♪ host: this is the washington journal for april 9 millions gathered to experience the solar clips and others gathering and public places.

for the first half-hour we will talk about your experience with watching the eclipse and what you gain from it. (202) 748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8001 for the mountain and pacific time zones if you traveled for the eclipse (202) 748-8002, you can always text us at (202) 748-8003 on facebook at facebook.com/cspan and on x cspanwj. we have pictures from all around the states this is from cleveland where the total totality, this is the public square.

people were watching through glasses in those public places in the indianapolis star shot a picture of people experiencing the eclipse from the motors eat way and if you go to the dallas news 150 travelers taking the plane out of dialysis love field saw these solar clips from the skies. you can add yours to the mix if you traveled or sought a home or want to tell us about that (202) 748-8000 for eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific and if you traveled to view the eclipse (202) 748-8002, you can post on facebook at facebook.com/cspan

and x t cspanwj. some people watched it on nasa and nasa tv giving that total eclipse perspective. here is what happened yesterday. [video clip] >> we are getting so close. look at this. we are about 10 seconds away, wow. it is going into totality. there you have, the diamond ring came through. you can see the light trickling through the surface of the moon. >> what are we viewing on the

left-hand side? >> these pink fingers will start to pop out. >> they appear pink because of the helium ridge but let's focus on the corona you can see these streams that we don't have the ability to see him a day-to-day basis. host: that was from nasa tv you could watch more of that coverage on the c-span network and on our website at c-span.org. your experience eric in colonial heights, virginia. how did you experience it? caller: i was visiting salem, virginia. the eclipse was beautiful and it

made this guide turn darker. i was born in salem and i ended up visiting and i am looking forward to the next one in 33 and hopefully it will inspire the candidates to keep it clean. host: before you go were you planning to go there before the eclipse or was it other events? caller: other events took me and i got to see the hospital where i was born and i got to see the eclipse. host: some of the supposed in on our facebook this is about the event yesterday never thought how the shadow would look from spaces is how she described it. yvonne molina said this is one

of the coolest thing i have ever seen. i had heard about seeing the awe of the corona it was cloudy except for the moments of totality and then we got to see it all. you can post pictures on facebook and on x. you can comment on the phone lines (202) 748-8000 central and eastern time zones, (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific and those who traveled (202) 748-8002. you probably saw yesterday nasa

had experiments during the eclipse. there were five research projects as part of that. the observations will help researchers understand the myriad of ways the sun supports life on earth. part of it was chasing the eclipse and high altitude planes. they studied dust and orbits that make or break the earth and instruments from the university of hawaii to study these sons corona and those mass equations and an experiment by the university of scranton inviting him radio operators to send signals before during and after

the eclipse and record the signals. if you want to see that on a xios.com. the wall street journal highlights those states that depend on solar energy and how they may be impacted. the power providers bracing for the eclipse they were braced for bundy's eclipse and ready to replace lost solar powers saying three states were expected to see significant hits to solar generation. they were set to lose the most solar generating energy in california.

the sun was partially blocked in florida at a time of day when solar makes 20% of its power supply in the eclipse block sunlight for a few minutes for 6.5 gigawatts of generation and partially obscured sunlight. during peak generating hours. some of the impacts of these solar clips and you can give your own personal impacts of what you learn from it. lisa, from illinois. caller: thank you for c-span. we went yesterday intro two hours south to sparta, illinois south of springfield, illinois. the conditions were perfect, so

awe-inspiring. host: was the experience different from 2016? caller: i struck out on my own. i drove all out on my own there are a thousand acres with the lake and this time with the very dear friend. just very concerned if the weather was going to cooperate but i am so glad and when -- that i went. host: that was lisette in illinois and we have ray texting us saying i cou not see it but i'm loing to travel into years for the next total eclipse.

i think 2044 or 2045 or less are going to alaska. some members ocongress giving their thoughts on yesterday's event saying the u.s. will lose 30 kilowatts but oil producers will keep the lights on in america. john in may and who traveled for the event. caller: good morning pedro it was the most beautiful thing. you have to repent. host: this is the shot you could have seen if you were watching our network. this is the solar eclipse perspective.

if you are looking there, this is from the international space station and that perspective there and a lot of these are still available on c-span on c-span now and c-span.org. representative rick larsen was one of those people who went to wallace island to watch several of those rockets being launched as part of the experiment. the three sounding rockets during the solar eclipse they study have the earth's upbeat atmosphere is affected when sunlight dims over a portion of the planet. many members of congress if you oked outside of capitol hill

watching the event. i had to check out the eclipse. looked like a fred myers rotisserie chicken. if you want to post on x cspanwj and facebook facebook.com/cspan. some of the economic factors saying according to their website the solar eclipse could be worth more than one billion to the u.s. economy saying it is clear where the moon's path will trace a full blockage will generate a lot of economic activity. visitors are trying to use the phenomenon to job sales. the pearman group says it could

be several billion dollars between tourist spending and other consumption totaling as much as 6 billion. while the eclipse is a one-day event many areas hope the influx of visitors will lead to lasting benefits and areas that rarely get international media coverage are likely to be enhancing future travelers. if you want to see the impact economically and some of those pi from members of congress this is senator m warner a democrat saying this is the a clips. final meaning of spectrums watching the eclipse

happen senate majority leader talked about it on the sen floor and if you wanted to see if there saying he e privilege of watching the eclipse from his office at the u.s. capitol in these work glasses given to me by the president of fordham university. these are members of congress giving their perspective and you can give yourselves well (202) 748-8000 for democrats, for republicans (202) 748-8001, for independents (202) 748-8002 and if you want to text (202) 748-8003. you can go to the online aspects of facebook and x, if you want

to give your thoughts there too. tell us about your eclipse experience. caller: mi on the air now? host: yes. caller: you will have to forgive me it has been less than 30 days since my last call but i traveled from west virginia to marion, illinois which was in the path of totality and this is my second total eclipse because in 2017 i went to sweetwater, tennessee. both times, the weather was perfect and had a perfect view of the eclipse. i knew what to expect but what was really interesting, was being around a bunch of people most of whom had never seen a

total eclipse of the sun and hearing their reactions was worth the seven hour trip itself. it was wonderful and i was listening to washington journal and there was one curmudgeon who called in and said i don't understand the big deal. i'm going to be in my office making money and pulling myself up by bootstraps and i thought if he could've been there and seen it. it's not just some anonymous lack disk. you can tell it is the moon because the earth shined his illuminating the dark side of the moon so you can see the cratering and that is an awesome experience. host: why did you choose the place you traveled to? caller: i knew was coming up

and i reserve my room a year ago because i knew this was going to happen and i am kind of an astronomy geek. i knew there was going to be one in 2024 and even when i reserved my room a year in advance i was charged twice as much as i would normally pay because there was a big run on hotel rooms but i knew where the path of totality was going to be so i looked on the map and found a town in marion, illinois and it was a nice drive and i would not have given it up for the world. host: we had a few work on x -- viewer on x saying it's not as

special as people are making it out to be. let's hear from trina in indianapolis. caller: i traveled, no, i didn't travel. i spent my day at his senior citizens village where my mother lived. a lot of them won't be able to see the next eclipse and to see their faces at the time of totality was just amazing. they all had a spiritual time and it was so quiet. it was more quiet than joyful at the time of totality. host: what is your mother say about it? caller: she was tearful. quite a few of them cried.

host: did you see other family members with their families there? caller: yes, they were. there wasn't old gentleman walking down the stairs and he had to lawn chairs in his hands. i got out of my vehicle and i carried his lawn chairs to make it to his destination and he said oh, thank you. and i said but me set them down for you. and she said what took you so long and i said i had to carry those chairs. host: trina in indianapolis. thank you for calling and giving

us your perspective. jonathan in waterloo, iowa on yesterday's eclipse. jonathan in waterloo, iowa? we will try one more time. let's hear from kevin in kentucky. caller: yes. i want to go back to the earlier eclipse available in 78, 79? that was a total eclipse. i was very young one that occurred. if you have never experienced in the eclipse of the sun you are missing out. i know a lot of these people don't care about that and will not be bothered with what is going on.

and you are robbing yourself. you are robbing yourself of seeing something a lot of people are never able to see. i would advise in 2044 if you are young enough to make it, i'm sure i won't be around. it's an awesome experience. host: what is to think of yesterday specifically? caller: i got to the time where it was nearly completely, we only had 90% coverage. in southern indiana you could see a hundred percent. the way it looks is so phenomenal. you can experience that unless you get out and try to see it. host: did you run into people

say they would not bother with it? caller: i heard yesterday's program and it seem like a whole bunch of people had not experienced it and didn't want any part of it. either they had to work or do something else. but there was a time during work where employers said, go outside and look at it. there were about five vehicles looking at it at the same time i was but it was extremely cloudy here. you could see about 90% of it in the little outline of the sun in the sky. it was so awesome.

if you have never experienced that you need to do it. host: if you missed it this time around, kevin, thank you for calling us from kentucky. you can give us your experience if you live in the eastern time zone (202) 748-8000, mountain and pacific (202) 748-8001 and if you travel that is (202) 748-8002. jim in new jersey. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my phone call. to put it quite simply, may wonders never cease. host: how does that relate to yesterday? caller: there was a phenomenon

that only our heavenly father could have produced for us. or provide, rather. host: did you watch it with family, friends? caller: i watched about myself. i watched it via televised broadcasts. host: you watched it on television rather than going outside? caller: there was no indication whatsoever here. not that i know of. i am homebound right now. i recently came home from rehab.

i cannot go out. host: jim from new jersey talking about his experiences when it comes to yesterday. adding into the mix, if you are interested in the financial aspects of yesterday's events axios has a story looking at the dow jones industrial average and what it does the day after a total eclipse going back to 2017. they saw a series of losses in 79, 73 and 54 ended 1932 and dropped more than 1%. if you care to put that in the

mix of yesterday's event. thank you for those calling in and participated in that event. for the remainder of our time, we invite you to open forum. you could talk about the eclipse there was news about student loans, the abortion, pending work of the house and senate. republicans (202) 748-8001. for democrats (202) 748-8000, for independentss (202) 748-8002. you can talk about the events of the eclipse as well and we will take those calls momentarily. one more thing to show you courtesy of nasa this is the

eclipse coverage when it had totality in taxes. [video clip] >> the bird started to fly in a very wear pattern. -- strange pattern. we are nearly there. wow. [applause] woo-hoo. there is the corona. oh my goodness, that is amazing. go away clouds. oh my goodness. look how dark it is around here?

you can see that white ring? wow. here we go. yes, woo-hoo. we have about four minutes and 25 seconds. >> this really does remind you we are on this one planet a part of a larger system. >> and you have to be on this planet to view this. that is why we are team son, earth and moon. all of nasa science represented by the solar eclipse and

something witnessed by 30 million of us today. imagine how many people traveled here. this is getting me extra excited about all of the science. it was nice to get a taste of it. >> it is so dark. you are able to see the pink raised. it has been incredible. what is your favorite part about this? is this your first? >> this is my second one. 2017, i saw it there.

you can study the corona, but suddenly you see it with your own eyes and it is that feeling of that is our star. it is not just the sun anymore. that is a star. and you see it looking like a star. as we look for planets in other galaxies that might be able to support life, we need to understand our relationship on this planet with that star, so it is so important. when you see it, you are like, it actually is a star, not just a bright point of light in the sky. you can see how exciting the sun is and how dynamic it is. host: that was from yesterday. you can talk about the events of the eclipse if you want or other matters of politics if you want as well. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats.

independents, (202) 748-8002. you can always text at (202) 748-8003. on this open forum in ohio, go ahead. >> i just think about how lovely the experience of the eclipse was for myself, my son. we were not in the totality, but we were in cincinnati, which was relatively near and got to experience it for a long time. i was moved by the caller who said he was housebound and how he watched it on television. that was one of the things i also experienced through the day leading up to it and i felt that was important. i think many people were able to experience it who would not have otherwise and it was a pleasant change of pace for the nation in

our divisiveness, so that is all i had to say. i experienced a natural phenomenon that unified me with my fellow community members. host: werther a lot of people -- were there a lot of people around you? caller: no, i was alone with my son in our backyard. we were with the birds and stuff and the bees. knowing that it was going on around the nation and having seen the crowds on television as well as the totality and just the feeling of calm that existed in the divisiveness we experienced today, sometimes it is lost.

so i found this inspiring and rejuvenating. host: thank you for giving us your perspective there. this is in california, independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. the eclipse is a sign that god is in existence. for god to show himself to the world. most people -- a very unique position that the almighty living god -- but we do not recognize it. thank you. host: let's hear from burning in kentucky, democrats line, on this open forum. hello. caller: it was a great day

yesterday the thing that was fascinating to me was when the birds and bees and everything felt like it was time to go to bed. they were so quiet. it was similar to a snowstorm where there was not any noise from animals and birds and we are in kentucky. i never thought about getting glasses for some reason, so i went downstairs to the university and i had an old welder's helmet. i was able to watch it there and i came home for a few minutes down the street from where i worked and i watched it with my wife and dog to see how the dog reacted. nasa also provides a schedule for the iss for when it will be flying over and when it will

appear and of course you have to figure in weather, but that is another fantastic thing to watch out for. host: you mean when it travels in front of the son? >> no, this is night or in the early morning. they do in up to the minute schedule on when it will be flying over so you do not have to stand out and wait for it. something else to look for. space, the final frontier. host: have you been a science nerd, so to speak? caller: i think so. i work at the university. you work at the university, you have to love science. host: this is from william in ohio, independent line. caller: i was thinking during the eclipse yesterday of how small mankind really is in the

universe and how stupid this country is acting right now. i wanted to make a comment about blood for this and blood for that. it was said before the civil war in congress that let there be blood and he said, bring it if you are going to because i will die for democracy. thank you very much. host: you can talk about the events of yesterday when it comes to the eclipse and about political events as well. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democratss and independent, (202) 748-8002. many people paying attention to the heavens yesterday. on earth, an announcement from the biden administration when it comes to student loans, saying more than 26 million americans would benefit from the latest

plan to provide debt relief for student loan borrowers, according to the education department. the plan was first detailed last fall and refined over the course of public meetings. our words would see some form of relief if they fall into one of five categories the president yesterday making an announcement about these categories and the people who might see relief. here is the announcement from yesterday. >> first, my ministration will propose a new rule and cancel $20,000 in runaway interest for any borrower who owes more now than when they started paying the loan. that is a big difference. for low and middle class families, the program will cancel all of interest. second, it is time to cancel student debt for borrowers who still owe student loans even though they started repaying

them more than two decades ago. we plan to cancel debt for about 2 million borrowers who would be eligible for debt forgiveness through the program. or other debt canceling programs but are not enrolled in these programs. some of you are only funny out after the fact as a teacher or firefighter or cop that you qualify but you did not know. but you are eligible matter how long it has -- you have been out of the program. we plan to cancel debt for borrowers who the department of education determines were cheated by universities elect students in unaffordable loans. you know one of those colleges is closed. the department of education will propose a new rule to cancel student debt for americans facing financial hardship from

childcare to health care to prevent them from paying back their loans. host: special announcement at our website and the app. you can follow that. from pennsylvania, democrat line , hello. caller: i watch the eclipse yesterday with my mother. it was pretty cloudy but at the last minute the clouds cleared up and i saw it. it was just beautiful. i enjoyed it. i wanted to say it was awesome to have something like that unite the country and everybody was watching it in their own little silos and coming together as a country. i wish we would do that with ukraine. i think everybody should call their representatives and demand

we approve that aid for them. back when they give up their nuclear weapons, we asked them to, they did it and we said we would help them if there -- if their territorial integrity was compromised and we need to keep our word and do that. that needs to be done immediately because they are losing ground now. that is all. host: one of the things to watch out for on the house side with the house coming back from its break on what they will do as far as the future of ukraine aid is concerned, speaker johnson expect to lay out some type of path forward as far as the plan to be voted on. watch for that in the house. other things to watch out for in washington today, the defense secretary will be joined by the joint chiefs of staff and the pentagon comptroller on the defens deptmt 2025 budget request.

you see that in front of the senate armed services committee on c-span3 and online at c-span.org. tomorrow commend the impeachment triahe homeland security sey is at 4:00 wednesday when the house managers will deliver the two articles of impeachment to the senate which will charge the secretary with willful refusal to -- to comply with the law areach of public trust for his handling of the u.s. southern border. a trial will proceed on the senate floor but it is possible senator's may vote to dismiss the charges immediately or referred the matter to a special committee. a lot could happen wednesday. see that play out on c-span2 and our app. let's hear from doug in minnesota, democrats line. caller: i want to say how much i appreciated the words from the

woman from pennsylvania just now. my hometown human rights -- what would you call it? organization has a great statement on israel and gaza about the eclipse. it would make a great name for a barbershop that only accepts appointments online. the other thing is i once read astronomers are embarrassed about the eclipse. this is the reason. the odds against such a thing happening are so astronomical literally and figuratively that they are embarrassed about it. the odds are two celestial

objects are so apparently close in size, exactly the same size to our perception, and an eclipse is a great exercise in observing that because they are exactly the same size, not close, not one smaller and one bigger, to our eyes they are exactly the same size, and the other embarrassing coincidence is that there are cindy and beings -- shenzhen -- sentient beings that observe this. host: michael in vermont, independent line. caller: i was fortunate where i lived in vermont. it went right over my head.

a year ago, i was praying for -- i lost a lot of people to last few years, so i said the same prayers and even more important to all of us, this is a perfect time for yourself, your family, your friends, your children and grandchildren, that astrophysicists -- astrophysicist stephen hawking wrote a book called a brief history of time, a fantastic book that i recommend to anybody to pique their interest in nature and the universe. host: andy in florida. independent line. caller: a question on the thing that went on in michigan as far as everybody chanting death to america and to israel.

the question i have on that is, as far as freedom of speech, is that incitement of an attack on america as far as riling up the community to incite violence? i wonder if you have anything on that. host: i am no legal expert on that front, but what concerned you about the events there? caller: i think it is disrespectful, to be honest, that people are allowed to say death to america and just chant it. as a military veteran who fought for freedom's here, if you do not like the country, leave. there are a lot of people trying to get in here to do good and we have people here that are doing bad. if you do not like it, leave. host: andy in florida joining us

on this open forum. some people continue talking about the event of yesterday when it comes to the eclipse. you can add your thoughts as well as other topics. you can send a text and post on facebook. when it comes to the former president, a couple decisions yesterday when it comes to his legal issues. cbs reports an appellate judge monday denied a request but -- by the former president seeking to delay the start of the new york criminal case. trump made multiple times to push back the trial, suing the judge one week before the jury selection was set to begin in a pair of sealed filings. mr. trump asked the appellate court for a change of venue and stay of a gag order that prevents him from commenting publicly on, among others, the judge's daughter, who works for a democrat aligned consulting firm.

that was yesterday. also yesterday, on the pending case before the supreme court, the former president -- the special counsel urging the court to reject claims of immunity and prevent the former president from further delaying the federal election subversion case trial in washington. in a monday net filing, he argued that mr. trump's claim that he is immune contracts -- the bedrock principle that no one is above the law, adding his constitutional duty to take care of the law does not entail a general right to violate them. there is more there at the hill if you want to read it there. this is from maryland, independent line on this open forum. >> i am calling about -- caller: i am calling about the

eclipse. i drove up from maryland with my friends on sunday to new york and watch it from there. it was absolute leave beautiful. we camped out there and we grilled some steaks while it was happening. just a wonderful time, a wonderful birthday. amazing astronomical event. i recommend that anyone who can see the next one if they are able. host: is this the first time you have done something like this when it comes to this type of event? >> we just got a partial in the last eclipse and figured this time it was worth driving up to new york. traffic on the way back down was crazy but it was worth it for everything. host: there were a lot of reports about traffic being intense, especially in areas that were expected to experience a totality. at that to the mix if you want to talk about that as far as your experience if you are going to talk about the eclipse.

in ohio, judith is next. caller: hello. i have always wanted to call and now i can because this is not a political question. it is about the eclipse and everyone talking about it. did you personally get to see it ? i know you're not allowed to comment one way or the other, but did you get to see it? host: i will say yes. caller: everyone is calling and i was like, i wonder if pedro got to see it? that is what i wanted to ask. we saw it. it was great. i'm glad you got to see it. host: where you at home? were you with family? tell us about that experience. caller: we were at home. we live out in the country and it was nice and quiet and great.

i just thought i would call in and ask. host: where is that located as far as ohio? it was a sense of where it is on the map? caller: they can -- they call it neil armstrong's hometown of the town made a big fuss about it, but we stay away from town and kept it to ourselves. host: thanks for asking. glad you enjoyed the experience. again, if you want to add that to the mix on the lines, you can post there too on our various sites. this is open forum. you can talk about anything and the events of yesterday when it comes to the former president on his truth social site making comments about his positioning on abortion and abortion related matters. there is a longer clip available on the truth social site. [video clip] >> my view is now where we have

abortion everyone wanted it from a legal standpoint, the states will determine by vote or legislation or both and whatever they decide must be the law of the land, in case -- in this case the law of the state. many states will be different. many will have a different number of weeks or some will have more conservative than others and that is what they will be. at the end of the day, this is about the will of the people. you must follow your heart or religion or faith. do what is right for you -- for your family and yourself. do what is right for your children. do what is right for our country and vote. so important to vote. it is all about the will of the people. that is where we are now and what we want, the will of the people. host: that was on his truth social site yesterday. washer journal reported when it

comes to a cease-fire proposal between hamas and israel, saying hamas would free 40 of the more than 100 captives in return for the release from its israeli prisoners -- from its israeli prisons prisoners including those convicted of terrorism during a six-week cease-fire in gaza. the u.s. also proposed to allow civilian palestinians to return without restriction to northern gaza from the south because they have been displaced since the conflict began in october, this story adding under the plan hamas will deliver 40 hostages, including five female soldiers, and compromise on which palestinian prisoners could be freed. there was no immediate reaction from hamas. that is from the wall street journal this morning. godfrey in canada, republican line, hello. caller: good morning.

i want to talk about the former president trump on his immunity argument. i tend to align a little bit with his point because if a former president or president in power does not get to enjoy immunity, what stops the next president they get into power from finding fault and what the former president did and prosecuting him? jack smith the prosecutor is indicating they are accusing trump of doing those things he did to benefit himself, that is up for two -- effort to subvert the election -- who said that george bush going to invade iraq based on a false pretense was

not to benefit himself? you can make an argument that bush invaded iraq not to help -- to power up his friends' socks. who says you could not make a case that biden is allowing all these illegal immigrants flowing into the country in order to benefit the democrats in the future? and that is a personal benefit to democrats. there are several arguments you can make and this becomes a slippery slope. i think the supreme court should take a pause to understand the case very well and find a way to strike a balance. instead of saying trump does not have immunity. they open up a pandora's box. if a president can find something of a former president did and use the justice department to prosecute him. host: in virginia, independent

line. caller: i have a financial question. do you think there's any benefit to our country to having every state adopt virginia's tax credit law for dentists positions -- dentists, physicians, and lawyers who help people by giving them a state tax credit? i think this is something that makes legal and medical care serve the public interest. host: ok. wilhelm in virginia. let's hear from george in illinois. caller: i was going to make a comment about the eclipse we had yesterday and won seven years earlier in the opposite direction.

it seems like it was an x across the nation and that could be considered a cross. i think that is proof god is claiming this nation as his own and we are going forward. host: george in illinois on our independent line. you can call in for a few minutes more when it comes to this open forum and give your thoughts on the variety of things you have heard our viewers talk about. that conversation continues on our social media site if you want to post there. if you want to send us texts, (202) 748-8003. we showed you the comments from former president trump and it comes to the matter of abortion yesterday on truth social the biden administration released his own ad looking at abortion related issues. [video clip] >> this is just filled with some

of the things we had started gathering for her while i was pregnant. there is the little baby book. this is the outfit she was going to wear home from the hospital. all of these. this is the blanket she was in. these were her little footprints. >> i am joe biden and i approve this message.

host: let's hear from charles in washington, d.c., line for democrats. caller: how are you doing out there? host: you are on. go ahead. caller: america has been waiting for all these years because of immigration. the jewish people, the germans who came to america. because the integrated into america, america has been waiting all this time. then we had the free labor that came from africa that really helped america prosper. that is true. now america is tired of winning so they want to keep people out. michael jordan got tired of winning basketball, so you want to play baseball. don't get tired of winning. winning is when you incorporate people, not reject them. and gentlemen talked about bush

and immunity. that is not the weight works in this country. we do not deal with stroman -- strawmen even though that is what he is trying to do. if you do not have laws that everybody abides by it deteriorates quick. that is all i want to say today. one more call from texas, republican line. caller: good morning. i wanted to speak on the statement president biden made to israel. why is he turning his back on israel? hamas a needs to be talking to hamas. they went into israel and slaughtered babies and then you

have people in michigan screaming death to america and death to israel. they need to be bringing charges up on them for insurrection instead of messing with trump. host: finishing off this round of clips and open forum. thank you for all who to stash rticipated. first up we will hear from th quincy institute for responsible statecraft here tdiscuss u.s. arms sales and transfer policy amid conflicts in the mideast and eastern europe. later on in the program a discussion on election security with nick perryman. those conversations coming up on washington journal. ♪ >> this week is the opening of the impeachment trial of homeland security secretary ellie hans ro mayorkas only the

second cabinet member to be impeached by the house. house impeachment managers led by mark green that delivered the two articles of impeachment to the senate refusing to comply with immigration laws and breach of public trust. patty murray presides over the trial and the senate will be sworn in as jurors. mitch mcconnell says the chamber is expected to vote on whether to dismiss or kill the impeachment charges. live coverage wednesday on c-span2. and online at c-span.org. >> c-span has been delivered unfiltered coverage for 45 years. here's a highlight from key moments. >> although this city was the nation's capital for a short time from those early days the eyes of the world have continued to be on new york.

one year ago this great center of history, enterprise and creativity suffered the greatest cruelties and showed itself to be a place of valor and generosity and grace. here are so many innocent lives were suddenly taken the world saw acts of kindness and heroism but will be remembered forever. c-span powered by cable. >> get contact information for members of government in the palm of your hand when you preorder your copy of c-span's 2024 congressional directory with bio and contact information for every house and senate member of the 118th congress. important information on committees, federal agencies and state government. the congressional directory costs 3299 plus shipping and handling. scan the code on the right or go

to c-spanshop.org to preorder your copy today for delivery this spring. >> the house will be in order. >> this year c-span celebrates 45 years of covering topics like no other. since 1979 we have been your primary source for capitol hill providing balanced unfiltered coverage. taking you to where the policy is debated and decided with support of america's cable companies. c-span, 45 years and counting powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: from new york joining us, william hartung, he serves as a senior research fellow thank you for giving us your time. could you tell us a little bit about the institute, the philosophical approach when it comes to foreign policy and how

you are funded? guest: our main goal is to promote more diplomacy and less war. we are trans-partisan which means we reach out across the political spectrum to people who have similar goals. we have a combination of foundation and individual funders which we are listing on our website. we are relatively new in the washington scene but trying to add our voice to the debate. host: you're invited to talk about arms sales and transfers. how do -- how does the topic of those arms transfers how do they factor into conflict across the world? >> the textbook argument is they help allies defend themselves, in some cases that is certainly true as in ukraine trying to protect itself from russia's invasion. in other cases they can make war

more likely by arming oppressive regimes or countries that are invading their neighbors to negative effect like the saudi intervention in yemen for example. it's -- what's needed is more evaluation of when these arms sales serve the purpose of defense and when they can make difficult situations worse. host: before we go too far what's the difference between an arms sale and an arms transfer. guest: a transfer is a broader category. anyway in which armaments are given to a country. there is sales for countries like saudi arabia. it covers both categories. >> when it comes to the u.s. i guess is there a philosophy or standard when it comes to who we give arms to. how do you -- how should that be changed.

>> plenty of good language not arming countries that have systematic human rights abuses, countries involved in aggression. but often those are overlooked in service of other goals set by the administration or there's a waiver. there's a provision about not arming countries that are blocking u.s. military and aid. that's really the question partly creating those provisions to be enforced. also congress needs a stronger role. in theory they can vote them down through a vetoproof majority, they've never successfully done that. they did vote against a bomb sale to saudi arabia but that was vetoed by president trump. one way to go about it is for a

certain category of sale, congress would have to approve them affirmatively as opposed to just suffer often a veto to block their intentions. i think more transparency about who we are selling to and how the weapons are being used and enforcement of some of the provisions in existing law. guest: do these typically start with presidents desire to do so. guest: usually there is a request from the allied country for certain equipment. they coordinate with the pentagon in terms of assessing their needs the state department will have to approve major sales and the president's opinion is the ultimate decision but that often only comes into play in major deals in controversial sales. president biden has been firm

about keeping the arms flowing to israel despite all the deaths and the conflict and the slaughter. i think the president is a key player. in other cases it can be handled. >> to what degree does the president itself have to make the case to congress to allow the sales and transfers to happen. >> generally perhaps with instructions from the white house it would be the state department or the pentagon making those cases and it could be to an individual senator a testimony, there could be questions from foreign affairs committees. each case is different but it -- the major deals where the president is a driving force. host: we will continue our discussion on arms sales and arm transfers by desk to other countries by the united states but if you want to ask questions you can call in on the line. 202-748-8001 for republicans.

202-748-8000 for democrats. independents, 202-748-8002. you can also text your comments in at 202-748-8003. if the state department is making a request to what degree does congress have the ability to step in and say we have concerns? guest: one way is a joint resolution of disapproval. it would generally need a vetoproof majority. there are other methods. heads of the foreign affairs committees can put a hold on certain sales which is a custom, not a law. in certain circumstances the president might override but often they do observe those holds. if congress makes enough noise sometimes the administration will reconsider, they will hold back, they will change the weapons involved in the package. but ultimately the demonstration has a lot of leeway because

congress tools are somewhat weak in really enforcing its desires in these matters. >> can you expand on that? guest: for example they need -- it's very rare you would get that in the house and senate and since the holds are a custom as opposed to a law they can be overridden as well, they can also be emergency declared by the president where basic notifications don't come into play. the washington post found out of 100 deal since october 7 only two were formerly -- formally notified publicly. the administration for whatever reason enabling the killing being done in gaza they don't want the public to know or debate the details. host: at the stage we are seeing

events happening in the mid east when it comes to hamas and israel what do you think about the nature of congress wanting to get more muscle in these types of sales or transfer? >> i think in this case it would be quite valuable. there's been some key members who have spoken out saying we should stop sales until israel agrees to stop the killings, to a cease-fire to letting all humanitarian aid in. i think that makes sense given the court of justice at the could be a case of what's being done accounts for genocide and certainly there are very serious human rights abuses and i would say war crimes being committed. for the reputation of the united states, for the lives of the people in gaza i think ultimately for the future of israel i think the feeling there has to stop.

if congress were to push that i think that would be a positive step. host: if you are on the line wait a little bit, i want to play you a little bit of what the secretary of state had to say just last week when they talked about the continued transfers to israel. it's a bit of a lengthy quote but we will play it and get your thoughts on it. [video clip] >> this is also true with other countries, there are a number of open cases, open requests of previously notified cases which had not been fully fulfilled or completed. in the case of israel for example there are many requests that were made and were notified congress. a decade or more. and it takes time often to produce the material or the

weapons in question, the parts, etc.. these complex systems could take years to actually allow us to fulfill the request and agreement. so many of the cases that you occasionally report on now underwent congressional review years ago and were notified years ago. well before the conflict in gaza started. >> congress never had a chance -- >> all of this context is important. we of course also go out of our way to make sure that we are actually going above and beyond the law for what's required. in briefing congress. we go to the relevant oversight committees, we make sure that they are aware of ongoing

transfers above the statutory threshold. even ones that they approved a long time ago. and even when there's no requirement that there be additional notice or additional approval of any kind. we've been focused on trying to make sure that october 7 can never happen again. but having said that, the security relationship we have with israel is not just about gaza, hamas, october 7. it's also about the threats posed to israel by hezbollah, by iran, by various other actors in the region. each one of which has vowed one way or another to try and destroy israel. so the weapons, the systems that israel has sought to acquire and as i said have been contracted in many cases for many years goes to self-defense.

they go to deterrence trying to avoid more conflict. host: that's the defense from the secretary of state, what do you think of that offense? guest: i think there's a lot of weaknesses there. first of all the fact that they were passed through congress years ago, this is an entirely different situation. 36 thousand dead, aid workers killed, aid impeded, people driven from their homes. so whatever congress said 10 years ago is not at all relevant now. he also said they go out of their way to notify congress of sales above threshold but the point is most of the sale since october 7 have purposely been put below threshold therefore they can avoid telling congress and the public to that degree. to call what's happening now defense is really to stretch the language beyond what you can really accept. the kind of killing that's

happening there is certainly not defense. israel has also for example attacked an iranian consulate in syria which risks provoking a wider war. it can certainly defend itself. i think he's mixing two issues. a lot of the things going to israel are out of stockpiles so they are going immediately and they were not approved. it's almost like the secretary of state is describing a world that does not exist at this crucial moment. >> we will hear from katie in maryland, democrats line. go ahead. >> good morning, thank you for taking my call. often with these foreign wars you hear if we are not providing money directly we might provide aid in the forms of weapon systems are military systems in the argument sometimes that money goes back to american economy and american companies.

my question is to what extent if any to american economic factors in these arms transfers and may be industry or corporate influence in the transfer of these arms. guest: i think it comes into play if there is an effort to block the sale. in the case of israel the president has the political commitment and ideological commitment so it wasn't likely the industry drops out but he has been leaning on the issue of jobs in the united states especially to try and push you the ukraine package secondarily with respect to arms to israel. the problem with that is selling arms as a life-and-death issue. i do not think you can hook it to jobs in particular and jobs related to arms sales depending on spending produce fewer jobs in a most anything else that the government can do. if we want jobs let's have a jobs program with keep our foreign policy focused on our

security of our allies, protecting individuals from repression and attack. i think the president is kind of echoing a little bit what president trump did pushing arms sales to saudi arabia. i think it was wrong then and it is wrong now. it's a political move that's hard to resist in some ways because the president is trying to get republicans on his side and people who may be on the fence but i think if he can make the case on security grounds or on human rights grounds i think bringing the demand stick economics into it is not really a legitimate way to promote this policy. >> william joins us for this discussion on arms sales and transferred other countries. there is an overriding principle or at least the act called the arms export coroact. we will show this to our

audiceut can you describe what that means and what it rv as far as a framework of transfer of as or sales of arms. >> people don't ask about that very often. it was implemented in the 1970's in a time when members of congress got a most no information about arms sales. greece and turkey were using weapons to fight over cyprus. we were funneling weapons to angola to try and overthrow the government there. there were many other deals. there was a huge increase in sales to the middle east partly because president nixon wanted the strategy of more arms sales unless troops. it was done at a moment when congress felt like it was a flood of arms sales and they needed input. so they passed the arms control act which meant major deals had to be reported in detail to congress, congress has the right

to vote them down. the idea this would give congress the idea -- the inputted needed to be in equal branch of government. it's been so difficult to use the act for example to block dubious sales that it needs to be upgraded and members like tim mcgovern, nancy mace have a specific bill that would sort of flip the script on some major sales and say congress must affirmatively approve these deals not just be able to bring a vetoproof majority against them. israel, nato, japan using the old system would be exempted from this approval but at least it would create some leverage for congress that does not exist now. host: ultimately that would have to be signed by a president, how likely is a president to give that up. host: you need strong -- guest:

you need strong support from congress and the public. i think one of the arguments would be if these are in our interest why wouldn't you be able to make the case? why shouldn't congress have -- serve a stronger role. it would certainly be a debate but i think there would be some downsides to a president saying congress shouldn't have the right to block sales to a dictator or a country like saudi arabia and cause thousands of deaths in yemen. it would be a political fight as there is over most foreign policy issues. i think it would be a positive reform and i think if it got that far pressure could come to bear for the president to sign it. host: democrats line, marty, you are up next. caller: good morning. i was wondering if this is a new way of looking at things but if all the money we spend on bombs

and offensive weapons but if we had paid reparations to the palestinian people for having really taken their property in order to create the state of israel? it's just another thought. maybe an apology and reparations and maybe we wouldn't have so much conflict over there. thank you so much. guest: i think certainly recognizing the humanity and the rights of the palestinian people should be a policy in the united states, whether it's the mechanism i would have to reflect on that but the immediate task is to stop the killing and i think the best way to do that is to stop the arms flow and stop enabling that until there is a cease-fire and a commitment to humanitarian aid, once that's done than the larger long-term kind of arrangement can -- for them to live in peace would have to be

addressed. it's not easy but it's certainly not to happen while this kind of slaughter proceeds. host: if arms are transferred or weapons are transferred to another country does it come with conditions of any kind? guest: there often are conditions. the president recently put out a memorandum saying countries should sign a statement saying they will abide by u.s. law on things like human rights and humanitarian aid flow. the problem with that is it doesn't really have a lot of enforcement. basically they take a look at whether the country is observing u.s. law they will report back in 45 days and they can either say make them promise again, the administration spokesperson already jumped the gun recently and said we haven't seen any violations by israel which just

stretches credulity given what we can see with our own eyes what's happening in gaza. host: a headline to show you when and comes to israel there's a question of whether the white house currently pressing congress to approve f-15 sales to israel and congress looking back at that. factoring the conversation on the overall process. guest: one of the arguments the administration has made is these planes won't be delivered for years but to push forward another arms deal while israel is doing what it's doing in gaza is a must get another staple of support for the nine yahoo! government. -- for the netanyahu government. it could turn into disapproval and the two houses or could be a strong statement to try and persuade the administration to think twice. sometimes those statements will

derail slow. it's certain -- it comes down to can you change the mind of the president and his team and so far they have been very resistant to limiting arms sales to israel over gaza or anything else. >> considering he was a longtime member was on the others of the process. guest: it's interesting because when he was in the senate, he introduced the idea of congress having to affirmatively approve sales very similar to the bill the rest -- that they are putting forward. the president has not spoken about that or been vocally supportive of it. i think often there is a switch and some members at least will

speak out against sales that violates human rights or prolongs wars. i did a report for quincy that found 46 conference in the world , 34 of them wanted -- 31 of our recipients were designated not free looking at these things. there's a lot to be said about shifting priorities in arms sales. with more power to do something about it. they have to go hat in hand, please reconsider this. host: with the quincy institute for responsible statecraft as their senior research fellow. 202-748-8001 for republicans.

202-748-8000 for democrats. independents, 202-748-8002. a text saying is there any scenario where it's possible to suspend arms to israel immediately? guest: it's in the hands of the president in terms of things on the verge of being delivered, future commitments. ultimately president biden can make that happen. he would have to choose to do so which he has yet to do. host: democrats line, good morning. caller: c-span was running on the 70 for the anniversary of nato and i caught some of it in between the eclipse and all and i'm watching it this morning.

how much of this is arms and transfers for nato, could you answer that? guest: in prior years for growing markets were in the middle east and asia with a steady flow of nato members. since russia's invasion of ukraine there's been a tilt towards more sales to europe. poland made deals for $40 billion worth of u.s. weaponry which is unheard of. germany is talking about buying the f-35 which was not expected and certainly related to russian actions in ukraine. the important thing about nato is its role as an alliance to defend europe makes sense in the fact european countries could coordinate and use resources better to defend themselves

without as large a u.s. role in europe but then when nato gets into questions of wanting to play a role vis-a-vis china or other u.s. interventions around the world, that goes beyond the main value. continues to be part of the discussion about architecture for the world. host: gary, republican line. caller: thank you. i am bewildered on why the guest is against arms for israel. with the attacks that occurred in october, correct me if i'm wrong, her there still hostages

-- are there still hostages in play? it is certainly a long history lesson to the oppression of the jews. why would we be trying to pull them back from establishing peace for themselves for the foreseeable future? blocking their military pursuits just seems counterproductive to longer-term peace not only within that region but also in the brower. -- in the world. hamas and others need to understand that if these types of behaviors continue, the results will be severe and unrelenting. i realize that people are

getting killed in these military strikes. some by accident. it is war. consequences arise out of these types of conflicts. host: tanks for the call -- thanks for the call. guest: that is a good articulation of the opposite view. what has happened in gaza is almost unprecedented. 13,000 people killed in short order, the impeding of aid has put people at risk of starvation. this is far more than responding to hamas as for fish -- as vicious as those attacks were. i don't think it serves the long-term interest of israel. i don't think it will prevent a

hamas from rising again. i do not think attacking an entire territory in response to attack by specific groups is the path to peace. host: according to the state department earlier this year, the total value of transferred defense articles totals $81 billion representing a 56% increase. what people think about that increase? guest: a lot of it was to europe. there is this thing that can happen in the pentagon where the agency that brokers a lot of these deals will say we had a good year. we sold more weapons. i don't think that is the way to measure it. it has to do with who you are selling to, how you are using

them, what's the effect on security and human beings. we have to pay more attention to that. we have to be more transparent about when we deliver these weapons, how they are being used. for many of them there is information upfront about what is being offered but as it goes on to being used on the ground, there is less information from our government. we depend on investigative reporters, human rights investigators, for example, that found that u.s. weapons were used on a school bus, water treatment plants. it should not be up to someone outside the government to find out the consequences of these arms deals. that should be the government's responsibility given that this represents the united states and our tax dollars. host: do you think there is any degree of sway considering the

deaths of those humanitarian workers last week? guest: i think in this changed the political equation -- it has changed the political equation. there were aids workers and journalists as well. is this gets people's attention --if this gets people's attention, i am all for that. host: when it comes to the arms transfers, what does that due to u.s. supplies and do we have enough for our own defense needs? guest: between yemen, ukraine, what has been heavy use of artillery shells, missiles and

equipment and this applies to israel, it has been said that for certain items, the stock is running low. we don't know that for sure because certain levels are classified. the second thing to ask is are the transfers necessary. in the case of ukraine, what i would not like to see happen is the permanent expansion of our arms industry based on this specific example and the industry of some of the pentagon have been pushing for that. down the road we will have excess capacity, excess spending. it would be harder to roll that back. this is a question that needs serious consideration. preferably with more information about where we stand as a pers to -- as opposed to a vague statement by the government without any real information. host: johnson from rhode island,

democrats line. caller: i have two comments. the first is about the attack on the aid workers. three missiles hit three different trucks. that was purposeful. you only have to look back to the uss liberty where the israelis attacked the united states spy ship. there is a concerted effort to disrupt aid to gaza, no matter how they do it. the second issue is more problematic. senators and congressmen receive $25,000 per year from israel. that political contribution would amount to $18,000. i am wondering if the guests would like to comment on the israeli political machine that is probably the second largest

lobby in the united states next to aarp. guest: yes. the route of the aid workers was known to israeli military. the vehicles were marked. the case could be made that it was not a mistake. as for the political situation, foreign governments are not allowed to make contributions to u.s. politicians. they are allowed to do so under a surrogate. israel's power has to do with political support in the united states from groups like aipac and also individuals. there is a strong lobby for israel but it is structured differently. like uae and saudi arabia would do things like employ former u.s. military officials to work for them after they leave the

government. i think the two models are somewhat different. there is a level of political support for israel among the american public that does not exist for some of these other countries that are using these lobbying methods. host: the council for foreign relations has a chart that looks at aid to israel from 1946 to 2023. a good deal of it in military aid but also to egypt, afghanistan and south vietnam is topping the lists. talk about the other countries that get military aid aside from israel and ukraine and what is surprising about those countries that we are giving that to. guest: the aid program, over the years the big recipients have been israel, egypt, turkey for a while. about 25 countries get some of that money. a vast majority goes to the

middle east. israel, egypt and jordan to some extent. there are other programs that can transfer arms. those programs could be worth another $10 billion or more. those are much less transparent to the public. it varies. some of the countries who are problematic like saudi arabia have their own money to spend. others need u.s. aid. egypt is a good example. other members have been trained to scale back that aid. the human rights records point out in many cases that the egyptian government takes position opposite of the united states. they are not even aligned with the u.s. on many issues. yes, it's a combination. the other question is how the

weapons are being used. there is also more leverage in the sense that congress could reduce the aid money. it is a significant amount of money. the other idea is that this is not helping our economy because we are playing -- paying with our tax dollars. host: how does the united states compared to other countries when it comes to transfers to either israel, ukraine or other areas of the world? guest: the best source for comparing these things is the stockholm place research institute. globally, the u.s. has about 40% of the market. france has about 10%. russia, around that. china, even less. israel is more than two thirds

the other major supplier being germany. when saudi arabia was at the peak of its war in yemen, the u.s. and the u.k. were the primary suppliers. the u.s. is often the key supplier except in states where we do not have relations like syria or china. the u.s. sells weapons in a given year to 107 countries in a given year. that is more than half of the u.n. member states. in my mind, this has become business as usual. it has to be looked at much more carefully in terms of how it affects our security and the security of the countries. it is this huge aspect of our foreign policy. it is almost taken for granted. host: i was going to ask you how

optimistic are usr's changes to what you are currently seeing -- how optimistic are you as far as changes to what you are currently seeing. guest: although they did not win the day, there was a strong congressional opposition to arms to saudi arabia at the peak of the war there. in some cases, in apartheid south africa, there was a global embargo. it was pushed to not just embargo on arms but all interactions. there have been times when it has happened. i think it requires a fair amount of understanding, pressure and a few champions. when they passed the act in the 70's, a senator from wisconsin was a key leader. he cared enough about it to

shovel it through the process. leaders in congress felt the pressure. a president who also sees that we need to change course. i think it can be done. i would not want to give up on it because there is so much at stake. host: our guest's website is quincyin.org. he is the senior research fellow. coming up, how secure are this year's elections? we will have that discussion with issue one's nick penniman. before that, open forum. (202) 748-8001, republicans. open forum continues after this.

>> on wednesday, president biden and first lady jill biden will host a state dinner operating the japanese prime minister. watch live at 5:30 a.m. eastern on our website -- 5:30 p.m. eastern on our website. later at 11:00 p.m. we will have highlights from the evening including the prime minister and his arrival and toasts. watch the white house state dinner wednesday on the c-span networks. >> friday night watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail, a round of c-span campaign coverage providing a one-stop shop to discover what the candidates across the country are saying to voters along with first-hand accounts from political

reporters, poll numbers, fundraising data and campaign ads. watch c-span's 2024 campaign trail friday night at 7:30 p.m. eastern or download the podcast from our free mobile app. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> since 1979 in partnership with the cable industry c-span has provided coverage of the halls of congress from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, briefings and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row seat to how issues are debated and decided with no commentary, interruptions and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government.

>> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington on demand. keep up with events on livestreamed's and floor proceedings -- with live streams and floor proceedings, campaigns and more from the world of politics all at your fingertips. stay current with the latest episodes of "washington journal" and scheduling information for c-span radio. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. scan the qr code to download it for free today or visit our website. c-span now, your front row seat to washington, anytime, anywhere. >> washington journal continues. host: this is how you can participate. (202) 748-8001 republicans.

democrats (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. here's what to watch out for. 45 minut fm now at 9:30 the 2025 defense budt th the defense secretary a the joint chiefs of staff at the pentagon -- and the pentagon comptroller on c-span3, c-span now and the website at c-span.org. tomorrow the senate impeachment trial is expected of the homeland secur secretary mayorkas on wey. that is when managers will deliver the two articles of impeachment to the senate. a full tril proceed on the senate floor. if they make a vote to dismiss the charges order for the matter, see it all play out on wednesday.

c-span2 is how you can follow up. on thursday, the japanese prime minister will be in town for a joint meeting of congress in the house chamber and attend a state dinner. all of those things so you can stay close to the networks for that meeting at 11:00 on thursday. other things to watch out for, this is open. we will start with saul in new york on the democrats line. caller: good morning. i have two statements i want to make. these wars that are happening, if we keep allowing hatred to permeate through our societies, it will never go away. there is no solution to it. another thing is, i just want to tell the people what is going on with my life in this country because the media has artificial

intelligence that they are using against the public and they are ruining people's lives. they are stripping us of everything, dignity went out the window a long time ago. i just want the people to know what is going on. this is a bigger problem than what is happening in the middle east because if it is happening in america, it is going to happen. i don't think there will be a solution in the middle east if they cant solve the issues in our own country. thank you for taking my call. host: let's hear from david from massachusetts, republican line. caller: i'm talking about the war in ukraine. the problem of the funding of the war in ukraine needs to be resolved. members of congress on both

sides agreed to an intermediate level of funding by the government of the united states that is acceptable to persons concerned with this issue. this will enable congress to get onto other matters that need attention and lead to legislative efficiency and accomplishment. intrinsic in this matter is an evaluation of the importance of the funding compared to the funding of other policies. if there is any member of the public who thinks that this government is inadequate -- this

procedure would enable the public to fund the remaining -- the funds that are not appropriated by whatever level is funded by the government. host: david in massachusetts when it comes to ukraine funding. the guardian and other publications reporting that mike johnson has indicated that the house will take up the issue with ukraine funding as the chamber reconvenes after a recess. johnson is opposed to additional aid. some are pulling to oust the speaker. they will take the necessary steps to address supplemental funding which includes money for ukraine, israel and taiwan. the senate passed a $95 billion foreign aid package in january.

speaker johnson amended the proposal and told fox news on sunday that if we can talk to the other members and return, hopefully with some important innovations. watch how that plays out on the house side and monitor that by following our main channel on c-span. darrell in michigan, independent line. caller: good morning. thanks for letting me. i want to bring up the eclipse and another point of view. the previous caller said even some are embarrassed at the coincidence of the sun and moon are lining up. if we look back and looking the other direction, 2 billion years ago when the moon and the earth separated, the distance between

the two objects was 30,000 miles and it has expanded to one million miles to give us this precise unification of celestial objects to give us our eclipse. at the same time, mankind has evolved. when we saw the eclipse and some thought it was an evil omen. we have discovered the scientific reason today. i don't think there is a coincidence. i think it is a demonstration of god's magical engineering and design and the creation from the universe. host: status darrell in -- that

is darrell in michigan. axios reported that most guys have put ukraine on the floor. mike johnson thinks it is a reauthorizing of the surveillance act as republican's have say on how to change the law that allows government to spy on noncitizens abroad. conservatives are pushing for an amendment that would implement war in other climates saying that they have strayed from their origins and continually abused by state agencies to spy on americans despite a reform that needs to be amended to place restrictions on the fbi and create transparency through the fisa process. that was the republican of idaho. we will look to see if that plays out possibly this week on the house side as well. from texas, billy, democrats line. caller: good morning. i just want to say that america is the best nation on this

planet because we are a nation of god. we have proven that to people. despite what is going on in the world, there is so much evil going on. present on biden is doing a great job. kamala harris is doing a great job. the citizens are coming together and we make america the world leader because if we don't, evil will take off. i know god is real. i am a son of god. god will keep us on top as long as we believe in him and do the right things. we will go to other planets in the future because we will put people out there. god is explain that to me. i am a son of god and he tells me that we are doing things under his guidance. we cannot explain why people do crazy stuff. humans historically have done crazy stuff. even back to jesus. at the end of the day, god has america.

america's number one and we will control this world and we will be controlling the universe going forward. host: angie is next in tennessee, republican line. caller: my first question is i wonder why joe biden and the democrats are not pushing for a cease-fire in ukraine like they have been for israel. they have pushed for that in israel. host: ok. that was angie in tennessee. this is open forum. if you want to participate, (202) 748-8000 the number for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats and independents, (202) 748-8002. when it comes for the impeachment trial for mayorkas, a variety of things could play out on wednesday. stay close to that on c-span2. it was on the senate floor last night that several senators spoke out on the issue.

one of them, the senator from louisiana, republican senator kennedy talking about the article of impeachment and what should be done about them. here is john kennedy from yesterday. [video clip] >> my democrat colleagues in the senate today may be about to make some new history in this room. apparently they think it is a brave new world and they want to set a dangerous new precedent. for the very first time senate democrats are seeking to table, maybe even dismiss an impeachment of a sitting cabinet official without even holding a trial. they are summoning spirits they will not be able to control. please, my colleagues, don't do it. i fear though that senate democrats will try to take the articles of impeachment that our

colleagues and the united states house of representatives thoughtfully crafted and passed with a majority vote and toss them into the trash without hearing from either side. they don't want to list the house impeachment managers make their case. they don't want to let secretary mayorkas make his case. they just want to ignore the evidence and sweep it under the rug and move on and that is wrong. the senate has never in its history tabled an impeachment. never. in the more than 200 years that this body has existed, the house of representatives has impeached an official 21 times and we have never once tabled the impeachment, not once.

now senator schumer may also try to dismiss these charges instead of tabling them. that has never been done before either. host: again, that was from yesterday. if you want to see more of the statements from the senators on the pending impeachment trial for mayorkas, you can go to our website at c-span.org. some of those are archived for a short time on our app. when it comes to the topic of books, there is a new list out. this is a wall street journal saying the nobel prize winner's debut novel is among the most targeted books in addition with another biographical novel is the most challenged library book according to a report that was

released monday by the american library association. "this book is gay" came in third. there were 4200 different titles that were banned from schools and libraries last year. that is the highest level documented by the group and the story adds that by comparison, the number of book titles challenged annually from 2000 to 2020 was fairly stable and never extended 400 targets -- exceeded 400 targets. that is on the domestic front. on the national front, janet yellen finishing up a trip to china in which she talks about among other things, trade policy and import policy from china to the united states and how it could impact the u.s. and other parts of the world. she expressed some of those concerns about that trade policy

yesterday in a speech in china. here is a portion of it. [video clip] >> i am worried about how china's enduring macroeconomic imbalances, namely, it's weak household consumptions and business overinvestment aggravated by large-scale government support in specific industrial sectors will lead to significant risk to workers and businesses in united states and the rest of the world. china has long had excess savings but investment in the real estate sector and government-funded infrastructure has interrupted much of it. now we are seeing an increase in business investment in a number of new industries targeted by the prc's industrial policy and that includes electric vehicles, lithium-ion batteries and solar.

china is now simply too large for the rest of the world to absorb this enormous capacity. actions taken by the prc today can shift world prices. the global -- when the global market is flooded by artificially cheap chinese products, the viability of american and other firms is put into question. host: that was treasury secretary janet yellen. we will hear from rick from boston, democrats line. good morning. caller: can you hear me? host: go ahead. can you get closer to your phone please? caller: can you hear me now? host: it is still a little low. can you try one more time? caller: can you hear me?

host: go ahead. i apologize, you are coming in faint. we will put you on hold and see if you can improve the signal and we will try you again. again, open forum is available. (202) 748-8001, republicans. (202) 748-8000, democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. we are on the topic of ukraine, senator schumer, the majority leader's speech on the senate floor yesterday encouraging his colleagues to continue support of ukraine when it comes to funding. here is part of the plea made by schumer. [video clip] >> is the congress goes back into session, i urge republicans

and snap -- to snap out of their paralysis. the situation in ukraine is desperate. speaker johnson has sat on his hands for 55 days as the national security supplemental has collected dust. that is 55 days of america standing on the sidelines while our friends in ukraine die on the battlefield with no support. 55 days of our european allies wondering when the u.s. will step up. with each passing day ukraine continues to run out of ammo, continues to run out of soldiers and run out of hope to expel the russians from their borders. the biggest reason ukraine is losing the war is because the hard right in congress has paralyzed the united states from acting. that's it. that's the reason. speaker johnson has to decide whether or not he will do the right thing for ukraine, america and for democracy or if he will allow maga republicans to hand

vladimir putin a victory. host: senator schumer from yesterday. terri in illinois, democrat line. caller: it is interesting from secretary janet yellen. the comment that she made, i think china is poised to try to take over our universe. it is a reflection we should all ponder. it is very important that we unify. divided, we will fall. host: what attitude should we take toward china generally? caller: china has been aggressive in all kinds of ways.

now this so-called capitalist society needs to make sure all americans are included in this capitalist society. that is one of the issues. i will include everybody. host: that was terri in illinois. the hill reporting this morning, marjorie taylor greene keeping a fresh -- he being a fresh set of criticism on speaker johnson, laying out a list of grievances against the louisiana republican and explain her decision to follow a motion to oust him. marjorie taylor greene is threatening to force a vote to remove johnson and late into the speaker for a litany of reasons, arguing that he is not properly serving the gop conference.

"i will not tolerate mike johnson serving the democrats and helping them achieve their policies that are destroying our country. he is throwing our own razor thin majority into chaos and not serving his own gop constituents that elected him." this will be from russell in washington, d.c., republican line. caller: hi. i wanted to talk about illegal immigration but not here in the united states proper but on the island of guam which is a u.s. territory. the island of guam is being, if you will allow the use of the term, invaded by chinese nationals. they are all men of military age , no families, no women and children, from china. what is important about that is the fact that there is a

military facility on guam, a facility to the united states, called the guam magazine. the guam magazine is the repository for naval ordinance that the u.s. navy uses to replenish a specific fleet. what is important about that is if anything happens in the south pacific involving taiwan or anything else for that matter, we may be involved in a problem trying to provide ordinance to our ships in a specific fleet because we are being taken on the island of guam. host: russell finishing out this open forum. thank you to all who participated.

with the election in november, concerns about election security. our guest joining us is nick penniman with the group issue one talking about his own concerns about security of elections this november. we will have that conversation when washington journal continues. >> do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> saturday watch american history tv's "congress investigates" as weeks were major investigations of our country's history by the u.s. house and senate. each week we will tell these stories and see historic footage from those periods and examine the legacy of key congressional

hearings. the senate committee led by tennessee democratic senator kefauver examined organized crime in interstate commerce in the early 1950's. hearings included key figures including crime boss frank costello resulting in the fbi ganizing the crime syndicate and the passing of the corrupt organizations act of 1970. watch saturday's on c-span2. >> the c-span book show podcast makes it easy for you to listen to all of c-span's podcasts in one place. discover new authors and ideas. we make it more convenient for you to listen to new episodes, read books by critically appoint authors, current events and culture. afterwards, book notes plus and q&a.

listen to the c-span bookshelf podcast feed today. find all of our podcasts on the free c-span now app or wherever you get your podcasts and on our website,n. cg/podcasts. >> if you ever miss any c-span coverage, find it any online at c-span.org. videos of key hearings, debates and other events feature markers that guide you to interesting highlights. these points of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen. this timeline tool makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. spend a few minutes on-span's points of interest. >> the house will be in order. >> this year c-span 45 years of governing congress like no

other. since 1979 we have been your source for capitol hill, providing balanced coverage of government, taking you to where the policies are debated and decided with the support of america's cable company. c-span, 45 years and counting, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: this is nick penniman from issue one. what is the organization's purpose? guest: it is a bipartisan organization in washington, d.c. it is about election security, social media reform and information, and congressional reform. we have three primary programs. a lot of people say nonpartisan when they talk about organizations. we are not weathered to any

party but we are bipartisan because we work with both parties on trying to improve democracy. host: when it comes to funding and sourcing, where does it come from? guest: mostly foundations. the packard foundation. large american foundations. some individual donors, republicans and democrats. a variety of people are interested in improving democracy. host: election security. what got you interested in that as a group? guest: we were deeply concerned about five years ago about the incredible doubt that people started having in the outcomes of our elections. it is something i had never seen before. i am 53 years old. like you, for most of my life, we would have elections, they would go well enough and people would accept the results. a lot of attention started getting focused on the nitty-gritty aspects of

elections and conspiracy theories starting emerging that created doubt in elections and tension too. we feel that in a democracy the most basic thing we do is elections. we have to continue to not just get that right, but also instill confidence in people that it is done right. host: when you talk about election security integrity, what does that mean? guest: safe and secure elections that are administered well and have clear and definitive results for people. host: do you think as far as this coming election, what do you think is the ability to achieve that goal? guest: 100%. we have this remarkable election infrastructure in america. we have 8000 jurisdictions in america, highly decentralized. every state has its own rules

and even each precinct has its own processes. the system runs well. it runs securely. here's the problem. the problem is, number one, it is held together by duct tape. it is underfunded. we have underfunded our election infrastructure and we need to do a better job of creating first-class election infrastructure. number two, the people who do the work are under incredible stress and pressure. it is not a five day, nine to five job. it is a seven job for most of them. because of the conspiracies that have emerged, they are also under death threats. they have had threats to their families, the kind of stuff that your average election demonstrator should not have. we have to get more funding into elections in this country. we need to create first-class election infrastructure in america.

we have to respect and take care of the people who do the work. host: the recent spending package that was approved by congress, $55 million for election security, what do you think of the figure and what does that money do? guest: that's not enough at all. we worked with a lot of secretaries of state to come up with a number that they felt with the -- that they felt would be reasonable and it was $400 million. half $1 billion was what was needed for this year to improve election security. $55 million is not adequate. at some point, congress has to wake up and realize that this is their elections too. they are elected on these same ballots. what we need them to do is realize that they can play a critical role in improving this critical infrastructure in this country. half $1 billion sounds like a lot.

in the context of a $4.7 trillion annual budget, it is not a lot of money. the national budget this year is $25 million. even if it were to happen for elections, that is 1/150. it is not a lot of money in the context of our federal budget but it would mean the learn to minister our elections. host: our guest on election security, (202) 748-8001 republicans. (202) 748-8000, democrats. (202) 748-8002, independents. election workers, (202) 748-8003 is the number to call. as you see it right now, when it comes to security, where are the deficiencies? guest: cyber is our number one

control -- number one concern. we have entities who want to disrupt it. a single failure of machinery in a single precinct can create a national panic. even one successful breach could disrupt the entire process. we have election administrators around the country who have said that we need to improve our cyber but we don't have the money to do it. cyber is number one for me. number two, i will love a paper trail for every vote in america. 80% have paper trail that we should have paper trails for every vote in america. number three, especially for those who are inclined to conspiracies, what we hear from our administrators in every precinct is that they would love to install security cameras not

just in voting places but also in the warehouses where the voting equipment is kept. it is a great piece of transparency that would calm a lot of nerves. host: go back to the election from five years ago that we talked about. would you say now that it was administered fairly? where there issues about how some states administered? a lot of states were trailing because of covid at the time. guest: which is part of what germinated a lot of the conspiracy. all of a sudden, they are allowing mail-in votes to come in longer. that created paranoia which bread conspiracy theories. there were 60 law foods -- 60 lawsuits filed by the trump campaign against the outcomes of the 2020 election. all of those 60 lawsuits never

even made his trial -- never even made it to trial for lack of credible evidence. a bunch of those were heard by judges who were appointed by trump himself. the only one thing that occurred in the 2020 election is that at one point the state of pennsylvania put aside some of the mail-in vote that had came late with the notion that if the vote was close enough that those votes that had been put aside would make a difference, then we would figure out a way to adjudicate them. by such a march in pennsylvania, those votes were not necessary -- by such a margin in pennsylvania among those votes were not necessary. of the institutions that figure out how to sort through, the courts is one of our best. everything pivots on the court of law. the fact that 50 lawsuits were

filed and there was enough credible lawsuits says a lot to me. host: do you think the system in terms of mail-in voting and early voting has improved? guest: absolutely. there is more voter id. 36 states now do voter id. i'd love to see more voter id. there is better cyber but there are a lot of states lagging behind. a lot of states are improving or implementing additional audits. after the voting occurs, they take a random sampling of votes. they make sure that those are comports with what the machine said they were. the additional things that haven't heard -- that have occurred have further improved our election infrastructure. host: our first call for you is from ian from florida on the independent line. caller: good morning.

i want to thank c-span for their hard work and for having me on the air. i just had one quick question. i remember when conspiracy theories used to be a fun thing to talk about with friends like sasquatch or bigfoot. not when it was a central selling point of one of our largest political parties. i am wondering why it got to this point and how it happened. guest: listen, i don't agree with your last point. i don't think it the central selling point. there are groups in this country on the right and the left who are inclined to believe in conspiracies about the government. when it comes to elections in this country, listen, the environment in america, the information environment has been deeply radicalized by social

media. we have handed everyone in the world who can own a cell phone the ability to become their own broadcaster, their own publisher. when you do that, you create a chaos of noise and also you enable people who want to believe those things the ability to find each other and connect and bolster each other and grab little pieces of information that they believe supports their conspiracy, their idea and they get fired up about it. in the world i grew up in where we had a handful of newspapers and our job was to sort fact from fiction and take opinions and print responsible opinions that were fact-checked, that worked -- that were not defamatory -- we have

radicalized the conversation in this country and we have to bring it back and center it around facts. host: new jersey, republican line. caller: hi pedro. hi mr. penniman. i would like to ask him what he thinks about what happened with georgia's presidential election and when the lights suddenly went out and all the ladies came in with suitcases. i imagine they were filled with votes for biden. i want to know what his comment on that is. guest: again, this is a piece of information that has not been verified by the election officials themselves. the little pieces of information get picked up on social media and they get spun into larger stores and then people get it into their heads. you have an georgia brad

raffensperger who is the head of elections in georgia. the next person down is also a conservative republican. both of them voted for trump. they oversee the elections in that state. there were plenty of audits done in georgia because it was such a contentious state in 2020 and none of those audits came up negative, meaning none of them came up with the notion that there was any kind of fraud. host: richard in georgia, democrats line. caller: good morning. i am a poll worker. i can tell you, i have seen how the machines work, i process them in and out and all of the votes are counted with a paper ballot as backup. my thought is that the story of voter fraud, they need to look

at places like what happened in north carolina where there was voter fraud. also the state of colorado has one of the best absentee ballot rates of counting votes legally and securely in the all of their votes were counted, 70 something million for trump. 81 million for biden. people have to realize that the machines and that other company, those machines are secure and they are not tied to a modem. host: i have no idea -- guest: i have no idea what he was talking about. i can tell you this, mail-in ballots, there could be voter fraud. the washington post and an independent institute did a huge

study of 14 million mail-in ballots in the 2020 election and concluded that maybe 372 of them could have been compromised, out of 14 million. do some people try to vote fraudulently? yes. do some people try to mail in a ballad of a family member who passed away -- the ballot of a family member who passed away? yes. out of 14 million votes, if 370 of them are fraudulent, that is not enough to swing an election and not enough to justify the conspiracy theories. by the way, thank you for being an election worker. you guys do god's work, the everyday work of american democracy. host: when you hear artificial intelligence, what is your largest concern when it comes to elections? guest: your voters need to be

really aware of this, your viewers. there is going to be a significant attempt by our adversaries to suppress and disrupt the voting in this country this year using artificial intelligence. what we expect to see, the main form in terms of a suppression, -- in terms of others suppression, will be robo calls. it will be much more sophisticated. here is what will happen. if you are a member of a methodist church in phoenix, the artificial intelligence will see that you are a member of that church and will even grab audio from the pastor of your church. it will artificially generate the pastor's voice and you will get either a robo call or some kind of message on your facebook

saying, it's pastor john. i want you to know that the state of arizona has extended voting so if you are too busy on tuesday to vote, don't bother. you can do that on wednesday and thursday. it can be that sophisticated. it is terrifying. we will see a lot of attempts to mislead people about time, place and manner of voting, through robo calls, robo text messaging, tiktok, you name it. it will be highly host: what do you base that on because what if someone at home says that is a conspiracy. ? -- a conspiracy three? guest: is a conspiracy by the russians and iranians to do this. the agency inside the department of homeland security has heard

about this. it is a conspiracy to disrupt this election and try to impute it and make it look quickly live in a thick democracy -- fake democracy. host: the chief cyber guy talked about concerns that have and how they are watching for ai use. i want to please description and get your response to it. [video clip] >> we have tried to educate the poll workers that ai is here and give them a framework of how we think these threats are going to potentially affect them and provide mitigating guidance. a lot of those end up being a mixture of educational and cybersecurity. making sure you're cyber and digital doors are locked, not making yourself vulnerable. making sure you cannot be targeted through artificial

intelligence. we don't think it is a new one, but it is going to be a little faster so we will take it from there. it is an agency part of the election landscape coming into november. host: it is a threat but none sisterly anyone, he talks about. guest: it is not a new threat, it is a threat that has been put on turbo boost by generative ai. have they been doing this on any past? of course. are they doing this better and smarter because of ai? definitely. what he mentioned is right but he did not mention the massive disinformation campaigns wants to get people to vote or to convince them that voting is compromised. host: a group this year said developments in use of ai, officials are mitigated -- are

prepared to mitigate these effects. they aredy mother with fishing -- many of the best mitigation measures for generative ai enhanced threats are cybersecurity, best practices recommended for use. -- for years. what do you think of that? guest: true, but that does not deal with the voter side of it. if you are saying deepfake videos sake you don't have to vote on tuesday because it has been extended, it doesn't deal with that. we are crating a communications hub of 20 to 30 organizations that are helping communicate to voters where, wind, and how to vote and pushing them to official sources of information. we are deeply concerned about people misleading people how to

vote. host: how do you think -- guest: i don't think we are very good at it. especially if it is audio or video. people are inclined to believe the stuff that is before them. we get it. you are flipping through facebook or whatever, you are going to be 60 messages in three minutes. one of them is don't bother voting tomorrow because you can vote wednesday and thursday. that person looks official or looks like my secretary of state or my pastor. people need to slow down, especially when it comes to where, when, and how to vote and they need to go to those sources. host: nick penniman joining us. let's hear from melissa in iowa. caller: thank you for taking my call.

please don't hang up on me. i have a couple of things to say and a question. when the lady was talking about the video, that is a video everyone has seen. that was not made up, those individuals bringing boxes out from under the table, that is something that everyone has seen. please don't disregard what she has seen and don't say she needs to ignore her eyes because her eyes told her the truth. you talk about ballot integrity, how about in connecticut in the last election? they had to redo it because there was ballot stuffing. we never had issues with voting or anything until all of this stuff gets nailed to everyone -- everybody. everybody knows election day is on one day. you vote on that day. your vote counts, you vote that

day. if you have all of these votes coming in on papers from three weeks out or a month out for a week behind, nobody knows what is going on. that is too much fraud. for you to say there is no such fraud when that gentleman was a poll worker and explained their issues and you tell him he doesn't know what he is talking about, you are the issue. when you want to say we have other governments in our elections, that is because we do the same thing to them. we want to dictate who is president or prime minister of another country. host: you put a lot out for the guest. guest: what the georgia poll worker called in and said there was fraud in north carolina, all i said was i didn't know anything about that. i was not discrediting what he does and he talked about how he

believes the systems in place in georgia. number two, in terms of mail in ballots, this was a process that was pioneered by republicans at the state level years ago because they thought it would improve voter turnout, especially among older americans who have a problem getting to the polls. it has also been used by our military. there have been secured he measures put in place with mail in ballots including barcodes that track them, including signature verification, and other things that make a voting by mail is secure from voting -- form of voting. the washington post and an institute that studies the stuff look at mail in votes and said that 370 of them were problematic.

that is a very small percentage. that is what i know. >> -- host: the national council of state legislature -- it is nothing new as far as this past election was concerned. >> it has been around since the 1700s. it has been in states pioneered by republicans. host: let's hear from bob in atlanta. good morning. republican line. caller: elections are very important in this country and you need to understand that. all of this mail in stuff come here in georgia, there are plenty of shenanigans that go on. it is so ported to keep this country from getting more and more polarized. however you try and get that soap up -- so that you have to

show up to vote. i was in the military and it may be okay for military people overseas. i agree with previous callers that we need to have people to show up to vote. if you are so old or invalid that you cannot do that, that is okay with me if you don't vote. that means you may not know the issues. the election is so important that we have to find a way to make it so you don't get ballot harvesting. nobody is enforcing those laws anymore. we have a lot to society when it comes to stuff like that -- lawless satiety -- lawless society when it comes to the point that. the only way to know the election is honest and fair is to stop this mail in stuff that leads to organizations to vote

harvest. host: -- guest: i am not in charge of the elections, i just advocate for elections in this country and who tries to reduce the amount of disinformation around elections. that's what i do. number two, in georgia, brad raffensperger is the head of elections, a conservative republican. i have met him many times, he is a law & order person. the number two person in georgia is a conservative republican, a law & order person. i trust those administrators and i trust the thousands of people in georgia who work underneath them. i also trusty processes in place in georgia -- trust the processes they put in place in georgia around audit and observers. i feel like we have been talking about georgia since 2020.

if you go back and look at the people who are doing it at all of the analyses and studies that have been done, look at the lawsuit that fox news had to settle with dominion for almost $800 million because fox news was misreporting what was going on in georgia, i think this conversation has been had many ways. >> wen yu here -- host: when you hear the term ballot harvesting, what goes through your mind? guest: that is groups of people saying vote by mail. give me your ballot and we will handle those ballots in in bunches. all of the ballots handed in our still legitimate balance. they have the signatures, all the checks and balances on those ballots. they are just being handed in all at once. do i think it the best thing to do?

no, is probably better if people put their ballot in the mail. when things are headed in in bulk, it creates conspiracies. would it be better if they mail them in individually? absolutely. host: mike from new jersey, democratic line. caller: thank you for taking my call. a couple of quick things. can i thank the screeners who screen the calls on c-span every morning? they do a great job and they are kind and hear what we have to say. people complain about no balance in your programming. i don't understand that, i watch it every morning. there are plenty of times i am furious after hearing some of the people that have an opinion different than mine. they want caller: something about people not being able to

get to the polls because of the inability of their physically, that explains that situation. my one question is, why do people vote illegally when the risk of a reward is so small and the penalties could be so severe? i would like to ask the question about do you think the federal government should take over all voting for all states? i don't think it is constitutionally possible but maybe there should be a standard for all voting throughout all of these dates. that might solve some of the problems. we look forward to the answer. host: click you for the call. -- thank you for the call. i agree about the screeners. guest: i agree. there are clashes of opinions and stuff like that but it is fantastic you create this incredible dialogue and debate.

you do a great job. when it comes to people who try to illegally vote, i agree with you. that is why it is rare, prosecutions come swiftly and you can spend time in jail if you do it. there were prosecutions every year. in 2020 of people who voted illegally. they sent in a ballot when that fellow member passed away, those people were found and they were prosecuted. i think the viewer should know that happens and there are a lot of investigations on a regular basis by law enforcement. number two, when it comes to devoting situation in america -- the voting situation in america, i think the decentralized system we have works. the constitution posits that

states are in charge of the voting processes. the federal government can provide greater funding so the states have more money to continually upgrade their systems. this occurs almost everywhere in america. every bridge built in america is built by local money come state money, and federal money. schools have some level of federal funding. the electrical grid. all of these things the federal government supports because they are seen as critical infrastructure. our elections are critical infrastructure too. they are critical for structure and we need congress to step up to the plate and start treating them as such. for all the folks who have conspiratorial ideas, the one thing that can solve that is a lot more funding for our elections because you are going to get a paper trail on every vote in america.

you get live streaming video in every warehouse in america. you get great cyber, etc. that is what we need at this point. we need more members of congress to step up to the plate and make it happen. host: this is monte in texas, independent line. caller: i would like to graduate mr. nick penniman but also make them aware the cognitive dissonance he is dealing with from a lot of these callers is an emotionally fueled confirmation bias. these are the same people making threats to elected officials which are causing them to support a candidate who is the former president who will to this day tell you mike pence had some ability to influence the electoral count. we although that is false -- we all know that is false.

sean spicer actually disavowed this but it is to the common belief out there thanks to the internet and people's emotionally driven need for this candidate. in 2008, i voted in texas as a write in candidate which i have always done. i took a photograph of my vote with my phone camera and i was informed by a poll worker if i did that i would be breaking the law and have to be arrested. this was a write in in texas. paperless voting. how can the conservatives claim to be interested in election security when they ran paperless machines for years? it is the amount of emotional fueled rage that only runs the skin deep. this is what they want to believe and is a danger to our

society. trump claimed that crews cheated in the iowa caucus. he saw that he could gain traction during that. even though they were guilty of making robo calls against herman cain. host: i think you got the point across. guest: i keep going back to the 60 lessons the trump campaign filed in the 2020 election to try to shut down certain votes. 60 lawsuits, including filed with trump appointed judges, george w. bush appointed judges, not a single one ever presented enough evidence for the court to take it to trial. period. that is the system we have. we have a judicial system that pivots on evidence, whether it is a murder trial, tax fraud trial, a burglary, or the

election would it pivots on evidence. there is not enough evidence presented for judges to even take a case to trial. there was a case filed by the state of texas to throw out the votes in four swing states on behalf of biden. it went to the supreme court. they were able to hear that for lack of evidence. this is a pretty critical moment for us as a country. if we are a country that believes in evidence and facts and we base our judgment on those, we have to to trust institutions like the courts

that deal with soaring through evidence for a living. in this case, there was not enough to hear a trial. that gives me confidence. i hope it will give other people confidence. host: there was the passage of the electoral count act in 2022. remind people what that was and how that could impact this year's count. guest: the law around how congress interfaces with the election was written in the 19th century and was in desperate need of updates because there was ambiguity in it. an update occurred, my organization worked heavily on that. we got that passed about a year and a half ago. it clarified that the vice president of the u.s. does not have the right to turn back votes. just that one alone, imagine if the founders had put that in place where the vice president,

the guy or woman serving the president had the ability on the wing to say he or she didn't like certain electoral votes and turn it back. it makes absolutely no sense. we clarify that and said that the vice president cannot turn back votes. and also did some things around pushing deadlines to give greater room encased or lawsuits . or people are trying to come up the works. it gave the electoral college more time to do what they do. it raised the threshold for congress to be able to dispute -- to make it harder for them to rebel against electoral college. host: cindy in washington state. independent.

caller: i want to clarify what your guest said in regard to mail in ballots. that republican started in the 1800s. mail in ballots and absentee ballots are different things. absentee ballots started for people absent -- ballots started for people in the military not able to get to the voting booth. mail in ballots get mailed to every household in our state, anyway. i have gotten multiple but -- multiple ballots. absentee ballots you have to apply for, prove who you are, that you are a registered voter, and then your vote gets counted. mail in abbott's are too fallible and should not be used. host: i didn't say that mail in

ballots started in the 1800s, i said they started with the military going back to the beginning of the republic so that military people abroad could vote. number two, when it comes to the mail in ballots, i heard of people who received multiple mail in ballots. you can only send one in. there might be three ballots sitting in your mailbox but you can only send one in. everyone one of them has a barcode. 20 send that in, that is your registered vote -- once you send one in, that is your victory vote. you can send more in but then you are engaged in voter fraud. once you have endorsed a check and you send it into the bank, they can only cash that check once. they are not going to cash it a second or third time. this system will catch people if they have multiple mail in ballots in their name.

they will prosecute them for doing so. host: alabama super tuesday talked about voter role update -- upkeep. [video clip] >> we have legislation that makes it illegal for any tabulated to be connected to the internet. state law requires the use of paper ballots in all elections. each voter must verify their identity with photo identity at his or her voting place. if a voter does not have a valid voter id, my office will send someone to the location of their choice, even their home, to issue them a voter id. proper maintenance is essential and instilling confidence on elections. this year with the help of a dedicated team at the secretary of state established the alabama voter integrity base. we have been approved to crosscheck our voter file with the national debt index

maintained by the social security administration so when an alabama voter dies in another state, we are able to identify and remove that individual from our voter file. quickly removing it assist albanian not only -- alabamian helps -- federal regulations make it more difficult than it should be for states to access this important information. host: a lot of levels there. guest: i love all of it. i love the paper trails, the voter ids, and i love the integrity of the voter roles to make sure they are as up-to-date as possible. one thing we need this country is some kind of federally sponsored collaboration so states can take out duplicates

of their voter files. if someone dies the friday before election in another state but they are an alabama voter, alabama knows that. there was a thing called eric, electronic registration, that encouraged states collaborate. a number of states have pulled out of that for conspiratorial reasons. brad raffensperger and other republicans said this works, let's not pull out, but they pulled out of it. to help states collaborate on voter rolls, let's move forward quickly with that. host: from oregon, this is mike, independent line. caller: i love you, pedro. you are not my favorite host, but i love you. keep trying.

have you looked into the 2000 election? i was in florida. the governor of the state was the son of the president and his brother -- the discrepancies held of the election like two months? i was listening to am radio all over the state and there were people talking about also the stuff. the fact that the judges had to step in and say stop, we are not going to look any deeper. the fact that the same out like cronies are still active in this process. right on. host: okay. guest: listen. in the last five years, i have met 100 election workers in this

country from secretaries of state all the way down to local cooks. -- local clerks. they are good people, your mom succumbed sisters, daughters, 80% of election workers in america are women. these are your neighbors. these are people who work with -- who work really hard with equipment that needs to be updated but they keep it running because they don't have the money to buy new equipment. they work really long hours. they work under incredible pressure, especially since the 2020 election. a lot of them have gotten death threats. a colleague of my was talking to an election worker in virginia. he said she asked him the one thing he needs to do to recruit more election workers and he said a ballistic wall. a bulletproof wall.

people are afraid to come to work. that is the environment they are dealing with. it is fueled by these conspiracies and the people who take up those conspiracies and for some reason feel totally privileged and free to threaten these people, these moms and daughters and aunts. it has got to stop in this country. these are honest americans. we have dozens of -- to ensure the quality and integrity of the vote and we have a court system in case anyone has any doubt about the degree of the votes, they can go to the court and file a lawsuit. if there is credible evidence, they will go to trial. that is the way our system works. i think we need to have much

more respect for the people who do it and we need to get them more resources so they can do it even better. host: if the money were to come through tomorrow, what is the best first practice or couple of steps states can take to ensure better security. guest: paper trail for every ballot in america would be great. it would be great to get to 100%. and all of those cyber patches. software and cybersecurity stuff. if we get even one violation, it will throw everyone. it will create an international crisis. we should make sure in america, of all places, the torchbearer of modern democracy, such a proud country that has pioneered this version of democracy, we should have completely up-to-date cybersecurity and software on every machine.

i once was invited by the australian embassy to come witness their voting processes. it is the difference between a tesla and a 1980's ford. australia has these brand-new, beautiful machines. it is all super centralized. everything is completely updated. it is a pretty remarkable system compared to what we've got here in america, and that is not what it should be. we should be first class in america, first class election infrastructure, because we are the current beacon of democracy. let's get there, but it will take funding to do it. host: i suppose social media has an aspect in what we are talking about, the information that comes about. what role do social media companies have at this point, particularly coming up? guest: i wish they had a bigger role. here is the problem. a lot of these social media companies do not take integrity of information very seriously. we have seen with almost all of them a call back on their efforts to help create better information about the elections,

specifically where, when, and how to vote. we have not seen enough participation or collaboration from the social media companies in that endeavor at this point. guest: why is that, do you think? guest: i think for all kinds of reasons. it is not for lack of funding. facebook, meta last year made $100 billion in profit. 100 billion dollars. they are not lacking money by any means. what they are lacking is the willpower to do it. i think there is this sense with these social media companies that it is just all content. it is just all content and people need to sort through it. that is fine when it comes to your kid's soccer game or your political opinion about something, but when it comes to something as serious as where, when, and how to vote, they need

to step up to the plate more than they do and take it seriously. host: nick penniman is with the group issue one. if you want to find out more about the website and the organization, the website is issueone.org. if you want to see more as far as the information is concerned. one more question about social media. we have seen a lot of these heads come up to congress, get questioned about things including election security and things like that. why do you think that has held no sway? guest: i think it is happening. what we have seen with congress, the joke was that five years ago senators didn't even know how to turn on their cell phones. that is not true anymore. they have gotten tuned into this and they understand these out-of-control social media companies need to be regulated. let me give you one simple example. again, fox news had to settle a defamation lawsuit with dominion voting systems to the tune of almost $800 million because they continually broadcast false

information about dominion voting in the georgia election. fox on a nightly basis reaches 5 million, 6 million viewers. a study was done. there were 49 million tweets and retweets on twitter about dominion, also defaming dominion, so 10 times as much of your traffic on twitter, and yet twitter walks totally free because these companies have zero responsibility for defamation laws. with a 1996 telecom act, they were given total immunity from libel and defamation law, and other laws, too. as a result, twitter can profit off of 50 million defamatory statements and retweets about dominion, while fox actually has to pay. forcing the social media companies to play by the same rules as media companies have to play by, it is one