decisions on campuses that is something for college universities leadership to decide on. >> finally one more as a dog lover hears of -- >> alright john we're getting a heads up she was addressing it right then but they just maintain that they don't support violence. >> so real quick paul we've got 30 seconds left, what is the threshold that could trigger nypd actually going on the campus? >> when you start to sea real injuries and it starts to spill over into public spaces than of course -- and of course is someone just calls 911. if someone their calls 911 and says they've been injured or attacked than the police have to respond. but right now on private property, colombia is the complainant and that's what you need. >> alright thank you paul. we've got to jump out we was you tomorrow i'm john roberts. >> and sandra smith sink you for joining us. martha starts now. >> martha: are you guys think

you breaking news coverage continues this are good afternoon everyone i'm martha maccallum and this is clearly the story of the afternoon. we are about one hour past the deadline where students were supposed to leave the encampment at columbia. they were supposed to pack up and get out of there as sandra pointed out classes are remote there is no reason for any student to be on campus right now at columbia. that was their original wave try to break this up but they are defiant. as we just heard from some leadership a little while ago pack they feel that they are the ones who have rights. they talked about their right to graduate. they talked about how the sea their rates been trampled on by the university. stunning statements we heard a few short minutes ago. they will face suspension columbia says from this ivy league school if they don't follow the rules of the university which they don't seem to have any regard for at this point. we are also seeing packets but this puts me know, university of

texas a public university we do see state law enforcement on the campus there facing off with students. it's peaceful so far but, you know, these are the kind of scenes that remind people of the vietnam protests where we did see clashes between law-enforcement and students on campuses. even deadly ones and ohio if you go back to that period. obviously they are working hard to keep these in the situation and to keep people safe but the rules are being trampled on and and austen it's a different situation then at columbia. we are watching this split screen. this whole thing has spread like wildfire. we are seeing new college encampments every single day making this environment unbearable for many jewish students. many have left the campus and are not being protected by the school. not being protected by law enforcement to be able to proceed to their classrooms and leave their dorms and live safely. many protesters are calling for

an end to israel so where does this all end? watch this... [ chanting ] >> martha: that was the scene in athens georgia at the university. campus police arrested protesters today after refusing to leave. marcus denning backpack alexis mcadams covering the live breaking news at columbia university this our. hello alexis. >> hi martha i. it's past 3:00 ray? still the protesters are out here. i will walk you closer here you can see the casa solidarity encampment week of watching here for several days. by now you would've thought when you get told you are suspended and you can graduate you will be out of here. but they are showing appeared not only inside, take a look outside. this is what's happening just outside columbia's gates where there calling on the university to have complete transparency

for all of columbia's investments and amnesty for all student and faculty disciplined or fired in this movement that bases for the pounds to new liberation here. as we heard a short time ago from some students lead to the charge here echo me sabr not going anywhere or breaking down the sink at meant even though it's past the deadline until the school goes with their demands. i thank a lot of questions people have here will go to the school at her looking for graduation. their parents who pay all this money to send them to columbia university in new york fact who's in charge here? is of the present of the university or students setting up the encamp and squeak will walk you closer to this way as well you can sea some signs that say palestine must be free. you cannot cover genocide. and if we can shoot over here a little bit, you can sea some students walking here around campus. this is kind of a new frontier, they walk around and chant than more students add in. a lot of them have masks on. we check in with a few of them

but they don't talk the media. they say the media is also complicit in genocide at this point at they don't have anything to say to us. is difficult to hear about their movement when they won't talk to us but the president is saying she is going to have more information around 6:00 pm tonight. the nypd told me in sources they are on standby but this is a private campus, they cannot move in here and arrest any students like we saw the other day unless they get that call from the nypd. but they tell me there on standby and ready to come in with zip ties yet again to arrest more students. >> martha: and a quick question you said we will hear from the president around 6:00 but the statement she put out earlier said you had two choices at 2:00. you assigned a form and remain not suspended on campus, or he would be suspended. so, do you see any of that taking place anywhere? >> no. i haven't seen that at all. always sees people marching

around calling for this. i think that's right, when you're told he will get in trouble and you don't get in trouble why wouldn't you just keep doing it again? we haven't seen any action but will keep you posted. >> martha: let's bring in mark deason, american enterprise institute senior fellow washington fox news can trigger. good to have you. her words are worthless at this point. she has allowed them to break every single barrier that she has set down or time limit she is set down. it doesn't seem like the president is in charge but nothing at this point mark. >> know she has lost control of her campus and she is not doing right by the students. the vast majority of hidden or not engaged in this behaviour. these students don't seem to get the irony that there protesting what they incorrectly call an illegal occupation by engaging in an illegal occupation. they don't even get that the doing exactly what they condemn. and they also don't understand how the first amendment works. it gives you the right of

freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, they are interfering with the right of free assembly of the rest of the students on the campus to go to their classrooms. there interfering with the free assembly rates of their students to go to their graduation and celebrate four years of hard work. their interfering -- the first minute does give the right to again engage and disorderly conduct and disrupt the lives of everyone else around you. it also doesn't protect you from the consequences of doing that. so if these kids get kicked out of school and everyone should be, they should be kicked out of school. that's the consequence of your action, you don't have a right to graduate if you behave this way. you don't have a right to be in columbia if you behave this way. >> i don't know her name but there is a student speaking with the press moments ago and said something like they are stepping on our right to graduate and i thought to myself no one has a right to graduate. you are in your graduation rate? i don't know about you but when i was in school if you broke the rules you kicked out of school.

you know, we all know people that happened to. but it's stunning to me that this president doesn't speak out -- she said this and a letter but the letter has no teeth because it doesn't seem to be happening although this is austin where there taking people not new york. but she said in a letter basically we all have a right to be here and we need to tolerate each other's different opinions on thanks. but you can't deflect the rights of these other students. the jewish students are all at home and these students have taken over. no one is standing up for their rights. echo back to the black children and arkansas that police officers protected their right to go to class and made sure they could enter building. wise that not happening here mark we. >> first of all this young lady i don't think she has been in class recently. i'm pretty sure she is not sitting in her tent writing papers. so you don't have a right to graduate if you don't do you're

work and you disrupt the rates of other students to do their work and go to class. in terms of what you just said the, the other day it extended its transfer deadline because it wanted to make sure there was space available for jewish students who felt unsafe. can you imagine if howard university was forced to stand his transfer deadline because black students were being harassed in the way these students are? could you imagine what the black lives matter movement would do if black students had to leave campus because white supremacists occupied the central square? it's absurd. >> martha: it's a very good analogy. if that were happening, you know, or if gay students were told they can be on campus, can you imagine? so why is this okay happening to jewish students and 2024? there is so little understanding when they talk about the occupation. any of these students could

listen to you right now, what would you say to them? to help them understand your perspective on a, maybe not there is but your perspective. >> while you have a right to have you're views. you have a right to be pro- hamas and a right to express those things. you don't have a right to do and a way that interferes with the rights of other people to express their views and attend school for example you have a right to protest but you don't have a right to block a bridge and interfere with the safety people trying to get from one place to another to save lives. you don't have a right to engage in disorderly conduct. the first amendment doesn't give you license to do whatever the heck you want in order to disrupt other people's lives. >> martha: let me play some sound for you this is from over the weekend. some of these protests. listen specifically to what's being said. it is one person, we are seeing a lot of signs and different things but listen to this... >> go back to europe!

>> israel will cease to exist if not for the u.s. [ cheering ] >> martha: so you hear them cropping at the idea israel would cease to exist. there saying the u.s. needs to withdraw all of our support and that will help them reach their goal which would be an nonexistent israel. the first man who is pushing back yelling, "back to europe! go back to poland! that's where you really from. what would you say to that man? >> can you imagine if there was a bunch of white supremacists occupied campus and saying from sea to shining sea america we'll be free of black people. go back to africa. go back. you don't belong here. there should be no black people in this country, that's what they're saying about israel and

the equivalent. i will tell you the reason these protests are growing the way they are is because they are working martha, they're having an impact and their pressuring the biden administration. it is responding by pressuring israel. today tony blank end is an the middle east. they were supposed to do it months ago but they have held off. if you're one of these protesters why would you stop? it is working. biden is afraid of you and he is listening to you. biden is doing what he wants -- what you want him to do he is pressuring israel to stop their attack on hamas. why would you quit? you should keep going because he is listening. >> martha: it seems -- absolutely. the protesters are winning at the white house and we know there were protests within the white house and, you know, president biden was pretty staunch and his support initially. we've seen that sort of change

over time to something less but what about the issue of gaza? what about what they call the occupation of gaza? what would you say to them about that? the political reality on the ground between israel and occupation of gaza? >> first of all there is no occupation of gaza, israel voluntarily pulled out its troops and handed it over into thousand five. they elected hamas. second of all they see cease-fire, there was a cease-fire october 6th. israel didn't break the cease-fire, it was hamas that did it. and it was hamas heading -- hiding behind children and innocent civilians. if you look at ukraine pack their subways in ukraine where civilians have gone while troops are on the ground protecting the country, the civilians are in the tunnels. in gaza it is the opposite.

hamas is in the tunnels and force the civilians on the top to phase the bombs because they are using them as human shields. these people are monsters. there is never going to be peace or long-term in the long-term solution so long as hamas is allowed to exist. if you want peace and you claim you want -- but they won't -- don't want palestinian state they would all be. they chant we don't want freak out so we what all of it. we want all of it. so they are not even interested in it but there won't be peace as long as hamas exists. >> let me ask you something else. we don't hear much about the seven americans still being held. there is a video of him recently and besought another of an american over the weekend. thirty-three americans were killed when hamas stormed into israel. i don't know how much these students know or care about those american lives that it been lost at the hands of hamas

but if they don't know or understand it maybe some of them do and are fine with it, i'm not sure, but, you know, what could we expect the president to say or dew? you wrote speeches for an american president, what could president do to help understanding all of this? >> there is no understanding with these people. there is no negotiating with these people, their radicals and some are marxists. their pro- hamas. you literally see kids holding flags with guns and rockets on then. you see them wearing hamas headbands and harassing jews. they are not people to be negotiated with or reason with. but the president ought to do is what bill quentin did is to call these people out. called them what they are, their pro- terrorist supporters. stand up to them because the fact the most damaging thing for joe biden, 54% of americans

think he is making decisions on the basis of his domestic political concerns in the israel and hamas were not -- what's best for america. >> martha: one second, this is a jewish student at the austin campus. >> the rest of students allowed to be in class that makes no sense its against western values not just a jewish problem this is an american problem. >> are you all students? >> yes, i was just taking a final ad this is -- there try to scare jews off of campus. i'm trying to do my final in the back on i hear them chanting for the death of israel and death of jews. it's complete the unacceptable. if they want peace they don't stand for anything like it. israel is a democratic state, the only democracy in the middle east. at the end of the day they don't want jews on cap is there try to scare us off. they don't want us are. >> we'll you be scared off? >> absolutely not. we'll not follow our history or lead like lambs to the slaughter. >> dew you want to come back we.

>> they are telling us to stay away at least my parents are. in my opinion i'm going right into it. we have to be strong at this time. history shows that we are strong weekend defend ourselves. >> are you going to come back we >> of course. >> we are not going anywhere. this whole thing is a huge scare tactic. >> when you sea what's happening at other campuses across the country the administration doing nothing, we're blessed to be at a school where they are happy to send in a police force and protect the rights of all students not just jewish students but anyone who might be at from protesters. >> i've heard other jewish students today at appropriate stent and rally supporting this. what do you say to those classmates? other jewish students. >> i think to them it definitely is upsetting as a jew because i think they aren't educated. type personally have been to israel a times and in on the border of lebanon and gaza and

seen it all firsthand. i'd love to talk to them and say what if using, where vb and? have you heard holocaust survivors speak or victims of terrorist attacks speak? i think they are very misaligned and it's a shame because they should be a part of the jewish community that's there to support them. >> and general hugh have a vary leftist lgbtq2ai population in that crowd. they have no idea what would happen if they were to step foot in palestine, they would be stoned and beheaded. israel in fact is one of the only nations i believe the only nation in the middle east that supports lgbtq2ai people. i find it ridiculous that you have 70 people and that crowd that are so ignorant of this fact honestly. >> while very interesting comments from those students. that young woman saying that she is thankful she is at ut austin

because they aren't afraid to hold up the rules at the campus about protesting and what is allowed and not allowed. infringing on other people's rights. you are that young men say he is trying to take a final and he hears people outside saying death to israel. that's a little distracting pack mark, when you're trying to do your exams. very strong statements at a also think it's inspiring when you think these jewish students who say i'm not going anywhere this is my campus to. i am entitled to the education that my family work hard to pay for and i'm not going anywhere. i think that's inspiring, mark. >> oh my gosh so inspiring. look at those kids they are so brave. they are so composed and there so articulate. and they are so determined. this is the thing i think pro- hamas people don't understand. jews are never going back to the days of the holocaust. there are no doors never going to be left defenceless and we'll never back down in the face of

evil people trying to destroy them. that's why israel is doing what it's doing, they won't allow another holocaust. hamas said they will intend to do that. it will not be end of their october 7, it will be 10,000 more and it will do it until every jew in israel is dead. they won't stand down and let that happen. and that kid how hard must it be to try to study for an exam while people are calling for your death outside the window? that is what happened in germany before the holocaust. they are not putting up with it anymore and god bless them. >> they were kids in columbia holding signs next to them, the next targets with an arrow pointing at them. it's pretty incredible. and, you know, hamas started this. hamas has held them the palestinian people and they are supporting the palestinian people and need to have an

understanding of what's been done to them under a government that's run by hamas. they brought all this hellfire on them. mark stay with us. i have nypd chief of patrol john schell on the phone. gaddafi. i want to get a quick take from you on what's going on in the area near columbia. we see students continuing to march around campus, walk in your folks to, your members of the nypd inside the campus and outside the campus and what are they doing this afternoon? >> right now were doing what we've been doing as a c. outside we have 100 or 150 protesters on broadway outside the school. you see cops monitoring that. in terms of the campus itself that's being handled by campus security and administration. obviously we can go on campus if it's a crime that's been committed. poet can enforce the rules that's up to the school.

another still negotiating, it's been going for a week and now. i thank the deadline passes at 2:00. the school make a decision what they will do here, we are on standby and ready to go if they need us. but we need the writing from the school and tell us what they want. until that time were still in the same posture right now. >> understood and we know there is a large forest up there around the school of your officers. what is the direction that you all have been given by the mayor brawled as. >> the direction is we are in charge of the outside, contained a protest and make sure it's orderly and take action when we have two. we can't take any action until they implicitly put writing of what they want. that will do the same thing we did last week and taking kids off-campus. but the school wants to continue with negotiations and again we are standing buy for them. >> martha: so, with regard to the people we saw one woman

arrested a short time ago, outside of the campus, what kinds of behaviour leads to that >> right now as you so we saw some people push the barricade and that's what we should be doing. so we will deal with that we won't tolerate that. >> and what happens to a woman like that? a kind of action is taken generally? >> we will take it to the precinct and but supposed -- possibility of interest we will determine that when they get to there and determine what happens. >> figure for the efforts of the nypd to keep the peace in the area and we always appreciate speaking with you. thank you chief. >> no problem have a good day. >> martha: the scenes we are watching this play out across the country we will continue to stay on for you because they are a big factor or one of the large

factors in the 2024 election at least at this stage of the game. and we do sea some weakening numbers over the weekend for president biden as young voters are failing on the incumbent. they're pushing some stalwart democrats into panic mode. >> utilities on people if you don't get involved right now, in this election, they are going to be involved in your life for the rest of your life. that's alright, you know, 26 road you don't feel like elections are important, they are addressing the issues that i care about. >> martha: jim crowe and ron williams next

alright we are covering breaking news this afternoon. you see on the left-hand side of your screen austin texas at the university where they have brought in state law enforcement officials as they tried to clear the protest. columbia university dealing with inside and outside large numbers of students and nonstudents outside the gates a couple of them getting arrested this afternoon the deadline came and went at columbia. university president saying must leave by 2:00 or risk suspension. now apparently she is going to make some statement around 6:00 pm. no sign anything she said wood happen is happening at the incumbent.

police have made arrests at the university of texas in austin. the white house is under pressure now on this issue. this is them answering questions about it a moment ago, karine jean-pierre. watch. >> i will not come it on leadership at colleges and university with their decisions that's for them to decide. americans have the right to peacefully protest and we will continue to call out any type of hateful rhetoric and the type of potential hateful violence here it has no place in america. anti-semitism we will call out it is abhorrent. >> martha: that was moments ago as president biden and a brand-new pole is at a record low. approval rating 38% which is lower than former president trump and george h. w. bush in many of their first terms. both were one term president's after their election and so far it's the case for president

trump of course he is running again in hopes to be president and 2024. we bring in karl rove fox news contributor and ron williams fox news senior political analyst. good to have both of you with us today. so that's a trump up six points in that gallup poll. ron why do you thank the former president is widening his lead in the polls right now? >> it depends on the pole martha. i think in the clear politics average of reason polls he is up by one point. you see polls that just vary. i sea right now you have them tied. the most recent one today from marmot has trump up by one. so, you know, all that really is indications we are about to face a very close race in november. but i would point back to what

you been so accurately covering in terms of the disruption on the college campuses erected this month in april. you have a very difficult situation where it looks like a stalemate in between russia and ukraine and the ugly advance taking place between israel and the palestinians. at thank a lot of people are just upset and pointing at the man behind the big desk and saying there is a lot of chaos in trouble in the world. >> and what about the approval number 38% which isn't lower than any president in history at this stage of his presidency. a quick thought on that before we get carl. >> again i think if it's a referendum and that's not what were going to have been november, we will have a choice, but if it's a referendum then everyone is saying there's a lot going on i don't like. than if you just come home there are a lot of domestic issues so i think again though when people start to have a clear understanding, to you what to go back to trump or do you want

instead to look at joe biden make a choice about joe biden, that is a different perspective to look through as we consider approval or disapproval. >> martha: you know, you look back on 1968 and there are some parallels. one of which is the dmc convention we'll be in chicago. there were in norma's vietnam protests that happened it became very disruptive and violent in some cases. richard nixon was running at the time and pushed for law and order. he ended up winning the election. what parallels do you see? >> i'd be worried if i was in charge of commit -- charge of medications at the national committee for the reason you pointed out. 10,000 or more people in grant park demonstrating against the democratic national convention and 68 attempting to shut down the convention. chicago is within easing striking distance of minneapolis and dearborn talk to a very

large american centres. very close to college campuses in the midwest and i wouldn't be surprised to see thousands if not over ten or 20,000 demonstrators at grant park in august protesting the protest -- president's stance on the middle east. and, you know, and appreciate my friend ron williams saying it's one to be different by the time we get to november because it's no longer going to be at a referendum on the comment of the president of the united states in his office. but that's whistling past the graveyard. absolutely it's going to be an issue this fall because the american people who concluded he is too old and on the verge of concluding he is not up to the job today, let alone the next from four years to. >> martha: carly's just heard from karine jean-pierre they will make a comment who really on the university situations or the leadership at these universities. but the senator john federman was willing to comment on it this weekend and here's what he had to say. >> of course its a great american value to protest but i don't believe living in a pop-up

tent for hamas is really helpful. i can't and that war, joe biden canned and that war. amounts could end it right now. >> what do you think republican candidates should say about this as they talk to voters? >> it would be good to start off by saying what the senator said which is defending hamas' is not in concurrence with american values and interests. hamas is a terrorist organization that wants to bring about the violent extension of the state of israel. it deliberately attempt to cool people because of their faith. they want to kill jews and until we have a president who is going to stand up and say here until the protests, you can express here feelings peacefully, but standing up alongside a terrorist organization that took children and innocence and killed them october 7th and slaughter them after raping them, many of the women, is not in keeping with our american values. we want to hear that from the

president of the united states. god bless governor abbott of texas and the chairman of the board who said you've got a right to peacefully protest but you don't have a right to obstruct the activity in the university of texas particularly in the closing days of the semester. willing to stand and allow onto the campus the state police and remove people standing alongside hamas. god bless them for doing that. >> martha: thief got to go but i want to live with this picture, george washington university in washington dc and this is a flag draped over the back of george washington. the palestinian flag over our nation's first back the father of our country. what goes through your heart and mind when you see that here in america? >> you know, look at thank the idea that anybody would stand with hamas is just diabolical to me. i think those are the worst

people for all the reasons we've explored. but i also respect the idea that young people who see there are lots of palestinians dying the face of the strong is really military. not only the palestinian civilians but sometimes humanitarian workers, that's why these protesters are spreading. it's not wide these kids are so dumb or stupid, it's easy to demean these young people, but you have to understand they have a real reason and they think they are standing up for the people who are being crushed. and i thank the problem here politically, speaking to karel and team roth are, is that the democratic base is fractured in response to biden's strong support for israel and concern he is not sufficiently empathetic for the kind of suffering the palestinians are going through. >> martha: he's been scolding israel left and right sort of on one hand and the other with

israel. >> he said military aid. >> martha: held down the palestinian people more than anyone over all these years. >> he is so -- setting military aid and jets, the united states continues to be a strong i think unequivocal supporter of israel. >> martha: government thank you. run williams and karl rove reduce you both. the vary angst filled afternoon on this monday as we watch what's going on. former secretary of state mike pompeo newsom are owing for a potential big role in the second trumpet ministration, also former cia director will respond to the reality of statements like this on u.s. soil. >> hamas take the hostages. well done, viv. you got the presents, the balloons and the raptor cake. now, how about something to put a smile on your face? aspen dental provides complete, affordable care with dentists and labs in one place plus free exams and x-rays

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e alright breaking news this afternoon on campuses across the country here's a look at columbia university on the left-hand side -- right-hand

side excuse me they were told to clear out at 2:00. the president said if you don't clear out you will be suspended. but no such action. maybe something around 6:00. a different story in austin texas at the university of texas there were police have been arrested the protesters for breaking the rules of campus protest. so they are carrying this out is slightly different way. and will we will talk to the former secretary of state mike pompeo but first we will check back in with alexis mcadams live at libya with the latest on what's happening there. hello alexis. >> reporter: hayes martha. 3:41 pm and counting. ethic the question is who is in charge here at the university? is at the president of the university or protesters? we'll show you as people continue to walk by calling for a cease-fire saying they won't break down their tents because they want their demands met first. watch. >> where we are for amnesty they give us more discipline.

earlier this morning university delegates appeared at the entrance of our entrapment with disciplinary notices. >> so that was one of the students talking a short time ago. they have daily press conferences where they look kind of address the group here in front of encampment thing they're going to be threatened so they will basically double down. there are hundreds of people though walking around this campus so that's been the majority of the action. you see them walking here and their faces kind of covert saying they want the university to give them what they want. they don't really care about the nypd standing outside because they say they aren't going anywhere martha. >> martha: alexis, thank you very much. we will keep an eye on all these protests around the country as israel works to secure a cease-fire agreement with hamas to release some of the hostages. several of them are american hostages whose families want them home obviously at this point. hamas said they have serious

questions about the deal. secretary of state antony blinken said these deals have been vary generous and have been turned down by hamas. he said this deal is the best deal they will get. >> hamas as before a proposal that is extraordinarily generous i'm hopeful still make the right decision. >> martha: as a said eight citizens from the united states are among those being held and the tunnels under gaza. five of them are believed to be still alive including a 63-year-old keith siegel and a 23-year-old hirsch poland both seen and propaganda videos over the weekend. the first proof of life we have seen of either of them. obviously met with a measure of relief from their families but also a heightened anxiety and hope for their loved ones to come home. and moments former secretary of state mike bumper -- pub failed

the first gillian turner. hello jillian. >> hi martha. the bed in the is now condemning the word. the state department announced five idf units have committed what they call gross human rights violations and bylaw this means u.s. funding to those units are now up in the air. listen. >> we found five israeli units responsible for individual incidents of gross violations of human rights. all of these are incidents much before october 7th and none took place in goes a. four of these units have effectively remediated these violations, which is what we expect partners to do. >> reporter: button the ministration made the decision in recent days and it's been met so far with intense pushback behind the scenes from israel. it's also likely to increase anti- u.s. and anti- israel sentiment around the world

already at historical highs. the next step according to u.s. statute is funding cuts but state department today refused to share any details when pressed about it by reporters. i'm not going to get into the specifics of this incident appear. it's an ongoing process so i'm not going to get more stripped of are specific on the relevant details. >> reporter: the so-called leahy law refers to two u.s. statutes that prohibit the government from funding foreign militaries when it's believed they committed gross human rights violations. the news of course comes as blank in himself is in saudi arabia discussing a potential cease-fire in gaza with the crown prince. just days ago now still holding hostages and as you mention a mom to go pack taken back seventh hamas released more videos of people in their captivity including one dual is really american citizen who appeared to be not in great

shape. this of course as antony blinken insists is advocating for the release of these hostages as soon as possible. the ball appears to be an hamas' court right now. martha. >> martha: jillian turner thank you jillian. let's bring in mike pompeo former secretary of state and cia director pack fox news contributor. secretary good to have you with us. can you explain you've got antony blinken end trying to work out a new alliance between saudi arabia and israel that you also worked on when you are in the trump administration on the one hand than you have the state department standing at the podium saying we are going to potentially recent aid to israel because of human rights violations that happened before october 7th. can you explain that strategy to meekly. >> sadly no, you have two ask sonos to get a decent explanation. what i can tell you is it demonstrates the absolute moral confusion inside the biden

administration. they have refused to have the moral clarity to understand israel is fighting to defend its own nation and iran and hamas are terrorizing the citizens not only of gas a israel but of the united states and the world. and they get it wrong. member the beginning of the ministration the first thing they did was sanctioning to take away funding to israel because of something that happened predating october 7th. the united states can't understand the difference between the good guys in this fight, the people fighting for freedom, frankly to make life better for people in gaza itself and the bad guys, the iranians and hamas terrorists holding not only the israelis but americans hostage today then you get this kind of crazy model policy that's absolutely on expandable. >> martha: okay. that's the way it looked to me. i'm trying to figure out what's going on here because listen to antony blinken who i think on his seventh trip to the middle east since october 7th and he

is trying to put together a deal between saudi arabia and israel while back at home they are condemning israel saying their human rights violators. this is what antony blinken had to say. watch. >> i thank the single biggest most effective rebuke to both iran and hamas would be israel having no more relations with every country in this region. >> martha: i'd imagine you would agree with that? >> that i agree with and the way to do that is to not put pressure on the israelis and the idf. not to restrain them from defending their homeland. precisely they want to build to fin themselves. when you have moral clarity at the confusion you're expressing is what the world we'll see. i pray will help them get to where they need to be to keep himself secure and build out and build on the abraham accords and get moved peaceful and

prosperous middle east. you canted by creating space where hamas watches what taking -- what's taken place and america and our state department in washington is saying america is infused and is time to threaten a. >> and right output -- after october 7th there were some celebrities cheering on the paragliders that landed in the music festival in the beginning of that horrific assault and killing. and you don't hear a lot of specificity about hamas' role in what they've done to gaza. and we don't hear that from the president either it seems like that would be a fairly easy line of understanding to press on what the u.s. policy is. >> martha that's exactly right and what i alluded to at the beginning of my comments. the terrorists in gaza are hamas. the folks responsible for

everything that happened inside that plays since 2006. the devastation, the famine, the people who live there and gazans who lived in that strip of land is a direct result of not what israel did, these are the people who have oppressed the gazans and when the war came when the atrocities of october seventh took place they began to put these photos into harms way every day. they've used those civilians to try to get leverage against israel and the u.s. and we can't let them do that. the problem here is iran and the terrorists they funded their hamas and if we don't recognize that in the post costs on them it will be dangerous not only for the people of gaza and the citizens who've suffered so much but the people of israel and wider coal therapist states as well. >> martha: i also want to ask you about what would you say to those who say there is no more occupation by israel but the blockades are essentially an occupation because you can't get in or out through the main entrances to gaza.

>> absolute nonsense, there have been openings and gates getting concrete can food supplies electricity all in all assisted by israel. they load folks to trouble back-and-forth between gaza that's just pure nonsense martha. >> martha: is the different topic before we go hugh hewitt when asked about who would be in a trump cabinet if the former president is reelected. watch. >> is one of them doesn't get name for vpi think they ought to go to defence other cotton or pompeo. >> martha: you're thoughts on your name being proposed for either vice president or secretary of defence. are these roles you want? >> martha whenever i've been asked to serve in that the acutely good difference i've said yes. if president trump were to ask me we have been talked about a adult that we will but if he reaches out to me and said i think i can help i would be honoured to accept and do my best to serve the same way i tried to do as director and secretary of state. >> martha: we will sea work

those. thank you so much former secretary mike pompeo current fox news contributor good to have you here. thank you, sir. so hugh hewitt in a moment joining us but first we want to go live to the white house where peter tousey has just come out of the briefing that's happened this afternoon. peter what can you tells? >> reporter: we can tell you white house officials are saying president biden knows about what's going on but they can speak to exactly much information is consuming or whether or not he is watching it on tv. but they say his focus is on try to work out a cease-fire deal to release remaining hostages being held in gaza. that's consuming more of his time and anything going on on a college campus. to thanks that are interesting, officials won't say whether or not they support police, the use of police force to clear out these encampments. they are saying that's up to the individual colleges and universities. and they are saying now that as long as protests and made

peaceful or remain peaceful that it's okay to protest at something like a commencement ceremony, of course it would have to be a commencement not cancelled or moved, martha. >> martha: p. there -- peter i would ask you quickly if so when asked a question of karine jean-pierre about an effort to push her out of that press secretary position. >> know it did not come up and almost an hour every briefing i would point out somehow she did not see me at the front row with my hand raised. that old-time. >> martha: keep raising you're hand that's all we keep coming back. thank you peter joining us from the white house this afternoon. with that we bring in hugh hewitt nationally syndicated radio cohost always good to have you. >> good to sea you. >> martha: it's interesting i touched on this but the calls for karine jean-pierre today she was addressing what the president things about these protests and she went back to a number of prepackaged comments

about back we certainly won't say anything about leadership on campuses, should they? >> she is so bad at this job martha. how hard is it to say hamas is a terrorist organization designated as such officially by the u.s. and we condemn everyone who stands with them. they have a right to do so at a given template sermon appear she can't get up -- that out and she can't say the obvious thing. oral clarity is a requirement if we're going to be in front of the national press corps. i'm not surprised we've got to her because she would've asked opponent question and she is not good at this job. i thank the white house has moved out all the time better off joe biden's chances we'll be the don't see them improving much. i just have to say this is managed to offend everybody with the stance on israel. he offended supporters of palestinians and offended the israelis khaki offended jewish people in the u.s. and he is offended people like me who are

not jewish but support israel. it is incoherent. i don't know if it's because it is intentionally incoherent but as numbers reflect that his policy 100% is been on every day. >> martha: so we're seeing some of that perhaps reflected in these new poles. we talked about them a bit with ron williams and karl rove but what is you're take because these are new numbers that show the current president and the the weekends -- weakest position of any modern president really at the stage of the presidency. >> it is shocking. i don't know how he gets out of this tailspin martha. you're history is right james cargill is now marked-- and the people upset with the present all of the clip you had. but the fact is if you are mocking the people that want to vote for you he will succeed in persuading them to come back. there we'll be a nightmare in chicago. i thank a blow november unless they switch out the president. it's impossible to miss this guy. danaus are running it with aids

as he walks to the helicopter because his show polis oprah knows. and i feel bad for the guy but the u.s. is the leader of the west and we can't be the leader of the west if we don't have a leader who can lead. >> martha: and for those who missed that let's play it because it makes clear is you just mentioned there are democrats who are so furious about the state of what's going on right now and the youth vote that's drifting down this avenue of supporting the pro- palestinian cause and some cases the pro- hamas cause and, you know, claiming the current president doesn't adjust with the care about. here it is for those who missed it. >> and you tell those young people if you don't get involved right now, in this election, there going to be involved in your life for the rest of your life. that's alright, you know, 26 rolled you don't feel like the election is important to me,

they're not addressing the issues that i care about. >> really mocking them and, you know, over the weekend growing battle between the new york times and president biden as will. what do you think these entities and this individual, what you can they're pushing for exactly? what do they want? >> pushing joe biden at the door. i don't james cargill stance by the present but the thinking new york times democratically path and he does again a lot of people can evoke crown and about der but anyone who cares about israel and especially jewish american -- >> martha: oh boy were seeing a live shot in austin with her taking students down and vary forceful manner right now. there clearly moving in these police officers and hugh, you know, remember, of course, it seems that we saw in -- during the vietnam war and the scenes are going to

remind a lot of americans. what is that take away from the country as he watched this hugh? >> a review of the coming attraction in chicago in august. this is going to get -- everywhere. usc got every word allowed this to get out of her no doubt to -- >> martha: you know, is interesting to go back to that period at hugh because lyndon johnson dropped out i believe in march, writes. >> -- >> martha: you know, fairly late in the game coming out the end of april and you say you think that's what the new york times wants to happen here. to what happened back then is that lyndon johnson shocked the nation and said "i'm not going to accept the nomination of my party," and hubert humphrey stepped in and then you had that tumultuous scene in chicago. >> what happened then was that hubert humphrey went against kennedy and, of course, kennedy was

assassinated and eugene mccarthy and then they had the 1958 convention. what i can see happening here a long shot but the only way out of this for democrat is for president biden is to wait until the end of the convention that noc is throwing -- withdrawing and -- because they don't want to not make the vice president because if there's one politician even less popular than joe biden in the united states is kamala harris. >> martha: fascinating parallels in your rates that bring us context of august. really great happy with us, thank you very much for joining us today. hugh hewitt. were watching students get arrested at the university of texas at austin university of texas at austin got very, very borderline -- will be watching this breaking use throughout the afternoon. think you were telling us on "the story," continuing fox news breaking coverage of these the module stands on u.s. campuses back i'll see you back here tomorrow at 3:00. >> ♪ ♪ >> everyone: [chanting