raid and any evidence of the united states that we sent you, the russians say, no, you did not send anything, you are behind this terrorist attack and so on and so forth. by the way, the spokesman of the state department of the united states of america , matthew miller, denies the statement of the head of the service, the federal security service of the russian federation, oleksandr bortnikov, that ukraine, the united states of america, and great britain were allegedly involved in this terrorist attack. let's hear what he says. we have made it clear that there is no evidence that that ukraine was involved in this, because ukraine was not involved in this. i would say that these comments by russian officials, including president putin, are nothing more than propaganda to justify their continued aggression against ukraine. it is absolutely obvious that in this story. possible continuation of terrorist attacks

by idols, which may well be, as it can be a powerful factor to destabilize the situation inside the russian federation, because the fsb and all the special services of the russian federation are focused on ukraine, and it is obvious that what happened happened for a reason, and whether the fsb was involved in it or not is difficult. to say, but idil says that we did it, as far as they can resort to some repeated similar actions in order to prove that in the field of terrorists, world terrorists, they are just as important and fulfill their role in the same way as russia, between to others, a great question, look, literally two words, but i answered your previous thesis when the russians say, well, that’s ukraine, that’s the united states...

great britain, well, it’s clear that they are doing, but it is very interesting and enlightening on the last day, how kirmanichi from the fsb, patrushev , the secretary of the security council , stated that this is ukraine, the director of the fsb says that this is ukraine, we are currently working on the evidence base, we are looking, we have some experience, that is, this means in plain language, if you explain, when they say, we are working on it, the evidence base, we fix it there, it means that they are in emergency mode, in emergency order, they are... trying to create artificial evidence, conditionally, electronic correspondence, some throw up ukrainian sim cards that have not been seen before, plus those people who are now locked up in prison, well, these shooters, we saw in what form they came to the court, just in a vegetable state, just like vegetables, i think that they are currently being treated with the use of various chemicals, psychotropic substances, and maybe we will be able to there, for example, i don't know, in a week two, one and a half, i don't know how many. to see some

confessions that in fact they were not led by idols, but by i don't know the british special services, people with a british accent, with an american accent, with a ukrainian accent, a polish one, it doesn't matter, that is, there is now a period of formation of the evidence base to blame ukraine, but time in this case plays exclusively against the russians, now answering your question about the possibility of a terrorist attack, my personal assessment, i estimate it like this, well, 90 percent, according to what is quite well, for a short period of time, a period of time, we can see something, well , something, some kind of manifestation and action in the russian federation, so now in the russian federation they very carefully protect shopping centers, some concerts, they set up metal detectors, the police will stand with dogs either police with dogs or dogs with police, and special forces will be everywhere, but usually. the special services are preparing for terrorist attacks

that have already occurred, a new terrorist attack, it may be in a completely different location, in a completely different place, it is not important, i don’t know there, the subway, airports, a replacement plane, whatever, i think that idil will show himself purely from the principle that yes, they didn't believe the wine, oh , that's how you treated those people who did it, there they cut off the ear, there they connected wires to the genitals, we will show you, that is, i personally... that there may be the next terrorist attack , maybe double. mr. ivan, in parallel with this, the xenophobic attitudes of russia are unfolding, in relation to the tajiks, in relation to the kyrgyz there , and also in relation to other nationalities, more than 120 nations and nationalities live and work in the russian federation, to what extent is this factor that xenophobia can simply cover...

the russian federation and provoke , including forceful clashes between security forces, russian security forces with those peoples and... nationalities that live in the russian federation, and as russians who believe that all tajiks are guilty of this, they are guilty of this the turkmens are to blame for this, the kazakhs or anyone else, well, that is, to what extent this national factor can undermine russia, oh, a difficult question, look, this is indeed the attitude towards all residents of the countries of central asia, tajikistan, uzbekistan, kazakhstan, kyrgyzstan, well, russians don't distinguish them at all, they don't care, i won't call it... the word they use, well , with words, or rather, they have the same attitude, that is, you are not like a slav, that is, everything, you, you are bad, about the residents north caucasus, they are afraid to say it, that's why it is likely that if that terrorist attack is the next , it will not be committed by residents, well , natives of the countries of central asia, but perhaps

, i don't know, by some other african countries, for example, that is, something completely different will be different, primarily such xenophobic manifestations concern citizens who... are not citizens of the russian federation, who work illegally in construction, clean the streets, well, they perform service services, and i don't know there, there is a large retail network, searches are currently taking place there, where the citizens of central asian countries work, that is, the russian federation can hypothetically face such a problem as a shortage or a big problem with the labor force, and now the russians really do. there are people in separate directions, and if these people go to their countries, if they leave the russian federation, then i can roughly predict certain, well, not social upheavals, but economic upheavals, i am not saying that they will be something big, something large-scale, but very unpleasant for the russians, well, for now, one more time

such a black swan, to say that, for example , i don't know, the citizens of turkmenistan will stand up and fight with russian policemen, it can happen locally, but that's how they start. to fight and shout slogans: we are going to moscow, we are going to the kremlin, well, i think not, although in the grand scheme of things everything can be. without a doubt, it has happened many times in russian history that something seemingly insignificant turned into much more, but meanwhile our special services are trying to work from russian territory with russian oil refineries, strike drones fly at different distances. and achieve the goal, i.e. the gas station country is gradually losing this gas station status, and it is clear that these are painful enough blows for the russian federation, there they talk about 13 or 20% of these capacities that were hit by ukrainian drones, what the consequences

of these blows may be for russia and to what extent will this struggle, our unmanned struggle, have... devastating consequences for, including the current putin regime? so let's be very careful in this area hypothetically everything looks good, that is, the destruction of oil refining enterprises, that is , it does not concern oil production, it concerns precisely the processing of oil into diesel fuel, gasoline, aviation kerosene, marine fuel, fuel oil there and many, many other things, that is, it does not specifically concern production, as in ... rock the united states, that you ukrainians can provoke the rise in oil prices, that is, these are not related stories. now, as far as we know, belarus has joined the processing of petroleum products for the needs of the russian federation, there were large numbers, volumes not bad according to preliminary estimates

, approximately 14% of the oil refining capacity of the russian federation was destroyed or damaged, so far... there is no cumulative effect yet, we have not seen it, there are still a small number of such refining enterprises within a radius of 1000 km from ukraine, they they are still somehow working there , either at full capacity or partially working , that is, they have not yet reached them, plus , unfortunately, there are containers in russia, there are such warehouses, stocks with fuel, and they are slowly starting to open them, unpack and to use on our own... market , that is, there is no such effect yet, of course we wanted to see as soon as possible, plus now the russians will start sowing, they would like to disrupt it, but i think that specialists in the oil industry, they can help you to say in more detail when that result can be expected and whether it will be at all, because this is really such a very

delicate area, and here one must be very careful with assessments. thank you, mr. ivan, it was ivan stupak, a military expert, a former employee of the security service of ukraine. friends, we work on live tv. and at the same time we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about whether it is necessary to strengthen responsibility for corruption during the war, everything is quite simple on youtube, yes, no. if you 're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think this corruption accountability should be strengthened. 0800-211381, no 0800 211-382. all calls to these numbers are free, call, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next, we have oleksandr on the air kraev, expert of the ukrainian prizma foreign policy council. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, i am glad to see you on our air. yes, congratulations, good. first of all, first of all , mr. oleksandr, i would like to start our conversation

with the situation where putin is trying to take over and russia is trying to take over the role of the victim after the terrorist attack in the suburbs of moscow , when they are trying to accuse ukraine of being involved in terrorism, and in this way, i understand, putin thought that a window of opportunity would open for him in order to to restore contacts with the president of the united states. of the united states of america by joseph biden , why, after all, this story, which happened in the step of siti hali, did not open up these opportunities for putin, and why are both american and british officials, well , they speak so cautiously about it and are in no hurry to extend their hand to putin in fight against international terrorism. first of all, our events are still too late for many reasons. first of all. that the russians cannot be trusted and the restoration of normal relations with the russians, no matter what the situation, is still a scenario

impossible, even in such a seemingly global issue as the fight against international terrorism. in addition, all the way russia did it, how it conducted investigations, how it provided information, how it cooperated in principle with western countries, showed that it was all false propaganda, that it was all an attempt to create an enemy for itself, an attempt to find guilty where there are none. this is an attempt to really heap even more accusations on ukraine for what ukraine did not do. that is, the russian propaganda gave a slack here and did not really show clearly the narrative russian propaganda could not be consistent in its narrative, and therefore the story that they were allegedly going to ukraine, as it turned out later, they were going to belarus, the fact that they were pretending to cooperate with the ukrainian special services, which they could not prove normally, and even the very format of the detention of these terrorists indicated... that for russia it is primarily a powerful tool of propaganda, but

this propaganda could not create a clear narrative, and the event, fortunately for us, simply did not lead to this. sir oleksandr, literally a week ago , senator linsich graham was in kyiv, and he said that he intends to initiate the adoption in the united states of america of a bill to recognize russia as a state sponsor of terrorism, and well, it just so happened that this tragedy simply unfolded. asked a week after graham visited kyiv, whether against this background , against the background of the anti-terrorist rhetoric of the current kremlin, whether the united states of america would go so far as to declare russia a sponsor of terrorism, a state sponsor of terrorism, although of course russia is a terrorist state, not just a sponsor of terrorism, in fact... a lot of questions arise here, and whether it is necessary, because the topic that russia should be declared a state

sponsor of terrorism has been on the agenda for a very long time in of the united states , and the key argument why it was not done earlier is that it would not in principle bring any great additional added value, because the status of a state sponsor of terrorism, which at one time was in both syria and iraq, which was in libya, which was in some parts generally for... the block that supports india and iran, and these, this status provides a certain set of sanctions, first of all, these are sanctions on the military-industrial complex, these are economic sanctions, this is a ban on issuing new visas, this is the cancellation of existing visas , that is, in essence , this is a specific sanctions package, which is called such an interesting, wonderful word as a state sponsor of terrorism, plus - it is for the seizure of assets abroad, this is the persecution of the powerful of this country, that is, everything ... that is against russia and so on in principle, it is already being done, and that is why the americans have always had such a clear,

clear, clear question: why should we do what is already being done, and especially if we take into account the fact that the sanctions regime against russia has long become much broader than it is against the state that sponsors terrorism. if we are talking about a terrorist state , there is currently no such definition in american legislation, and it would be a much clearer and much more understandable term, because russia does not sponsor terrorism, russia... creates terrorism itself, what is state-level terrorism , state level terrorism, this is a long-proven axiom of international relations, but unfortunately, neither in the usa nor in other western countries, there is still no such article. so that it can be attributed to russia. in just the past few weeks , we have been witnessing how attack drones are trying to destroy the oil refining industry of the russian federation. last week, the financial times wrote an article in a major publication about what it seems that washington is trying

to deter ukrainians and the ukrainian government from striking... oil refining facilities. of the russian federation, how likely is it that this is actually the case, i.e. and and and could it be that the americans are afraid of rising oil prices there, although of course there are still refineries and crude oil , there is a difference between the extractive oil industry and processing, in fact , as we saw later from the reaction to this material, as we saw from the reaction to the alleged words of jake sullivan that ukraine should stop such strikes, as they like to say, everything is not so clear, both the pentagon and the state department , and even the white house apparatus they said that the salvan was misunderstood, and actually included a statement that let 's not hit russian refineries because it raises oil prices, that there was no such statement,

that there was a statement that it could provoke, and it is uncontrolled escalation, well, as sullivan said before, it really happened, but... but the fact that the americans cannot agree on a single definition, the fact that the americans have a slightly broken system of messages, a system of narratives, shows that it really was or sullivan's improvisation, he was either really misunderstood or the real issue was not that ukraine was making such blows, it was that the americans were not ready for it, they were either not warned, or they simply did not have their own strategy, if you look at the content analysis of what the americans recently stated, then their policy... in essence has not changed, they do not publicly support such strikes, but they understand that ukraine has every right to carry out such strikes, because this is the infrastructure that helps the military machine of the russian federation, so this infrastructure must be destroyed in order to stop military invasion of the russian federation , therefore the americans, after such an unfortunate situation with misunderstanding turned out with sullivan, they decided to take the old

position and neither support, nor prohibit, but a clear position at the same time of the president... of the united states of america joseph biden about russian dictator vladimir putin, he called him a butcher. we remember that in the 21st year, after he met putin in geneva, he called him a murderer, well, he confirmed it, answering a journalist's question, now under during a pre-election event in north carolina, he proposed to introduce, biden means, a 25% tax on the incomes of billionaires, so that directly... these funds would go to help ukraine. let's hear what biden said. this would raise $400 billion over the next 10 years. imagine what we could do with them. we could drastically reduce the federal deficit. we could provide home care and much more. in particular, to finally protect

ukraine from this butcher putin. listen, i can see the future we're in save the planet from the climate crisis and our country from gun violence. mr. oleksandr, well, the main thing here is not that he called him a butcher or a shopkeeper, but the main thing is that he proposes to introduce a 25 percent tax for billionaires in order to direct these funds to help ukraine, will there not be a reverse effect when these billionaires they will say: well, listen, you still want to impose an additional tax on us, and they will also start promoting their narratives there, they will say, eh, we will not help ukraine, because this it is not at all clear why we are being stripped again, well, that is, billionaires, they are billionaires in all countries and do not want to share what they have earned, what is chasing biden and what reaction might those who really have

money in the united states of america have, first of all, ukraine is far was not the first on the list of what biden wants to do on these. ukraine was one of the options where he wants to spend these funds, how he wants to use them. secondly, this idea is not new, this idea has been promoted in the democratic party for the last several election cycles, and it has changed quite seriously in the last 10 years, it all started with a basic tax of 1% for everyone who has more than 1 million dollars a year in wealth, income, to be more precise, and now it comes to the idea of ​​25% taxes for billionaires and those who a ... is actively leaving the status of a millionaire, but has not yet become a billionaire, that is, this question has been in the democratic party for a long time, it is not something new, it is aimed at ukraine, or something that was taken from the air, third, ... and we we see rather not that now the millionaires will start there negatively to respond to this new biden policy, we see other trends, we see that ukrainian

issues are now not exclusively an international issue, the ukrainian issue is now an issue of domestic politics, an issue of tax reform, because by the way, tax reform is one of the key issues of this election campaign, they are fundamentally different for biden and trump, and therefore ukraine is now part of even domestic politics. for president biden, which is of course only positive for us, in terms of large corporations, which these taxes can primarily to influence, well, you know, for them, on the contrary, aid to ukraine can be a way to return these taxes, because for the same general motors or general electric or lock martin, 25% of the tax that was taken from them is coaxed, then it is spent on the fact that they themselves place a federal order for the production of their products, and all thanks to these 25% taxes. to ukraine, they will be able to pay it back, so the narrative that ukraine is allegedly robbing american billionaires, well, for now, it simply won't work. at the same time, the administration of president biden

again called on congress to pass a bill on aid to ukraine, as this issue is closely related to america's national security. white house spokeswoman karin janiere said that house speaker mike johnson is looking for an excuse not to bring this law to a vote. project, well , we see how over the past three or four months it has been unfolding, or even already five, this entire epic unfolding with the allocation of 63 billion dollars for the needs of ukraine, you correctly noted that part money will remain in the american budget and will be directed to produce weapons and then send them to ukraine. why is this an issue, even after moving into the category of domestic politics, why is it not moving, because ultimately the future

of ukraine and the lives of ukrainians depend on it, because this issue has become politicized, this issue has become politicized in the context of the struggle between trump and the trumpists against biden, and as long as they see a plus in the fact that the ukrainian topic, or rather the inability of the americans to provide help to ukraine as long as they see. that it sinks biden's ratings, as long as they see that it actually has an impact and doesn't allow biden to gain new support points, they will unfortunately continue to do so. recently, there have been good signals in the context of the fact that trump himself began to use the ukrainian theme in order to gain ratings, we saw his statements that the blood of 100 thousand ukrainians and israelis is allegedly on biden's hands, that he would help ukraine even it is better that there was no war under him at all, that is, we expected that trump's narrative will change, but... the fact that mike johnson is now trying to be removed by the trumpists themselves, for the fact that he cooperates with the democrats, and for the fact that he is trying to present some new alternative budget

that could help ukraine, this, unfortunately, still indicates that trump and his part of the party are interested in the ukrainian topic only as a tool against biden, only as a tool to weaken biden's rating, and this is the key reason for the delay and support for ukraine. trump is still... before the start of the election during the campaign, he said a lot about the fact that if i win this election, i will do everything to put putin and zelensky at the transition table and end russia's war against ukraine within 24 hours. where does the pre-election and election trump end, and where will we see the real trump, how will they coincide, what trump is saying now. and what he might do if he wins the election in the united states of america. trump is predictable in his unpredictability.

that is, the trump two weeks ago is no longer the same the trump who is now and the trump who is in two weeks will not be the trump who he is now. that is, the changes can be absolutely radical. the only thing that we must understand for sure and that we can really predict is that for at least the first six months of the year , the trump administration, if it does come to power and... will not be involved in foreign policy. we see that trump has a huge set of reforms, a huge set of changes that he wants to make, and the elimination of the department of justice, because he wants to transfer its powers to white's legal advisers home and the introduction of a certain censorship commission, which will allow him, as he himself says, to control fake media, and a review of the composition and reform of the supreme court in general, and also the consequences of the elections to congress, which he will have to deal with, and also impeachment. which can happen to him again if the democrats take over the congress, i.e. trump, or rather, trump's coming to power, first of all indicates a crisis, a crisis that will not allow him to engage

in foreign policy. not only ukraine, but also relations with nato, relations with israel, with taiwan and so on. therefore, at the moment , the main problem with trump is that his coming to power will be as crisis-like as possible, as chaotic as possible. what will be his policy towards ukraine, here we can say only one thing: we can convince him that ukraine will fulfill his key foreign policy tasks. trump has two foreign policy tasks. this is to earn an image and political weight and earn money. and ukraine can give him both, and that is why the key task of our political leadership and our diplomacy is very important it is clever and very understandable to explain this to trump, if he is still on his way to the white house for his second term. and yet, mr. oleksandr, who can be more convincing in a conversation with trump, as a potential winner of the next election, putin or zelensky? american business

, strange as it may be, but to me... it seems in the putin-zelensky dichotomy, the only ones who can really convince trump are american businessmen, especially big business, defense industry, industry, even the automobile industry, and even energy companies , who, thanks to the sanctions against russia, began to earn very well, that is, indeed, zelensky allegedly has a good history of relations with him, and trump himself often said that zelensky is a normal dude, and you can have good political and business relations with him, and a normal dude is a direct quote. but trump still says it was one of the best phone calls of his life, so let's take him at his word here. if we talk about putin, trump's relationship there is very unstable, then putin is a murderer and a violator of international law, who killed navalny, then putin is the last adequate leader of our time, then putin starts bloody wars, he

must be stopped, or else... putin cannot be negotiated, and so i repeat, the only stable player who can definitely convince trump, in our case, that , what should be supported in ukraine is the american defense and industrial complex, for which ukraine is the contract of the century, and the same applies to producers of heavy metals, the same applies to other industries, the same applies even to the fuel industry, which is very repeat earns a lot from sanctions against russia. and very briefly. a short question and a short answer is desired: for putin, which president is better: biden or trump? for putin, if it were not surprising, trump is better, because trump is chaos, this is exactly what we talked about with you, trump is not predictable, and he will not allow states to be strong in the international arena for a very long time. thank you, mr. oleksandr, for the conversation, it was oleksandr kraev, an expert of the foreign policy council of ukrainian prizma. friends, we

are live. channel espresso, a also on our youtube and facebook platforms, and during the entire broadcast we are conducting a survey, which we will continue in the second part of our program, it sounds like this: is it necessary to strengthen the responsibility for corruption during the war, now we will see the intermediate results of our survey: 98% yes, almost unanimously and 2% no, you see, after all, 2% of people who watch us doubt that responsibility for corruption should be strengthened, or maybe they think... that there is already enough responsibility for corruption in ukraine that it should not be strengthened . on youtube now the ratio is 97%, yes, no, 3%. later on we will have news from our colleagues at the bbc, and in 15 minutes we will be back in the studio. political experts oleksiy holobutskyi and viktor boberenko will be on the air. let's talk about the most current issues, including corruption in sumy oblast. in 15 minutes.

see you, stay with us. why the kremlin is trying to blame ukraine for the attack on kroka city hall, how it spreads fakes and how the west reacts to all this. in this edition of bbc ukraine, we will try to understand this. i am olga polymaryuk. not immediately after the attack on the kroku city hall concert hall near moscow, the kremlin began to blame ukraine. the russian news was the first to talk about the so-called ukrainian trail. later, almost a day after the attack, vladimir putin said that the alleged suspects in the attack were trying to escape and were moving in the direction of ukraine.

president volodymyr zelensky reacted to such statements. he denied the integrity of ukraine before the attack.