the car, the clerk has a knowledge we can expect that we will find out who's been charged and what the charges are. we expect that. much, much more but well, were going to continue by the way with another hour of hannity as we await this breaking news as it comes. but we begin this 10:00 hour on the east coast, 7:00 on the west coast, it's a fox news alert. we are awaiting full details from fulton county, georgia, where a grand jury has handed out ten indictments in the trump case. the indictments remain sealed. we should have details of any moment. a little bit of information going out back and forth, maybe not all ten are dealing with this particular case. maybe there could be more than ten people. we don't have those details. again, we are going with reports that are widely being disseminated but we should know hopefully within the hour, we are hearing the indictment will

include possible coconspirators. what you're watching is the cover of that page of the indictment if we can put that up on the screen. that would be great. here with more, we go back to law professor and fox news computer jonathan turley. jonathan, i'm looking at that. if you're looking at the document that made it to the media talking about ten specific indictments. how do you read it as your background as the great law professor that you are? >> you're talking about ten indictments, it has not profile of a racketeering case. that's where willis gained her fame as a local prosecutor. you often will have large numbers of people linked in a conspiracy. to make out that case you have to esta conspirators. >> few crimes are on a predicate

crime list, the basis for racketeering charges. in this case they're likely to use crimes like fraud and combine all these ago force in a large comprehensive conspiracy. that's the most likely thing here. the problem is not that racket, the rico statutes were designed for the mob but they have been used far beyond the mob. the problem is how they're being used in this context. this is an election challenge in a state that had a razor thin margin roughly 11,000 votes is really nothing in the state of this size so during those days following the presidential election, the trump campaign was alleging that machines were manipulated, that there were all types of wrongdoing. they lost those claims.

but the question is, is it a crime to raise them? is it a crime, even if these allegations were untrue, to make them, to a state legislature or to a court or to the public at large. the concern is that you can create a chilling effect. keep in mind, that after this election, democratic lawyers like mark elias brought challenges alleging that machines in new york flipped votes that there was machine problems there that changed the outcome essentially. no one said that was a crime and it wasn't a crime. this is are challenges that occur in close elections, the question is, do they have anything more here? can they show that these were knowingly false claims and that officials were told to violate their oaths?

it's got to be more than telling them i believe there's voter fraud, i want a recount so we have to see what the indictment alleges specifically to base this conspiracy on. >> it certainly is from a legal standpoint this is rather unique and maybe in many ways historically unprecedented as ted cruz said but you're right talking about how rico charges have been used against the mob. then you have special counsel even in reaching back into laws designed to go after the ku klux klan and one has to look at this particular case and wonder, okay. i've read the transcript. you've read the transcript, professor. i read it multiple times and donald trump it is a long transcript that phone call. that went on for a long time. there's a lot of lawyers on that phone too and i didn't hear one lawyer speak up any moment and say excuse me mr. president this

might be inappropriate to discuss this in this way or particular form and i feel that form of pressure you're putting on me didn't happen either or shortly of that so the question is, you know, as you look at the very deep almost unprecedent way they're trying to approach going after donald trump, when somebody talks about a real belief in their heart that he believes he won by 400,000 votes that was on that phone call transcript. and another 8,000 votes here. another, you know, 17,000 votes and then it's what, 11,780 i believe that's all i need. that's hardly an indictment of the president saying, will you get me 11,780? i really think i won 400,000 more than you're counting. i think that's an overall or overarching argument he's making.

how did you interpret it? >> i did interpret the call as suggesting that i don't need many votes in a recounsel to change the outcome. it was a natural argument to make. this is essentially like a settlement call and state officials were pushing back i think in good faith saying we looked at it, we don't see those votes and trump says if you do a state recounty don't need many votes. i just need to find 11,000 and then tire election turns over. we can all debate what was in donald trump's mind but is that really the basis of a criminal case? is that what you want for future cases? elections have been challenged in this country, but in virtually every election. i've covered elections for various networks probably the less ten or so elections or it seems that many, and in every single one, we would chart and track the challenges come from the losing party and we never

accuse them of committing a crime bit. so the question here is, what do you have to diminnish this case that won't create that chilling effect? there's a problem here, by the way thairk want to flag, sean. the greatest danger better a rico case is it tends to be harder to go up on appeal before trial. the vees that the rico statute is written in a way that it's easy to establish these predicates and it's hard enough to get a cost appeals to rule before trial on these threshold issues. it's particularly hard in a rico case and so this is going to be a problem for donald trump, not just in georgia. in the d.c. case the judge could make it difficult for trump to take what i think are strong constitutional challenges to the court of appeals and supreme court. so we don't know if higher

courts will get an opportunity to throw a flag on this play. >> yeah. amazing. professor, stay with us. we are still awaiting. as we told you earlier ten indictments handed down by fulton county jury signed by the judge filed by the clerk and the clerk telling the media that he expects what would have been over an hour ago the longest period of time that you can expect it to be unsealed in three hours so it could very well be any moment now. we do have trump campaign spokesmen. the president will be talking about this and president trump will fight these bogus indictments and talking about how the d.a. in fulton county willis strategically stalled the investigation to try in maximumly interfere with the 2024 presidential race damage the dominant trump campaign all

these corrupt democratic attempts will fail intentionally slow walk the investigations, they could have brought this two and a half years ago. that's an argument president trump has made a number of times before. yet they chose to do this for election interference reasons in the middle of president trump's successful campaign and that he's leading other republicans by a lot, and leading joe biden in almost every poll. president trump represents the greatest threat to these democratses political future and the greatest hope for america, the legal double standard set against president trump must end. then he talks about the crooked biden cartel no rules for democrats republicans face charges for exercising first amendment rights. we bring back our legal panel. i promised you all that i wanted to give you all an opportunity to what we had heard earlier today when the fulton county

courthouse web site had put up a list of charges among them, rico racketeering, conspiracy, et cetera, professor dershowitz let's start with you let you respond. why did they go with that? >> first of all, we should not take there was a grand jury indictment. the best served who is on the grand jury even voted. the whole strategy of all these four cases is to get a conviction before the election even if they're going to lose on appeal. i used to teach my students many of them future prosecutors if you bring a rico case that increases your chance of winning the trial and losing on appeal. same thing true with conspiracy and other cases involving mental states. so all four of these cases are designed to get quick, quick convictions in jurisdictions that are heavily loaded against

donald trump. and these prosecutors don't care as much as prosecutors generally do about having the convictions reversed on appeal. that will happen after the election, which only goes to prove what i've been arguing now for months. if you're going after the man who is running against your incumbent president you darn well better have the strongest case possible and these are among the four at least three of them, three weakest cases i've ever seen against any candidate we don't know about the fourth but it seems like it's very much like the d.c. case. and if you're going after the man running for president against your person, you have to have the strongest case. otherwise it becomes a banana republic. anybody can prosecute anybody and we are opening the door to prosecution of democrats by republicans, republicans by democrats, it's what alexander hamilton wrote in the federalist

is the most dangerous threat to democracy and we are seeing it unfold in front of our eyes very, very tragically and i'm not a republican. i'm not a trump supporter but i care deeply about the constitution. i care deeply about preserving the rule of law and we are seeing being wasted away for partisan purposes. >> exercising your legal right to challenge voting systems is not a criminal. it's not a crime to complain which is what the trump telephone call was all about complaining about valid irregularities, failure of the court to address his petition. it's not defrauding the government if you believe you're acting lawfully and this idea of bringing racketeering challenges seems far fetched. i mean, racketeering as the professor pointed out, requires

proof of an organized criminal enterprise, coupled with a repeated pattern of systematic illegal behavior. normally involves things like extortion for monetary profit, control of property on a recurring basis. that doesn't occur here. this was a single episode of a brief duration where trump and his counsel were asking for a reconsideration of votes cast. at worst this kind of a rico case is simply guilty by association but i agree with professor dershowitz, the prosecutor in this case doesn't care. she wants a guilty verdict to sideline donald trump and interfere in the upcoming presidential election. which is, in my judgment, the definition of a corrupt act. >> all right. let me get matt whitaker's take,

same topic because i think this is very crucial here. in other words, the fact that we are talking about things that i don't think most americans a whole lot of. that's why is this a rico case, why is this a racketeering case, why did they post this earlier on the web site. in your mind having been an a.g. what is the thinking behind this? >> yes. two primary thoughts. first of all what greg just said is important but this is also being done to catapult the prosecutor's political career don't forget that. and then second, for 5 and a half years i was a u.s. attorney. i signed indictments personally. whenever the grand jury true bills, you know, i made sure i signed those presentments to the grand jury and those indictments and that said i can tell you rico cases are by far the hardest cases and you want to bring them and we tried to

especially go after mexican drug cartels, a real problem in des moines, iowa as you can imagine with the meth and the fentanyl so i would look at those cases and work with the them on trying to make rico cases but to the earlier panelies and jonathan's point those cases are tough because there's predicate offenses. you have to show the pattern and you have to show the organization. these are criminal groups. i just don't think this case rises to that level. i think this is a very aggressive application of that and really it's a pattern that i mentioned earlier when we were talking. it's these prosecutors that are solely trying to get out and get trump and try to hang an not only an indictment but they hope a conviction and most of these cases just don't have the legal structure and the legal precedent to support them and they're going to collapse after they get past these juries that are slanted against president trump. >> all right.

guys. stand by. we are again still waiting for as we repeatedly have said, we have reports now ten indictments handed down by the fulton county grand jury working late into the night signed by the judge now being filed by the clerk. the clerk has said over an hour ago the maximum time i would take would be a few hours so we are expecting all that information tonight. we turn now to somebody that knows firsthand what it's like to be on the wrong side of what we often talk about on this program, and what the house judiciary committee is investigating, whether or not, joe biden's department of justice has been split sized and weaponized and that is former campaign manager paul manafort. my recollection is your home was raided pre-dawn, guns drawn and the only thing you didn't have your friend roger stone had is

you didn't have fake no cnn cameras tipped off you were going to get raided. you spent two years in jail and one of them in isolation, and thankfully you got the pardon from president trump, but i ask you this. do you, especially when we compare and contrast the biden family, the sweetheart deal for hunter, the fact the media won't talk about joe the fact that the fix seems to be in with the appointment of david weiss, who was willing to give the sweetheart deal to hunter do you sequel justice and equal application of laws in our country, and if not, why not? >> no, not at all. this watching the hunter biden thing and watching what's going on in fulton county tonight is bringing back to me the experiences that i went through, which is you know having a prosecutor in bob mueller who understood from the day he was poisoned there was no russian collusion because we know thanks

to john durham that obama knew, brennan briefed him. he briefed the fbi. he briefed members of the administration that it was a campaign trick by hillary clinton. so, by the time in may of 2017, mueller took office, he knew there was no russian collusion. so what did he do? the goal was not to get me. it was to get donald trump. he had to find something to get into foreign policy so he went on me on unfair violations and the fair unit at the department of justice had cleared me on and worked an arrangement there were no criminal penalties no civil penalties no guilt at all and mueller's team got that thrown out so they could come after me to try to pressure me to get donald trump and to say things about donald trump that weren't true. i'm watching now what's going on with hunter biden and his laptop alone has emails and meetings

that create a fera case in about 15 minutes. they had no meetings, no activities on capitol hill no emails, but they had a motivation and just like you see in fulton county today, the motivation is part of a grand conspiracy to derail donald trump because he's and living threat to the left and what their goals are and listening to some of the panelists the blue states where they're bringing these cases i had a jury pool in washington, d.c. getting ready to go to trial i got the judge to agree to let me do a questionnaire which frankly we created like we would a poll to ask a pool of 200 jurors a series of questions to analyze whether they could be fair to me and to the potential jurorses

credit about 150 said no because they hated donald trump and they hated me because of donald trump and of the other 50 i think there were two that might have legitimately been a jury. that's in washington, d.c. where one of the cases have been brought by jack smith. you're going to see the same thing in new york where they've created a legal case that doesn't even, is not even tries to be based on state law but on federal law and it's a state case and all these theories are meant for one purpose to, derail donald trump and what they don't understand is that the fair minded americans on top of those who believe in trump are starting to see that this weaponization is a threat to their rights and parents at school board meetings, catholics at pro-life conferences are starting to see the infiltration of what is the abuse of donald trump's constitutional rights and i think as a result, that is why he's getting stronger, not weaker with these charges. but look. they're trying to keep him in courtrooms, probably this one

they'll start trying to ask a november court date so they can have november january march and may and try to have something happen that can expose him. well, it's not fair. people see it, and i trust the american people. i trust that we are going to find that even in fulton county, where they're relying on trump saying he tried to find the 11,700 votes. what was he supposed to ask for 6,000 votes? of course he would ask for the amount of votes that would have won him the state but those are the kind of flimsy foundations that these wild and very creative but unfounded legal theories are based on. >> you know, i only can imagine considering fera charges were brought up against you, the foreign corruption act issues, and i'm sure you're watching the issue with hunter and the sweetheart deal he has and i can only imagine why are they

bringing these charges against me pan give him a pass on everything and he's going to get a get out of jail free forever for any other crimes he may have committed including being charges with violations as you were. but let's go back to what you said n. the durham report, maybe two and a half years too late but it did say that operation crossfire hurricane never should have been opened. there was not one single item in the steele dossier not one that they could corroborate not a single thing. we know that the fbi in early october of 2016 that sent agents across the pond and those agents were literally offering a million dollars to christopher steele you know for the purpose of saying, can you corroborate any of your dossier. he couldn't collect a penny. i mean, you think about that and then you tell me you compare the justice system that put you in

isolation for a year in jail for two years, with a sentence that was going to go on much longer than that, and you know, you told me that while you were in jail, you were told repeatedly it was insinuated on a regular basis, just tell us what you want to know and you can pretty much walk out of here today. did that happen? >> they created theories they wanted me to agree to. they were tricky the way they tried to do it, but the whole goal was to get me to create a case that showed that donald trump was colluding with russia knew things in advance and it was active and they connected the dots. everybody in the obama administration and in the fbi and in mueller's team knew at the start of the special counsel's term that there was no violations, but what they did against me was they took fara

and used it to create a conspiracy that allowed them to break all statutes of limitations and go back 20 years to go after every dollar i made not just in ukraine but in my life and that's what hunter biden is worried about because if you look at the laptop, if they can pierce the statute of limitations that have expired, you know, they will bring back all of the charges that the laptop basically has the facts to convict him. so it's a serious problem. that's why abby lowell smartly said, well, if we don't have immunity on everything then we don't have anything. we don't have a deal. and this appointment now of david weiss special counsel is a joke because they've asked the fox to go into the chicken house. >> it's a farce. this is the guy that the irs whistleblowers identified as contradicting sworn testimony the a.g. and of david weiss

himself. now that obviously protects the attorney general and that protects david weiss because if either one of them testify before congress we are not allowed to comment on an on going investigation. that will be their predictable answer. i can promise you that. well, paul thank you. i hope people understand this is happening to a lot of people and you know, now polls show the person people are getting it more than ever and that is we have a two tier or dual system of justice. >> what they don't understand sean is this just makes donald trump stronger and it doesn't lessen his resolve at all. >> i don't think it's going to lessen his resolve. i think he's made that abundantly clear what impact it may have in terms of the process in terms of the nomination for the republican party for president what impact it could potentially have, i don't know, on independent voters and you spent your entire life in politics and in a general

election, this is territory we have never really been down before. the one phenomenon has been with each new charge against president trump politically he's gotten stronger. will this trend continue? i've got to imagine that it probably will because at some point the american people are going to say, hold on a second. you gave this guy a sweetheart deal. joe biden lied to us repeatedly about his son his foreign business partners ever meeting with them, ever talking with them, actively involved in conversations with them, that he was the brand, it certainly wasn't hunter. i think there's a lot more to come on that front. people are saying this doesn't look right, doesn't smell right. paul manafort thank you. joining me former trump senior adviser stephen miller. you're obviously in touch with a lot of friends now the trump campaign. what is their reaction and your

reaction personally? >> let me just say everybody in trump world everybody who was a friend associate colleague of president trump's staff is appalled and horrified by not just the persecution relentlessly of president trump but of anybody who has ever worked with him, anybody who has served with him, this is an all out effort to use our legal system to purge president trump and his staff out of the political system entirely. you just talked to paul manafort. he was a political prisoner. mike flynn was a political prisoner. michael stone. now they want donald trump to be a political prisoner and as levin said they're adding up indictments that could lead to a thousand years in jail. north korea wouldn't even dream of something like. this my question tonight is at what point are elected republicans going to realize the gravity and the severity of this threat? the radical left just keeps

pushing and pushing and pushing and all they find is soft jelly. if elected republicans don't realize the magnitude of what is happening than the liberty we have known in this country for almost three centuries will be gone, sean. i truly believe that. >> you know, our friend, chatterley hurt, mark levin has said this is a post-constitutional america. americans are now asking that question. house judiciary has a full on investigation. we also have a sort of inter twining investigation in the house oversight committee. rightly, i believe americans are looking at the sweetheart deal deal offered hunt looking at the lack of coverage about joe biden's severe lies as candidate and president involving some of our biggest geo political foes and literally 10s of millions of dollars finding their way into the biden family coffers. then we have the shell corporations where they're funneling the money through and

then we find according to james comer nine biden family members are paid. they tried to pull a fast one but for the diligence of this delaware judge they would have got away letting hunter and through hunter joe biden off the hook on all this but thankfully in the diversion portion of that plea agreement the judge read excuse me does this mean you've completed all future investigations? at that point it fell apart. i believe there was a wink and nod between david weiss and his office that had by the way recommended felony charges that he didn't abide with, and of course, the defense that's my theory and your thoughts. >> yeah. it's all so obvious i don't think you have to be a lawyer or some political expert. you don't have to be watching all that closely to realize the depth of the devil standard and the corruption that's going on here both in terms of what we are seeing with hunter biden and

president biden and the entire family checking millions of dollars from foreign adversaries in exchange for selling out american foreign policy and probably other things as well, such as mailing a billion dollars to ukraine. that's u.s. tax dollars mostly by the way. but then also, in terms of what we are seeing tonight with president trump and this is not something knew. this is, you know, it's been years since we first learned about the quote-unquote insurance policy that fbi agents were going to use to prevent donald trump from getting elected in the first place. of course he got elected anyway, and but even back then, the entire legal apparatus at the direction of the democrat party and back then, barack obama, president obama was being directed to go after donald trump and of course, he got elected, and ever since then,

they have never relented whether it was the obama administration or the, administrative state at doj and then democrats in congress and they have never stopped trying to pervert our cherished judicial system to take care of a political enemy, and of course, stephen makes a good point will be republicans. you know, part of the problem for donald trump is that he's also taken on republicans and he's overhauled the republican party and by doing that, he has drawn enemies in this case in georgia. you've got political hacks down in georgia testifying with political motivation against donald trump in this case. openly admitting that they hate donald trump and that's why they're testifying. this is, this entire thing is a

political hit job, and they will never stop unless we american people stop it for them. if they get away with this, what they're doing right now, this is the way politics will be carried out in america for the rest of all time. >> all right, charlie hurt and stephen miller thank you for being with us and we go atlanta, georgia where matt finn is outside the fulton county courthouse. what can you tell us? i guess everybody like us here are waiting for this indictment to be unsealed. >> yes, sean we are waiting. a short while ago i talked to george gee an independent journalist who was subpoenaed in this case and he sat independent sigh the courthouse all day and told me he ultimately did not testify in this case. i asked him if he felt like this case was speeded up today and he felt like it was, because initially he was asked to testify tomorrow but he was brought in today and he sat in

the courthouse for many hours today and ultimately did not testify. he was here because he claims in part that back in december of 2020, he walked into a room where some of the trump electors were holding some type of meeting and he was kicked off out of it. that's why he claims he was here today. but earlier today as we have been reporting on this show, there was, there were some documents that surfaced on the fulton county web site that appeared to show the indictment laid out against donald trump, up to 39 charges against him, including the racketeering, and then those documents suddenly disappeared and late nerd the day the fulton county clerk came out told us those were fictitious but if you look at them closely they look authentic and legitimate so makes you wonder if any of this process was sped up today as that person subpoenaed felt like it was because those documents surfaced on the fulton county web site and sean about an hour and a half ago the clerk here fulton county said we can expect to

learn what was inside those indictments in a maximum of three hours or kind of maybe at the halfway point now. our understanding is the clerk has to manly type the indictment into the system for it to become public. once that happens, we will learn much more who is potentially named in these indictments here in fulton county , sean. >> all right, thank you matt finn outside the fulton county courthouse joining us now legal spokesperson for president trump alena haba is back with us. let's pick up where matt went off the atlanta prosecutors revealing offenses to which they plan to charge president trump and then claiming it was fictitious, although matt riley pointed out they did look authentic and know, facing a number of charges that we spoke all throughout the night rico anti-racketeering laws conspiracy facilities statement asking public official to violate their oath of office

where again we are waiting for fulton county indictments to be unsealed. i'm sure we are at the halfway point but when they told us the maximum amount of time which means we can get it any moment. >> right. we can get it any moment but think about what he just said. he spoke to somebody inside and the timeline doesn't make sense. if the clerk needs to manually put in each count how did the clerk have that pick first mistake earlier? i'm lost on that. because it laid out counts individually and that must have taken time f. you ask me sean what i think happened here today was that they had a lot of press as we saw sitting in the courtroom laughing thinking this was a joke, it's just a great press moment having cameras in the background and they make a hiccup. they by accident uploaded the clerk hit had a button and that's what i think happened. then they rushed. they had any witness that was supposed to be there tomorrow as we just heard wait in the

courtroom to come in and testify today because of that error because she needed to get this done quickly. it's 10:30 at night. president trump did not murder someone. this is not o.j. simpson. this is not a fleeing criminal who has done something crazy and malicious to another person. it's just ridiculous that we are sitting here as if we are watching a police chase. and it's all by design. it's pathetic. you know, you brought up the durham report. we have seen that we have seen what happened there. you and i actually covered when i sued hillary and we had that thrown out and i was sanctioned for bringing charges that now we know have come out in the durham report and are accurate. there is world we are in. fourth indictment of a president of the united states, who had the country leading economically had fear in china had real issues under control and instead

we have open borders mayhem and they're doing what? library books. looking at accounting in new york. and now having another indictment for him, questioning the integrity of this country's elections? that is what we are doing to a president that served this country very well i may ask? it is so sad to me. it's just really sad to me. >> and as we've been pointing out all long this never happened to a former president never mind a leading contend nerd the upcoming presidential contest leading by significant margins for the republican nomination. in other words, leading candidate to take on the current president and it's the current president's executive branch his department of justice part of the executive branch that is doing this, let me ask you this. you now have four assuming four respirate indictments this being the fourth tonight but that

doesn't include the superceding indictments in florida and i guess that could happen elsewhere also. that i have to imagine i know the president has a number of lawyers. have you i guess allocated the various cases to individual teams? how is that working out for the president? how is that going to play out? >> yes. well, the president is fortunate enough. he has had a tremendous amount of people coming to ask to be a part of the team and we do go through a process obviously to vet and find people that we find to be the right fit. we have attorneys in place on all of these, including georgia of course, and whether we move things around or not is to be seen depending on the charges but i can tell you that we have a very strong team. i'm not concerned in terms of the actual defense of the cases, and i'm fortunate to work with a lot of these attorneys. it's fantastic they're working to fight for the country and the

president. >> we appreciate you standing by, legal spokesperson for the president's and one of his attorneys. alena we appreciate your time. we bring back the host of special report, bret baier. in the context of how all this now if the special counsel has his way, we know the washington, d.c. case would start on january 2nd. now, this we look at the political timeline and you look at the number of cases the president could be fighting in the middle of a primary and fallen in the middle of a presidential election, it is just ground this country has never gone through. now, the president keeps reminding people that his belief is this in and of itself is a mountain of lawsuits, or sorry indictments they're throwing on him is in and of itself interference in an election. you'll be covering a lot of

this. in nine days from now you're going to be hosting with martha the republican primary debate. we are not sure whether or not president trump will be at that debate but certainly the other candidates will. when you look at the timeline and the magnitude of this and the historical precedent set here give me your overall objective view of it. >> well, first of all, if the former president shows up or he doesn't show up he's still going to be a part of the debate because this is a central part of the g.o.p. primary and it's going to have to be questioned about how they feel about all of this unfolding. a lot of them have spoken about it as we talked about two tiered system of justice but how others on that stage will say they believe they're better positioned to win the general election as ~ed to to the former president. i think that you know you look at the possibility of a trial january 2nd the august 28th the judge comes back in the january 6th case and says, i side with

the prosecutors the government and say january 2nd is the trial date, that's 13 days before the i iowa caucuses. you have a series of legal positions you have to get to and you have a documents case essentially in july right before the republican national convention in milwaukee the same stage they'll do the debate on next week. we have never seen anything like this. this is so utterly surreal and yet it is what we are facing and yet each indictment as you note that former president's poll numbers have gone up. i want to say this caveat in that these charges are very serious. >> this is not our first rodeo. we have been through a number of presidential campaigns together. to me, this defies all conventional wisdom. doesn't it? the idea that an indictment

leads to higher poll numbers within the party, and more loyalty and a feeling that this is not about prosecution, but persecution, and then of course, you bring in the hunter biden, joe biden factor, joe biden lying, we talked about earlier, it adds even another dimension to this. doesn't it? >> it does, and it creates sympathy actually in g.o.p. circles, even some folks who maybe didn't want to vote for trump say, why are they going after him so hard? maybe there's a reason for this and they give a second look to him. then the candidates on the stage will likely say listen i'm trump policies without the chaos and baggage. so far that hasn't taken off the you look at the poll numbers. this caveat these charges are serious and add up to a number of years if he's convicted of these crimes but this one is different. this is a state charge so it

cannot be pardoned by himself as president. he cannot pardon it. another president could mother pardon him. the georgia governor does not have the right to pardon any one of these crimes and he cannot get rid of the district attorney. so these charges in and of themselves are different and they carry with them a different complexity, not only that, the sheriff there, so far in fulton county says there will be a mug shot if and when this arrest happens. >> yes. bret we will be watching tomorrow on special report. i'll be at the debate next week and look forward to interviewing all the candidates in the spin room right after you and martha get done with that debate. appreciate it. we bring in fox news contributor jason chafits and tommy laren. jason, let's get your take on. this you've been following. this you've been at the tip of

the iceberg in terms of in the case of trump-russia collusion as an example and now you're with the government accountability institute. in terms of that case as durham pointed out and even michael horowitz had a lot of criticism and referrals that weren't followed up but the idea that operation crossfire hurricane should never have been brought against donald trump and it was three years of never ending media lies and conspiracy theories they pedalled:this wasn't thing in the dossier without the dossier no fisa warrant proved by a court, the baseless fisa want three signed by the fbi director and now here we are again and it seems like this just does not stop from the moment that man came down that escalator with his wife melania. am i wrong in my perception here? >> no.

the washington post ran an article the day he was inaugurated the indictment or the impeachment was about to begin and in this particular case, sean, i'm looking at this and thinking has anybody talked to governor stacy abrams about there? you know, she lost to governor kemp but she still has never admitted he won. she challenged it every which way you could imagine, told everybody that there was fraud and there was miscounts all kinds of not just excuses but saying this. so how is that different than these charges that they're bringing up against donald trump? i'm offended that this happened in 2020. we are about to turn the corner on labor day, the kind of unofficial start to the next campaign season and eventually this happens, two and a half years after this? are you telling me that's just a mere coincidence with the others that are happening here? i love that the clerk is during this during primetime. are you kidding me?

they walk past the judge's billboard with his picture and his mug shot, his fancy shot up there as they deliver the paperwork right in primetime? this is all made for television. that's what is disgusting about it and fannie willis a couple days ago the prosecutor got a makeover and put out a campaign fundraiser it was totally scripted saying we are gearing up, we are getting ready, make a donation, here is my new picture this is what's going on. this is america. i can't believe the comparison between stacy abrams and what's going on here. it's just so wrong. >> well, can you also look at new york. you have a a.g. and d.a. ran on a platform they're going after one man one family and one organization. they ran on that platform and clearly are fulfilling a campaign promise. you know, tommy, you have a

great influence with younger people. always demographicly in election seasons we look to younger people to get their perceptions. you're talking to and communicating with a lot of people that are younger. what are they saying about this? what's their perception of all this? >> well, here's the big problem that we are facing rights now. you've got half the country believe everything is rigged, that the country is going to hell that, everybody is bs, and you have the other half of the country that doesn't seem to care because they don't think it impacts their everyday life and that's going to be the challenge here. this next indictment if it comes might get donald trump the nomination. if he is our nominee he's going to face another set of challenges and so is everybody who has campaigned for republicans whether it's donald trump or anybody else with an r

behind their name they're going to have to compete not only against the court but the court of public opinion. that's the other half of. this the american people need to understand how this applies to their lives, not just donald trump, whom some people see as a billionaire, some people see as a man they hate. the american people need to understand how this banana republic how this weaponization of charges is going to impact their daily life and the-like implications of a government that's got so big it can come after any time and be so collosal you can't fight back again it. we are lucky we have carom with the resources and platform he can fight back against all this but the average american doesn't have that. they need to understand that this sets a precedent can can go after the former maybe future president. they can go after you too. it's not just about donald trump. this is about make america great again movement that he starred that he fueled that he is still

the lifeblood of because make no mistake these democrats don't want to just take down donald trump. they want to take down make america great again trump supporters the america first movement which can exist without donald trump but not right now. so, they want to take out two threats, the people and the man movement. that's what is most concerning. that has to be communicated to the everyday, average independent voter out there, young, old and in between they have to understand what this means for them. >> we are still awaiting. we have had ten indictments handed down by the fulton county grand jury working unusually late into the night nearly up to our original air time at 9 p.m. eastern 6 p.m. pacific signed by the judge filed by the clerk, where clerk said it would probably be a maximum 3 and a half hours until fulton county indictments were unseal. i would assume jason if we were to look at what atlanta

prosecutors put up on their web site earlier today, about charging former president trump, they included issues involving 13 counts including violation of anti-racketeering laws rico conspiracy and false statements and asking a public official to violate their oath of office, how much is reale to the infamous phone call? i don't know. we are still awaiting all of that but i would imagine it's probably very close to what was put up on that web site. i have a press strong inclination it will look pretty similar. >> yes, what the judge is looking at there on the screen which happened earlier, that's an awful lot of pages. obviously tommy and i haven't read it yet. these are very serious charges as brett said not in a federal court that's a different scenario for the president. i think this is going a very tough set of circumstances in a

very tough part, but again, i just, it really does bother me, the way this happens. this is not the way they treat anybody else, doing this in primetime is just fundamentally wrong. >> yes. tommy, same question. >> and again, as jason said, we are still awaiting a lot of this but you know it doesn't help the thoughts of the american people when you have something go up and they say, oh that was fictitious and we have this waiting game here. it doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence in the american people that all of this is above board and it's being handled appropriately. whether it is or not we don't know but when you but out things and you get people speculating in this day and you have this dog and pony show like jason said lights camera action the american people are looking at this waiting but it doesn't give us a lot of confidence things are going to be handled appropriately. that's another part of the situation that has to be

communicated to the american people. you know donald trump before he was a presidential candidate was a celebrity but as yeas on said there's a whole lots of people who are looking to be celebrities and reality stars on the back of donald trump and on the back of our justice system and i quite frankly as jason said find that quite disgusting. >> all right. tommy laren and jason thank you we continue former speaker of the house newt gingrich is with us and what we are seeing on our screen looks like they are now setting up for the d.a. of fulton county fani willis press conference. i'm assuming that would come after the fulton county indictments are unsealed. that of course can come at any moment. we now, are about within an hour and a half between the time limit that the clerk gave after the indictments were signed by the judge and the clerk says

longest maximum time would be 3 and a half hours. if there's two counties of georgia i can think of newt gingrich, well, hang on. now we are hearing riot certificates -- reuters a statement prosecutors believe he's charged with 11 counts in the document. we did read earlier one page we thought we had that it was ten but that could mean a number of things. that doesn't mean it's just a throat al of ten people. it could multiple people charged with the same counts but we will see. if there's two counties mr. speaker i wouldn't want to be a republican and have a trial one would be fulton the other dekalb county, the percentage that went to donald trump is low but better than the 12 percent new york and 5 percent washington, d.c., 23-24 percent in falcon county not exactly the jury pool for a conservative or

republican. >> you know, there's a thing hive been watching all evening. finally hit me. just how incompetent they are. the district attorney should wait until tomorrow morning. >> mr. speaker, i've got to interrupt you if i can. let me just tell our audience what reuters is confirming we have not confirmed that prosecutors are charging donald trump with violations of the georgia iraq open ago, prosecutors charging donald trump with solicitation of violation of oath by a public officers, with forgery in the first degree, prosecutors charge 10 others including former trump aide, rudy giuliani, reuters reporting. your reaction to that and then we will go back to fulton and dekalb. >> none of that is a surprise and that is kitchen sink

indictment. they sat around you could have done this with a handful of first year law students and they said what's the wides range of things that will help us smear donald trump. they threw them all together. the classic story that you can get a ham sandwich indicted by a grand jury because the power of the prosecutor coming in with no defense attorneys no rules of evidence no cross-examination. so, you know, this is a rigged deal. everybody knows that. but what i'm struck with tonight, sean, and i don't want to make too much of this but i think it's interesting just as what you saw the other day with the appointment of weiss as special counsel who is just incompetent, made no sense. >> mr. speaker if i can interrupt you again. we have more news. parently mark meadows and mark east man have been indicted as well. literally i'm opening up what looks like an indictment. can i ask the people in the control room, are you sure this isn't from earlier today?

it looks exactly like the indictment we saw earlier today on that web site. but it talks about -- this is the official? apparently violation of the georgia rico racketeering influence and corruption act solicitation and violation of oath by a public officer, conspiracy to commit impersonating a public officer and when we start putting these up on the screen as quickly as we can, conspiracy to commit forgery in the first degree. these are all felonies by the way. conspiracy to commit false statements and writings, conspiracy to commit false documents, conspiracy to commit forgery in the first degree, false documents, false statement in writings, solicitation of violation of oath by a public officer and false statement in writings once again. again, this is all now this is

what has been released reuters reporting mark meadows charged east man and rudy giuliani charged charged not independently corroborated by fox but that's the news that just broke mr. speaker sorry to interrupt you. >> no, look. we used to talk about the majesty of the law, the idea that the law should be above reproach, the idea there significant dignity, solemnity, seriousness. this is a badly run circus act. they can't figure out how many indictments there are. they pull back the leak and leaking it is again and she comes out tonight and has a press conference at midnight or 1 a.m. it will be a further example of how totally desperate and how incompetent these people are. this is all surreal stuff. it's conceivable they can

actually get some convictions. you have a rigged jury. you have a rigged district attorney. you're going to have enormous pressure from people who hate trump. so i think that we can't take this lightly, but it is an extraordinary effort to try to destroy a political leader who at least half the country thinks ought to be the next president. all the polling data, he's at least in the 48, 49, 50 percent range. i think for a district attorney to take on this kind of authority is dangerous. >> it looks like >> sean: not only were they part of this indictment, 41 count indictment against trump, 18 others in total. these are the ones that we are putting up on the screen that i just read to you. and so this is just -- we are awaiting now -- since we came on the program at 9:00 tonight.

and meadows has been indicted. we have john eastman has been indicted. rudy giuliani has been indicted. and i will say some of the predictable names. we have less than a minute of our coverage. [i will give you the last word, mr. speaker. >> imagine if this were al gore supporters when he contested florida in 2000. or imagine the amount of money these people would have to spend to hire lawyers against a viciously corrupt democratic district attorney. this is a direct threat to the american system and the rule of law. >> sean: do you think that the american people see what jim jordan' is investigating, and equal justice under the law, the weaponization of the doj and how it has been politicized? what are the consequences of that? >> more and more, i think just watch the numbers rise every week.

more and more americans realize that whether you like a truck or you dislike trump, these people are undermining the very base of the american system and the constitution and the rule of law. that is gradually becoming a conviction way beyond the truck based. >> sean: well said. by the way, greg gutfeld will be back in his usual spot. thank you for being with us. this day with the fox news channel. >> trace: good evening. it is 11:00 p.m. on the east coast, and this is america's late news, "fox news @ night." brank it tonight, former president donald trump is now facing a fourth indictment. he has been invited -- indicted for the fourth time. this is regarding alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. we know there are 10 indictments. we have now have the indictment in our hand. we also have kind of a list of the charges and exactly what is happening. you can see live on your screen there, we are about to hear from the fulton count