they are already supplied to ukraine, i think that a decision will also be made to allow ukraine to strike american weapons on russian territory, but it is a pity that this is done only reactively, not proactively, that is, the russians have answers to the russian escalation, but the united states will fear that they will be drawn into a war, that there is no will in the american public to go to war with russia, that's for sure, there is none among the democrats, nor among the... republicans, i mean the average person, nor among independent voters, well, but will it be necessary to involve the united states in the war, if ukraine is between atc missiles, let's say, to strike at russian troops concentrated on the border with kharkiv region, for example, i am not sure that this is the case, although of course, neither i nor you, we have no intelligence that can say something, something opposite to what we think. in

principle, speaking, now you and i have seen what is happening with russian-chinese cooperation, how much do you think for washington is this rapprochement important and can the united states really influence the people's republic of china to reduce the level of military-technical support to moscow? for washington, of course, this is important, and in the united states everyone considers it dangerous, moreover. it is independent of political parties, democrats and republicans hold the same opinion, and that the rapprochement between russia and china is dangerous, and high-ranking officials of the united states have repeated many times that uh, the supply by the people's republic of china is unacceptable russian components that are used to make weapons, that sanctions will be introduced already more than 100 chinese... companies are under

american sanctions, and blinken warned while in china that recently, if china does not stop, then the united states will stop it , by the way, there was interesting information the other day that china's exports to russia decreased in april, that is, this may mean that there is a certain reaction from china, there is a certain fear that if everything is kept... at the same level, then indeed the united states may impose more sanctions against more chinese companies, and xi jinping is certainly not interested in slowing down the chinese economy further, so i think one can hope that china will be more cautious, although china has workarounds, it can to supply russia with anything through north korea, for example, and to say that it is not us, that is, this way is also possible, although

it should be noted that the united states just two days ago introduced sanctions against a number of russian officials and companies through which north korean weapons are supplied to russia. mr. igor, how does washington react to china's peace plan, which they presented, and putin is with him, so to speak, supported it, and what will happen... the official attitude of the united states to this plan is negative, because at all levels of official the united states supports the plan of ukraine, that is, the 10 points of the peace plan of ukraine that were, were officially formulated by the president of ukraine zelenskyi, and the united states officially supports the position of ukraine, that is, for the position.

the sino-chinese agreement is unacceptable, and american high-ranking officials have repeated many times that it is simply unacceptable to give russia time to prepare a new offensive, to have more weapons, to prepare more troops, that is, this russian - the chinese plan is unacceptable for washington, and how can washington react if china still promotes and strengthens this peace plan for... ukraine, maybe sanctions, or china will still be more careful then to promote this peace plan? i think that i agree with mr. vitaly on this, he has repeatedly said that this so-called chinese-russian peace plan is primarily designed so that more countries of the global south are not at the mercy of ukraine, but that they supported this russian-chinese so-called peace plan. and the demarche of the hungarian minister

of foreign affairs is characteristic here at the meeting of the committee of ministers of the council of europe, when he actually called for support. exactly this so-called peace plan, although hungary is not a country of the global south, well, it is, it is, it is, we all know what it is, i think that the united states will try, on the contrary , to convince the countries of the global south to support exactly the ukrainian peace plan, so that they support the ukrainian position, and i think that now the fight is about how many heads of state. will participate in the summit in switzerland in june, and of course russia and china will try to do their best to countries from the global south participated, well, for example, the president of brazil has already announced that he will not go there because russia will not be there, the united states will

try, i think on the contrary, to have as many countries from the edge of the global south as possible to be there and supported the ukrainian peace plan itself, that is... in fact, we can say that it has become such an element of the global confrontation. on the one hand , the united states, european countries, on the other hand, russia and china, that is, nato, the european union, brics and the war in ukraine, in fact only confirmed this fact. yes, that's exactly how it is, that's exactly the kind of confrontation that exists, and, unfortunately, we have to state that today most countries of the global. they are not with the countries of a democratic or liberal civilization, although, let's say, if we consider a country like india, it is still somewhere in the middle, it is interesting whether the indian prime minister modi will be, whether

he will be in switzerland, whether he will attend this summit or not, but india is trying, so to speak, to cut ties with russia, to balance relations with china, and at the same time there is a certain rapprochement between india and the united states, last year the indian prime minister visited the united states, and that is to say, things are going like this , there is such a struggle for that, that the countries of the global south should support democratic civilization. in turn, russia and china are trying to ensure that most of the countries of the industrial south are with them, and not with the civilized world. such is the real situation now in the global south, which of these countries supports this one the russian-chinese plan, who is more inclined to the ukrainian peace formula,

please tell us more about it. well , we don't know about india, yes, because not yet india has not... announced whether it will take part in the swiss summit, if so, at what level, but brazil has decided that it will not be present there, at least in the person of the president, because russia will not be there, that is , brazil has decided, well, not for the first time with its position, if we consider the position of african countries, then, unfortunately, most of them have not are not with western civilization, it is necessary to consta. this is the way it is, and western countries and ukrainian diplomacy need to work much more in this direction, and what is very unfortunate is that in fact the countries of central africa are either actually captured by russia or are now under

russian influence, where coups have taken place in several central african countries, niger was the last country where this happened, actually, actually it's bad because... you know, the more, the more places in the world where the west comes from, where it goes from liberal civilization, which means that there will be more places where authoritarianism will prevail, it was so, it has always been so, it was so, for example, even during the cold war, if the united states came out from somewhere, then the soviet union declared itself there, the best example of this is vietnam, for example, well, well, well... cheap, so this struggle is, it continues, it will, will continue, it is impossible better, better situation in asia, where the united states is trying to do so , so that more countries support the democratic

world, that is, the united states, australia, novaya zealand is in confrontation with chinese, economic and political, and military expansion, but in relation to, let's say, the country. africa, unfortunately, the west is losing today, this struggle for influence on these countries. we thank ihor eisenberg, professor. ambassador of georgia to ukraine, russia and moldova against the background of our conversation about what is happening in his country. mr. valery, congratulations, thank you for the invitation, we are very pleased to be with you. mr. valery, the law on inagents, a scandalous law, was adopted in the final reading, which foresees what will be further after the adoption of this law. can, for example, the president of georgia veto this law and not pass it further? yes,

the majority of georgian citizens believe that this law is an attack not only on european aspirations, yes, euro-atlantic aspirations of georgia, but also an attack on the fundamental freedoms of georgia, yes, freedom of speech, expression, etc., that's why it was. it is expected that it is expected that the president of georgia will veto, she did, and now we are in the next phase of the political process, and the parliament is forced to consider this law again, and apparently they will try to override the president's veto, but i'm not sure they will. because they need a majority of 76

votes in order to overcome this veto, and now the state of events is such that the leadership of the georgian dream is very close to sanctions, they have never been so close to sanctions as now, and he said that. jim obryan, deputy secretary of state, anthony blinken, by the club, he was in tbilisi, and as they say, as we know, 34 deputies have their, their family members in europe and the united states, so it's 76. votes, it's not not sure, i'm not sure that they will be in

the ruling party, but how or, how is it, if it happens that they overcome the veto of the president, ms. solome zurabishvili, then there will be the next phase of the political process, because we will go to the constitutional court, because this law is unconstitutional, we have 70. the eighth article of the constitution, which does this law contradict? in principle, all these attempts, on the one hand, to leave this law in force, and on the other hand, to agree with the measure, which we have seen recently, are these maneuvers or is it due to the fear of certain people? no, i'm me i do not see, mr. vitaly, any attempts to negotiate with the party. right now

, the ruling party of the georgian dream is in a very tough spiral of confrontation with our western partners. you see, on the one hand, they say that this is the law, this is the european law, but all our friends are friends at events. in europe, in the united states they tell us that you see, this, this is not a european, not a european law, and it will not contribute to our, our efforts to get closer to the european union and the euro-atlantic, of the euro-atlantic community, voices that only from... you say, so to speak, but gentlemen, gentlemen lavrov, peskov, medvedev and,

icing on the cake, dugi, say that this is a very good, this is a very good law, which will preserve sovereignty and independence of georgia and so on, so it's clear, it's clear that, that this, and... and and ba, but, but the ruling party, knowing, uh, such, uh, you know, such about the pro-european, pro-european aspirations of the eight.

are not very very strong, and the georgian society, i think that these protests that we have seen in the last month in tbilisi and not only in tbilisi, in all of them and in batumi, and in kutaisi and in other places of georgia, it is very, very clear that georgian society no longer buys into these narratives. mr. valery, how can this law on foreign agents affect georgia's european integration, maybe the european union will reconsider its relations with your country? there is such a possibility, and our european partners are openly talking about it,

they are talking about the fact that the status of the candidate, which... we received at the end of last year, can be stopped, and they are also openly saying that the visa-free regime can be suspended, and it will be, it will be such a, such a development of actions that i do not know what will happen on the streets of tbilisi, if they do it, that's why and frankly. frankly, our partners say that this law, this, it will not only stop our movement towards the european union, it will distance us from the european union, and what determines or determines that the positions that we have now, we can spend these are the positions, and if, if you keep it in mind, it

applies first of all to our... and she must first of all find some solution, because to overcome this crisis, into which she has plunged the country with her nonsense. the decision to return this law for consideration in the parliament, mr. valery, but what is happening on the streets now in the capital of georgia, we saw an insane amount of support and ukrainians on the streets of the georgian capital, are the rallies continuing, is

the situation so calm now? no, it continues, because because... such young people are the main engine of these protests, now more than 30 universities and other educational institutions in georgia, strikers are now on strike, and every day we see young people. above all the youth on the streets of piliz, but i, in my opinion, a very powerful demonstration will be organized in the streets of felicia on the day when the ruling party will put on the agenda of the parliament the consideration of the veto, madam, madam

president, and we will to see, i am sure, the demonstration that we saw on may 11, when more than 200,000 citizens, first of all tvilians, would have been on the streets of the police, and this clearly says that the georgian dream has already lost the capital of georgia, if we are now... well, now we are thinking about the next election, which will be held in october, and the party that loses, loses, loses the capital, ah, it will lose the election, and that's it, that's the rule, which we, which we saw in all the elections that took place in

georgia, and tell me, independence, how do you feel about this strange version, which has been actively spreading lately, that ivanishvili is acting like this because the ruptures or cooling of ties with the event can lead to the restoration of territorial. integrity of georgia at the expense of creation some kind of confederal association with abkhazia and south ossetia, it seems to me that this is absolutely political fiction, but it is seriously discussed in journalistic and expert circles, where did it all come from, i agree with you, mr. vitay, that it is an absolute fantastic, because i conducted negotiations with the russians for 30 years, in various such guises, i was... an ambassador and as part of a state delegation, i headed the international organization of black sea

cooperation, where russia was also a member, and i have seen, i have seen everything from the side of the russians, and they will never do anything in favor of georgia, i am sure of that, and if we... now, now there are such speculative, speculative thoughts about confederation, so what, but in order to make a confederation, first of all, georgia must decide on the independence of abkhazia and the tskhinali region, like this, and if we recognize the independence of abkhazia, then this is a chain reaction, and abkhazia is the tskhnenava region, the tskhenvalsky region. region, their independence will be recognized by several, i will not i know how many countries will still join for this for this decision, and then to make some kind

of confederation there, so this is this, this is this, this is not a fantasy, but this is a trap, as if these versions are considered in moscow, but i am sure, and all my experience, negotiations and work with the russians say that even this version is not working for moscow, it is not considered, and this is the weakness of the russian position, because they are not ready for it. .. to these decisions, and i, i'm sure that this, this, this is fantastic, and if this is not fantasy, this is pasto, and both of

these options are dangerous, dangerous options for georgia, they, they, they are not necessary, they should not be seriously considered, because, because it will not lead us to anything good, thank you , thank you, mr. valeriy, valerishvili. russian diplomat, the former ambassador of georgia to ukraine, the russian federation and the republic of moldova was in touch with us. mr. vitaly, i want to return again to china's peace plan. i caught myself thinking, we're going to talk about the peace plan again. in your opinion, why? so much attention is paid to it? will china still have a big impact? well, i think the question is not even that this is china's peace plan, the question is that this is an alternative to a peaceful settlement, which is proposed by ukraine. and by and large, this again creates, as mr. valery chichalashvili says, a fantasy or a trap, because they propose such a settlement that is unlikely

to become real, but if it is real, then it is its own trap, that is the plan of ukraine , such ukraine wants to present at the summit on alfalfa, and this plan implies the restoration of territorial integrity. reparations, the actual withdrawal of russian troops from the territory of ukraine, the freedom of ukraine to choose its political future, well, you offer this plan not only to the countries of the west, but also to the countries of the global south, who ask a fairly simple question, this is all wonderful, it is wonderful, you are here performed, everything was beautifully said, but how are you going to achieve this? if you do not have the technical capabilities to expel russia from the territories it occupied and are glad that it cannot now occupying kharkiv is a completely different thing if

you cannot finish it off. no reparations, instead it destroys your infrastructure every day, so in a few more years of war you won't have anyone to receive these reparations, because everyone will just leave at least the big cities, without electricity, heat and all that, if you can't force russia recognize the ukrainian status of the territories occupied by it, we can first stop the war, and then deal with it somehow, because if you continue the war, you will not have a population left, so what you? offer, well, you yourself can realize that you are just there on the verge of death, and this is china saying: well, let's just freeze the war there, without any security guarantees, without recognition of the fact of occupation, without any reparations, monetary compensations, but really , and ukraine should not in this situation recognize the russian status of the ukrainian lands occupied by russia, which putin demands, well

, this is a pseudo-compromise, but this pseudo-compromise is absolutely unacceptable from the point of view of europe, because it destroys the world order that was established in 20 to century, you see, and we immediately fall into 19, and that's basically what russia and china are trying to achieve, i think we're already there, by and large, we're just going to have to realize it at some point, because that's the idea no... violation of borders, this is a huge achievement of the 20th century, in the 201st century we hoped that we would be able to cement these fundamental principles of international law even more seriously and transfer them from the european continent to another continent in the world, where no such there are no boundaries violated, where in fact, there are still territorial disputes, let

them be there in the asian-tehai region, but they do exist, here i will give you an excellent example, there we are talking about chinese territorial claims to india, but these are not exactly chinese territorial claims to india, it was an independent the state of tibet, which was annexed by china, conditionally speaking, as a kind of tuvan people's republic by the soviet union, and china, actually speaking on behalf of the annexed territory, demands to give it back to india. her own state, which was indeed formerly part of tibet, in the same way as russia, acting on behalf of the occupied donbass, says, please give kramatorsk slavic, this is the same thing, that is, it is the transfer of the same, i would say, morality to the european continent, and this is a huge problem, so that by and large we are simply returning to the 19th century, in the 19th century the borders of states

changed. constantly, well, if we just look at the map of europe in the 19th century, something moved there, something here, there were constant conflicts, there were this, and now we have such clear idea that we have to stop it somehow, although i don't know how, i don't have a clear understanding of how the west wants to respond to these challenges, unless it really wants russia to suffer some kind of punishment for its actions, if it still exists in ... fetishization of the border, there is the sovereign border of russia, you cannot shoot there, and if it is not the sovereign border of russia, you can destroy everything you want there, if we recognize the independence of the republic of kosovo from you, then we hesitate from this republic of kosovo to recognize the possibility of the existence of an association of serbian moni municipalities for its serbian minority, this is what happened this week and serbia does not

recognize. neither the independence of the republic of kosovo, nor the fact that the serbian inhabitants of this republic are citizens of the republic of kosovo at all, it continues to perceive all this as serbia, and thus we have here an absolutely unsustainable settlement plan, in the balkans an absolutely unsustainable settlement plan, bosnia is a territorially integrated country with the republic of serbia recognized as part of this state, all this is absolutely not working, but the west speaks for us we can't redraw the map somehow. bosnia and herzegovina, well, no, no one can say, well, how are we going to live with all this, either you agree that the population of each country must respect the principles of international law, or you are looking for some other flexible ,