will soon join nato, option three: ukraine gets nothing, gets some kind of road map with unclear terms, and ukraine will be told, as president biden said, that a necessary prerequisite for ukraine's accession to nato will be its victory over russia. here is an interesting moment, we should talk about this victory in more detail, because we, too, it seems to me, all the time. we are in some certain, i said, terminological misunderstandings, which i mean, for us, for most people who grew up in in the soviet, ideological and terminological context, as well as for russians, victory, that is victory, is when the victorious army enters the capital...

it hangs its flag over the seat of power of this country, establishes its order there, at least creates an occupation zone and tells the population of the captured country , how he, how she should live. soviet and allied troops in berlin are a symbol of victory. it should not be assumed that we are not affected by this ideology. ukraine actually lived in this ideology, if... then until 2005, conditionally saying, if not further, if we remember how all our parades and victories looked like in kyiv, i am not talking about moscow, well, then, for us , victory is at least if we go to the borders of 1991, it is better to russia has collapsed, you hear that our compatriots always say, we will get out, it will collapse, we understand that we will not reach moscow, then it is necessary that moscow itself somehow collapses, and this is a victory, what the russians say, over... this is if we occupy all of

ukraine, enter kyiv, destroy the so-called nazis, and this is simply the territory of this ukraine, of historical russia, if it does not obey us, we are all this, well, we need to destroy kharkiv, as volodymyr solovyov says, we need to destroy zaporizhzhia there, they are doing it, by and large they acted in the same way during the second world war, and not only with german cities, and no , the hitlerites acted like that when they destroyed warsaw, this is victory, it is disloyal to destroy. together with the cities where it lives, a great idea, in the west victory looks different, in the west victory is the end of hostilities, with the signing of a political agreement, and wins the one who chooses the best terms in this political agreement for himself, not the one who captures the enemy's capital. the united states was defeated in vietnam, not because it eliminated the republic of south vietnam, it was. was a consequence, and because in the peace agreement

with north vietnam, the united states did not achieve the, i would say, the conditions that they were counting on, that's why it's called a defeat, the americans were not going to take hanoi, it's the south, the north vietnam was going to seize this hour, and therefore for the president biden, when he talks about the victory of ukraine, means that at some point there will be talks between russia and ukraine, at which the presidents of both countries, vladimir putin. during these negotiations, ukraine must have a strong position so that it can protect its sovereignty and the right to choose, and this is absolutely not what the average ukrainian thinks, because he does not even imagine the president of ukraine shaking hands with the president of russia, but president biden, i think, imagine, and that's the problem that... when we

hear biden, we think, how does he see our victory, he wants us to reach moscow, and after that we can be taken to nato, no, he wants a settlement that guarantees the united states that the russian federation does not claim anything more in ukraine, and that after the admission of ukraine to nato, she will not enter into a conflict with nato, that she recognizes that ukraine is the part of ukraine that can be defended, i hope that it will be all of ukraine within the borders. in 1991, but no one knows this, the war is just beginning, or nothing important has happened, as you understand, because the countries, both countries are not yet at the level of exhaustion, but the main thing will begin when there will be political, social and demographic exhaustion of both countries, and we are exhausted on the way to this, both ukraine and russia, we are just walking on this terrible bridge to the abyss, because the war - this is always such a situation, but at this moment the west must be sure, they will sit down.

will sign and then they will say: we are taking ukraine to nato, we are not in any danger of a nuclear war between the united states and russia, which will lead to the death of tens of millions people, there will be no, this is a correct position, this is not. or not, that's another question, i'm not absolutely sure, by the way, that you can agree with this position, because i believe that in this situation russia can fight, well, not to infinity, but to the exhaustion of its own resources, but this biden's view is chancellor scholz's view, and here the question arises, why we should not argue with these views, because every month of delay, every few months of delay, is the road to... serious political, social and demographic problems in the country, that is see we are now the president there in nine months, he signed the law on lowering the mobilization age, and everyone says that it is very necessary, i am absolutely not going

to argue here, because the armed forces are absolutely more aware of the number of mobilized people they need, but there is the problem is that we have people there who are 20-25 years old, remember all these are people born in the 90s, when we will have... a demographic decline, they are four times less than people who are 40- 45, that is, my peers, they were born in the soviet union conditions, people there are 10 years younger than me, when, in principle, there was a stable birth situation, and then there was a dip, then it began to level off, now there is a new dip, which means that the more we lower the mobilization age, the more we have real . that the ukrainian nation will not recover after the war, well, it's just that, you can, you can sigh here, you can talk, but otherwise you can't do anything, i can, it's mathematics, yes, that in principle, a demographic victory over the ukrainian people by the non- russian side state, and from the russian side people is achieved literally before our eyes,

but we are witnesses of this victory, which is very dangerous, and by the way, the russians are defeating not only us, they are defeating the buryats, they are defeating the tuvans, they are defeating the chechens, in principle, thanks to this war, they are eliminating all the prerequisites for the probable collapse of russia, about which we talk so much, because if there is no people, this is the stalinist approach, there is no problem, and by the way , the same with ukrainians, if ukrainians turn into a small nation that will rebuild their completely destroyed cities, not having the demographic potential, in principle it can be said that civilizational... russia, it is in putin's pocket, he is achieving it. the west, why am i talking about this, the west cannot believe that ukraine is capable of waging a war of attrition until infinity, and believes, even as we speak, that the war will continue for another year, two more, three more, five more, it may be , there is a question of a way out, a mathematical

way out of this war, who will come out of it, what will happen to the ukrainian people at the way out, and to say that it depends only on the ukrainians, but this dishonest, because... again, of course, it is possible for the americans or anyone else to be completely equal there, we have 40 million or 20, or 20, but you know, as a person of jewish origin, i told you, during the second world war it was all the same, it didn’t matter to everyone how many jews would remain, and what if there were few left, now there is a jewish people of about 15 million people around the world, there were only 35 or 40. if it weren’t for the holocaust, and for i don't know for the americans, for the french or for the poles, this is arithmetic, but for the jews it is destroyed families, and those people who did not give birth to anyone, because they were destroyed and did not leave

behind descendants, and you just need to understand that this is a very similar situation, and russia, which in principle is such a du... of the hitler's reich in terms of ideology approaches, it simply restores this situation, one might say, and this is a win-win option, if you are not held by the hands, and here we must clearly understand, for us, putin is some kind of obsessive, who does not know what he is doing, he knows perfectly well , what he does, he all these tables, all these numbers, i assure you, he sits, counts at night, he, the only thing this person is able to do almost flawlessly, work with documents, he works, as a result, his work with documents also perishes and does not leave behind children and grandchildren, living people, our with you compatriots, well here in this case i completely agree with you, unfortunately, unfortunately, we see that part of even ukrainian

society and the societies of other countries, they do not understand this, we see this and the leaders of other countries do not understand but we come to another, again appearing now, such information is constantly circulating that the event, that the leaders of the state. nato somewhere in the far, far away, as they say, far away drawer is still discussing the question of whether it is possible that ukraine should be accepted into nato, or at least guarantee ukraine something within the controlled territories that we have now, and this week we hear this information again from the foreign media about the fact that such a question... is being discussed behind the scenes somewhere, and here another dissonance arises, that ukrainian

society is very often not ready for of such things, that is, we see how the people who were in 22-23, maybe, maybe there was a certain overdose about this information , about the ukrainian victory, about the fact that we have to go to the borders and so on and so forth similar, to reach... moscow, to reach belgrade, and, unfortunately, we still hear all these things from ukrainian experts, from the ukrainian media, i think it's wrong, because we need to talk about constructive things now, like what you said just now, but this is a formula, how real is it can now be discussed, and how realistically ukraine can be pushed to such a form. that, conditionally speaking, we recognize the state of ukraine within the borders in

which it legally exists, but, but we realize that this part is now, at least for the time being, occupied and to extrapolate it all, like, for example, germany, yes, which was divided, or north korea and south korea, which are divided, so how, how does it all fit into the context of a possible... vision of the world leaders for further actions in relation to ukraine? nothing serious. i believe that it is cartoon. that is, it is actually, when we hear these forecasts, it is an interesting thing, it really needs to be discussed. when we hear all these suggestions, we have to realize a simple thing, it is a reflection of this very story. we accept ukraine into nato, or give it security guarantees, such as those received by sweden and finland. remember when they submitted donat's applications, but only for this territory,

which is in principle controlled by the legitimate ukrainian government, or even more, for the territory that the russian federation does not claim, this approach can also be applied, that we give security guarantees for the entire territory, except for the autonomous republic of crimea, sevastopol, donetsk, luhansk, kherson and zaporizhzhia regions in their territories'. i think this is absolutely idiocy, to be honest, but it can be, that is, western politicians can think about it, but you can't compare it with the german democratic republic and the federal republic of germany or with south korea or the north, you know why? the territory of the german democratic republic was not claimed by any other state on the territory of the south korea too. it was a conflict between two conditionally independent, sovereign states that could

interact with each other. there is the republic of korea, there is the democratic people's republic of korea, they may not consider themselves states, but south korea does not consider north korea to be a state, north korea did not consider south korea to be a state until now, but now it has started to consider it after that, they refused from the policy of reunification, the same was the case between germany and the gdr, each of these countries claimed the opposite territory, for a certain period of time generally refused diplomatic relations between countries that were, in diplomatic relations with the gdr, as china and taiwan it was approximately, but the most important thing was that they were sovereign governments, now imagine a completely different situation in the korean war, why not. north korea becomes an autonomous republic within the russian federation.

korean assr. why not? the republic of tuva is a part of the russian federation, what makes it different from korea. this is the same state. former tovinsk people's republic. annexed by russian by the soviet union and included in the russian federation as an autonomous region, and then as a republic. everything is possible if you wish, you can imagine everything. that's it. the truth is a different situation, south korea would be in a different situation, because it claimed not the territory of the sovereign dprk, but the territory of russia. do you think the americans could conclude some kind of military cooperation agreement with south korea, keep troops there, if south korea emphasized that it is ready to liberate territories that are an integral part by military means or otherwise of the soviet union. well, clearly not, we have to understand that, and now let's imagine that the same thing would have happened with the german democratic

republic, that the soviet union would not have created a people's democratic state without these countries of central europe. would include all of them in the union republics. the federal republic of germany could, of course, join nato, but it would then have to emphasize in its constitution that it does not claim this territory. and what's more, i think that even if they don't take the donation. they would think for a very long time what to do with it. so what now the current situation: putin violated international law, annexed our territory. what does it mean that they will take us to join nato if we refuse. from our own territory, and why only from this one, in what way, and if we gave up this territory, where do we have guarantees that russian troops will not enter the kharkiv region and the same will not be annexed, well, now let's forget about us, and let's see on the western states, they also recognize that the territory annexed by russia is the territory of

russia, how is it even possible to do this from the point of view from the point of view of international law? you can imagine the situation, i will repeat it again: ukraine is admitted to nato. these territories are considered ukrainian, but we agree that they can be liberated only politically , not militarily. ukraine also agrees with this. a separate document is signed. nato troops are on the conflict line. but no one will ever force ukraine to give up its own. constitutional territories, because if this happens, it is the end of the world in the literal sense of the word, it will mean that territorial changes can happen in europe by force, and then again, what kind of signal do you send to vladimir putin in this situation, this is nato territory, and this is non-nato territory, are you

sure that putin will not try to seize some more territory of ukraine and say, well let it be nato territory. and it won't be nato, well, that is, i believe that all these same ideas may be circulating somewhere in donald trump's circle, but do you understand the craziness of the situation? first of all, it is believed that putin will agree to this, but why would he? you can pay for it, but if they ask him, you know, we will give you donetsk, luhansk, kherson and zaporizhia regions, you know, like somewhere in... the meat department and some more tenderloin, please, and some more there 50 g of fillet, and crimea, and you only agree that ukraine should join nato, but our idea was russian to move the borders of nato away from our borders, and now you want to mechanically bring them closer to those territories that we accepted

as part of russia ? no, any acceptance of ukraine into nato cannot be agreed with russia because... if you start something coordinate with russia, then the question arises, why did you not coordinate anything with it in 2022, when it demanded from you a security guarantee, a guarantee that ukraine will not join nato, a guarantee that you will withdraw the latest weapons from the countries of central europe, and absolutely you clearly said, we cannot agree to this for one simple reason, because it violates the sovereignty of nato countries, it violates the sovereignty of nato, it will not be decided by russia, but now it turns out that we will be with russia... the admission of ukraine to nato, so about that there was a discussion at all, so i don't believe it, that is, after all, we come to the situation that russia itself is unlikely to agree to such a thing, yes, and in the end, we then begin to realize that in such a case, even

conditionally speaking, civilized states, conditional, as we call them, in which international law operates, in fact, by and by... the purpose of the russian federation is absolutely simple and transparent, no one hides it, i used to say that if as in crime plot, if a maniac wants to say that he wants to kill you, you have to believe him. wants restoration of its statehood within the borders of the soviet union in 1991, perhaps with the exception of the baltic countries, if it does not want a conflict with nato, as much as it... er can grab, it will grab. so, the key to the restoration of this statehood is in ukraine, because it was always like that in the 20s of the 20th century, that if you overcome the resistance of ukraine, as

the largest of the former soviet republics, the other soviet republics simply fall into your hands by themselves. in addition, there are only a few countries in the post-soviet space with conditional electoral democracy, i mean attention where the power changes. this is ukraine, this is... the republic of moldova, this is georgia, this is armenia, and these are small countries, if you understand, and this is kyrgyzstan, in all other countries, in all of them, the government does not change, it completely controls the state and society, so it means to negotiate about some forms of integration is not necessary with societies. and with the first persons, of course, the first persons are also different, you see, lukashenko can tell you that he is only in favor, and aliyev can

tell you that the door is there, in response to such proposals, and the door is there, and there is a door to erdogan, and this is a serious problem with azerbaijan, as you understand, because on the one hand there is actually a leader with unlimited power, and on the other hand this. this leader has various alliances, but one way or another , they may not think about it in moscow, they think that if they basically explain to ilham heydarovich there, how life is arranged now, then he will not be able to refuse them, and there is some kind of alliance of sovereign states , conditional with different types of membership, they glue together, so this is such a global thing, but we, we are here, so the main idea is that our state should not be like the subject, at least an independent one, may have some conditional sovereignty with... will remain, but there in a part of the territory headed by medvedchuk, who sits and waits for it, there is no need to even doubt why russia exchanged him, because for putin he is the next the leader

of ukraine, the one he wants to create, this is the time, now our goal, our goal - to go to the borders of 1991, preserve sovereignty, join the european union and nato. now the goal of the event is to end this war. success of ukraine in one way or another, without direct conflict with the russian federation. three main players. now let's discuss the possibilities: does russia have the ability to control the entire territory of ukraine with the help of military force. can we draw certain conclusions after two years? well , definitely not, definitely not, because if she could, she wouldn't be under... avdiivka in two years. now the next question arises. can ukraine, well at least in

the foreseeable future, execute russian troops from the territory of which, which, from the ukrainian territory that they control, and finish on this war. do we have such opportunities? rather not either. rather not either. now the third question. west. will be able to guarantee himself that further support for ukraine will lead to a direct conflict with the russian federation, if this situation continues like this, when it becomes clear that russia cannot and ukraine cannot, well, logically, no, and correctly, logically , that no, that there is no such guarantee, it means where, it means that if all these answers are negative, it means that at some stage the parties should stop. but it depends not from us, not from russia, from putin. at some stage, putin has to realize that these

forces, which he is directing to destroy ukraine, in principle, they are redrawn and do not lead to anything, and that it is better for him to stop at some stage, let's say, if ukraine is also ready for such a stop, then there may be... not a political agreement, but a de facto cease-fire, well, whether according to the principle of the grain agreement, we are simply standing here, where we have reached, near avdiyivka, or on the border of ukraine, i do not know, because we all wanted to the armed forces of ukraine performed a miracle, but this, we are not discussing now, where will be the line of contact between the russian and ukrainian troops, on this line the fire will stop and they will stop. shelling of ukrainian territory by russians, and russian territory by ukrainians. just a stop. this is the maximum that the parties

can achieve. now the question we have to sort out is what the west will do in this situation, will it be ready to accept ukraine into nato. well, here we actually come to the question that i asked, how many minutes are there 25 back. yes, that is, if they are discussing something like that, yes, then it means, accordingly, that we have come to this in principle, we have come to this correctly, but they will not admit anything if they simply see that russia is further... no can move, and it appears that it is simply exhausted, it is not a threat to them, and if the ukrainian war resumes, it will resume as a threat, and at that moment they can agree to the admission of ukraine to nato, but in exchange for not recognizing these russian territories, in exchange for not continuing the war. but we are fine we understand that, in principle, russia is to be trusted, and

no one will trust russia. they say, and the second question, if we are talking about joining nato, yes, we also have to understand that without actually joining nato, there is no guarantee that there will be no war in the future, there is none, in fact at all, and we must understand that if ukraine does not join nato, relatively speaking, in some perspective, then we start counting down to the next war, the next war and everything, and... and this is actually smart people who talked about it and in the 90s, and in the zeros, therefore, the formula is not to attack russia, so that, i would say, the losses from an attack would be greater than the losses from a non-attack, so what is the measure then, what will he be ready for then, if we come to this conditional option, where would he this option would not stop there, the west is then ready to accept ukraine into nato, and what will the formula be from the point of view of international law

here, because we... here we said that there are certain conflicts with international law, here we are already moving on to the situation, there , when, let's say, it will be, so this situation, what, what in this in the event that nato should do what ukraine should do, and how should we arrange it all legally correctly, so that western countries, in fact, do not lose, relatively speaking, their own place on the map of international law. and international law was not destroyed and let's say ukraine was also satisfied and also everything took place within the framework of current legislation and common sense. ukraine should be admitted to nato in its entire territorial integrity, but with the understanding of the fact that if, if it does not restore its territorial integrity system, that part of its territories

she is not in control. and that the restoration of control over these territories can take place, as the president of ukraine is now saying, by the way of a political decision in the future. at the same time, no one asks russia what it thinks about ukraine joining nato, because it is not russia's opinion. at the same time, ukraine gives guarantees to nato member countries. this may be under a separate agreement between ukraine and nato. that it will not carry out military, its own military steps to restore its territorial integrity and adheres to the position of political dialogue, to thing, this formula can be applied to georgia as well, it's the same story, and these declarations are basically russia's answer to nato's answer to russia's fears: no,

no one is going to attack you. and even those territories that you have illegally seized, they are not going to be liberated by military means, but if you take even a step from this line, which is defined there by the armistice agreement, it is an attack on nato. and everything that happens next, i can also tell you, what always happens in history, in some way the moment the russian government changes, the political conditions change, and a platform for dialogue, helchtin level, dialogue, which should define the borders in europe, emerges, and then the russian federation is forced to find a formula for relinquishing the territories it seized by military means, and what will this look like formula, we cannot know today, it may be a proposal of a transitional period, it may be

a proposal... to hold referendums on