brian: we gave you the stuff questions. david, thank you for being here. take a bow. taylor: counting down to 2:00 p.m., stocks mostly higher to start the week. nasdaq, s&p 500, all on pace for record closes. of course you guys, it is a biggie in terms of earnings coming tomorrow morning, macy's, lowe's, talking about home homee building, lowe's will be a interesting one. can you still have record highs? can you still have weakness in the consumer? which one is right? jackie: i'm watching dow 40,000, doesn't look like today unless something major changes. brian: i want to see lowe's, i want to see if the home depot story was home depot story or lowe's in that space. it will tell us. taylor: we'll know the answer in 24 horse. first, "making money" with charles payne. starts right now. charles: i hope you all had a great weekend, thanks a lot. good afternoon, everyone, i'm

charles payne. this is "making money." breaking right now the market has moved on to animal spirits. you are remember animal spirits. here is the question, which animal has the greatest chance of long-term survival? we're talking about high-risk versus low risk approaches to life and investing. meanwhile nvidia getting a major boost ahead of wednesday's earning. after three more brokerage firms raised their target. i have to be honest i never seen a stock this beloved ahead of earnings. what can go wrong? we had two guests who recommended this stock at much lower levels. they will share their thoughts. is it time for small caps to be gig? gary k. where the action is right now. copper and silver, and gold how long will they shine? tracy shuchart is spot on as usual. we'll find out if she is still riding a the wave on these rallies. my take on the greatest sin, high interest rates or high borrowing? all that and more on

"making money." charles: so, we always talk about an pool spirits when the market is at all-time highs well think are different kinds of animal spirits. a couple years ago, research, herbivores make tasty meals for lions, they have a remarkable survivability. carnivores have long lifespan. the market is driven by these unusual animal spirits. we're talking gambling spirits are back. a lot of speculation. a lot of time that means short-lived moves. the upside has been very powerful. enough to get a giant wall street bear on board. mike wilson, welcome to the party, my friend. he sees the s&p 500 going do 5400. although that is not much higher than where we are right now. it is higher than his prior target. 20% in fact higher than his

prior target. parade of fed speakers continues folks. i'm sorry i can't stop them. continues message high for longer. the fed is beginning to soft sell the message higher forever, at least for a long time. i will bring in b. riley wealth management chief market strategist art hogan. art, i find it interesting after an avalanche of harmful economic data, right, look i'm showing on the screen right now the economic surprise chart. on the right-hand side is a cliff, falling off the cliff are economic date f all of them have missed. all of sudden that makes wall street bullish. which camp are you in? >> i'm in the bullish camp and i will tell you why. i think when you weed it out everything we've seen so far in 2024 in terms of economic data the biggest surprises have come arguably in earnings, right? so what really matters to us at the end of the day are earnings better than expected, and certainly they were in the first quarter, hooking for 3 1/2% on consensus. came in about 5.4%.

so clearly a better picture. more importantly guidance went up at the same time. you look at guidance for the rest of this year and for the next 12 months and they have gone up about 3%. when you look at that, sort of weed through all the mixed messages from the economic data stream the good news earnings continue to grow. they continue to grow because of gdp, atlanta fed has it pegged at 3.2% in second quarter. consumer continues to spend and earnings that continue to grow. charles: my whole beef with the earnings game, i will call it a game, is that one year ahead of time the earnings are high, right? let's call it 200. and as time goes on these earnings drift down to 170, maybe a week before they go to 180. then they come in at 190. then they crush the estimates and the market is off. listen the game works this way. in the beginning when they're at 200 the market goes up to your point look how high earnings estimates are. when they beat the lowered

numbers they go up again because they beat the street although this time around it hasn't really worked, right? we see beats go up very small and misses get hammered pretty hard. feels like maybe something else is nagging this market even though we're at all-time highs, art? >> you bring up a real by good point. the only thing i would rebut with charles, twofold. a, earnings estimates for the first quarter went up four the first quarter they usually come down. they went up for the first quarter they handily beat. the second thing is more important, the reaction function. clearly at all-time highs. stocks are priced to modicum of perfection. we saw some of the misses like meta. talk about how much they spent but not how much they're making on artificial intelligence. had massive reaction to the downside. i would agree with you the reaction function is much more negative for misses than it is positive for the companies that beat. charles: art, on the other side of this of course last year we saw multiple expansion. of course the year before that was the exact opposite.

is it, it doesn't still feel like it's one of these markets where you can throw a dart. it still feels stock specific. you have to go in there knowing specifically what you want to own and what you want to risk. >> yeah i think that is very much true this year but the good news is, we talk about multiple expansion at the end of march before we had the april drawdown if you looked at the almost 5300 on the s&p, about 6% or 7% of that was coming from multiple expansion, only 3% from earnings. after the first-quarter earnings report we've seen that's balanced out now. we're up 12% on the s&p 500 year-to-date. that is half and half. 6% from multiple expansion, 6% from earnings growth. i think that is much more intuitive place to be but to your point stock election and sector selection has been very important. we're starting to see that broaden out. like on our barbell we like energy that outperformed all other sectors in terms of earnings reports in the first quarter. health care has a lot of catchup to do. we think small caps certainly have a place in your portfolio

this year. charles: to all areas that you can argue certainly have not, there was a point where energy was running away with it all. all of sudden i'm not sure why it stumbled. i had some energy stocks that were up 20%. now they're up 2%. those, are those longer term kind of ideas for you, energy, health care, not just for the next move higher but for a longer term buy and hold? >> yeah, certainly is. i think especially with energy. if you look at the supply and demand dynamics for the first time in the cycle we're really close to being in balance, opec plus keeping their quotas on, u.s. continues to produce more than anybody, global demand will come back gradually. that is the story for second half of the year global demand comes back, china off its lows. there is no challenge in multiple for energy, fully integrated e&p names, most of them throw off nice dividend. i think it is a very healthy long-term play. charles: i agree 1000 percent.

honestly this looks like the most undervalued sector with the best risk/reward out there, then you get a dividend on top. art, thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: hey, folks, wall street economists and financial mediath reluctant, very reluctant for a long time to admit anything wrong with the american consumer yet peel back the aggregate number. there is mountain of evidence there is issues out there. i want to bring in evans may wealth management partner, elizabeth evans. elizabeth this is a different tell right? there are two consumer groups out there we know. i think 60% are tapped out on their credit cards. the rest have cash and they are spending that money. so what are your thoughts on this sort of bifurcation what it means for the economy? >> i think it is the story of the high-end consumer lower vest the low-end consumer. we have heard that dichotomy

from the biggest and best ceos around the world. you heard from mcdonald's, 3m, coca-cola all noting a crack in the consumer with mcdonald's missing eps, noting that the consumer is becoming more discriminating and rolling out this five dollar value meal. you heard from coca-cola saying that the lower end consumer is moving more towards value options. yet at the same time you're hearing from the biggest banks that there is, jpmorgan, saying that spending is reaccelerating so much that they haven't seen that since 2022. american express, 8% year-over-year growth in spending. so, i think the bottom line, charles, is that the higher end consumer they account for more than half of overall spending and they're doing okay. charles: right. right. in the meantime everyone else can get a happy meal with a roll of scotch tape in it, right? where does all this leave the federal reserve? listen, they understand what is

going own. sometimes they borrow the wall street jargon but when you listen to them individually in the speeches they give, it seems to me they know a lot although they're reluctant to sound the alarm out of triggering more panic? >> i think what we saw last week trot various data points that came in that the economy is moderating. so we saw core cpi, core core resales come in a little softer than consensus expectations. you saw the fed come out two or three times saying hey we'll not cut-rates anytime soon and that first rate cut continue toes be pushed back later in the year. we continue to be in a higher for longer environment. the market continues to digest that. charles: right. >> i think you want to own large companies over small companies in that environment. charles: right. by the way i like what you said. i agree, what bostick said this morning i think we'll you al be accustomed or ready for this

higher for longer thing and at t some point no one will talk about it. i want to talk about recent ideas you had for the audience because you had some grand slams. nvidia up 72%. netflix 46%, you still holding all of those? >> we are. those are core components of our client portfolios. charles: schlumberger is one that's down, it is down 11%. i just had this information with art. all the energy stocks exploded higher, they have come back down, are you holding that one? >> we actually sold schlumberger in february. you remember, charles, in february that was right after the saudis came out directed saudi aramco to hold production at 12 million barrels per day. previous guidance was 13 million barrels. so with, if you look at schlumberger, 80% of their revenues are upstream capital expenditures and they have about 30% exposure to the middle east and asia. so as a result of that we sold slb and we actually took those

proceeds and bought taiwan semi. taiwan semi is up 20% whereas slb is up a little less than 2% over that same period of time. charles: right. i got 30 seconds to go, i share with the audience you like american express, microsoft and amazon. these are buy and holds for you right now? >> they are. charles: great work, elizabeth. thank you very much. talk to you again soon. >> thank you, charles. charles: all right, folks, s&p 500 has been on a record pace. we set a number of record finishes this year. rob luna says he sees more upside. in fact significant upside. he is here with the names you need to be a part of to ride that wave. we'll be right back. ♪.

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a slow network is no network for business. that's why more choose comcast business. and now we're introducing ultimate speed for business, our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds at no additional cost. from the company with 99.9% network reliability and advanced cyber security, it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. and it's all from comcast business. charles: so updated gallup survey on u.s. stock ownership says the number moved higher. we're near the all-time record, but here's the thing, only 22% of americans think equities are the best long-term investment, barely edging out gold and significantly below real estate. someone who knows a thing other two about both, rob luna wealth academy founder rob luna.

what do you tell investors? they come to you, i'm sure this is the first thing i have a bunch of money, i want to be rich, which is the best long-term investment, real estate or stock market? >> i think if you look at the numbers, the stock market absolutely is the place to build wealth for more investors but when you think about it, they're not familiar with. i like to see increased ownership across the globe of stocks. quite honestly for most people they will not afford real estate starting out. everyone can put 50, 60 bucks in the stock market. look 10, 15 years later you build wealth. this is one of the best places for the average investor to park their money. charles: now this is in your wheelhouse of course but just how much should individual investors take control, like you know, i know you help, you teach, you train people to be great investors and traders. >> yeah. charles: just how much. i listen, i got a 401(k), almost everyone tells me that is not enough, they want more control over what they're

invested in. >> look no one cares more about your money than you do, charles. i advocate, even if you use a financial professional you should be educated because we all know financial professionals are not created equal. i think you need to read, you need to learn about the stock market, about real estate investing. you can't delegate that to somebody else to take care of your own future. charles: here is the problem when you read about the market. depends what book you read. the modern market. you see trades get crowded quickly and expensive. i don't care how conservative the sector is to stock. everyone loves it. everyone piles in. it goes straight to the moon. every wall street analyst chases it. it does a supernova thing, blows up, moves onto the next thing. it is tough toe hopscotch that area, so, how do folks get around that and still maintain the focus on long-term appreciation? >> yeah. i mean it's a great question, charles. like you said the algorithms really made this game a lot

differently. if they look for a good book. i put one out there, you put one out there, those are two i shamelessly recommend. for most investors you have a 401(k), you have to invest this, that is free money when you get employee match. the s&p 500, if you don't do anything else has been a very, very good place to park your money. i advocate doing more than that look at some names you own but take a longer term view. one of the things investors do to really reduce risk, is lengthen time horizon. that is one thing they have to do. charles: taylor riggs says time in the market, not timing the market. i love the word you use, oprah tiff, you own these companies, as shareholder you are part owner. less than a minute to go, couple ideas you like. tractor supply and lyft. talk to us about those for us. >> tractor supply, demographic change people move into the rural areas especially with the cost of housing will continue. this company just hit, pulled back, now a new 52-week high

today. they continue to understand their customer. that is what we've been talking about, look at walmart and some others who are not executing they open 90 new stores a year. if you play the pet space, they own pet sense. it is a great long-term play, tractor supply. charles: it is in one heck of a well-run company. rob, thanks a lot, my friend. let's talk again soon. >> thanks, charles. thank you. >> folks, silver and copper are en fuego. i think i said that right. someone told us this would happen. that someone happens to be back. tracy shuchart whether you should hop on this or someone else your sleeve. ♪. clem's not a morning person. i'm tasting it- or a night person. or a... people person. but he is an “i can solve this in 4 different ways” person.

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♪. charles: so gold dominated the headlines but don't look now, silver has made a monster move with very little fanfare. well my next guest gave the audience, a few weeks ago on this show, take a look. >> i really like the silver market right now. i also like miners right now. miners are just starting to break out in the silver market. once we start seeing silver prices over $30, pure silver play miners will do extremely well. charles: joining me now hilltower resource advisor ceo, chief market strategist tracy

shuchart. tracy, you were rocking and rolling. i think it was the electricity in the room but silver has made one heck of a move. what's driving it? is the driver what you thought it was or was sitting else? >> yeah it is. you know i think it is the fundamentals obviously. what is going on, 45% of the silver market is used for industrial purposes. so it is not just pure precious metals play. it boils down to you know we have a world deficit, the world silver institute is saying that we're going to have 265.3 million-ton deficit this year. that is almost twice what it was last year. there is only expected to grow. so i think, that, you know, we've also seen silver prices lower than, haven't, didn't break out as quickly as gold. so if you look at gold silver ratio i think speculators looked at that, said, wow, silver looks like a really good buy here. they're just starting to hop on the market at this point.

charles: i was going to say, the silver gold ratio has been out of whack for so long. you can almost argue at anytime, but when it starts to move to your point, people say, hey, the train's leaving the station. so, how far do you see it going from here? >> so, you know, i don't think, you know, i'm not saying this right in a straight line of course not. we're a little bit oversold right now but you know, i think we could see 50, $60 realistically over the next couple years. charles: right. sew a little bit overbought right now? >> so, higher than it is -- charles: oversold. >> we're little overbought right now. charles: all right. no problem. you got 50 bucks -- >> we'll see a pullback. charles: problem, ultimately 50 bucks is the longer term target, that's what we want folks out there to know, 50 bucks. i have to switch to copper. that is also making a huge move. here is the thing with copper.

there are two camps out there. one believes traditionally dr. copper moves with the global economy, some sort of a harbinger of things to come that the global economy is getting better or what we have on the screen. the need, surge electricity needs a.i. is almost 1000 times more powerful, the surge in a.i. versus a google search. we know there will be a electricity crisis. which one is driving copper more and how sustainable is the move? >> well you know, again, that we're a little bit -- here as well. copper, estimated one megawatt of data center power could necessitate anywhere between 20 and 40 tons of copper. that's a lot of copper for one megawatt. you know, we just had april, in april, nvidia announced they will pivot to copper cables from optical-fiber for data transmissions on short distances, so that added a lot of demand for the copper market.

and not to mention all the copper for the green revolution. so we, copper is still facing a supply crunch as well. charles: let me ask you, there's another part too that i'm reading about, the supply dynamics are pretty strained here on copper. as long as that is in place a short push, give like a push to the upside, right? >> yeah, right. you know, we've had some copper issues. last year we were, where the mine in panama got shut down. we had problems, a lot of problems in chile because those are older mines and taken much longer for copper mining in general, the length of time to get it out of the ground is taking longer than it has in the past. charles: all right. let me ask you about what's going on with crude oil. so the president of iran, he dies in a helicopter crash. the price of oil, it's up a little bit today, but, it just,

i don't know, we had this huge oil rally, it got to the mid 80s, then it completely fizzled. what is going on there? >> we saw a lot of, people took length out of the market if you look at the cot reports, a lot of people took their money and ran so to speak. it was a great run. it happened very quickly. it is not very surprising to see that much speculative interest in the market kind of come out after a move like that. now the fact that you know, we're still, you know, around 78, $80, with that much length out of the contract, leads me to think that we still could see higher prices. charles: okay. hey, tracy, congratulations. that was a great call, we appreciate it and talk to you again soon. >> thanks, charles, have a good day. charles: all right. so an article in "the wall street journal" yesterday says that the fed and two other regulatory, other federal regulatory agencies are

moving toward what, would be a significant lessening of nearly 20% mandate for big banks on capital, right? in part because of pressure from jamie dimon and other big bank ceos. i want to bring in ubs's u.s. large cap bank analyst erika najarian. erica, we heard jay powell say at these fomc gatherings, or at least hint the cap rules are unfavorable. we kind of felt maybe something like this was going to happen anyway. what are the big banks looking for, what are they arguing for? what is an acceptable level for them? >> the acceptable level for the big banks what's going to be excessive bull in terms of access to credit for consumers and businesses in the united states. so, you know, just to boil it down in very simple terms, what the regulators did back in july of 2023 is take finalized international standards and as a response to the regional bank

crisis that had nothing to do with capital and everything to do with liquidity, essentially said, let's take this international standards to make them so much harder, right? i think at the end of the day you know, when you're essentially saying to banks, you have to hold more capital, if you want to lend to consumers, you have to hold more capital if you have to lend to businesses and that could have very adverse outcomes in terms of access to credit. a lot of the banks have also said, if basal three's endgame had not been revised you heard from that with jpmorgan investment today, the burden will also be on the enuser which are consumers and businesses because the banks will charge more fees and potentially approve less customers or, you know, you know, charge a higher interest rate in order to make up for that regulation. so i really think that the ideal outcome for the banks is an ideal outcome for u.s. consumers which is remaining access to

credit. charles: yeah. i mean we want banks to lend money [laughter]. yeah, i understand the idea you're cooking and these exotic things come up from time to time but we want banks to lend money. also big news last week -- >> exactly. charles: cfpb, massive u.s. supreme court victory. it looks like it is a go. this is one of these agencies that has got potentially a huge appetite. we know what they're going for initially, some of the low-hanging fruit stuff but could this eventually pose an issue or a problem for big banks? >> you know, look, i think at the end of the day a lot of the large banks would not fall under predatory lending, right? everybody to your point earlier, charles, got rid of anything too exotic after the global financial crisis. that was the big cleanup period for the biggest u.s. banks. but at end of the day if regulatory agencies including

not exclusive to the cfpb continue to essentially just to, you know, hammer down on ways that banks can make money then unfortunately that tends again, i want to stress, hurt the end user which is the consumer. so for example, you know, if you cap late fees, you know that's fine, that seems optically great for the consumer, 8-dollars and incident, but then to your earlier point, we talked about this many shows ago, that could be disdisincentive for the consumer too pay on time. additionally they will get hammered with a high interest rate. who will win, certainly not the consumer. charles: i tried to channel this to elizabeth warren more than once but it hasn't worked. i got less than 30 seconds to go, 30 seconds to go. we've seen a little bit of a bifurcation. these big banks have taken off, they look pretty good. regional banks still indecisive, your thoughts there? >> i think, i will tell you

something i think regional banks are starting to look interesting here. it seems like if we do have a soft landing and again, like you know, net interest margins may not be you know, terrific until the fed starts cutting rates. you had the u.n. b financial, heartland deal announces. you know, quote election futures market, you know, pricing in potentially republican victory, i think not having exposure to regionals, especially the high-quality regionals might be tough if you think about what is setting up in terms of positive catalysts. charles: right. well when you say it i listen. so i'm going to watch it a little closer. maybe stick a toe in the water. we'll see. great to see you. thank you so much. >> thank you. charles: all right, folks, although 2024 has seen the "magnificent seven gather all around the s&p is still posting new record highs. so what gives? do we still need them to sort of be the drum major of parade?

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♪. ♪ go your own way ♪ charles: you can go your own way. well the mag-7 certainly has done that right? they have been scattered all over the place. what a difference a year makes. take a look at this, last year's ranking versus this year. ever these stocks were in the top 10, they were all over the

place. of course they're pretty scattered right now. tesla, fridges the number 10 stock in 2023 is now the 495 stock of the s&p 500. apple was 63, now it is 369. they have gone their own way. i want to bring in entrepreneur shares coo eva ados. i just got to ask, how surprised to you, the overall market has been able to hold up this well despite some of these major names trailing big time? >> not that surprised. it is a stock-pickers market and i think investors reward companies that are able to grow their margins and have extraordinary revenue growth and profit growth. we just don't see this with apple, microsoft or tesla. they are great companies. but their best years are behind them. we have not owned these companies last year. we still beaded the russell 1000 growth by more than 10%. you can have great returns without owning all of

the "magnificent seven. charles: no, i agree with that but their weighting is so powerful in these indices, particularly the s&p, i know you can beat it inside of a individual portfolio but i'm kind of impressed to be quite honest with you. by the way speaking of impressed i usually wait to the end of the segment because i have to bring up your track record because you knocked the ball off the cover. last quarter someone was on with us. you had arista up 77%, google up 67%, entr which is yours, up 45% smci, the sort of, i guess yours the to be nvidia for poor folks but not anymore. that's down. that is the only one you had that was down. are you still long that right now? >> yes, definitely. we still love it. it's a great company. it is still up 226% year-to-date, so it's been down in, last couple of weeks but it is still a great company. they have been a long-term partner to nvidia. they grow together.

they provide extraordinary servers so it is a great a.i. play but they're actually good priced now for someone who might want to get some exposure. charles: we always have to add a caveat with that one. ultrahigh beta, makes big moves. nvidia is reporting wednesday, a proxy now apparently for the entire economy, what are you expecting? >> betting against. nvidia is like betting against a.i. you know how i feel about nvidia, we owned it since 2010 when it was a five dollar stock. it is one of our biggest weights. we still believe in it. this is company, $2.3 trillion company growing like a startup. they have 126% revenue growth when the rest of the category is negative 5%. that shows this is one of the leaders able to get market share from their competitors and we've never really seen that before with any other company. >> right. >> yeah. it's a great company. i'm optimistic. charles: bottom line is that

they really don't have any true authentic competitors right now in, the hottest global market in the world. let's talk about a couple of new ideas from you, right? one is c limited, se. full disclosure my subscribers also own this one? >> yeah, so, because the, as you said the indices have grown appreciably in the last few months, and they have now reached the all-time high, i'm starting to look at opportunities in other geographies. so c limited a singapore story but it is really a global story -- sea limited. not only has the most revenues in asia but their biggest revenue growth is in latin america. this is a company down 80% from their covid highs but they have increased revenues by seven times in the last five years and they have cut their workforce by 10% seven months ago, which allowed them to turn the corner and now they're profitable. it is a great story. i want to mention, many people won't realize, it is not just

digital entertainment play or an e-commerce. in fact what is now happening they're turning the eyes they got through the e-commerce plat form and digital entertainment to their fintech solution, sea money, which has gone from losing 600 million to making 500 million. so that's what makes us so optimistic if that segment grows, that can be a great thing for the company. charles: right. i know you also like toast which is interesting because in my book, "unbreakable investor," i have an entire chapter how people can find new ideas. i have the case study on toast. it is up a lot -- tost. love having these conversations with you eva, thank you very much. >> thank you. charles: now for an update folks on a special cause, boys and girls club of harlem. i think they're doing amazing work. i'm on the board, changing lives for all these young folks up in

harlem. on friday we used you he joined boys and girls club at 16. he is not only in college but interning on wall street. because of your generosity, we were able to raise $1800 again for q and others to use for stipened in summer internship program we're sponsoring. there is still time to donate. text, bgchgive, to 44-321. go do bgc harlem. org. i thank you very much. there are new market leaders in town. what does it mean? gary gary kaltbaum likes to catch them when they turn a corner. he is next. ♪

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leadership change throughout the market and it's been noticeable and the question is is it sustainable and bring in kaltbaum business manager gary kaltbaum. they outperformed all the categories we've talked zack looking like small caps want to take off. is this the move now? has the small cap rally begun? >> it's getting there but, charles, if i buy it, it'll stop. be very careful. let me just say this, while the large caps are working, that's where you get your liquidity and have real meaty companies in there. they're getting better and think there's room. they've got to get going for the russell to get going big time.

charles: 40 names in the russell are unprofitable and maturity wall and be selective and then utilities and challenging technology for the top spot for the entire year and. >> what really has my big interest and sail say this loud, any pullbacks constructively gold, silver, copper, uranium, it looks like there's a real commodity move a foot here, and i don't think this is one of those short lived moves so any pullback, they're ahead of themselves and the institutions are getting in and buying the underlying stocks, which tells

me this is for real and suggest all the viewers to pay close attention there. i'm not a commodities guy, but i'm pretty good at noticing when things are showing themselves in a big way. charles: we had tracy on earlier in the show. she's one of my favorites on commodities and started loading up on silver not long ago. you've got to be poised depending on the wind blowing. >> we bought qualcomm and crowd strike and nvidia and had to knock it out before earnings because we bought originally at five and sold in the mid eights and we just don't want to tempt fate there. bottom line is if the good reaction, more moves and great

looking move for the semiconductors and a move out and equipment makers like lamb research and applied materials and they're waking up here and starting to bust if semis are doing well, it's tough to take the market down. charles: i have a theory and less than a minute to go but bos tick was out and saying i like the 1990s where rates were really high and took an entire decade to drift a little lower. i believe at some point the market goes okay for hire and going through a hissy fit and that's reality and notion that the market can't rally with rates where they are right now, seems like that's going to be a nonissue soon. >> yeah and i'm not so sure rates are not so high and

normized from the jay powell unimaginable money printing and the big inflation. technological advancements and the market hits a wall and overvalued or overhyped and i'm surprised for the last three weeks and shows you how important the 10-yield s. charles: really does .x we'll get used to being here and nonissue soon. great stuff, gary. thinking about you wednesday when the numbers come out. >> take care, buddy.

charles: he thought that merchants needed to help their family and help the poor. taking loans that people need the money such as poor people that have to take care of and she happens their families. this means taking advantage of the needy or hyping up the interest rate more than you need in order to be a efficient lender. it's worth considering that through his ethical lens, aquinas finding through the mortgage lending and talking non-morn lending and interest rates going up so much and finding that troubling. when do we shift the blame to the borrower without fully understanding their

circumstances. this is not 1224, it's 2024 and people are buying stuff they don't need and cannot afford. i know, you're going to the store, particularly around the holosomedays and have someone dressed as santa and get caught up in the moment and want to buy everyone a gift. get the bait and switch and find the fees are 35%. the articles is no one responsible for making smart economic decisions. it's a real shame and we continue to pass the buck and continues to get really tough and the notion of responsibility falls on deaf ears. that's it for me, passing to ashley webster in for liz claman.

ashl: