right now we have no more important problem than the problem of the war against ukraine, a war that may now be against poland, but in fact it is also against poland, because it is against western civilization, we are very sorry , mr. pavle, sorry, pavel bobolovych, a polish journalist, thank you very, very much, very cleverly laid everything out on the shelves for us, so thank you very much, and ukrainian-polish relations resemble the title of an american film, stupid and even stupider. well, what can you do, we have other politicians for you no, as comrade stalin said about the writers of his time. and finally we waited for mr., i personally can say for sure, i finally waited for mr. volodymyr hrysk, diplomats, minister of foreign affairs for nine years, head of the russian research center, good health, mr. volodymyr, thank you for visiting us, why i make such compliments because it is obvious that the editors. and i'm to blame here, i also couldn't

prepare everything, because at night there was a bombardment of israel by iran, and this should logically be the first news, but on sunday no one you won't find, that's why they found you, and you can also, as a diplomat, share your thoughts about these iranian-jewish relations, and my first question, you know, i follow it, and we talk about it often, about international events , and i see a precedent, iran has always imposed its own interests with the help of proxies. iran has not fought anywhere except the iran-iraq war, it could have created some provocations, bribed someone somewhere, created hezbollah, the houthis here and there, but this is how iran is bombing something on its territory, for the last time. it was in 89

the year when the iran-iraq war ended. the question is: what happened to them in tehran, that they dared to directly officially declare military actions and launch these 300 different lethal vehicles and missiles there and all over the world. greetings, mr. mykola, i am also glad to see you, it is always a pleasure to be your guest, you will invite, you will find more often, maybe... so everything, everything depends on you, thank you, thank you, regarding what has changed, well it has passed 20 years, mr. mykola, and iran has clearly moved forward, you see, despite the so-called international sanctions if he is now supplying russia with weapons, then this indicates that he can already, then he could not, then it was more like the same.

populist intimidation, and now maybe, and realizing that the west will hide from its own shadow because it is afraid of everything, decided that now is just the time when it can be done, and formally used the reason that several of its generals were destroyed by a precise strike israelis, and here's the answer, so from the point of view of the logic of these iranian hayatols , everything works out... it's normal, the west, well yes, he will help a little, but he will not escalate, so that there is no escalation, we are already used to this in ukraine, but israel remains alone, practically, if we talk about further actions, well, now you can actually measure yourself, he of course understands that there can be, there can be certain responses from israel, but i think that probably... one on one they

can already compete with israel, i think the logic is this, that is, you do not rule out that israel will start some attack, because what i see, what i observe, the behavior of both sides, and tigeran and jerusalem, well, it doesn't show, and this attack was like that, you know how it is, as in the russian language, it holds the name of the semer, they were informed in advance, then they launched their territories. i was sitting at night, watching the ninth channel of israeli television, it is in russian, and there they are among themselves somehow , and it flies there for hours, that is, he, if they had warned, listen, it will now fly for 3 hours, fellow jews, please hide, as if tehran said, and somehow everything was like that, everything was done as if we attacked, but so that we would bomb you wanted, but didn't really want, what do you say?

well, mr. mykola, look, now we, too, are reading the messages of our opposing forces, when only in the murmansk region strategic forces rose. and we are told that in three hours they will go to the launch zone, and subtract an hour from that and you will have the rockets, that is, it is almost impossible to hide something now, especially when israel was warned by the americans, the british and all their other western allies, preparations are underway, again, this is not to shoot from a slingshot, sorry, and hit a sparrow, such things it is no longer possible to hide, this is a special operation to prepare for such a launch, and if we are talking about 200 missiles there or drones, then it is visible, well, like in the palm of your hand, so on the one hand, there were warnings, there was information, i think that it is to some extent a game of such muscles on

both sides, but you know, i can't help but think that in fact the west could now... deal with one of the chains of this, this axis of evil: moscow, beijing, pyongyang , tehran, it would be possible to calmly and quite effectively deprive iran of any chance of possessing nuclear weapons. but there is this very thing, but which suggests that neither the usa nor the west as a whole does not want to do this, why? because... fear, and this word, it is a defining word for western politics today, what is relative to us, what is relative to israel, what is relative, most likely to taiwan, that's why this is the story with the fact that we are not protected, look, today

everyone in the west bravuraly reported that the united states of america, britain, and france together repelled iranian drones, and i immediately asked myself the question, listen, maybe we will repel russian drones together or russian missiles? and no, why? and again , because they are russian, they turn out to be special, they turn out to be such that we cannot shoot at them. hey , ukrainians, you're somehow already getting out of your way there, well, you can, you can't, that kind of thing, but we can't, and why can't we, mr. minister, look, and again, because we're afraid, mr. mykola, well, but then what... the strategy of the event, so quietly, but there is no strategy, mr. mykola, there is no strategy in the event, this is the tragedy of today's event, that it has there is no strategy, this is a disaster really, you see, not about russia, not about iran, not about china, look,

the americans have their own approach to china, the europeans have a different approach to china, and they can't get together because in everyone has their own interests, for which they... well, so to speak, i don't want to go on, but you know what i mean, well then this, this is lethargy, lethargy, it will continue for years, let's help taiwan a little bit, israel a little bit , a little to ukraine, not too much, not too much, a little, so carefully, and iran, russia, north korea, and china, well, china, will win there. it will take care of itself, i.e. not such uncertainty, such anti-thatcherism and anti-reaganism, because these are two people who would act completely differently today, and thatcher and reagan, i cannot but

agree with you, mr. mykola, you know that, i resembles an amoeba, you know, such and such a creature that does not have such clear boundaries. and all the time, here and there, that is , it oscillates somewhere in this closed space of its own, but it cannot take shape, that’s how it seems to me now the strategy of our western partners, but they do not have a form, you understand, there are general calls, there is the fact that we will be with you, but now i am also looking at the statements of the americans regarding israel, so we will, well, support you, so, and our support will be steel, iron, whatever you want. so what? well, well, they beat up a little of these drones, this is the response of the most powerful countries to the iranian nuclear threat, this is the response to the fact that iran is destabilizing a whole region of the world, on which a lot depends, because it is an oil

-bearing region and so on. well, i'm honest saying, can't understand the logic of such a strategy, i really do. i am sad that neither reagan nor thatcher, unfortunately, was born in the west anymore, now it is about a kind of political, i would say. pettiness, maybe then i will ask you such a question, maybe trump is better, maybe biden is not so young, i don’t want to offend anyone, but trump is not young either, but somehow he looks more determined, and i just i think now, maybe trump is better, at least in the middle east, agree, mr. minister, he is himself behaved impeccably, he built bridges, something the state of israel. saudi arabia had some pluses there, let's say

there were minuses in europe, minuses in korea, pluses in the middle east. well, you know, mr. mykola, if this imbalance of trump were to our advantage, then of course, one could think that his determination on certain issues would be really necessary for us, but there is a guarantee that this is not his ... let's put it this way, unusualness, ambiguity, no, will hinder us in our struggle for our independence, you see, his advisers frankly say that there were times when he generally had little understanding of what ukraine is and where it is and why it should no longer remain in russia's orbit. well, now the situation has changed, i guess something happened in his mind and so on, but you know... the worst thing about politics is the unpredictability, and you can't understand what

's really going to happen tomorrow, and you can't plan your steps in relation to this country, and this, sorry, not according to plan, but a guinea with all respect for this wonderful country, but you planted a terrible, terrible pessimism in my head, mr. minister, but no, well, there is no pessimism really, mr. mykola, the pessimism is that... we need to draw the right conclusions from this pessimism and to break this rock, we understand the meaning of these prophetic words of franko, i.e. we need to break this absolutely wretched strategy and turn it into the fact that people open their eyes and work for a real perspective, we succeed in this, albeit slowly, even gradually. but let's compare what were two years ago in the minds of europeans, and

it is still today, we see tremendous progress, so this is not about pessimism, here it is about the need to hit harder, and if you see, the minister is already starting to hit in closed meetings, although verbally , then we immediately find an additional patreo somewhere, then an additional aresti. then and something else, that is, this is what it is really about, we see this, their, well, let's say, ideological uncertainty, no, no, but this, on the other hand, allows us to poke around in such a way as to extract from it what we need, so let's see something positive for us from any negative situation, well, i would argue here in the sense that you say about western heads, and i have ... the impression that the ukrains, you know, if ukrainians began to break the rock under the name

of nato in 1991, 1992, 1993, then they would have already sat in nato, and everything would have been fine, and they would have sat like the estonians who are sitting, of whom there are literally 2 million less than residents in kyiv, and they don't care at all, sorry for the undiplomatic word, they are under such an umbrella over there russia and everything is beautiful, but we have been engaged in fostering for a long time. well, mr. mykola. you know, you perfectly understand that there is no conditional way in history, what was done is what was received, but of course we had to exchange nuclear weapons for membership in nato and raise the question of rube, otherwise the situation would have looked like both us and i i think that all of europe, well, but now we can only shake it with our hands. thank you very much, volodymyr hrysko, diplomat to the minister of code affairs of ukraine from seven to nine years. head of the russian research center today they didn't tell him anything about russia, but the events in the middle east really

escalated so much, and now we have to talk about it, there is also ukrainian interest there, at least iran is also there, which supplies weapons to russia, russia is bombing ukrainian cities with these weapons. this is the story: viktor trygubov, major of the armed forces of ukraine, veteran of the ato, journalist, publicist, blogger, social and political activist, co-founder of the democratic ax party, will appear now. why will it appear, because, because it has already appeared, because it is the 10th anniversary the beginning of the anti-terrorist operation in donbas, good health, mr. viktor, thank you for joining us. i congratulate you, mr. mykola, but i have a question for you, by the way, since you were there in donbas then, now the war is already so large-scale, as we call it, and there is a discussion, in fact, the discussion may not be so in ukraine, as abroad, and this discussion boils down to, some say, we need to return to

the borders of 22, others say, no, we need to return to the borders of 91. 14th year, and shorter, that's all, then they start such conversations, well, let's maybe really join the territory that will remain independent, join nato, and the other will not join, well , roughly the same as the federal republic of germany, as the federal republic of germany, and there was also the edr, and and and and along the way plays, everything became clear, the entire gdr wanted to move to germany, which happened. in the end, what do you say, your thoughts about what and what to do and what ukrainians can be inclined to do and whether they can be inclined, for example, to the borders of the sample of the 22nd year, february 24? you know, i don't think so the ukrainians must be persuaded to do something, it seems to me that we must simply win the war, er,

well, i am absolutely sincerely convinced that depending on whether we win... the program will no longer be of fundamental importance, what the borders are, or russia simply does not will be able to continue the aggression, and then it will be a matter of restoring ukraine within its own fair historical borders, or russia will be able to continue the aggression and again the borders will be variable due to the fact that it will persist further. i believe that this war will be decisive for us in one way or another to all our confrontation with russia, which... it will not, well, it may be frozen for several years, and it will be by no means an optimal scenario, but i do not believe that here we will fix some border there, and this border will become the new state border of ukraine , and it will not be like that between ukraine and russia, but one side will lose in this war, there will be no bargaining or draw in this war, because any draw is different from the renewal

of ukrainian borders in 1991, it will simply provoke russia to go further. even if there the rest of ukraine will join nato, it seems to me that now in the current conditions it is no longer as crucial as it was, for example, in the 90s, so we are now in a situation where, as they say, it's either master or gone. mr. viktor, but if ukraine could act 100% independently, then i would agree with you, yes, it is necessary to fight until victory, but when there is no money, when there is no weapons, when there is no ammunition and... there is not much, then it is necessary ask the europeans, the americans, the japanese, the australians, there, the canadians, give a little money, or give ammunition, or give guns, or give airplanes, and even without this, i, somehow, do not have optimism about ukraine's ability to fight with russia

without all these war components. it seems to me that all the wonderful people, except for the japanese, who are... categorically prohibited from exporting weapons, because of their special geopolitical situation after the second world war, it seems to me that all these people in all these countries, they are extremely interested in ukraine all after all, i agreed to some compromise option, but on the other hand, if ukraine does not agree to it, the alternatives for them will be worse, they are even less interested in ukraine losing the war one way or another, and this is where you have to understand it, they can definitely try to ... limit those or other supplies and regulate the conflict in this way, but in any case they are not interested in the fact that ukraine loses, and if, if this supply crisis causes the possibility of ukraine losing, they will be forced to again

to return to the provision of these ammunitions, and perhaps even to a deeper involvement in this conflict, because of course it is ideal. for everyone it would be now, well for everyone, for many in the west, for many countries, if ukraine would simply agree now, would give the russians what they have already occupied, and then business as usual, but even for them, even for them it would be much worse if the russians reached, relatively speaking, i don't know whether to the dnipro, or to zbruch, or to the city of chop in general, that's the situation, you have to understand that it's possible, sir viktor, it is possible. to decipher your version, i do not criticize it, you have the right to any version, but it is simple, so then you can do so, you must surrender, retreat to kharkiv. to kherson again, the west will get scared and start helping ukraine again, because this is this, this is my twisted, twisted subconsciousness

prompting such and such a continuation of your logic? well, let's put it this way, we can talk about different countries of the west, because we know that they now have completely different views on our war, but it seems to me that it will not work. man maneuver, that is, we just took it, left, they were scared, but they, i believe, will really start to reconsider their position if it turns out that ukraine is not, is not able to hold the line of demarcation, and again one must understand that we have our own interests, and this is clearly visible on the example of the same israel, and from our side it is clearly visible on the example of attacks on russian infrastructure, that is how they now began to call not to attack russian infrastructure. because this leads to some economic upheavals the global hydrocarbon market, of course, yes, this is not to the hands of many, but for us these are

legitimate military goals, for us it is a legitimate opportunity to actually fight our adversary, and therefore we must take into account the fact that we also have our own interests, if they don't intersect with the interests of our partners, let's talk with partners about how to make it possible for us to achieve our goal ... without this defeat. now about russia, we talked about ukraine, well, about ukrainian, about the russian-ukrainian war, but now, mr. viktor, about russia, and what do you think of yourself, how do you imagine russia there, conditionally in 10 years, 15, 5, i always, if i had always thought that it is naive to believe that it will disintegrate in the near future, that there will begin civil wars and so on, there... the number of russian guards, troops and so on, the fsb, although on the other hand, in 1991, all this was also in the soviet union somehow did not help. and

what, what is the fate of russia? well, we, we just spoke with mr. ogrysko, he says that the west is afraid of the disintegration of russia, the west is afraid of russia in general. whatever you say, the evening will be sluggish watch in anticipation of when russia itself will come to some intermediate or final finish. most likely, yes, in 1991 they were also afraid, i will honestly say that anyone who will now say what will happen to russia in 15 years, well, it will be a completely lying person, or it will be a prophet, a prophet of some kind of the outgoing class, or it will be a lie, and since i am neither that nor that, i probably won't announce or promise anything, whether it can break up, and of course it can, come on, i'm a little younger than you, i'm 85 th year of birth the countries where i was born fell apart, one country in the neighborhood fell apart, so countries are falling apart, we actually saw it on our own experience, we even experienced it, so to say that oh my god, it can’t fall apart, it’s been there

for a long time, well that it has been there for a long time, many countries were on the map for a long time, and then once, they are no longer there, another matter is in what format, even if it disintegrates, these remnants will continue their own existence, but again, this is as much as it is written to say that... then i would not be active here to run ahead, it is obvious that this will lead to some kind of destabilization, which many people in the west are actually afraid of, simply because they are already used to somehow working with this entity, and someone sincerely believes that if it falls, then for example the same nuclear weapons may fall into the wrong hands, but let's be honest, nuclear weapons are no longer in the right hands, and let's be honest, anything that can be formed there on the ruins, russia, it will be less threatening than russia now, because it is already more aggressive it won't be, russia is already as aggressive as possible, but in any case be weaker, and there is

a discussion, i would go back to russia, there is a big discussion, some people say that i am interested in your subjective opinion, i understand that you, you, your name is viktor trygubov, and not wang, so i don’t want you to deal with it, but there is such a ... discussion, some say that russia cannot change, because the russian people cannot change, it is what it is, it is self-generating themselves constantly, that is, for hundreds or thousands of years, while others say that homo sapiens are all dehumanizing, well, they are able publicize, is any kind of disturbance possible in russia from your point of view, or are russians really doomed to always be slaves? will there be some people there who will say, listen, well, let's somehow not be slaves, because of some circumstances, financial, economic, religious, i don't know,

what kind of circumstances we have now, because of the flood, yes, the flood, the flood, i i i do not know what the circumstances are in russia, whether we will have an earthquake there or something, in short, what do you think about whether they can, if they recover, become a bigger homo sapiens than now, very simply, let's say, theoretically they can, practically, i would n't... i wouldn't bet on it, because on the one hand you're right about most nations changing over time in one way or another, on the other hand , let's be honest, if a nation resists this so strongly throughout its entire functioning as a single national unit, and that's about 500 years, well, if they resist for 500 years, then they can probably resist even more, this is not a european country, for which, relatively speaking , the period of totalitarianism for germany he was an exception, he was something universal

in its history, and for russia, on the contrary, for russia any period of some kind of democratization is an exception, and they pass rather quickly and are remembered in russia as a time of turmoil or some bad times there, so on the one hand, yes theoretically any nation there can change, on the other hand, let's be honest, we can't bet on it, we can't bet on the russians over there suddenly becoming good, because it's a question of the future of our children, it's... a question the future of our country is a banal question of whether we will survive in the future, and therefore we must assume that the russians will rather remain as they are, no, i am not saying that they will become good, they will become maybe a little less bad , it's hard for me to imagine good ones in general, the last question, the last question, if we've already talked about history, today is indeed the tenth anniversary of the beginning of the anti-terrorist.

operations, in your opinion, were there opportunities for ukraine in the 14th year to behave differently and get a better result than the one that did ukraine get parts of donbas with the capture of crimea? it's hard for me to say that , i'm not sure, that's the main problem, now it seems that it would be easy then, but i remember very well how it felt then, and then the main problem was not the absence there, i don't know the patriots. on the lack of weapons, the main problem was the lack of its virtually unified command, the only one, i would say vertical, through which one could issue an order and hope that it would be thrown away, well, how was it actually in crimea, when the orders were actually issued, but the same god, like that admiral berezovsky, seems to have jumped over, simply by receiving an order, jumped over the pain of the enemy, so the main problem there was not that even the country was a slave, it was that the country

was divided. and in the fact that a large number of people simply, some did not agree to believe in what was happening, some did not yet know how to stop, some were simply afraid to take someone's side, so in the 14th year it was a classic, you know how the house is divided to myself, i would say, and would it somehow be possible to find something better, well, maybe it would be possible in the crimea, when already, when something was already going along... i think it was already going somehow along a grooved line and it was going gradually on both sides escalation. thank you very much, viktor trygubav, major of the armed forces of ukraine, veteran, ato, journalist, publicist, blogger, public and political activist, co-founder of the democratic ax party was in touch with us, and my part of the broadcast is ending, i want to thank everyone, but urge to closely watch the news that iryna will present

blacksmith. which is already ready and which will be done brilliantly as always. it's 8 p.m. in ukraine. news time on the espresso tv channel. in the studio of iryna koval. and just now to the most important events. on april 14, the general staff of the occupiers released a video of what appears to be the destruction of the german airisti air defense system. one of the missiles hits the radar station, the other hits the launcher. neither place nor date is specified. let me remind you that germany transferred one iirst system. they are not even armed.

bundessphere.