>> please take your seats good

morning and welcome to hudson institute. thank you so much for being here in person. i would like to welcome those watching on livestream.org as well as those joining us across the country. the hudson institute welcomed its headquarters of indianapolis, indiana and the premonitions of the newly found baltic states. vice president inkwell said the ideals of freedom and self-government by the baltic peoples -- the american people and institutions like hudson. in the same spirit, is vice president dave quail and it is my pleasure to welcome three of the four ministers here. from estonia --

welcome to the hudson institute, gentlemen. question morning. they're still parting -- we will see if there still parting at the end. i will begin with you because one week ago today, you published an op-ed in the financial times under the rubric of how to help ukraine prevail. an excellent went paper that got a lot of attention in washington. entitled sending -- can you set out at eight point plan for how we can help ukraine achieve victory? there is a bit of fatigue among some who question whether or not ukraine is really on the path to

victory and whether or not they can actually achieve victory. maybe you can outline what you think it is important. quick take you for receiving as well. celebrate in the 20 years of data but today we celebrate one of the biggest deportations -- whether safety thousand people. and exactly the same thing is going on in ukraine right now. so we must understand that ukraine is not fighting for their own freedom. ukraine is fighting and service. not only for us but in service. i saw the defense ministry of estonia in 1617, 120,000 troops

ready to go. that is the case. ukraine will win the war. without this winning, any kind of so-called peace or wrapping up means we will have much bigger problems in the future. as long as you know the public rating about that, these capabilities will be and the difference is putin pushed the button of the war machine. i think we will see full-scale

organization. it is not a full special operation, it is a full skill war. we must give ukraine with ask because we don't have to fight right now. weapons, ammunition, we must be sure that the further perspective for ukraine because neutrality closed the russian borders. we saw it in georgia, we saw it in ukraine. the swedish people understood that. this is what we have. we have to do practical things. we have decided 50 billion european fund. about 5 billion this year.

we have signing in estonia, long-term commitments of 0.55% gdp for one year of military support. $61 billion for the ukraine package which is not adopted right now from the u.s. side. it's actually one day gdp worth. altogether, it is 120 billion military support in one year. also, one topic we are discussing is who must pay. it is harder and asked -- and harder to explain to taxpayers of why were using taxpayers money instead of putin's money. how can we use the frozen assets of russia during the war?

in estonia, we are adopted in our parliament, how can we do it legally? we have many aspects but the most important piece is ukraine must win. we must support ukraine. it is doable. we have no other options. the only other options are worse. it pays. i am not talking about -- i'm talking about is a democratic world. china is watching very carefully what is the end of this war. everyone is watching. so, i think the u.s. must wake up as well. show the leadership more because europe is doing more right now. >> as you wrote in the financial times, we must find a way to use russia's frozen or blocked assets. that is where the first reports

the white house was pushing the g7 in looking at ways to repurpose and russian frozen assets. there was some progress made on this issue. as you come to washington from europe, we at hudson have worked with senator risch on the repo act. this issue is moving. where does it stand in europe writ large? >> there's a great need for leadership in the g7 and i think the u.s. will have it. i hope there are more practical steps adopting the positions. in europe, you are right, we have made the political decision. we will use the profits of the frozen assets. we can use it not only to support ukraine, but i do hope we can use it as well for military purposes.

46 billion euros per year. this political decision has been made last week in the european council. we are making some progress but we are pushing heavily as well. not only the russian public assets but the oligarchs. russia is so much afraid about that. everyone we are talking about that, every time we are moving forward, it is a painful reaction from russia because we must send a message this will not continue off of whatever they are hoping to get. these are the progresses but the u.s. has a great leader role here in front of the g7. europe is moving. >> the view when it comes to the war in ukraine.

very specific question. i will let you take it where you like. >> i would like to follow on what my friend margus is saying about the need for ukraine to win. maybe somebody sitting here in washington will say come of course, the baltic ministers think it is very important because they live next to russia. why should the u.s. care? it is far away. it's maybe our problem but why is it your problem? if you think about it, the u.s. has had one heck of a winning streak. up until the end of the second world war, the u.s. created a system called a rules-based system. you can say it is headquartered in new york at the united nations. it has this, shall we say, challenges but it is the best thing that has happened to the

world probably if you look back in history forever. germany's success as a rich and thriving democracy is thanks to the u.s. marshall plan after the war. japan's success as a rich and thriving democracy is thanks to u.s. efforts. south korea. the baltic states' independence, or regaining her independence after 50 years of occupation, is a part of the success because the u.s. has stood rocksolid behind rules-based systems. that rules-based system has had a very positive effect on u.s. well-being, the economy. the u.s. has thrived. it is not just giving, it is getting a lot of taking. the u.s. exports going in the industry and the jobs. that is the world that was created. now, that world, which the u.s. essentially created at the end

of the second world war is under challenge, a severe challenge. so, when you have china rattling its sabers, you see was happening in the philippines, the taiwan strait. china is rattling its sabers. russia is not. russia is fighting a full out war in europe as we sit here in beautiful, sunny washington, d.c. it is two years since they've been doing this. they are on a war economy. they are spending 40% of their budget on defense and internal security. they are not putting it into hospitals, roads, education, welfare. they are putting it into the military they are putting into the what military shane. -- machine. we in nato are not up to speed yet, and we have to realize, that china is rattling sabers

and russia is fighting a war to turn the system that the u.s. created on its head. not the rule of law but the rule of brute force. bringing us back into the dark ages. a time that no one would like to revisit. the ukrainians are experiencing that as we speak. we go full out and we invest in our own defense. we will hit 3% this year and we will be going beyond that in the future. we have reinstated constrict -- conscription's. the rocket systems to boost our own firepower. nato is growing as well.

and the u.s. presence is well felt and well received. we need to focus our minds on what the goal is. ukraine has to win and russia has to lose. it is a necessity because the other corollary is that ukraine loses and russia wins. everyone around the world is watching. they probably smoke fat cigars and have the windows open. russia is challenging what will the u.s. and nato openly do? try to cut a deal? that will be great for the

autocrats but for democracy and the way of life we all enjoy, from the baltics to europe and the u.s. this is under direct threat. you can think this is a research problem but this is a global problem in a direct threat to authority around the world. >> europe is a tier one region of the world. support for the european order given the mass amounts of direct investment actually and riches american so we can focus on newer domestic spending priorities. >> when i say we are buying these weapons system it means they are taking money and giving it to someone else. you don't have to look much further than the shores of the u.s..

which goes directly into the u.s. economy. >> now it is difficult to find a different angle. we share the position. what can happen next. one are being restored in europe. all of us having a nice vacation saying that these couple of years were very difficult. when you see us struggling to support the ukraine or even struggling to define a strategy as to what winning is and how to get there, you have to say is

there anybody thinking about plan b. then the numbers come in place. russia started this war with 200,000 troops in the army. currently they have about 1.2 million regular army and of those about half a million are in the ukraine. there is almost twice as much military in the ukraine than they had years ago. now the defense ministers a couple of days ago before the terror attack in moscow announced that they would expand the regular army even further. that would bring them to 1.7 million regular armies.

these are the numbers we have not seen since the end of the cold war. we are talking stalingrad numbers. they tell the story that russia is not planning to stop. if it does not stop, what happened next? the country is in danger. we need to pull all of the resources that we can to stop it. if we aren't able, other countries might start looking appealing to putin. moldova which had the russian-controlled part of its territory.

if you break through, they are feeling chill. the question is could nato be challenged? they say this cannot happen we are that much more powerful. we are. we are more technologically advanced, better prepared, and all of these things but russia is fighting a national war, building up its army and expecting us to be politically unprepared. before the second world war, britain was spending 4% of gdp on defense. during the war they had spending of 40% of gdp.

it gives you an idea of why it is cheaper and more efficient to win in the ukraine rather than a couple of years later spend 10 times the amount that we would've spent this year to win in ukraine so we would be defending and winning in nato. >> it is also forgotten about how any romanian passport holders there are. immediately you see tripwires on the near horizon if there is a blow through. >> now it is safer and more secure because of ukrainians being able to attack and limit the activity in the black sea. we are not doing that much right

now. i think that some of our allies on the black sea, allies from nato -- they do feel worried. if the ukraine is unable to hold , pushing back on russians in the black sea is not successful, then what is next for them? >> march 29 will march 20 years since dan quayle spoke. firm allies of the united states. the washington summit this summer. , one of the direct effects of russia is a repurposed stronger

and larger nato. we were 30 countries before the war and we are now at 32. sweden had 200 years of neutrality. they have no gladly joined nato. three years ago. all three of us know our scandinavian colleagues well. the polls show 16% support for nato in sweden and finland. and now the support is not unanimous, but it is well over 80%. they realize that what russia has done is erase the idea of a neutral zone.

it is europe and nato or russia. there is nothing in between. we have the privilege to enjoy nato. this is underpinned all of our economies growing if we look at happiness indexes. in spite of the war and everything, people in our countries are quite content. because they feel safe. we realize the danger that russia poses very well but what we need to do with nato now is spend time celebrating and 12 years is 20 years, but nato needs to think what it's plan is because with the war in the ukraine, let's fast-forward.

the problem with russia does not go away. russia will still be an aggressive and dangerous country. putin arranged his selection. he will be in power. don't expect change. the 20 years has been great. what about the next 20 years? it won't change and russia won't change. so that policy must be that we have to continue to invest in our collective defense. there is one line was that putin and leaders like him understand and that is the leg which are strength. bullies always pick on someone that they perceive as being

weak. russia thought that the ukraine was weak and two years later they are doing quite terribly. the ukraine has regained half of the territory that they lost. the grain exports from the ukraine out of odessa are ongoing because russia no longer controls the western portion of the black sea. they had to go to crimea. nato needs to focus on how to contain him for the next 30 years with strength and nato's strength has been to maintain peace and that peace has been maintained because of the very real understanding that if you touch any part of nato, hell

rakes loose on you. so the kremlin would never make the mistake of assuming the political will is not there -- we are quite strong right now. we want to make sure we give that clear signal to moscow. we believe in our power and conventional deterrence, but you were leading the government as prime minister when there was a belarusian hybrid attack on lot via and the region at large. we would be happy to host you any time soon but given that the native center of excellence in helsinki is nearby and hybrid

russian warfare is a strategy, can you talk for a minute about hybrid warfare, your experiences and how we are dealing with that? >> we are dealing with all of it on a daily basis. selling lies and discord within society. 10 years ago you could see it easily. bad english, week argumentation. they get involved in all of the politics by finding an issue that is divisive and trying to explode both sides of the argument. saying abortion. a very contentious issue and if you look for certain information

and arguments are coming i'm certain that you will see them fanning both sides of the argument. on a practical level, for more than 2.5 years we have been experiencing continual pressure from both on the belarusian government, organizing flights and arrivals of third country nationals into belarus and we have footage showing clearly that the belarusian border patrol is helping to illegally enter the european union. we know the groupings move up and down. finland has started to experience this. belarus is effectively 100% controlled by russia. they did not lose the root --

the war, they simply succumbed to russian pressure. russia controls the military and we see this on a daily basis. our collective cyber defenses are one head of the russians but they are getting better and better and we are investing more and more. they are looking at critical infrastructure, if you can put down a website of any government access website -- you don't have to physically go. you just take something down and cause a headache. they're telling us lies in one of them is that they are winning in the ukraine. they are getting slaughtered in the ukraine. they are trained to tell us that

they are winning and it is in evitable but it is not. this is the insidious this of their argumentation. we have to realize that is what they are doing. when i was younger i was in track and field. the key of being a good high jumper was not only to clear the barber to try to take away the belief in your competition that they can clear the bar. that is all you need. you need to take away his conviction and that is what putin is doing, trying to take away our conviction. nato is 25 times the potential economy as russia. there is no contention. if we believe they can, then

they can do it. >> he is looking very good. >> if he ever comes over and asks if i am pale, i will know where he is coming from. we have some harsh competition. tell me the question. >> your experiences after the nato accession and the changes since then. >> i think one of the things that we do share is why do we support the ukraine so much? it is not just because we have a heart for the ukrainians, we remember the struggle, but in 30 years, we witness a tremendous

transformation of our country. where we started and where we are currently is a sea of change. that is why we feel so strongly about it. i joke about it, but we all have two independents days. february and march. both independence days are from russia. i don't want a third one. we're fine. we have our history. it's ok with just two. we have rebuilt so much and transformed so much that it would be a historical mistake to even think that it could be lost again.

we had support from our allies. and in the united states. the article five we had was why they believed in our countries and invest in and provide jobs. this combination and security provided throughout the decades come to where we are. coming to the nato summit, we have to look how great they have been. it is not a victory. it has been great but we have to talk about the next 75 years.

what threat do we have, how do we tackle them? how do we make sure russia is actually deterred? how do we incorporate the ukraine into the architecture of europe? without ukraine, it will not hold and we will not be secure or safe. it is in our interest to talk about these things, looking into the future. pat yourself on the back, we did great, but the main thing we need is looking to the future. >> hudson has been in close contact with nato. one point of emphasis is so that we have a strategic conflict from madrid. this needs to be implementation and moving forward. >> i just think a couple of quotes. without membership of nato 20 years ago, and 10 years ago, we

joined the european union. this is true. in that case, we would have been in the grey zone, the green light for putin. it's a practical thing. i will not repeat how much we have been burned because of that. we still remember what it feels with no freedom. we all have stories. about 1/5 of the population were killed or deported. our kids remember that. secondly, we understand that nato is and will be the only working security guarantee in our region. we must understand as well that this victorious war from the ukrainian side, there must be

clear borders. as ukraine, who places in nato, because we want to support them, we are getting a lot from the ukraine. we'll become the full member of nato. the biggest military power in the war which is why we created this as a defense organization. no nato member has been at war with russia. this is a big change in mentality. that's why we're understanding that nato has a big role to keep the peace in our region. i'm not going to repeat all of the figures. you must understand that our mentality as well, we're all sure that article v will work,

nato is strong -- it will work especially if the ukraine will win the war. if it happens in the baltics. estonia has 200 kilometers depth. this victorious war will be -- firstly it will happen there. we put 3.2% of gdp to our defense. we are ready to shoot.

but we are defending all of the world. all these different levels of cyber attacks. what we may during the last two months. the 10 persons who attacked the assets -- the -- we stopped as well. these attacks were directly coordinated by the secret services of russia. this is happening. i'm not talking about the biggest cyberattack, within a

couple of hours we had 3 billion requests -- which we are holding with most of our public services . we managed it. russia is already operating in our territories. this is our life. -- not in estonia not in poland. estonia was hit by the first major denial of service attack -- it is held russia's hybrid work -- warfare.

usually i would start with this that i had to give credit to the ukraine. can you tell us about what brought you to washington and how you anticipate the meeting going? >> if he watches the overview he knows half of the things we are planning to tell him. i can tell you that there is a lot of anxiety in europe, what direction the u.s. is taking. not just talking about the upcoming election but in general . the belief that we share is that there is no substitute for u.s. leadership, especially when it comes to the transatlantic relations.

security is in jeopardy. without united states leadership , i think we might not have a happy ending. we have to do what it takes. and to secure the transatlantic area. it's one of the messages we are bringing with us. everybody from the baltics and poland mentioning numbers, mentioning taxes, the amount of equipment being procured. i met -- what we were buying

blackhawk helicopters. i met the people who assembled the helicopters themselves. i wanted to check how the helicopter is working. this is telling us, don't threat when it comes to article five we will do our part. we just want to make sure the u.s. is in a leadership role when it comes to the important things in the transatlantic area. you mentioned it -- when a russian official in airspace for 39 seconds we've seen russian drones approach the day new and even cross into romanian territory. you have a process ongoing -- to come help with any -- lift --

lithuania establish that foreign presence. it is to be carpet going -- to build all the accompanying schools and infrastructure and all of the rest to what amounts to 4800 or 5000 troops. >> i am a proponent of not drawing redlines for ourselves. if we say specifically that we are not going to do abc and make a list of the things we are not going to do it sounds like an invitation for putin to try. i think we are on the path to changing that. we have to tell putin we are going to take it down. once is a mistake and twice we think you're doing it on purpose.

it sends a message. it is an important message to the people -- most likely it was meant to go there. now it comes to a german brigade. it is a historic step for germany and nato. we haven't seen that being moved on a permanent basis within nato territories. the last time was when the u.s., british and french contingent securing german territory. that happened and that was over and we are seeing that again. we are getting back to a mentality that is based on deterrent, and actual presence of a forced posture that we are

here to defend every inch of nato territory despite the fact that it is if occult to defend. estonia, latvia and within -- and with the when you are tiny countries and it is not easy to defend. so you need troops to defend that tiny island. it is the same mentality that we are seeing. it is a heavy lift indeed. it is more than 1% of our gdp just to be able to accept the german brigade. we think it is vital. it is important for germany. in the ukraine we see you have this corridor -- it implies some

and he willingness to cross it my but if it is blocked by a russian invasion, it means -- we have -- if it were to cut out the only land routes across the line, we would be look at out two from a crucial supply route. there is this understanding that we need to pay attention to this sensitive territory -- so it is secure and it is safe so that it can be used to supply all three countries. the limited depth of your

country, just mentioned similar numbers. this is all made a bit easier -- the same topical and new word -- newsworthy has an issue with finland recently, russian crude ships apparently cutting the cable. can you give us an update on where all of the security sits when it comes to underwater that you all have floating next to other countries in the region? >> think we are more protected militarily than ever before. i totally agree that putin has

-- the largest for nato ever. so now we have groups from finland in nato. and now we can say the baltic sea is nato late and it has been changing a lot. we've been talking about the solid nato regional defense plans. it is full of capabilities. we are doing a great job.

i can say at all that the other side of the border right now, the figures are low on russian troops. these troops they have sent to the ukraine. they are not existing anymore. that is the reason why we gave a lot of military support since the first day of military aggression into the ukraine. the ukraine is using this ammunition and weapons. having a plan to restore military capabilities to the other side of the border. we always think that what we will do, he said more than 10

years ago what he would do in public. he's just restoring the imperial. it makes it easier to prepare. if we invest heavily in nato capabilities and we support the ukraine -- the deterrent will work in the future as well. that is the case why we are focused on the ukraine. this is a very serious thing. but china just crashed our communication cables between estonia and sweden and finland,

but also the strategic gas pipeline which is connecting finland to the baltics and europe. now we are cooperating with china and investigating whether it was -- finally to protect the 100% we have the solid reaction from nato and the solid reaction from finland. executing the situation because

we didn't know exactly what would happen in the beginning. in our region they are strategical. so finland getting the gas from finland -- it was a lot of things happening in our region and is part of our lives. >> isil at the outset that it does create ac or a lake in a way. we have to watch anything how russia moves above water. it is a big body of water. i wonder if striking an anchor would work. anything with secretary blinken

beyond the ukraine style that our audience should know about? >> i am listening to my colleagues. our teams prepare speaking notes and it seems that they prepared -- it is so much alike. >> you should cut your embassy staff into thirds. came of the security of northern europe and the security of europe as a whole has worldwide ramifications. russia is not a problem only for north europe. the war in the middle east. who are the players causing

problems. you're starting to see a working relationship among three countries. north korea is providing weapons and munitions to russia so they can krill -- can kill ukrainian positions. russia -- they are providing drones to russia so they can destroy ukrainian infrastructure. iran is now selling -- we already about the gaza drone, it is a perverse way to go around trying to make military sales. these countries are already working together. and china we don't see them grow up -- providing weapons to russia but the technology that goes into the war machine is moving with the aid of china. when putin made these

non-democratic elections, we carefully followed who is saying what. the congratulatory salutations came from the leader of china. so this growing friendship -- this relationship and relations are happening which is posing a threat and a challenge to all of us. we have to be up to the challenge and understand that 75 years deterrent works in this is what we need to focus on. to make sure after the war in the ukraine we maintain that.

they are already getting together and working with one another. what it does between peace and chaos is determination. we have the ability and just need to make sure that our political minds are focused on the task at hand. we are absolutely up to it. >> the ministers deserve a round of applause. thank you so much for coming.