christmas eve after the christmas holidays on january 12 , 1972, mrs. atena , vyacheslav's wife, came to me and said that it is very difficult to hide those folders in the room, because there are very few hiding places in the apartment, everything is possible there and she says , you can have it in the village or in the barn or in the pantry or all of them. or to hide it in the straw so that no thief would find anything, and she handed me this folder, in the evening when i arrived, i came from lviv to the village, took it and went to bed, everyone had already gone to sleep, in the middle of our little room, a little bed, in which the three-year-old solomia sleeps and a couple of months, the child is already straw.

already fell asleep, and i pulled out that folder from under the pillow, and started looking through some materials, and just like that, i fell asleep, and i stuffed it back under the pillow, and i already began to doze off , as if i had a dream that i was waiting for houses are broken into, windows and doors are banging, i instantly woke up, woke up, well, i wasn’t asleep yet, but that’s how i imagined the situation, and what will happen... if tomorrow, where is the guarantee that they won’t be there, and that’s it, and i got up, took out the folder and thought, well, where should i run , somewhere outside, to the storeroom, cut hair and so on further, and next to it was a cot, and i stuffed this folder under the mattress of a straw cot, well, such a providence of god that pushed me to that, somewhere around 5 o'clock in the morning, there was a rumbling in... windows and doors

, six chekists burst into the house, led by my boss since 1965 is oleksandr oleksandrovich shumeiko, the head of the fifth department for the fight against nationalist dissidents, and so on. all of them, as my mother tells me , turn the house upside down, he is standing in my room where i have my bed, but i already looked there myself . the bed all and so leaned on the railing of that bed and looks at the child, i can’t stand it, i’m thinking, what should i do , i’m thinking, come on, i’ll say it, oleksandr oleksandrovich, well, what are you waiting for, wake up the child, maybe she wrote some self-published book somewhere in those clothes she has her own, she hid it or something, i say, what is it to you?

"wake up the child, put him on this bed and so on, that is, i say with such indignation, he began to lose his temper, well, no, we are not human at all or something, he moved away from the bed, that's all, the straw is sleeping, i after even to this day, i remember when i see slovmia, i say: "my savior, you saved me from at least 10 years, mordovian camps, and so, there were many such cases that were etched in my memory, there was one more very interesting case, but it was in 1965, in a few more months, i must say this, because i never said it anywhere, on the eve of the arrests in 1965 , mykhailo goren gave me a book, somewhere he, i don't know, someone gave it to him as a memory to figures of ukrainian culture tortured by the bolsheviks. moscow, and he gave

me this book, i am still a university student, faculty of journalism, says slavka, if you can rephotograph this book, it’s necessary, and i, such a friend of mine, is the only one in the group of 25 students from the smallest faculty, vasyl gushta, unfortunately he is not there, and we are with him in the photo laboratory next to the dean’s office, whole sat all day, taking pictures of this book. and i, when already, that means, for the second time, for the second time, when i already printed from this film, well , the technology is appropriate there and so on, and i leave, i leave lviv university, my boss is waiting for me at the main entrance, shumeiko oleksandr oleksandrovych, when you say boss, what... do you mean

, that is, well, that is, the person who supervises you, who constantly had these conversations with us, preventive, interrogations, and so on and so yes, and he is already waiting for you , he is waiting for me everything. and i go out, but those photos are still wet, the developed photos, you see, i stuffed them in a cellophane bag and stuffed them, well, i’m a weightlifter, my chest is high, i’m hungry , so i could fit a few kilograms in here, so to speak, on my stomach, this strapped , and i spent three hours in his office in the lviv office. kgb with that load, with this bomb that i have, so to speak, hiding on it. that's what it means, that's what the words of vyacheslav chornovol mean: "walking on the edge of a knife." i'm sorry, before we continue, i will quote to you that when

a criminal case was actually opened against the ukrainian herald, according to the kgb employees, the magazine posed a threat to the friendship of the soviet peoples, the national ones. politics of the ussr, the state social order, because it could raise doubts about the possibility of building communism, weaken the authority of the soviet country on international arena, we have now come to a very interesting moment, how these films, which you so, so hard to print, took pictures of, how they got to the west, where they were printed directly in the magazine, well, it was... difficult, but it was established, to lviv and to kyiv very often, sometimes several times a month the editor-in-chief of the dukla magazine, which was published in slovakia in bratislava, came, and pavlo was in contact with the union

of writers, as the last name is pavlo, pavlo murashko, that is from lviv, in lviv union union of writers of ukraine and to kyiv, so we met with pavel, he took this microfilm in the car, he drove across the border through chop to ukraine, and hiding this miniature film in the car was not a problem, according to the reports from bratislava through it was easier for foreign journalists. first to paris, to the shevchenko society, to transmit, and from there to baltimore to osip zinkevich, and there osip was already deciphering the film, and it was published, the herald

was already published as a book, and immediately went to the radio freedom, as i said later, has been translated into several languages, and the world is already a million. the audience , and it was for the union, it was scarier than an atomic bomb, there was a meeting, it was evgeny marchuk, when he was with me on the fifth channel in the program, he told me when i asked him about the criminal case under the code name bloc, and how does he, does he know about the ukrainian herald, he says, let me explain that evgeny kyrylovych marchuk is also a ukrainian politician who was, who was... and the minister of defense, headed the nsdc, but he also worked, also headed the general of the kgb in soviet times, the first head of the security service of ukraine, the head of the security service , it is very important, and it is equally important to say that this kgb operation, the bloc, this is actually, this

was the consequence of this operation were the arrests of 1972, actually this arrested kolyada , with whom we started a conversation and part of this large development. now i want us to listen to osyp zinkevich, since we started talking about the publisher and later head of the smolop publishing house, osyp zinkevich, this is what he says about chornovol and the ukrainian herald. if it weren't for chornovil, if it weren't for the disaster, later heralds, i very much doubt who would have proclaimed the independence of ukraine. so already the information about the events, about the arrests , about the repressions, about the russifications, went not there in several tens of copies of the newsletters, but it was already distributed to millions of listeners of the radio liberty voice of america, some of it was also broadcast by other stations, and chornovol just had

a vision of the future, how to achieve independence, no one in those days, these are the 70s, believed that the most powerful country in the world the soviet union, i doubt whether at that time, and today, that small group of people, which was spreading, had more and more supporters both in lviv and in kyiv. and this process of fighting with completely different means for the independence of the ukrainian state has already begun, is it true that the diaspora did not believe at first, people in the west did not believe at first that this could come from ukraine, so what, what did they think that this maybe the development of the kgb, some kind of provocation, absolutely, if there was more time, he is right about it, osyp zinkevich tells he says that the reaction of the ukrainian diaspora was strange, but the powerful soviet

propaganda worked, this is just an illustration of how it worked, how effectively it worked, that even ukrainians believed that ukraine as such no longer existed, it dissolved into the soviet union and everything that there is not much to say, they sent people, there is such a girl, i remember him... i also remember her, who must have met, she came from the west to you to check, yes, yes, yes, yes, what year was it, it was, it was somewhere, somewhere, somewhere, somewhere, but after the disaster appeared , somewhere in the 69th-70th, that is , a person came from the diaspora who found out here that she had handed over the photos, proofs, proofs of existence. but the most interesting thing in this story with the ukrainian herald is that even before the arrests , vyacheslav somehow felt, understood that it

would not work out that way, meekly and lightly, he predicted that he would be tied up, even if there was evidence or not, they would organize evidence, and they did organize, there was no evidence after january 12th, so they gathered one a team of professors, academicians. of the university of lviv, who were supposed to conduct an examination of vyacheslav's official texts, because he was published in newspapers, all of the texts that were included in the gazette, so they wrote a conclusion that the texts were placed in an anti-soviet magazine, to which everyone gives all the epithets, in that hostile journals can. belong, may belong to per vyacheslav chornovol, and he then mocked and

wrote such a review of this publication, already in prison, well, he bombed these and those professors, he followed them not only said, as chornovil knew how, and said that the main proof, so to speak, was my texts in the ukrainian gazette, the main proof was. the fact that there was a full stop at the end of each sentence, but here is another interesting story, that you agreed with chornovol, that yes, about the sixth, and the last one for that period, yes, at that time, the number of the ukrainian coachman, already after his arrest, let's start with the direct speech of vyacheslav chornovol, where he talks about it, and then we will continue, please. it was agreed that if they put me in jail, then i have to to continue publication of the magazine.

the magazine was hidden by various good people, maybe some of them are in this hall as well, it was agreed that it would be necessary for someone to continue, this is exactly the person with whom i agreed that he would continue this work, and he is now known activist and so on, when i was arrested and, but all these things remained somewhere, something unfinished, he said, i'm sorry, i can't have a family, children here, and just then atena started rushing to... kosiva, and mykhailo kosiev , who also had a family and children, together with athena pashko made the sixth number ukrainian herald, which was published two or three months after my arrest, got abroad and completely confused our dear kgb. who finally releases it. mykhailo, show yourself again. that is, mykhailo kosiv already after the arrest of chornovolai. how did chornovil find out about it, who told him, uh

, well, first of all, uh, this, well, is really the uniqueness of chornovil, that he predicted just such a possible option, and what should the kgb have done when he, he was reprimanded, well , proved, and questioned, and witnesses, all this, when the fifth volume to take vyacheslav chornovola, there all valya wrote out a criminal record. the chornovol case, and every, every interrogation began, what do you know about the ukrainian herald, this was the main topic at all these... interrogations that were conducted with us, but, er, vyacheslav had another such idea that came true , he says: i will follow the tone of the interrogations with my investigator, i will feel, because they are such that i can see them through and through and that's it, if there is a need,

the necessity, so to speak, to stop, i will pass through athena through the e- er... a note, because athena, as a wife, communicated with the investigator, handed over some products, some notes of a domestic nature, they censored these notes there and everything, and if i feel that somewhere there they have already found some, some, some connections, it means from some sign that somewhere there if... they know about the ukrainian herald, then i will write through athena, i will also pass on the following note: i don’t have warm socks, don’t send them warm socks, the ones i have are enough,

period, so if such a note will be warm socks, which means that everything must be destroyed by everyone. some things that would say that evidence could have been, could have become evidence and so on and so on, and so it happened as agreed, in one of the meetings, the investigator brings, informs atena what he handed over, and vyacheslav handed over the note, which means that she still needs to , but, but warm socks cannot be handed over, and mykhailo kosiv will then drown... and mykhailo, we must thank mykhailo, in front of all of ukraine, that he did a unique thing, and vyacheslav and i always joked when he returned , that slavko, when are you going to exhibit, we are five years old shortened, well yes, because in fact the kgb had no direct evidence that

this magazine was made by a black and white, so was mykhailo, mykhailo printed on his own, he had a smaller one. there was confusion, but this typewriter was tangible evidence, without a doubt, they were looking for typewriters, they were terribly looking for typewriters, so vyacheslav mykhailo kossiv printed at the house of stanislav lyutkevich, a well-known composer, and as mykhailo himself recounts. there was no time to show mykhailo's memory, mykhailo says that stasyo used to call him old lyutkevich, he says: mr. mykhailo, so what, what will it give, so paper, then that muscovite needs a gun,

a gun is a gun, a gun, a gun, and so is sofia fedortseva, of course. i finished it , reprinted it, and then it went the same way, and somewhere, as mykhailo says, and i, we were listening to that wheezing radio freedom, because we were jamming, but i want us to finish this story, that mykhailo kotsiv drowned this typewriter in the lake, yes , in lvinia navaria, when we received a note that i no longer need warm jackets, wear them out... what is there, he drowned according to all laws, and his test drove away, as if i went to the country house, to the garden, and near that garden there is a lake, a mud wreck, somewhere there i found a boat and drowned this car in the middle of that lake, listen, we only have four minutes left, but i want more, i have

two or two more questions , first of all, we are talking about it now as if it were some kind of adventure. big actually, it was a terribly dangerous thing and it was a huge risk, and it did not go easily, and it did not go unpunished, i know that in czechoslovakia pavel morashko, anna kotserova and grotsky were convicted, yes, anna kotserova studied together with valentina in university in philology, studied, and one copy, one, film was transferred through... hanna kotsarova and somewhere the chekists there were killing valentina and me and everyone who we have a relationship with this slovakian student. we

were already more hardened than valentina, they couldn't stand it, they said , yes, they confessed and they were condemned, who in ukraine was punished directly for a ukrainian herald, for a ukrainian herald in ukraine, directly for a herald that... would an accusation was formulated for participation in the edition of ukraine, there was none, because there was none document, no one has confessed , no one has turned it in, but mrs. myrosu, i hasten to say, a colossal merit for us to speak today and for ukraine and the world to know about vyacheslav chornovil, is valentina chornovil, his sister . i don't remember exactly how many volumes

, they didn't give me the opportunity to rephotograph, she copied by hand and she arranged 10 volumes in 11 books, and the third edition of vyacheslav chornovol's works turned out like this. all six numbers of the ukrainian herald are posted, the fifth volume is dedicated the criminal case of vyacheslav chornovol, all the protocols of interrogations, all of them are there in this fifth volume, it is extremely interesting to feel how dangerous was the enterprise of vyacheslav, which was implemented to the end and shook the soviet union. ee ukrainian herald, this full-fledged, full-fledged magazine. here is one more, in conclusion, eh, and this is what zinkevich says, and vyacheslav, and mykhailo kosiv says that

when a piece of paper was published on one sheet, well, someone wrote to himself there and so on, and when a magazine is published , so for the magazine, there must be some chief editor, some small team, that is, it is already an organized group. people, which is united by some one idea, and realizes what the whole world has learned about, and the merit of the ukrainian herald and its main, so to speak, executor, editor-in-chief vyacheslav chornovol, is simply unique in the collapse of the soviet union and in breakthroughs of this iron curtain, which then... existed between the union and the democratic world, mr. yaroslav, thank you also for helping to publish

ukrainian herald, for your courage, bravery, for everything you have done, and i thank you separately for your colossal video archive that you have collected, because everything we see now about the first years of independence, about the student hunger strike of the 90s before that... actually this national liberation movement, these are all the shots that yaroslav kendziur shot, i just constantly remember you with the camera, who recorded everything, and now we actually have a unique archive, actually of those times, if it were not for these cadres, we would actually a lot of this is a video transcript of the formation of ukrainian how many hours do you have, well, it's hard to count, because there are 750 vhs format cassettes. they are three hours, two, two hours, 120 minutes, well, in a word, these are colossal, colossal things, thousands of hours of video history,

video history that is extremely important, and not only for us, but also for our children and grandchildren , those who will come, i thank you very much for this conversation, i wish, i thank you for inviting and taking this topic, because for me it is very important and i understood that it was time. life itself, thank you for this conversation, thank you that in these holidays you have dedicated time to this topic, please remember at what price free speech was given to so many generations of people before us, and remember what we are for and what we are fighting against today, be with the espresso tv channel, stay with us, these were proper names, yaroslav kendzur. public figure, politician was our guest today, thank you and i thank you.

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so traditional carols, trips to the christmas cities of our country, very special guests and extremely warm conversations. december 24, let's celebrate christmas together with espresso. what issue will be decided at the referendum in moldovans and why celebrating christmas on december 25 is a historic step. not only the news team will tell about it. good evening, annaeva melnyk is with you and for your attention the results of today's day. three more ukrainian children were returned from the occupied territories of the organization.