four years, even after having a high number. the way we are doing it is we e have, including health care resources, to build small villages and let people go in. the village's on average cost as opposed to 400 500,000 to build a regular home. we are taking very high utilizing suffering individuals and giving them sometimes a tiny rent or no rent, a space to going get better and their costs are dropping out over 70% per person. this will free up medicaid dollars and it gives us the capacity to invest in theseg other excellent ideas. hhs just let eight of our states begin to do that. it's a lot to share, but i just wanted to say, i think there are some other imbalances in society that we will have to address if we have any hope of not having the same problem two or three years out.

>> has anybodyedshort-term rent? is anybody doing anything in that space? >> new york trip to bold action and they passed a bill where you have to be on-site to have a short-term rental. it's pretty aggressive but it did drop, i understand, from what i received, in update by over 80%. the market. i can't say whether it's good or bad. we are about to do some similar things to return housing back to the market. >> we certainly don't have the answer in colorado, i want governor murphy to get ready. he's our resident banker. to hear your thoughts on financing and the governor's idea, that when i mentioned. what sho it's hard to talk about and ignore the fact that you

borrowed to build. and what are your insights on the on short-term rentals and whever else you wa to address? >> on short-term rentals, whatever you think is the right answer, new york city is 1.4%. still have a huge supply problem. there's many other tools. i know the mayor's trying to do that. the governor made a push on that as well. the only other point our make is talking about financing tools. the governor mentioned that e of the thinking system issues, regulators have asked for more equity to be used to finance multifamily housing and that could come in high=' well -- as well. if you replace that equity with public dollars, with the finance agency, you can cut the cost by 6% to 10% to build a multifamily unit in finance affordability7j maryland has done this recently.

zach marx, who's an interesting person, has worked on on the podcast, if anyone listens. the other piece is it makes it even more expensive. it makes the ability to get essential because the ways are more costly. there were always costly but they are more costly now. >> can i want to clarify something really quickly. i don't know if other states do this but in oregon we changed our constitution to use our public oblation bonding capacity of the state to fund housing, which is why it's so important. i don't know w that, but we has for almost a decade. >> i'm not sure i've got magic wand, a couple of observations. i would like the legislative caliber in new jersey. so, that's the most important

follow-up that i've gotten. mark twain said, no m's life, liberty or wallet while congress is in session. safe while congress is in session because they aren't doing much. quick spoken as a former member. and i was going to say, we've gotten a little bit better because gray has 90 days every two years, we have 80 days every two years but try to get it changed every two years every 80 days. that is for the ages. i will come back to you iwe are. we probably have one of the most expensiv-- price is 550,000 but it's up to her medically, especially post and attic where we had migration from and phila, especially up north, we have a

chronic shortage of affordable housing, we have a very case, ws basically redlining against black and brown potential homebuyers that has had a huimp0 years plus in new jersey. there is a bill that's being debated and pending in the legislator, which may well, at long last solved that riddle right now it's in the courts towntually get solved this year, which would be a pretty historic step in the right direction, i won de have a huge shortage -- i'm not, the advocates probably pursued to a bigger number, but is still a big number no matter where it lands. spencer's idea, i love it. and my guess is, it's going to

work, you've given us food for thought, and i've been trying to build a public bank in new jersey since the day i've got in office in north dakota is the only stay in the nation that has it. it struck me that spencer's approaches a little bit of a version of that. i know student loans is a big piece of what your public bank does, but i wonder if there's something here that we could learn fromnd of a variation of t you've done in north dakota, as i understand. >> and happy also to talk to spencer about that idea because of our legacy funds, which is built with a mini sovereign wealth fund. not as big as alaska's, but we are building it. in that when we passed legislation a few years ago where we took 20% of it, which is 1.6 billion in growing and that 20%, 10% was designated towards going towards bond and in-state investment.

another 10% of equity is a little aggressive on the equity side. we made some modifications that we have two tools on the state thing, which was over 100 years old. student loan portfolio was a $10 million bank in 10% of the portfolio student loans and the other piece goes development acs and supporting our local community banks. we don't meet with our local community banks. we probably have the most local community banks in the country because we have been able to stop the largest nationals from coming in, buying up all tsmalle branches. we've been able to maintain local family ownership and that's by we have such a healthy, well-capitalized local banking system. that's my one concern with your plan, spencer, whether or not the local community banks will see you as crowding them out. >> the local community banks will be participating in this, that's important.

they like it because it increases their threshold to be able to lend with the security of the state packing it. so that's one of the magic ones in the north dakota bank, so there's harmony. the other, is a simple one. i will be stunned if years from now interest rates aren't lower. i don't know how much lower but i would be surprised tha■tt they are not lower. god willing, that's a journey that will continue and that a chunk of this problem will get either solved or lick. hello, governors. >> say herded to a limited extent, but i know marilyn has an inclusionary zoning requirement in montgomery. i'm wondering if any of the other governors, the other states of inclusionary zoning, a

high income community with it being a requirement of the portion of the development that include affordable units. just wondering if anybody has. >> colorado as an example where we allow municipal counties to require up to 20% homes are e ■affordable at their discretion. they could be 0%, 10% but up to 20%. >> thank you so much. first, i want to say thankou ofg my calls when i called asking about this exact issue because this has been a core priority for us we have been doing a lot of great work coming together. so, thank you. in our state, you do have a lot of local zoning that includes inclusionary housing. it's not something that takes place on a statewide level. how you look at these things from a statewide level, it does become complicated.

we actually have what is now -- we introduce the most aggressive and thorough housing package in our legislative session in front of our legislative right now. it's looking at how can we do a lot of this movement through incentives and not mandates. that has been a key theme. beine jurisdictions to be bought in. also the challenges that we are county, how to utilize inclusionary housing will be different from baltimore , they are 18,000 vacant homes if you include brown zones its 40,000. the way they are looking at it is very different and it's on the eastern shore words about how do you protect farmlands a'e you can build that you should be able to build. we have really had to take a targeted and regional approach to it. then there's three thingsone ist increasing the inventory and we spoke about some of those

things. we utilize a lot of ideas of apprenticeships and how to get more people involved in the work. the second piece is, it's th, that includes legislation that we have on board now, which is giving -- turning renters into homebuyers. maryland is the lowest eviction filing fee in the country. in the period it's producing value. governor murphy, you just spoke on it, we are proud of the fact that maryland the birthplace of thurgood marshall. it's the birthplace of babe ruth. it's also the birthplace of red biting. it's where red lin of using disy lines to determine where people can live and what the values of their homes should be. roach to tracking the issue of unfair appraisal values in redline neighborhoods

becausegreatest drivers of wealt that we have seen in our history. so make historic investments in being able to train appraisers. being able to come up with fair values for people in private homes and neighborhoods and making sure we can adjust the hoing issue onheisis without dog that focuses on or screams either displacement or to -- or gentrification or wealth theft. some of these have been delivered on, but i think a key lesson learned, going backt it, versus how western maryland will look at it is, you have to be very deliberate and very regional in the wayhe focused, f progress that we are looking for. >> fantastic discussion, want to add one general point. i know greg is doing this in montana, but when i hear about

us trying with zoning, in america, we invented zoning. zoning came through the industrial revolution when there is air pollution and other things. we have to keep them separate. and then we went even further and said, here's the kind of homes that can be in retail there. it was a one dimensional map. you dried out and see all these things have to be separate. that was great for people that built■#companies, then we builts all over america that are designed for automobiles and no, anybody that has been a mayor, the cost of running a city is the leniant -- linear feet of sewer, sidewalk, roads. when you get more of that, you need to have more fire stations. you have school districts that deci to build greenfield elementary schools on the edge. that's great for the developers. you drive all this money in your cost. it's the cost of infrastructureo

we pay for sewer and water. we are making developers rich workforce that we are trying to solve. one of the things that is changing his farm-based code. if you areuithese neighborhoods instead of saying you can do up to 20% in low income, if you have a neighborhood that's all houses, if you want to coffee shop that looks like a house, you should have a coffee shop. it has to have three cars, three car garage, what is a have to have three cars? the mom, dad and kid all have a car to drive to school, church, you cannot walk to anything. then people will go on a vacation and say, that was the most amazing vacation i ever had. why, because we can walk and evg was great there. you could have that in your old state, you just have to design it. we have to make sure having

at the state level to subsidize bad design, which then down the road 10, 20, 30 years from now when people say, got new forms of transportation because of new designs of electric bikes, which become four seasons and do whatever, we've spent all of our daughters spending roads and there's places in northern europe that have snow where people bike all winter long. you cannot find a place like that in the u.s. because we don't put the investment into building the infrastructure for multimodal transportio one of the things we have to look at in this country are, our housing parts are high in part because of the way we design our cities. this a really interesting things that are here. other stuff, but part of it is we have to get the coffee shop, barbershop, law firms back into residential neighborhoods in ways that could

help lower the costs we don't need a car for everything. >> very powerful vision, governor. click stanley from rhode island. thank you, spencer for pointing out that homeownership means to be part of this formula. in rhode island we put 25% towards housing. my second budget there was 250 million. we are approaching $500 million for rental low to moderate income. it's a sizable number. $100 million this year, we are really looking at homeownership in that workforce are that career path housing. we like to compare notes. i've announced we're going to do it but i don't know how. i've got about 60 days to actually figure out how we make the presentation. but, i would love to get with

you on that. i was a former mayor as well. we put housing in 20 years ago. my mom lives in a house that we built about 15, 18 years ago. that in a way that i think is really important. i think it was mentioned by the panel up there. also, the issue- i asked craig, you said you moved your available apartments from 1% to us how many units that is, and last year on homeownership i put 30 million into downpayments for homeownership. that about 1600 new homeowners in the state of rhode island as a result of that new year. there's a waiting list on that w many units did you need to build against the how many you had to move it from 1%? quakes that data come from --

came from a study that wasby thf mazzulla, which is -- we'll have a big. as our former u.s. senator used to say, there's a lot of dirt between the light bulbs. you go outside just to give your perspective. you can go in your car outside this building and drive to chicago, you are still in montana. that's how big it is. so, mazzulla is a community of 50,000 people, if you google mazzulla apartment vacancy rate. the story was about 60 days ago that reported that. that was also the report that showed that the re that's one community that had impact from all the things that we did.

community has a hundred thousand people, billings is number one, mazzulla is one of our university counts. kwuex that's very impressive, uf from 1% to 6% and lower the rentals by 20%. we will follow-up on that number. one of the concerns i have is actually overloading the market. we have seen that in our state where we drive places down sofaa lot of the equity they built up over time. there has to be a sweet spot --e seen a leveling off of home values, we have seen rental rates come down, we haven't st. quakes we are running short on time. we will go to governor tina kotek for final governor and then tacked to charlie. the question i have to post a will be, what have we not said that we should be talking about? what else should be said that÷y?

>> i really enjoyed this conversation, a couple of things , more philosophical, a thing. the mandates and incentives, our inclusionary zoning for wha■t wo me coming into the legislator, this was many years ago, we outlined inclusionary. so when we to put it back as an option for communities, we got so much pushback that we had to write into criteria and it made a very rigid. it was voluntary but too rigid. i think we all have to be careful. one othe ascome to the housing , people would make it voluntary. i went with cities that have to be dlexes where they would normally just do single-family standalone's, 25000 and higher population you have to include the other types of housing.

they didn't want to see some candidates saying -- because he will have a significant equity issue right off the bat. they still have loca variation, but everybody should be trying to provide different options. i love the idea of starter homes. people can take advantage of them number one in our investment for housing which is the mortgages credit. own your home, you get a big tax break. but we should have smaller homes that qualify for that. duplexes as homeownership in places where you don't have a lot of land, we have to think differently. so many options, i hope you are successful. ownership really matters, it really does. but what that ownership looks like, i think we have to change. >> we are trying to do drilling

pyrite. put the next phase would be automatically subdivide and sell. on -- but also, what a great starter home a few subdivide. what haven't you heard that you would like to hear or like us to hear? >> i have heard a lot of great ideas and a lot of great leadership. one thing that has come up in terms of parking, that's an easy thing the miss, parking is expensive. minneapolis, they've got a bunch of apartments, rent came down in real terms, even though the city's rent continues to rise. a lot of that to the long bus rd transit rides and a lot of folks should take the bus. we still have parking spaces but they didn't have the minimum mber they requedpreviously by am that didn't make sense for those buildings. just the thing to consider. the only say, and this relates to the governor's

point, there is so much path dependency and what a built environment looks like, that people don't think about. it seems like people are choosing a certain option when they are not being provided traces that they would choose if they were there. i think you have to reconcile that with the fact that people don't like change in the abstract. but then, if you build them, the community with the coffee shop doesn't mean they won't walk toe coffee shop more and fell good about it like they would in that vacation community. i think people will think about the ■c fa■/úct that a lot f we are just living with because it has always been that way. when you make those changes and provide those options, istake th with reality that governor cox was describing with how that will play out over the loyou see over and over again when people make progress on this issue, they are rewarded for it, both by better community and by people who say, thank you.

greg thank you, charlie anderson for joining us. thank you tower arnold ventures. we appreciate your support forns important work. thank you to our fellow governors, this was a wonderful exchange of ideas on an iss thour number one or a few of yor number to issue, but a big issue for every single one of us. with that, i will turn it to our chair, governor cox. >> thank you, round of applause. ■ñemen, we are almost done. i have to ask one question because doug will make me do it. my favorite question asking a ow many of you, growing up, walked to school, the grocery store church? one of the three, raise your hands. look around the room out all those hands. how many of you walk to one of those places now? ok. a little more than i expected. but you see the numbers go down

drastically. i have to point out. there was an editorial in the washingtonst tha is titled governors take a walk on housing supply side with a beautiful our good friend wes moore looking very dapper, i must say. and it's basically a review of all of our state of the state addresses that mention housing. many of you are mentioned in there if you get a chance to check it out. the last thing i have to say is this. i hope we recognize how unique what just happened is in politics, in our country today. don't think anybody could -- being in the room right now, if we didn't know who they were, who was a republican and>> we 's a democrat the way he talked about that. doug for president.

>> doug, i guess i have to let you respond, those were the rules of the debate. >> i believe in economics. >> i like that as well. just the science, doug. listen, i just want to thank alo let you know how proud i am to be associated with you, the greatest leadership in the country and in the world is in this room right now. we admire you, we appreciate your service and your dedication, i know it's hard on your families. we have a beautiful event tonight scheduled at the white house, i hope you all get an opportunity to be there. it is a special occasion. we look forward to hosting you there. thank you, everyone. the former chief financial

officer of donald trump's company pleaded guilty in new york to perjury in connection to testimony with he gave in tex-p. he pleaded guilty to two counts of perjury and was sentenced to five months in testimony he gave at a july 2020 deposition in new york attorney general letitia james case. prosecutors accused him of lying under oath about allegations that mr. trump lied about his wealth on financial statements given to banks and insurance companies. the new york times writes the plea agreement comes weeks before the new -- former president willt made on mr. tr's behalf to an adult film star during the 2016 presidential campaign. an >> c-span's washington journal, a live forum involving you to discuss the latest issues

in government, politics and public policy. from washington, d.c. and across the country. coming up tuesday morning we will discuss the latest on campaign 2024 and tomorrow super tuesday primaries with tea party patriots co-founder jenny beth martin and the editor of national journal topline political newsletter. then, the congressional integrity staffer for the january 6 committee talks about her effort of gop investigation into president biden. c-span's washington journal, joining the conversation live at 7:00 eastern tuesday morning on c-span, c-span now our free mobile apponli o >> tuesday on c-span, the houses back at noon eastern for general speeches followed by legislative buness at 2:00 p.m., members are working on a series of homeland security and health care rated bills. on c-span two at nine :00 a.m.,

the national urban league is hosting a summit to discuss civil rights with florida's representave and other advocates. at 3:00 p.m., the senate retur to consider whether to aance an assistant sec find live coverage on the c-span now video app or online at c-span.org. >> the energy secretary talks about clean energy and jobs at an event hosted by the national urn league and washington, d.c. she discusses the biden administration's policies highlighting investments made from the inflation reduction act and other legislation and how jobs are being the clean energy sector. this is about 40 minutes.