>> chris: i'm chris wallace. today our exclusive interview with mitt and ann romney. speaking out for the first time since the campaign. we asked them to describe the drama of election day. >> when did you know you had lost the presidency? >> we find out how they are adjusting to a loss they say was a surprise. >> mrs. romney, as we sit here right now, have you gotten over the defeat or is that going to take more time? >> and we talk with the governor about the mess in washington. and what he would do differently. >> how do you think the president has handled the sequester, the $85 billion in automatic spending cuts. mit and ann romney. a "fox news sunday" exclusive. then, the sequester kicks in. now, what happens? the we will ask our sunday panel has the white house hyped the impact of the cuts or are we on a slow motion slide to real pain? all right now on "fox news

sunday." >> chris: hello again from fox news in washington. they were in the spot light for years speaking to big crowds and tracked by reporters. but since their defeat four month ago mitt and ann romney have gone silent that is until now. this week we flew to san diego to sit down with the romneys for their first interview since the campaign. we talked about why they lost. what they make of the mess here in washington. and how they are dealing with a life they didn't expect to be leading now. take me back to election day. november 6. is it true that you both thought going in you were going to win? >> i for sure did. i think mitt intellectually was thinking that it was possible we could and he knew how close it was. but my heart and my whole soul was we are going to win. i was there. >> i think we were convinced

that we would win. we saw that the polls were very close. but we knew that the energy and passion was with our voters and my heart said we were going to win. >> the crucial swing state of virginia the commonwealth where the race is excruciatingly close. >> chris: as the returns started coming in and they were not what you expected, what were your thoughts? >> the exit polls came out first and suggested it was going to be very close in florida and we thought we would win solidly in florida. it was increasingly clear this was going to be with the best case scenario a long night. >> chris: when did you know you had lost the presidency? >> it was a slow recognition until the ohio numbers began coming in and they were disappointing. i said look, this looks like we lost. wasn't certain. some people said look if this number comes in you could win. by 8:00 or 9:00 it was clear that we were not going to win and. >> and that was what moment like? >> well, it is hard. it is emotional.

i mean there was such passion in the people who were helping us. i just felt, you know, we really let them down. >> it was that crushing disappointment. not for us. our lives are going to be fine. it is for the country. >> chris: is it true you began to cry? >> i did, of course. yeah. very disappointed. >> chris: cry for what? >> cry not again it is not sorrow for oh, my gosh, you know, our life, you know, this dream, the dream was to make a difference. the dream was to serve. >> chris: and you called the president and he came down stairs and you delivered your formal concession. >> i so wish that i had been able to fulfill your ar hopes o lead the country in a different direction but the nation chose another leader so ann and i join with you to ernestly pray for him and for this nation. >> it was all that people that helped that came to my mind as i got up to speak and look

around the room and saw the people that were there. and i believe i could have made a difference for the people of this country and you think gosh, i just haven't been able to get the job done. and it was very hard. >> chris: in a flash, it was all gone. secret service. the crowds. the intensity. the minute-by-minute schedule and suddenly nothing. how tough is that? >> it is an adjustment. you know, it is interesting in your church we are used to serving and you can be in a very high position but you recognize you are serving and then all of a sudden you are released and you are nobody and we are used to that. it is like we came and stepped forward to serve but the good news is fortunately we like each other and we like being with each other. >> that is our life. i mean our life is the life we have with each other and with five sonsion five daughters in law and 20 grand children. that is our life. that is who we are. >> chris: but is it tough when suddenly the secret service? >> it is different but it is

like riding on a rollercoaster. exciting and thrilling ups and downs but then the ride ends and we get off. can't we be on a rollercoaster the rest of our lives? it is like no, the ride is over. >> chris: let me ask you about the months from november until now. were there tears? >> oh, for me, yeah. i cried. when you pour that much of your life and energy and passion into something and you are disappointed by the outcome it is very -- it is sad. it is very hard. >> chris: governor, second is greg? anger? depression? >> no, you look back at campaign and say what did the president do well and you acknowledge that h his campaign did a number of things very effectively. of course, you rehearse all of the mistakes that you you made. and i went through a number of my mistakes i'm sure and then you think about the things that were out of our control. but you move on. i mean i don't spend my life looking back. it is like okay, what are we going to do next. >> chris: governor, we began to

see random pictures of you pumping your own gas with your hair messed up. hugging ann in the kitchen. hanging out with the kids at disneyland. do you have a plan or were you just trying to get through the day. >> we were just living our life. and obviously people would see us in various places either walking ail long the beach or in this case getting gas for the car. and they take out their cell phones and take a picture. none of those were done by professional photographers or i might have combed my hair if i haded seen them coming. no, we are just living our life. >> chris: as we sit here right now have you you gotten over the defeat or is that going to take more time? >> i think it takes time. mostly the great principle is sessions bride line, mostly did. i'm mostly over it. but not completely. you have moments where you go back and feel the sorrow of the loss and so yeah, i think we are not mostly dead yet.

>> chris: a week after the election, governor, are you had a conference call with top donors in which you said that you blamed your defeat on the president giving away things. >> it is a proven political strategy which is give a bunch of money from the government to a group and guess what they'll vote for you. >> to some people it sounded like the remark you made in your campaign about 47% of americans looking for handouts. >> the president had the power of incumbency. obama care was very attractive particularly to those without health insurance and they came out in large numbers to vote. that was part of the successful campaign. >> chris: fairly or not you know a lot of republican leaders roasted you for those remarks. iowa governor, my feeling is we need to turn the page. gop strategist ed rogers he you can exit the stage any time and no one will mourn. did that hurt? did you feel in a sense you were being pushed out of the party? >> i'm not going to second

guess what other people have to say. i don't look back. i look forward. >> you never like it and i never like it and i -- i'm like a she lion when it comes to defending mitt. i know his heart and his abilities. i know he would have been a fabulous president and i mourn the fact that he is not there. and it would have been much better for america i believe in my heart if he had been there right now. >> chris: we are are going to talk to your husband separately. you will have to just sit here for a minute but i want to ask mrs. romney a few questions. >> that is going to be hard. >> chris: all right. well -- [ laughter ] >> i will say nothing. >> chris: why do you think he lost? >> i think they had a better ground game. and i think we were not aware. you know, we certainly had the passion coming from our side and i don't think we were as aware of the passion that was coming from the other side. i think we were a little blind sided by that. >> chris: do you think that the two of you at all contributed

to this image which the other side certainly played up that you you were so wealthy that you were somehow out of touch with the concerns of the average american? >> that is a reality that you can't change. i mean we are are who we are. the thing that was frustrating to me is that people didn't really get to know mitt for who he was. >> chris: i want to pick up on that because there were reports that you and your oldest sontag tag were frustrated with the romney campaign that they didn't "let mitt be mitt" and didn't let him show his more open compassionate side. true? >> true. but it was not just the campaign's fault. i believe it was the media's fault as well is that he was not being give and fair shake that people weren't allowed to really see him for who he was. >> chris: what about the media? >> i'm happy to blame the media. >> chris: do you think the media was in the tank for barack obama? >> i think that it is any time

you are are running for are office you always think that you are being portrayed unfairly and, you know, we, of course, on our side believe that there is more bias in favor of the other side. i think that, you know, that is a pretty universally felt opinion. >> chris: what do you think of the campaign that barack obama ran? >> i think obviously it was a winning campaign. it worked. >> chris: do you think it was fair? >> no. >> chris: in what pay? >> portrayial of my husband. he is an exceptional wonderful person. >> doug: she is not. >> she is not biased at all. >> gretchen: i'm not. >> i'm not biased. and he is a self-less person that really truly cared about the american people. he truly cares about making a difference and helping others. and for him to be portrayed in a very negative light in another way was very hard. he has enormous skillsets in dealing with difficult issues

and i totally believe at this moment if mitt were there in the office that we would not be facing sequestration right now. >> chris: what is your life like now? what are you you doing? how do you spend your days? governor, now you can talk. >> my turn again. >> chris: yes. >> we renamed our foundation the romney foundation for children. we are going to help the very poorest kids in the world. we will help kids in this country with disease and great difficulty and that is taking more are and more of our time. we got a chance to spend more time with the grandkids. we just had twins born as you know and being with them was a thrill. >> chris: i have to clear up a couple of rumors. were you approached by dancing with the stars? >> i was. >> chris: and did you consider are it. >> did i. i love the show. >> chris: and why aren't you going to be out there? >> well, you know. >> the pass is a doble. >> they are impressed you know what that is.

>> i would love to have done it. imi am turning 64. i started thinking about it and i'm like i'm not really as flexible as i should be. and now i understand dorothy hamill has been picked and i thought oh, my gosh am i glad i didn't do that. i wouldn't want to compete against dorothy. >> chris: did the republican party approach you about running for john kerry's senate seat? >> no. >> chris: that is not true? >> they didn't approach me. i think there was a thought that oh, wouldn't that be fun for ann to do that andike did any one want to consider how fun it would be for me to do that? >> chris: not a chance? >> not the a chance. i'm enjoying life. >> chris: tell us about the grandchildren and your involvement with them? >> he woo are with them constantly. it is our life. >> i mean virtually every day. we see one grand child or another every day. we took them to disneyland. we took them snow skiing and then our sons matt and craig live close to an open o space

area and we throw the ball for the dogs. we play sports with the kids. they like kicking balls, hitting baseballs. we do the things that grandparents are expected to do with grandkids. >> looking back and now how do you both feel about what you have been through and where you are now you? >> i wish everyone could have just been in our pockets and gone with us and seen what we had seen and what you see when you see that are the heart of the american people. i leave, you know, discouraged by the outcome of the election but also optimistic about america. and because of the people that live here. and it is an amazing place. >> chris: governor? >> it was an exciting thrilling experience and it didn't end the way we wanted it to. but the experience itself was magnificent. were there tough days? absolutely. were there exhilarating days? even more of them. and so i kind of one of the

great life experiences. anybody would say can you imagine anything more fantastic than being able to run for are president of the united states? >> chris: that throw the football is one thing more -- >> yeah, winning. but the -- but two years and we have done it twice. two years seeing the american people, it is a great thrill of a lifetime that we will obviously cherish throughout our lifetime. >> chris: when we come back we will ask mitt romney about his frustration as he sees washington trapped in the gridlock and he talks more openly than he ever has about why he thinks he lost the presidency. ♪ vo:wiplus wireless speaker,rhead bold is the proud sponsor of singing in the shower.

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>> chris: after your interview with both romneys we sat down alone with the governor and talked about the campaign and how president obama has dealt with the nation's problems since his reelection. but we he started with why anysomeone should listen to mitt romney. before we get to current events what role do you see for yourself? what part do you want to play in the republican party? what role do you want to have in the national debate? >> well, i recognize that i lost. so i'm not going to be the leader of the republican party. other people will take that mantle but i want to have influence on getting our party to a position where we can be successful in solving the problems the country has. >> chris: you must know there are a lot of people in the party who still blame you for losing the race that they think the republicans could have won in 2012 to a certain degree when you you hear about the rebranding aren't people saying they want to distance the party from you? >> well, i recognize that as

the guy who lost the election i'm not in a position to tell everybody else how to win, all right. they are not going to listen and i don't have the credibility to do that anyway but i still care and i still believe that there are principles that we need to stand for. i look at what is happening right now and i wish i were there. it kills me not to be there. not to be in the white house doing what needs to be done. the president is the leader of the nation. the president brings people together. does the deals. does the trades. knocks the heads together. the president leads and i don't see that kind of leadership happening right now. >> chris: what is this president doing? >> he is campaigning. he is the only one that can say to his own party look you guys i need you on this and get some republicans aside and say pull them off one by one. we don't have to have these gridlock settings one after another on issue after issue and it will take real leadership and people in both partiesing there puwilling to e

political victories and start fighting for national victories. >> chris: how do you think the president has handled the sequester, the $85 billion in spend ising cuts. >> no one can think that has been a success for the president. he didn't think the sequester would happen. it is happening. to date what we have seen is the president out campaigning to the american people doing rallies around the country, flying around the country and berating republicans and blaming and pointing. that causes the republicans to retrench and put up a wall and fight back. a very natural human emotion. when i was elected governor of my state i had a legislature 87% democrat. it was not lost on me that to get anything done i couldn't be attacking them. i had to find ways to reach out to them. the president has the opportunity to lead the nation and to bring republicans and democrats together. it is a job he has got to do and a job only the president can do. >> chris: during the last presidential debate you brought up the effect of that the

sequester would have on the military and the president said. >> the sequester is not something that i propose. it is something that congress has proposed. it will not happen. >> your thoughts now. >> wrong on two fronts. there should be a deal done here and it should be not just solving the short-term sequester issue but dealing with the long-term fiscal challenge that america has. this is an opportunity. see i look at this sequester and also the expiration of the bush tack cuts as an almost once in generational opportunity for america to solve its fiscal problems. if we do that we could become more competitive globally and america can lead the world for the coming century. i see this as this huge opportunity and it is being squandered by politics. by people who are more interested in a political victory than they are in doing what is right for the country and it is very frustrating. the hardest thing about losing is watching this critical moment, this golden moment just

slip away with politics. >> chris: the obama administration is right now releasing hundreds of illegal immigrants who have been slated for deportation because they say they can't afford to hold them. what do you think of that? >> i think the president has to act in the interest of the country. and that means if we need an aircraft carrier in the gulf sd make sure that we are able to keep them in jail. and using the sequester as an excuse is in my opinion the wrong way to go. look, it is again it is politics. it is okay, how do we do something that will get a headline that will make it look like the terrible republicans aren't willing to coming to the. i understand from paul ryan, i is spoke with him just a day tore two ago he put forward a proposal to give the president flexible in moving money between accounts so we will

bring the spending down but you will get, mr. president, the chance to make sure that we don't have long lines at airport. or we don't -- >> chris: the president says ed oasessent want that flexibility. >> and why would you not want to have the flexible to do what you think is right for the country? the only answer that comes back is they may be more interested in showing pain and saying see what the other guys did. look, this is the country and it is -- this is america we are talking about at a critical time. and you you know, nero is fiddling. come on, guys, focus on getting america through a difficult time and on the track to remain the most powerful and strong nation in the history of the earth and put people back to work. >> chris: the one issue in washington where the president and republicans seem to be coming together is immigration reform and one big reason everybody agrees because the president hammered you among hispanic voters.

did you make a political mistake in the campaign when you talked about self-deportation and what do you think about the idea that the the gang of 8 in the senate is coming up with that would allow the 11 million illegals a provisional status, basically a legal status in this country even before any increase in enforcement? >> people who have come here illegally should not be given a special pathway merely because they have come here illegally. i have that position but i understand others have different positions. others in my party do. and to finally resolve this issue is going to require people of differing views to come together and see if there could be some compromise or some common ground. i hope that happens. i believe that will happen. >> chris: this bring ares me to the campaign and i want to is ask you about several issues and what role you think they played in your tee feet. >> it would be nice if governor

romney with exercise leadership on h his former staff and former donors to take misleading ads off the air. >> did the long bitter primary fight force you to move further to the right and hurt you in the general election. >> the idea that somehow the primary made me become more conservative than i was wasn't accurate. a long and bolstering primary where the remarks are sometimes not on the mark but creating an unfavorable impression, those things are not helpful. and some of the debates you get asked questions that are kind of silly that end up hurting you in the general. remember the famous question if you get $10 of cost savings when only one dollar of tax increase would you go along with that. >> raise your hand if you feel so strongly about not raising taxes you would walk away on the ten to one deal. that is a good question. why not be the one who stands up there and raises your hand and says of course, if it was

ten for one i would do it. >> because if you said that you are not going to raise taxes they would say romney changed his position and said he wouldn't raise taxes and now saying he will. he changed his position. >> chris: but you would have accepted $10 in spending cuts for one dollar in revenue. >> that is a fairy tale. if you are going into a negotiation you have to stand for your position. know they are going to stand for theirs and they are recognize there will be some compromise. >> chris: the 47% video. >> the the 47% who are dependent who believe that they are victims who believe that the government has the responsibility to care for them. >> chris: george will said you got a problem when voters don't like you. you got a real problem when voters think you don't like them. >> it was a very unfortunate statement that i made. it is not what i meant. i didn't express myself as i wished i would have. you know, when you speak in private you don't is spend as much time thinking about how

something could be twisted and distorted and could come out wrong and be used but i did and it was very harmful. what i said is not what i believe. obviously my whole campaign my whole life has been devoted to helping people. all the people. i care about all of the people of the country but you that hurt, there is no question that hurt and did real damage to campaign. >> chris: just been the election, hurricane sandy and chris christie's embrace literally and figuratively of president obama, how much did that hurt? >> i don't think that is why the president won the election. my campaign had to kind of stop. we were in the last week and this was a time we were getting ready to hammer and hammer and hammer our message and we had to stop. as for chris christie he did what he thought was the best for the people of his state. >> chris: honestly as we sit here right now do you wish he had been a little less efusive in his is support of obama which made him seem more

presidential? >> i'm not going to worry how chris was doing what he thought was best for the the people of the state. i lost my election because of my campaign not because of what any one else did. >> chris: looking back, how do you rate yourself as a presidential candidate? >> well, i see my mistakes and bettery flaws and i did this time than i did the time before and i won't get a third chance. i'm not doing it again. the weakness that the campaign had and that i had a we weren't effective in taking my message primarily to minority voters. that was a real weakness. we did very well with the majority population but not with minority populations and that was a failing and a real mistake. >> chris: why do you think that was? >> i think the obama care attractiveness and feature was something we underestimated in particularly among lower incomes. and we just didn't do as good a job at connecting with that audience as we should have. >> chris: what does the

republican party need to do to reach out and attract more voters? >> well, first of all, i lost and so i'm not the going to be telling the republican party come listen to me, the guy who lost is going to tell you how to win. >> chris: you must have some ideas. >> of course. but among those ideas clearly we have to do a better job bringing minority voters in to vote for republicans and that is hispanic americans, african americans, other minorities. we have to do a better job taking our mess damage them to help them underand it -- message to them to help them understand why we are the party that will make their lives better. >> chris: finally this interview in a sense is your return to the the national stage. after everything you have been through, why do you want to get back in the game? >> well, i'm not going to disappear. i'm not running for office. i don't have a big organization that is out speaking in my rebee half but i care about america. i care about the people that can't find jobs. i care about the fact that we

are racking up larger deficits and putting the peril of the future generation very much in play. i really care about this country. i care about my 20 grandkids. the kind of america they are are going to have and sit ising on the sidelines when so much is at stake is just not in my nature. >> chris: governor, thank you. >> thanks, chris. good to be with you. >> chris: later in the show, the romneys introduce us to the latest editions to their family. i promise you won't want to miss it. first we will bring in our sunday group to discuss what happens now that those automatic spending cuts have kicked in. and to give us their reaction to mitt romney's return to public life. [ kate ]sorbing the calcium they take as well as they could because they don't take it with food. switch to citracal maximum plus d. it's the only calcium supplement that can be taken with or without food. my doctor recommends citracal maximum. it's all about absorption.

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victory than they are in doing what is right for the country and it is very frustrating. i have to tell you the hardest thing about losing is watching it critical moment, this golden moment just slip away with politics. >> chris: mitt romney talking about what he sees as the real chance for a grand bargain on our fiscal problems and his frustration he is not in power to make the deal. time for the sunday group. bill kristol of the weekly standard. kyrsten sinema from thkirsten x news contributor scott brown. excuse me. you threw that he was actually he coughing. and charles lane of the washington post. i think it is fair to say you were not a big fan of romney during the campaign. what do you make of his return to the public stage and he is going to be speaking in a little over a week. a week after next to cpac the conservative political action conference. how much attention do you expect republicans to pay to

him? >> let's see what he says in the speech and whether he tries to lay out a forward looking agenda for the party. as i was watching the interview with him i was remind of his decency and i'm proud to have vote the for him and i think he would have been a better president than barack obama is going to be. i remember back to a flashback of an independent vie intervied school with gerald ford. i thought he would have been much better than jimmy carter. i remember watching the interview in grad school and thinking that is not the few auteur of the republican party and i kind of -- i must say with all due respect to governor romney i sort of had that feeling watching him today, too. >> chris: the governor says we just heard the clip that president obama had a golden moment to make a deal and i think cece going back to the fiscal cliff when all of the taxes were in play and then, of course, with the sequester. golden moment to make a deal and solve our problems on

spending and taxes and entitlements and he says he wasted it on politics and scoring points against the republicans. one, does he have a point? and two, with the confluence of him talking now just as washington has never looked worse do you think some voters may be looking at this interview today and saying maybe he might have handled it better? >> definitely his cree teak i think of what is going on in washington was on point and i think he and his wife are obviously incredibly classy people and they came off very well in this interview. always easier from the outside of washington to sort of fingers and say i would handle it differently. he left out of the critique the republicans. the president i think he is right could stand to be more of a leader in the situation but the republicans also could stand to make some sort of deal with the president on revenues when they already said in the past they were perfectly fine with closing the loopholes and now suddenly they can't close the loopholes. i think both parties are to

blame. when speaking at cpac he needs to address both sides not just the president. >> chris: senator brown? >> sequestration. i was told to us that listen we will make this draconian deal that no one wants to see forward and we will get a select committee and do our jobs and we will take care of it and they didn't. revenues were never part of it. it was strictly finding the appropriate cuts and the problem is there is plenty of blame to go around. >> chris: in terms of romney's critique? >> spot on. they should not have been here during the vacation up at camp david in a room working things out. when the select committee failed there should have been another one and another one and another one. that is the problem they don't talk up there. there is a complete lack of attention to detail. country firstuntr condition ft versus the party and political interests first. >> chris: i think the white house would say look we tried

to do backroom deals. we couldn't make the deal with boehner. if we could make the deal with boehner he couldn't deliver. >> i have to disagree. i was there. i voted for. we already did the $1.2 trillion. the president has been out campaigning hammering. he did ask them to come to his h office until the day the sequestration was going to come into effect. that is not coming together and putting the country first. that is putting politics first and that is what we need to step back from. >> chris: one of the things i was struck by in the interview is that romney continues to talk about the president giving things to people like obama care. and saying that i won among white voters but didn't do so well with minority voters. is isn't that what got him into trouble in the first place? >> yes, but on the other hand there is some truth to it. if he perform as well as his

father george romney did among minority voters he would probably be president of the united states right now. like others on the panel i was struck by the fact that after a campaign is oh over when people have been brutalizing each other and have absorbed negative shocks and so forth and so on candidates always look better when you get to sit down and more relaxed environment and you do see that mitt romney is a person with a lot of ability and a lot of energy who still has a lot to contribute and his hometown of detroit right now has just been put into state receivership or is about to be. i wonder if there isn't a role for him in the restructuring of detroit? he would be the perfect person to do it. he has the expertise. a hopetown guy and kind of a political free agent at this point. that is the kind of thing that he could i think contribute in the future because i kind of agree with bill, his career is kind of a national republican figure is pretty much over. >> chris: bill, i want to pick up on the issue of immigration. i asked him about a repeatedly. a lot of people think it was one of the keys to his lost and

he lost among hispanic voters 71% to 27%. he attributes it overwhelmingly to obama care and the fact that that was so attractive to lower income voters especially according to their polls hispanics. do you think that is right? >> i don't but this is the line the campaign took and they claim their polls and focus groups showed it lower income hispanics were not put off by the self-deportation and attacks on gingrich and perry. even though the national polls showed obama care is unpopular that this helped him with lower income voters. i think it is a bit of an execution to explain away the damage he did to himself with what he said about immigration in the fall and also on obama care. maybe he did lose some votes on obama care for those that didn't have health insurance and thought obama care would provide it. i think one could say governor romney did not prosecute the

case against obama care terribly aggressively and the republican party as a whole didn't prosecute a republican proposal to explain how the republicans will take care of our problems more effectively than the democrats. >> chris: senator brown on a human level i was fascinated to see how the romneys four months in are dealing with their defeat. at least in a public sense at least on camera, governor romney seemed in it a better place than mrs. romney. you have just been through your own defeat running for the senate in november. did that look familiar to you? >> very familiar. i think the candidate we are used to getting kind of the crap kicked out of us to speak frankly and as a result we very a thicker skin. my wife is obviously still angry. better and disappointed and frustrated but life goes on. i agree with mitt and mrs. romney. life goes on. he has a bright future. whether it is as a political

lead i don't know. he does have a lot to offer many businesses. his philanthropic causes are second to none and he has a bright future. >> chris: when we come back the sequester was supposed to be so painful it would never be triggered. what happens now that it has? alec, for this mission i upgraded your smart phone. ♪ right. but the most important feature of all is...

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this is not going to be an apocalypse as some people have said. it is just dumb. it is going to hurt. >> it this discussion about revenue you in my view is over. it is about taking on the spending problem here in

washington. >> chris: well, it is groundhog day here in washington as president obama and speaker boehner dig in their heels again about how you to resolve the conflict over those $85 billion in automatic spending cuts and we are back now you with the panel. the next step in all of this bill is that the house is expected to pass a bill this week that will keep funding the government at these new sequestration levels minus the $58 billion cuts keep funding it through september to avoid the government shutdown which we would get in march and the president has indicated this week if that kind of a bill comes to him he will sign it. question, has the white house cried uncle on sequestration? >> maybe to some degree if you think that again sequestration was their idea. republicans convinced themselves -- >> chris: but they have been fighting it for the last few months. >> one reason he is fighting it is the cuts in defense are just

too deep and it is terrible. >> chris: we will get to defense in a men. >> it could be a tactical win for republicans but then they need to look and say that defense is totally inadequate levels for the rest of this year. >> chris: do you think they are crying uncle, two questions that the white house is crying uncle and sequestration saying i'm willing to sign a bill so we don't have a fight about a government shutdown and secondly part of the bill that the house is talking about putting in is to give more flexibility to the pentagon so the leaders there can say this program shouldn't be cut and this program can be cut even more. the white house says they won't accept that. they don't want flexibility. you heard mitt romney say why on earth would a president not want more flexibility to make the cuts smarter. >> both sides have said this is dumb and yet it is still happening. the best case scenario in a bad

base would be to give the defense department and actually other agencies more latitude in how they do the cuts and so why the president wadnd do that i don't know. >> chris: well, we know with us supposedly they say we want to show how painful they are. we don't want it to be -- >> that is disturbing. i find that very disturbing actually. this is -- the cbo projected we could lose 700,000 jobs and so for them to play the games over politics trying to make the republicans look bad i don't think is acceptable. i'm not saying the republicans don't have -- play a role in this but the white house and i also don't know how this benefits obama in the long run because the cbo also is basically saying it will affect the unemmoiment rate and be a drive on the economy. is obama playing with the economy and playing with people's jobs to make the republicans look bad? this is not how you are supposed to lead. >> chris: senator brown i want you to weigh in on all of this but you have a special perspective because you are a colonel in the army national

guard and spent much of the last five weeks inside the pentagon. off camera does the military think they can live with the cuts or that it will hurt national defense? >> it will obviously hurt. you can't cut half a trillion dollars which we have already done and expect to cut another half a trillion. >> over ten years. >> there is no reason in the world i think you hit it on the head. it is about politics and making the republicans look bad in the public's eye. the president should have the ability to delegate the authority to secretary hagel or any of the dod chiefs to do their jobs. they should also harry reid should also delegate the authority to his various committee chairs to say listen we need to come up with $1.2 trillion over ten years. could your jobs. you are responsible to come up with x. there is nothing like that. no delegation and and no transfer of. >> chris: with the transfer of authority could the pentagon live with the cuts? >> depends on what the mix is.

general dempsey hit it, what is the mission. he hit it right on the head. if you will have us be in three or four conflicts around the world and cut another half a trillion. tell us the mission and give us the transfer authority and we can make it work short term. next year we will be in the same situation and, once again, our men and women serving deserve better and the american people deserve better. the president it is a dumb idea. it is his idea. and we were told that in fact it would never happen. sequestration is never going to happen. well, it happen so what do we do now? we continue to throw bombs at each other or actually get together and solve the problems? go out to camp david and grab pizza and beers and let's figure it. >> chris: chuck, you thoughts about sequestration going forward? >> you asked has the president cried uncle. another question is has he cried wolf? he painted a dire impact.

thanks to our reporting and others he has been forced to step back. >> chris: i loved him saying well, it is not going to be the apocalypse as some people say. he had ray lahood and arnie done canadian and janet napolitano saying it will be an apocalypse. if you you look at the way it has played out i think they have got and little surprised at the fact that there was some pushback in the media and an effective pushback from the republicans about don't overdo how bad this is going to be and number two, you are president maybe you can do something to mitigate it. that just tells me that there is still a lot of surprises left to go in terms of how sequestration plays out. people treat it as sort of this one off event. happens and then we know the results. not so fast. there is six months of process ahead of us. all kinds of little details. all kinds of little things that are going to happen. and furthermore, as sequestration goes forward and

to the extent it dominates the news it will detract from the other things he had in mind like gun control and immigration. so the politics on this are i think turning out to be a lot more blurry than the president may have hoped. >> chris: let's talk about that, bill. in his news conference on friday the president was said you know, look, i don't want this to paralyze us in it washington and we have a lot of other things to talk about, gun control, immigration reform, raising the minimum wage. can he go on two tracts or is this so going to poison and so paralyze washington that it is going to hurt the rest of his agenda? >> he can try. i would be happy republicans came out of this ahead. i would say the evidence now is murky. i he think somebody a little overconfident. last week the violence against women act which was passed by the senate. the house spun off its version. it was defeated on the floor of house. the republican defections and then 80 republicans joined almost all of the democrats to

pass democratic legislation in the house. if you are dobbs all the media can say the washington post being very tough, not enough time for this. he just got one of his pieces of legislation through the house and, once again, divided house republicans. speaker boehner couldn't hold the majority on final passage. the republicans provided enough votes for the democrats to pass democratic legislation. and he is thinking i can do this legislation to legislation. weakening house republicans quite a lot and that is what he wants to do. >> chris: let me ask you about that, kirsten. a story in the washington post which basically says that is obama's game. resources concerned about making deals now than he is in positioning republicans so they lose the 2014 mid term. >> starting to look that way. an accusation republicans have been making for awhile and i was a little skep it tickal i'm more concerned about the policy aspects than the political aspects. it doesn't have to be the

apocalypse for the sequestration to be bad. >> chris: a little over 30 seconds. senator, see how you play the panel game. what do you think about the idea that he is more concerned about the mid term election than the next two years? >> when you see he a good piece of legislation if it makes sense you vote for it. 50/50 with each side. washington puts the party first and political interests than the country. >> chris: do you think can he move forward on gun control? >> not until we deal with the economic issues. he wants to put the other issues up to avoid talking about the things that matter, jobs our debt and deficit. taxes. we need to get a handle on those right away. >> chris: thank you. you did that very well. you are invited back. see you next week. don't forget to check out panel plus where the group picks right up with the discussion on our website "fox news sunday" .com. we will post the video before noon eastern time. follow us on twitter @ fox news

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>>. >> chris: as we said today marks a return to the national stage >> as we said was really a coming out for two other members of the family who were born on valentine's day. >> these are the latest editions to the romney clan. these are number 19 and 20. >> eleanor over here and this