by our political experts volodymyr fesenko and viktor boberenko. stay with espresso. how many russian soldiers died in russia's full-scale war against ukraine? figures vary, but bbc journalists have confirmed the death of over 50,000 russians. how was it possible to find out about the investigation? we tell the bbc live from london on our broadcast, i'm yevgenia shedlovska. since the beginning of the full-scale war, the bbc russian service, together with the publication mediaazon, have been collecting and verifying data on russian casualties in the war in ukraine. 50,000 - this is data of confirmed deaths for more than 2 years as of april. the data is collected from open sources, from pictures from russian cemeteries, obituaries in local newspapers. 50,000 is eight times more. than the losses that

russia officially declares. most recently, the minister of defense of russia named the number of dead soldiers as early as september 2022. the real death toll is higher. and based on these calculations, the journalists found that russia's losses in the second year of the full-scale invasion were greater than in the first, which shows a change in tactics. before that we are still let's come back, in particular let's talk about the life expectancy of a recruited russian prisoner at the front. but take a look first. what the journalists managed to find out. in russia, the number of graves of war dead is growing rapidly. 05:11. november 5. 09:11. november 9. this video with the dates of deaths was sent to us by volunteers from vladivostok. and this is the same cemetery from above. over the last two years , it has doubled. such a picture can be seen in cemeteries throughout russia. from the beginning. withdrawal bbc together with partners

compared photos of graves, posts in social networks and news to track the number of russians who died fighting in ukraine. so far, we have confirmed 50,000 names. our data shows that russia lost 23% more troops in the second year of the invasion than in the first. this reflects a change in their tactics. initially, russia relied on its professional soldiers, trained to conduct complex operations. but... in 23, russia began sending thousands of inexperienced soldiers to what the soldiers themselves called a meat grinder. the russians are now capable use much more firepower against ukrainian positions when going on the offensive. until the ukrainians can change this balance of firepower, the meat grinder tactic will most likely remain a fairly successful capture of small areas along the entire front. trained and sent to

war play a crucial role in this tactic, in exchange for six months at the front they were promised freedom if they survived. to understand the average length of military life of recruits, we tracked more than a thousand prisoners, from the day they were drafted to the day they were drafted. their death. our data show that more than half of the prisoners from our sample died within 12 weeks of arriving at the front. the prisoners are sent to the ukrainian positions first. forcing the ukrainians to reveal their positions and engage in battle, probably using artillery. then combat units could already conduct their own offensive operations against weakened ukrainian positions. and while our count only includes publicly reported deaths, data from warehouses across russia suggests that the true number is likely twice as high. the russian government did not respond to our request for ... comment, and as russian

troops continue to advance, footage of new graves is emerging daily. the bbc's olga ivshina has been investigating russian casualties since the start of the full-scale war, and i asked her to tell me more about how the information is gathered and verified. all our data, all our data are based only on open sources, and only on sources confirmed by the russian side. we do this on purpose. so that the numbers we have now would be impossible refute, because these are official statements of russian persons, publications of close relatives and friends on social networks, we check all publications on social networks, and there is also data from military memorials and cemeteries, this is not the largest segment, but it is very important, because it allows us to understand not only how many names we have, but also how many names we are losing, because every time we get information from some war memorial, monument, cemetery, we see... all

those soldiers whose deaths were announced publicly , and plus from 30 to 70% of those about whom not publicly stated, but here is evidence that they died, so that's it... we think that we can add about the same number to our data and that will be the real number of casualties, but it will already be a guess, and here are these 50 000 names are ironically confirmed. we do not use photos of dead soldiers, photos of their documents, because the russian side can dispute these sources, and they will no longer be able to deny what has been confirmed in russia. my colleagues and i monitor all publications in the press, and we also try to watch the statements of the local press authorities strangely enough, the local authorities... report a fairly large number of dead, but now it is not the heads of regions, as it was before, but the heads of village councils and school principals. plus, thanks to volunteers, we get printed publications, some village newspapers, because they publish a lot of obituaries. sometimes these are photos and videos from other events. for example,

recently there was some kind of sports tournament in honor of special forces, then there was a big poster behind with photos and names, and we just sat for several days and literally zoomed in the image was disassembled. in fact, journalists receive data on new graves in 70 cemeteries in russia, and here, by the way, is a picture of another cemetery in ryazan, which shows the appearance of new graves, and as evidenced by photos and videos from there, graves of soldiers and officers who fought in ukraine. a separate question is how russia recruits prisoners for the war, how many of them die from what. in 2022, prisoners from russian colonies were recruited by representatives of the wagner committee, personally the late founder of the prigozhin group, with the condition that after six months at the front, their criminal record would be cleared and let go since february of last year , the ministry of defense of russia has taken over the recruitment of prisoners, and the contracts

they sign have become virtually indefinite. let's take a closer look at what the bbc investigators managed to establish, so among the 900 confirmed dead prisoners , one thousand were singled out. about which it is known when they signed the contract and when they died. an analysis of these data showed that half of the prisoners who were in the unit of the russian ministry of defense died in the first two months at the front, and the wagner prisoners fought a little longer, three months such data do not mean that half of the recruited russian prisoners die in the war, because in general it is not known how many prisoners are fighting in the ranks of the russian army, but it is known that russia uses them for its assaults and in general, this bbc analysis shows that. .. russian losses in the second year of the war were greater, a quarter greater, what was possible to establish about this, i also asked volga ivshinova about this. in the first year , mostly contract servicemen fought in the most important areas of the front, they were there prepared, trained, knew how to interact

with each other, in the second year of the war, all the weight of the battles fell on poorly trained people, on those who came from civilian life voluntarily or by mobilization, or, for example, prisoners, but the point is that... firstly, they had very little training, and secondly, tactics had changed. now there are no complex tactical operations on the part of the russian troops, there are some isolated cases, but the main tactic is the so-called, as the soldiers themselves call it, the meat grinder. that is, these are people who go in the first wave. they are many in why risk dying quite quickly, because they simply perform this function, to identify firing points and aim artillery at them. there are two important factors here. the first is a change in tactics, i.e. they switched from professional servicemen to poorly trained soldiers, and the second is how they use prisoner units. the fact is that at first the prisoners were used en masse by the wagner pik. they must have trained them for two weeks and

equipped them quite well. and in wagner, the interaction between the various was established quite well units, but we note that the prisoners who fight under the guidance of the ministry of defense die a few days after... arriving at the front, that is, they have no training, it is known that some of them did not have it at all, just as they and they themselves inform their relatives, they have problems with supplies, they are periodically given rusty submachine guns, they are not given shovels with which they need to dig some trenches, they are often sent without first aid kits, and all this, of course, affects the life expectancy of soldiers, which is why on average servicemen imprisoned in contempt the ministry of defense die in two months, in agnerivka they die... in three, that is, life expectancy is shortened by four weeks. when these people leave the colonies, they certainly do not know what conditions they will find themselves in, after all, in the colonies there is a connection with the outside world, but it is limited, and all they have heard is practically from the wagnerites, who survived and had better conditions , so it turns out that many of them do not

understand what they are getting into, moreover, if previously according to the conditions of the wagnerites, it was necessary to survive at the front for only six months, and then you became free, now prisoners from... oleksandr kovalenko, mr. oleksandr, i welcome you on the air, that's actually how russia is currently using. prisoners during the storming of ukrainian positions, what strategies and tactics do they choose? good evening, yes, in principle, the tactics and strategy, they have not fundamentally changed, the word was used even in the times of vagne pmc, and what is the main task? the main task is to take a position very quickly, and to advance in one direction or another, regardless of the price of this advance, that is, the number. losses, and with this, they, with their advance

, distract and attract the attention of the artillery, which allows the russians , using the quantitative advantage in the conduct of artillery fire, to conduct a more powerful counter, a more powerful counter-battery fight, and that is, here two functions at the same time in constant waves, this is what is called how strong... assaults, what has already become known, they try to move forward, and when they receive a corresponding response from the same artillery component, they try to use countermeasures to the maximum to suppress the work of the ukrainian artillery, actually, how can the ukrainian military repel such assaults? and this is a very difficult task, the fact is that... artillery, especially ammunition with a cluster warhead, they are the most

effective in repelling such constant assaults from this wave after wave, but under the conditions that exist now, it is first, the shortage of artillery ammunition, we have a critical shortage, and also the fact that every shot can be risky, because there will be a counter-battery fight, we have to constantly choose... with what means to counteract, they are trying to counteract with drones, hpv drones, although this is not some kind of absolute panacea, it is also possible to counteract by mining fields with anti-personnel mines, and there is another very interesting component, also artillery, but more mobile, these are 120-caliber mortars, 82-caliber mortars and 60- caliber mortar wagon, it is also quite effective in defending the position from such assaults, but unfortunately, we lack even this component, but in general, if we talk about how many russian

troops are currently fighting against ukraine , and which one the number russia is trying to prepare, because we remember, president zelenskyy stated that russia is preparing an additional mobilization of 300,000 troops, plus reports that this creeping mobilization is taking place in russia, so what is the number of russian troops currently in the zone hostilities at more than 475 thousand personnel of the russian occupation forces, in addition to this number, near the border with ukraine are the so-called border protection groups, a group of troops, briyansk, kursk and belgorod, and they are, respectively, in in the bryansk, kursk and belgorod regions, together with the total number of trenches, it is approximately... 510-51500 personnel, and this is exactly the component

that is located in the temporarily occupied territories and along the border with ukraine. and the russian federation itself is currently preparing several army corps on the territory of the russian federation, after the inauguration of putin there is indeed a combat task, there is such a task of the military and political leadership, to organize the mobilization of approximately 300 thousand. personnel, and the ukrainian authorities are calling western partners to provide ukraine with more weapons, more weapons, in order to be ready for such scenarios. thank you, oleksandr kovalenko, military and political columnist of the information resistance group, was with us on the air. thank you. we talked about the bbc's investigation into russian losses in the war against ukraine. that's all. see you tomorrow.

greetings friends, the second part of the verdict program is live on the tv channel, my name is serhiy rudenko, it is being broadcast today. different conflicts, different. the west is not ready to defend ukraine the way it defends israel, twofold standards or unclear positions, interrupt the flow of enemy propaganda. ukraine will block questionable tiktok accounts when it's time to regulate telegram. extremists in cassocks. estonia may recognize the moscow patriarchate as a terrorist organization. why has the uoc still not severed the spiritual connection with moscow. we will talk about this and other things over the next 45 minutes on the air and not

only on the espresso tv channel, on our youtube platforms and. facebook, for those who are watching us live there now, put either please like this video, subscribe to our pages, and take part in our vote, today we ask you about whether you consider the russian orthodox church to be a terrorist organization, if you watch us on youtube, everything is quite simple, either yes or no , if you have your own opinion, a separate opinion, please write in the comments below this video, if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone. phones and vote if you consider the russian orthodox church a terrorist organization 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program and we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio, this is volodymyr fesenko, political scientist,

chairman of the board of the center for applied political research of penta. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good viktor boberenko, political scientist, expert of the bureau of policy analysis. mr. viktor, i congratulate you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good health. well, since we're asking our tv viewers about whether they consider the russian orthodox church a terrorist organization. i will ask you, gentlemen, what you think about it, mr. viktor. i don't understand much about religious issues, so i'll just say my feeling from myself. that the roc is the fifth column of russia in ukraine, and since we say that russia is a terrorist state, then all its institutions, and i consider the russian orthodox church exclusively one of the institutions of the russian federation, not only that, it is ideological and military resource, yes,

then yes, if russia is a terrorist state, then so be it her church is a terrorist church. thank you, mr. volodymyr, the roc is an ideological structure that serves the terrorist state, the russian federation, and justifies russia's state terror against ukraine. thank you, actually, why are we asking about the terrorist activities of the russian orthodox church, the reason for this was actually the situation in estonia that they want the moscow church. to recognize terrorist organizations there, and this information appeared earlier than today's resolution of the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe, which clearly defines what the russian orthodox church is. first about pare, today parye unanimously recognized the russian orthodox church as an instrument of kremlin propaganda and influence, and patriarch kirill and

the hierarchs of the russian orthodox church were recognized as accomplices of russia's crimes against ukraine in their names . so, what does the minister of internal affairs of estonia say? given the current context, i, as the minister of internal affairs, have no other choice but to... propose to the parliament to declare the moscow patriarchate a terrorist organization that supports terrorism in its activities. the minister of internal affairs can apply to the court and offer to stop the activity church organization operating here. it will not affect the parishioners. this does not mean that the temples will be closed, but it means that the ties with moscow will be severed. mr. viktor,

considering that pare believes that the russian orthodox church and... cyril and the hierarchy of the russian orthodox church are complicit in russia's crimes against ukraine in the name of russian peace, can we expect that the ukrainian authorities, referring to this resolution dude, you can already complete the work that the verkhovna rada of ukraine has started, regarding the determination of the status of the branch, the russian orthodox church or the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, well, in a word, these are the remnants. maybe it's not the remains of 10,000 parishes, it's still a fairly large structure that once worked for the kremlin officially, but now it works autonomously, you know. it certainly wants to break this gordian knot once and for all, to make a decision

there and somewhere else to ban something and we would rejoice and rub hands, but we must understand that the question is much more complicated, why, because the first thing is that in the moscow orthodox church, no, we only recognize the canonical one there somehow above. but after all, we are the ukrainian orthodox church, don’t get confused, it’s like that, i’m in a house, you know, we’re in a house, we have nothing to do with kirill’s statement, we’re ukrainian patriots, we have embroidered women under our robes, but there are also arguments, i travel a lot from there to one of the projects on the border communities of the sumy region, which are under fire, here i am, for example, to the north of the diet, where the district was, by the way, andrii derkach, yes the same famous one, there are almost no churches , well,

ocu, there is simply no, but there is such a community there, novoslabytska, yes the community, or putivska, they are not there, that is, the former puty, putivskyi district, none, and we must understand that people somewhere have to go to church, somewhere now easter is celebrated, yes, it is necessary, not only that, but a lot. .. fathers who, of course, er, and especially, especially in laurels, yes, but, let’s say, there are many fathers who mourn the fallen soldiers, who in their temples, well, if they, uh, talk about ukraine, about the pain for ukraine, they say that putin is also russia a terrorist state, that is, the fathers are different, well, although for me, well, i say that i... since i don’t really understand church matters, well, if you believe in ukraine, then go to the ocu, but at least one father i spoke with, he he says: well

, the bishop ordained me, but i can't transfer without him, but if he transferred, and i would transfer with him, well, in general, everything is complicated there, again we have to take into account the international aspect, and many will raise, well, the howl will rise in the swamps, but they will raise noise in the world through their structures, through ipso, through their... cans, but the same aunt the republican woman who is threatening johnson there, i can't remember her last name, she directly says that ukraine, well, it suits them to persecute christians there, but having in mind that they are persecuting the moscow patriarchate, it is not known what they will say to the pope , and so on the one hand i would really like their influence to be reduced, to be mini... and for them not to spy here, for them not to be a fifth column. as a person, a citizen of ukraine, a patriot of ukraine, i really want this. but i understand that where there is a question of faith, there it is

be very careful and make balanced decisions. even this same law, here is the estonian minister, as he said that we are in favor of severing the ties of the estonian orthodox with cyril and the russian patriarchate, but this does not mean that it... should be closed, that is, they too, if they want some actions, but a conspiracy, that is why our parliamentarians need to take some balanced steps and measure here seven times before making a decision, well, yes, thank you, mr. viktor, mr. volodymyr, it is obvious the possibility of these accusations that everything is not so good in ukraine from freedom... to her religion and this is what inhibits the adoption of cardinal decisions, to say the whole thing, the so- called moscow patriarchate no longer exists in ukraine, because it

could cause a reaction both in western europe and in the united states of america, but the pare resolution, does this give grounds for the ukrainian authorities to look in a completely different way, to say, well, there are meps, there is... a large institution of the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe, and they say that this church is a fellow student, but the only question is whether in this case it will be possible to talk about the connection the moscow patriarchate, which is now called the ukrainian orthodox church with the russian orthodox church, because they held a council and talked about the fact that we are supposedly autonomous, but in their prayers they still remember cyril and remember and... glorify him as a patriarch russian orthodox church. well, as for pare's resolution, it will definitely not be a decisive factor. and here is

an additional argument. when the draft law on the termination of the activities of organizations connected with the russian federation will be considered, and it is said in essence and about the uoc of the moscow patriarchate, yes, this will be an additional argument, quite weighty, i think supporters of this bill will use this argument, but i agree with my colleague, yes , here we need to act carefully, balanced, i would say systematically and consistently. i really hope that the relevant state structures of ukraine, not only the verkhovna rada, but also the structures of the executive power, there are now professional people who are engaged in this, who know the situation well, they should now develop a strategy for what to do with the uoc of the moscow patriarchate, because a simple legislative decision is not enough, it is necessary to really transform this number, this church, change,

gradual leadership, reduce, neutralize those people who are connected to moscow, you, who most aggressively, let's say, actually oppose ukraine , well here the sbu is already doing its job, i think it should continue, so here is the sequence of actions in order to transform this church, make it ultimately ukrainian, because if nothing is done, well, it will not be easy... potential the fifth column is a slow-acting mine, especially in certain regions, so yes, it should be one of the important directions of state ideological policy, ideological policy in particular, not just informational and cultural, because it is about such a significant institution that affects social life, and the resolution of pare, well, i would not exaggerate the importance of pare, we

had different stages of relations, institution. is very important, and ukraine has always actively worked in the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe, and now this is the case, as the decision that corresponds to our interests, and this decision will have to be used both within the country, that is, for the necessary legislative decision, and abroad, i absolutely agree with my colleague, we now know not only this ms. marjorie green, who is actively working not only on uoc mp, and against giving to ukraine. aid, there are whole structures, the navinskys are financing whole structures in the usa, which are lobbying for this anti-ukrainian campaign, with accusations against ukraine, and unfortunately, this must be taken into account, no, this does not mean that we have to go for concessions, but this campaign must be neutralized, but we must act in such a way that, well, let's say so, we do not throw such unnecessary arguments at these most radical trumpists, and we must understand that the very

existence of this... church is probably a matter of national security and defense and and simply consider this issue exclusively in the interests of the ukrainian state and the present and future, taking into account all these 10,000 parishes, because it is, well, it is a very large network in fact, and viktor says that there is no ukrainian orthodox church in the sumy oblast further north churches, there is the pcu, the ocu, and there is the uoc, well, for sure , it is also a mystery to me, why the confusion. my native sumy, why, why are there so many moscow churches there, and people, well, sometimes i just didn’t say, derkach, the influence of derkach, yes, and not only derkach, i didn’t let derkach go there, yes, he held everything back there, yes , yes, but one more story, gentlemen, this is the story of the existence of various platforms that influence the information space of ukraine, not television, not facebook. and tiktok and

telegram, about telegram during the latter in the past month, there was a lot of talk about the fact that the ukrainian authorities should keep in touch with those who administer and promptly resolve issues regarding these channels that work against ukraine, which carry out very extensive informational and subversive work. now they are talking about tiktok, the center for countering disinformation at the national security council will block the community. dubious accounts, said the deputy head of the department alina bondarchuk. let's listen to mrs. bondarchuk. we have already given a list of tiktok accounts that should not be viewed, it is on our website of the center countering disinformation in all social networks. we have given this list, and then we will move on to blocking. just a couple more days and we will start blocking them. there is a lock in the system.