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hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like-minded to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for intelligent and caring people, in the evening at espresso. expensive friends, we are back on the air, now i am looking at... this fee, and yes, uah 1,98,910, and then in a second it updates to uah 1,98,960. i understand that at this very moment someone donated 50 hryvnias, gave up maybe one or two coffees today, and this money went to a good noble cause, to fividrons for our military, so qr code, do as you did , man, instead of coffee, something good

will save your heart. well, in the meantime, we will talk about india and how the elections that have started there, which will continue until of june, affect ukraine and the ukrainian-russian war. mridu lagosh, indian historian, internationalist, human rights activist, political scientist, doctor of philosophy, joins us, and i would also say, a great patriot of ukraine, even among ukrainians, mm, where. there are no such patriots like mrs. mridula, good day everyone, good day, eh, the elections that start today and will last for six weeks, why so long, and actually, what will this election mean for india itself, but also for ukraine? it's so hard and so simple at the same time question, because we are a democratic country and...

we will not refuse the elections, but you know that we are a federal country, and now the elections will be for the central parliament, and the central parliament is currently in power. the party in general is a coalition of about 35, the national democratic alliance, 27 other parties united against it, this alliance is called india, simply and these are the leading parties in which they will compete, this is the ruling party, the indian national congress, which is in the opposition, there is a communist party of marxists, there is a bagujjan, sama... kady parties, well, i won’t list them, national peoples party and so on, that is, there are 23 more parties that will neither be blocked there nor there, they will compete separately, there are a lot of these precincts, districts, it’s a lot, and

generally somewhere, you know , the city will have 543 seats in the parliament, a lot of people will compete throughout the country, each state has a certain... number of deputies who will be elected, i will not be structurally anymore, you can read all these things on wikipedia, i do not have these data here i will waste time, what is the significance for ukraine, well first of all, i will say that foreign policy has never been on the agenda of the middle of india, that is, it is not such a question that will have to be raised and talked about, but such questions are being asked now, because it is for... in principle, the interests of each people, because today the world is not such that it is closed and everything is only internal issues, however, i think that the authorities are trying to position how the image of india was raised, even for the common people,

you know, there are a lot of questions about ukraine, they already know that this is ukraine, because every day they have seen and already know what it is some country separately does not... russia, at least so, further, so, but there is very serious russian propaganda, which also affects, but it does not affect the elections inside india, because the opposition and the government, they do not touch this issue very much, however, i do not think that there will be any significant changes, but there is already a separation from russia, this is india's strategic choice, and what kind of government and what kind. these parties, they will all position themselves, we are a neutral country, and there will be such a thing, you know, it will be said in a certain way that we are with russia, but we are also with ukraine, because foreign policy is changing a little now, it's simple and

many people already understand what ukraine is, why this issue is important, and what russia is, this awareness has already been there a little during these two years. i would say this for sure, although there are already people in the media, there are publications, there are people who will support, but not so openly, although there are people who will now even say that the prime minister called putin and called zelensky , and the war stopped, for a few hours, and 22 students were saved, well it's all propaganda, it's not true, that's why there's such a plan. campaigns are also being made, i just have a lot of funny details that are not very funny, it's funny to mention it, but at least, you know, it will determine who will come to power, it's incredible, and sociologically and philologists, they

say that it will be and same party, it will win, but what will be the percentage in... in this matter, the elections are not the same as monotonous, let's say, the elections in different places will be different, each state has separate issues, separate problems, in the south and east there the ruling coalition may definitely not win, the percentage may be a little less, and they have their own states where they are more, this is the north a little bit and the northwest a little bit, these are such, but they can... win, they have a lot of cities , they claim, but maybe the number will decrease a little, it is not yet possible to say that no one will draw anything in advance now, you know, the main question for ukrainians, it seems to me that it is also important in this context, we somehow

see that the world today is divided into those who actively support us, actively support russia, these are authoritarian regimes, and countries that, relatively speaking, try to maintain some... neutrality, in relation to narendra modi, who has been in power for more than 10 years, many people write that for him it is personal, relatively speaking, such a vote of confidence in the continuation of his line of government, but he has been criticized more than once in recent years for authoritarian tendencies that are intensifying, whether the election of modi may not be such a risk that india will be more and more an ally for the russian federation? i wouldn't say so, first of all, you know, authoritarianism, yes, it is a trend, it is very serious. an internal threat, there are those who think differently, and those

journalists, those people, they are having a hard time now, internal issues can be talked about a lot, there are certain, let’s say, you know, against, national and religious minorities a little bit, but frankly it is does not show, fashion can go to saudi arabia, conclude contracts in the emirates, open temples. they have excellent business relations, young people understand very well that this kind of business, he understands it very well and the business lobby is behind him, but there are problems with elementary freedom of expression, it is definitely there, it was less during the congress, but still it was also impossible to negotiate, because he was there then the state of emergency from 1975 to 1979, and a lot of intellectuals were arrested there, a lot. problems will also be a serious challenge for fashion:

china is now approaching russia, which is a clear threat to india? india doesn't think so much about pakistan now, because they have less of a problem there, but it is a threat to india much more, it is china. therefore , any approximation is already obvious. and this is one such moment, another moment, mody has a serious... such relations with israel mody supported at first, when there was an attack, this rocket attack, hamas, then immediately supported israel, and this was a departure from traditional politics and support for palestine, then in the un, the voting was somehow changed, and there then they voted for or abstained or something like that, so you know, it’s like sitting on two chairs, so to speak, yes, what we can see from the outside, but that’s it he will do balancing, i think that now they are also actively negotiating

peace summits, and maybe they will participate, so i am not sure, i cannot say this in advance, but it is a very serious, serious sign that the minister of foreign affairs dmytro kuleba recently visited india, and this is already a big plus, because you know that, this did not happen, in 2017 pavlo klimkin went and after that this meeting, then it is very important, india allocated, announced already in january that it allocates a grant, of course, that's pennies, compared to funds that ukraine needs, but india gives this grant only to neighboring countries, what kind of grant is this, it is a small community development, at a small public level, that is, at the village level. certain such communities, communities, and this tap of 1.5 million dollars, well, a very small amount,

but it is a step, ukraine is ready to accept it and the memorandum has not yet been signed, but india is waiting for the memorandum to be signed and these funds will go to the restoration at this level, and this is already a step, that is, i do not want to say completely, but there are, there are 16 different parties of humanitarian aid has already been transferred. for that they do not give weapons, because there is a policy of neutrality, just as austria does not give, and switzerland does not give, that is , neutral countries do not give weapons to others, although , you know, india gives arms to the armenians, that is, it is a policy there, you say, that dmytro kuleba recently visited, and this is good, because it is some kind of improvement of such diplomatic relations, but how did they affect the old man? to ukraine, these are the statements made, for example, by people's deputy merezhko, that india does not want

to cooperate with ukraine, as they reacted to the statement of the advisor to the president's office mykhailo as for india's low intellectual potential, how were those words received? it is very bad, because you know, such statements, you know, we have freedom of speech in ukraine, and i use it, i am very glad, but still. you know, saying such things about other countries while sitting in such positions is very important, it gives very bad signals, because mr. merezhko... heads the foreign affairs committee, it seems, of the supreme council, and mr. podolyak is an adviser, a freelance staff , i don't know, but he is a close person, and he is very often expresses his, well, positions to the state, so such statements from those people are of course not well received, but this is a kind of damage control,

ours understand that these are not the persons who simply said some personal words, but before that... well, it's a pity done the second very important point, all the statements are public, and when there is a public statement, you can see now on x, this former twitter or somewhere, that russia is using these statements as propaganda. russia does not need anything, they will show it, see how ukrainians say about india and everything. that is, here very difficult. it just does clip and paste, subtitles in english, even and... we're in languages, and it gets annoying, and it's a billion, a billion people, and, well, it's not a joke, it's just a boomerang effect, it's just, well, then it goes really bad , then correct everything that has been done, i am not saying that we should be silent about the problems that exist in india, but the ukrainian government today

should not do this, because these are internal problems, analysts can say... , experts speak, but at the state level i have not heard such statements, with the exception of these two this is, of course, a very harmful statement, it does not represent these statements first of all, the parliament does not represent it like that, it is just a personal statement, so that is not enough, i want to add a little, mr. merezhko knows india very well, he worked at the opijin university for two years before being a people's deputy. and he taught international law there, so it is very, very strange to me why he makes such statements, if he knows this country, what prevents him from going, lecturing those people and changing, so as not to declare that india does not want to be friends, to do something so that india and india are more friendly, that is, they need to invest their time in this, as

we all do every day, in fact, this is also a manifestation when in... the majority of deputies are prohibited from any contacts and travel abroad, this surprisingly, this violates the law on the status of a people's deputy, at the same time , such statements, which are made by agreed deputies, actually cause a lot of damage, we see how it happens. mrs. mrila, i also wanted to ask about a recent such case, let's say, which was discussed a little bit, which is currently happening in ukraine certain such decolonization. tion, let's say cultural, a lot of russified or russified regions are now trying to return to the ukrainian identity, this is actually a question of survival, a question of mobilization, again in a state of war on the destruction of the state, and when the enemy is actually trying to deny the very existence

of ukrainians as a nation , as an ethnos, as a separate culture, accordingly, this question of life and death is existential. and in these processes of decolonization, especially for central and eastern ukraine, they are extremely present relevant, we ask ourselves questions every day, how should we, for example, treat, well , relatively speaking, until now, the figure of mikhail bulgakov, a famous russian writer who was born, it seems, was born in kyiv, yes, lived his whole life in in kyiv, well, not all his life, he died in moscow, it seems, but he lived a large part of his life and loved kyiv very much, but did not love ukrainians. loved ukrainians in kyiv, and the ukrainian presence, and the ukrainian language, and he is, as it were, an imperial writer, but at the same time a great a kyivan who is somehow inscribed in the world context. how does india cope with those representatives of the british colonial

policy, which obviously, starting with rudyard kipling himself, who was born in india. he lived there for a large part of his life in india and in principle he wrote extensively, mostly about india, he wrote about india, but he also had a bit of such a reticence, this reticence, an attitude, first of all, this is not forgotten, and colonial decolonization is when you write about yourself, it is not you who is talking about others, but you you do it yourself, your version of the story, not someone else's writing. history, not someone talking about you, that's what i think, it's the first, uh, decolonization also, when others write, they have the right, but do they have a status and... like, you know, official or something like that, i i think that kipling definitely does not belong to that group of people, and we have, you know, this spiritual

renaissance, i would say, decolonization - this is a very complex psychological and philosophical process of realizing ourselves and the essence of our existence, and why we rallied, we are fighting against something, and this awareness ... comes intellectually at such a level, you can not read hundreds of books, but the fact that back then, look, we have a very long history of this, it even preceded independence, that is, 100-150 years, that's all continued, and this is a slightly different trajectory of history than in ukraine, in ukraine, when this process began, it was when aggression began, before that i didn't really hear people talking about colonization. with the exception of a very small number of people, let's say, the very word colonization was not used, i agree with that too i was looked at with strange eyes when i

started talking about the gandas in this context, and very few people there realized this, but it is never too late, ukraine is solving these issues in extremely difficult conditions, we did not have such a war, we had a slightly different one history, that's why... we can't compare, but deconization is a process, a very slow process too, for example, in my childhood i still saw streets that had british names, but then they changed already when i, well, grew up, well, that's how i became an adult a person, that is, i am these i saw the changes myself, that is, it was done gradually for about 20-30 years, for example, today there is a different trend, today the government makes fashion... even more so, during the other mongolian rule, which was already there for six hundred years, almost changed these names to hindu names, that is, this is a very

serious debate with us, it's just that the mongolian rule was not considered colonial, so we have a slightly different trajectory, and for the british, we respect shakespeare, we respect those english languages, but they, they are not.. . from the point of view, you know, they were not born kiplin, they were born like this other people, writers too, and not the place of birth determines creativity and views, it determines, for example, kipling is not very popular here, i would say popular, and the second is, for example, churchill, yes, churchill is such a famous figure, everything is very , the second world war, it’s very like that, but... in our country, churchill is generally a very disrespected person, because he caused the famine, he caused terrible things, and that’s why he is not respected in india, that’s why these things are possible,

national, national interest, national optics, which actually determines this and that departure from someone else's from someone else's point of view, what are we talking about, ms. mridula, thank you very much for this conversation, mridula, an indian historian, an international human rights activist, political scientist, was with us. a doctor of philosophy and a great patriot of ukraine, god forbid that ukrainians speak ukrainian well, i hope that mr. merezhko watched our conversation and realized that he himself needs to learn something, including from the indian people, well, the great indian nation , well, which one, which has, well , in fact, probably the deepest, greatest tradition in the world, in the world, resting from vedas and... mahabgarat and well, it's just that i don't know what we're talking about with merezhko, if he doesn't understand this, talking about some illiterate and uneducated indians there. dear friends, we still have an hour

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